← The Dan Buettner Podcast
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- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Fiscally responsible financial geniuses, Monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. This podcast is brought to you by Wise, the app for international people using money around the globe. With Wise, you can send, spend and receive up to 40 currencies with only a few simple taps. Whether you're buying souvenirs with pesos and Puerto Vallarta or sending Euros to a loved one in Paris, you know you're getting a fair exchange rate with no extra markups. That's what makes WISE the fast, affordable way to use your money around the globe. WISE offers 24.7live support and runs over 7 million daily checks to catch and prevent fraud. So you know your money is where it's supposed to be. Be Smart. Join the 15 million customers who choose WISE. Download the WISE app today or visit WISE.com Learn more by visiting WISE.com US/Compare Ts and Cs Apply.
- [01:36]
B
Lemonade. Hello everyone and welcome back to the Dan Buettner podcast. Or perhaps welcome for the very first time. You know I just started this last season and it debuted number one in health and fitness. We got to as high as the top 25 of all podcasts in the world. So as we turn the calendar page into this new year, I want to invite you to join me for a focus and inspiring refresh. We're beginning to bring back some of the most impactful and actionable episodes we've ever produced. I put extra emphasis on actionable because if you're gonna spend time listening to me, I want you to take something back that's tangible, you can put to work in your life and evidence shows us it will add good years to that life. We wanna give you every tool you need to make this the best year yet. We're adding a bonus episode every Tuesday this January. You can expect our brand new interviews and insights on Thursdays. But now you'll get a powerful dose of Blue Zone wisdom on Tuesdays too. These re release Tuesday episodes distill proven strategies gleaned from the longest lived people in the Blue zones and from world experts throughout the world. All designed to help you build A better life, not just through theory, but through small, manageable steps. So listen every Tuesday and Thursday, take notes, and most importantly, let's stop wishing and start doing. In 2026.
- [03:10]
A
Who you choose to partner with is the most important decision you will ever make. So better choose wisely.
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B
A lot of people are in suboptimal relationships. How do you know when to pull the rip cord?
- [03:23]
A
Million Doll? In general, women have a higher level of emotional intelligence. We're more connected to our emotional inner world. What every woman craves is.
- [03:35]
B
The topic of longevity is hot right now. We tend to focus on supplements, on pills, on stem cells, diets, and exercise. But did you know? Probably the biggest determinant of how long you're gonna live or how much you're gonna cut your life short is how good your relationship is. That's why for this podcast, I've invited Jillian Tekke on. She has this fabulous new book. She has a huge podcast, Jillian on Love. Probably the best voice in America for showing us how to build a relationship that lasts, how to build a relationship that sheds stress, and how to build a relationship that makes sure that you live to 100. Oh, my God, I'm so thrilled. So last time I saw you, you were Jillian, and now you're like this superstar.
- [04:24]
A
Oh, please.
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B
With the New York Instant New York Times bestseller. You were on with Oprah, and you're this huge celebrity.
- [04:32]
A
Oh, please. You are.
- [04:35]
B
Well, you know, the Dan Buettner podcast. I mean, what could be bigger?
- [04:38]
A
I mean, seriously, now I really made it.
