It’s Mostly Froth And Bubble | Ask Daily Stoic

Summary

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The Daily Stoic: It’s Mostly Froth And Bubble | Ask Daily Stoic

Host: Ryan Holiday
Date: November 20, 2025
Format: Reflection + Audience Q&A

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Main Theme

This episode centers on the idea that much of what absorbs our lives is "froth and bubble"—trivialities, distractions, and superficial pursuits that mask what's meaningful. Ryan Holiday opens with meditations on Stoic clarity and perspective, drawing on Marcus Aurelius’ contempt for the busywork and drama of everyday existence. The episode moves into a live Q&A from a Vermont talk, where Ryan discusses his writing process, the challenge of meaningful communication in a noisy world, and how the lessons of Stoicism and storytelling inform his approach to life, work, and parenting.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Opening Reflection: Life’s “Froth and Bubble”

• Trivialities vs. Substance:
  Ryan opens with a meditation on how much of modern life is filled with superficial distractions:

  “Awards and advertisements, celebrity scandals and local gossip. Silly worries and petty rivalries, people arguing for no reason, people trying to accumulate more than they could ever need. This is what we do, isn’t it? What we’ve always done.” [00:17]

• Stoic Dismissal of Trivialities:
  Drawing on Marcus Aurelius, he likens society’s obsessions to "a bone flung to pet poodles, a little food in the fish tank, the miserable servitude of ants, the scampering of frightened mice, puppets jerked on strings."

  “Too much of life is froth and bubble. Too much of it is servitude and stupidity, being jerked around like a puppet.” [01:43]

• Wake-Up Call:
  In true Stoic fashion, Ryan urges listeners to cut through distractions and focus on what matters:

  “You are better than that. Time is too short for that. Wake up, stop it. Show up, be the person philosophy tried to make you see what it tried to show you.” [02:06]

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2. Behind the Scenes and Transition to Q&A

• Personal Anecdotes:
  Ryan mentions visiting Vermont for a talk, observing life with his children, and the interruptions of parenting—emphasizing the blend of everyday life with philosophical practice.

  • Humorous moment: “And now my kids are bursting in... I just picked the kids up from school and they are running around before we go to Jiu Jitsu.” [03:26]

• Setting for Q&A:
  Ryan’s talk at the Exit 5 community (for B2B marketers), focusing on how he built an audience and spread Stoic philosophy.

  • “I didn’t talk about stoicism so much as I talked about how I was able to take an obscure school of philosophy and build it into something.” [05:43]

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3. Audience Q&A: Stoicism, Storytelling, Marketing, and Writing

a. On Media Manipulation and “Using the System for Good”

• Intersection of Manipulation and Morality:
  Audience member (a former teacher) references Ryan’s books Conspiracy and Trust Me, I’m Lying, asking about ethical tactics in marketing:

  “Is there parts of that that you still see we can use for good today in marketing?” [07:29]

  • Ryan’s Response:

    • The attention economy is a “knife fight.” Just having a "cool cause" isn’t enough—understanding the machinery of attention is vital.

    • Asserts the need for awareness:

      “...There are a lot of forces and a lot of sort of bad actors involved in that system... My argument was like, you got to figure out how this system works because the fact that you have a cool cause or even a great product is not sufficient to break through...” [07:49]

    • In today’s world of AI and content glut, authentic messages struggle even more for attention:

      "In a world of AI, it’s only going to be more difficult... there’s endless amounts of slop that you’re competing with." [09:19]

b. On Editing and the Writing Process

• Knowing When Editing is Done:

  Q: “How do you know when the editing is done?” [09:37]

  • Ryan’s Process:
    • Emphasizes that editing is ongoing—even in the audiobook studio, he’s making changes.
    • Reveals tangible sacrifices for clarity and quality:

      "I had to cut 20,000 words out of [my new book]... that was the hardest and most visible of the edits." [10:10]

    • On perpetual refinement:

      “There’s still stuff I’m adding and changing as it goes. So it’s not that it never stops...” [10:56]

c. On Ideation, Storytelling, and Format

• How Stories Drive Engagement:

  • Stories, parables, and anecdotes are how people learn and what sticks:

    “Stories, parables, anecdotes, this is how we learn, this is what stays with us... You always show, don’t tell.” [11:49]

  • Modular stories can adapt across media (book, TikTok, talk):

    "...I might write a 5,000 word story in a book and then that story can be condensed down into a 30 second TikTok... So the things are modular and I kind of move them around." [12:58]

• On the Daily Dad Project:

  • Uses the “page-a-day” format to cultivate practical wisdom for parents.

