You’re Never Going to Be Perfect | Ask Daily Stoic

Summary

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The Daily Stoic Podcast

Episode: You’re Never Going to Be Perfect | Ask Daily Stoic
Host: Ryan Holiday
Date: May 21, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Daily Stoic centers on the Stoic approach to self-improvement, perfectionism, and resilience in daily life. Ryan Holiday explores the impossibility of perfection, instead emphasizing continual striving, the virtue of “good” over “perfect,” and drawing on classic Stoic thinkers such as Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus. After a brief monologue, Ryan presents a Q&A drawn from a virtual talk with FBI agents about the real-world application of Stoic principles, addressing topics like controlling reactions, finding stillness, managing difficult conversations, and maintaining work-life balance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Myth of Perfection and the Virtue of Striving

• Striving Over Perfection:
  Ryan opens by highlighting that perfection is unachievable and that even the Stoics, despite holding themselves to high standards, recognized this.

  • “Perfection was not possible. What was possible, Epictetus said, was striving to be better.” (00:38)
  • “What mattered, Marcus really said, was how quickly you picked yourself up after you were jarred by circumstances.” (00:47)

• Humanity and Goodness:
  Citing John Steinbeck’s East of Eden, Ryan stresses the freedom in accepting imperfection.

  • “Now that you know, you don’t have to be perfect, you can be good. … We just have to choose to be good. We have that choice. We can begin again.” (01:22)

• Theme Summary:
  True virtue lies in persistent effort and morality, not flawless execution:

  • “Good is better than perfect because it’s real. Good is better than perfect because it’s human.” (01:35)

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2. Foundational Stoic Principle: Control What You Can

[Q&A Begins – FBI Agent Audience]

a. Controlling Reactions vs. Outcomes

• Stoic Definition:
  “We don’t control what happens in the world, but we control how we respond to what happens in the world, right?” (05:27)

• Examples from Sports and Daily Life:

  • You can control your practice and play, but not external factors like weather, referees, or opinions.
  • “I control my emotions, I control my thoughts, I control the actions that I'm going to take within the constraints of what's been sort of presented.” (05:55)

• Empowerment Through Focus:

  • "Having this more circumscribed notion of what's up to us … it seems limiting, but it's actually really empowering" (06:13)
  • Most people waste energy obsessing over what’s not within their control.

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b. The Necessity of Stillness

• Finding Quiet:
  An FBI agent reflects on church as a rare weekly moment for reflection and mental stillness.

  • “It’s also, you know, depending on where you go to church, usually a building designed to sort of engender that to, to create a sense of awe and wonder. I mean, how rare that silence is." (07:18)
  • Such spaces allow clarity, calm, and access to deeper parts of ourselves.

• Habitual Reflection:

  • “We need to carve out blocks of that because that's where ideas pop into our head. That's where we get clarity, that's where we calm down.” (07:35)

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c. Handling Difficult Conversations as a Leader

• Learning Through Practice:
  Ryan emphasizes embracing uncomfortable leadership challenges—like firing someone or offering tough feedback—as practice for future situations:

  • “The only way to get good at that is by practice doing it. … I just try to remind myself that it’s practice.” (08:14)

• Obstacle Is the Way:

  • “These unpleasant, unchosen undesirable situations are practice for harder things down the road.” (08:39)
  • Resisting avoidance: Instead of hoping problems disappear or delegating tough talks, take them on directly for personal growth.

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d. Work-Life Balance and the Role of Hobbies

• Recognizing Imbalance:
  Hobbies serve as indicators of personal balance.

  • “When you haven’t been able to do those things because you literally haven’t had the time, your work life balance is probably a bit skewed.” (09:58)

• Establishing Non-Negotiables:

  • Suggests making essential self-care activities non-negotiable (e.g., “Once a week I need to be able to do X”).
  • “If I'm sacrificing those things, not doing those things, it's because I become imbalanced." (10:25)

• Balance for Endurance:

  • “If I want to do this thing for a long time, I have to be able to be almost more disciplined about my discipline.” (10:31)
  • References athletes: Overtraining leads to burnout or injury.
  • “I want to be good at this 15, 20, 30 years from now. It requires pacing yourself and having some self control.” (11:27)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Growth Over Perfection:
  “We don’t have to be perfect. We just have to choose to be good.” – Ryan Holiday (01:18)

