TDS Time Machine | Women's History Month

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Daily Show: Ears Edition

Episode: TDS Time Machine | Women's History Month

Date: March 29, 2026
Main Host: Desi Lydic (with appearances by Trevor Noah, Marlon, Annie Leibovitz, and child participants)
Guest: Annie Leibovitz

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Episode Overview

This special Women's History Month episode spotlights women's overlooked stories, their impact across history, and ongoing challenges they face. With The Daily Show’s trademark blend of satire and sincerity, Desi Lydic leads comedic news segments and a thoughtful interview with iconic photographer Annie Leibovitz, celebrating pioneering women—good and "bad"—in history, business, and culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Women's Untold and “Bad Girl” History

• Overlooked Female Villains:
  Desi Lydic highlights how women's darker deeds are often omitted from history, using humor to challenge the "good girl" narrative.

  • Peggy Shippen Arnold persuaded Benedict Arnold to betray America ([01:47]).

  • Queen Olympias: Had family assassinated so her son, Alexander the Great, could rule ([02:40]).

  • Catherine Kelly: Machine Gun Kelly's wife and criminal partner ([03:45]).

  • Zheng Yi Sao: The most successful pirate, outwitting the Chinese navy ([04:47]).

  • Quote:

    • “The couple that betrays together, stays together. And there is nothing hotter than treason sex. Trust me.” (Desi Lydic, [02:03])
    • “Even when it comes to bad things, we tend to erase the contributions of women from history.” (Trevor Noah, [04:07])
    • “Women’s History Month isn’t just about breaking the glass ceiling, it’s also about throwing someone through it and getting away with it.” (Desi Lydic, [05:49])

2. Challenges for Women in the Workplace (The Glass Cliff & More)

• Corporate Struggles:

  • Women remain underrepresented in CEO roles (38 S&P 500 CEOs are women), are more frequently fired (45% more likely), and often promoted during crises (“glass cliff”) ([07:00]).

  • Women negotiating for better positions receive negative feedback ("bossy"), while men get "fatherhood bonuses."

  • The persistent office coldness joke highlights everyday microaggressions.

  • Quote:

    • “Women who negotiate are 67% more likely... to receive feedback that their personal style is intimidating, too aggressive or bossy.” (Desi Lydic, [07:38])
    • “It’s no wonder women have to work harder. It’s the only thing that will keep us warm.” (Desi Lydic, [08:09])

3. Mentoring the Next Generation (Child Panel Segment)

• Satirical ‘Girl Boss’ Lessons:

  • Desi leads a playful workshop teaching little girls about corporate ambition, negotiation, and the "mommy tax" ([08:34]–[12:13]). The segment pokes fun at corporate feminism while highlighting real barriers.

  • Memorable Moments:

    • “What is the key takeaway is that we want to beat the boys. Yeah. But we want to fill our pockets with money.” (Desi Lydic, [09:21])
    • Explanation of the “mommy tax” and attempted negotiation by a child participant ([11:04–11:11]).
    • Child only recognizes notorious women: “You only know the names of the women who have done illegal things.” (Desi Lydic, [11:36])

4. Women Behind “Manly” Inventions

• Important Inventions:

  • Beer: Invented by Mesopotamian women, historically tied to female labor ([12:41]).

  • Kung Fu: The style used by Bruce Lee originated with Ng Moy, a 1700s nun ([13:31]).

  • Nuclear Fission: Discovered by Lise Meitner, foundational to nuclear weapons ([14:25]).

  • Quotes:

    • “Seven thousand years ago, beer was considered a gift from a goddess, and only women were entrusted with making it.” (Desi Lydic, [13:01])
    • “Bruce Lee…got his whole style…from a woman...Ng Moy developed her method after teaching a female student how to fight off a creepy guy. …Back then, you had to literally swipe left.” (Desi Lydic, [13:31])

5. Women in Science, Tech, and Play (Barbie Segment)

• Representation in STEM:

  • Mattel’s new Barbie dolls model female STEM leaders for International Women’s Day ([16:20]–[20:13]).

  • Desi satirizes the high bar these dolls set, calling for “mediocre Barbie” to normalize not being extraordinary.

    • “I want a doll that makes me feel bad about my body, not my mind.” (Desi Lydic, [18:19])

  • Aspirational Standards:

    • “Not every Barbie has to be a girl boss…let’s have Barbies who are just trying to make it through the day.” (Desi Lydic, [18:54])

6. Sexism in Auto Industry (Crash Test Dummies)

• Safety Issues:

  • Women are more likely to be injured in car crashes because dummies were modeled on male bodies ([20:42]).

  • Swedish engineers created a female crash test dummy considering women’s body physics.

  • Quote:

    • “The cars are designed to be safe for crash test dummies. And the dummies are designed to represent men's bodies.” (Desi Lydic, [21:31])
    • “Congrats on designing a mannequin that men won’t dream about having sex with.” (Desi Lydic, [22:27])

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Interview Segment: Annie Leibovitz on "Women"

[23:29–40:17]

Annie Leibovitz’s Iconic Work

• Demi Moore’s Pregnant Vanity Fair Cover:

  • Desi reflects on the cultural impact of this photo, which was among the first to show a pregnant woman’s body as beautiful and powerful ([24:40–26:27]).

