Laird Hamilton & Gabby Reece Share How to Radiate Teenage Energy in Your 50s

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Laird Hamilton & Gabby Reece Share How to Radiate Teenage Energy in Your 50s"

The Dan Buettner Podcast | October 23, 2025
Guests: Laird Hamilton & Gabby Reece
Host: Dan Buettner

---

Overview

In this lively, deeply insightful episode, Dan Buettner, the celebrated explorer behind the Blue Zones, sits down with legendary surfer Laird Hamilton and volleyball champion/author Gabby Reece. Together, they unpack the surprising, real-world habits and mindsets that allow them—not just to look great into their 50s and 60s—but to radiate the energy, joy, and connection of people half their age. The trio dives into counterintuitive approaches to fitness, food, community, relationship, and the very meaning of a “successful” life.

---

Main Themes & Key Insights

1. Sources of Energy & Youthfulness

• Energy as a conscious choice, not just genetics
  • Gabby credits Laird with freeing her from limiting beliefs about aging, focusing instead on excitement, goals and curiosity, rather than social narratives about slowing down. (02:03)
  • “I think Laird doesn't really think about that. I think he's completely in touch with the fact that he's 61, but I think he's more in touch with his goals and things that excite him.” — Gabby Reece [02:44]
  • Laird connects their energy to being open to the universe and passions (“It comes from the universe. An antenna, maybe that clean, clean and clean signal.” — [01:47])

2. Love, Connection, and Relationship

• A mutually supportive partnership
  • Laird describes “worshipping” Gabby as a source of energy and joy. (03:12)
  • “Having good love and having someone to say, hey, I feel this way today. Don't kid yourself. The value of that is very powerful because life has all its ups and downs.” — Gabby Reece [03:28]
  • Openness, truth-telling in their family “hot box” (sauna), and willingness to be vulnerable are highlighted.
  • The value of open homes/community as a “vortex of love” (Dan, 04:33–05:27)

3. Community, Service & Multi-Generational Socializing

• Dynamic, open-door approach to community
  • Intergenerational community: “Every generation together, inclusion, and shared experiences break down modern isolation.” — Laird [05:27]
  • Their home as a hub for play, training, sharing, and truth-telling, reinforcing purpose and joy.

4. Physical Vitality & Daily Practices

• Rituals over rigid routines
  • Move daily for joy, not just for fitness: “Do something every day that you love.” — Dan [25:56]
  • Seek consistency, not extremity: “Walking, lifting weights—smart, not punishing. And be in the sunlight.” — Gabby/Laird [45:55–46:26]
  • Emphasize community-involved activities, not isolated workouts. Avoid working out if it's a grind; make it play or purposeful movement instead (walking, swimming, sports, gardening).

5. Food, Nutrition & Gut Instinct

• Simplicity and quality over complexity
  • “Real food. It isn’t complicated.” — Gabby [32:57]
  • Prioritize plants and animals, healthy fats, and time meals to activity and hunger. Minimize carbs with fat; pair carbs (like sweet potatoes) with evening meals to improve sleep/recovery.
  • Importance of strategy and self-exploration in nutrition—one size doesn’t fit all.

6. Adapting to Modern Barriers

• Supplementing a disconnected environment
  • Directly address the disconnect between modern lifestyles and our biology: “We have to supplement our biology…we’re forced to supplement now.” — Laird [26:55]
  • Prioritize sunlight and darkness for healthy circadian rhythms; mitigate exposure to blue light/EMFs. Get good water and minimize plastics. [30:01–32:19]
  • Recognize the need for intentional rituals (e.g., grounding, walking barefoot, breathwork) to recover ancestral health benefits lost to modern living.

7. Overcoming Hardship: Poverty, Trauma, and Drive

• Poverty and trauma as gifts
  • Both Laird and Gabby credit “impoverished upbringings” and outsider status for teaching work ethic, resilience, and dream-chasing:
    • “Dreams come true. And so you can do...you can achieve your dreams. You have to have realistic dreams. Otherwise they're fantasies.” — Laird [17:53]
  • Use adversity as insight, not identity (Gabby talks about “high cards” and making the best of them). [18:35–19:34]

8. Discipline, Striving, and the Joy of the Process

• Enjoying the pursuit, not just the outcome
  • “It's about the journey, not the destination. So it's a continual pursuit of...your own development.” — Laird [13:58]
  • Acknowledge the grind where needed, but infuse it with “fun” or purpose.
  • Laird: “If it becomes a chore, I stop wanting to do it.” [57:11]
  • On flow: riding the edge of challenge and capacity, making work unconscious and instinctual (67:20–67:47)

9. Self-Knowledge, Selfishness, and Relationship

• Radical accountability and healthy selfishness
  • Gabby encourages holding onto individuality (and a “piece of real estate” for oneself), even in deep partnership.
  • “We are both fairly selfish. It's the way I can be whole, and then together we can be together.” — Laird [73:04]
  • The twin engines of discipline and grace: “It takes a level of discipline and work. And grace, because if you fall off...just go to bed, wake up, do your best the next day.” — Gabby [52:53]
  • Mutual assured destruction in relationships: both partners refusing to accept disrespect or complacency. [75:08, 76:53–77:38]

10. Vulnerability and Lifelong Growth

• True strength is compassionate and humble
  • “To be a true warrior, one must be compassionate.” — Gabby quoting "Natural Born Heroes" [09:40]
  • Almost divorced in 2000; worked through hardship by developing new skills, opening up to conflict, and putting in relationship “work” (68:06–70:47)
  • Value apologizing, admitting when wrong, and humor in conflict: “Being right is like...is it that important?” — Laird [82:01]

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Energy & Partnership:
  “Maybe some of it has to do with my worshiping of her.” — Laird [03:12]

• On Living Community:
  “You can never feel more alone than you do in a giant city, and yet that's where all the people are.” — Laird [06:19]

• On Adversity:
  “Was poverty a gift?” “Best thing. Best. I mean, it's terrible when you're in it. Like, everything. But as soon as you feel good, you're like, oh, my gosh, feeling good is great.” — Laird [16:23]

• On Joy and Movement:
  “Do something every day that you love...if you're not doing it pretty much every day for most of your life, it ain't gonna add years to your life.” — Dan [25:56]

• On Simple Health Pillars:
  “No sunlight, no life.” — Laird [30:01]

• On Food Simplicity:
  “Breakfast is a little bit of a myth. It was fabricated probably by Kellogg.” — Gabby [36:21]

• On Accountability:
  “We have neither [accountability nor grace]. We're beating ourselves up in our minds...and yet we're not taking full accountability.” — Gabby [52:53]

• On Healthy Selfishness:
  “It's the way that she can be whole and I can be whole, and then together we can be together.” — Laird [73:04]

• On Relationship Survival:
  “Imagine you survived long enough that you got to a place where it gets unbelievably great...but you would have never even known that had you just...jumped off the ship.” — Laird [70:47]

• On Monogamy and Fulfillment:
  “Because I want to be happy. In the long run, monogamy is what it is.” — Laird [78:04]

---

Important Timestamps & Segments

• [01:45–03:12]: Exploring the "teenage energy" of Laird & Gabby—channeling passion, avoiding limiting beliefs.
• [04:33–07:22]: Building community, play, and the "truth box."
• [13:10–17:53]: Discipline, trauma, poverty as fuel.
• [23:09–26:55]: Cake recipe for midlife vitality: hormone checks, daily sunlight, fun movement, lifting heaving things, relationships over isolation, stress management.
• [32:57–39:39]: Deep dive into real food, fat/protein vs carbs, timing, and meal strategies.
• [45:55–49:39]: "Sweet spot" for movement, importance of sunlight, reverse movement as we age.
• [61:39–67:47]: Life and relationship satisfaction, navigating marriage crises, embracing striving and vulnerability.
• [70:17–73:28]: The role of healthy selfishness and radical personal accountability in thriving relationships.
• [75:00–83:35]: Monogamy, mutually assured destruction, relationship dynamics, and wisdom for enduring love.
• [83:35–84:28]: Success as a byproduct, not the goal—passion, simplicity, and gratitude.

---

Tone & Language

• Friendly, honest, direct, and unsparing about both triumphs and vulnerability; marked by real warmth, humor, and healthy self-deprecation.
• Pragmatic, anti-guru (“don’t try to copy our blueprint—find your own, experiment”).
• Repetitive emphasis on simple joy, connection, sunlight, movement, and community as the bedrock of vitality and happiness.

---

Final Takeaways

Laird Hamilton and Gabby Reece offer a powerful, lived argument that energy, vitality, and even a passionate relationship in midlife are not about rigid discipline or “hacks” but about aligning daily life with curiosity, real community, bodily intuition, and simple, nature-based habits. Their openness about adversity, evolving love, and the importance of both self-preservation and selflessness provide a modern blueprint for thriving—one that echoes the lessons Dan has found in the Blue Zones worldwide.

---

Explore more practical and inspiring habits for longevity at Dan Buettner’s podcast homepage!

Transcript

[Laird Hamilton]

Lemonade.

[Gabby Reece]

The problem is we are completely in conflict with our biology.

[Laird Hamilton]

The way we live, we're forced to supplement.

[Gabby Reece]

Now, we almost got divorced in 2000, paperwork and all. I got scared and ran away.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I mean, I've been marinating in happiness research for 15 years, and I've never heard anybody put. Today, I'm going to introduce you to two uber humans that gave us a number of great life lessons. Laird Hamilton, surfing legend you've seen on the COVID of magazines. And his wife, Gabby Reese, who's a volleyball player, New York Times bestseller, and was once voted the most beautiful woman in the world. These guys have hit middle age in the way the rest of us all want to be. They're fit, they're happy, they're in a great relationship.

[Gabby Reece]

And.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

And they give us three counterintuitive tips on how to arrive there, not only what exercise to do, but how to do it for long enough so we actually get the effect we want. Number two, we've all heard of this idea of an empty nest. They have completely reinvented the empty nest to be something that we can look forward to. And finally, they draw their strength from the secrets of Hawaiian traditions that will blow your mind. I cannot wait for you to tune in and for you to learn. Learn how to really do middle age in a way that you not only look good, but you feel good and you're in love. I'm gonna snap right into it. I'm just gonna say, like, you. I know you guys are in your 50s or 60s, but you. You radiate the energy of two teenagers in love. I mean, how.