    “It’s just stories that sort of illustrate the lessons that I think we all want to embody as parents.” [13:42]

d. On Productivity, Sourcing Ideas, and Daily Practice

• Wide Reading and Note-Taking:

  • Finds the best material when not specifically searching; draws from novels and “weird history books.”

    “I tend to find the best stuff when I’m not looking for it. So, you know, I find stuff in novels, I find stuff in weird history books. I’m just reading where my interests take me.” [15:30]

• Active, Physical Process:

  • Prefers physical books, using note cards and hand-written notes to aid recall.

    “For me, it’s the process of taking the notes and recording it and transferring it that allows me to develop the recall that I need to actually be able to use it at some time.” [16:20]

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Distraction:

  "Too much of life is froth and bubble. Too much of it is servitude and stupidity, being jerked around like a puppet. You are better than that. Time is too short for that." — Ryan Holiday [01:43]

• On the Reality of Writing:

  "Editing is this ongoing thing...There’s still stuff I’m adding and changing as it goes. So it’s not that it never stops, but I do think in a world where I could edit the ebook tomorrow, if there’s something I want to change, I’m going to keep changing it." — Ryan Holiday [10:56]

• On Telling vs. Showing:

  "The writing rule is you always show, don’t tell. And so I’m not saying here’s a logical proof for why this is true. I’m saying let me show you what this looks like in practice." — Ryan Holiday [11:56]

• On Content Adaptation:

  "What I like about being sort of story based is then it’s very translatable to all these other mediums...the things are modular and I kind of move them around." — Ryan Holiday [12:58]

• About Parenting Projects:

  “But I think about it as like, am I going to get better for doing the project? That’s one of my sort of things.” — Ryan Holiday [13:58]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-------------|----------------------------------------------------------| | 00:05–02:20 | Stoic meditation: “It’s mostly froth and bubble” | | 03:26–05:40 | Personal anecdotes, parenting interruptions, Vermont talk| | 07:29–09:29 | Audience Q: Media manipulation and marketing ethics | | 09:32–11:56 | Audience Q: Writing, editing, never-ending process | | 11:57–13:40 | Audience Q: Storytelling, modularity, Daily Dad project | | 15:07–16:35 | Reading habits, note taking, idea sourcing |

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Conclusion

This episode of The Daily Stoic, blending philosophical reflection and candid Q&A, reinforces the power of Stoic perspective in cutting through life's distractions. Ryan Holiday shares practical wisdom for writers, creators, and parents—reminding us to focus on substance over surface, to understand and adapt to the realities of attention in the digital age, and to keep refining both our craft and our character.

