They Should Have What They Want

Summary

The Daily Stoic Podcast — “They Should Have What They Want”
Host: Ryan Holiday with Stephen Hanselman
Date: March 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this contemplative episode of The Daily Stoic, Ryan Holiday and Stephen Hanselman discuss the timeless Stoic lesson that pursuing external desires rarely brings true satisfaction. The conversation centers on the wisdom of letting others seek what they think they want, reflecting on why external achievements so often fail to deliver happiness. Drawing inspiration from historic figures like Cato the Younger—and their role as moral exemplars—Holiday and Hanselman urge listeners to adopt their own personal models for virtue and to strive for internal fulfillment rather than external validation.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Paradox of Getting What We Want

• Main Idea: Achieving external goals and desires rarely provides the lasting satisfaction people expect.
  • Ryan Holiday (00:00): “They should have what they want. It's probably not going to be what they hope. It's not going to feel as they dreamed. It's not going to make them happy. It's not going to satisfy them. It rarely does, right?”
• Many historical figures, from conquerors to writers, have been unsatisfied even after great achievements.
  • Ryan Holiday (00:28): “Has any conqueror ever been satisfied?... How often do any of the things that people dream of and lust for and fight over end up producing happiness? The Stoics knew this, and deep down, we do too.”

2. Focus on Your Own Desires and Attachments

• Instead of judging or interfering with others' pursuits, return attention to our own attachments to “externals.”
  • Ryan Holiday (00:38): “It's not our place to yuck other people's yums. It's not our place to judge. It's not our place to interfere. What we should focus on is where we are lusting and dreaming and fighting for so-called externals.”
• Holiday suggests reflecting on where we've made our happiness conditional on achievements or identities outside our control.

3. The Role of Exemplars: “Find yourself a Cato” (04:03)

• Hanselman introduces Seneca’s advice to have a moral exemplar (“Cato”) in mind to guide decisions.
  • Stephen Hanselman (04:29): “The soul should have someone it can respect by whose example it can make its inner sanctum more inviolable. Happy is the person who can improve others, not only when present, but even when in their thoughts.”
• Cato the Younger serves as a historic Stoic model—though he left behind no writings, his example influenced generations.
• Modern parallels: Adam Smith’s “impartial spectator,” cartoon “angel on the shoulder,” or the “What Would Jesus Do?” bracelet.

4. Using Exemplars as a Practical Tool

• Having a mental model or hero can elevate everyday choices.
  • Stephen Hanselman (06:45): “Who is your hero and what decisions would they make in those situations?... So not like, what would you allow yourself to get away with, but what would so and so expect of you in this situation?”
• Example: John Wooden’s poem “A little fellow follows you,” invoking behavior as if children—or anyone—were watching.
• Important insight: Living so well that others may one day take you as their Cato.

5. Striving for Exemplary Living

• Challenge yourself with the question, “Who do I want to be?” and act as that person would.
  • Stephen Hanselman (08:00): “Who am I aspiring to be? And what would that person do in this situation? Would they take the shortcut?...”
• Ryan and Stephen encourage listeners to set high standards and pursue virtue, influencing others through example.
  • Stephen Hanselman (08:30): “Washington built his whole life around living up to the example of Cato. And he didn't always get there, but he pushed himself to get there.”

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Memorable Quotes

• Ryan Holiday (00:00): “They should have what they want. It's probably not going to be what they hope. It's not going to feel as they dreamed. It's not going to make them happy.”
• Stephen Hanselman (04:29): “The soul should have someone it can respect by whose example it can make its inner sanctum more inviolable. Happy is the person who can improve others, not only when present, but even when in their thoughts.”
• Stephen Hanselman (07:45): “Perhaps we too can, can later serve as someone else's cato or a spectator when someone else needs it.”
• Stephen Hanselman (08:00): “Who am I aspiring to be? And what would that person do in this situation?”

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Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Summary | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Introduction; the emptiness of external achievements | | 00:26 | Reflection on conquerors and the pursuit of happiness | | 00:38 | The importance of self-reflection rather than judging others | | 04:03 | “Find yourself a Cato”—the value of having a moral exemplar | | 04:29 | Seneca’s advice; Cato’s influence; Adam Smith's impartial spectator | | 06:45 | Practical application: acting as if one’s hero is watching | | 07:59 | Internalizing your chosen exemplar for personal growth | | 08:30 | George Washington’s admiration of Cato and striving to embody high standards |

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Overall Tone and Style

The tone is introspective, encouraging, and practical—imbued with a gentle, conversational wisdom. Ryan and Stephen balance historical references with actionable takeaways, inviting listeners to higher standards not with severity, but with warm, supportive guidance.