[Gabby Reece]

Where.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Where does this energy come from?

[Laird Hamilton]

Comes from the universe.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

You just channel it.

[Laird Hamilton]

Comes from the universe. An antenna, maybe that clean, clean and clean signal.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I mean, but do you consciously organize your life to. Are you energetic because you've tried to be energetic, or you're just genetically lucky?

[Gabby Reece]

I mean, so much is genetics, right? But then imagine I Met Laird in 1995. So I've had the great fortune to live with somebody who. I would say that Laird, in a different way influences me more in this way than I influence him, which is in relationship. In relationship to the energy to being youthful. Maybe I could have gotten bogged down by the narrative. I think I would have always had a good health practice. But the other piece of that, right, is your beliefs and your limiting beliefs. And I think Laird doesn't really think about that. I think he is completely in touch with the fact that he's 61, but I think he's more in Touch with the. His goals and things that excite him. And the world sort of tells you, oh, well, now you're this age, so you should feel this way or think this way. And so I think that you don't do that. I think you really follow your passion to be in the sea and then all the things that it would take and keeping curiosity alive. And so I think that's really given me permission to live like that for the last almost 30 years.

[Laird Hamilton]

Well, and maybe some of it has to do with my worshiping of her.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

You know, I read it.

[Laird Hamilton]

So some of my worshiping worship the most beautiful woman in the world. So some of my worship 40 years ago, thinking of her does maybe give her energy.

[Gabby Reece]

Listen, having good love and having someone to say, hey, I feel this way today. Don't kid yourself. The value of that is very powerful because life has all its ups and downs.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Yes. If somebody has your back and yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

And to say to somebody, hey, I feel overwhelmed today, or I do feel anxious about one of our children or the unknown or our business or whatever the things are. So certainly that is. Obviously, you know, you're a studies guy. If you look at the Harvard study.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

It'S like I wrote a cover story for National Geographic. Unhappiness, which is data. And you can boil it down to the four following things. Something to do, somebody to love, something to look forward to, and something to give back. Those four things, if you have those, and you clearly have, I guess, pretty.

[Gabby Reece]

Much all of them, I think we try. I think, you know, we were joking. We read that the courage to be disliked during COVID And I think it just summarizes this idea of, like, you know, to be of service. Like, I'll go on and on and on, but at the end of the day. So you were at our house earlier. We, you know, open our home to have people, if they want to come train.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I just love that, you know, I traveled the world to try to understand why people live the longest. And it's not rapamycin, it's not metformin, it's not stem cells. The impact of community, the impact of having a group of people you can trust and you can be around on a bad day is more powerful than any known supplement or superfood. And when I came in, I went down to your pool, and you had kids in there, you had your friends over, you had somebody from London. You were all playing, but it was a sense of play where you felt like a vortex of kind of, if I may say, love. And then laird you were saying that you have this hot box, which is a truth box too, where you can all be vulnerable and speak your truth in an environment of stress. I mean, it's hot as h e double toothpicks, but it's ultimately a perfect environment to bond.

[Laird Hamilton]

Beautiful environment. Yeah. And I think there's something to be said about having, having the kids, older people, like having the whole group together and not like, hey, we're with the. You know, the 15 year olds are all together, the adults are over here. Like that kind of separation, I think when you include everybody in that and then you're doing something that everybody can kind of do. Like you can. Everybody can go sit in, in a, in an uncomfortable hot sauna. And I mean, maybe some people less than other people, but we can all go and do the thing. So there's not like, hey, they can't do it, we can do it. Which I think that separ. I mean, I think a lot of our stuff comes from separation that we're even within. You know, I mean, you can go to. You can never feel more alone than you do in a giant city, and yet there's. That's where all the people are, where.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

People don't really care about.

[Laird Hamilton]

That's right. That's right.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Yeah.

[Laird Hamilton]

I mean, it seems like small communities do that and maybe we just have a little community.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Do you proactively invite people over or are people just like constantly say, can I come over, Laird? And you say, all right.

[Gabby Reece]

It's both.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Yeah.

[Laird Hamilton]

I mean, I think we have an open door. So we have an open door. And so all you have to do is. Is walk in. Right. So I think it's part of that, I think having an open door and then, and then energy attracts energy. Right. So a certain point you just find people that are curious, that are interested, and then, and then I have a, you know, I always talk to Gabby about it. I call it a honey line, which is if you find a bee, you. You follow a bee and it finds another bee, and then pretty soon there's a group of bees and pretty soon. And then you have the honey and so there. So, so it's a little bit of that or like minded people. Then they have a friend that, hey there, my friend wants to come over and you know the kind of person that, that they are, and then all of a sudden they bring a friend and coincidentally they have a similar value system or interest or do you ever.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Say to each other, enough of the friends, it's just going to be the two of us or is it always a hive of honey and love with other people?

[Laird Hamilton]

Well, we can just go to our room. Yeah, like so, so we can, we can just be like, hey, have a great time, see you later.

[Gabby Reece]

Sometimes I hide in my office or I don't have the capacity to, to do that. But it's that idea too. We've, we've both individually and, and as a family said we're going to make space for people. And part of being an adult, you know, is, is being that consistent that way.

[Laird Hamilton]

I think as hard as it, as hard as it is sometimes to be.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

An adult, you know, adulthood's overrated. Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I remember meeting you two and I will admit I was kind of intimidating. I didn't, I mean, I met you once at some Google event, but then we were tapped at another Google event to do kind of what we're doing right now, except in a big, you know, auditorium of people. And I'd read your bios and on paper you guys are intimidating as hell. I mean, you're Olympic athletes and you're a model and you've developed all these fantastic techniques and set these records around surfing and I mean, you are the type of people who you would expect to be snobby and better than thou. And I have to say I was 180 degrees off because, you know, Laird, I kind of consider you as like the consummate alpha male. And the adjective, when people ask me, what was Laird like? I said, well, actually he was kind of sweet. And you, Gabby, I mean, you're also very sweet, but you're also kind of, you know. I see he's kind of a tough minded part of the relationship here, maybe a little bit more of the dominant one. I might may or may not be right on that one. But anyway, I just came away from that conversation with you feeling like I've met people who've not only kind of mastered life master relationship, but understand what's really important when it comes to interacting with other humans. Do I have it kind of right?

[Gabby Reece]

You have parts of it, right? You have parts of it not so right.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I think give me the wrong parts first.

[Gabby Reece]

Well, listen, I think let's say you saw that I'm out. You know, when you're at a place like this, there just happens to be a lot of guys, right? And men around. And what I have found being around Laird and men like Laird is oftentimes alpha males are the sweetest ones. People get it wrong. You know. What is the quote from? To be a true warrior, one must be Compassionate, right. From Natural Born Heroes. So I think people think tough is. I'm tough. Really tough is not like that. And so Laird is very sweet. And then maybe I'm kind of the through line in the house. So that's well put. That tough minded thing you're seeing is I'm sort of have a through line and then behind me when it hits the fan is Laird. Right?

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

What do you mean?

[Gabby Reece]

So Laird can be playful and moving to and fro. He's also the. Maybe I would say if our mentalities. Laird would be more of an artist mentality, where I have a different type of mentality. I have my own creativity, but it's. It just shows up differently. So the freedom for Laird to be moving in the way that's best. We utilize Laird that way. But if like for example, a fire comes or something's happening, it's certainly gonna be Laird that handles it. So I think you're right. But my girls often say that people will say, which one of your parents is dominant? Cause they're curious. And both the girls say it's sort of like this weird dual, but it's more like, hey, you're. You go. No. Okay, you go. So it's dominance for the sake of what's best for the group in the moment, not for dominance sake. And, you know, humility. I don't want to learn the hard way. So if I. By being loving or humble or kind, it's also because hopefully I'm smart enough to know better by now.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah. Yeah. Well. And usually when you see people that are putting off a tough Persona is based out of fear, they're actually scared. And so they make up by holding a shield up. They hold their shield up. And I think for me, I feel like part of the relationship that Gabby and I have is she's the steady flame, right. And my flame's off or I'm a flamethrower. So it's like. So she's got the steady. She's the steady burn. And so you could, if you just observe it, you'd be like, oh, that's the flame. But then. But behind that flame is either a flame that's off or playing or. And then. And then it's the flamethrower. Like, so at the end of the day, if at the very end it's. It ends up probably being me at the very end of it. Just because part of that is a male thing. Like my. Maybe I have an ability to. To throw myself ahead of everything, like to the point where I'll I'll. I'll take it all and, and maybe I'll make it and maybe I won't. And I think it's a. I think a lot of it. We just, we seem to live out of our biology, like, as male and females. And, you know, every male has a feminine side and every female has a masculine side. And what are the balances that they have individually? And then what do you. And then how are the balances in the relationship? Like, how do we balance that more.

[Gabby Reece]

In a cooperation, when it comes really right down to it.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

But you're also incredibly disciplined. You work out for hours a day. You've been fantastically successful in business and in sports and in almost all. What is the origin of that drive? Is it. Were you born with that or did, did, did a parent instill it in you? Or did you have trauma? Or you're just a big dreamer and you fulfilled your own dreams or. Well, I, I guess, you know, most of the people listening to this podcast are, are looking for actionable. What can I do? What can I do to be in my mid-50s and in love and successful and have energy? I mean, I mean, where does it come? What's the origin of it?

[Laird Hamilton]

I mean, to, to your description or. I, I would say. Yes, when you said all those things, you said I would be. Yes. Like, was there trauma? Was, you know, did I have incredible people that had, you know, in my life? My mother was an incredibly driven and had energy beyond energy, you know, and then do you have, you know, aspirations, goals, dreams? I mean, I think it's all of those things. I think there's, you know, at different times, it's different pieces. And then also the. I think it's about the journey, that it's not about the destination. So it's a continual pursuit of. Pursuit of the relationship, pursuit of your own physical, spiritual growth, of your own development as a person. Your physical, like all of those things are a constant pursuit, not just a destination or an arrival. Like you've arrived and then you. You stop. So I think it's a combination of all of those.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

You mentioned trauma. Can you say what the trauma was and overcoming it. Was that part of the success?

