← The Dan Buettner Podcast
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- [00:00]
Maria Shriver
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- [01:06]
Dan Buettner
Maria Shriver. You're part of the Kennedy dynasty, and I think people perhaps think that this is privilege and ease.
- [01:13]
Maria Shriver
I didn't grow up with people talking about privilege. I grew up with people talking about service. Why do we still have ageism? Why in this country are we so afraid we of the old? Anybody who's as driven as I was is probably dealing with some demons.
- [01:32]
Dan Buettner
Well, this is a thrill for me because I'm usually on the other side of the microphone. In fact, some of my finest moments were on the other side of the microphone from you when you were a. Well, I guess you still are somewhat an NBC correspondent and anger somewhat.
- [01:47]
Maria Shriver
Yes.
- [01:50]
Dan Buettner
I think the very first time we met was in the Nicoya Peninsula of Costa Rica.
- [01:55]
Maria Shriver
We met on the plane, it landed.
- [01:56]
Dan Buettner
In a very remote part of Costa Rica. First day here, you're like this big time journalist and all of a sudden we're in these little villages, people cooking out of earthen pots. I took you to an outdoor kitchen where there's flies all over the place. It starts raining, we're ankle deep in mud. And you remember that?
- [02:15]
Maria Shriver
Yeah, of course I do. Yeah.
- [02:16]
Dan Buettner
Well, what do you remember that trip?
- [02:18]
Maria Shriver
I remember being really happy on that trip. Really? I remember why going. Really? Yeah. I mean, I loved, first of all, I loved traveling. I loved traveling with you. I loved the whole premise of what you were doing and what you are doing. I loved meeting people in their element, in their families. We were being welcomed into their homes, learning about their lives. I grew up traveling like that with my parents. My dad started the Peace Corps, so he was always taking us to places like that and into homes. So it made me feel, in a funny way, kind of at home. This is the kind of trips that I grew up going on. I spent two summers, one in Tunisia, one in Senegal, living like that. And so I really liked it. I thought it was great. I didn't like all the food, but I liked a lot of the food. And I liked, you know, meeting the people and looking at the importance of family on those trips, which I really believe in. And it just, when I think of that trip, I think of being happy on it.
- [03:33]
Dan Buettner
Yeah, I was so impressed because I thought that you would be uncomfortable given it, you know, semi third world. We were worried that the hotel wouldn't be nice. Turned out to be very nice. But the food and it was rugged, it was hot, and we went from early morning to late night and it was, it was just such a joy.
- [03:51]
Maria Shriver
But I liked that. That's what. Who knew? Who knew? Well, actually people who know me know. And as I said, I grew up doing that, going to places like that with my dad. And as I said, I lived two summers, one in Senegal and one in Tunisia, in a rough and tumble situation. My parents sent me there so that I would understand. I was 15 and the next year I was 16. But I lived in the Medina and in Tunis. And they wanted me to understand the work of the Peace Corps. They wanted me to understand how people lived. They sent me to live in a hogan on a Navajo reservation. They sent me to live in Bethel, Alaska. So they wanted me to experience the work that they were doing at large and they wanted me to experience the world at large. And both of those countries were French speaking. And I had lived in France a couple of years before that. Cause my dad was the ambassador to Paris. So they wanted me to keep up my French and then also just to be aware of the world around me and be grateful that I had a working toilet, that I had working water. Because the places they sent me didn't. I don't know if it was really smart to send a 15 year old girl to Tunis. I don't know what their thinking was about that, but you know, that's a whole other story. But they believed in kind of grinding and grit and being tough and understanding the world at large.
- [05:25]
Dan Buettner
You know, you're part of the Kennedy dynasty and I think people perhaps think that this is privilege and ease and it really wasn't, was it?
- [05:33]
Maria Shriver
Well, I think it's definitely privilege for sure. You know, you grow up in a family like that and I think people would think I'm nuts if I said there wasn't privilege to it. But I think every family has their stuff, has their challenges. I certainly grew up with the message, to whom much is given, much is expected. And my grandmother drilled that down into her children, who drilled it down into their children.
- [05:59]
Dan Buettner
For those who don't know. Who was your grandmother?
- [06:01]
Maria Shriver
My grandmother was Rose Kennedy, and she would always just say that to me every time I'd see her. To whom much is given, much is expected. I love that phrase. Yeah, it's a great phrase. And so I didn't grow up with people talking about privilege. I grew up with people talking about service. I grew up with people talking about making the world better. I grew up with people talking about public office, running, giving yourself to others, understanding how the world lives, understanding different religions, understanding that you had a responsibility to make the world better, that you were lucky, that you were blessed. The word privilege now is used. But I grew up conscious of that and have been kind of in one way, shape or form in service since I was little. Everybody's life is different, and certain things are easier for some people. Certain things come with a lot of complications and a lot of experiences that one has to learn to handle. But I'm not one to complain about it.
- [07:09]
Dan Buettner
When you were a teenager, young teenager, in Tunisia and Senegal, and your friends perhaps were in boarding school, were you jealous? Did you wish? I wish I could just have a normal childhood.
- [07:23]
Maria Shriver
Well, that was a normal childhood to me. So I didn't, you know, as I said, I didn't, you know, it was the only childhood I knew. And I knew that I did wonder why I was in Senegal or why I was in Tunisia. And I did think it was a mistake for my parents to send me there. But, you know, looking back at it, it certainly was a life defining. Both of those experiences certainly toughened me up, certainly made me very aware of how the world lives. I lived with a family. There were like 10 of them, all in, like, a little room in the medina, which is a. If you've ever been to Morocco or to. It's like a labyrinth. And I walked through that every morning and every evening. And I definitely wouldn't send my daughter there.
- [08:21]
Dan Buettner
Yeah.
- [08:21]
Maria Shriver
But. So I think it was a. Certainly a formidable. Both of them were formidable experiences for me. And maybe they prepped me for journalism. Prepped me.
- [08:33]
Dan Buettner
I was going to ask that.
- [08:35]
Maria Shriver
The political world. I went. They prepped me. I also had four brothers who prepped me. But those experiences definitely prepped me.
