Transcript
Lulu Garcia Navarro (0:00)
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Interview Host (0:37)
From the New York Times, this is the interview.
Rami Youssef (0:40)
I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro.
Interview Host (0:43)
In the trailer for the new animated series Number One, Happy Family usa, there is a tagline that reads from the childhood nightmares of Ramy Youssef. Now, it might sound like a warning, but the show itself is really very funny. It follows the fictional Hussein family as they try to fit into a changing America in the aftermath aftermath of 9 11. And it's punctuated with original songs, irreverent humor, and more than a nod to shows like South Park. Yousef was himself 10 years old when the terrorist attacks happened. Growing up in an Egyptian American family.
Rami Youssef (1:18)
In New Jersey, he often refers to.
Interview Host (1:20)
The dislocation and fear he experienced at that time in a standup comedy and his self titled Hulu Show, Rami. This new series, though, is his biggest attempt yet to examine a period that Yusuf says we're all still grappling with in the Trump era. But when I caught up with him, we began our conversation talking about his move into film after a role in Yorgos Lanthimos. Poor things. He's been cast in a buzzy new HBO movie about billionaires during a financial crisis. Here's my conversation with actor, creator and comedian Rami Youssef.
Rami Youssef (2:02)
How are you?
Rami Youssef (2:03)
I'm really excited to sit down with you.
Rami Youssef (2:05)
Thank you for having me.
Rami Youssef (2:06)
You are in Utah right now, right?
Rami Youssef (2:09)
And you're filming a movie and it's directed by Jesse Armstrong, the Jesse Armstrong who created Succession, one of my favorite shows, correct me if I'm wrong. It's about a group of billionaire friends who get together during the financial crisis.
Rami Youssef (2:22)
It's not exactly the financial crisis, but it's a financial crisis.
Rami Youssef (2:28)
And getting to work with Jesse Armstrong, who you know, I've been a fan of forever. I when I was in high school, it was, you know, we were illegally downloading Peepshow, you know. And then now, you know, obviously I've been such a huge fan of Succession and to get to be, you know, in this really small cast of his first film that he's directing. It's really special. It's super surreal.
Rami Youssef (2:53)
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, one of the things that I absolutely love about his work is just how sharp the dialogue always is, and the characters are drawn so beautifully and with so much nuance.
Rami Youssef (3:05)
Yeah. There's just so much depth. I mean, I think that there's, you know, he's someone who is brilliant at that mix of, you know, wit and being topical, talking about things that, you know, could feel like really dense news headlines and somehow making them about character dynamics, making them about friendships, making them about families. And it's the kind of work I'm very attracted to. And then it's been an even, you know, richer experience, obviously, getting to help, you know, bring one of his scripts to life.
Rami Youssef (3:50)
So you yourself have a new project. Yeah, it's called Number One Happy Family usa, which is a great name. Thank you. It's an animated show.
Rami Youssef (3:59)
And it centers around a Muslim American family during 9 11. And it's really very, very funny. And I found it almost hopeful somehow that something like this can now be made a comedy about one of the most terrible days in American history from the perspective of a Muslim American family. Why did you want to make this show now?
Rami Youssef (4:19)
You know, I think that the thing that compelled me is, you know, the family in this show, they already have a lot going on before that happens. Pretty much the entire pilot. It's just this family comedy about a family you've never really seen in an animated space. And for me, though, to kind of bring in the events of the early 2000s felt important in the sense that, you know, it's something we talk about all the time. It's part of what we're currently experiencing. It's never gone away, and it's also never really been explored in media outside of a few, you know, points of view. And so when I think about how long these themes have been directly a part of my life and the lives of people that I know to get to, you know, step into a period of time that I don't think has escaped us in any way, unfortunately, and to get to do it in a style that is somewhat, you know, familiar in terms of trotting on political things that can feel a little difficult and undercuts them. Right. And doesn't make them feel so volatile, to get to give this kind of family, that treatment is really exciting and to, you know, go into this and at this through a totally unexpected and very silly lens. And maybe that's where that hope feeling comes from, because it's, it's so unfiltered and it's so wild and it's one of the craziest things I've gotten to be a part of and one of the most inappropriate things I've gotten to be a part of yet. There's a lot of love and care, I think, for, you know, the subjects involved. Right. Because it's, it's, it's meant to be something that finds the heart in, in the midst of kind of all the stuff.
Rami Youssef (6:13)
I tell you what resonated for me as someone who also comes from an immigrant family came to this country. You know, it speaks to wider than the Muslim American experience because the dad in the show is sort of desperately trying to prove his loyalty to America and it keeps literally in some cases blowing up in his face. And it's the theme, I see in a lot of your work, the idea that a big part of the immigrant experience is trying to figure out what it means to be American. And I feel like every generation grapples with that differently. And I'm wondering if you saw that in your own family.