[Laird Hamilton]

I mean, I think I didn't inhibit you. I, I think I've had.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I mean, other than being left at sea and, and.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah, yeah, so I've had friends, life and multiple little traumas along the way, whether they're injuries or what can you.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Say some of them that sort of stick out.

[Gabby Reece]

Well, I think you should start with you know, Laird was raised in Hawaii, loving Hawaiian culture and Hawaii. And if you ask him his culture, it would be Polynesian culture. But being an outsider, so I often say, like, as a witness, Laird has a deep love for the ocean, obviously. But part of maybe being accepted into that culture might have been by proving through surfing. So I think.

[Laird Hamilton]

So that's a piece of it, that. Being an outcast. I think. I mean, having Hooley or Holly, whatever. Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

If you look at his school picture, he's literally like, you know, the only.

[Laird Hamilton]

One of my kind. But so. So I think there's that.

[Gabby Reece]

I think.

[Laird Hamilton]

I mean, I think it's okay. Single mom, you know, that. That probably has a. You know, and I. And I. I'm never going to say poor me, but like, somewhat impoverished, you know, like growing up, being. Being impoverished, all of those different. Those different pieces that, that, that, you know, I mean, was that a gift.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

In a way, or blessing? How so. How does poverty blessing? Because I think a lot of people say. They say, well, I don't have money. I can't achieve what these guys, you know, Laird and. And Gabby, they live in Malibu. And. And now you're saying that actually poverty.

[Laird Hamilton]

Was a best thing. Best. I mean, it's terrible when you're in it. Like, everything. It's like being sick, you know, and it's terrible when you're sick, but as soon as you feel good, you're like, oh, my gosh, feeling good is great.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

But. But how does poverty catalyze to this physical success and this life?

[Laird Hamilton]

You realize that through that. Well, first of all, when you're. When you. When you're in an impoverished situation, whatever that looks like some greater than others, it's always about work. It's always about work. Let's not. There's no. You're not getting out of the work. Right? You're not getting out of the effort, whatever it is. If you learn a workout, if you're hunting, okay, you have no food and you're going to try to hunt so you can get food. You're probably going to hunt hard and long. You know, if you're. If you're trying to buy things and you have money, well, then you're going to need to go to work to earn money. Like, if you're trying to do. If you're trying to become good at something and get some sort of mastery in it, it's going to take effort. And that all starts with that kind of foundation.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

What would you say to a poor kid listening to you right now? How does he take that poverty and turn it into something that makes him a success or her success?

[Laird Hamilton]

Dreams come true. Dreams come true. And, and so you can do. I mean, of course, if you're five feet tall, you can't be seven feet tall, but you can achieve your dreams. You can. I mean, and let's be realistic. You have to have realistic dreams. Otherwise they're fantasies. And those are different. A dream and a fantasy, those are two separate things. Fantasy is you thinking you can become something that you're not capable of. But if you're realistic about your. What you can, you know what your dream is, you can. Absolutely. I mean, at least still there's a possibility in America.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Well, so there's a. There's a.

[Gabby Reece]

But I think there's something important. Go ahead. About that. Like, I, the way I grew up, I had the same situation, but in Florida, Right. No, I grew up actually first along Virgin Islands. Yeah, but first, not with my parents in Long island is you can learn a lot about the ways that you either don't wanna do it or how you could do it different instead of just being a victim to your environment, paying attention to what doesn't seem to work and figure out, well, what would work in lieu of this. And then also teaching young people if they're in these situations, typically, life gives us, I always say, low cards and high cards. What are your high cards? How do you play the high cards? Because what happens is we get stuck in, oh, well, this is. I was born to this, so I'm stuck in this. And the fact is, even though it might be harder because you know less people, you don't have as much opportunity, access, things like that. There's usually something in your deck that can get you out of it.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Fall might be my favorite time of the year in Wisconsin. The air turns sharp and sweet at the same time. I can hop on my bike or roll across the lake to catch the last colors of autumn. It's that perfect balance of movement and stillness. The kind of thing you find in every blue zone. I've studied in the world's longest lived places, people don't wait for the weekend to move their bodies. It's just built into daily life. Chopping wood, walking to a friend's house, gathering to cook together. Those little rituals that keep you strong and connected. When I head out for a trip later in the season, I'll open up my home on Airbnb so others can hike the same trails, breathe in that same crisp air, maybe even light a fire at the end of the day. It's the way to keep a place full of life even when I'm not there and share a little of what I love with someone else. Hosting fits naturally with my rhythm. Simple, purposeful, and part of sharing what I love most about this time of year. So if you have a place that sits quiet when you're not around, hosting it on Airbnb could be a rewarding way to share it and earn a little extra income along the way. After all, your home could do more than sit empty. It can help fund your next adventure. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how [e-mail] host.

[Laird Hamilton]

You know.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

The best trip I took in recent memory was a Divine trip. I gathered up 10 of my best friends and we took a trip to the Blue Zone with Duvine. They took of of everything. And as a cyclist who likes to have a bike that's working, who likes to eat good meals, and who likes to know what I'm seeing as I go, I could not have asked for a better experience than with d'.

[Laird Hamilton]

Vine.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

And not only that, it turns out that cycling is one of the best activities for longevity. It's one of the top three.

[Gabby Reece]

Why?

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

It's easy on the joints. You get regular, low intensity physical activity. It's not boring. It requires some balance, something you can do for the long run. You know. Divine believes cycling is for everyone. So they design trips for all levels of experience and they'll take you anywhere from easygoing bike paths and how into epic climbs in France. Plus they offer E bikes to make the trip accessible to everybody. And they and the support van is always with you for not only emergency repairs or water or snacks or to carry your extra gear. So whether you're a seasoned cyclist or a total beginner, if you're ready to give it a try, our listeners get $150 off per person. When you book your first Divine tour, head to divine.com livebetterlonger to book now. There is 50 million males who know who you are and who have a dad bod and they want to be ripped at your well throughout manhood. They want to look like women. 50 million women would like, love to look like you and have your physical prowess. Is there kind of a cake recipe? The ingredients, the specific ingredients. You can tell the average American what they could be doing to maybe not achieve your level of fitness success, but get close, have energy, be strong, have endurance.

[Gabby Reece]

I think to start out, if they're not lifelong, like we're lucky we come through Being lifelong athletes, I would actually get your hormones checked. I would start there. I would actually get a look under the hood. Because if you're saying people close to our age, if they're swimming upstream, it's very difficult. So maybe get that checked out.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Estrogen and testosterone, all of it.

[Gabby Reece]

Just get it checked. Because then at least you sort of know what you're dealing with and see if you can get that leveled out. And then all the practices. I mean, Laird wakes up and looks at the sun every single morning. Are you eating real food? How's your managing your stress? Moving your body consistently throughout a week? Huffing and puffing maybe at least two times a week. You know, I like that. And lift heavy things. Especially women. Women have got to get out of their mind. This idea of, I'm going to be too big. No, but lifting something heavy supports your system in a health way that I don't think that they really understand. Getting to bed. Nobody likes to hear it. I think avoiding alcohol is probably pretty supportive of moving away from having a dad or mom bod or whatever that is. But also, like, you talked about the relationships, laughing, being silly, having fun, trying new things.

[Laird Hamilton]

Having fun. You know, having fun, looking for something that you have fun doing that's fun. That's not. Because people can misconstrue fun with something that's negative. Like, I have a lot of fun when I go get drunk. That's not the kind of fun I'm talking about. I'm talking about doing something that you enjoy doing that's fun, that you'll. Because you'll do it more and you'll do it longer. You just will. You won't. If you're in a gym and you're like, okay, I'm going to work out, you look at the clock, you go, oh, I worked out for an hour. Okay, I'm done. I worked out for an hour. Instead of like, hey, I'm on a bike ride. Hey, I'm on a walk. Hey, I'm on a swim. Hey, I'm on a kayak. On some activity where I am playing tennis, ham playing pickleball. All of a sudden, you're like, two hours, three hours, four hours. I mean, you. You don't even look at the clock. You're like, this is having a great time. So I think. And that. And also. That also brings something else. I think that's almost immeasurable to the system. You have a community. You're doing with somebody else. You're. And then again, you're not counting the Thing, and then just that enjoyment. I think a lot of. A lot of what we're doing, because it's called working out. Right. It's not working in. And so in a way, a lot of playing out. Exactly.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I think you said something that's bigger than you think. So what I've learned from looking at these populations that actually live about 10 years longer than Americans do without cardiovascular disease, without obesity, without type 2 diabetes, none of them are going to a gym. None of them are doing triathlons. They just get. They just live their lives. And for an American, this idea if. If going to CrossFit is a choreography, you might do it for a few weeks or month, but then you're gonna quit.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Or you might want run one marathon, but check that off my list. But this idea of doing something every day that you love, I think that that insight is probably the biggest insight, because if you're not doing it pretty much every day for most of your life, it ain't gonna add years to your life.

[Laird Hamilton]

No.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah.

[Laird Hamilton]

Well, even gardening, like, hey, I'm a gardener. Hey, I'm in the soil. I'm touching soil. I'm growing something. I'm getting fulfillment. I'm getting the beauty, or I'm eating the food. I'm squatting in a position that's making my hips. Makes me. So I'm not gonna fall down and break my hip. And I mean, there's. I think there's so many things to.

[Gabby Reece]

But I also think Americans have a disadvantage in a different way. You're talking about these areas where the environment is conducive for that. Like, if we could just go back to living how we have, or we could. And so when we say the cake recipe, I think in a way, if you live sort of how people live here in the US you actually have to kind of do a little more.

[Laird Hamilton]

You have to supplement. You have to supplement your biology. Like what you would be getting naturally if you were living more harmoniously with nature, if you were outside more, if you're in the sunlight more. Because we've eliminated all these things, we're forced to supplement now.