- [08:43]
Dan Buettner
I think there's no better experience to really understand the world and understand not only our country's place in the world. But our place in the world than by getting out of it, out of our immediate environment and traveling, and especially traveling to difficult parts of the world, places where people have less than us. And I find that you discover that no matter where you go, people at their core are good. Whether they're Muslim or Jewish or Palestinian or Russian, whatever. They're good people. They love their children. The same things that make us laugh make them laugh. And it's very hard to think about war. It's very hard to think about shooting another person or sending a bomb when you've lived in these countries. And I wish every American had that opportunity.
- [09:30]
Maria Shriver
Well, I feel very blessed that my parents really had a home where they welcomed people of all faiths, all religions. When my dad was starting the Peace Corps, he made sure that men and women had the same opportunities to go to the same countries, to do the same kinds of jobs. That was very unusual. And they really talked a lot about different faiths, different religions. They talked about being pacifists. They talked about anti nuclear war. They had people at the table of different political parties, different skin colors, different traditions, and they never talked about people being bad. They never talked about people. I remember my dad saying, if you understand different religions, you will be able to understand the world. And so my parents were very adamant about the vacations we went on, were working trips to countries where things were going on. So we'd go to El Salvador and meet with leaders of El Salvador, went to Israel. My parents put me in a kibbutz that was all men. I don't know why they did that either. And I ended up hitchhiking with my brother across Israel to get back to the hotel, once again explaining to them they had put me in the wrong situation. They would like, let's go meet Golda Meier. Let's go. You know, the Berrigan brothers, who at the time, you know, kind of social justice warriors within the Catholic movement. They, you know, Hans Kung, Michael Novak. All of the people that they put at the table were intellectual, were what they now call thought leaders. They were people who challenged the status quo. But they were fundamentally good people and that they would teach us that, you know, people of different political parties were not to be hated.
- [11:26]
Dan Buettner
There's a concept.
- [11:26]
Maria Shriver
Yeah. And so I grew up with that message. I grew up, as I said, with Democrats and Republicans at the table. Latinos, black, white, Asian, different, you know, Muslims, Catholics, you know, Buddhists, and that's the world I grew up in. So I still believe that people are fundamentally good, and I still believe that it's really important to try to find things that we agree on. And find common ground and start from that place. And that is reflected in all the work that I do, I hope.
- [12:04]
Dan Buettner
Did you metabolize that childhood into journalism or did that come, the idea to be a journalist, come later?
- [12:11]
Maria Shriver
The idea for journalism came when I was on the campaign trail with my dad in 1972. He was.
- [12:17]
Dan Buettner
We should tell people. Your dad was.
- [12:18]
Maria Shriver
I'm gonna.
- [12:19]
Dan Buettner
Yeah, shut up, Dan.
- [12:22]
Maria Shriver
Or you can say who he was. You can say who he was. He was the vice presidential candidate in the McGovern Shriver campaign. So he was the Shriver in the McGovern Shriver ticket. Sergeant Shriver. So on the campaign plane, I sat in the back with the journalists. And he and the political operatives sat in the front. And I thought, wow, all these people back here are having fun. All these people back here are basically telling the world what the person in the front thinks. They're directing the narrative. They're telling the story. And it seemed to me that that's where not only the power was. But where the influence was and where the story was. And so I decided then and there I want to be in the back of the plane with these people. 1. Because, as I said, they were having more fun. The career was something that was forever changing. And I wanted to find my own way within my family. I didn't want to go and do politics because that's what everybody was doing. They were going to law school, going and running for office. And I wanted. From a very early age, I'm an only girl. And I wanted to carve out my own path and find my own identity in a larger group.
- [13:38]
Dan Buettner
And what was your first job as a journalist?
- [13:41]
Maria Shriver
I was. Well, I worked at KYW in Philadelphia. And I worked on the assignment desk. I was an intern. It wasn't a glorified kind of job. And you'd listen to the radio and you'd go out with reporters. You'd log their tapes, you'd get their coffee. I worked in the local newsroom and just kind of watched all the different kinds of jobs that existed in local news. And decided I did not wanna work in local news. And then I went to another station in Baltimore where I was a sound woman and a producer.
- [14:14]
Dan Buettner
You've always been a sound woman in my mind. That's good.
- [14:19]
Maria Shriver
Yeah. And then just kind of started weaving my way through all the different jobs that existed. So that I would know how to light, I would know how to do sound. I would know how to Ed, I wouldn't know how to write pieces. I was a producer for many years, then I became a reporter, then I became an anchor woman, then kind of worked my way up, but I wanted to work my way up, so I knew that I deserved to be. When I got to the anchor chair, that I had done the work to get to the anchor chair.
- [14:49]
Dan Buettner
Our producer, Pat Weiland, just told a story of you covering the O.J. simpson trial. And it was breaking news. You've just been 12 hours of hearings, and you sat on a curb and wrote out the opening of the NBC Nightly News. I mean, that's a real journalist.
- [15:05]
Maria Shriver
Yeah. I am proud of my journalism career. I loved my time working full time in journalism, and I loved my time as a reporter. I loved my time as an anchor woman. I loved my time telling stories that I think other people weren't really interested in. I loved the environment. I loved the newsroom. I loved the people in it. You know, I got put on a leave of absence, AKA fired when I became first lady of California, because they felt that it wasn't copacetic to conflict of interest, perhaps. Yeah. That just shows you how much journalism has changed, but.
- [15:43]
Dan Buettner
And how before we move on.
- [15:45]
Maria Shriver
And I loved it, and I still love it. I still work at NBC, but it's not the same today as it was then.
- [15:52]
Dan Buettner
The Dan Buettner podcast. You get extra points for vulnerability and brutal honesty, if you can. What is the difference between turning on the NBC Nightly News Today, which typically opens with the political story, then you get the weather story, and then you get the celebrity thing, and then you get the puppy story at the end? And when you were anchors in the.
- [16:13]
Maria Shriver
Early days, well, first of all, there's a lot fewer people watching it.
- [16:17]
Dan Buettner
Yeah.