For more: Visit dailystoic.com

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast where each day we bring you a stoic inspired meditation designed to help you find strength and insight and wisdom into everyday life. Each one of these episodes is Based on the 2000 year old philosophy that has guided some of history's greatest men and women to help you learn from them, to follow in their example, and to start your day off with a little dose of courage and discipline and justice and wisdom. For more, visit Dailystoic.com. It's mostly froth and bubble. Awards and advertisements, celebrity scandals and local gossip. Silly worries and petty rivalries, people arguing for no reason, people trying to accumulate more than they could ever need. This is what we do, isn't it? What we've always done. In one of the more cynical passages of Meditations, Marcus Aurelius describes life in Rome as a pointless bustling of processions, operas, herds of sheep and cattle, military exerc exercises, a bone flung to pet poodles, a little food in the fish tank, the miserable servitude of ants, the scampering of frightened mice, puppets jerked on strings. We fight over things. We entertain ourselves with trivialities. We miss the point. We waste this thing called existence, led by our perceptions, our insecurities, our fears. Stoicism is supposed to be a dash of clarity. It's a hard dose of perspective. It's what Marcus was doing in that passage, contemptuously dismissing so much of what people take for granted, trying, as he said later in Meditations, to strip things of the legend that encrusts them. Too much of life is froth and bubble. Too much of it is servitude and stupidity, being jerked around like a puppet. You are better than that. Time is too short for that. Wake up, stop it. Show up, be the person philosophy tried to make you see what it tried to show you. I'm recording this on a Monday and Monday is our grocery store day. In our family. I usually pick my kids up from school and we go over to Whole Foods get all our groceries for the week. Although here very shortly we're going to go over there to get our Thanksgiving turkey because they've got a bunch of great options. Turkeys start at 1.49a pound if you have prime with organic birds at $2.99 a pound and they only carry no antibiotic ever. Turkeys that will bring quality to your table at a great price. Whole Foods has great everyday prices on all your Thanksgiving essentials, whether you celebrate with a massive family or just a few close friends and everything they sell has high standards to Help you shop with confidence. Enjoy so many ways to save on your Thanksgiving spread. At Whole Foods Market, it's time for Black Friday. Dell Technologies biggest sale of the year. That's right. You'll find huge savings on select Dell PCs like the Dell 16 plus with the Intel Core Ultra processor and with built in advanced AI features, it's the PC that helps you do more faster. From smarter multitasking to extended battery life, these PCs will get the busy work done so you can focus on what matters matters to you. Plus you can earn Dell rewards and many other benefits like free shipping, expert support, price match guarantee and flexible financing options. And they have the biggest deals on accessories that pair perfectly with your Dell PC, improving the way you work, play and connect. Whether you just started your holiday shopping or you're finishing up, these PCs and accessories will make the perfect gifts for everyone on your list. Shop [e-mail] deals and don't miss out. That's Dell.com deals foreign. Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic podcast. Weirdly, I'd never been to Vermont before until September. I landed, I think in Boston and I drove up to Burlington. It was lovely. Had a great run there. I went and I saw the world's tallest filing cabinet, which I will say something was disappointing. I just saying if you had to guess how tall the world's tallest filing cabinet was, just a bunch of filing cabinets stacked together. I'd hope it'd be more than like 10. I think it was like 8, but I would, I would have guessed It'd be like 30. And now my kids are bursting in. What are you doing, boy? Are you guys playing hide and seek? Okay, he's not in here. I will tell you if he hides in here. Shut the door. I'm recording something. Okay, love you, buddy. You didn't shut the door. Shut the door. So that's what I'm dealing with. I just picked the kids up from school and they are running around before we go to Jiu Jitsu. In any case, had a lovely time in Vermont. Much colder there then in September than it is now in Texas. I think it was like 85 today. What does this have to do with today's episode? I was doing a talk in Vermont to this group called Exit 5, which is a membership community place for B2B marketers to get together. It's a lovely chat. I didn't talk about stoicism so much.

[B]

As I talked about how I was.

[A]

Able to take a obscure school of ancient philosophy and build it into something which was always lovely to talk about. I was talking about more or less the ideas in Perennial Cellar. In any case, afterwards I got to answer some questions, a lot of which were about stoicism. So I'm going to bring you that for today's Q and A. In related news, I'm going to be in Seattle on December 3rd giving a talk much more about stoicism. But you can ask me questions about anything you want there in the Q and A or at the vip. I think there's a few tickets left to that and then I will be in San Diego and Phoenix in February. You can grab tickets to all of those before they sell [e-mail] thanks to Dave, the founder and CEO of Exit 5. He was a big Daily Stoic fan. He said he gifted it to many people, including friends and family, which was very cool to hear and I appreciate him inviting me. Got another child interruption. What's up buddy? Are you locking the door? That's smart. I will tell him I haven't seen you so I'm going to get to this game of hide and seek. In the meantime, I hope to see you in Seattle, Phoenix and San Diego. Dailystoiclive.com Enjoy this episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast.

[B]

I used to be a high school teacher and I had a really big responsibility in a school in the south side of Chicago to get kids to believe in themselves. When I get emotional talking about this, I decided to crowdsource on donorschoose classroom setup obstacles and wait for the yeah, I cold emailed you. You funded like 200 bucks today and then tweeted it and it was funded.

[A]

In like three minutes. Oh, that's so awesome.

[B]

So here's something I've been thinking about. I want to keep it related to marketing because otherwise I'm going to ask about Conspiracy, which is one of my favorite books.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But trust me, I'm Lying was the first book I read of yours. I still think it holds true quite a bit, unfortunately.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

What do you see the intersection between conspiracy, that conspiracy you pose. Like what if we use this for good? Yes. What about trusting and lying? Is there parts of that that you still see we can use for good today in marketing?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I wrote a book, my first book, as I was saying, which came out in 2011. It's basically about sort of how the media system and marketing can be manipulated and how sort of the things that we find out about, like what's going on behind the curtain? Why do we hear about some things and not other things. Basically, my argument is it's sort of a knife fight for attention, attention being the scarce resource in this world, and that there are a lot of forces and a lot of sort of bad actors involved in that system and that my argument was like, you got to figure out how this system works because the fact that you have a cool cause or even a great product is not sufficient to break through when you're up against these sort of better funded or better organized groups and interests. So I think, how do you actually break through? What are you willing to do to break through? To me, that's kind of the lesson of that book. And I think we're watching too many people just presume that because their heart's in the right place or presume because.

