The Daily Stoic – BONUS | An Important Message About Grace & Forgiveness

Host: Ryan Holiday
Guest: Julia Baird
Date: November 27, 2025

Episode Overview

This bonus Thanksgiving episode explores the profound themes of grace, forgiveness, and moral beauty, drawing from both Stoic philosophy and inspirational real-life examples. Ryan Holiday and Australian journalist/author Julia Baird discuss how acts of grace impact individuals, communities, and cultures—emphasizing the role of generosity, self-sacrifice, and moral courage. They touch upon both personal and societal dimensions of forgiveness, highlight its difficulties, and distinguish it from justice. The episode encourages listeners to practice gratitude and grace, especially during the holiday season.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Power of Giving & Daily Stoic’s Annual Fundraiser

• Ryan reflects on the value of doing good for others, especially around Thanksgiving.
  • “One way I was saying you can always feel good is to do something nice for someone else. You can do something generous.” (Ryan Holiday, 02:08)
• Instead of typical holiday sales, he promotes a fundraising drive for Feeding America—over the years, raising over a million dollars and providing more than 10 million meals.
  • “That's over 10 million meals for people who absolutely need it. And it's one of the things I'm most proud of.” (Ryan Holiday, 03:01)

Awe and Moral Beauty: Science and Lived Experience

• Julia shares insights from Dacher Keltner's cross-cultural study on awe (07:32).
  • Contrary to what most expect, the most common cause of awe is witnessing acts of moral beauty in others—not grand natural phenomena.
  • “He found that the most common experience of [awe] was actually seeing it in another person, in another human being. Acts of moral beauty, of great courage, generosity, decency, people overcoming obstacles and hurdles…” (Julia Baird, 08:00)

Historical Example: Lincoln’s Grace

• Ryan recounts a story from Abraham Lincoln’s legal career:
  • Lincoln is mistreated and humiliated by a fellow lawyer, yet years later, selects that same man as his Secretary of War.
  • “It's the sense of self and the empathy and the forgiveness…this person who humiliated me, who treated me like absolute garbage, is the right man for this thing. And I won't get in their way…I will be their advocate.” (Ryan Holiday, 09:24)

Grace Is Not Sentimentality—It’s Hard

• Julia and Ryan discuss how society often romanticizes grace, but real forgiveness is challenging and costly.
  • “A lot of people see grace as something nice and about being polite...But this is about something that's really hard to do...Forgiving people can be incredibly hard to do. And you don't just do it once. You sometimes have to just do it every single day.” (Julia Baird, 11:22)

The Christian Concept of Grace and Its Demands

• The conversation explores the transformative idea that since we have received unearned grace, we are compelled to extend it—even to those who have hurt us.
  • “That sort of obligation or that indebtedness…you're a shitty person. You've done shitty things. So the idea that you get to hold that above someone else...That's a luxury that you're actually not ent[itled to].” (Guest, attributed to Ryan Holiday, 12:16)

Limits and Dangers of Forgiveness

• Julia warns about forgiveness being weaponized, especially in contexts like domestic violence.
  • “Forgiveness can sometimes be cutting ties and walking away from.” (Julia Baird, 13:04)
• Ryan and Julia stress that forgiveness is not incompatible with justice or self-protection.
  • “You forgiving the person is not mutually exclusive with them being held accountable for that thing…” (Ryan Holiday, 14:08)

Restorative Justice and Liberation from Grievance

• Julia discusses restorative justice: bringing together those harmed and those who caused harm, facilitated by a mediator, to seek both accountability and, possibly, healing.
  • “...Trying to recognize harm caused and each other's humanity...it can allow for the possibility of redemption, but it also can really free the victim.” (Julia Baird, 15:14)
• Julia shares the moving story of Debbie McGrath, who met her brother’s killer face-to-face, told him everything he’d done to her and her family, and found freedom from her consuming rage.
  • “She said that she had put everything that he did to her in a suitcase and left it at his feet. And it was his. And after that, she was free.” (Julia Baird, 16:51)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “He found that the most common experience of [awe] was actually seeing it in another person…acts of moral beauty, of great courage, generosity, decency...”
  — Julia Baird [08:00]

• “It's the sense of self and the empathy and the forgiveness…this person who humiliated me…is the right man for this thing.”
  — Ryan Holiday [09:24]

• “Grace is done...nothing you've done. You've done nothing to deserve it.”
  — Julia Baird [11:55]

• “You forgiving the person is not mutually exclusive with them being held accountable for that thing…”
  — Ryan Holiday [14:08]

• “Forgiveness can sometimes be cutting ties and walking away from.”
  — Julia Baird [13:04]

• “She said that she had put everything that he did to her in a suitcase and left it at his feet. And it was his. And after that, she was free.”
  — Julia Baird [16:51]

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 02:08 – On doing good as a path to feeling good
• 07:32 – Dacher Keltner’s study on awe and moral beauty
• 09:24 – Lincoln’s forgiveness and the true test of grace
• 11:22 – The difficulty and daily practice of real forgiveness
• 13:04 – Forgiveness vs. enabling harm in abuse contexts
• 14:08 – The distinction between personal forgiveness and justice
• 15:14 – Restorative justice: healing through recognition
• 16:51 – Debbie McGrath’s powerful story of letting go

Takeaway

This episode urges listeners to reflect on the transforming power of grace and forgiveness—not as easy virtues, but as deep practices that shape us and our communities. Through historical examples, psychological insights, and real-world stories, Ryan and Julia illustrate how grace can awe, liberate, and inspire, especially when extended where it is least deserved. The message is clear: practice generosity, harness your ability to forgive, and remember that grace is often the hardest—and most powerful—thing you can give.

Recommended Reading:

• Julia Baird, Bright Shining: How Grace Changes Everything
• Julia Baird, Phosphorescence
• Julia Baird, Victoria: The Queen

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www.dailystoic.com/feeding