Trump Puts the Squeeze on Venezuela's Oil & Eyes Greenland as Next Target | Stephen J. Dubner

Summary

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The Daily Show: Ears Edition

Episode: Trump Puts the Squeeze on Venezuela's Oil & Eyes Greenland as Next Target | Stephen J. Dubner
Date: January 8, 2026
Host: Roy Cheng (with Ronnie T. and Jordan Klepper)
Featured Guest: Stephen J. Dubner

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Daily Show: Ears Edition dives deep into the Trump administration's recent invasion of Venezuela and its implications for democracy—and oil—in Latin America. The team also takes a satirical look at America’s outsized ambitions (including threats toward Greenland), skewers the new breed of White House influencers, and welcomes Stephen J. Dubner, co-author of Freakonomics, for a wide-ranging, irreverent anniversary interview.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Trump’s Oil Grab in Venezuela

[01:02–07:22]

• Occupation and Oil-Seizure: The hosts lampoon the U.S. military action in Venezuela, where President Trump has seized control of both the country and its oil, arresting the Venezuelan president and demanding vast oil transfers to the U.S.

• Mocking 'Freedom': Satirical praise is given to Trump’s declaration of “freedom” while the U.S. imposes strict terms on Venezuela’s sovereignty and economy.

  "Trump is stinking up the joint with freedom. Can you smell it? It's just crop dusting our hemisphere of democracy. Breathe it in, people."
  — Roy Cheng [02:09]

• Direct Corruption, Mafia Analogies: Trump’s approach compared favorably (?!), at least in terms of transparency, to past secretive dealings (e.g., Cheney/Halliburton).

  "Donald Trump is like, yo, just give me the oil, I'll open a gas pump outside the Oval Office..."
  — Roy Cheng [02:46]

• Military Blockade & Extortion: U.S. demands Venezuela kick out Chinese, Russian, Iranian, and Cuban interests, establishing exclusive partnership with America. The team mocks the coercion, likening it to a mobster isolating a partner from their friends.

• America's Next Targets: Segue to jokes about America “liberating” more countries, e.g., Cuba and Nicaragua, raising alarm about perpetual interventions in Latin America.

  "Democracy is coming back to this hemisphere."
  — Jordan Klepper [05:35]

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2. America Eyes Greenland—Even Against NATO

[06:10–07:22]

• Wild Expansionism: The show lampoons the Trump administration floating the acquisition of Greenland, despite it being a NATO-protected Danish territory.

  "The only thing we hate more than a brutal authoritarian regime is whatever the complete opposite of that is."
  — Roy Cheng [06:17]

• NATO Tensions: The hosts underline the absurd risk of breaking the NATO alliance by attacking Greenland, with jokes about “sneak attacks” on allies.

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3. Live from Caracas: The Venezuela “Mafia” Model

[07:22–11:01]

• Michael Costa in Caracas: "Extortion" is reframed as legit international business: “protection” in exchange for steady payouts.

  "This is just Venezuela tucking an envelope of cash into Donald Trump's pocket every week. Because it would be a real shame if they forgot to pay..."
  — Ronnie T. [08:24]

• Mafia Parallels: A volley of mob-movie references and comedic banter reinforce the analogy while highlighting the dangers of abandoning international law.

  "If we abandon international law, what will stop the next superpower from extorting us once our run as an empire is over?"
  — Roy Cheng [10:25]

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4. Meet the New “White House Reporter”: Benny Johnson Exposé

[12:48–21:22]

• Rise of Online Influencers: The "News to Meet Ya" segment, led by Jordan Klepper, calls out the trend of influencer-reporters like Benny Johnson, lampooning his history of plagiarism and hyper-partisan clickbait.

  "How bad of a writer do you have to be to cheat on a BuzzFeed article with Yahoo Answers?"
  — Jordan Klepper [14:41]

• Bombastic, Derivative Content: The segment plays clips of Benny’s inflammatory rhetoric and shallow political commentary, mocking his focus on Batman analogies and performative masculinity.

• Astroturfing & Foreign Influence: Reports surface that Johnson and others are being paid by Russia to amplify divisive narratives.

  "Oh, he's just being paid by foreign forces to destroy America from within. Phew. I thought my neighbors actually liked the guy."
  — Jordan Klepper [16:28]

• Batman Obsession: Klepper ridicules Johnson’s self-image as “Batman”:

  "You're not Batman. You are a thirsty influencer. Cosplaying as a journalist at best. You are the nipples on George Clooney's Batman suit."
  — Jordan Klepper [20:48]

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5. Interview: Stephen J. Dubner (Freakonomics Anniversary)

[23:38–39:11]

• Publishing Underdog Story: Dubner recounts how Freakonomics almost never happened due to publisher resistance to the title, only for it to become a cultural phenomenon.

  "Our publisher thought... there's no way we can call this book Freakonomics. ...But we persevered."
  — Stephen Dubner [24:50]

• What Made Freakonomics Work: Dubner credits the accessible, countercultural tone and the focus on “hidden causality” (like abortion and crime, collusion in sumo, cheating teachers) backed by real data.