- [16:18]
Maria Shriver
So when I was coming up in journalism, you know, there was ABC, NBC, and CBS. Everybody, 25 million people watched it. And I think there was a reverence or a trust in the anchor man. Cause there were no women when I was coming up. So there was a seriousness to the news, a respect for the news, a trust in the anchorman and in the product that was being delivered. And it was delivered with a sense of seriousness. It was, in my mind, a service. And they were ratings looking for the truth. They were looking. There were a lot of rules about what you could and couldn't do. Integrity was really important. Honesty was important. And it was a great era to work in journalism. And the people in it were motivated by the truth. They were motivated to tell stories that they thought would change people's lives. And that people would benefit from, be it in politics or in other areas of human endeavor.
- [17:27]
Dan Buettner
As I say, what happened, you've been on the inside. When you turn flick on the TV and you watch the left or you watch the right, and sometimes the news is unrecognizable. So what to put, I think when you started in the early era, the news was a lot more down the middle. People could argue a little bit left or a little bit right. But how did that. How did we careen or how did we polarize?
- [17:56]
Maria Shriver
Well, I think, you know, that's a whole podcast, I suppose, on Tuesday.
- [17:59]
Dan Buettner
All right, we'll have you back.
- [18:01]
Maria Shriver
But I think, you know, the news business became a business and there became a lot more outlets. And so people had to find their identities. And I think certainly, you know, Fox came along and had a specific identity, and then that brought up the idea of having a counter identity to that. And then there were more and more channels and, you know, people trying to find white space in that. And money became a big part of it and, you know, the cost of it and what's generating money and what's not and who owns it and who doesn't and advertisers. So it's a complex, convoluted journey to get to where we are today. But I do believe that there is still really important journalism being done today. I think it's a critical component to our society to have a free press, a press that people trust, that people believe in, that people can turn to, and that a press that can hold political leaders accountable. So I think the role of the press, the need for the press in this country remains crucial to the country.
- [19:14]
Dan Buettner
I've learned in my travels to the world's blue zones that people who live the longest don't chase goals. They live with purpose. They wake up each morning with a sense of direction. And that changes everything. For me, the new year is about simplifying, asking about what really matters and letting go of what doesn't. I like to spend those first cold weeks at my lake home in Wisconsin. I build a fire, go for long walks in the frozen lake, and just think about what I want to give my time and energy to in the next year. But before I head back out into the world, I wonder how the joy I found in my home could be shared with others while I'm off exploring or filming somewhere new. I like giving someone else the opportunity to experience the same quiet mornings, the same sense of peace, and the same things that always reset me. Hosting my home on airbnb. Allows me to share that peace and tranquility I love with others, while also earning a little extra income to help fund the next trip. Hosting fits right into my rhythm. It's a simple way to keep the good energy flowing while I'm away. So if you've got a second home or space that's available when you travel, consider hosting it on Airbnb. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much@airbnb.com host you know, I've spent my life exploring the world. Not chasing adrenaline, but meaning. From the blue zones of Costa Rica to the highlands of Sardinia, I've learned that adventure isn't about going further, it's about going deeper. That's why the Defender caught my attention. It's not just built for the toughest roads. It's designed for people with a purpose. A vehicle capable of great things, like the people who drive it. When I'm planning a new expedition or just heading up to my lake place, I want something that feels as durable and capable as the journeys themselves. The Defender, whether the 2 door 90, the 110 or the 8 seat 130, gives you the confidence to explore wherever your path leads. Because adventure isn't just about conquering the landscape, it's about connecting with it. Explore the defender@land roverusa.com who is the Maria Shriver we saw on network TV as the anchor Gorgeous from the Kennedy family? Famous. It seemed like you couldn't ask for a better life, but what was really going on behind your eyes? Who were you really?
- [22:09]
Maria Shriver
I was her. I mean, I think.
- [22:10]
Dan Buettner
Were you happy?
- [22:11]
Maria Shriver
Yeah, I was. I loved my job. I loved, as I said, the profession that I was in. I, you know, started, you know, in my 20s. I worked my way up. I really liked doing that. I liked the fast pace of it. I liked the competition in it. I felt I excelled at that. I understood it. I liked telling stories. I liked inspiring people. I liked imagining people sitting at home and being like, wow, I just saw that on tv and now I can feel differently about this or now I can go get involved in that. So I liked what television could do. I loved the possibility of television. I love the power of journalism to really, what I say is, inspire hearts and minds. I really believed 100% in that. And so I liked being able to do that as a reporter and as an anchor woman. And I felt like, you know, that was something I worked really, really hard at. And as I said, I worked my way up and I was really happy. And then I had children and became more challenging to report or run around and have a child. When I was pregnant on the air, I had never seen a pregnant woman, you know, but it was really, I think if you think about it, there was no, there weren't pregnant women on the air. And they were like, well, we'll shoot you from, you know, the neck up and then we'll go. We'll keep, you know, raising the camera higher and higher. When I had my first child, I was anchoring Sunday Today and anchoring the nightly news on Saturdays and reporting for, you know, nightly and stuff during the week. And that became challenging. Cause I lived in Los Angeles and all of this was in New York and Washington. So I tried that for probably eight months with my daughter. And then I realized that was no longer manageable. And I went to the president of the news division. I said, listen, you know, like, I'm struggling to get to New York to do the weekend news, then going down to Washington to do the Sunday day, then going home to LA and reporting during the week. Can you move one of these shows for me to LA so I can at least be at home? And he's like, absolutely not. You know, LA is not a serious news town.
- [24:26]
Dan Buettner
That was an ambitious ask.
- [24:28]
Maria Shriver
Well, I didn't see it as such. You know, I saw it as I had been, you know, working there for a long time. I had won awards, I was good. And I didn't think it mattered where the desk was. I thought it mattered what the stories were, who the anchor person was, the editorial. And I didn't think there was a big bureau in Los Angeles. So it wasn't really a big ask. It was changing the location of the desk. And really, if the editorial is what's important and who the managing editor of the broadcast is, does it really matter where they're sitting? Well, it turned out it did, but in my mind it didn't. And I've always been someone who felt you should ask. Like, when I became the anchor of the CBS Morning News, I found out what my colleague who was the co anchor, was making. So I went in and asked for the same thing. And they explained to me that you didn't, as a woman, get the same thing as the guy. And I said, well, why's that? And they're like, well, that's just not how it's done. I said, well, maybe it can be done like that moving forward because you need me and Monday's coming and I'm gonna do it for the same as him. And I actually got for the first time, the same as him. So I think unless you ask, you never know. So I did ask and I got a no.