Rami Youssef (6:52)
You know, I think that, you know, I'm really lucky that I grew up with, you know, strong parents who did have a sense of self. And it was almost because they did have a sense of self, I was able to see this piece of it that felt kind of scared and desperate. Right. And I don't think that was the defining experience. It's almost because it wasn't. I'm able to kind of look at it from the side and go, oh, wow. It's really interesting how pervasive that is in my community. I see it come up in my family. I see it come up mainly in myself. And I'm usually interested in making self reflective work because it's the only thing I can speak for. Making work about other people or joking about other people has never really been funny to me because it's like I don't even know who you are really. I know who you present and I know who I present and I know the gap between those gaps. And I think this show, you know, one of my favorite things about wanting to do an animated thing is, you know, I initially had this idea that it would be amazing to see an animated family that looked different when they were inside the house and when they were outside of the house, which I think is just universally human. I mean, like yourself being like, oh, it reminds me of my immigrant family. But then, you know, really just people who are Italians from New Jersey being like, man, I really know that feeling. That's like, I feel like I gotta be a different person the second I step out my front door, the second I get on my front lawn and show the world something and hide something about who I am.
Rami Youssef (8:26)
Yeah. The young character who I think is based off you has a similar name. There's this whole scene where he's code switching and basically, but literally changing his clothing to talk to different.
Rami Youssef (8:39)
Changing his clothing, changing his voice, you know, and then the family kind of does this, like through the whole series if they're, you know, leaving the house, you know, our, the daughter, her curly hair becomes straight immediately, you know, like she's got to straighten it. And, you know, our dad's beard turns into a mustache immediately because, oh, my God, I can't be viewed as this, you know, fully bearded man, you know. Rumi immediately hides all his curly hair with a hat, which I always did as a kid and continue to do into adulthood out of habit. But it's like that, that presentation, you know, that you're kind of picking up on, it's a very human thing. And I think that's what excites me about the show. And, you know, if you asked me, like, really what the show is about, it's about people trying to figure out how to be themselves in the middle of all of that. It happens to be set in the early 2000s, but it is about right now in this really eerie way. It is about right now. And it's about people who are, you know, in a lot of ways also too, dealing just with the financial burdens of capitalism and just, you know, man, like, I gotta stretch who I am in order to make a living. And I gotta stretch who I am in order to kind of like move forward and move through. And to get to do that in such a silly way with like music and jokes and crazy characters.
Rami Youssef (9:54)
There are some good musical numbers in.
Rami Youssef (9:56)
This big musical numbers.
Rami Youssef (10:00)
You just said something that is really interesting, which is that all of your work is self reflective in some way because you understand yourself or trying to understand yourself better than you could perhaps somebody else. And that, that is sort of the wellspring of your comed. How do you then try and make that universal?
Rami Youssef (10:20)
It's kind of just how like any conversation works. Right. I've always felt things kind of open up when you're willing to be vulnerable with people. And I think the act of just making it clear that you're putting yourself under the microscope is universal in and of itself. Because I think, you know, I think People are really genuinely good and introspective and kind of walk around all day going, should I said that? You know, should I have done that? Should I have worn this shirt? You know? And I think that's what ends up making it a connection point.
Rami Youssef (10:57)
There's this little title card at the top of every episode that warns that the characters should not be taken as representation.
Rami Youssef (11:04)
Yeah.
Rami Youssef (11:05)
Why are you so uncomfortable with representation?
Rami Youssef (11:10)
I think I'm reacting to when we put out Rami on Hulu. I remember seeing a headline that was like, muslims, here's the show for you. And then, like, my heart sinking, going, no, no, this is not. We are 2 billion people. And, like, a lot of them are not gonna like what I'm doing, and they shouldn't, because I am, you know, a guy from New Jersey who thinks this type of thing is funny. And I think, you know, putting the representation warning for me was a really cathartic thing of just being like, listen, I. This is not speaking in mass at all. I'm not like, I know you guys didn't elect me. And there's no. Like, I am just. This is. This is stuff that, you know, makes me laugh in a way of expression that a lot people, you know, that I worked with all really dug. But putting that card there, you know, was very cathartic for me, almost to just be like, hey, I agree with you. You know, I don't think this is. This is not a slice of what it's like for everybody, but it is a slice of what it's like for some people. And it is the sense of humor that it is for some people. And I think part of the conversation that I'm trying to crack open a little bit here is like, we have really great writers in my rooms and who bring amazing perspectives to the female characters, you know, on any of the shows that I've worked on. But it's also like, we haven't had media that's being fully driven by a female voice that's gonna crack open a whole other slice of this. We haven't had media that, you know, happens mainly in, let's say, the Gulf or mainly in the Middle east that cracks through into kind of, like, the Hollywood point of view in a meaningful way. And so I think those things are all going to continue to kind of foster a global conversation.
Interview Co-Host (12:53)
And so part of the representation card.
Rami Youssef (12:54)
Is like, I'm really aware of how small the global conversation is when it is radiating from New Jersey.