    • “At that time, I had never seen pregnant women being shown like that…it’s such a beautiful photo.” (Desi Lydic, [24:40])

  • Annie recalls humble beginnings and the collaborative process:

    • “We really didn’t know what we were doing…Susan Sontag said, ‘This is really important.’” (Leibovitz, [25:14])

• On Subject Research & Approach:

  • Annie stresses researching subjects, understanding their work and aspirations, and aiming to capture their essence:
    • “I always think I’m photographing…more, not so much what someone looks like, but what they do and who they are.” (Leibovitz, [27:55])
    • “They [subjects] have to come to terms with themselves and how they imagine they want to be seen.” (Leibovitz, [28:50])

• Career as a Woman in Photography:

  • Early on, being underestimated was an advantage: “No one really took me seriously…you could kind of wander around.” (Leibovitz, [30:58])
  • Transition from reportage to more prominent work meant increased scrutiny and less invisibility.

• New Book: "Women" (2026 Edition)

  • Motivated by Hillary Clinton to revisit the 1999 “Women” collection ([31:50]).

  • Gloria Steinem and Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie contributed essays.

  • Showgirl series was pivotal in convincing Leibovitz and Sontag to focus on women, showing the contrast and authenticity of their subjects ([33:05]).

    • “I was spellbound…the women came in, out of costume and unrecognizable from their costumes. I’m still trying to sort it out, but it’s mesmerizing to me.” (Leibovitz, [34:49])

  • Photographing Michelle Obama:

    • Photo symbolizes liberation and empowerment, showing Obama’s journey to rediscovery post-First Lady role ([36:09]).

  • Favorite Portrait: Her Mother

    • The photograph resists convention, showing her mother’s intelligence and presence rather than her usual bubbly persona ([37:09]).
    • “There’s no camera there. And I think that’s really what you want to achieve in a portrait.” (Leibovitz, [38:13])

  • Intergenerational Progress:

    • Today's context for women’s stories is more confident than 25 years ago.
    • Gloria Steinem's essay in the book assures: “We’re not going backwards.” ([40:01])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "It’s not just about breaking the glass ceiling, it’s about throwing someone through it and getting away with it." (Desi Lydic, [05:49])
• “You only know the names of the women who have done illegal things.” (Desi Lydic, [11:36])
• "The dream of every woman: to be as successful as an average white man." (Desi Lydic, [20:13])
• “I love photography more than anything in the world.” (Annie Leibovitz, [29:53])
• “I wish I put it more in the front of the book, the bios…are little haikus on these women in the new book. An astounding group of women…a difference between—we couldn’t have done this book 25 years ago.” (Leibovitz, [38:59])
• “We are really, you know, in this quiet, roaring confidence, as Chimamanda says. I just think we’re an incredible set of people right now, as women.” (Leibovitz, [39:31])

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|--------------------------------------------| | 01:27 | Women’s (Bad) History: Peggy Shippen | | 02:40 | Alexander the Great’s mom (Queen Olympias) | | 03:45 | Catherine Kelly: Female Gangster | | 04:47 | Zheng Yi Sao, Pirate Queen | | 07:00 | The “Glass Cliff”, motherhood penalty | | 08:34 | Child Workshop – Mentoring Segment | | 12:13 | Beer & Kung Fu were invented by women | | 16:20 | Barbie’s STEM role models | | 20:42 | Crash Test Dummies and Car Safety | | 23:29 | Annie Leibovitz Interview Begins | | 24:40 | Demi Moore Vanity Fair Shoot | | 30:58 | Leibovitz on being a Woman in Photography | | 33:05 | Showgirl Photos: Authenticity | | 36:09 | Photographing Michelle Obama | | 37:09 | Photographing her mother, favorite photo | | 38:59 | The importance of “Women” book’s bios | | 40:01 | Gloria Steinem’s optimism |

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Summary Flow & Usefulness

This episode artfully balances satire and substance, spotlighting women whose stories are often overshadowed or ignored. From criminal masterminds to glass cliff CEOs, beer-brewing Mesopotamians to the modern crash test dummy, the show weaves together sharp humor, sharp critique, and celebration of women’s power and nuance.

The Annie Leibovitz interview captures the spirit and depth of her new collection, demonstrating the evolution of women’s visibility, representation, and self-determination in both art and the wider world.

Recommended for: Anyone seeking smart, funny, and inspiring takes on women’s impact—historically and today—and those interested in the intersection of pop culture, photography, and feminism.

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Transcript

[Marlon]

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[Desi Lydic]

It's time.

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[Trevor Noah]

You're listening to Comedy Central. As you should. March is Women's History Month. The month.

[Desi Lydic]

That's right.

[Trevor Noah]

The month when all historic female heroes drink for free. For more on this, we're joined by our senior gender issues correspondent, Desi Lydic. Everybody, What does Women's History Month mean to you?

[Desi Lydic]

Well, Trevor, during this month, I like to celebrate the stories of impressive women that have been overlooked. It's not his story. It's. Took me forever to come up with that.

[Trevor Noah]

You know, Desi, I. I honestly have learned so much already this month about women who have done great things in history.