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Takeaways for Listeners

• Pursue contentment with what you have, recognizing the emptiness of chasing externals.
• Choose a moral exemplar—ancient or personal—to hold yourself to a higher standard.
• Strive to live in a way that sets a virtuous example for others.
• Reflect on your own life and ambitions rather than judging the pursuits of others.

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In essence: “They Should Have What They Want” is a reminder that external goals are fleeting, and that the Stoic way is to cultivate internal virtue by following the example of great figures—or by living so well that you become such an example for others.

Transcript

[Ryan Holiday]

Welcome to the daily Stoic podcast, designed to help bring those four key Stoic virtues, courage, discipline, justice, and wisdom, into the real world. They should have what they want. It's probably not going to be what they hope. It's not going to feel as they dreamed. It's not going to make them happy. It's not going to satisfy them. It rarely does, right?

[Stephen Hanselman]

Historically, that is.

[Ryan Holiday]

Has any conqueror ever been satisfied? Has any conquest ever not been a little bittersweet, a little underwhelming? How often do any of the things that people dream of and lust for and fight over end up producing happiness? The Stoics knew this, and deep down, we do too. Even if we lose sight of it time and time again. So we must step back and let people choose for themselves. We should repeat to ourselves as Taylor Swift says, Because it's not our place to yuck other people's yums. It's not our place to judge. It's not our place to interfere. What we should focus on is where we are lusting and dreaming and fighting for so called externals. We should think about where we have made our happiness conditional on this or that achievement, on this or that identity which lies outside our control. We should remind ourselves that we have plenty right now that we can feel good, feel enough right now. If you're selling online or out of a storefront full time, or a side hustle, you know, it's a challenge. People gotta find you. You gotta wait for them to walk in. Well, today's sponsor, Whatnot, flips that. On whatnot, you go live and sell directly to people in real. They see what you got, they ask questions and they buy. And you know what? They keep coming back. Whatnot is the largest dedicated live shopping platform. Whether it's beauty, collectibles, electronics, luxury, fashion, even cookies, sellers are building real thriving businesses on whatnot. Whatnot. Buyers spend more than an hour a day on the app. And they're not just browsing, they're bidding and buying and coming back so you can go live, show off your projects and turn that into real income. People selling on whatnot sell 10 times more than on other major marketplaces. And that's because you're not just listing products, you're building real connections with buyers. Limited time. Whatnot will match your first $150 sold in the first month. You just got to visit whatnot.com sell to startselling W-H-A-T-N-O-T.com sell whatnot.com sell. I know it's not good for me to just run. I need it for my mental health, but it takes a toll on me physically and I need to mix it up. So one of the things I'm trying to work on this year is doing more diverse kinds of workouts and specifically doing more strength training. And that's where today's sponsor comes in. Tonal provides the convenience of a full gym and the guidance of a personal trainer anytime at home with their one sleek system. Designed to reduce your mental load, Tonal is the ultimate strength training system, helping you focus less on workout planning and more on getting results. Plus, there's no more second guessing on your form. Tonal gives you real time coaching cues to dial in your form, which I need a lot of help on, and it helps you lift safely and effectively. Plus, Tonal sets the optimal weight for every move and then adjusts it, makes it a tiny bit harder each time in one pound increments as you go and as you get stronger. Right? So you're always challenged, which is one of the other things, right? We get in our rut. Even though we're doing something positive, we're doing it in a way that's actually getting progressively easier instead of progressively harder. So right now Tonal is offering our listeners 200 bucks off your Tonal purchase with promo code TDS, that's Tonal.com and use promo code TDS for 200 bucks off your purchase. That's Tonal.com promo code TDS for $200 off

[Stephen Hanselman]

find yourself a Cato Today's entry from The Daily Stoic.

[Ryan Holiday]

366 Meditations on Wisdom, Perseverance and the art of living. You can check out the leather [e-mail] leather or if you just want the cloth bound lay flat version, the standard hardcover. You can pick that up anywhere books are sold and [e-mail] and I'll sign your edition as well.