[Gabby Reece]

We have to consciously get them.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I love that. I. Supplementing.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah, we have to.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

What else can you do? I think Americans, when it comes to health, we're at an enormous disadvantage. We live in a toxic food environment. 98 out of 100 food choices that we're confronted with, when you go to a shopping mall, for example, or even a restaurant, they're bad. We spend about 1/3, three times as much time in our cars than our parents did. We don't walk. So we've engineered almost all physical activity out of our lives. So how do you supplement the American life with the necessary ingredients so we can fulfill the capacity of our bodies both in energy and strength, but also in longevity?

[Gabby Reece]

Well, one luxury that we have that I want to point out is we live closer to nature.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

And so I think that it's really taking first that into consideration. And you said, yeah, our cars, but we also have blue light, we have EMFs, we have all kinds of things that we're combating and that visible stuff. And that could stress you out to the point where it's like, forget it. That's why if you have these practices that sort of boost you and fortify.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Practices, that's the important thing.

[Gabby Reece]

Go to bed early, wake up early, first. Have rituals rather than call them breath work.

[Laird Hamilton]

Taking long walks, like barefoot, like being. Keep going.

[Gabby Reece]

I love this grounding. I think, you know, eating, probably less eating when you're hungry. I think if you're a middle aged woman, by the way, fasting may not be your friend. So don't just do everything that men do. Your age, when you eat that food, how does that make you feel? I see when you move that way, how does that make me feel? Right. So Laird and I, even though we have some crossovers, we do certain things differently. We have a neighbor, we joke to be the CEO of your own health. You cannot expect for Laird and I to sit here and give you the formula and tell you how to do it. Experiment with your food. Try these different modalities, See about the sauna, see about walking, walking backwards, doing all these different things. How do you feel? Because that goes back into the internal practice, which ultimately is king, which is what's going on with me. How are my relationships? Do I feel satisfied in my life? What do I need to do different? Do I need to apologize to somebody? Do I need to confront somebody? And we're sort of. We've removed that as part of our health practice. And I think all of those things go together.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah. For me, I would. Because I'm a little simpler than Gabby. You can see that. In some ways. In some ways. Well, in the simplicity within this means the complexity within the simplicity lies the complexity, you know, so within the simple. Because the simplest things are.

[Gabby Reece]

You tell yourself whatever you need.

[Laird Hamilton]

But I would go, I would go just right to what? Light. Light. Being in the sunlight, having sunlight, conscious of what kind of light you're. You're being exposed to reduce the. The volumes of the negative light. Increase the volumes of the positive light. We know sunlight, no sunlight, no life.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah.

[Laird Hamilton]

You know, why are sun rises and sunsets so beautiful?

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Interesting.

[Laird Hamilton]

You know why they're beautiful? Because they're good for you. And then we said they were beautiful. It's like food that's really good for you. You go, this tastes great when it's natural, not before. We such a cool. So it's. It's good for you. So first light, then dark. Then you need the dark because. Yeah, we're. We're polarity.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

So we have watching first light blue light after.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. So first we need the good light, then we need the darkness. Then we need to be aware of the exposure of all the negative stuff. And then we need good water. Got to have good water. And our biggest thing with water is got to have water that, that you're trying to get good water.

[Gabby Reece]

Okay.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I live in Wisconsin. Where do I get good water?

[Laird Hamilton]

You could get to your house. You had good filtration. So tap water filtration, though.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Are you guys. Are you guys afraid of these plastic bottles and microplastics and.

[Gabby Reece]

I try not to be afraid of anything.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

I just try to move towards the things I think are probably a little better. Water that's been in plastic bottles and heated up and transported all stuff. It's sort of like, does it mean.

[Laird Hamilton]

If I'm not really thirsty I won't just grab a plastic bottle? So I'm not that crazy about like, oh, I just don't even touch it.

[Gabby Reece]

But it's not that. But it's not.

[Laird Hamilton]

What's your. What are you doing on a daily basis? It's the accumulation. It's like a little poison over a long period of time is a lot of poison. I believe that as you look at the priority that it gets further down the list. I think I've been fortunate personally. And both Gabby and I, because of our sports, because of our upbringing that we were in naturally in. We already had the foundations. We had this sun exposure. We had the. We had darkness in our houses. We were around minimal electrical bombardment of all kinds. And then, and then we had good water because we were on these islands and there was a lot of good water. So. And then we get into, okay, food and then we get into movement. I think is only after you had the foundational things.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

All right, I'm going to make you guys drill down on food and movement because that's what people are obsessed with. Of course, I'm of Course you said something important. Yeah, it was an accident.

[Gabby Reece]

No, no, no. And all of this stuff, you can't look at it as, with this sort of stress because that's what happens. People, they start moving into health, and then that becomes a whole new thing. One thing about Laird and I, separately, these are the things we do. And if they happen, because we do build a framework for them to happen most times. But when they don't happen, nobody's freaking out.

[Laird Hamilton]

But, but you want to be able to go.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

What are some of the, like, the details?

[Gabby Reece]

It's real food. Complicated. It isn't complicated. Everybody's made it.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I, I push back on that.

[Gabby Reece]

We really, we.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Well, we. We get about 350 marketing messages that rinse over our psyche every day. Super food.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

This fortified cereal. Americans are bamboozled. And you guys have seemed to have cut through a lot of the noise. And, and anyway, you've achieved the outcomes. Everybody wants you. You, by the way, you've lived twice the life expectancy of human beings for 99% of human history already. And you're in great shape and you're energetic, so you're obviously doing something right. And so what you, even what you feel is right has. And so do you. I mean.

[Laird Hamilton]

Well, I would go with plants in the world.

[Gabby Reece]

Oh, yeah.

[Laird Hamilton]

I would go with plants and animals first. Like if you made, if you made it real simple and you said, let's simplify it to make it. So. So you go plants and animals, which.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Means what do you eat for breakfast, for example? I don't, I don't.

[Laird Hamilton]

I don't usually eat breakfast because. Because I don't like to. First of all, when you eat, if you eat a big meal, it makes you tired. Yeah. And I'm not going to eat it. And so because you're. It makes you tired because you're digesting and that takes blood and work. So I'm not going to eat a big meal and then go and try to do an activity or multiple activities for hours on end. I want to be empty. I want to be somewhat empty. I, I personally.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

When's your first meal?

[Laird Hamilton]

Works for me.

[Gabby Reece]

You.

[Laird Hamilton]

It hasn't been yet. 12 or 1 12. 1 2. Just depends on the day. And then depending on activity, I might come out of activity and go right to fruit. But I start with a bunch of fat. I like fat.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I'm a big funny sounding. Here's this lean dude. I like to go right for the fat.

[Gabby Reece]

Coconut oil. Yeah, yeah. And without overhyping the.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

We do Caffeine full of fat, and then you're off to the races.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah. And I can. And I can. And I can go like if. With the. With the cups of coffee I drink with. With the products. Yeah, exactly those. So I get.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I'm drinking right now with turmeric.

[Laird Hamilton]

And I can drink. I can drink. I'll drink two of those in the morning. And I can. I can.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Sweet.

[Laird Hamilton]

For eight hours. I get coconut sugar.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Okay.

[Laird Hamilton]

But I can roll for eight hours on that. Like, I can definitely move six hours inactivity and somewhat high level activity without needing anything.

[Gabby Reece]

If I had an office job, I would either do that or I would. Don't you think stick to protein and healthy fat? I think for people in the morning, I think what's hard is if they do quick burning fuel, like if they do toast or cereal, I think that's a quick burning fuel with a sugar dump that crushes you. So I would stick rather than telling people it's like, this is how we start. But also, if they wanted something, I would start with a protein and some healthy fat. I mean, a lot of. I know you're plant based, so I honor that. So maybe it's some type of plant based yogurt or something where there's some fat in it and maybe even put in a supplement with a plant based protein. If it was me, I would say eggs and avocado, something where I was getting protein and healthy. And I would even drizzle some olive oil on there to get a little extra fat and some salt maybe. So just kind of actually encouraging people. It's sort of the liftoff of the day, if you can get that. Breakfast is a little bit of a myth. It was sort of fabricated probably by Kellogg. Right.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

So get you to eat cereal.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

And we've gotten emotionally attached to like, it's breakfast, it's lunch, it's dinner. So. But I honor that. Whatever people have going. And also to have the strategy to plan ahead. I think where we get in trouble is you're on the go. All of a sudden you go, I'm feeling something. And then you grab what's available to you. So maybe the more important thing would be, is to have a tiny bit of strategy if you're new to this and say, well, what am I gonna eat? Should I bring it with me? Or where's the place near my office that I can get the thing I need and want? So I think having the strategy is maybe a little easier for people and doing it the way they want, like Laird and I both do the coffee and the fats. But someone else might say, hey, but.

[Laird Hamilton]

She didn't do that in the beginning. I got her to kind of start doing it. I think it's.

[Gabby Reece]

I used to do the smoothies.

[Laird Hamilton]

I think it's up to. To people to have a little exploration in the beginning to initiate seeing what works for them. Yeah. And how. And how they feel. I've. I've benefited from the way I've approached it. I know Gabby has. And I have other friends that have benefited from my understanding. You're kind of either burning sugar or you're burning fat. Like, those are the two kind of things that you're rolling on. You're either over here in the sugar zone, which is why people.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

There's also something called glycogen. When you're. If you haven't eaten in 12 hours or so, you start burning this fairly simple carbohydrate. Yeah.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah. Which is good. Like if. When I'm done with activity, I go right to fruit. Like I like. That's the time for. The time when you're done with activity is then you can deal with sugar. And sugar goes into you and burns.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

What will lunch be? Or whatever you call that first meal of the day?

[Gabby Reece]

For me, it will probably have like some kind of meat and vegetable or eggs.

[Laird Hamilton]

Eggs and eggs and vegetables. A protein. And vegetables and protein. Pretty.

[Gabby Reece]

The one thing that we've learned, and actually even more having the brand is when you want to eat the good fat, you want to eat with protein, you don't want to eat it with too much carbohydrate.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Why is that?