Rami Youssef (13:02)
You've talked a lot about specificity in your work and it made me wonder about. Because you're clearly saying I do not speak for the Muslim American community, certainly not the global Muslim community, which I totally get. But is there something particularly Egyptian about your work that you feel people haven't quite picked up on? Egyptian American? I mean, because the Cuban American experience, of which I am, is very different than the Mexican American experience than, you.
Rami Youssef (13:28)
Know, so that, you know what, I think it is pretty Egyptian. And I think that 100% and actually I don't think any of our representation warnings said that it doesn't represent Egyptians. So yeah, it probably does represent Egyptians. It's probably. There's a certain Egyptian sarcasm, dark humor that is all over my family that, you know, everything's, everything's said through the lens of a joke and you know, everything is like, has this, it's like, you know, nothing.
Interview Co-Host (14:00)
There's no moment that can go by.
Rami Youssef (14:01)
It's like, grandpa, I love you so much. I can't wait to see you next week if I'm alive.
Rami Youssef (14:08)
I do know from some of my Muslim American friends that because their community has suffered so much scrutiny, they are really wary of opening themselves up to the eyes of broader culture. Are you thinking or worrying about that perception when you're writing or when you're trying to, you know, portray your experience?
Rami Youssef (14:31)
I think my way of handling that kind of goes back to the, the work being self reflective. Above all, you know, I'm never really like, I'm not satirizing the culture so much as I am looking at the way people behave. Right. So it's like, I think the father in our show is a lot of people's fathers. You know, we open up our pilot with him handing out his family these small electrical bills that show the output that everyone is spending in the house, that shows how much shower water they're using and how much GameCube is being played and, and all these things and, and he's so worried about getting his family through under budget, you know, and I think that the things that hit on the sensitivities that you're talking about, I try to take a more tender approach towards while kind of surrounding it with a lot of other. You know, I like that word, tenderness. Yeah. I started in standup where things can be really caustic and there's literally an entire genre of standup that's like people roasting each other and going for the darkest thing and, and, and, and jokes about other people and expense. And as a fan of comedy, a lot of that stuff at various levels has made me laugh and has given me a release. But when it comes to what I participate in and what I do, there's just always a level of implication that I'll put myself through to kind of say, hey, like, I. Please don't ever think I'm laughing at you. I'm laughing at myself. And so I. I think that's where it's also very liberating because it's like. Like, you know, you're gonna watch it if you dig it, and if you don't, you're just gonna watch something else.
Rami Youssef (16:20)
Does it feel like tender comedy is harder to get made than caustic comedy?
Rami Youssef (16:27)
I mean, I think that's kind of like the velocity of anything, right? Like, bad news spreads faster than good news. You know, no one's like, hey, we recycled a lot. There's not really a headline. You know, I mean, talk to any Netflix executive. Any Netflix exec secretly will be like, hey, can you throw a murder into your show? Can you thr sexual assault in? Because then people are going to click through and you're okay. But it's also like, you know, people used to get together to watch public hangings. I don't know. We're like, we're sick.
Rami Youssef (16:54)
Is that really a thing that someone said to you about can you throw murder in there?
Rami Youssef (16:59)
I mean, I mean, they're not explicitly asking, but they're. They would never mind.
Rami Youssef (17:03)
So for you, it's like a conscious choice not to engage in that?
Rami Youssef (17:06)
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's. That. Yeah, for sure. Because I'm. I could be a fan of it, and I can kind of see it.
Rami Youssef (17:12)
And. But. But I. I kind of. It's just not interesting to me.
Rami Youssef (17:17)
You talked to my co host, David Marchese in 2020, right around the time of Rami Season 2, and you told him about what you called the Daily show effect, that Jon Stewart was so good at blending politics and comedy that it became almost expected for comedians to become political and have something to say about the news. And at that time, you really recoiled at that idea. But a lot of your work is inherently political. So I'm wondering how you think about that part of being a comedian.
Rami Youssef (17:52)
Yeah, well, I think that I am always dancing around it. I think at the end of the day, it's like, I'm an entertainer who works with entertainers, and there is this obligation to. For me, there's an obligation to be emotionally correct. My obligation, above all is to try and hit what something feels like right on the head. Like, that's My nail that I'm trying to hit, the nail I don't want to be asked to hit is to spread facts and information. I don't want that obligation. So it's like in my standup special, I talk about Palestine. Am I, like, going through every single thing and, like, debunking, you know, hey, this thing you heard in the news is false. Hey, this thing was worded wrong. Hey, this thing. No, that's. I'm actually talking actually about my dating life. And while I'm doing that and talking about that, you know, emotional experience, I'm also bringing in this really big thing, because it's always kind of about the emotional thing first and foremost, and then how that fits into the larger thing. And that's a very clear line for me.
Rami Youssef (19:07)
I mean, relatedly, I was wondering about Mo, the show you co created, that's about an undocumented Palestinian refugee living in Texas. You worked on the second season while the war in Gaza was going on. What was that like?