- [25:46]
Dan Buettner
But, yeah, what's the downside?
- [25:48]
Maria Shriver
Yeah, the downside is I lost both of the jobs. But.
- [25:52]
Dan Buettner
Well, I mean, it's a no. And then you can say, well, okay, yes.
- [25:55]
Maria Shriver
But the good news is, as the president of news division said to me, look, it, I won't move that, but I will work with you to develop something that's unique to you. And so he said, you can work at Dateline, we'll develop a series of specials for you, but I can't move these shows. And that was Michael Gardner, who was the president of the News division at the time. And so he said, look, you're really good at what you do, and I wanna keep you here, so let's figure that out. So that was also really helpful. And so I was happy about that. But my career definitely had been going like this, so it kind of plateaued a little bit. Well, it plateaued. It just became different. And then I had, you know, three more kids and, you know, in rapid succession. So it was, you know, challenging to work in network news on the west coast, have smart for small young children. But it was also great.
- [26:51]
Dan Buettner
In many ways, it sounds great. I mean, here you have this purpose, service driven life. You set this goal to be a journalist and you reach the very pinnacle. You were successful for many years, and then comes a phase in your life where you want to have a family and you get to have four children. But now I want to jump ahead to the number one New York Times bestselling book, I Am Maria, which is part memoir and part poetry. And, you know, who writes a number one New York Times best selling poetry book these days? And it's fabulous, actually.
- [27:26]
Maria Shriver
Matthew McConaughey and I both wrote number one bestseller Poet.
- [27:30]
Dan Buettner
But you were first.
- [27:31]
Maria Shriver
I was first, yes, that was true. But I think what, you know, they tell you, and I asked him too, you know, don't write a poetry book. Poetry books don't sell. People don't like poetry, et cetera, et cetera. And I think the fact that they both went to number one, Good sense tells us once again that we don't really know what people want, what people crave, what people are interested in. The public continues to tell us what they want and what they're interested in. And it told me that people are more creative, more imaginative, more curious than oftentimes publishers give them credit for. And I'm a publisher myself. I have my own Imprint. And I was banking on people wanting something that was not a traditional memoir.
- [28:22]
Dan Buettner
Well, it shocked me. Not that you don't have the talent and also the life experience, but the fact that Americans would make a poetry book a number one New York Times bestseller. We've had Matthew McConaughey on the show, too, but he was second. You came first. But I want to read something. The kind of very first part that really juxtaposes what we just heard about this purpose, service, driven life and you reaching the pinnacle and having four wonderful children on a hilltop in Petaluma, California. I buried the woman who wrote much of what's in these pages, the woman who was tougher than tough. I buried the part of me that was filled with self loathing, self criticism, self hatred, and self judgment. I buried the combative, angry, controlling version of myself that completely shocked me because I've known you almost 10 years. I've never seen that. And nothing about what you just told us about your ascension suggests that all this was happening in the background.
- [29:28]
Maria Shriver
Well, I think anybody who's as driven as I was is probably dealing with some demons. I think, you know, they're trying to, as I also say in that book, I grew up in a family that prized high achievement. And that's where love came. And if you weren't doing that, you know, you weren't visible.
- [29:52]
Dan Buettner
Did you not get love if you weren't attention?
- [29:53]
Maria Shriver
Well, I think you didn't get attention. And love is attention.
- [29:56]
Dan Buettner
Right.
- [29:57]
Maria Shriver
And it's hard to find your way in a very high achieving family unless you want to join in with that. And I think for me, as I said, you know, I. Journalism, for me was fun, as I said, it was competitive. It was hard charging, hard driving. And so that worked for me because I was that way. And it was a tough business, certainly for women. There were no women when I, you know, started, or very few. There were no anchor women. So you had to really, you know, hustle.
- [30:29]
Dan Buettner
Yeah. And you weren't a woman who wore her emotions on her sleeve either, were you?
- [30:33]
Maria Shriver
No, no.
- [30:34]
Dan Buettner
And. And here you're kind of admitting to the world.
- [30:37]
Maria Shriver
Yeah.
- [30:37]
Dan Buettner
Of self loathing.
- [30:39]
Maria Shriver
Yeah, definitely. I, you know, I think I certainly up until my late 40s, when I was. I became first lady of California at the end of my 40s, and I lost my job in journalism, and I moved into a different era in my life. And to be a really, I would say, effective first lady, you needed a lot of the same qualities that one might need to succeed in journalism or network journalism. But I was also raising kids, taking care of aging parents. And so I started to, you know, question some of the things. As I said, I lost my job overnight. So I was like, whoa, you know, that was fast.
- [31:26]
Dan Buettner
You chose to lose it or.
- [31:27]
Maria Shriver
No, I didn't choose to lose it. They told me, oh, because you were gonna be.
- [31:31]
Dan Buettner
You were gonna become a first lady.
- [31:33]
Maria Shriver
Because that was the first lady. And they felt that that was not compatible with being a journalist working for NBC. What?
- [31:44]
Dan Buettner
I get that. I don't get that. I take that back.
- [31:48]
Maria Shriver
Those fools. Well, you know, I had worked at K conventions, and there was always a like, can you be nonpartisan? If we assign you to the Republican convention, are you going to be able to be okay covering it? And I was like, yeah, I'm a journalist. I can handle the Republican convention and the Democratic convention. I'm a professional. Anyway, the NBC did not feel that it was in their best interest to have a reporter or an anchor woman who happened to be the first lady of California and actually turned out to be good. That I didn't have to balance both of those things that I could throw myself into being first lady. And that period was also super interesting. I was super grateful for the experience, but I was balancing four young kids. I was balancing two aging parents, an evolving marriage, and a lot of questions. And then when my marriage ended and both of my parents died and my uncle died, kind of my whole world kind of turned upside down. And so I did start to look at myself, and I discovered a lot of the things that you read in the beginning that came up.
- [33:06]
Dan Buettner
Would you read just one short passage? Okay.
- [33:09]
Maria Shriver
Of course.
- [33:11]
Dan Buettner
She always does this to me. Well, you wrote it, for crying out loud.