[Gabby Reece]

Well, so the way you're sort of rewarded. The fat works best not with the sugar. So a lot of times what happens, people go, oh, I'm eating all this healthy fat, but they're also eating it coinciding with a carbohydrate. Now, having said that, so I just wanna bring that clarification. So if people start doing more olive oil, more avocado oil, more coconut oil, that they're doing it with a protein or the avocado with a protein, not necessarily with a carbohydrate. Now, having said that, if at night you will sleep better, you will recover better if you have carbohydrate, like a sweet potato or something like that. So I don't ever want people to be afraid of any food, especially if it's real food. But you could pull levers that work in your favor by putting them together.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah. The carbs and the sugar start to it's just. I'll give you the most exaggerated version is ice cream. Like that's, that's fat and sugar. Yeah, exactly. Which is. Which is amazing tasting and you know, and again, it's that a net positive.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Or net negative or kind of equally each other.

[Gabby Reece]

No, that's one of the worst combinations you can do.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Fat and sugar.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah, and dairy and sugar especially. So. So it's just giving people like a couple things. Like, hey, this thing that you love to do, is there either an alternative that's quite. Or can you just make sure it only happens once in a while? Yeah.

[Laird Hamilton]

Where the timing, where's the timing? Like, are you going to be able to burn it off or not? Are you just consuming that and then just sitting.

[Gabby Reece]

It's usually at night.

[Laird Hamilton]

So when I would do it right.

[Gabby Reece]

After I exercising, I mean, we, I.

[Laird Hamilton]

You know, I have a friend, Don Wildman, who started Bally's Health Clubs and just a savage guy that, you know, you know, we had a saying, a hot fire burns any kind of wood. So it's like I notice when I'm in a high physical kind of activity rhythm, my appetite is exponential. Right. It's just I get an exponential appetite and then when I'm on a low activity, I find myself not as hungry unless I've been kind of revved up. And you know, they see, you see a lot of professional athletes gain a lot of weight after they stop.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Sure.

[Laird Hamilton]

Stop their sport because they still eat the same way that they were when they were in their sport, but they stop the activity. They don't have the same activity output. So again, a hot fire burns any.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Kind of wood, but a hot fire also burns out more quickly. And I'm wondering, you know. 61.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Do you ever think about the intensity with which you train? And indeed might that be too hot a fire? If you. Longevity is something you might want.

[Laird Hamilton]

I'm looking for other ways to do it. So. Because at the end of the day, for me personally, I'm just trying to get tired. Like, I just know that I'm just, I'm a better person when I'm tired. I sleep better, food's better, I can tolerate bad behavior from my children. Like, I'm just, I'm just really, like, at the end, I'm just trying to get tired. If people were more tired, if, if the world was more tired, it would be a better one. Just because you just, you're tired, you're too tired to be like, you know, I really don't care about that. Like, I just need to eat. I just need to, to go to sleep, like. And so for me, how many hours.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Of working out sl playing out does it take you to get tired?

[Laird Hamilton]

Depends on how intense it is. I can do breath work intensely enough to get exhausted. So it just depends. I mean, if I'm in the ocean, I have a different gear for that. My body has developed over years, so I have an ability to get an energy from my system that I wouldn't get. But then I pay for that. Like, that's like, that comes with a cost when you have that kind of output. But a lot of, I mean, personally, my training has gone from just all grinding away to a little bit more. There are some kind of. That's where the pool work is so great because of the lack of gravity, compression, allowing blood to flow through the lymphatic system. I mean, there's all these great things that the water does to you. You do heat and ice, thermoregulating, you do breath work. I mean, these are supportive things. Yet they'll make you tired, but they won't undermine your joints and undermine your system. I mean, as far as longevity goes, you know, I think that, that everybody has a number. I don't know what my number is. You know, you could be healthy and 60 and get hit by a truck and you could be 110 and be smoking whiskey, drinking whiskey and smoking a cigarette. So you're like, you know, where is the thing? But it's like the quality of life, being able to do what you want to do. And I think it's. That's why it's important to have something you want to do. So then you have a reason to be able to try, to be able to do it. So you're working like, it's like, I want to be in the ocean, I want to be riding waves. And so I need to make sure that I'm doing everything I can to be able to continue to do that. Because if I lose that, then I lose the real driving force that besides feeling good and being tired, we're both friends.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I think of Mark Sisson.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah, I love Mark Sisson.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Yeah, he was on this podcast too. He's my neighbor, actually.

[Gabby Reece]

Good neighbor.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

But he's. He was one of these just hard driving athletes. Ran marathons and trained and pumped iron was ripped. He's still ripped at 71.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

But now he, he believes in walking.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah, he.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

He'll tell you that running is not good for you, that it increases your chances of cardiovascular disease and that it's catabolic. It doesn't burn fat like we thought it did as hard on your joints. And. And I'm wondering if there, you know, you guys have been on the forefront of all kinds of techniques to increase performance. I'm wondering if there's anything you guys have done over time where you've decided actually that wasn't that good for me or that you've changed your opinion on. I thought that was going to be really good for me, but it wasn't.

[Gabby Reece]

I mean, for me it was just repetitive motion. So volleyball was pretty had it. You know, you pay a price for that. I mean, Laird's not going to get away from that in surfing.

[Laird Hamilton]

Well, cycling for me. Cycling. I did a lot of cycling and it just hammered me, you know, shortened my. So as probably led to like an ace, like a knee ligament tear.

[Gabby Reece]

And that's why we have bikes without seats now. We take it.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Oh, yeah, I saw those.

[Gabby Reece]

We take them up the hill and then you're standing and firing your glutes and your psoas is extended and you're still going to work hard.

[Laird Hamilton]

Shorter periods of time. Yeah, shorter periods of time. More intense. Like, you know, look goofy. Yeah. I mean, I've done a lot of grinding over the years. Like long. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

That's what I'm asking about if that's taking a toll on your longevity.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

If you're. If you're ungrinding now.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah, I'm definitely ungrinding. I'm doing a lot of ungrinding. The. I mean, I envy a new person. So you're talking to a group like 50, 40, 50, 60, like getting into stuff. I envy that person because their joints are all intact. I'm like, wow, cool. Hips that work, knees at work, ankles.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

That work, shoulders start all over again.

[Gabby Reece]

Don't kid yourself.

[Laird Hamilton]

You know, so you look at so.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

So metabolizing everything you know about having worked out so hard, you know, peak performance and everything. But now let's just say I want to be 50 and ultimate health. What. What. What exercise regimen are you. Are you telling. This is. So remember.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

75% of Americans do not even get 20 minutes of physical activity a day. So that obviously isn't a. Isn't the route to longevity, but too much, you know, running marathons, isn't it either. So what's kind of the sweet spot for physical activity? If you want to hit 50s and 60s and be full of energy like you two.

[Gabby Reece]

Walking, lifting weights. But smart. You don't want to do overhead presses.

[Laird Hamilton]

And being in the sunlight. Like being in the sunlight. Like looking at. Like being up. To be able to see the sunrise. To look at the sunrise, to be able to see it and to be able to be in the sunlight for. I mean, just again, solar panel. You're a solar panel. You're charging your solar panel. You got to charge your panel every day. So you got to get in this in direct sunlight on your body every single day. I would just like, I just go.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Hey, that is so counterintuitive to what people think.

[Laird Hamilton]

Exactly, exactly.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Get. All of a sudden, you're gonna get melt, you know.

[Laird Hamilton]

Oh, yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

Do your walk at high noon. Maybe do it earlier or later.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Yeah. To your point. Sunset and sunrise.

[Gabby Reece]

And also, I think people don't, like, if they don't mind looking silly. You've probably seen the knees over toes. Guys like walking backwards. I think also what happens.

[Laird Hamilton]

I do a lot of reverse stuff.

[Gabby Reece]

But from sitting, we get so shortened.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

So as you get older, your knees are bent. You know, people stand and they front load, so their. Their quads are tight, and they're sitting into their knees the whole time. And then you start to shuffle.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I never thought of that. That's really.

[Gabby Reece]

And then you, you know, then it's the shuffle. Right. The gate changes. So by walking backwards, you strengthen the back of the knee, which helps get that extension. So add a flexion. I can see that it can be very, very helpful.

[Laird Hamilton]

You know, for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. And if you think of the volume of stuff that you're doing, like, I do a lot of reverse stuff trying to combat all the volume that I've done forward. So reverse cycling, a lot of reverse cycling. Just anything that's opposing, because everything we're getting pulled over. So if you think about, you know, opening the. Opening the system, you know, that you.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Look at people in gyms and they're. And they're doing the bench press and the curls, and it's all kind of curling more.

[Laird Hamilton]

When you get older, the fascial lines in the front of your body pull you over. That's why you get pulled. The hands get pulled in, the body gets pulled in, and you're just good. You're going back into the fetal. And so anything that can open up that system, that opposes it is going to be beneficial. What I've learned from being hurt right, over the years, being injured, is that you get hurt and then you go do all these rehab exercises. And I'm like, that's weird. Why do you do exercises only when you get hurt. Why wouldn't you be doing those as part of your training to help combat getting hurt?

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

So, so, so what are they?

[Laird Hamilton]

Just little weird stuff with light weights, Whether it's range of motion and stuff where you, you know, whether you're rotating. I mean, I've been hanging lately, hanging upside down. I mean, there's just there, you know, I, I mean, I have the fortune to kind of play with all of it. I mean, they say in China that the people walk 20 minutes a day backwards, that they do a lot of backwards work. They say in yoga that if the man who does 20 minutes of, of headstands or inversion masters time because you're com. Opposing all of the forces that are driving you down are pulling you up. So I think there's stuff to be said within that. But that's if you have that luxury. I mean, I think for most people the bit and especially in America right now, gotta get in the sun. Gotta get in the sun and, or, and you gotta get in the cold. You gotta be cold. Because if you don't have light, then you have cold. And cold is another force that helps make up for the lack of light, the way the system's set up.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Yeah, so Minnesotans should live forever.

[Gabby Reece]

No, but that's true though.

[Laird Hamilton]

But if they got cold, if they weren't wearing two downs and be cold like be.