- [04:40]
B
My focus for the past 20 years has been longevity and what we can do to live longer. And you might be wondering, well, why am I asking a relationship expert on a show that focuses on living longer and better? And unlike the Longevity Bros, the Hubermans, and the Atias who promote pumping iron and protein and rapamycin and metformin and other longevity hacks. When you go to the places in the world where people are actually achieving the outcomes we want, where they're actually living an extra 10 years, quality years. What's driving them is not diets, it's not exercise programs, it's not Instagram longevity hacks. It's things like having a sense of purpose, eating low on the food chain, being socially connected, putting family first, living close to the earth. And I first encountered you. I was driving across Alligator Alley here in Florida, and a friend of mine was in the. In the passenger seat, and she put on your podcast on Love. And I was instantly riveted. And it almost seemed like you just Channeled this pure limpet stream of wisdom and, and knowledge. And it felt like you were talking to me. And it's like everything you were saying is, oh my God, that's what I was looking for. And I was, I didn't know who you were. I'd never heard of your name, but I was instantly rivet. And then lo and behold, you move into my neighborhood. Our friend Jared connects us. And so I regard it as a huge blessing that you're here. But it's a huge blessing. I think what you give the world, I think you almost possess a shaman's ability to understand human nature and fuse it with your scientific background and give advice that talks to people's soul. What I'm hoping to do today is talk mainly about your fabulous New York Times bestselling, but instant New York Times bestseller selling book. Here it begins with you. Specifically, I'd like to harness your expertise in the service of helping people live longer. So what is it about building a good relationship and how to build a good relationship that can actually help people live longer? And if it's okay with you, I would like to start with June 2, 2014, one of the most riveting beginnings of any service book I've ever read. And I wonder if you would tell us what happened that day. And you get extra points for vulnerability.
- [07:24]
A
Well, I'm not gonna cry because here's the good news. We talked about purpose and meaning. I've created so much purpose and meaning from that date, which I will elaborate on in a moment, that it's lost. It doesn't have any emotional charge for me anymore, partially because it was in 2014 and we're in 2025, but also because the meaning that I give it is I wouldn't be sitting here today, I would not have written this book had that not happened. So June 2, 2014, basically I woke up to what was the end of a very early pregnancy. So it was a miscarriage only a few weeks in. And my then husband and I had been having problems in our very short two year marriage, but we were in a better place. And partially was that with the fact that my mom was dying of lung cancer. And so I woke up to that and basically had to go to the gynecologist alone because he said he was too busy at work. I know, it's like amazing, right? And then later that, and I just felt something was wrong. And later that day, I guess it was around 5 o', clock, I said, you know, when are you going to be home? And he Said, you know, I'm not coming home. I'm going to stay at my parents. And so that what ensued was just a really difficult conversation. And so basically the story is my ex husband broke up with me over text. And when I woke up to a miscarriage and my mom was dying of lung cancer. So that day was the beginning of a very deep, dark night of the soul. I went into a very severe depression and didn't know how I was gonna survive, but figured out a way. And one of the things that happened was I became obsessed with what makes a relationship work because I could not believe that I was in this situation. I was a yogi. I thought that I was like self aware. I just could not believe it. So I went on. It was very kind of you to say that I was shaman, like in the way that I deliver things. In my view, the metaphor that I think of is I went on a sort of shamanic journey to figure out, number one, how am I going to ever be okay again. Because when you go through something like that, as human beings, we can't even see past the situation that we're in. So we think that the experience that we are experiencing, we think the circumstance that we're experiencing is permanent. So I had to figure out a way to be happy again and to be stable again and how to figure out what makes a relationship work. And so I went into a deep dive and got incredibly educated and worked with the best mentors in the business, literally. And here I am today.
- [10:39]
B
You brought up this really good point about when people experience these tragedies that they think this is a permanent state and it's not, is it?
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A
No.
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B
Did you realize it wasn't when you were going through it?
- [10:55]
A
Because of my study of just of yoga, which, and the philosophies that are included in the yoga practice is the understanding that nothing is permanent. And so I knew that, but I couldn't. You know, when you're. You just think that your life is just falling apart. You said something in your introduction that you were talking about, you know, the wellness bros and, and what we're learning is that actually it's not just. It's living close to the earth, it's connection, it's family, it's putting family first. Like these are the things that add 10 years to your life and purpose and meaning. And it's interesting because I really believe in the mind, body, connection. I believe that the mind and the body are one. I think that most of the time when we are dealing with any sort of Chronic things. There's an emotional component. And I know that to be true also because I've worked with hundreds of people with headaches who, when they resolved a conflict with a key relationship in their life, whether that was a business partner, whether that was their lover, whether that was their mom, their dad, their sibling, the headache went away.