[A]

Most reasonable people would agree with what.

[B]

They'Re saying, that that message is going to get out, and that's not how it works. It's much more complicated than that. And I do think you got to take the time to figure out how the system works, particularly if you have something that's actually worth seeing and hearing about. And I think in a world of AI, it's only going to be more difficult just because there's endless amounts of slop that you're competing with.

[A]

Hey, Ryan. Hi.

[B]

Thanks for coming out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

After you're done writing your first draft, I imagine you go through an editing process.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

How do you know when the editing is done?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

He's a writer, by the way.

[A]

Okay. Lovely. Yeah.

[B]

In Perennial Cellar, I sort of split it.

[A]

There's like.

[B]

I feel like there's four phases. There's sort of writing and there's editing and refining and crafting, and then there's the marketing, and then there's the kind of this other stuff we're talking about as far as platform. All the stuff that sort of comes about towards the end. I think the editing phase is probably the most important and in many ways the book that I have coming out in October, I had to cut 20,000 words out of it. And that was the hardest and most visible of the edits. But I just finished the audiobook and I was, much to the chagrin of my publisher, even editing as I was doing it, because now I'm having to read it out loud in a studio by myself. And there's just stuff that on the page seemed fine, but I just. Oh, I said this word three times on the same page. And when I was editing it in Microsoft Word nine months ago, those words weren't on the same page just because the layout's compressed and moves stuff around. So I think editing is this ongoing thing. And as I said, I just had this weird experience doing the 10 year anniversary I'm going to do a 15 year anniversary of Trust me, I'm lying. There's still stuff I'm adding and changing as it goes. So it's not that it never stops, but I do think in a world where I could edit the ebook tomorrow, if there's something I want to change, I'm going to keep changing it. But to me, you do your draft. As they say, the first draft is just for you and then once you finish now you have to start to take a bunch of other considerations into consideration. Everything from like what am I legally allowed to say here? To you know, who am I really trying to get this to land to with. And all of that is the, yeah, a painful but necessary part of the process. Looking at your list of books right now, like the one question comes to mind for me is what is your ideation process? Like how do you write such great stories that keep your audience engaged without being a boomboom? Broken record. Yeah, look, I started as a research assistant. I was a research assistant for this writer named Robert Greene. And his books are primarily story based. And I do think stories, parables, anecdotes, this is how we learn, this is what stays with us. So I tend to always be looking for stories and I have a whole method that I sort of read, synthesize, record process stories. And then as I'm writing a book, I'm sort of moving and plugging around. I showed you my note cards, I do all that, but I usually have the idea for what I want to say, the argument. And then what I'm looking for are stories that illustrate that idea. So the writing rule is you always show, don't tell. And so I'm not saying here's a logical proof for why this is true. I'm saying let me show you what this is looks like in practice. Let me show you someone violating the idea or observing the idea or proving it in some way. That's kind of how I think about it. But stories, not just do I think stories make for compelling reading. But then what I like about being sort of story based is then it's very translatable to all these other mediums. So I might write a 5,000 word story in a book and then that story can be condensed down into a 30 second TikTok. It can be a 30 minute YouTube video, it could be a 5 minute section in an hour, talk. And so the things are modular and I kind of move them around. I'm curious about your distribution when you talk about how much content you distribute and how that works in the team. But also as a dad, curious about the motivation behind Daily Dad. Yeah, I'm a big believer in the sort of page a day format, which I didn't really know that much about before I wrote the Daily Stoic. But I've gotten so much out of sort of having the surface, like one idea or one thing to think about each day. So Daily Stoke came out in 2016. Daily dad came out two years ago. It's just stories that sort of illustrate the lessons that I think we all want to embody as parents. And so. But I think about it as like, am I going to get better for doing the project? That's one of my sort of of things. So the Daily Dat book is also a Daily dad email that goes out every day. It's DailyDat.com and the process of like, hey, what's something to meditate on? What's something to think about? That's kind of how that is. And yeah, there's a team. I write all the stuff, but then people are just like, I don't do the Spanish translation of my books. Someone helps me translate that into, okay.