  "We just told stories like you do in a regular book, but with a lot of data. And we showed our homework."
  — Stephen Dubner [27:05]

• Validity After 20 Years: Recent follow-up studies affirm the accuracy of their controversial findings.

  "Levitt and his coauthor on the abortion crime study... did a whole new study with 20 years more worth of data. And yeah, the book is legit."
  — Stephen Dubner [30:48]

• Writing in 2026—Is It Possible?: Dubner reflects on how today’s hyper-reactive media climate makes bold, judgment-free social science harder, but emphasizes the continued need for evidence-based analysis.

• Quirky Data Models: He shares two tidbits—a tip that asylum judges make harsher decisions when hungry, and curious insights on artificial insemination in turkeys (all are artificially bred due to breast size) and racehorses (must be naturally bred for economic reasons).

  "The one [animal] that always is [bred by artificial insemination]—turkeys... The one that never is—racehorses..."
  — Stephen Dubner [36:03]

• Value of Nonjudgmental Analysis: Dubner underscores their style: presenting connections without telling the reader what to do or what to think, an approach praised by Roy Cheng.

  "We were trying to just lay out: this is the way the world works, using these case studies or stories. And you smart person...you go in the world and do something with it without us telling you what to do."
  — Stephen Dubner [34:05]

• Surprising Book Resurgence: Despite expectations, book reading is up—thanks in part to independent bookstores and changes at Barnes & Noble.

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6. Moment of Zen

[40:57–41:17]

Mocking Trump’s Greenland ambitions:

"You know what Denmark did recently to boost up security in Greenland? They added one more dog sled..."
— Ronnie T. [41:00]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On U.S. Foreign Policy:
  "Just because you dictate doesn't make you a dictator. Okay? Because... No, it doesn'. Dictators, they live in, like, a gold palace or something. Ah. Oh."
  — Roy Cheng [04:33]

• On American Exceptionalism:
  "Your brain is like a cannoli with no filling."
  — Ronnie T. to Roy Cheng [10:15]

• On New Journalism:
  "You are the nipples on George Clooney's Batman suit."
  — Jordan Klepper on Benny Johnson [20:48]

• On Publishing:
  "Cause you assume that, like, you work hard on it, but most books, you know how many books are published every year? It's like 250,000. And most people, the average American reads like zero..."
  — Stephen Dubner [25:42]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Venezuela invasion & oil satire: [01:02–07:22]
• Plans for Greenland, NATO parody: [06:10–07:22]
• Mafia model & Michael Costa in Caracas: [07:22–11:01]
• Benny Johnson/News influencer roast: [12:48–21:22]
• Stephen J. Dubner interview: [23:38–39:11]
• Moment of Zen (Greenland): [40:57–41:17]

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Summary

This episode showcases The Daily Show at its sharpest: lampooning U.S. foreign adventures, skewering the pageantry and menace of influencer “journalism,” and giving airtime to genuinely thoughtful analysis as Stephen Dubner reflects on Freakonomics. Listeners are treated to equal parts irreverence and insight, with the underlying message that data, skepticism, and critical humor are all more needed than ever.

For more, catch full episodes weeknights at 11/10c on Comedy Central or stream on Paramount+.

Transcript

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Ronnie T.]

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[Roy Cheng]

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[Ronnie T.]

You're listening to Comedy Central. From the most trusted journalists at Comedy Central. It's America's only source for news. This is the Daily show with your host, Ronnie T.

[Roy Cheng]

Welcome to the Daily Show. I'm Roy Cheng. We got so much to talk about tonight. Trump grabs more oil than Diddy. The new Batman reboot sucks. And did you know Iceland is actually green? And Greenland is actually under threat from the President of the United States. So let's find out more in our ongoing coverage of the war in Venezuela.

[Ronnie T.]

Leave the oil to me.

[Roy Cheng]

It's been five days since America invaded Venezuela, arrested its president and seized control of the country. And now the real work begins. Nation building. I'm sorry, I read that wrong. I meant narrative building.

[Ronnie T.]

The bottom line is we now have freedom in Venezuela.

[Narrator/Announcer]

I have so many Venezuelan friends, they are crying tears of joy.

[Jordan Klepper]

This is their first real opportunity for to experience democracy and freedom.

[Ronnie T.]

Listen, people, smell freedom in the air. And they can thank Donald J. Trump.

[Roy Cheng]

That's right, Trump is stinking up the joint with freedom. Can you smell it? It's just crop dusting our hemisphere of democracy. Breathe it in, people. Finally, the Venezuelan people are in charge of their own destiny. Let's see exactly what kind of freedom they have won.

[Ronnie T.]

President Donald Trump announced that Venezuela will be giving the US 30 to 50.

[Roy Cheng]

Million barrels of oil to be sold.

[Ronnie T.]