- [12:13]
B
Interesting.
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A
Yeah. So I think of it as sort of like a trilogy. It's a mind, body, relationship connection. Because our relationships really do determine the quality of our lives and that good relationships make us feel better and happier and healthier and bad relationships make us stressed out and sick and weak.
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B
To that point, a lot of people don't realize that a good marriage for a man adds seven to nine extra years of life expectancy. And for a woman it's two to four extra years. So it turns out that women are much better for men than men are for women. But nevertheless, everybody benefits from.
- [12:57]
A
Yes, that Harvard study. Yes, exactly.
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B
From a good. From your knowledge of a good relationship, how do you think it adds good years to our lives?
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A
Because we have to define what a good relationship is. It's definitely. Research suggests that having a best friend and a partner is really important. And you have this person, this companion who is there to sort of co regulate with you. I mean, that's really what you want, is someone you know. I had a conversation recently at a dinner with a woman who was married, happily married for 24 years. And she said that her marriage. And she's a very successful cmo, and she said that her marriage is her greatest accomplishment. It's the thing that she feels most proud of. So I asked her, I said, what are the top one or two keys to a successful marriage? And she said, number one, never keep score. There are gonna be days where you're gonna be at 80%, your spouse is gonna be at 20%, you need to actually put in the extra work. It's all going to balance. If you're both committed, it's all going to balance itself out. And then the second one was, if you need something, say it. And so what is it about that adds life? Having that person to co regulate with, Having that person to build a life with. Having someone who can be supportive and be your best friend. Yeah.
- [14:37]
B
I think there's just some matter of fact benefits. Like I was with my mom and dad recently. They've been married 66 years.
- [14:44]
A
Wow.
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B
And my mom's getting a little frail and she tripped over a chair and her head was going right for the corner of a counter. And my dad caught her I saw it, my mom would be dead right now, 100%. So I just think, I think women tend to be the health CEO of a family. That's from our Blue Zones research. So this is the best example of how a man benefits. But a man's more likely to eat better, more likely to sleep better, less likely to smoke when they're in a relationship than women.
- [15:24]
A
That's your research that found women are much healthier.
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B
They smoke at lower rates, they eat healthier, they're more cognizant, and that's, that's contagious to the partner.
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A
Got it.
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B
So that's why. But also they both help co mitigrate stress. There tends to be. I know people fight over money, but, but you're in an aggregate, better financial situation if you're, you know, with a partner. You basically, you're both chipping in on a house or in a couch or whatever it is and you're there to sort of catch each other. I would say, how about when? This would be a very hard question, but I'm asking it anyway.
- [16:03]
A
Bring it.
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B
When it comes to happiness, what percentage is a good relationship of the happiness equation or lack of happiness? In other words, how. When you think of all the things that contribute to our happiness, or lack thereof, where would you put a good relationship in that stack?
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A
Well, let me put it to you this way. I think that you can have all the money that you want in the bank. I think that you could be a rock star at work. I think you can have your health. But if your romantic relationship is struggling, if you're in one, you're going to wake up feeling empty. I would put relationship stress and health stress sort of at the same, but there's no stress other than maybe dire health stress. There is no stress like relationship stress. So I think that when our relationship is going well, that, that really does. I mean, look, we all have to have. We can think about happiness and then we can think about meaning and we can't always be happy, but we can be, we can actually be unhappy. And I'm not saying chronically unhappy. We could just be having an unhappy day, an unhappy week, an unhappy month, but we could still be fulfilled because we have meaning and we have purpose.
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B
Yes.