- [33:16]
Maria Shriver
I don't have my glasses, Dan.
- [33:18]
Dan Buettner
Oh, I'm sorry. You don't?
- [33:19]
Maria Shriver
Oh, my God. Okay. It's called fear. So I'm beginning here. Turns out that the screaming, the crying was all just for me, to get me to step out and save us. I never stopped trying. I'm sorry. It's true. I'm the hero of this story. I brought us all home. I was there with my mother, my father as well. I drove away from the hell. I found a safe place and made it my own. I got us out safe. It only took a lifetime of longing and of loss. I'm no longer in danger, no longer in fear. I'm safe. And I did it. I can exhale the fear. So this is a whole poem about fear. And I think I became aware of fear in my own life when my.
- [34:02]
Dan Buettner
Life blew Up, I could see where it would be very therapeutic to write that. But I wonder if you were conscious that hundreds of thousands of people would now be reading that a very private part of your life.
- [34:17]
Maria Shriver
When I was a young woman, I never heard people, and certainly well known people talk like that. And I never heard successful people talk about their insecurities or their fears. So I grew up thinking no one had any. And therefore, when you face your own, you think, well, something must be wrong with you, or what's up with you that you're afraid, or what's up with you that you can't manage X, Y and Z. And so I think it was important to me at the end of the day to share this so that people know if they're experiencing it, they're not alone. And I think so many of us feel alone in our journeys. And nobody had talked to me about midlife, nobody talked to me about a midlife reckoning, Nobody talked to me about anything that happened to me in midlife or that seems to happen to a lot of people. And basically, I think also for women, you know, when you basically become, or in the past have become somewhat invisible at 50, or some women feel invisible at 40, some women feel invisible their whole lives. And I think that, you know, that can be scary, that can be confusing. You can turn in on yourself. And so I wanted to share this because millions of people get divorced, Millions of people have to find a new identity, millions of people have to grapple with fear and insecurity. They have to rebuild their lives at midlife. And that's scary. And I wanted people to know it can be done and they can do it too. And it takes one foot in front of the other and that if they feel these feelings, they can know that I did too. And that salvation, resurrection is possible if you have people to help you, if you've invested in your relationships, if you have a relationship with the divine, if you believe the divine lives within you, and if you have a purpose larger than yourself, you will rise.
- [36:19]
Dan Buettner
And it was therapeutic for you to tell others. Rather, I think at first you kind of kept it in, didn't you?
- [36:26]
Maria Shriver
Well, yeah, it was therapeutic because I knew people were looking. My story was public, so I knew people already had an opinion about it. They didn't know anything about it. And so I wanted to take my narrative back and I wanted it to be a story of rising and owning my narrative. And I wanted it to be that my best days were in front of me and that me, I had been an anchor woman or I had been a first lady, but that I could be my own creation in my 50s and 60s and 70s. And that wasn't something that many people are like, shocked about. And I don't want people to think like, oh my God, my life is over at 50. My life is over at 60. My life is over at 70. Cause we're living thanks to work like you do and so many others. We're being told we can live longer, but how do we live? Do we live with purpose? Do we live with joy? Do we feel alive? Do we feel seen? Or do we feel uninvited, invisible in the corner? Ageism is real. How do we deal with that? So there's a lot of things to me that are exciting about aging. But I wanted this book to be a story of finding the I am in myself and letting others know, as I said. Cause so many people had come up to me throughout my. Have continued to come up to me and get undone by the end of a marriage, get undone by the loss of a job, get undone by some betrayal, get undone by the death of a parent. And these things happen. And I wanted my children to know that I was, you know, strong and capable and I would rise and that when things happen to them, they could too.
- [38:20]
Dan Buettner
What would you say to others who go through similar struggles that you have? Cause you're not alone in these.
- [38:26]
Maria Shriver
That's what.
- [38:27]
Dan Buettner
How do people find their own?
- [38:30]
Maria Shriver
Well, I think it takes work. It takes first an understanding that they may not know it and a desire to. For me, it was therapy. It was writing, it was going back in my story to understand what had motivated me. Why was I so driven? What was I looking for? What was the story I had in my head? Was it right? Was it wrong? I tried everything conceivable that's out there to break through my own armor, to get to my own essence, to be able to stand in that and build myself back up. Different than that girl, but as happy as alive, but different.
- [39:15]
Dan Buettner
You had a very public divorce, but you've handled it with such grace and in a way, generosity. And I looked it up this morning. About 350,000 women will get divorced this year. And having kind of a front row seat at seeing your post divorce life, from what I can see, it's really good. What advice would you have for others who just are going through it now?
- [39:43]
Maria Shriver
Well, it would be the same advice I would have for a woman or a man. I would speak to the person differently, depending. And it's so individual. Right. First I Would sit with that person, listen to their grief. Cause I don't care if you're the person initiating the divorce or the person being divorced, it's painful. You've been divorced. I have, yeah. And it's painful, right?
- [40:09]
Dan Buettner
No way around it.
- [40:10]
Maria Shriver
Yeah. And I think that we wanna rush through it or whatever. So. Yeah.
- [40:15]
Dan Buettner
Get onto the next thing.
- [40:16]
Maria Shriver
Yeah. And that's one thing I didn't wanna get on to the next thing. I didn't. Like, there was no next thing for me. And I just wanted to understand my own grief and the pain that I felt. So I would. If somebody came up to me, and a lot of people do come up to me and tell me their story, I would sit with their story and honor their story, what they're feeling, and I would honor the grief of what they're going through. And I would probably hear their fear. I'd ask them if they considered therapy. I'd ask them if they had kids. And, you know, how that was all going. And for me, you know, I would share kind of what worked for me. And I would say to them that it's an ongoing day by day thing.
- [41:13]
Dan Buettner
Something that I've always admired about you is on Sunday nights, you have a ritual, don't you?
- [41:20]
Maria Shriver
Yeah.
- [41:20]
Dan Buettner
Can you say what it is?
- [41:21]
Maria Shriver
You've come, I've come with you, and you've cooked, and I love that.
- [41:25]
Dan Buettner
But mostly I revel in the wonderfulness of it.