[Desi Lydic]

Okay, yeah, but you see, everyone pays attention to the women who did great things, but no one speaks about women who did bad things. For example, everyone's heard of Benedict Arnold, right? He was the general who betrayed America during the revolution. The greatest treason in our history up until Tristan Thompson. But you probably haven't heard of Benedict's wife, Peggy Shippen Arnold. Now, she was actually the one who encouraged him to turn on America and help plan his treason with British officials. You know, it's like they say, the couple that betrays together stays together. And there is nothing hotter than treason sex. Trust me,

[Trevor Noah]

I don't even know what that means. But that is really fascinating, Desi. I had no idea about the role that she played.

[Desi Lydic]

No, of course you didn't. You're a man. I didn't know either. I saw it on a Snapple cap at lunch today.

[Trevor Noah]

That's a weird Snapple cap.

[Desi Lydic]

Yeah. Here's another one. We all know who Alexander the Great was. The ruthless king, bloodthirsty conqueror, sideburns aficionado. But he only got to do all of that because of a woman. His mom, Queen Olympias. She wanted her son to be king so bad, she had her husband and his other wife assassinated. She still so her child could have a better life. Like a Macedonian Aunt Becky. You know, actually, Olympias inspired me to break into my son's school and destroy the other kids science projects. Sorry someone trashed your volcano, Timmy, but I, too, am raising a king.

[Trevor Noah]

Desi, you. You can't break into a school and vandalize children's homework.

[Desi Lydic]

Oh, wow. Trevor, you're gonna tell a woman what she can and cannot do with.

[Trevor Noah]

Wait, no, no, no, no. What you did was a crime.

[Desi Lydic]

Well, you know. You know what else used to be a crime? Women voting.

[Trevor Noah]

Huh?

[Desi Lydic]

Right, ladies?

[Child Participant]

Yeah,

[Desi Lydic]

but you know what? I'm glad you brought up crime, because women can do that, too. People always talk about Machine Gun Kelly, One of the most notorious gangsters during Prohibition, but nobody's ever heard of his wife, Catherine Kelly. She helped him sk. She helped plan his kidnappings. She even gave him the gun he was named after. You know, before her, everyone called him Finger Guns Kelly.

[Trevor Noah]

Wow, this is really fascinating. You're opening my eyes. Like, even when it comes to bad things, we tend to erase the contributions of women from history.

[Desi Lydic]

Yeah, and it's still happening today. Just look at Facebook. Fake news, scandals, helping Russia spread propaganda. They even sold all her dick pics to Steve Bannon. And every time something goes wrong, people blame Mark Zuckerberg. But there's something. COO Sheryl Sandberg deserves just as much credit. Everyone's dragging his name through the mud. I am so sick of people refusing to say something bad about women on the Internet.

[Trevor Noah]

Desi, it almost sounds like you admire these bad women.

[Desi Lydic]

I admire all women. But there is one woman I admire above all. She is my number one evil heroine. I mean, I guess heroin's the number one evil heroine, but this lady comes close. Trevor, when you think of pirates, you think of Blackbeard, Captain Kidd, or whoever's decaptain now. But the most successful pirate of all time was actually a woman. Zheng Yi Sao. In the 1800s, she had 80,000 sailors, 1500 ships, and took more pirate fortune than Johnny Depp's lawyers. But get this. When the Chinese navy finally caught her, she talked her way out of jail, got amnesty, and then opened a boom. She went from being a criminal tyrant to a legal casino owner, a move historians call the reverse Donald Trump. So, remember, everyone Women's History Month isn't just about breaking the glass ceiling, it's also about throwing someone through it and getting away with it.

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[Desi Lydic]

Last few decades, women have made big strides in the workplace. We're no longer getting harassed while wearing big ugly shoulder pads. It's 2023. Now we're getting harassed while wearing super cool big shoulder pads. Needless to say, corporate women still face challenges when it comes to the CEOs of the largest companies. Women are still vastly underrepresented. There are currently 38 female CEOs at the S&P 500 and women CEOs are 45% more likely to be fired and than their male counterparts. There's also evidence that women who are appointed to the top job aren't necessarily set up for success. High level women are often promoted during a time of crisis. It's a phenomenon called the glass cliff. Women who negotiate are 67% more likely than women who don't to receive feedback that their personal style is intimidating, too aggressive or bossy. When women have a child, their earnings decline for each child by 4%.

[Marlon]

Wow.

[Desi Lydic]

Whereas men there's a fatherhood bonus and they actually earn more when they have children. It's called a motherhood penalty. That's right. It's. Yeah, it's really hard to be a woman in the corporate world. And they didn't even mention the fact that the office is always so freaking cold. It's no wonder women have to work harder. It's the only thing that will keep us warm. With all the challenges women are facing in the workplace, I thought it was important to offer some mentorship to the next generation of female leaders. Take a look. Hi, everybody.

[Annie Leibovitz]

Hello.

[Desi Lydic]

Hi, my name is Desi. And today I'm gonna tell you how to climb your way to the top of the corporate ladder, just like the boys. And sometimes it means playing dirty and sometimes it's gonna be an uphill battle. Alright, look to the person to your right. Now look at the person to your left. Okay. We're still learning rights and lefts. By the end of today, only one of you will remain. Evelyn.