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A
So a relationship can add to our fulfillment in life and can definitely add to our happiness, but we also have to have some level of fulfillment outside of the relationship. And that is actually what deposits into the emotional bank account of the relationship are two people who actually have some sort of purpose. The purpose can be Whatever. It doesn't have to be a company. It doesn't have to be something major. It's just anything that gives your life meaning. So this idea of meaning and purpose is actually very relevant. Now. How much does a good relationship contribute to a person's well being? Hugely. There is no one other than your romantic partner who's going to impact your overall well being more. They're going to impact your nervous system, your sleep, your beliefs, your choices, your emotional state. So better choose wisely and better show up in a way that's attuned to that kind of impact.
- [18:42]
B
I was talking to Dr. Oz recently, and he has a wonderful wife named Lisa. But he says that his wife is 90% of his happiness, or lack thereof, depending on what date. I thought that's. But I mean, that echoes pretty much what you're saying here. It's arguably the most important life decision you'll make because when it comes to longevity, people look often for the silver bullet. They look for the short term fix that pill I can take, or I'm gonna run down to Central America and get stem cells. But the only things that work are things that are gonna help you make slightly better decisions every day for decades. And the right partner will help you do that. Which is why, I guess I'm just sort of reinforcing what you're saying about picking wisely. I always thought winter is the most revealing season. Things slow down, the noise fades, and you're given space to think about what really matters. For me, that reset usually starts at my lake house in Wisconsin. Snow on the ground, coffee on the stove, long walks where the only sound is the ice shifting along the shore. It's where I go to begin again. When I travel later in the season, though, it's comforting to know my home isn't sitting empty. By hosting it on Airbnb, I get to offer someone else that same pause, that same feeling of a fresh beginning. Hosting fits easily into my life. It's simple, meaningful, and it helps carry that spirit of renewal and connection forward. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much@airbnb.com host now. I have a friend here in Miami. His name is Peter. And he a good looking guy, very rich, had lots of girlfriends, beautiful women, and they were all kind of unfulfilled, you know, like many guys will do. He sort of went towards the shiny thing. And after half a dozen failures, he got very deliberate about it. He wrote a list down of the qualities he was looking for in a partner, and they were Partners that transcended sort of physical sexuality. It was, would they like my family? Are they athletic like I am? Do they have a sense of life purpose? Do they add to the relationship? And he was very methodical about the women he dated after that. And if they didn't meet his criteria, he didn't get involved, he didn't go to bed with them, he didn't go on a second date with them.
- [21:39]
A
Are you sure he didn't go to bed with them?
- [21:41]
B
I am. At least when, I mean, he wore himself out going to bed with beautiful.
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A
Women and he realized he got really serious.
- [21:52]
B
Yeah, that's like Sisyphus. You roll in the bul. The hill. Next morning it's at the bottom of the hill. And you got to figure out how to get out of the bedroom.
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A
Yes.
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B
And so no. He got wisdom over time and now he's very happily married and he has a partner. He has that best friend. You were talking.
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A
Oh, that's wonderful.
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B
But I'm wondering when you advise people about finding a good relationship, because a lot of what we talk about, I'm in the relationship. How do I make it work now? But do you talk much about.
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A
The.
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B
Methodology you go through to make sure you're finding the right person to begin with?
- [22:26]
A
Yeah. And it starts with understanding yourself and your values and what it is that you want. And these are things that we don't typically, or a lot of people don't typically ask themselves this because everyone has a romantic or relationship blueprint that they go out into the world in and it's you. And most of the time, once you hit your 30s, you gotta update that blueprint. Cause that blueprint usually begins when we're very young. And it's influenced by culture, it's influenced by film and television, and it's influenced by our family, it's influenced by our friends. It's just we're conditioned. And so we think we also are very influenced by romanticism. We think we're gonna meet this person, we're gonna have the butterflies, we're gonna have this amazing, amazing connection and then we're gonna be together. And when we are looking at long term partnership. And if that's what you want, if you're at, you know, at a certain age where that becomes a priority to you, you have to look for different things. But the only way that you're gonna understand what to look for is by understanding yourself. So that's why self reflection and having some sort of self understanding is so important to the process. And you, and you Gain that self understanding by looking at your past relationships, seeing what worked, what didn't work. And then there's a very key component to this that a lot of people don't talk about, which is what do you have to change inside of you to actually be attractive to the person who you wish to be?