• On Emotional Focus:
  “Most people spend an inordinate amount of time and energy focused on what other people are saying, what other people are thinking, right? Whose fault it is, right? What it means, right? What caused it. All of this is rejecting the limited agency in front of you.” – Ryan Holiday (06:21)

• On Leadership Practice:
  “When I have to fire my 10th person 20 years from now, I’ll be better for having gone through this.” – Ryan Holiday (08:25)

• On Self-Care as Discipline:
  “It might seem like I’m being respectful to my career, but in fact, if I want to do this thing for a long time, I have to be able to be almost more disciplined about my discipline.” – Ryan Holiday (10:31)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00 – 01:46: Opening Monologue – Perfection vs. Good; embracing humanity and effort
• 05:18 – 06:52: Controlling Reactions vs. Outcomes
• 06:52 – 07:53: Stillness, Silence, and Reflection
• 07:53 – 09:40: Leading Challenging Conversations—Learning From Obstacles
• 09:40 – 11:45: Work-Life Balance, Hobbies, and Longevity in High-Performance Fields

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Tone and Language

The episode maintains a reflective, practical, and relatable tone. Ryan Holiday draws on literary, philosophical, and everyday examples, framing Stoicism as useful for anyone from FBI agents to athletes to parents. His language is down-to-earth and motivational, encouraging listeners to swap harsh self-judgment for self-compassion and steady improvement.

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Summary:
Perfection is an illusion—the Stoic’s real goal is progress, self-control, and resilience. By embracing imperfection, focusing on what we can control, carving time for reflection, bravely facing difficult tasks, and tending to self-care through hobbies, we can live more virtuous and sustainable lives. Good is not only good enough—it’s the path to wisdom, justice, courage, and discipline every day.

Transcript

[Ryan Holiday]

Welcome to the daily Stoic podcast, designed to help bring those four key Stoic virtues, courage, discipline, justice, and wisdom, into the real world. You're never going to be perfect. We have goals, we have standards, we have what we know we need to do, and then discipline. That key Stoic virtue determines whether we do it or not. The problem is that some people seem to think that this discipline must be iron clad. And then they beat themselves when they fall short. The Stoics had high standards, they had important jobs, they had a lot they needed to do. They also understood that perfection was not possible. What was possible, Epictetus said, was striving to be better. What mattered, Marx really said, was how quickly you picked yourself up after you were jarred by circumstances. Sometimes we'll fall short, sometimes we'll have to make an exception. Sometimes we'll just plain forget our training and our standards. But it's like that famous line in Steinbach's east of Eden, which has a bunch of Stoic themes, actually opened the Four Virtues series with a line from that Adam Trask in the book. The character, he's been impossibly hard on himself. He's wracked with guilt, and he's told by the family servant Lee. And now that you know, you don't have to be perfect, you can be good. And that's the point. We don't have to be perfect. We just have to choose to be good. We have that choice. We can begin again. We can still fight through it. Good is better than perfect because it's real. Good is better than perfect because it's human. It's the striving, the effort, the genuine desire to do what's right. Good is what we are, and good is what we have to keep trying to be every day.

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[FBI Agent / Interviewer]

You talked about we can't control our outcomes, but we can control our reactions. As hard as you could talk about that for a couple minutes.

[Ryan Holiday]

To me, that's the definition of stoicism, that we don't control what happens in the world, but we control how we respond to what happens in the world, right? When I talk to sports teams, I say some version of this is like, look, the only thing you control is how you practice and how you play. Everything else is up to someone else. You don't control what the weather of game day is going to be. You don't control whether you start. You don't control whether the coach hates you. You don't what the media is saying about you. You don't control if the refs suck. Right? You don't control any of it. You control what you do on this play right now. Right? You control what you do. So for the stoics, the idea is like, look, I control my emotions, I control my thoughts. I control the actions that I'm going to take within the constraints of what's been sort of presented in front of me, like what the situation is, but that's it. And so having this more circumscribed notion of what's up to us and not up to us, it seems limiting, but it's actually really empowering if you take for granted that most people spend an inordinate amount of time and energy focused on what other people are saying, what other people are thinking, right? Whose fault it is, right? What it means, right? What caused it. All of this is rejecting the limited agency in front of you, which is, you know, what am I going to do right now? What am I going to do about it? So to me, that's what stoicism is. It's this sort of zooming in on what's up to me, and that's where I'm going to focus all my energy and thoughts, because everything else is wasted.