[Child Participant]

Yes, we don't want to be boys, but we should be like the boys. Not in a way that we're like the boys, but we're going to be like empowered women. Then we're going to get dreams accomplished. Then we're going to get money. Then we going to put in our bank account and get more money.

[Desi Lydic]

Yeah. Because you worked for it. And I think what did she. What is the key takeaway is that we want to beat the boys. Yeah. But we want to fill our pockets with money. Okay. Who here knows what a CEO is?

[Child Participant]

B. No. B. Nobody knows.

[Desi Lydic]

B. You're up. You want to be a CEO?

[Child Participant]

Um.

[Desi Lydic]

You sure? Do you know what a CEO is?

[Child Participant]

No.

[Desi Lydic]

Chief Executive Officer.

[Child Participant]

I have no idea what that is.

[Desi Lydic]

You're the boss. So, like, you're like. You know how a teacher is the leader of the classroom?

[Child Participant]

Oh, yeah.

[Desi Lydic]

And they're in control of everything happening in the classroom.

[Child Participant]

Oh, yeah.

[Desi Lydic]

It's just like that. Except they don't have to pay out of pocket for office supplies. So. Okay. Part of making it to the top of corporate America is knowing how to negotiate for yourself. Do you know what that means?

[Child Participant]

No. No.

[Desi Lydic]

What does it mean to negot?

[Child Participant]

Okay.

[Desi Lydic]

The most important thing about negotiating for a raise is that you're touting your accomplishments. What chores have you been doing lately? Have you been adding value to your family? Have you been, say, helping your brother tie his shoes? That's mentorship.

[Child Participant]

I don't know how to tie shoes.

[Desi Lydic]

Do you know how to slip on a pair of pumps?

[Child Participant]

Yes.

[Desi Lydic]

Then it doesn't matter. Okay. Do any of you want to be mommies?

[Child Participant]

Mommy's mommy.

[Desi Lydic]

Wonderful. That'll be $40,000 up front.

[Child Participant]

What do you mean?

[Desi Lydic]

It's called the Mommy tax.

[Child Participant]

Nobody has that kind of money. What about 9,000?

[Desi Lydic]

I like the attempt to negotiate, but no. It's a hard and fast 40 grand.

[Child Participant]

Whoa.

[Desi Lydic]

Okay, there are two types of CEOs. Has anyone here heard of Elizabeth Holmes or Anna Delvey?

[Child Participant]

Is Anna Delvey the person who is pretended to be, like, a Russian heiress or whatever?

[Desi Lydic]

Why, yes, she is. You are my prize student. Here's the lesson we learned. You only know the names of the women who have done illegal things. Okay, Belle, congratulations. You are now our new CEO. You now get to clean up the mess that the previous CEO made.

[Child Participant]

What the. You said being a CEO is good.

[Desi Lydic]

Yes, it is, but it's not always fair.

[Child Participant]

I'm keeping the bag, but I'm not cleaning that up.

[Desi Lydic]

And that is how you negotiate.

[Child Participant]

Why are you planting?

[Desi Lydic]

I know a lot of men might think women's history doesn't affect them, but it turns out women throughout history have invented some of men's favorite things. For example, Trevor, what's the number one thing that men can't live without? I'll give you a hint. It starts with a B. You whip him out during spring break. Boobs. Beer.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah, beer. No, no. Boobs is a brand of South African beer.

[Commercial Announcer]

That's.

[Desi Lydic]

Okay, well, beer is a $530 billion industry, mostly thanks to men. And who can blame them for loving beer with all those macho ads full of sexy women desperate to have sexy sex. Ooh, Grandpa, your Social Security check is so big. But it turns out Mesopotamian women were the ones who invented this man juice. Wait, Sorry. No, that doesn't sound right. This man flew it. Yeah, that's better. But it's true. Seven thousand years ago, beer was considered a gift from a goddess, and only women were entrusted with making it. Which is why I no longer pay for beer when I go out. You know, instead of signing my bar tab, I just write, you're welcome.

[Trevor Noah]

That's actually a really cool thing. I mean, not you stealing drinks, but the invention of beer.

[Desi Lydic]

Yeah, no, and that's not all. A woman helped create one of the things men think they can do when they're drunk. Kung fu. You know, society has always told us that it's meant for men. You know, and pandas. But guess what? Bruce Lee, the most famous kung fu er of all time, got his whole style of kung fu From a woman in the 1700s, a nun by the name of Ng Moy developed her method after teaching a female student how to fight off a creepy guy. You know, these days you can just swipe left, but back then, you had to literally swipe left.

[Trevor Noah]

That's.

[Child Participant]

Yeah.

[Trevor Noah]

That's so amazing. Wow. I didn't know all of these. What I love about Women's History Month. Like, I didn't know that a nun helped invent kung fu.

[Desi Lydic]

Yeah, well, I mean, it's not that crazy. Nuns are badass. Remember that nun in the 90s who took down one of Reno's biggest mobsters? And she still had time to teach her choir some Motown classics?

[Trevor Noah]

Isn't that Sister Act?

[Desi Lydic]

Yeah, it's my favorite documentary. And speaking of fighting, it was this woman, Liza Meitner, who discovered nuclear fission.