Rami Youssef (19:22)
Incredibly, incredibly surreal. Because when we started making that show, the average American did not know the difference between Palestine and Pakistan. It all kind of just sounded the same. And now, you know, it's the global conversation. So I think there's that level of being surreal. And then the clear line for us was, we're going to keep this about the characters. And to the thing we said earlier. I'm not about to get into, like, a news debate about it. It's just like, this is what these guys are going. This is what it looks like when you don't have your papers. We're going to show you what these courts look like. And. And it's funny because it's tender. And we're going to show you what it looks like to fight so hard to go back to your homeland, and then what ends up happening, that's totally out of your control in a way that's really tender. And so it only just refined our guiding principles in terms of, okay, more people are at the table for the conversation. We actually can do less explaining and we can just do more character work. And we don't have to round it out as much because, you know, everyone's is aware, on a level at least everyone who's gonna tune in, you know, kind of has an idea going in.
Rami Youssef (20:43)
Yeah. In your most recent comedy special, More Feelings, you talked about how everyone wanted you to do something for their cause, like Iranian women, Pakistani floods. You called yourself the mayor of Muslim disaster, which is very funny. How do you decide what you do wanna talk about? With all those expectations coming on you.
Rami Youssef (21:05)
A lot of times it's just like, you know, people that I know who you know, I mean, places I've been, places I have a personal connection to. I have so many friends in Palestine, it would just be. I've been there so many times. It would be. It just doesn't make sense. It's like, it's like as if something was happening in your hometown. It's like, how do you not talk about it? You know, my, my best friend in the world is disabled and has muscular dystrophy. And we've done so many things for the Muscular Dystrophy association over the years. And, you know, there is this part of the way that I was raised where I saw my parents, even when they were struggling financially, always gave charity. That's just how I was raised. It was like, that was never a question. That was a expense in the way that food was. It was like, yeah, we also have to do charity. And so you see your, like, it'd be, It's a really funny thing. Like, my dad is such an open heart. It's like, all right, we got to give charity. And he's kind of stressed about it, but it's just like, the reality of it, and there's something about that that is very intertwined with how I view the world. That's a given. And I think part of the joke, though, is just that feeling of the pressure of every single thing.
Rami Youssef (22:17)
Yeah. I mean, you hosted SNL last year, and at the end of your monologue, you made a plea to please free the people of Palestine. And you also said, please free the hostages. Were you nervous about that moment?
Rami Youssef (22:32)
No, I, I, it's more nerve wracking to not say something. It's more nerve wracking to, to try.
Interview Co-Host (22:42)
To.
Rami Youssef (22:45)
Shield yourself from whatever criticism is gonna come. And plenty of it has come, but I get more tense if I'm, like, sitting quietly trying to stay safe, you know? And, you know, what I said is completely inoffensive. And that's the other thing is, like, people are sensitive about it, or people might say, well, why didn't you say this? Or why didn't you do that? But on the whole, there's nothing controversial about any of it.
Rami Youssef (23:13)
Well, to say free Palestine on live national television wasn't common when.
Rami Youssef (23:18)
No, no, it's not common. No.
Rami Youssef (23:19)
Yeah. And talking about the hostages at the same time does anger some on the far left. I mean, one of the directors of the Oscar winning doc no Other Land recently got a lot of blowback for something similar.
Rami Youssef (23:31)
Yeah, I mean, look, there are false equivalencies in terms of power. That's what people are talking about. They're talking about dynamics of power. And so when you look at Gaza, you're talking about a place where their water and electricity are controlled. So even the framing of the earlier question of calling it a war, you know, I'm like, all right, whatever. Call it whatever you want to call it. Yes, there are two sides who are fighting, but there. There is a massive power imbalance. And that is just unequivocally true. And so. And even me saying, how would you frame it?
Rami Youssef (24:01)
What would be the. How would you describe it?
Rami Youssef (24:04)
I mean, I just said it. It's literally literal power. Like, they could literally turn off the electricity. They could turn off the water. They can turn off what aid is getting in. So. So it's like, you know, it's like being in a wrestling match with someone where you're controlling the other guy's calories and how much water he gets. And, you know, it's like, okay, he sneaks a few in that you didn't know about. You know, it's not. It's. It's just a. It's its own thing. But where I stand from is, like, I know so many people with kids. I hope to have kids. So for me to say all of that in one sentence, nobody wants there to be people getting bombed indiscriminately, and nobody wants there to be hostages. So there is nothing controversial for me in saying it. It is just when you're not saying everything that everyone wants to hear, they get upset. But anything I've said, I could. You know, I mean, jokes are one thing, but anything I've said sincerely, it's just like, I could tattoo it to myself because it's not even. It's. There's no problem. Like, I don't have. Like, that's why I'm not afraid, because it's like, I. What did I say? Stop killing kids. Oh, my God, this guy's crazy. What?