[FBI Agent / Interviewer]

Oh, they joke as you were talking about stillness and I'm Not a particularly religious person, but I go to church pretty much every week and I try to make that a priority for my family. And it occurred to me only recently that that's a space for me where my mind can contemplate things in a way that I don't do all week long.

[Ryan Holiday]

Yes.

[FBI Agent / Interviewer]

And really try to protect that time. And it never really occurred to me why that is until we were just talking. So that's very much that space for me.

[Ryan Holiday]

So no, I, I, I love that. Right. It's a place it's rude to be on your phone. Right. You're not talking, you're just listening. It's also, you know, depending on where you go to church, usually a building designed to sort of engender that to, to create a sense of awe and wonder. I mean, how rare that silence is. And then I think we need to carve out blocks of that because that's where ideas pop into our head. That's where we get clarity, that's where we calm down. I think we need those experiences if we want to access all parts of our toolkit.

[FBI Agent / Interviewer]

So one of the other topics we're going to be discussing later today is typical conversations with people as leaders. Often we have challenging conversations, whether we're talking about some of these performance or on the right. What, how would a stoic approach that, what advice would you have from your study knowledge on those difficult conversations?

[Ryan Holiday]

Well, one of the things I've been thinking about that lately is like, you know, you gotta, let's say you gotta let someone go. You have to give someone some unpleasant feedback, whatever it is. I try to remind myself that the only way to get good at that is by practice doing it. So as much as I would rather not be doing it, I just try to remind myself that it's practice. Right? So I try to go into it going, okay, I've only fired three people in my life. This is the fourth one, right. So when I have to fire my 10th person 20 years from now, I'll be better for having gone through this. To me, that's kind of what the idea of the obstacle is. The way is that these unpleasant, unchosen undesirable situations are practice for harder things down the road. Right? So if we can go into it not being like, oh, I can't believe I have to do this, this sucks, this is unfair. This isn't going to be, this isn't going to be fun. I try to go, okay, I need practice calling up. You know, maybe, maybe for me, it's my publisher I have to call and have a frank conversation with my publisher about, you know, something that's not going well. You know, I could shy away from that. I could see if someone else could do it for me. I could pretend I don't need to do it and just see if it magically resolves itself. Or I can go, okay, tomorrow, I'm picking up the phone and I'm going to do it and I'm going to be better for having done it. That's. That's kind of how I think about those things.

[FBI Agent / Interviewer]

So, Ryan, you talked about the importance of personal hobbies.

[Ryan Holiday]

Yeah.

[FBI Agent / Interviewer]

To work life. I think, at least for me, the work life imbalance creeps up. Onion time. Any thoughts on recognizing the signs that we're not taking the time to reflect and how to make sure we do carve that time out?

[Ryan Holiday]

Yeah, I think those hobbies can kind of be a good canary in the coal mine that you're getting imbalanced. Like, let's say it's, you know, maybe your activities are physical or maybe you like working in your workshop, or you like doing X, Y or Z when you haven't been able to do those things because you literally haven't had the time. Your work life balance is probably a bit skewed. Obviously, all of us at different phases in our careers, different, different jobs, different things, you know, the amount of time or whatever is going to be different, but maybe coming up with some non negotiables, like, hey, once a week I need to be able to do X, or three times a week I need to be able to do Y. If I'm sacrificing those things, not doing those things, it's because I become imbalanced. And that might seem like I'm being respectful to my career, but in fact, if I want to do this thing for a long time, I have to be able to be almost more disciplined about my discipline. You know, we think about great athletes. We have this vision that they just work all the time. You know, it's Kobe Bryant waking up at 4 in the morning or, you know, Tiger woods hitting however many practice shots, whatever that is. But in truth, the number one cause of injury, the number one career ender for professional athletes is over training. Right? They get burned out or they push themselves too far and they, they hurt themselves in a way in which they can't come back. And so, you know, realizing like, hey, I don't just want to be good at this this week, but I want to be good at this 15, 20, 30 years from now. It requires pacing yourself and having some self control. In that sense, foreign.

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