[Trevor Noah]

I'm sorry, Desi. Nuclear fission?

[Annie Leibovitz]

What is that?

[Desi Lydic]

Oh, my God. Seriously, Trevor, you don't know what nuclear fission is? I mean, everyone knows it's when you fission the nuclear. You know, whatever. The point is, her discovery of nuclear fission became the basis for all nuclear weapons. So without her, there are no nuclear bombs. And without nuclear bombs, world leaders would have no way of proving how big their dicks are. Listen, fellas, the next time you're butt chugging a PBR or start a bar fight or drop a nuke, remember all of the women who made it possible and honor them by not doing any of that dumb shit in the first place.

[Trevor Noah]

Desi linnik, everyone. My day kicks off with a refreshing Celsius energy drink, then straight to the gym, pre K pickup back home to meal prep. Time for my fire station shift. One more Celsius. Gotta keep the lights on when the three alarm hits. I'm ready. Celsius live fit. Go grab a cold, refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate [e-mail].

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[Annie Leibovitz]

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[Marlon]

today is International Women's Day, And here's how the world's top feminist organization is celebrating. Mattel is also celebrating International Women's Day with seven new role models. The new Barbie lineup was inspired by the likeness of female leaders in STEM fields from around the world. The company hopes the role models, including former YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki and UK space scientists Dr. Maggie Adrian Pocock, will inspire the next generation of girls to pursue their passions despite women being underrepresented in STEM field. This is so important. Kids learn so much from their toys they play with. You want them to have scientists dolls and CEO dolls that can scissor each other? For more on this story, we turn to Desi Lydic. Desi, how's your International Women's Day going?

[Desi Lydic]

Well, thank you for asking. It started out so, so great. This morning, the random guy who usually yells, nice ass, instead yelled, I respect your nice ass. And this is why we march. So, yeah, I was feeling pretty good. I mean, at least until I saw this Barbie story.

[Marlon]

Wait, you don't like these brand new Barbies? But they're so accomplished. They got scientists and they got a YouTube CEO.

[Desi Lydic]

Oh, yeah, equally great role models. You could be a scientist who helps humanity, or you could design a YouTube algorithm that says, hey, kids, if you like Peppa pig, you'll love QAnon.

[Marlon]

Okay, that's fair. But some of them are doctors and engineers, and one of them is a professor.

[Desi Lydic]

Yeah, I know. They're all so successful. Those Barbies.

[Annie Leibovitz]

Them them all.

[Desi Lydic]

Yeah, it's bad enough Barbie was always hotter. Now she's smarter than me too. I want a doll that makes me feel bad about my body, not my mind.

[Marlon]

So you're saying we should get rid of these Barbies?

[Desi Lydic]

Well, no. I mean, not necessarily. But why can't we also have some mediocre Barbies who don't make us feel pressured? Right. Not mediocrity. Not every Barbie has to be a girl boss. Let's have a Barbie who's a paralegal at a mid sized law firm. Or one who works the lunch shift at a. There is nothing wrong with Barbies who are just trying to make it through the day.

[Marlon]

But aren't Barbies supposed to be aspirational?

[Desi Lydic]

No, no, Marlon, they're not. Give me a Barbie who's okay with letting 5,000 emails pile up in her inbox. Okay, the Barbie who spilled coffee on her shirt but knows she can still get another day out of it if she puts a blazer on. The Barbie who spends her Friday nights in bed binge watching Vanderpump Rules Dunkin Carrot sticks into a jar of peanut butter and letting her kids drive themselves to taekwondo for the love of God, stop judging me. Marlon.

[Marlon]

I wasn't. But those do feel very specific.

[Desi Lydic]

You're specific. My point is, they don't all have to be rock stars. You think every Ken is a Nobel Prize winning aeronautical engineer?

[Child Participant]

No.

[Desi Lydic]

He's just a man with a car and a pubic mound. And we all accept him. That's what I want. The dream of every woman to be as successful as an average white man.

[Marlon]

That doesn't sound like women achieving their dreams.

[Desi Lydic]

I'm sorry, are you mansplaining my dreams to me on International Women's Day?

[Trevor Noah]

No.

[Marlon]

What? No, I wouldn't dare.

[Desi Lydic]

No. It kind of sad. I feel like you wanted to.

[Marlon]

I swear I was not.

[Desi Lydic]

I think.

[Marlon]

Desi Linek, please, everybody.

[Desi Lydic]

Recent studies show that women are more likely to be hurt in car crashes. And Jordan, the reason is obvious.

[Marlon]

Women are bad drivers. Say what you said. It's what you said.

[Desi Lydic]

It's sexism, sexism, Sexism. And now the auto industry is finally starting to do something about it.

[Medical Advertiser]

When it comes to designing crash test

[Marlon]

dummies, researchers say it's time to get smarter.

[Annie Leibovitz]

This is the average female.

[Marlon]

Engineers in Sweden have developed a dummy

[Medical Advertiser]

based on a woman's body.

[Annie Leibovitz]

More narrower shoulder area and a wider hip area.

[Desi Lydic]

It's also lighter and has a lower center of gravity.

[Medical Advertiser]

All things experts say are important to consider when testing collisions at high speeds.