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B
Boy, that's a tough one though, isn't it? Because we often don't see our own flaws. And even if we do, we don't know how to fix them or we don't wanna fix them.
- [24:12]
A
Yeah. Or they're the people with low self esteem who think they have to be perfect. And it's. None of that is true. It's just if you want someone who is a great communicator, you have to be able to confront the ways in which you need to improve your communication. It's so important that everyone knows the wonderful things that they bring to the table. Because if you think you bring nothing to the table in a relationship, then you are going to settle for way less than what your soul deserves. So you need to know that. But you also need to know the ways in which you can be challenging to be in a relationship with. And you need to be fiercely committed to working on those patterns.
- [24:55]
B
You know, when I hear you speak, here I go. So much of longevity advice is advice, but they don't tell you how to do it. It's like, well, eat healthy. Well, what does that mean? And how do I do it for the month or year or two years or you know, socially connect? Well, what does that mean? And you know, one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you here today is because we know that living in a committed relationship, a good relationship, will help you live longer. But actually, how do you do it? And I'm wondering if you've ever thought about or if you advise people and actually writing down what the values you have and what you're looking in, the shortcomings you have and what you'll tolerate in others, what you bring to the table and kind of what you write it all down.
- [25:48]
A
Yeah, write it all down. And stay away from height, looks. I mean, look, you have to be attracted to the person. The goal is if you're just used to being attracted to the charming shiny object that you know, maturity is being attracted to qualities that are not just about, not just about what's on the outside. I would never suggest, oh yeah, make yourself attracted to someone who you find very unattractive. That's not gonna work. But like I said, maturity and wisdom and just growth is when you can. That you can meet someone and they can look exactly like your type. Like you could think they are stunning, hot, whatever. But if they lack depth, if they lack certain character traits that you're actually. You're like, yeah, no, like, not worth it. Not worth it to go down that road. I want someone who I am attracted to. And part of what's gonna make me attracted to them and is something that's coming through them from the inside, not just the outside.
- [27:02]
B
How about the reverse joined? How about somebody who lines up perfectly? They share all my values. They're good person. You admire their work. They're compassionate, they're understanding, they're financially secure, all that. But you don't find them all that hot.
- [27:20]
A
Yeah. So this is a very nuanced. This is nuanced. So I think we should get into it. Cause I think it's important. You can't force chemistry, you can't force attraction. But there's a few different angles we need to look at. So if I'm speaking to the person, let's say I'm speaking to the woman who has always gone for the bad boy. And by that I mean the loser. Because the bad boy in film is depicted as extremely masculine and sexy and hot. In reality, he's a loser. Because the bad boy in reality is narcissistic, he's selfish, he's not going to change, he's avoidant, he's all the things you don't want. So if she has a tendency to only go for that, then I might coach her to say, you know, can you give this five dates to see if something develops and something grows? Because for women, sometimes when we feel really supported and safe, like that builds attraction. It's not the same thing for men. Men are looking for something else. They wanna feel supported and safe, but that's not the number one thing for a man.
- [28:38]
B
Interesting.
- [28:39]
A
It's not. Can you verify?
- [28:41]
B
I verify from this side of the table.
- [28:43]
A
Yeah, but yet it's still. It's a piece of the puzzle. You don't wanna be in a relationship with someone where you don't feel safe to be yourself. So it depends. Sometimes the cookie crumbles. That way, you know, you meet someone who's great and they're physically flawed in such a way that you can't get past it. And when I say physically flawed, I'm not.
- [29:08]
B
I'm speaking bad teeth or something.