This oil will be sold at its market price and that money will be controlled by me as President of the United States of America.

[Roy Cheng]

Okay, okay, look, say what you want about his corruption, at least Trump is hands on with it. Okay? Dick Cheney had to funnel it through Halliburton or whatever, but Donald Trump is like, yo, just give me the oil, I'll open a gas pump outside the Oval Office, okay? Just come drive right up. But no Amex. So, yes, Venezuela has agreed to hand over approximately $2 billion worth of oil to the United States out of the goodness of their hearts and because we are mugging them, which seems harsh, but you know what? A little bit of oil money For President Trump is a small price to pay for illegally kidnapping the president. And now that this payoff is taken care of, America will get out of your hair. Goodbye forever. Venezuela, you're finally free.

[Ronnie T.]

The US now imposing a military blockade on its oil exports, using it as leverage to get Venezuela to give in to the Trump administration's demands. The US has conveyed to the interim leader of Venezuela that she must agree to partner exclusively with the US on oil production and kick out officials from China, Russia, Iran and Cuba, severing all economic ties with those countries.

[Roy Cheng]

I think we all know what's going on here, ladies. When your new boyfriend forces you to cut ties with all of your friends, he's a keeper. Sorry. It kind of feels like Trump wants to be the new dictator of Venezuela. But that. That can't be right.

[Ronnie T.]

Right?

[Narrator/Announcer]

We obviously have maximum leverage over the interim authorities.

[Ronnie T.]

Their decisions are going to continue to.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Be dictated by the United States of America.

[Roy Cheng]

Okay, look, I know how that sounds, but just because you dictate doesn't make you a dictator. Okay? Because. No, it doesn'. Dictators, they live in, like, a gold palace or something. Ah. Oh. All right. And to any Venezuelans looking for advice on how to get rid of Donald Trump, we have no idea. But I can tell you one thing that doesn't work. Satire doesn't do shit.

[Ronnie T.]

But.

[Roy Cheng]

If you're in a country in the area, and this sounds like a good deal, well, good news. You're next.

[Ronnie T.]

This is the start of changing Venezuela.

[Jordan Klepper]

Then we're going to fix Cuba.

[Ronnie T.]

Nicaragua will get fixed next year. We'll get a new president in Colombia.

[Jordan Klepper]

Democracy is coming back to this hemisphere.

[Roy Cheng]

Okay, first of all, congratulations to this guy on surviving the Ark of the Covenant. And second, look, okay, the world is a messed up place. If an oil rampage is what it takes to spread democracy, maybe that's what it takes. Okay? Stop being such babies. So which of these tyrannical dictatorships are we going after next?

[Ronnie T.]

President Trump and his team are also targeting a northern ally of the US with new threats to take over Greenland.

[Roy Cheng]

That's right, Greenland. Because the only thing we hate more than a brutal authoritarian regime is whatever the complete opposite of that is. That's just one little hitch with invading Greenland.

[Ronnie T.]

Denmark, which controls the independent territory, is a close NATO ally. The Danish Prime Minister has said a US Attack on NATO territory would effectively end the alliance, which has never seen one member attack another. Great.

[Roy Cheng]

Okay, that means they won't expect it. It's the definition of a sneak attack. Okay, the point is, we need Greenland? Why? For their freedom or their oil or for national defense. Look, I don't remember what excuse we're using, but okay, this congressman, he'll explain.

[Ronnie T.]

It's important that we have a stake in Greenland. When you look at the Western Hemisphere, we are the dominant predator. Quite frank force in the Western Hemisphere.

[Roy Cheng]

Yeah. Trump is the dominant predator in the Western Hemisphere. At least now that Jeffrey Epstein is dead. For more on America's plans in Venezuela, we go live to Caracas with Michael Kosta. Michael. Michael.

[Ronnie T.]

Michael.

[Roy Cheng]

How are Venezuelans reacting to this? Extortion.

[Ronnie T.]

Extortion? Oh, Ronnie. What America is doing here is legitimate international business. Trump is simply offering Venezuela protection from dictators and foreign enemies, and in exchange, they give him money for that protection.

[Roy Cheng]

Capiche? Michael, that's the business model of the maf.

[Ronnie T.]

The Mafia. Oh, stugats. This is not the Mob. This is just Venezuela tucking an envelope of cash into Donald Trump's pocket every week. Because it would be a real shame if they forgot to pay and their economy blew up when it turned on its car.

[Roy Cheng]

Okay, everything you're describing is what the mob does, okay? You're even dressed like you're in the mobile.

[Ronnie T.]

All right, fine. Maybe America has a little bit of a Mafia face. So what? The Mafia's muto Ben? You get to wear nice suits, you skip the line at the Copa, and you get to kiss guys on the lips when they portray you. And you get to drink from fancy little cups. Salud.

[Roy Cheng]

Look, okay, Costa, it's a little late in the day to be drinking espresso.

[Narrator/Announcer]

This.

[Ronnie T.]