[Desi Lydic]

Wow. What a surprise. The cars are designed to be safe for crash test dummies. And the dummies are designed to represent men's bodies. Although, to be fair, it's not just the dummies. The study also revealed that right before a crash, men tense up while women usually whisper, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. I will say I'm glad they're finally making changes to the dummies. But if we were worried about accuracy. Let's go all the way with this. Why not fill the car with half eaten takeout containers and a hockey stick that was left in the backseat for the last three months, no matter how many times you told them to bring it in the house. Let's see what happens when that hits a wall at 60 miles an hour. Sorry, Jordan. It's been a tough week.

[Marlon]

Yeah, no worries. Thanks again for driving me to hockey practice.

[Desi Lydic]

Yeah, no problem. So, thanks to the scientists and congrats on designing a mannequin that men won't dream about having sex with.

[Marlon]

Right, right, right. Totally. Totally. Totally. Definitely. So spot on.

[Desi Lydic]

Spot on. Spot on.

[Marlon]

Spot on. Can we move on, please?

[Annie Leibovitz]

Yeah.

[Marlon]

Great.

[Annie Leibovitz]

Yeah.

[Desi Lydic]

This episode is brought to you By Subaru. Go further in a long range Subaru Hybrid with up to 597 miles per tank in the Cross Hybrid and up to 581 miles per tank in the Forester Hybrid. Subaru love goes the extra mile. Visit subaru.com hybrid to learn more. Range based on EPA estimated combined fuel economy in a full tank of fuel. Actual mileage and range may vary.

[Trevor Noah]

Protein is now at Starbucks and it's never tasted so good. You can add protein cold foam to your favorite drink or try one of our new protein lattes or Matcha. Try it today at Starbucks.

[Desi Lydic]

My guest tonight is a legendary photographer whose powerful new collection of career spanning work is called Women. Please welcome Annie Leibovitz.

[Annie Leibovitz]

I don't know how I got talked into this.

[Trevor Noah]

Are you kidding me?

[Desi Lydic]

How did we talk you into this?

[Annie Leibovitz]

No, I still am trying to figure that out.

[Desi Lydic]

This is. Yeah, well, you'll be asking yourself for the rest of this interview.

[Annie Leibovitz]

Okay, well, just pick me up wherever I start to, you know, oh my God, things start to fall out of the side of my mouth or something.

[Desi Lydic]

You're kidding me. You are an absolute dream. You are a legendary photographer.

[Annie Leibovitz]

Well, I love this show and you're amazing, so. And we're waiting for you to have your own show.

[Marlon]

Tell John that.

[Desi Lydic]

Oh, did you hear that? Paramount, John, Paramount. I just wanted to make sure we were rolling on that. Annie's a legend, so we do what she says. Okay?

[Annie Leibovitz]

Okay.

[Desi Lydic]

That's very kind of you to say. Your work, it was so important to me. Coming up, I remember vividly seeing the Demi Moore photograph being very pregnant and it was just the most jaw dropping, exquisite photo at that time. I had never seen pregnant women being shown like that. It was like always with a laundry basket covering their bellies as though it's a shameful secret. And there she was just standing in her beauty and power and strength.

[Annie Leibovitz]

We really didn't know what we were doing when we did it. I mean, quite honestly, in fact, I was sent out by van a fair to do a cover. And they said, well, you know, unfortunately Demi's pregnant, so you'll have to like, you know, come in tight and you know, do what you can, you know, do the best you can. And I happen to know Bruce and Debbie and his photograph them before and then some private pictures of them when she was pregnant with her first child. So at the end of our cover sitting, I said, do you want to. Let's, you know, do you want me to photograph you, you know, nude with the second baby? And she said, sure, that'd be great. And then I was looking at her and I was thinking, you know, this is kind of interesting. This could be. This could be. Maybe if you cover yourself in the right places, this could be a cover. Brought it back to New York, and it was Susan Sontag, actually, who said, this is really important. And, you know, we went to Tina Brown and we made sure Demi was comfortable with it, and we did it. And, you know, it was funny because we said, how do we talk about this? You know, what did we do? We didn't quite know what we did. And it turned out to be so important. What's interesting is Rihanna, of course.

[Desi Lydic]

Yes.

[Annie Leibovitz]

Who? I mean, you know, I don't know if we have. Pull that picture up.

[Desi Lydic]

We do. We have. I mean, good God. Come on.

[Annie Leibovitz]

I mean, you know. I mean. I mean, you know, she took it to a whole new place.

[Desi Lydic]

Oh, yes, she did. Now, just so you know, when I was pregnant, I thought that's what I looked like. Turns out I look like I was just having a severe allergic reaction for nine months. I mean, it's such a moment. It's such a beautiful photo.

[Annie Leibovitz]

No, I mean. I mean, first of all, she announced that she was pregnant with her second baby at the super bowl, and then the third one with, you know, at the Met Gala. So, I mean, the way she walks around, you know, it's so beautiful. I mean, she's so smart, such an interesting person. And I've tried to write about photographing her, but you just get sort of taken in. I mean, she's. She's really mesmerizing. She's just an amazing person.

[Desi Lydic]

And it's what you pull out of your subjects, too. You're known for doing.

[Trevor Noah]

No, no.