Interview Co-Host (25:09)
Like, it's not.
Rami Youssef (25:10)
Like.
Rami Youssef (25:10)
It's not like, it's not a thing.
Rami Youssef (25:14)
Do you think comedians have more political power now than they used to? And what do you think about that? That.
Rami Youssef (25:20)
Well, I mean, it's interesting to even think about, like, what comedy even is anymore. Right? Because more people are watching Tik Tok and Instagram reels than a sitcom. Look, you're interviewing me, and there are people who you wouldn't interview who have way more views than I do. Like, like literal views of people watching their stuff, you know, because they kind of specifically go at the online game. Right. And I'm not even being self deprecating. More the point, more the point that I'm. The point that I'm more trying to make is that, you know, the individual voice has like more outlets than ever and is in a way trusted more than ever. So it's like the individual, whether it's the individual podcaster, the individual comedian, or the individual online content creator is having their moment right now. And so I think that does spill into comedy. I think that does spill into comedians. But if you look at the comedians too, who people are really like, feel that big catharsis with, it's still kind of our, like legacy people like who, who've been doing it for so long, who have, you know, whether it be like John, you know, Stuart, Oliver, Chappelle, you know, guys, you know, people who've like, really been around, you know that people are like, oh, wow. Yeah, you know, they're still talking about this stuff. I'm really curious what they think about this thing.
Rami Youssef (26:49)
Yeah. Last questions. You're now making movies, you're directing. You were in Poor Things. You know, you've got this new Jesse Armstrong project coming on. This is, you know, the kind of stuff that most actors and entertainers would dream of. Do you find it harder to connect to your old life? You know, that wellspring that we started talking about at the beginning of this conversation, you know, that kind of has fed so much of your work?
Rami Youssef (27:18)
Honestly, no. Mainly because it, you know, I still, I live in New York. I still live near all my friends who grew, like I grew up with. I'm in a group chat with like 15 of my buddies who I went to high school and college with. Only two of them have seen poor things or seen half of my work. Like, they don't. They're just like, they're not. Like, I'm around a lot of people who are like, dude, like, oh, cool, like, do your thing or whatever. But I also think the nature of Hollywood, the nature of, you know, I don't think that television and film is as much of a separator in terms of experience as before. And I think I mostly view that as. There's a lot of pros to that. Like, a lot of people have access to creativity. A lot of people have access to cameras. A lot of people, again, like the social media stuff we were talking about.
Rami Youssef (28:12)
Everyone now can be a star on social media, I guess.
Rami Youssef (28:15)
Yeah. And I think. And I think that that's interesting. I mean, it's like you, I don't. And I, and I purposely use the word interesting, which is a word that.
Rami Youssef (28:25)
Like, can mean many things.
Rami Youssef (28:27)
It can mean many things. It can mean nothing even. But, but I, I, I'm, I will say I'm curious about it. I find it. I, like, I'm, I'm, I'm more peaked towards something like, positive than judgmental because the possibilities for conversations that, that we've gotten to have are, Are just undeniably larger. And I think that that's always good and, you know, even if it's bumpy, you know, in the middle. But yeah, I don, you know, just as connected. And again, I think, like, when some of what we were talking about earlier, I just know too many people going through really, really real things and you just try to be there for them and empathize with them. And you also really just sit in the reality of like, anyone who's got anything good going on knows the reality that it could not be that way tomorrow.
Interview Host (29:14)
You know, Are there parts of your.
Rami Youssef (29:16)
Life that you still feel like you're trying to understand through your art? Are things that you haven't quite worked out yet?
Rami Youssef (29:24)
Yeah, a lot. I mean, I'm, I'm, you know, it's really interesting. Just, I, you know, just started. My wife and I just kind of being like, oh, we, you know, should we have kids? And just even the, you know, as we kind of start to. So many of my friends are having kids and you think about being in charge of another person. Like, yeah, I'm in my 30s. And so it's just kind of like you go, oh, wow. Like that the idea of not being a kid and just someone's kid. But like, all of that, as I kind of start to, you know, really broach that and kind of start to really be like, oh, yeah. Like, you know, when I started making my Show, I was 26. 6, and I'm 34 now. So it's like, that's a lot of time. But I, and then I'm like, oh, yeah. Like, I think I still kind of view myself as a kid, but not really. Like, I am an adult. And so there is that. That aspect of it is, Is really so new and just kind of really, like, figuring out, you know, oh, yeah. Like, when does self discovery. I mean, arguably it's always happening, but at a certain point it's gotta transition into like, hey, this is what I do. This kind of is who I am. And there's something about the kind of, like, the solidifying of at least parts of it that feel necessary. And so I think that is something I've really been exploring a lot on stage that has been very fun and different and new for me. Yeah.
Rami Youssef (30:59)
Are we gonna have Rami use of dad jokes? Is that, like, where this is all headed?