[Gabby Reece]

Because that's booster. You make light in your mitochondria right from the cold. The cold makes light in the mitochondria, nature's compensation.

[Laird Hamilton]

So the lack of sunlight in the northern and southern latitudes. So where there's not enough light to charge the solar panel, it can be charged through cold.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

You know, I've made a career out of traveling to the world, to the statistically healthiest people, and through kind of anthropology and interviewing and science journalism, trying to piece together what produces, what are the constellation of, of factors that produce manifestly longer lived people. And you, I know you have a podcast and you kind of do that in your own way. You, you seemingly have found the amazing people, you bring them right here to your home. And I'm just wondering, of all these people you've had on, have you been able to distill out wow, that I didn't know that. And I'm putting that to work in my life.

[Gabby Reece]

What sticks out, what is so inspiring, is that whatever area they're coming from, whether it's a cardiologist or even a psychiatrist, psychologist, they're all coming back to the same principles of what makes people Healthy, either emotionally or physically. So if we, let's put sunlight aside, if we talk about chronic inflammation, right.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Inflammation is good root of every age related disease, chronic inflammation.

[Gabby Reece]

So if we can mitigate or manage chronic not being, you know, chronically inflamed, you want to stay glucose, you want to have a sensitivity to glucose. Right.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Which diabetics don't.

[Gabby Reece]

Right. And then metabolic and mitochondrial function.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

How do we, how do we augment that?

[Gabby Reece]

Well, this is, this is like sort of the way the cells communicate. So if we, if we are powerhouses.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

That turn your little batteries to the sun.

[Gabby Reece]

So it's like you start to realize like, you know, okay, your microbiome, these other things that we were talking about moving enough, eating reasonably, if we sort of just kind of spun that wheel over and over and then had people that we knew, we could call and we could go out in nature. It's like if people just sort of look at that story that way and not overwhelm themselves. And so I think what has shown up more and more though, is this idea of the importance of human connection. So I can get all scientific, but if we could start there, but I would say what, I would go a step further. The connection with ourselves and really sort of asking ourselves to have that relationship with ourselves first. And what happens is we're looking for a partner to make us feel satisfied, our children to do something, for somebody to tell me, me how to eat and how to move and all these things. I feel like if we could start with that relationship with ourselves and be in nature and help.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Well, let's hit reality. 70% of Americans are obese or overweight. 80% of them have some sort of metabolic syndrome. You take that average. Where do you start? If you're a housewife in Iowa right now and you look at yourself in the mirror and say, I don't look very good. I don't have much energy.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah, but that's not, can't be like, I don't look. It has to go back to, how do I feel? Okay. And so, and what I always say is, you have to approach it with the two gloves. 100% accountability. It's not gonna happen on its own. It's not gonna happen overnight. It takes a level of discipline and work. And unless we really cut the crap on that, that's just the way it is. And grace, because if you fall off the wagon on the 3rd, 5th day of your challenge, it's okay, big deal, go to bed, wake up, do your best the next day. But the problem is we have neither one. We're beating ourselves up in our minds, oh, you're no good. You're da da da da. And yet we're not taking full accountability. And so I think that these two things have to be with us at every moment. Because in some ways it is hard. Right. And like you have a kid and you have a job and you have a relationship and people are overwhelmed and it is hard. And if I don't take hold of this, it's not gonna fix itself. And so for me it's that it's both those gears all of the time, you know, but making excuses or I can't do that or whatever. Then you're right, you won't.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I wanna stress test you two on two almost opposing things I'm hearing from you. So in blue zones.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Nobody's working out.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Nobody's tapping into their discipline. Nobody is on a diet, exercise, program, a supplement. They're just living their lives. And you know, my central thesis is that longevity is way more a function of your environment than it is a function of your behavior modification. And I know you have this very successful business in xpt.

[Gabby Reece]

Xpt.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Xpt. Which really kind of relies on a, A program. Right. And, and, and then you learn. And the, the most powerful things I've heard talking to you today is sunlight. It's good social connection. It is not working out, but kind of playing out, to coin a phrase. I mean, that you're doing something you love. And, and none of these sound like they're they're work. None of them sound like they're a chore. They all seem joy based. And I'm just wondering when you juxtapose these two extremes in the approach to health. One is sort of doing what you love, but doing it every day. And the other is mustering the discipline and the presence of mind and the program and the resources. Where do you land?

[Gabby Reece]

Well, I think you don't realize on the Laird side at the output is treacherous. So it can be how it's all fun.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

That's not how he describes it though.

[Gabby Reece]

I know, but his relationship with discomfort is unusual. And so let's not play games in there. The output is brutal. So you know that works.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

That's not what he.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah, I guess. But that works for Laird and Laird's organism because Laird has a mission. And if what his mission requires is brutal, so he can't ha ha ha over here and then go do that, you will be ill prepared. So I think that's his language that works for him. And where he's gonna put himself. He's putting himself with places you and I are not putting ourselves. We're not putting ourselves in front of a 40, 50 foot wave.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

No, you could also be there, but.

[Laird Hamilton]

You could also look at. You could also just.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

But don't you laugh at the. Did I read you laugh at the wave?

[Laird Hamilton]

But you could also ask.

[Gabby Reece]

Ask.

[Laird Hamilton]

You know, you could also ask, what is the definition of fun?

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah, that's true.

[Laird Hamilton]

That's not mine. At the end of the day that I might find fun in, in xpt, like activities, like, I, I actually can enjoy those. Those can be games for me. Like if we pull train or we're lifting or something, I'm going to make it a game. I'm going to make it fun because I'm the lot. I'm not, I don't want to not have fun. I don't want to make it not fun. If I, if it becomes not fun. That's, I think for me personally, that's why I'm always changing.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Do I ever approach a workout as a workout or as a chore or is it always fun?

[Laird Hamilton]

Well, I'm trying to make it fun. If it becomes a chore, I stop wanting to do it.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

It's not interesting.

[Gabby Reece]

I'm conflicted when I hear this. So I gotta tell you.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah, and also, if you, if you talked about those zone, like you talk about the blue zones.

[Gabby Reece]

Oh, it's so fun. And I'm like, is it?

[Laird Hamilton]

Well, if you talk about the blue zones. Yeah. What's your definition of fun? But, but if you talked about those zones, okay, they don't work out. They don't do any of these things. Okay, cool. But let's put a heart monitor on them, let's put a walking thing on them. Let's do a thing. Let's see how long they're awake. Let's see all the things. Let's see how much activity that they did within that. That we wouldn't say. They didn't go to a gym, they didn't lift weights. They didn't the thing. Yeah, but the guy lifted 25 boxes of such and such at the farm. And then this guy went and. I mean, when you look at the output, you would be, you would be lucky to find somebody who was training at a gym on a regular basis and living his normal life here in this world that we live in that would be matched to his physical output per day. Because I have, I have guys that I grew up with that live on Farms and Mr. Konishi who lived to 105 and worked in the taro patch, which is like a rice paddy his whole life. And he was a savage. Like, he was a. But never lifted a weight, never went to the gym, didn't take any supplements. He'd wake up and eat an orange and then he would be in the field for the whole day. And so again, I. Well, he.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

He is our. He's where we should be looking for lessons, actually. Well, you know, you're right.

[Gabby Reece]

You're so. But the thing is. No, I don't dispute. We just are built. I mean, his is for his sport and mine is for sanity and a framework. Cause also, I train with a lot of people, so there's a community component when I train, which you probably love 100%. It's also like, hey, my kid's going through this. Do you know someone? Or the dog has a thing. So it's like you use that moment. But you are right. I mean, those people, the way they're living, that is. But we're so far away from that.

[Laird Hamilton]

So how do we're having to build community through these other things? We're having to build community through xpt, through high X. We're again supplementing.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Because I don't think the other people living in these beautiful homes and hills, probably we're compensating.

[Gabby Reece]

That train left so long ago. And the problem is, is people don't even have a sense of biology anymore. I always say that. That's the one thing I love too about learning about biology. Because at the minute, when you have the impulse to open overeat something, you don't have to go, oh, it's wrong. I'm disgusting. It's like, no, of course that's normal. You don't have to. But it's completely normal. I don't feel like working out. Right. Cause you're set up to conserve energy. It's all okay, so how do you just navigate the thing? And so I think you're 100% right. But we live. The problem is we are completely in conflict with our biology, the way we live.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah.

[Julia Louis-Dreyfus]

Well, hi, everybody. It's Julia Louis Dreyfus from the Wiser Than Me podcast. And I'm not going to talk about food waste this time. I'm going to talk about food resources. All that uneaten food rotting in the landfill. It could be enriching our soil or feeding our chickens because it's still food. And the easiest and frankly, way coolest way to put all its nutrients to work is with The Mill food recycler. It looks like an art house garbage can. You can just toss your scraps in it like a garbage can. But it is definitely not a garbage can. I mean, it's true. I'm pretty obsessed with this thing. I even invested in this thing. But I'm not alone. Any mill owner just might corner you at a party and rhapsodize about how it's completely odorless and it's fully automated and how you can keep filling it for weeks. But the clincher is that you can depend on it for years. Mill is a serious machine. Think about a dishwasher, not a toaster. It's built by hand in North America and it's engineered by the guy who did your iPhone. But you have to kind of live with mill to understand all the love. That's why they offer a risk free trial. Go to mil.com wiser for an exclusive offer.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Are you guys happy?

[Gabby Reece]

I don't, I don't strive to be happy. I think I feel a sense of peace. If I, if I can have peace, I feel good.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

If I asked you to think of your life as a whole, on a scale of 1 to 10, what you've achieved, what you, how few, how you feel physically, how you feel about your place in the earth, how satisfied are you with your life? On a scale 1 to 10, I had 20.

[Gabby Reece]

You're a 20.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Your wife's a 20.

[Gabby Reece]

I was thinking, I was like, because it is all such a surprise, right?

[Laird Hamilton]

It's like, whoa, I'm still here.

[Gabby Reece]

It's such a surprise.

[Laird Hamilton]

So it's a 20.