[Annie Leibovitz]

I feel like I'm dragged behind a car with.

[Desi Lydic]

Oh, come on.

[Annie Leibovitz]

You know, with her. She's amazing. She's so smart.

[Desi Lydic]

You're known for doing an immense amount of research on your subjects. What does that look like? Are you reading?

[Annie Leibovitz]

You've done research, too. I've noticed. You've done a very good job.

[Desi Lydic]

Well, thank you. That's very. That's very kind. But how does that. What does that look like for you when you do research? Well, yeah. Are you shadowing or.

[Annie Leibovitz]

You know, it's just. I don't understand why people don't think you don't do research. I mean, you have to. I mean, you have to know what. Who you're walking in to see and how they've been photographed before and who they are and what they Do. I mean, I love. I always think I'm photographing, you know, more. Not so much what someone looks like, but what they do and who they are.

[Desi Lydic]

You know, the thing that I find, as that's common in all of your photos, particularly in this book, which we're gonna get to, is that you're not just showcasing a woman as being beautiful. And they are. They're all beautiful. But it's like you have a way of illuminating their superpower, whatever it is that they have, whether it be strength or depth or intrigue or a sense of humor. Is that something that is planned out for you, or does that happen in the moment? Do you just have to be there to see it?

[Annie Leibovitz]

You know, it's interesting because I'm not too sure myself, you know, what it is that I'm doing. I'm pretty direct, and, you know, I stand on the shoulders of so many great portrait photographers that I have it in the back of my head how I'm seeing something. But, you know, I'm not alone. I'm like. I'm there with the other person. And it's a very psychological situation. They have to sort of come to terms with themselves and how they imagine they want to be seen. I think we. Especially as I get older, I really want us to look as best as we can, look whoever we are. I mean, it's hard to explain. I can't explain it.

[Desi Lydic]

No, you did. You did. I want to talk about your drive, because you talk about coming up as a young photographer having verve and this insatiable drive. Where does that come from? Is that because you came from a big family, one of six? Where does that come from?

[Annie Leibovitz]

I mean, I think I just. You know, it sounds very corny, but I love what I do, and I've been doing it a long time, and. And I've had incredible vehicles to ride on to work with, you know, starting with Rolling Stone magazine and then Van A Fair and then Vogue, and, you know, I just. I love what I do, and I love photography more than anything in the world. And, you know, I studied, you know, Cartierson, Robert Frank, and became interested in, you know, the world of, you know, Helmut Newton. And, I mean, it's just a great. So I. I don't know. I just. My brothers and sisters seem to have the same problem, really. We're all, you know, very, very ambitious, driven, kind of workaholics, I guess, you know, kind of.

[Desi Lydic]

Well, it's worked out.

[Annie Leibovitz]

Yeah.

[Desi Lydic]

What was it like coming up as a young photographer, being in a very Male dominated, probably often being the only

[Annie Leibovitz]

woman in a room, I wasn't really aware of it as much. I used it to my advantage because no one really took me seriously or thought that I could do anything. So you could kind of wander around. I mean, the early work was reportage and more journalistic and so you could really be somewhere and no one really paid you any attention. And I love it. And then as I got better known, I got a little harder. You know, suddenly my subject was walking up to me and starting to talk to me. And I said, no, can you just please stay on the other side of the room?

[Desi Lydic]

You know, you do your job, I'll do mine. You could wear a mustache to go undercover. Just a little disguise. I want to talk about this incredible collection. It's a two volume series that.

[Annie Leibovitz]

So I have an incredible publisher, Phaidon, that lets me kind of do kind of what I want to do, more or less, you know. And what happened was, is Hillary Clinton had come to me over a year ago and said, we want to commemorate the original women's book from 1999. And then I thought, well, that's incredible. Maybe it's out of print, let's reprint it. And so I'm going to show you. So this is too cool.

[Desi Lydic]

We have some.

[Annie Leibovitz]

It's too cool.

[Desi Lydic]

It's also. Not only will you feel strong looking through these photos, but you actually will physically get strong. It's a little.

[Annie Leibovitz]

It's really important to get these babies out of the box.

[Desi Lydic]

Yes. Build that upper body strength.

[Annie Leibovitz]

It's true, but. So we reproduced and reprinted the exact first volume, which was, you know, with Susan Sontag and, you know, by the way, it's funny, but I wasn't too sure I wanted to do a book on women. I thought it was too broad of an idea. Too big too, you know, I didn't see how we could do it. And then I went out to Las Vegas and did those photographs for the Showgirls.

[Desi Lydic]

Yes, we have those. We can put them up. Yeah, I know.

[Annie Leibovitz]

You have to rub out some. Some parts, right?

[Desi Lydic]

Oh, yes, Slight blurs.

[Annie Leibovitz]

But what was amazing is it turned me around. I went back to New York and I said to Susan, let's do the book on women, because we don't know what we look like. You know, it was a surprise. So this book, we just totally shrunk it a little bit and we reprinted it exactly the way it is. It's kind of like a. It's not really a time capsule, but it's really a moment in time. But I thought, you know, why aren't we. Why don't. I've done all this work since 1999 on women. I mean, never want to separate women from men. It's just that women's stories need to be told, and we have a lot stories of men, and it'd be nice to have. We need more stories on women, which is why. Thank you. So look who I got to. Gloria Steinem and Shimamanda.