Rami Youssef (31:04)
100%, yes. On the way it will happen. Yeah. Brace yourself.
Interview Host (31:17)
After the break and an unexpected delay between our two conversations due to my appendix bursting, I call Rami back. We talk about some lighter stuff, including why teamwork is at the heart of his creative process.
Interview Co-Host (31:30)
I try as much as possible be in a position of, okay, here's what I know. Here's the larger thing I'm trying to solve, and then, and honestly kind of, like, beg people to help me and just be like, please, please help me. How do we do this? Can we do this together?
Lulu Garcia Navarro (31:52)
The Ford foundation supports the institutions, individuals, and ideas at the forefront of social justice. Join us for ideasford for conversations with leaders from all walks of life.
Rami Youssef (32:04)
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Interview Host (32:49)
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Rami Youssef (32:51)
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Interview Host (33:04)
Hey, Rami.
Interview Co-Host (33:05)
Hey. Are you all right?
Rami Youssef (33:06)
I heard you. I heard you were not feeling well.
Interview Host (33:09)
There was a series of unfortunate events.
Rami Youssef (33:13)
Oh, my gosh.
Interview Host (33:14)
That ended up with me and my sister being operated on by the same surgeon.
Rami Youssef (33:18)
Whoa.
Interview Host (33:19)
Yeah, it was totally bizarre.
Rami Youssef (33:21)
Oh, my God.
Interview Co-Host (33:21)
I'm so sorry.
Rami Youssef (33:22)
It's totally fine.
Interview Co-Host (33:23)
I'm hoping it was elective surgery that.
Rami Youssef (33:26)
Was cosmetic that you both wanted.
Interview Host (33:28)
Yeah, wouldn't that be lovely? We got matching nose job. So anyway, it was a lot.
Rami Youssef (33:33)
Well, I'm glad you're better.
Interview Host (33:34)
All right. I was thinking about you this week when I saw all the turmoil in the markets, and I was wondering what it was like to have life imitate art. Because you're filming this story about billionaires in a crisis. And we are seeing billionaires in a crisis irl. I mean, does it help the performance? Are you talking about it? Like, were there any rewrites in real time? What does that, what does that do?
Interview Co-Host (33:57)
You're kind of like right on the money. Because it's like, I think that without giving away too much, there's like this video tech on our, on our shoot, Andre, who actually loads our phones so they feel like real phones with real headlines. And I've been having this experience where it's like I go home at the end of the day and I'm looking at my phone and I'm like, wait, is this Andre's phone? Like, is this, are these headlines? So much of. Yeah. So much of what's occurring in real life and kind of how this, this confluence of, you know, government and TEC and all these things. Yeah. Is, you know, again, without going too much into it is like what's happening.
Rami Youssef (34:35)
You know, and what we're portraying.
Interview Co-Host (34:36)
And so it's been so. Yeah. So surreal.
Interview Host (34:40)
We've talked a lot about the self reflective nature of your work and you've.
Rami Youssef (34:45)
Spent a lot of this first part of your career making your own stuff.
Interview Host (34:49)
Telling your stories, but now you're also in other people's projects much more prominently. Is there something freeing about that?
Rami Youssef (34:56)
That.
Interview Co-Host (34:58)
Yeah, it's amazing. I mean, I think, you know, on one level, like from a technical point of view, to get to be an actor for someone with a vision like Yorgos or Jesse, it's just really cool because you're only doing one thing, you know, And I think a lot of the opportunities that I have been able to have, I'm very much, you know, doing so many different parts of it because that was just how it went. You know, I, I tried many years just being an auditioning actor and that wasn't exactly, you know, no one ever knew what to do with me. You know, it was always kind of like, well, you're not, you know, you're not in, you know, you're not this Indian character.
Rami Youssef (35:43)
We wrote.
Interview Co-Host (35:44)
We don't know if you're the, the friend or the leading guy or.
Rami Youssef (35:47)
It was always all of that stuff.
Interview Co-Host (35:49)
And so I kind of was very much, much feeling like I wanted to create a specific frequency.
Rami Youssef (35:54)
And I've been very lucky to get.
Interview Co-Host (35:55)
To do that again with a lot of support. But then to get to now be at a place where people understand what it is that I do and are.
Rami Youssef (36:04)
Excited to do it. It is very freeing to kind of show up and focus on one thing.
Interview Co-Host (36:09)
And also to help somebody else's vision.
Rami Youssef (36:12)
And I really like that.
Interview Co-Host (36:13)
And not even just as an actor, but as in the creative process. I just really like seeing pieces of art that should exist, get to exist.
Rami Youssef (36:23)
And so I just.
Interview Co-Host (36:24)
There's this kid part of me that gets really lit up of, oh, whoa. Like, I could do something on that in some way. Like, cool. Like, whatever you need. Like, what do you need?
