The Daily Stoic Podcast: “You’re Addicted To The Illusion of Control” | Sebastian Junger (Part 1)

Date: November 26, 2025
Host: Ryan Holiday
Guest: Sebastian Junger (author, journalist, filmmaker)

Episode Overview

This episode features a rich, philosophical conversation between Ryan Holiday and Sebastian Junger, bestselling author and journalist, centered on the Stoic concept of control—and the illusion thereof fostered by modern technology. Junger, who notably avoids owning a smartphone, explores how abandoning constant digital connectivity leads to deeper human engagement, greater creativity, and personal clarity. The conversation ranges across technology’s psychological impacts, historical anecdotes, near-death experiences, the fleetingness of life (memento mori), suffering, parenthood, and literary influences, all underpinned by a Stoic worldview.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Illusion of Control Through Technology

• Sebastian Junger’s Flip Phone Lifestyle

  • Junger only uses a flip phone and has never owned a smartphone.
  • “I can't do all this stuff that everyone gets sucked into. I can't get my email, I can't navigate, I can't book a taxi... I have to do it all myself as a human being.” (07:51)
  • He relies on physical ways of interacting with the world like hailing cabs or asking for directions, embracing minor inconveniences as opportunities for human connection.

• Addiction by Design

  • Junger asserts that smartphones are designed around addiction.
  • “With every other job in the world, you do half the job, you only have half left. With email, you do half the job, you have three quarters left... The less email you do during the day, the less you have to do.” (08:59)
  • He equates constant connectivity to a modern Sisyphean struggle.

• Inconvenience as Opportunity

  • Not knowing immediate answers or directions opens opportunities for spontaneous, meaningful interactions.
  • “For me, an inconvenience is an opportunity... I've just had a little human interaction.” (09:12)

• Technology Increases Anxiety

  • Junger identifies a paradox: while technology seems to grant more control and certainty, it instead heightens stress.
  • “There's a terrible stress of thinking you can control your life to the minute... smartphones increase anxiety by increasing the illusion that you have control. And you don't.” (10:39)

Notable Quote

“At the end of the day, you don’t [have control].” — Sebastian Junger (10:57)

2. Humanity Before Modern Distraction

• Living Without Clocks and Mirrors

  • Junger describes tribal or pre-industrial life as “not knowing exactly what time it is, not knowing what you look like, or exactly how old you are. And that’s freeing.”
  • “The point of life is appreciating the moment with people you love, in safety... The problem with the phone is it deprives us of that.” (11:20–12:10)

• Missing Out Isn’t Missing Anything

  • Holiday and Junger discuss how he sometimes learns about significant events hours later than others—but it never changed the outcome, only their anxiety.
  • “Everyone else knew about this for eight hours…it didn’t change it happening or change what they did about it, but they just carried it for eight more hours than you.” (12:38)

3. Technology, Addiction, and Societal Consequences

• Mental Health Crisis and Social Media

  • Junger links rising rates of anxiety, depression, and suicide to technological over-engagement.
  • He shares an anecdote about observing a young married couple, each watching TikToks separately immediately after landing, lamenting “what are you guys alive for?” (13:37)

• Creativity, Boredom, and Inspiration

  • Junger advocates for idle time (“brain in neutral”), which he finds is fertile ground for creativity.
  • “Those sort of neutral moments are way more productive in some ways…when I’m focused at my desk, that’s forebrain, cognitive. When I’m spacing out…those thoughts are intuitive and powerful.” (15:02)

Notable Quote

“You could endlessly distract yourself with things that don’t matter, that don’t endure, that don’t affect your life… it’s garbage. It’s garbage like fast food is garbage.” — Sebastian Junger (15:33)

• Intentional Consumption and Avoiding Digital Drains

  • Junger doesn’t use devices to listen to music outside the home, preferring to remain situationally aware, especially as a parent in NYC (16:10–16:49).
  • “Music… blunts [awareness]. And particularly with young children, I want to be switched on and observant.” (16:47)

• Practicing Boredom and Deep Focus

  • Junger shares how boredom and a lack of constant stimulation can lead to deeper intellectual and creative pursuits, such as reading or practicing music mentally.
  • “People that practice music in their heads…developed much quicker, much faster.” (22:13)

4. Stoicism, Death, and Meaningful Living

• The Role of Memento Mori
  • Frequent references to Stoic reminders that death could come at any time.
  • Discussing the Dostoevsky mock execution story: in the face of imminent death, Dostoevsky decided to “turn each moment into an eternity.” (41:09)
  • Junger’s near-death experiences led him to question what is truly meaningful to do with his time.