[Desi Lydic]

Shimamanda wrote a beautiful passage.

[Annie Leibovitz]

Amazing.

[Desi Lydic]

Both of them wrote beautiful pieces. For this book, I just want to reference in the Showgirl series what was so spectacular about that? When you look at the photos, they're side by side. Woman. You have the showgirl in her makeup and her costuming and the version that she presents to the world, and then you have the authentic version of her. Both are beautiful. I would argue that the authentic is more intriguing.

[Annie Leibovitz]

I think. I think this is open to discussion, you know, because. And, you know, because I know you were interested in. Has a photograph changed from you over time. And I think the Showgirls, I think they still kind of. I'm still trying to sort of understand them on some level, but I met them the night before in their dressing rooms, in their costumes, and they came into the studio the next day. Susan McNamara came in first. And this is true. I said, can I help you? I didn't know who she was. I really didn't know who she was. And she was one of the Showgirls. And so I just was so spellbound by the fact that the women came in, you know, out of costume and unrecognizable, you know, from their. In their costume. So, you know, I don't think it's two different people. They're the same person. It's just, you know, I'm still trying to sort it out, but it's mesmerizing to me.

[Desi Lydic]

And that was the series that made you think, oh, this could actually be.

[Annie Leibovitz]

That's right. Yeah. Maybe we could do this book.

[Desi Lydic]

Yeah, yeah. And you also shot an incredible photograph of Michelle Obama. Yes. There she is.

[Annie Leibovitz]

So Michelle agreed to be in the book, and I got a call from her office, and she said, we photographed for the new book, and we got a call from her office, and she asked if she could wear jeans. And I said, sure. You know, and so I had no idea what we were, you know, sort of getting ourselves into. But she's so incredible, you know, I think she also told me she was just, you know, driving a car by herself now. And she was just really finding herself. This is a woman that the first lady that I photographed several times for the covers of Vogue during those eight years. So to see her just sort of finding, refinding herself, it was really very beautiful.

[Desi Lydic]

Beautiful, very free, very liberating photo. And then one of your favorites, from what I understand, is the photograph of your mom.

[Annie Leibovitz]

I end up talking about that because, you know, inevitably I get this question, what's your favorite photograph? And I don't have a favorite photograph, really, but this photograph of my mom, which was done for the first. The first volume, yes. She's the age I am now. And she was afraid of being older. She was nervous. She was afraid of being photographed. She was afraid that she was going to look older or be older. And then we also have this. This problem in my family where my mother would always make a smile for pictures. So I was determined not to have her smile. So she didn't like the picture at first. And my father said, I don't like the picture because she's not smiling, you know, but it's an amazing photograph over time because when I look at it, I realize it really feels like the camera's not there. And she's really, like, looking, you know, looking at you. There's no camera there. And I think that's really what you want to achieve in a portrait is there's no camera there.

[Desi Lydic]

Yeah. And I also love that you said that, you know, she was sort of the life of the party and bubbly and charismatic. But what you loved so much about this particular photo is that it showed her intelligence because she was such an intelligent woman. Thank you.

[Annie Leibovitz]

You're doing your research. I love that.

[Desi Lydic]

I learned from you.

[Annie Leibovitz]

I love that.

[Desi Lydic]

Learn from the best.

[Trevor Noah]

Yeah.

[Desi Lydic]

This is such an incredible collection of beautiful photos. And this isn't. It's not just celebrities and star athletes. You have inspiring women from all walks of Life. You have CEOs, you have a NASA mathematician advocates.

[Annie Leibovitz]

Can I say, if you get the opportunity. I wish I put it more in the front of the book, the bios, which are little haikus on these women in the new book. An Astounding Group of Women. I mean, it could have gone on and on and on and on. And this is just a small selection, but there is a difference between we couldn't have done this book 25 years ago. And we are really, you know, in this. In this. In this quiet, roaring confidence, as Chimpamanda says. I mean, I just think we're an incredible set of people right now, as women. And it's much different from 25 years ago.

[Desi Lydic]

Yes. That's reassuring to hear. And hopefully we continue to move forward and do not go backwards, whatever the White House wants to bring our way.

[Annie Leibovitz]

No, it's. It's a tough time. It's a tough time. But that's what's interesting about Gloria's essay is she addresses that.

[Desi Lydic]

Yes.

[Annie Leibovitz]

And she's lived a long life and she's. She said we're not. I have to believe her. We're not going backwards.

[Desi Lydic]

That's right. That's right. Which is the optimism that we all need right now. I am so grateful for your work. Thank you for doing what you do.

[Annie Leibovitz]

I can't believe.

[Desi Lydic]

Thank you for being here. You're an absolute delight.

[Child Participant]

Women is available now.

[Trevor Noah]

Explore more shows from the Daily show podcast universe by searching the Daily Show. Wherever you get your podcasts, watch the Daily show weeknights at 1110 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount. Plus, this has been a Comedy Central

[Marlon]

podcast

[Desi Lydic]

new to TikTok. You might be surprised. TikTok Shop is packed with a wide variety of products and unexpected discounts. Easy to browse, easy to find. Good value. Download TikTok now.