[Stephen Hanselman]

We can remove most sins if we have a witness standing by as we are about to go wrong. The soul should have someone it can respect by whose example it can make its inner sanctum more inviolable. Happy is the person who can improve others, not only when present, but even when in their thoughts. Seneca's moral letters 119 Cato the Younger, a Roman politician best known for his self discipline and his heroic defense of the Republic against Julius Caesar, appears constantly throughout the Stoic literature. Which is interesting because he didn't write anything down. He taught no classes, he gave no interviews. It was his bold and brave example that made him such a commonly cited and quoted philosopher. Seneca tells us that we should each have our own cato, a great and noble person we can allow into our minds and used to guide our actions even when they're not physically present. The economist Adam Smith had a similar concept which he called the impartial spectator. It doesn't have to be an actual person, just someone who, like Seneca said, can stand by and witness our behavior. Someone who can quietly admonish us if we are considering doing something lazy, dishonest or selfish. And if we do it right and live our lives in such a way, perhaps we too can, can later serve as someone else's cato or a spectator when someone else needs it. The line from Adam Smith is in the wonderful book by my friend Russ Roberts, which you should check out. It's called Adam Smith Can Change youe Life. We carry it at the Painted Porch. It's a must read. But it's like, you know, in the cartoons, there's the angel on the shoulder and the devil on the shoulder, and who are you going to listen to? Or if you remember those bracelets, what would Jesus do, Right? The idea is to have that person in your mind, whether it's Cato or Marcus Aurelius or your grandfather or Abraham Lincoln or Harriet Tubman or whoever it is for you. Who is your hero and what decisions would they make in those situations? When I interviewed Annie Duke for the Leadership Challenge, she was talking about, like, getting to the outside of a problem, right? When you're in it, when it's you, you can get tied up in what you want to do or what your impulses say, or what's easiest, but you want to get to the outside of the problem. And this idea of the spectator or the cato or the hero, it allows you to think about it from someone else's perspective. So not like, what would you allow yourself to get away with, but what would so and so expect of you in this situation? The other version you can think about this is like, what would you do if your kids were watching, if they understood John Wooden was fond of a poem and the line said, a little fellow follows you? And this is a similar idea, right? What would you do if your kids were watching? What would you do if anyone was watching, but allowing those standards to hold you to a higher standard than you might otherwise let yourself get away with? But then I think this is really the important part, this last sentence about if we do it right, if we live our lives right, perhaps we could be that way. So Remember, stoicism is about putting your own spin on. It's about being the ideas. I think getting to a place where you yourself have lived your life in such a way, produced work in such a way, made brave or virtuous decisions in such a way that you yourself can serve as a model for other people, Right? So maybe even using that as your own standard, who do I want to be?

[Ryan Holiday]

Right?

[Stephen Hanselman]

Who am I aspiring to be? And what would that person do in this situation? Would they take the shortcut? Would they phone it in? Would they do the expedient thing? Would they do the short term thing? You know, what would they do? And pushing yourself to be that person. That's, to me, what stoicism is about. Again, the example of Cato is so inspiring because for literally hundreds of years, Cato was that example. Cato was that for Thracia and for Seneca, for countless stoics on down, Cato was the inspiring example. When I had Tom Ricks on the podcast, who's another great book, I highly recommend First Principles, which we also sell in the bookstore. Cato was Washington's Cato. Washington built his whole life around living up to the example of Cato. And he didn't always get there, but he pushed himself to get there. And so again, try to find that towering example. That's the first part. And let them guide your behavior. Let them call you, hold you accountable to what you're capable of being, and then strive to be that in such a way that you yourself, for your children, for your colleagues, for your neighbor, for whomever you yourself can serve as a kind of example for them.

[Ryan Holiday]

Hey, it's Ryan. Thank you for listening to the Daily Stoic podcast. I just wanted to say we so appreciate it.

[Stephen Hanselman]

We love serving you.

[Ryan Holiday]

It's amazing to us that over 30 million people have downloaded these episodes in the couple years we've been doing it.

[Stephen Hanselman]

It's an honor. Please spread the word, tell people about it.

[Ryan Holiday]

And this isn't to sell anything. I just wanted to say thank you.

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