This is crude oil. As my nonna used to say, that's a spicy diesel fuel.

[Roy Cheng]

Have you not seen any Mafia movies? It never ends well for them.

[Ronnie T.]

Name one mob movie that doesn't end well.

[Roy Cheng]

The Godfather.

[Ronnie T.]

Name two.

[Roy Cheng]

The Godfather two.

[Ronnie T.]

Name three.

[Roy Cheng]

The Godfather three.

[Ronnie T.]

Name six more.

[Roy Cheng]

Well, all those Scorsese movies and the Sopranos.

[Ronnie T.]

Technically, we don't know how the Sopranos ends. For all we know, Tony is still at the strip club eating gabagool, getting a lap dance from a girl wearing a bikini made of gabagool.

[Roy Cheng]

Pasta. I know it's great to live by Lala's mob rules when you have power, but what's to stop someone bigger from doing all this mafia shit on us?

[Ronnie T.]

Ronnie, Ronnie, Ronnie. Your brain is like a cannoli with no filling. If that happens to America, we'll just turn state witness. I'm already wearing a wire.

[Roy Cheng]

What? No, no, this isn't tv. Okay? If we abandon international law, what will stop the next superpower from extorting us once our run as an empire is over.

[Ronnie T.]

Name one time an empire's come to an end.

[Roy Cheng]

One time. The Romans, the British, the Germans, Mongolians.

[Ronnie T.]

Ottomans stop making place. Trust me, this is not gonna happen this time.

[Roy Cheng]

Oh really? Why not?

[Ronnie T.]

Because there's only one way for all this Venezuela stuff to end, and that is.

[Roy Cheng]

He Soprano'd me. God damn it. Michael Costa, everyone. When we come back, we discover America's best reporter. So don't go.

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[Roy Cheng]

Welcome back to the Daily Show. Every year there's more and more reporters joining the esteemed profession of the news media. So to find out who some of them are, we go to Jordan Klepper in our ongoing segment News to meet ya.

[Jordan Klepper]

Lately, President Trump has been introducing a slew of new reporters to the White House press pool, including social media star and fellow forehead American. Lucky for us, he's not afraid to hold the powerful accountable and ask the tough questions.

[Ronnie T.]

Will the President consider giving the Presidential Medal of Freedom to big balls?

[Jordan Klepper]

That's a very important question. It will be the first Medal of Freedom awarded to a human scrotum since Rush Limbaugh. No, it is these. It is these kinds of bold and very wrinkly questions that Benny Johnson has been asking for years on his creatively titled programs like the Benny show, the Benny Report, Benny Brews, and Benny on the Block, and of course, Breaking Benny Two and a Half Bennys, and the Kelly Clarkson show featuring Benny Johnson. But before he was getting literally a billion views online, Benny worked at storied news outlets like Breitbart, the Blaze, and buzzfeed, where he honed a Unique perspective that was definitely authentic and original.

[Ronnie T.]

BuzzFeed announced it was firing its viral.

[Jordan Klepper]

Politics editor, Benny Johnson for plagiarism.

[Ronnie T.]

Johnson wholesale copied words and entire phrases from the Guardian, U.S. news & World Report, and even Yahoo.

[Roy Cheng]

Answers.

[Jordan Klepper]

Wow. How bad of a writer do you have to be to cheat on a buzzfeed article with Yahoo Answers? Yahoo Answers, the website that bravely asks, what if Wikipedia was written by guys who scroll graffiti in public toilets? But now that he's no longer at buzzfeed, he's not forced to write drivel like which Harry Potter house matches your Disney princess style? I'm a Hufflepuff Moana. But that's beside the point. Benny is now free to talk politics. Give us a.

[Ronnie T.]

Taste. Every single thing you hate about your life right now or American culture is caused by mass immigration. American cities are treasures, and we should not sacrifice them to the mongoloid horde. White rage is how you win a war. Leftists are a death cult. Save this country from literal demons, from Satanists, and from.

[Jordan Klepper]

Scum, You Slytherin.

[Ronnie T.]

Elsa.

[Jordan Klepper]

Bitch.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Wow.

[Jordan Klepper]

Wow. Maybe we were too hard on plagiarism. You know, regardless, Benny's constant stream of vitriol and cruelty has reaped him billions of views. And frankly, it blows my mind that someone this unoriginal and derivative can garner such online attention And. And the ear of the President. I mean, what am I.

[Ronnie T.]

Missing? Some of the most famous, most viewed right wing online influencers were being paid by Russia. Part of a Kremlin backed campaign to fuel Russian narratives. Among those stars, Benny.

[Jordan Klepper]

Johnson. Oh, he's just being paid by foreign forces to destroy America from within. Phew. I thought my neighbors actually liked the guy. You know what? His popularity can't just all be Russia putting their finger on the scale. Perhaps there's a star quality there. Show me the undeniable charisma.

[Roy Cheng]

Benny, What's going.