[Gabby Reece]

It's such a surprise. It's such an incredible surprise. I feel, you know, it's one of.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Those things, what your life turned out to be.

[Gabby Reece]

You mean, oh my goodness, what a surprise. What? I wasn't, you know, geared for this, built for this. No, it was all like, oh, okay, Just, you know, follow my instincts and oh, there's an opportunity. Take care of the opportunity. But just to have like healthy, you know, our children are dynamic women, young women. That's not to say it's not without its lessons, you know, to be ongoing challenges.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Gammy offered me her children to take off her.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah. I was like, yeah, good luck to you.

[Laird Hamilton]

Exactly.

[Gabby Reece]

See, actually, the fact that I'm in this long relationship is so surprising to me because I didn't grow up with people around me and if they were together for a long time, it was like they sort of had a little bit of tone of disdain for one another.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah, So I didn't know that that was gonna be in my cards, certainly. So, yeah, I would say a 10. Just. And even the real gift, to be able to pursue something that you really enjoy doing as part of your work, what a huge gift that is. And I only appreciate it more as I get older. It's even like, the relationship. I only appreciate the fact I met Laird more now than when I met him because I realized that that isn't so typical. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

The question I asked. Gabby, you think of your life as a whole. Where do you put your own life satisfaction? How satisfied are you with your life on a scale of 1 to 10?

[Laird Hamilton]

Well, first of all, I'm thankful that I'm here. I'm still alive. Right. And then if I look at. I start to go, hey, what I've been able to do, what I've been able to experience, amazing. Like, amazing. Like, I just go, like, amazing. Like, just one or two of the things for during a life would be awesome. And I have multiple. You know, the people I've been exposed to, the places I've gone, the things I've done. I mean, the family I have. I mean, I have three daughters that are amazing. I have an incredible partner that I love and respect. And, like, I'm like, this is, like, beyond my wildest dreams, you know? And so it doesn't mean shut down, doesn't mean, oh, cool, now just turn the car off now. The car's still on. I'm still running. But it's. But it's. If you said today, boom. It's. It's. This is it. Good job. Like, I'm ready to go up there and be like, hey, I hope it's okay. You know, like, I rode some waves. I mean, you know, I feel like I was part of the reason why I was here.

[Gabby Reece]

I feel like Laird runs between a 10 and a 2 constantly.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Well, what causes a 2?

[Gabby Reece]

What?

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I see the 10, I don't see the 2.

[Gabby Reece]

Oh. And I say that because I think, okay, I'll put it to you. I'll summarize it even simpler, and I'll.

[Laird Hamilton]

Finish it up after.

[Gabby Reece]

And this was a great lesson for me. I walked in one day, Larry was in the shower, and I looked at him, and he could tell by the look of my eyes. He goes, think it's tough to live with. He's like, try being like this.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

What was going on in the shower?

[Gabby Reece]

It's not that. It's when people have a calling, but they have to wait for conditions. In this case, you know. So Laird lives in this interesting place, which makes part of. Also. What's interesting about Laird is he's also waiting on Mother Nature. And so he is fully satisfied, happy. I know. I have a great life. He said that to me, too. That's the other really important lesson. I know how fortunate I am. I know how blessed my life is. And I'm frustrated.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Yeah. Always. I sense this ingredient as striving. You're both still striving?

[Gabby Reece]

Yes, but he's waiting. It's different. I think I'm striving different. He is. Well, because waves don't just show up.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I might be waiting to get pain, metaphorically, in life.

[Gabby Reece]

No, I'm talking the actual. Get my rig, get in the ocean, ride the things that will actually enthrall me and excite me. These conditions are. Are pretty infrequent.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Yeah, but what if you never rode another wave in your life?

[Gabby Reece]

We would not be married.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Really? I mean, are you serious?

[Laird Hamilton]

There's a great stuntman that once said, oh, my God, there's one. There's a stuntman that said, never let your memories be bigger than your dreams.

[Gabby Reece]

Oh, no, you don't understand. It's not like it's. No, if Laird didn't. If you said, today, Laird. And he. Let's say he lives another 40 years.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

It is not good if there's not waves.

[Gabby Reece]

There's a. There's a part of that recipe that's real, and it isn't about, like, I have to do it the way I used to. I need people to know. I need you to understand. It's like, for the sake of doing it.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Flow, as they call it.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah.

[Laird Hamilton]

Sir.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

It's not so easy to get bored, but not so hard you can't do it.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

There's this famous psychologist that coined this term, well, flow.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah. Well, flow state is also when it becomes.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Said his name was Mihail Czechsick me high.

[Gabby Reece]

That's right. That's right.

[Laird Hamilton]

Well, and also, flow state is a position where you're unconscious. Yeah. You're not consciously doing. Because you have done it for long enough that it becomes instinctual. And so you're able to do it without actually knowing what you're doing. You don't need to know what you're doing. You just act. Know how to do it. You.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

You Google U2, and it's just picture after picture of stud and beautiful and accomplished. And there's another. There's another side of you two that is vulnerable is you. Hardship. You've been through a Point something that's been difficult.

[Gabby Reece]

Listen, we almost got divorced in 2000, paperwork and all.

[Laird Hamilton]

Wow.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah. Is that good? That was good. He liked that one.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I did see that.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah. Damn. We almost got divorced for real.

[Laird Hamilton]

He had his shovel out.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I'm not looking.

[Gabby Reece]

Dan, you're just teasing.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I'm very vulnerable. I know. So we're humble and apologetic.

[Gabby Reece]

No, no, don't do that. That's fine.

[Laird Hamilton]

No.

[Gabby Reece]

So what happened there is. Who had. We didn't know. We didn't have the skill set. We were together for five years, and I was deathly afraid of relying on another person. You know, I didn't always live with my parents. I was very much like, relying on myself. Laird is, you know, open hearted and like, all the way, let's go and see what happens. And I got scared and ran away when there was a conflict or I didn't know how to have conflict or speak up for myself or say what I wanted and needed or whatever the million things were. So, yeah, I'd say we went through a really.

[Laird Hamilton]

Well, you don't. First of all, you. It's. It's called a relationship. And when you're in a ship, there's storms, there's nice water. I mean, you go through the thing and then you just have to decide if you. If it's worth it to you. And I think a lot of people have a tendency, as soon as the water gets rough, they just jump off the ship. They're like, hey, I don't want to be on this boat anymore. And I think for us, we went through, you know, we've had. And it's been. We've had tests along the way in the journey to decide, hey, you know what, you want to stay on this boat together and try to deal with it. And regardless of. Of, you know, your ego or whatever things that are involved or you can't handle, I mean, I think a lot of it speaks to what's been beneficial, is that we have a certain work ethic.

[Gabby Reece]

Yes.

[Laird Hamilton]

A work ethic that we can implement into different things, like our relationship. Like, we've been through hardship.

[Gabby Reece]

I said that actually, when he asked us that, I thought, you know, what's weird is it sounds counterintuitive, but it is also part of the discipline to go. First of all, I think both Laird and I separately probably have the belief that we chose pretty well for, like, I believe this is a good choice for me. So it's like having the right program. You'll work it, right?

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

I wanted to say that We've seen couples where maybe after 10 years or 15, maybe it's just not the thing anymore. That's okay, too. I think that that's part of it, is where you go, all right, something's not good here. Let's get it there. Like, what's it gonna take? How many conversations, how many do I need to make a change that seems reasonable? It's like, all those things, and part of that is that ability to be kind of tough and. And discipline and say, yeah, all right, let's go.

[Laird Hamilton]

And maybe survive long enough to actually get to a thing where it gets unbelievably great. Imagine that, like, you actually. You survived long enough that you got to a place where it's like. It got. It gets awesome, and then you're like, wow. But you would have never even known that had you just been like, I.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Can'T give up early, of course.

[Gabby Reece]

But we're in a next. We're in a new chapter right at this exact moment. No, it'll just be interesting to see.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

Because our youngest daughter's about to move out in a week.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

The open nester.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah. So it'll be interesting to see because now we'll have this supposed. You know, such a monumental, cathartic new stage. But I think the other side that you're maybe not seeing or addressing is we're both in a different way, pretty selfish.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I don't see that.

[Gabby Reece]

So that's what you're missing that you're not seeing.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I hate to say there's nothing about this conversation that needs to be seen.

[Gabby Reece]

No, but that's why you're missing it. A level of selfishness that both Laird and I have, that we will. It's an unyielding thing. So we're not. It's like, you don't surrender that for anyone or anything, and that also gives you this capacity. So I think to not make it sound so Pollyanna. And great is the selfishness, the ruthlessness.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

You invite people into your homes, you mentor kids, and that's easy.

[Gabby Reece]

But what child's play.

[Laird Hamilton]

That's the selfish act of giving. That's the selfish act of giving, but.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

That'S also nothing besides the selfish act of giving. How are you selfish?

[Gabby Reece]

I am so selfish. I have not. I am here to be of service to my family, and I have not surrendered who I am and the level of being selfish that that takes to just hold that one little piece of real estate for myself, because I know if I don't do that, I can't do the Rest. Laird's quest, his journey, his calling. Everyone in this. Everyone in this family knows, and we all, like, celebrate it. Let me pack your bags for you. I will never get in the way of that. I'm here for you because, by the way, we're not told or taught as young people that we can have some healthy things to be selfish about. And women, it's even worse. It's like, really encourage them. If it's not destructive to the people in your life or yourself, man, fight for that. And so what I think what you're not picking up on is how selfish we both are.

[Laird Hamilton]

It's mandatory. It's, like, mandatory if. Yeah, I mean, because it's the way that she can be whole and I can be whole, and then together we can be together. It's not like.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I think that's a fairly novel concept, this idea that selfishness is actually a little bit of it's good, or maybe a lot of bit of it's good, but that we need to hold our selfishness sacred. Well.