- [29:09]
A
I'm not talking. Yeah, but bad teeth, you should be able to get over. Okay, I'm talking about in your Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So in your perspective, they are just physically so off the mark that the idea of sleeping with them makes your stomach turn. But sometimes it just happens. But can you give someone a chance? Is that really true? Is the dialogue in your head? Well, they're just not who I expected or they're not my type. Soon as someone tells me, well, they're not my type, then I know I'm dealing with someone who needs to mature a little bit. Because your type, you need to be able to expand your type. But if you're like, they're great, but physically, no, I get nauseous thinking about being intimate with them. You can't change that. You will never be able to change yourself. Yeah.
- [29:53]
B
So choose right in the first place. Fascinating discussion here on the connection between relationships and longevity. I would go as far as to say one of the four pillars of longevity is having a good relationship, maintaining it. And people overlook these things with all relationships too.
- [30:12]
A
With your family, with your friends, with your co workers. And yes, who you choose to partner with is the most important decision you will ever make. But it also means if there's some long standing beefs with certain people, see if you can release it or address it, fix it. Because that will add, I think, to your longevity. Because it's the stress, right?
- [30:39]
B
It is to your point. You know, every time we feel angry or worried or anxious, it triggers something called the inflammatory response that leaches chemicals into your bloodstream which shrinks your brain wrinkles. Your skin is the root cause of cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer's. So if you're in a relationship where you're constantly stressed out, you are going to die quicker. On the other hand, if you are in a relationship where you feel safe and secure, where you can shed stress with that relationship, that is literally adding years to your life.
- [31:18]
A
Right there, you said it perfectly.
- [31:20]
B
So it's so important. I'm wondering, you brought up a really good point about for women, feeling safe and secure is the most important thing. For men, it's different. What advice do you give men in general for how they can proactively feed a relationship or build a relationship or nurture a relationship. Then I'm going to ask for women too, by the way.
- [31:50]
A
Okay, so we're going to say generally and then we're going to say just for specifically women.
- [31:53]
B
Yes, let's do that.
- [31:54]
A
Okay. I think what everyone can do, let me start with that, is work on your own self awareness, overcome your selfishness. Because we all have a tendency to be selfish make someone else's needs as important as your own. Not more important, not less important.
- [32:19]
B
I'm going to push you on that. How did we actually do that, though? Yeah, it all sounds great and I believe you, but when I think, well, how do I become more generous? How do I become self aware? I don't know how to do that.
- [32:33]
A
Self reflection. Meditation or meditation helps? Absolutely. Sometimes it's simple questions like, I'm about to do something. How is it going to affect this person? I'm in a bad mood. Am I going to come home and just dump it on my partner? Or am I going to go for a walk or a run or a bike ride so I can get out of that state, so I can come home to a better. In a better state? I'm in a bad mood. I took it out on my partner because we're gonna do that. Am I gonna take prompt responsibility and just say, I'm really sorry, you didn't deserve that.
- [33:13]
B
Oh, wow. What I'm feeling here is the it begins with you workbook. You know these things instinctively, but somebody like me and I have the emotional intelligence of a small soap dish. I would love to, like, be told, boom. Well, what. What should I do exactly, but keep going, I'm down here.
- [33:36]
A
So that these are the things to kind of work on your own personal development and also listen more than you speak. Become a really great listener. So let me talk about men specifically and how they can be better partners to their women partners or their feminine partners, whatever it is. So men, typically, when they see a problem, they want to fix it. When a woman is having a problem, sometimes she wants you to fix it, but oftentimes what she needs is to vent and for you to listen and not judge her.
- [34:18]
B
Can you just ask which one of those she wants at this moment, or do you have to intuit it?
- [34:22]
A
Yes, you can say, do you want to just be held right now, just be listened to, or do you want my advice?
- [34:29]
B
I love this. This is so great.
- [34:32]
A
What every woman craves is so in general, women have a higher level of emotional intelligence. We're more connected to our emotional inner world, just in general. What comes with that is, in general, more emotional fluctuations than her masculine counterpart. We want. And some of that has to do with her cycle. But even menopausal women, it's just part of estrogen. We want our partner to be able to be like, I can handle that now. That doesn't give us a pass to bring in storms constantly and be totally dysregulated and Be a bitch or whatever. But we want to be able to have overwhelm and some anxiety and some like fluctuation in our emotions and have our partner be like, it's okay, I'm here. I'm here. That is like gold.