[Jordan Klepper]

On? Whoa. That's the good. The first good question I've heard you ask. What is going on? He dances like a Jabberwocky with polio. Now, I know J.D. vance said we don't have to apologize for being white anymore, but on behalf of the whites, I'm sorry you all had to see that. But you know.

[Ronnie T.]

What? You know.

[Jordan Klepper]

What? Hey, you know what? You know what? You don't have to have coordinated limbs or a toddler's sense of rhythm to be compelling. Hit us with your classic Benny Johnson charm and.

[Ronnie T.]

Humor. Welcome to the Benny Report. I'm Batman. Actually, I'm Benny.

[Jordan Klepper]

Johnson. Okay, okay. For a second, I thought he was Batman. You got me, Benny and I what? If you like that Batman reference, don't worry, there's plenty.

[Ronnie T.]

More. Have you ever watched the Dark Knight? Arguably the greatest superhero film of all time? The scene when Batman, like, comes up through the floor and there's like seven bad guys and they're like, who is this? And the big Batman just takes them all out. I want Batman to stay Batman, not turn into Antifa man. So I'm a big Batman fan. We're going to begin by saying Batman for your.

[Jordan Klepper]

Boy. No, no, no, no. We are not. We are adults and we do adult things. Yes, adults and we do adult things like crossword puzzles, buy orthotic inserts and drink quietly over the sink after our wife goes to bed. We do adult things. But yeah, Benny loves Batman so much, he even released an AI video of himself dressed as Batman and punching immigrants in a Walmart parking lot. I know what you're thinking, what a xenophobic and cruel vision of Batman. But it's still better than the George Clooney.

[Roy Cheng]

One. You're not so.

[Jordan Klepper]

Good. You're all taking him. And you know what? I know I'm going to hate this answer, but what is it about the caped crusader you even like so.

[Ronnie T.]

Much? Benny, both Trump and Batman are rich, mysterious, unpredictable guys. They own skyscrapers in.

[Roy Cheng]

Gotham.

[Jordan Klepper]

Okay, so your favorite thing about Batman is that he's rich and owns buildings. Benny, you don't like Batman. You like Bruce Wayne. Benny Johnson watches Batman fighting the Joker like, boo. You're missing the black tie gala for this. I gotta admit. Benny, Benny, you're running out of chances to win me over here. Can you show me anything that proves you have the goods to speak truth to.

[Roy Cheng]

Power? What's up.

[Ronnie T.]

Guys? It's Benny. We are taking you inside Alligator Alcatraz today with President Trump. One of the most deadly spots on.

[Roy Cheng]

Earth. The middle of the Florida.

[Ronnie T.]

Everglades. Let's frickin cook. This is gonna be a wild.

[Roy Cheng]

One. We're.

[Ronnie T.]

In. Rock and roll. So come along with us on a nice raid in.

[Roy Cheng]

Chicago. Let's.

[Ronnie T.]

Go. Let's rock and.

[Jordan Klepper]

Roll. Ooh, yeah. Nothing says let's rock and roll like a quarter zip and some Warby Parkers. Although I will say one thing. I liked. Not one mention of Batman underneath.

[Ronnie T.]

Chicago. You recognize some of these tunnels from the actual Dark Knight.

[Jordan Klepper]

Series? God damn.

[Roy Cheng]

It. Damn.

[Jordan Klepper]

It. For the last time, you are not Batman. You are a thirsty influencer. Cosplaying as a journalist at best. You are the nipples on George Clooney's. Batman suit. Yes, A gross appendage that years from now history would prefer to forget. At least I think that's true, according to Yahoo. Answers. I'm Jordan Klepper. Good night and seriously, good.

[Roy Cheng]

Luck. Thank you, Jordan. When we come back, Stephen J. Dublin will be joining us on the show. If it don't go.

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[Ronnie T.]

TJ Watt and I'm back with YPB by Abercrombie for another activewear drop. My second co design collection has new shorts and tanks that keep up with all my in season workouts. And their new Restore collection is again game changer off the field too because even pro athletes like me need rest.

[Jordan Klepper]

Days. Shop YPB by Abercrombie in the.

[Ronnie T.]

App, online and in stores because your personal best is greater than.

[Roy Cheng]

Anything. Welcome back to the Daily Show. My guest tonight is the host of Freakonomics Radio and co author of Freakonomics. Now in the news 20th anniversary edition. Please welcome Mr. Stephen Dubner. Thank.

[Ronnie T.]

You.

[Roy Cheng]

Thanks. Thanks for coming on the.

[Ronnie T.]

Show. You're welcome. Thank.

[Roy Cheng]

You. 20 years I read this book book in college and it changed the way I saw the world. Why is everything in this.

[Ronnie T.]

Wrong? Well, We didn't have ChatGPT.

[Roy Cheng]

Yet. Let's start with the title Freakonomics. Come on. Like, that makes everyone think it's a study on, like, Diddy Pop or.

[Ronnie T.]