Interview Host (36:31)
You know, it struck me in thinking both about the projects you've created and the projects you've chosen to be a part of that they're really group projects in a lot of ways. You know, Jesse Armstrong, Yorgos Lanthimos, who directed Poor Things, are really known for their emphasis on ensemble casts. And the way you talk about your work seems really similar. I'm curious, first if that impression seems right to you, and if so, can you just talk a little bit about why that kind of communal, creative work appeals to you so much?
Interview Co-Host (37:04)
You know, I think one of the strangest things, you know, when we were making, you know, my first show, Rami, it was called Rami, truly out of like. Like, lack of a better option that any of us could find. I mean, I really did not want that, mainly because I also knew half the people would pronounce it Rami. But I was really like, something about.
Rami Youssef (37:27)
This isn't exactly how I work.
Interview Co-Host (37:29)
And I think. I think. I think the best stories are serving a philosophy. And I've certainly felt that with your ghost, and I felt that with Jesse. And it's the way that I like to work as well. Where you're not feeling this. There's none of this I'm the director energy or I'm the star energy. It's a bunch of people kind of almost coming together saying, okay, we got together to talk about this one idea. You know, that's what's exciting about making something, is that process is like, the reach, you know, And I think that's also what's kind of been this really interesting thing. You know, I have friends in tech who've messaged me lately, you know, with some of the stuff saying, you know, dude, like, look at this, you know, AI movies. You can make the entire movie with AI, you know, it's like, I want to make the movie. Like, I want to struggle with it, and I want to reach, and I want to do it with a group of people because, you know, there's this spiritual connection that just does something totally Different. And I think, you know, yeah, that length you're drawing, I don't know that I would have even framed it that way. But as you ask the question, I'm like, oh, yeah, there is this kinship in all of these things. And, you know, certainly this animated show that we're about to put out was maybe even the biggest group effort I've been a part of, because so much of it was out of my hands in terms of, you know, the design stuff and the animation stuff, you know, to get to work with Monashellabi, to get to work with all these animators who kind of, you know, they. So many of the best jokes we have are visual ones that I was surprised by when I was watching back things that they interpreted from the script. And so, yeah, that, that, that style of working is. Is kind of the only way I want to work ever.
Interview Host (39:10)
We didn't actually talk about this, but one of the collaborators you just mentioned on Number One, Happy Family usa, is Mona Shalabi, who I actually know as a journalist. She's a data journalist. I mean, she's won a Pulitzer. Illustrator, but she's also an executive producer on the show. She takes very complicated ideas, and she manages to make them entertaining and digestible and understandable to regular people. How do you feel like her journalism background shows up in the series of at all?
Interview Co-Host (39:37)
Honestly, like, there probably wouldn't be a project if she didn't say yes. Because I was like, you know, I, I, I, I had written at that point, I had written the pilot with Pam, who, who came from the south park world and is such a great comedic collaborator. And then I felt, okay, but as we go into making this the visual world that we want, when I look at Mona Shelby's work, she's so good, like you said, at breaking down these really wild statistics or questions and actually making them really poppy and colorful and something that you want to look at before you even know what you're looking at, it just kind of grabs your eye. And I felt there was already kind of this kinship with what she was doing to what I thought the medium of animation could do for this, for this particular story. And so I try to really, kind of, as much as possible, be in a position of, okay, here's what I know, here's the larger thing I'm trying to solve, and then honestly kind of like, beg people to help me and just be like, please, please help me. How do we do this? Can we do this together? That's actually how we even got the soundtrack for our Show. Show. There's this kid, Moaz Daad. I mean, I call him a kid, he's my age, but he. He scored the entire show from his apartment in Alexandria, Egypt, and would drive into Cairo to find session musicians to fill the pieces that he didn't know. But I had heard like one track of his and I said, dude, you know, you can do this whole thing. And he was like, no, I can't. And, and. And I just kind of begged him. And then he kind of created this sound that was, you know, unbelievable.
Interview Host (41:25)
I'm glad you mentioned the music because you wrote a lot of these songs also. Why did you have these big animated musical numbers? Have you written music before? I mean, like, tell me how this came about.
Interview Co-Host (41:41)
So, yeah, so the music happened in kind of two parts. There's the score of the show, and then the other piece of the music.
Rami Youssef (41:47)
Was, you know, I was doing these.
Interview Co-Host (41:50)
Voices, which I've not done a lot of character work. You know, I tend to play things, even in my stand up, more grounded and conversational. And then I got in the booth and I really found these voices. And then while I was there, we were doing the voice over work in.
Rami Youssef (42:10)
A variety of studios as I was traveling.
Interview Co-Host (42:12)
But one particular studio in Brooklyn had a bunch of guitars there in house and a piano in house. House. And I had played music in high school. I mean, I grew up in the. In the New Jersey emo scene. So we all kind of picked up a guitar and wore tight pants and like, tried to do that thing for at least, you know, everyone had a stint and, you know, so I, I knew some guitar, but I kind of.
Rami Youssef (42:39)
Picked it up and I had just.