- [41:28]
Maria Shriver
Thank you. I have a Sunday night dinner and I set up the table and I add onto the table as it comes. But that was one of the things when I got divorced, I was like, I closed my eyes and I.
- [41:43]
Dan Buettner
I.
- [41:43]
Maria Shriver
Have a vision for myself in the open field at my table, and that my table is filled with my children and people who love my children and people who love me. And I want to just keep growing that table so that nothing can contain that table. It just keeps growing and growing and growing. And from the very beginning, I said, I just want to keep working towards that. And I want that table to be full of joy and love and meaning. I want it to be spirited. I want it to have good food, and I want people to connect and make friends at the table and just keep growing it. And it's a metaphor for the country I want to live in. It's a metaphor for the way I want to live my life. And I took my seat at the top of the table where I had usually sat on the side of the table, and I just started building my table out. And so as I say, to you, if you're ever in town, come to the table. And people call me and say, can I come to Sunday dinner? And can I bring a friend? I'm like, more the merrier. I love it.
- [42:51]
Dan Buettner
I sense that was part of your coming back, one of the tools in your toolbox for recovering from that terrible time.
- [43:01]
Maria Shriver
Every Sunday, I'm recovering. Every Sunday, I'm rising. Every Sunday is salvation. I start my Sunday at church. Well, I start my Sunday with my own Sunday paper, actually, which is the newsletter that I put out every week. And I write a column every week. And I've been writing a column for more than a decade every week. As a discipline. It's a spiritual practice. And I created that. And now it's run by also a team of journalists. And it's award winning. And it's grown organically, and it reaches several million people every Sunday. And my hope is that it changes the way your Sunday is, the way your week goes. It changes the way you think about the world and about other people. And it helps you center yourself and live your deeply meaningful life. And it helps you move humanity forward by the writing and the people who are in that community. So I begin my Sunday, as I do every day, in prayer, in meditation. And then on Sundays, I open the Sunday paper and I respond to the community that's in there. So that's my community.
- [44:13]
Dan Buettner
How do people subscribe to Sunday?
- [44:15]
Maria Shriver
They can go to a Maria Shriver Sunday paper and go there and become a part of that community of architects of changes.
- [44:21]
Dan Buettner
I recommend.
- [44:22]
Maria Shriver
Thank you.
- [44:23]
Dan Buettner
Yeah, I'm one of them. You'll join me.
- [44:25]
Maria Shriver
And people write op EDS for it. They write stories about it. We do books on there. We have now a new, Healthy vertical. Talking about how people can radically reframe their own health and wellness and longevity. You know, journey. We have literature and books and spirituality and prayers. And it's about trying. It's. For me, it's about a different world. It's about creating a different world. The one that I wanna create, the one that I wanna live in. Where people don't yell at each other, where they're civil with one another, where they respect one another, where they're kind to one another. Where people of different political backgrounds communicate without ostracizing people. Cause that's the world I grew up in. My world was much more competitive. So I'm trying to make this kinder and more compassionate. So that's how I do my Sunday. And I always end my Sunday. And then I go to church, and then I I've been there with you. You've been to church with me. Yes, that's true. We've been to church in LA and Palm Beach. Palm beach, yeah. And then I end it with Sunday dinner. And it's something I look forward to and it helps me kind of look at my week differently and I feel grounded when I'm in community.
- [45:49]
Dan Buettner
These are so consummately blue zones. But you know, we have nine pillars in blue zones and one of them is belonging to a faith based community.
- [45:56]
Maria Shriver
Yes.
- [45:57]
Dan Buettner
One of them is building your tribe, curating a group of people who you can trust, who you can have meaningful conversation with and who you can call on a bad day. And then family first, another major. And when I look at your Sunday, it is just like, oh my God, it's a blue zone in Los Angeles. Yeah, I love that.
- [46:19]
Maria Shriver
A blue zone in la.
- [46:21]
Dan Buettner
It really is. But I've seen you over the past years really put your focus on your family. And I'm not speaking out of school and saying I would say that's your number one priority for sure.
- [46:35]
Maria Shriver
That's always been my number one priority.
- [46:37]
Dan Buettner
Above the fame or the journalistic awards.
- [46:41]
Maria Shriver
Oh, not even close.
- [46:45]
Dan Buettner
You know, the best trip I took in recent memory was a Divine trip. I gathered up 10 of my best friends and we took a trip to the Blue Zone with Dine. They took of of everything. And as a cyclist who likes to have a bike that's working, who likes to eat good meals, and who likes to know what I'm seeing as I go, I could not have asked for a better experience than with d'. Vine. And not only that, it turns out that cycling is one of the best activities for longevity. It's one of the top three.
- [47:16]
Maria Shriver
Why?
- [47:16]
Dan Buettner
It's easy on the joints. You get regular, low intensity physical activity. It's not boring. It requires some balance, something you can do for the long run, you know? Duvine believes cycling is for everyone. So they design trips for all levels of experience. And they'll take you anywhere from easygoing bike paths and how into epic climbs in France. Plus, they offer E bikes to make the trip accessible to everybody. And they. And the support van is always with you for not only emergency repairs or water or snacks or to carry your extra gear. So whether you're a seasoned cyclist or a total beginner, if you're ready to give it a try, our listeners get $150 off per person. When you book your first Divine tour, head to divine.com livebetterlonger to book now. I got Lucky enough to get an invitation to the hottest party in town, Maria's birthday party. Can we say the number?
- [48:16]
Maria Shriver
Oh, I don't. You know, actually, it's so funny you asked me. So I just turned 70 and I believe in saying that number because ageism is real. Ageism is alive and well. And nobody told me that my 60s were gonna be great. When I went to turn 60, everybody's like, Mm, you're gonna turn 60? I was like, oh, is that bad? You know, and like, I think the alternative is worse. But my 60s were the most extraordinary decade. It's, I think, probably maybe my best decade or wow. And it was so extraordinary. And I have the same hopes for this decade. And I want people not to fear aging. And I think, you know, if we keep hiding our age or being ashamed of our age, ageism wins, invisibility wins, fear wins. And if we say, yeah, I'm 70 and I have all of these dreams and I still have purpose and I wanna do a lot of things, and as long as I have my health, I'm capable of doing that. But I have goals I wanna pursue, I have dreams I wanna fulfill. And to me, it doesn't matter the age. And in a way, I had been working on women's health and Alzheimer's and all of these things for 20 some years. And in my 60s, they all kind of started working. People started understanding what I was talking about. Things that I had been pushing came to fruition. I started a Women's Alzheimer's Prevention center, the first of its kind. Opened a women's Comprehensive Health center at the Cleveland Clinic. Started my mosh bar company with my son to fund the research that goes on at the women's Alzheimer's movement. The Sunday paper started winning awards and getting bigger. I opened a publishing imprint in my 60s. So I tell that not to brag on myself, but I tell it because people think their life is over and it can be just beginning. Or these dreams you may have had in your 40s and 50s, your kids grow up, maybe your parents. My parents had passed away and I had more time than I'd had in the past. And I was like, let's go.