Something. That's what our publisher thought. They said, there's no way we can call this book Freakonomics. They said, do you know what freak means? And I thought I did, but then they said it has to do with, you know, children, animals, sex, things like.

[Roy Cheng]

That. And I didn't actually know, but you went with. Anyway, we.

[Ronnie T.]

Persevered.

[Roy Cheng]

Yes. And it's a real. I mean, before we get into the substance of the book, it's almost a triumph of publishing this story that you made this book because. Because when you wrote it, co wrote it, you guys didn't think that it was gonna become the.

[Ronnie T.]

Phenomenon. We did not. We did not. Every, I think every writer, like, you finish your manuscript, then it goes to the publisher and they're getting it ready. And that's the period that we call the lull before the lull. Cause you assume that, like, you work hard on it, but most books, you know how many books are published every year? It's like 250,000. And most people, the average American reads like zero.

[Roy Cheng]

So. So the numbers are not.

[Ronnie T.]

Good. The numbers are not.

[Roy Cheng]

Good. You could say the Freakonomics don't make sense in that one. But when you. I like the. It's an interesting story you talk about. In the foreword of this 20th edition that you called it Freakonomics, your publisher said, that name's not gonna work, and you did it. And so it kind of freed you from the burden of expectation and you wrote the book you want. Is that because the publisher kind of gave up on it after you named it that? No. In the sense. No. Was the publisher going like, hey, these are not listening to us anyway. You don't want to listen. We're just publishers. What do we know? We just sell books every day. You don't want to listen to us. All right, Write whatever the you want. And then you wrote it and it blew up. And then you want, like, rubbing in their faces the whole.

[Ronnie T.]

Time. Yes, that is exactly what happened. Yes. Very.

[Roy Cheng]

Awesome. No, I love it. Yeah, dude, we all love underdog showbiz. Store of sticking it to metal thumb, you know, producers and studios and I mean, in case for the less educated people here who don't know, this book is divided into kind of almost case studies. Yeah, right. Which is also unconventional structure for a.

[Ronnie T.]

Book. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. We didn't have. So I have a co author Steve Levitt, who was on this show, probably in the studio right near here, but not the same one. Twenty years ago, when the book first came out, he was on with Jon.

[Roy Cheng]

Stewart. Oh, sorry. I'm sorry you had to come on.

[Ronnie T.]

Me. And, yeah, we didn't expect the book. Like, we had a blast writing it. And Levitt is an economist. I'm a writer. We started to spend some time together, and he did in economics what I like to do as a writer, which is find whatever stories, often odd or surprising, and just go deep on them. But the beauty of this is I'm a writer. We look for stories. But Levitt, as an economist, had data. So he had data on sumo wrestlers and real estate agents and what people name their babies and all these different things. And so what we did is we just told stories like you do in a regular book, but with a lot of data. And we showed our homework. We tried to really explain to the listener why this thing that we say that is true, why you should believe it. And it's really hard for me to understand why it succeeded the way it did, other than there were a lot of young people like you in college trying to figure out, like, I know when the authority figures tell me the way the world works, they're lying. I know that. And institutions, you know, they kind of tell you one story, but it doesn't work out that way. So we were just trying to blow the lid off that with data, for.

[Roy Cheng]

Sure. Now that you mentioned it, it did feel very countercultural at the time when, you know. And now 20 years later, you guys are the institutions.

[Ronnie T.]

Now. I guess.

[Roy Cheng]

So. You guys are the old guys, you know. But no, but I mean that when I said it changed the way I look at the world, it did, because it kind of made me think about. It was written. It was very easy to read, first of all. So it was kind of like academics, but made.

[Ronnie T.]

Dharma. Yeah, I was. I was the. My partner is an academic, so you know what part I am of.

[Roy Cheng]

That. No, you made it accessible. And regardless of, you know, whatever was the facts involved. But it just made me think of a. It was a different way to look at the world, that there's these. You could take two separate situations and there could be hidden.

[Ronnie T.]

Causation. That's.

[Roy Cheng]

Right. Between.

[Ronnie T.]

Them. That's.

[Roy Cheng]

Right. So, you know, for people, again, for the uneducated people on social media, while watching this, on YouTube, on the toilet, while taking a shit, you know, so, for example, if you haven't read the book, there's a story in here about.

[Ronnie T.]

Connecting. Can I just say I'm glad that they're taking a shit on the toilet. I mean, that's a win. You.

[Roy Cheng]

Gotta. I guess. I mean, I somewhat consider it the bare minimum, but I guess in 2026, we take that as a win. These days, if you're taking a shot on the toilet, congratulations, you made it. And there's connections here between, you know, abortion and crime rates and stuff like that. You know, 20 years later, I reread this. I think there was a second edition. You added a foreword. Yeah, but really, it hasn't changed that much. It didn't. I mean, do the studies and the connections still hold.

[Ronnie T.]

Up? Yeah, I mean, I know. Thanks to the Internet, which we all love in many different.