[Gabby Reece]

And how can I expect you to be accountable if you're not selfish? If I'm saying to you it's on you to figure it out, work it out, find the thing, whether it's in your movement, life, your relationships, the ways you want to be of service, all the things. If I'm requiring you to be totally accountable, then the flip side of that is you then need to be selfish at the same time. And I think in athletics, it is very.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

And I come from an Italian family, and selfishness is frowned upon. You're here for the family, and you can expect everything from the family, but they'll expect everything from you. So to hear the selfishness, I actually agree with it, and I honor it, but I don't think you. I mean, I've been marinating in happiness research for. For 15 years, and I've never heard anybody put. Yeah, selfishness is part of the secret to happiness.

[Gabby Reece]

Brutal. Because if you don't know yourself, if you don't ask yourself, how do I feel? What do I want? How can I help? How can I support those other great questions genuinely come with the first brutal questions. I think that's just been my experience. I could be wrong.

[Laird Hamilton]

I mean, it's got us to today. I don't know what tomorrow's gonna bring.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah, Come in, like, couple months.

[Laird Hamilton]

So coming two years after this, who knows what happened?

[Gabby Reece]

That's right. So far, so good.

[Laird Hamilton]

Right now.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Here we go.

[Gabby Reece]

We take it day by day by day. Day by day.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

We started we made it to 2 o'.

[Laird Hamilton]

Clock.

[Gabby Reece]

Day by day.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

We started this conversation when I. When I asked you what the secret of a successful relationship was, you said, mutually assured destruction.

[Laird Hamilton]

That's right.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

So this is a piece of relationship advice.

[Laird Hamilton]

Exactly. Well, that's right. And be selfish. Here we go.

[Gabby Reece]

You know, I'm not. I'm not. And also, I'm not Laird's mother, and he's not my dad.

[Laird Hamilton]

Didn't I tell you that?

[Gabby Reece]

You told me I wasn't your mother.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah, I had one.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah. And sometimes, like, I get lumped in with our daughters. She's like, you all. And I'm like, yo, I'm not your daughter.

[Laird Hamilton]

You know, I like to generalize. It's very fun when you're in a house of women and be like, women are. And they all turn their heads. How are we? Then I'll just throw chum out.

[Gabby Reece]

And they're brutal. These are powerful girls. And they all look at their dad, and I'm like, oh, here we go.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

He's a chum.

[Laird Hamilton]

I just go in the garage and cry.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah. So I think it's.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

There's a vulnerable moment.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah.

[Laird Hamilton]

Come back up.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah. It's not selfish without the. Without the notion of being of service.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

You wake up every day and you go, I'm going to try to just show up as my best self in the world. And so that means in all the ways. And I don't think, well, you know, I've done this already, and I've already done this. It's like, nope, today's a new day. I'm gonna wake up today, and in all the ways that I show up, I'm gonna try to be the best version of that, Whatever that looks like. And I'll do the things that support that to the best of my ability. I'll probably blow it and say sorry to somebody or fall short or whatever. But I think it's that for me, personally, it's like, okay, today.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

But you have this sort of mutually assured destruction I'm getting. You know, both of you two are among the most beautiful human beings on earth.

[Gabby Reece]

You.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

There must be temptations. You must have had women come up to you, Laird, and you must have had men. And is. Is the idea that if one of you cheats, then there's going to be some sort of.

[Gabby Reece]

Oh, it's not that kind of thing. It's not that mutually assured destruction. It's like, it's somebody who sort of like, I'll give you an example. Laird lives by a standard where he is very, like, so of service, so helpful. So everything that you could ask for. And I always tell my youngest daughter, and your dad would tell me to f off tomorrow. And so mutual assured destruction is two people living by a code that is like, oh, I'm so sorry. That way that you're speaking to me is. Is not going to work or that action or whatever. So it isn't walking around with a club or telling somebody they better. But it's like, if I'm going to be in this environment, then it's going to need these things.

[Laird Hamilton]

Well, and working around with a club wouldn't work well with either her. We're like, that's the. We're not the people to try to use a club against, because that's going to have the counter effect. And I just don't like to hurt my heart. I like my heart to feel good. So I protect my heart. And so I'm not into, you know, doing anything that's gonna damage my heart.

[Gabby Reece]

Well, I did ask Laird. I can say it directly. Why are you into being monogamous? Cause it is. It's really strange, right? Like, you and when I met Laird when he was younger, it was like all these things. He goes, cause I wanna be happy. So somewhere in Laird's male wisdom, he has sort of looked at all the ways you can do it and thought, in the long run, monogamy is what it is.

[Laird Hamilton]

Well, there's a reason why they set it up like that. Like, it should be something simpler. There's a reason why. Well, what's that reason in your. It's in your best interest.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

It's just, how is it in your best interest? So complicated.

[Laird Hamilton]

It's called how is it in your best interest?

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Men are sort of genetically hard.

[Gabby Reece]

You're right. You're totally right. It's completely unnatural.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

Right. But I think if you all of a sudden are going to say, hey, let's bring children into the world, and we're gonna do the. It's like, we're in this cooperation. There's something. And maybe other people find it a different way, and I'm all for it, but in certain personalities, if I'm gonna show up the way I'm gonna show up for you and, like, have your back and do all the things to, like, see how much we can bolster you. It just makes it simpler if we're also now not dealing with a different personality. Now having couples might have different arrangements. And I think it's totally fine. I think for us, because we Are also very intense. Very intense.

[Laird Hamilton]

I mean, having.

[Gabby Reece]

Well, Larry and I think is dealing.

[Laird Hamilton]

With one woman, like, having just one. You know, what do they say? Easy to please many women once, but try to please one woman many times. So that's a real. That's a real challenge. Yeah, it's easy. Yeah. Yeah, you could. That's child's play, you know, so it's like. So, I mean, at the end, you know, I don't know. Everybody has their own way. They want to. You know, how they want to live. I just. I don't. I don't. I don't want to. I don't. I'm good. Like, if we. And if things are different tomorrow. They're different tomorrow, but.

[Gabby Reece]

That's.

[Laird Hamilton]

Right. But, you know, I've chosen to. To want to do it the way, you know, the way I'm doing it.

[Gabby Reece]

I think another point that's made it easier is, you know, it's like we want all these things, like, oh, I want to be fit, and I want to have an exciting relationship, and I want to have fun and make my home a place that people want to. Well, then you just have to be those things. I think people are expecting it to happen or the other person to do it. And the other part of that is I think you can sort of make it more of what you want it to be when you're trying to do the thing. If I want it to be a loving and nurturing relationship, if I try to be loving and nurturing to Laird, it feels like that's kind of what comes back my way.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

And so I think that if people practice that a little bit in their life and just try and see how it works with a friend or, you know, in a relationship, it's amazing how quickly the other situation is responsive. And if they don't, then you just go, I don't think it's working out.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Yeah, I got the wrong one here.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

How do you resolve conflict? And I'm guessing that happens once a month. Yeah.

[Laird Hamilton]

Quick and quickly. She might sleep on it, and then I'll hear about it in the morning.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah, yeah.

[Laird Hamilton]

But. But that's rare. Usually she'll. I get her to come on and just. I mean, for me, I feel like I. Personally.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Or do you just.

[Gabby Reece]

We're not quietly. We're not. We're not good bickering people.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

And by the way, that's not. Doesn't mean it's the right way.

[Laird Hamilton]

Usually I make a snide comment, and then I have to apologize that's kind of how it goes.

[Gabby Reece]

I think.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Charleston Heston once was asked the secret to a 50 year Hollywood marriage. And. And he said three words. I was wrong.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yes. Or I am sorry.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

I have learned to apologize, though. I have. I always say Laird taught me how to apologize because I was too scared to apologize. Because, you know, it's. It's like you have to be brave and you also have to believe the other person won't and not run you over the head with it.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah. And not having to be right.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah.

[Laird Hamilton]

Not having to be right. Not having to be a victor every time. Like, I think that's a big thing. I've heard. I heard once, you know, be, be right 10,000 times and see what kind of relationship you have. I just think being right is like, okay, goes it. That is that important? Like, is it that important for you to be right? Did like to be right. I'm going to be right and I'm right. And it's like, okay, cool. But at a certain point about what.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

You don't win anything.

[Gabby Reece]

No. And a sense of humor. Yeah, that's helpful.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

Because sometimes it's all absurd, you know, like, you just go like, okay, yeah.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

It's segregation.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yes. Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

I mean, listen, at the end of the day, nobody has an answer. Everybody has only their own answers. And I think that maybe that's the task. How do you find the things in all the things that. It works for you.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

That's right. I think just hearing other people's answer makes you think about your own answer. There's no absolute. I think there's a lot of wisdom in your life. These Hawaiian values that you metabolize, this huge embrace of other people and other family and young people, this instinctive knowing that the environment is part of your happiness, water and sunlight. But also knowing that striving and a little bit of stress often yields happiness. You talk about hormesis in your saunas and your cold plunges. You know, that's another form of stress. It's not comfortable to jump in 32 degree water or whatever, but you do it because at the end of the day, you feel a little bit better because you've done it. And I think there's wisdom in that for all of us.

[Gabby Reece]

I also feel that, for the most part, Laird and I, really, what makes us feel good is pretty simple. I don't think it's that complicated. I don't. You know, as far as, like, the needing and the wanting and all the things, I think both of us, maybe it's growing up on islands, the pursuit was for the sake of the experience or the creativity, not to, like, maybe get something.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Yeah. So your success is a byproduct of your passions, not the pursuit?

[Gabby Reece]

I think so.

[Laird Hamilton]

Yeah.

[Gabby Reece]

I think so. Yeah.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

I could sit here all afternoon, right through dinner, but I know you got something going on this afternoon. But you guys, so generous to let us in and open up your brains and your hearts and be a friend, really Gabby, especially, you know, we just met, really, one time, and you've been so lovely and of course. Thank you.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

Yeah. You're very inspirational.

[Gabby Reece]

Well, thanks for. Thanks for coming here. And, you know, what did John McEnroe say to you?

[Laird Hamilton]

He said, don't be offended when somebody wants your picture, but start worrying when they stop.

[Gabby Reece]

Yeah. So in a way, it's always our honor.

[Host (possibly Dan Buettner or a similar health/longevity journalist)]

That's right.

[Gabby Reece]

You know, it's always our honor. Let go someone you know. So thank you for your time and bringing your crew here.