Interview Co-Host (42:41)
Found the voice of the dad. Hussein. Hussein. And I was like, you know, what would it sound like if Hussein made music? And this was like between setups and I just started playing and then I wrote this song kind of spontaneously about, you know, him at his halal cart and how he used to be a doctor, but now he. He can't be a doctor in America and he just has to sell meat. And. And I wrote this track, money for the Meat. And then it became this element of the show that, you know, is really, you know, truly one of my favorites. And we kind of, you know, I ended up writing like.
Interview Host (43:15)
Like, I love Spies in the Mosque.
Interview Co-Host (43:17)
Yes, Spies in the Mosque. You know, like a Backstreet Boys bop about surveillance, basically. You know, and so, you know, we. And then we kind of made an album. It added a really funny, like just a fun element and, you know, I actually was like, I was talking, I had this really fun day where I, I got to do a bucket list goal of playing basketball with Adam Sandler.
Interview Host (43:44)
Oh, wow.
Interview Co-Host (43:45)
And I was talking to him about, is he good? He's amazing. I mean, he's great. I mean, he fouls a lot and he's like, very aggressive, but he's great.
Rami Youssef (43:54)
He'd probably tell you I foul too much too.
Interview Co-Host (43:56)
But I was talking to him about how when I was a kid, you know, hearing his like Hanukkah song and hearing all that music that he made was so wild because it was like out of the pattern of just hearing Christmas songs. And so, you know, and I was telling him about this thing almost in a way, like feeling, it felt very exciting to me to kind of get to make these songs. And in our second season, we actually have like, we, we, we make a bit of like a, you know, Ramadan Eid song that, that kind of, that, that comes out. But this idea of hearing these animated jingles from a totally different perspective and different voice, I, I remember seeing that Sandler Hanukkah stuff and just going, whoa, this is very different. And then it was very exciting to kind into something like that here.
Rami Youssef (44:49)
And also totally by accident, again, like.
Interview Co-Host (44:51)
Not a goal going in, but then felt like this really organic thing that the, that the character found.
Interview Host (44:57)
What did Adam say?
Interview Co-Host (44:59)
I mean, he was so hyped and so supportive and like. Yeah, it was, it was, it was really. Yeah, it was so cool. I mean, I've been a fan for him forever, you know, of him forever.
Lulu Garcia Navarro (45:09)
Who won.
Interview Co-Host (45:11)
It was a two on two game.
Rami Youssef (45:12)
And I don't, I wasn't on his team.
Interview Co-Host (45:14)
I think we split games, but I.
Rami Youssef (45:15)
I, I think ultimately I think he might have, I think he might have won, but I, I must have lost.
Interview Co-Host (45:21)
Because I can't remember because I think I would, I think if I had won, I'd be, I'd confidently say I won.
Rami Youssef (45:27)
I'm pretty sure I lost.
Interview Host (45:34)
That's ramy Youssef. Number one. Happy Family USA debuts on Prime Video on April. April 17th. And since we talked, the Jesse Armstrong movie has a title. Mountainhead. It'll be out on HBO and Max on May 31. This conversation was produced by Wyatt Orme. It was edited by Annabelle Bacon, mixing by Sophia Landman, original music by Diane Wong and Marion Lozano. Photography by Philip Montgomery. Our senior brookers, Priya Matthew and Seth Kelly is our senior producer.
Rami Youssef (46:04)
Producer.
Interview Host (46:05)
Our executive producer is Alison Benedikt. Special thanks to Rory Walsh. Renan Borelli, Jeffrey Miranda, Maddie Masiello, Jake Silverstein, Paula Schumann and Sam Dolnick. If you like what you're hearing, follow or subscribe to the Interview. Wherever you get your podcasts to read or listen to any of our conversations, you can always go to nytimes.com theinterview and you can email us anytime@the interviewytimes.com Next week, David talks with comedian Nate Bargetsi about why he's kept his act so clean.
Interview Co-Host (46:36)
I'll have a lot of grandmothers come to my shows and they love me. I do really good with grandmothers and I always love that because I don't think there's much being made that they could go to.
Interview Co-Host (46:50)
Certainly not stand up comedy.
Interview Co-Host (46:52)
No, no, no. That's the goal. I'm trying to be only grandmothers. Shows are at 8:30am that's the late show.
Interview Host (47:01)
I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro and this is the interview from the New York Times.
Lulu Garcia Navarro (47:17)
The Ford foundation supports the institutions, individuals and ideas at the forefront of social justice. Join us for ideasford for conversations with leaders from all walks of life.
Rami Youssef (47:28)
Billie Jean King, Matt Damon, Jess Tom.
Lulu Garcia Navarro (47:32)
Roy Wood Jr. Sparkle as they share unique perspectives on innovative solutions we need today. Tune in to ideasford for ideas that can enlighten, inspire and transform the world. Visit fordfoundation.org thedaily to learn more.