[Roy Cheng]

Ways. The Internet. I hate you guys. Legacy media for life.

[Ronnie T.]

Basically. So it is true that if you do good nonfiction work. So, you know, I'm a journalist by training, worked at the New York Times, et cetera. There are a lot of things that are great about real journalism, including the fact that rather than asking one person what's going on, you ask a lot, you fact check it, et cetera, et cetera. That said, if you write a book which is full of what we argue is all true stuff backed up by data, there will be a million people who say, well, in my experience, that's not true. And then it starts a kind of pissing war there. The good news is that the book, which we kind of went back and reexamined a bunch of times, and Levitt and his co author on the abortion crime study that you mentioned, actually went back and did a whole new study with 20 years more worth of data. And yeah, the book is legit. I was very.

[Jordan Klepper]

Happy. That's good to.

[Ronnie T.]

Know. It was good to.

[Roy Cheng]

Know. If you were to rewrite this book in.

[Ronnie T.]

2026. Oh, not possible. Oh, why not possible? Like, when I read it now, like, you know, I hear the voices of the people that we were then. And when you're 20 years younger, you're a different person. You're a little bit. I think we're a little bit more, like, callow. And also the environment was different. You could just say stuff. Now you're in an environment where because of. Of the amplification of social. No matter what you say, there will be an avalanche coming at you. And unless you're really good at tuning it out, which I encourage everyone to become really good at. Cause that's important. Then you're gonna doubt yourself and you're gonna dial it down. You're gonna make boring stuff. And we did not wanna be.

[Roy Cheng]

Boring. Okay. I don't know. If you watch this show, we talk about a ton of shit every day. And I say.

[Ronnie T.]

This, I say.

[Roy Cheng]

This with truly no bravado. Objectively. We truly do not give a on this show, like, if you watch that. So I kind of disagree on this. We can't say anything.

[Ronnie T.]

Now. Okay, I'm gonna leave.

[Roy Cheng]

It. No, no, no, Please don't leave. But I guess what I was trying to not so much that you are younger and more spry back then. I just mean, like, I was.

[Ronnie T.]

So spry, let me tell.

[Roy Cheng]

You. But what I meant more was, like, if you were to write this book now, what case studies might you put in there? That's kind of what I.

[Ronnie T.]

Meant. Oh, I would. I mean, the ones I've been thinking about are not necessarily as fun. Like, there were a lot of fun ones. Sumo wrestling, I mentioned so on. Like, I would write a lot about AI now just to sell the.

[Roy Cheng]

Book. Could you quickly explain the connection between sumo wrestling.

[Ronnie T.]

And. Oh, yeah. So it turns out that sumo wrestlers will collude with each other, even sumo wrestlers from opposite teams or stables, because they will help each other kind of maintain their rank in the big rankings that determine basically whether you eat or not. So we looked at collusion in sumo wrestlers. We looked at cheating teachers, which I think probably still happens a little bit. Can I tell you what was so interesting about that? We looked at, turned out that teachers, when the standards were raised for children, the no Child Left behind standards, where schools would be punished if a certain number of children would fail, it turned out there were some teachers that would actually cheat on behalf of their students. They would actually take standardized tests, erase the wrong answers, and write in the right ones, which is terrible and sad. Sad face. But what was particularly interesting was that the teachers who cheated were the bad teachers. In other words, it was the bad teachers who had to cheat on behalf of their students because the teachers hadn't done a good job teaching them. So now I think we would write about AI what I.

[Roy Cheng]

Love. Sorry, before you get to.

[Ronnie T.]

2026. I don't even have to get.

[Roy Cheng]

To. No, no, I do want to hear what you hear. But one thing I love about the whole tone of these books is that you kind of present all this stuff as you just did, kind of objectively, without judgment. Here's the connections, whether you like it or not, without providing any solutions whatsoever. And I love.

[Narrator/Announcer]

It. I love.

[Roy Cheng]

It. That's what it's.

[Ronnie T.]

About. And so, yeah, all.

[Roy Cheng]

Right. You're like, I would argue, Socrates, just throwing these mediocrity in the air and going, you know, but I mean, please answer. But I do want to hear about 2026.

[Ronnie T.]

Though. I don't care about.

[Roy Cheng]

2026. No, I do, I do. I.

[Ronnie T.]

Care. But what I would say is that you're right, that we probably don't provide a lot of solutions. But I really appreciate and like that you said without judgment, because I feel that whether you're in entertainment journalism, running a country, whatever, I think the easiest trap to fall into is bringing your. What you think, your values, which you think are the only values to every argument, whether it's about health care, whether it's about housing and so on. And that's just prima facie, a stupid way to operate because not everybody believes like you. So we were trying to just lay out, like, this is the way the world works, using these case studies or stories. And you, smart person who reads a book now, you go in the world and do something with it without us telling you what to.