[A]

Here'S, as I said, here's the tip.

[B]

TikTok version of this and here's the YouTube version of this and the Instagram version of this, the tweet version of this. So how do we take this sort of core idea of what I'm saying and then find ways to reach people in all the different mediums that they're consuming content. Like me, when I want to learn about something, I read a book that's my medium, but that's not the dominant cultural medium these days. And so I think I spend a lot of time trying to take what I do and make it work, work for wherever there's people. And then the idea is that sort of funnels back ultimately to the books, which is where I spend most of my effort. You kind of touched on it a.

[A]

Little bit on the distribution side, but.

[B]

To zoom in a little bit more on your process for sourcing ideas, like all over the place from books and conversations, you're doing whatever. And then your daily practice for maintaining that ability to do it for 15 plus years daily, being unbelievably prolific. What does that look like when you actually sit down to write or do it?

[A]

Do the thing.

[B]

Yeah, so I'm Reading widely. And I tend to find the best stuff when I'm not looking for it. So, you know, I find stuff in novels, I find stuff in weird history books. I'm just reading where my interests take me. But it's like I'm kind of using the confirmation bias to my advantage, like, oh, that connects here. Oh, that's related to this.

[A]

Oh, that.

[B]

I was just thinking about something in this story that I'm reading. This three sentence anecdote in a history book happens to maybe illustrate that idea. Now I need to go dive deeper into that and find out is it actually an illustration of what I'm talking about or just a coincidence. And so, yeah, kind of read widely and then, yeah, I'm just always doing it. I obviously have the advantage, that's my job, to read and find stories. But I really love doing it. It's what I would be doing. It's what I was doing when I had my marketing career is that I love to read, I love history, I love nerding out about stuff and I try to find just stuff that I haven't heard of. So that sort of curiosity is driving you. And yeah, you never know what you're going to end up finding. But you need to have a process. I think the reason I tend to read physical books instead of e books and audiobooks, although I don't begrudge anyone that consumes in any medium they like, is that I don't want it to just go into some black hole somewhere. For me, it's the process of taking the notes and recording it and transferring it that allows me to develop the recall that I need to actually be able to use it at some time. I don't think Evernote exists anymore, but people are like, I have that in Evernote somewhere. And it's like, okay, but you don't actually have it. So for me, it's that process of finding, recording and then applying is really where it's about.

[A]

Hey, it's Ryan. Thank you for listening to the Daily Stoic podcast. I just wanted to say we so appreciate it.

[B]

We love serving you.

[A]

It's amazing to us that over 30 million people have downloaded these episodes in the couple years we've been doing it. It's an honor. Please spread the word, tell people about it. And this isn't to sell anything. I just wanted to say thank you.

[B]

What do you think makes the perfect snack?

[C]

Hmm, it's gotta be when I'm really craving it and it's convenient.

[B]

Could you be more specific?

[C]

When it's cravinient okay, like a freshly baked cookie made with real butter, available right down the street at am, pm. Or a savory breakfast sandwich I can grab in just a second at am, pm.

[A]

I'm seeing a pattern here.

[C]

Well, yeah, we're talking about what I.

[A]

Crave, which is anything from am, pm.

[C]

What more could you want? Stop by AM pm where the snacks and drinks are perfectly craveable and convenient. That's cravenience am, pm. Too much good stuff.

[A]

Look, ads are annoying. They are to be avoided if at all possible. I understand as a content creator why they need to exist. That's why I don't begrudge them when they appear on the shows that I listen to. But again, as a person who has to pay a podcast producer and has to pay for equipment and for the studio and the building that the studio is in, it's a lot to keep something like the Daily Stoic going. So if you want to support a show but not listen to ads, well, we have partnered with Supercast to bring you a ad free version of Daily Stoic, calling it Daily Stoic Premium. And with Premium, you can listen to every episode of the Daily Stoic podcast completely ad free. No interruptions, just the ideas, just the messages, just the conversations you came here for. And you can also get early access to episodes before they're available to the public. And we're gonna have a bunch of exclusive bonus content and extended interviews in there just for Daily Stoic Premium members as well. If you wanna remove distractions, go deeper into Stoicism and support the work we do here. Well, it takes less than a minute to sign up for Daily Stoic Premium and we are offering a limited time discount of 20% off your first year. Just go to Dailystoic.com premium to sign up right now or click the link in the show descriptions to make those ads go away.