Notable Moment

“Who do you want to be if you know this is your last 24 hours?” — Sebastian Junger (52:14)

“Would you scroll through social media in those last 24 hours? And if you wouldn’t, what the fuck are you doing doing it today? Because you don’t know.” (52:14)

• The Paradox of Time’s Value

  • Holiday and Junger debate whether knowing you have little time left makes it more meaningful or less—ultimately, both agree it should prompt deep focus on what matters.
  • “How do I fit a whole lifetime into today? Because it might be—that actually might turn out to be what happens.” (56:41)

• Parenthood and Presentness

  • Junger cautions against wishing away the difficult parts of parenting for an imagined easier future, at the cost of missing the present joys.
  • “Having an 18-month-old who's colicky and crying all the time—that is enough...just because something's hard doesn't mean you can't take meaning and pleasure out of it.” (58:14)

5. Societal Critique: Tech, Power, and Media

• Tech Execs Protect Their Kids

  • Observations that Silicon Valley elites often ban smartphones at their children’s schools. (26:15)
  • “So, you know, that’s where Congress should…what legislation can we enact that would protect all the nation's children from the toxic effect of these addictions?” (26:29)

• Politics and Social Media

  • Social networks empower polarization and rage to fuel turnout and control.
  • “Social media increases political division and polarity...right now the Republicans particularly are invested in division as a form of political power.” (27:21)

Literary Threads & Notable Influences

• Ambrose Bierce: Stories of war, death, and ambiguous reality (“An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge”), and his tragic fate as a mysterious disappearance/execution in Mexico underscores themes of reality, illusion, and the persistence of trauma.
• Dostoevsky: The transformative experience of facing (mock) execution—time’s elasticity and the import of presentness.
• Seneca and Marcus Aurelius: Stoic roots throughout the discussion (Memento Mori, closing the books on life, living each day as the whole of life).
• Hemingway’s For Whom the Bell Tolls: Compressing a lifetime’s meaning into a single night or moment of clarity.

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• On technology and control:

  “Smartphones increase anxiety by increasing the illusion that you have control… and you don’t.” — Sebastian Junger (10:45)

• On presence and awareness:

  “The point of life is appreciating the moment with people you love, in safety… The problem with the phone is it deprives us of that.” — Sebastian Junger (11:31)

• On meaningful use of time:

  “Would you scroll through social media in those last 24 hours? And if you wouldn’t, what the fuck are you doing doing it today?” — Sebastian Junger (53:16)

• On parenthood:

  “Just because something’s hard doesn’t mean you can’t take meaning and pleasure out of it.” — Sebastian Junger (58:14)

Key Segment Timestamps

• [07:46] — Junger describes his flip phone and daily habits
• [10:39] — Technology's illusion of control and increased stress
• [12:38] — Missing events, carrying less anxiety
• [13:37] — Societal effects of screen addiction observed
• [15:02] — The importance of boredom for creativity
• [22:13] — Practicing skills mentally and the power of idle time
• [41:09] — Dostoevsky’s mock execution and embracing each moment
• [52:14] — "Would you scroll through social media if you knew you had 24 hours to live?"
• [58:14] — On parenting, hardship, and presence

Tone & Language

The conversation is warm, direct, sometimes impassioned, and laced with Junger’s dry wit. Holiday and Junger move fluidly between dense philosophical ideas, sharp social criticism, war stories, and practical advice, all in a style that is deeply accessible yet intellectually rich.

For Listeners

This episode is especially valuable for anyone reflecting on their use of technology, struggling with anxiety or the pursuit of meaning, or seeking to apply Stoic philosophy to modern life. Junger’s life experiences—ranging from war reporting to narrowly surviving a deadly medical emergency—are given as sharp, lived counsel: control is largely an illusion, but meaning is found in presence, acceptance of hardship, and cherishing each fleeting moment.

End of Part 1. (Part 2 to follow in subsequent episodes.)