[Roy Cheng]

Do. Sure. No. And I think there is value. There is value there without. So I actually appreciate the tone you guys took with it. And I guess that's why I would love to HEAR what your 2026 kind of insights would be so that we could go into the world and act like smart asses like you guys and just drop some factoids on.

[Ronnie T.]

This. Let me think. Okay. If you happen to be seeking asylum and you get before a judge, an asylum judge, make sure you don't have the slot right before lunch. Okay. Bad, bad fortune for you. So if you happen to be like the last one before lunch, you should do something like. Like vomit to clear the courtroom so the judge comes back after he or she has.

[Roy Cheng]

Eaten. Who says you don't provide.

[Narrator/Announcer]

Solutions? You know what I.

[Roy Cheng]

Mean? This is what I'm talking.

[Narrator/Announcer]

About.

[Roy Cheng]

Yeah. And.

[Ronnie T.]

Or I'll tell you what I'd be writing about.

[Roy Cheng]

Now. Oh, sorry. Could you just explain a little bit why that's a.

[Ronnie T.]

Bad. Oh. Cause hungry people make bad decisions. It's no joke. And if you look at, like.

[Roy Cheng]

Sports reference, what if my case is weak? I need the judge to make a bad decision to get me into the.

[Ronnie T.]

Country. Oh, to get you into the.

[Roy Cheng]

Country.

[Ronnie T.]

Oh. That's a different story. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I hadn't gone that far with that logic. I'll tell you. How do you feel about artificial insemination? Is that a topic that interests.

[Roy Cheng]

You? It interests me a lot. I would have to say.

[Ronnie T.]

Yeah.

[Roy Cheng]

I like watching that a.

[Ronnie T.]

Lot. So one thing I've learned recently is that there are two animals that are very popular in America, one of.

[Roy Cheng]

Which is conceived Republicans and.

[Ronnie T.]

Democrats, one of which is conceived almost always by artificial insemination, the other never. And I found this interesting. The one that always is turkeys. And the reason is that we like to eat breast meat from turkey in America with mayonnaise and mustard and so on. And so they bred the turkeys to have such big breasts that they physically cannot get close enough to procreate anymore. Therefore, all turkeys you eat are. Are the product of artificial insemination. But on the other hand, on the other hand, thoroughbred racehorses, they're not allowed to be bred by artificial insemination. And the reason is that Kentucky has this real stranglehold, a monopoly on the thoroughbred breeding industry. And they know that if they were to allow artificial insemination, then no longer does everybody have to bring their horses to Kentucky to be bred by a real horse with a real, you know.

[Roy Cheng]

Thing. Okay, but how do they police.

[Ronnie T.]

That? There is a horse penis police.

[Roy Cheng]

Force just blocking the artificial.

[Ronnie T.]

Insemination. Yeah, I guess it's in the registry. You have to have the mother and father need to be physically present at the same time. Aren't you glad now, you.

[Roy Cheng]

Know? No, I. Hey, but this. Honestly, being 20 years old and reading all this, it was actually very eye opening. So I really appreciate it. And, like, what else? I mean, any other lessons you take from this that I guess, you know, how do we get people to, I don't know, just read.

[Ronnie T.]

More? Oh, you know, here's my thing. First of all, people are reading more books now than they were five and 10 years ago, which is really.

[Roy Cheng]

Interesting. Oh, that's.

[Ronnie T.]

Good. It's very interesting. It's a surprise because the trend was not going there, I will tell you. I mean, this is apropos of nothing other than that I'm a fan of this guy. He's a guy named James Daunt, who's an English bookstore owner. He opened a store called Daunt in London years ago. He was so good at running these small, great bookstores that the Barnes and Noble of England hired him to run their stores. Waterson's. And now the Barnes and Noble of America, which is called Barnes and Noble, hired him to also run Barnes and Noble here. So this one guy has really changed the way books are being sold in America. And I think the Amazon model, everybody liked it because it's easy, but it wasn't really about loving books. And so I think books are coming back with a force. I understand that that one is available in finer.

[Roy Cheng]

Bookstores. That's nice, Stephen. Thanks. Thanks for writing the book. Thanks for changing the way I look at the world. It was really insightful as a young person in college. I really appreciate it. Freakonomics 20th anniversary editions. Available now out. Be sure to check out the Freakonomics radio podcast. Stephen Dubn, everybody. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back after this. No, that's.

[Narrator/Announcer]

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[Roy Cheng]

Questions. That's our show for the night. Now here it is, your moment of.

[Ronnie T.]

Zen. We need Greenland from the standpoint of national security and Denmark is not going to be able to do it, I can tell you. You know what Denmark did recently to boost up security in Greenland? They added one more dog sled. It's true. They thought that was a great.

[Roy Cheng]

Move. Explore more shows from the Daily.

[Ronnie T.]

Show podcast universe by searching the Daily Show. Wherever you get your podcast casts, watch the Daily show weeknights at 1110 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on.

[Roy Cheng]

Paramount.

[Ronnie T.]

Plus, This has been a Comedy Central.