- [50:31]
Dan Buettner
Yeah. And not only that, I mean, it's fair to say you were kind of cold cocked by life with that whole divorce. And a lot of people, they wouldn't pull off.
- [50:38]
Maria Shriver
But everybody gets, you know, as I say to my kids, everybody's got something.
- [50:42]
Dan Buettner
You got hit a little harder than most.
- [50:44]
Maria Shriver
No, I think people get hit. Look it, I talk to people all the time. Who lose a kid.
- [50:48]
Dan Buettner
Okay, cliche.
- [50:49]
Maria Shriver
The stuff that people go through. That's why journalism was so great for me, because I would get to interview people who took the most extraordinary pain and took it and turned it into purpose. Who lost a child and started a foundation in that child's honor. Who got diagnosed with a debilitating disease and started a foundation to fund research. Who lost everything they had and decided to rebuild and help others do so. Everybody is dealing with something. Everybody has a really tough thing to manage at some point in their life. And how we manage that is what I say to my children all the time. The idea that you're gonna make it through without something challenging happening is naive. So how do we handle. What are the tools we have to manage when the. You know what hits the fan? And so for me, I'm so inspired by the stories of people who rise up and live again and find a way forward. That to me is like, I'm just like, I will sit next to you for hours and hear that story. It gives me goosebumps. And I think that's what helps us all. That's why one writes a book. Why do you write your book? To share what you know. Right.
- [52:22]
Dan Buettner
It's kind of an extension of kid banging a tin cup on his high chair. You know, I discovered this.
- [52:29]
Maria Shriver
Yeah. But people who share their pain and their ordeals want share it because they know other people are going through something similar, and they want them not to lose hope. That's the only reason to share your story.
- [52:46]
Dan Buettner
I also think that you took the focus off of yourself and you put it on people struggling with Alzheimer's and your children and your Sunday paper and the spiritual community you create around that. We have another pillar in Blue zones called ikigai, or sense of purpose. And taking the time and the effort to understand what that is for you, what are my values, what am I good at? What do I like to do, and where can I share that? And it seems to me you were very clear on that. And all of a sudden, instead of. Because we can all find 99 problems with our life. 99 things that suck. I just got a wrinkle. Oh, my foot hurts. Oh, God, I wish I had as much money as my neighbor, et cetera. That can go on and on and on. But when you take the focus off of my 99 problems and you put it on, oh, these are people suffering from dementia. That's much worse than. Than. Than me. Then all of a sudden, those 99 problems shrink.
- [53:43]
Maria Shriver
Yeah. I mean, I've always been blessed to kind of be interested in other people and what's going on in the world. So when my dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, I sat back and I'm like, naha, here's somebody who's so smart who, you know, created the Peace Corps with my uncle, who developed Head Start War on Poverty Job Corps. You know, the goes on that ran the War on Poverty. He's ambassador to France, ran for vice president, knows about more things than any human being I've ever met. And he got Alzheimer's. And I was like, what is this thing called Alzheimer's? I'm going to find out everything I can about this thing that they call Alzheimer's. And that led me on a path of no return. I was like a bulldog. I was relentless. I'm like, wait a minute, when does that happen? We don't know. Why don't we know? We don't have the research. Where do we get the research? We have to fund it. Okay, I'll testify. Hey, I think more women. No, no, no, you're not right. I think I am. I'm going to change that, Rewrite the narrative. Oh, it turns out that women are disproportionately impacted. Oh, we never knew that. Okay, now we have that. Why are women disproportionately impacted? We don't know. Why don't we know? Hey, we've never done any research on women's brains. Oh, I'll start an organization. But now I'm really teed off because I discover that not only have we not done research into women's brains, we don't know anything about women's health journeys at all because we haven't done any research about women. So. Oh, I'll get that. So that, you know. And it just. The more questions you ask, the more your purpose can grow. And then I thought, well, if I can help prevent Alzheimer's, I can start a prevention center. If I can help women on the ground and in research, I'll start a women's comprehensive health center with the Cleveland Clinic so I can offer care to women that are on the ground of all ages. Women at midlife and beyond. Cause women at the end of their lives are very frail because nobody's helped them with any research to get there. Oh, then I'll go to the federal government and I'll try to get them to fund more money into women's health research. So then my purpose just grows again.
- [56:07]
Dan Buettner
You have no time to worry about your own problems.
- [56:09]
Maria Shriver
Yeah, I got my Feet hurt, but I don't have time. Right. But I think I'm so curious about all of that. I'm interested in why we haven't funded research into Women's health span. Why is that? Why do we still have ageism? Why in this country are we so afraid of the old? Why are we so afraid of becoming old? And yet we all want longevity, but that means old. We don't want to look old, we don't want to be old, but we want to live longer. How does that square up? How do women age differently? Why don't we talk more about that? How do we care for people who are. Who have Alzheimer's and dementia? Are nursing homes the right option? Do people need help caring for people at home? Who's gonna pay for that? How does that work? Why don't we talk about that? Why does nobody run on that as a political platform? Why don't people who run for office talk about women's health and research? So I have a lot of issues that I'm interested in that help me stay alive, stay curious, stay. Yeah.
- [57:16]
Dan Buettner
You got another 40 years of work in front of you here.
- [57:19]
Maria Shriver
Yeah, I just. I love work. I love seeing something that people don't see or aren't interested in and trying to develop the story around it to help people become interested in it.
- [57:35]
Dan Buettner
Story's always the Trojan horse to get an idea. You know, I write about health, but I learned a long time the best way to people's brain is through their heart. And if you tell a good story where they feel you tell the story of a centenarian who's loved their family, who has a spiritual life, who has a sense of purpose, and at 108 is still standing on her head. Oh, I want that.
- [58:02]
Maria Shriver
Yeah. What did they do to get to that place?
- [58:06]
Dan Buettner
Yes.
- [58:07]
Maria Shriver
What did they do?
- [58:08]
Dan Buettner
People forget statistics in a hurry and numbers and facts. They metabolize it in a story.
- [58:13]
Maria Shriver
Yeah.
- [58:14]
Dan Buettner
I want to just go back to Saturday night, 10 o'. Clock. Everybody's been gyrating on the dance floor, boogieing it at disco and fabulous people. 100 of the most fabulous people in the world. And at a certain point, you get up on stage with your four children, beautiful, successful children. And they said two things about you that really stand out. The first one is you're the wisest person they know. And very few children are talking about how wise their parents are, especially in their teens. But the second thing was the best mother they could imagine. And I'm just wondering what you think you've done. Right. To produce those four fantastic children.
- [59:01]
Maria Shriver
I think there's no substitute for love and spending time with your kids. Right. I think.
- [59:06]
Dan Buettner
Let's underscore that. No substitute for love and spending time with your kids.
- [59:12]
Maria Shriver
Yeah.
- [59:12]
Dan Buettner
So it's not spending money. It's not dance classes, necessarily. It's not.
- [59:16]
Maria Shriver
Well, I think all that's great. And I think everybody parents differently. I think, you know, they. My kids growing up, they would have said I was strict, but I didn't think so. Cause that's how I was raised. And I know I wasn't as strict as my parents, but I think their dad and I did a good job, or we tried to do a good job approaching them as a team. I just wanted them to feel loved, no matter what. I wanted them to know they were loved for who they were, not for what they did or what they would do in the world. That I just thought they were extraordinary. I love my kids, but I also enjoy them. I like them. If I could have dinner with any one of them or the four of them, I would drop everything. They are the sun, the moon, the stars in my life. And I travel with them. I go out to dinner. And I'm also like. I now know they're older, so I have to provide food to get them to come home. I try to, and they come. I lure them to do things with me. And so I. And I talk to them about how much I love them. My parents didn't do that. And I tell them to the point where I think they're like, you know, like, I know. Okay, got it. But I really want them to know how much I love them and how extraordinary I think they are. And they're good. They're kind of. They're fun, they're funny, they're vulnerable. Both of my boys are good men. They're vulnerable and strong. Both of my girls are tender and strong. And I want them to love and respect their dad. And I want them to love and respect me. But I want them to have fun with me, too. Yeah, I wanna have fun with them. And I wanna be around long enough that I get to, you know, see their kids. And, you know, my daughter has kids, so I get to see them. And that's a big part of my life. And my granddaughter, the night before last said, I'm gonna come over and have dinner by myself with you. And I was like, damn, Chad.
- [61:44]
Dan Buettner
What greater success right there? Bam. Forget the NBC Nightly News. I won.
- [61:49]
Maria Shriver
That's it. Everything canceled. You know, my granddaughter, the other night, there were this is an interesting thing. She's five and she was at dinner at the table. My other daughter was there and her friends who had come in to visit, and she. The other two adults were talking about some of the challenges they had. And she said to them, is your bucket full or empty? And they were like, what? And she took out the crayon. Cause she and I had been painting. And she said, this is a full bucket, and when your bucket is full, you're happy. Then she this is an empty bucket. And when your bucket is empty, you're sad. And this is a medium bucket. And then you're a little happy and a little sad.
- [62:40]
Dan Buettner
Wow.
- [62:41]
Maria Shriver
And so I was like, wow, Lila. She goes, do you know what makes your bucket full? She goes, love and being with you, Mama G. Oh, my God. And then everybody at the table was like, I don't know what fills my bucket? Oh my God, what do I do? But it ensued two days of conversation about what fills one's bucket in life. And this couple was like, you know, I'm not really sure now what does fill my bucket and how do I keep my bucket full and what can I do? And the young man was like, tomorrow I'm gonna go for a hike. And when I saw him last night, he goes, it filled my bucket. And I wanna keep filling my bucket with love, with nature. I wanna realize I wanna be in a job where I can learn from somebody that'll fill my bucket. And I think those kind of table conversations that come from family, that come from 5 year olds. My parents included us at the table at 5 and like, what do you have to say for yourself? And she just joined right in because she's been sitting at Sunday dinner since.
- [63:52]
Dan Buettner
She'S three and obviously absorbed it.
- [63:55]
Maria Shriver
Something I said later, I said to her, where'd you get that? She goes to school. But I thought to her, and I've been thinking ever since, I was like, what fills my bucket now? What do I want in this decade of my life? What do I want?
- [64:09]
Dan Buettner
Can you tell us?
- [64:09]
Maria Shriver
Yes. I want more love in my life. I want my table to grow. I want love for my children. I want to live in this world that I write about in the Sunday paper. I want to help build that world. I understand that we can't build a caring, compassionate world unless we start doing that to ourselves. I want a more compassionate world. And I want to be a loving presence in the life of my children and others. And I want to be that in my own life because I've driven myself for multiple decades. And I want to be gentler and tender. More tender with myself. And I want to have an extraordinary decade.
- [64:58]
Dan Buettner
Well, I have no doubt that.
- [65:00]
Maria Shriver
And I want to go on another trip with you, Dan Gardner. Where are we going to go? Now?
- [65:03]
Dan Buettner
I guarantee where are we going to go?
- [65:06]
Maria Shriver
I tell you what I don't wanna do is ride a long bike ride with you. I don't wanna play pickleball at 1am with you. I wanna learn how to cook a little bit. You said you'd help me with that. I have had your minestrone since you left. And I just want to keep my house open and my heart open for whoever walks in the door.
- [65:26]
Dan Buettner
Oh, Maria, I cannot imagine a better conversation. I think you filled all of our buckets a little bit. So thank you so much. You're an inspiration. And us treasure a world treasure.
- [65:39]
Maria Shriver
We love you. Love you too.