- [35:42]
B
I love that.
- [35:44]
A
Instead of going right into logic and fixing and all of that. And like, why can't you just like. Because we know that sometimes you can see the solution a lot more clearly than we can. But we need to be understood and heard and just held and not feel like you're just there to kind of fix.
- [36:07]
B
And I can tell you from personal experience, I instantly default to fixing it.
- [36:12]
A
Yeah, well, most men do. And I think that women, and part of what women need to understand are those who date men need to understand is to understand that. And so not to think like, oh, he doesn't care about me. It's like, no, he's in fix it mode.
- [36:26]
B
Yeah.
- [36:27]
A
But for a woman, care will come more in the like, honey, I've got you, or like a hug or I'm here for you. And then you can say, do you want my advice? And if she says no, you gotta just bite your tongue and be like, okay, she'll take my advice when she's ready. But also, I can trust her to also follow her own instincts.
- [36:49]
B
I love the phrase I got you.
- [36:51]
A
Yeah.
- [36:52]
B
And then shut up.
- [36:53]
A
And then just shut up.
- [36:57]
B
Okay, how about for women and same sex marriages? Maybe you want to talk about that too, because I know those people.
- [37:05]
A
Yeah, it's just everyone. And also you can be in a same same sex marriage and be in a relationship with someone who's more of the fixer and you're more of the one who's emotive. Right, there's. That happens all the time. So my advice to women, same thing. It does begin with you. You have to take responsibility for the things that you bring to a relationship as well. Women tend to get into abusive relationships more frequently than men do. They tend to, they can be in relationships with people who abuse them more than men get into relationships who abuse them. So for them, it's really important to make sure that they are, that they have a standard that they are speaking up for what they need. Just like men have a tendency to want to fix everything, women have a tendency to want to just like be like a good girl and please and over nurture. So you got to make sure that you are saying your needs. Everyone has to make sure that they are not keeping score and that if they need something, they're saying Something, they're saying it. But also I think that. And one thing that I want to say that's really important, that's also in the book. Our mind can be a battlefield. So watch the stories that you are creating about your partner. They don't care if they did this. They would. Blah, blah, blah. You have to really watch what's going on in the mind. Everyone has to do that. And when you love someone, it's important to give them the benefit of the doubt. And so give me an example of that. Yeah. So I'll just use a very low hanging fruit example. Your partner didn't do the dishes. They said they would. And then you're like, you know what? I knew they didn't care. I knew that they're not all in. I knew that they were just like that. They're not as committed. When really what may have happened is they were so exhausted, they were working really hard. Yes. Maybe they should have done the dishes. We don't have to excuse the fact that they didn't do the dishes, but we don't have to give it the meaning that they don't actually care. The reason why they didn't do the dishes is not because they don't love you.
- [39:33]
B
In the parlance of happiness, it's called a confirmation bias.
- [39:38]
A
Yes.
- [39:38]
B
You're angry about something and then you see something that could be attributable to something completely different and you say, see, there it is again.
- [39:46]
A
Yes.
- [39:46]
B
And it's not necessarily true.
- [39:48]
A
It's not necessarily true. And so we have to be very, very, very mindful. Mindfulness is the biggest key to relationship.
- [39:55]
B
Yeah.
- [39:56]
A
We have to bring mindfulness to everything we do.
- [39:59]
B
Boy, that's a tough one to remember though.
- [40:01]
A
Yeah. When you're upset and when you're triggered. But you have to, you have to take a deep breath. The couples that really make it, when there's a problem, they join forces to attack the problem. They don't attack each other.
- [40:18]
B
Oh, I love that. So you're a team.
- [40:21]
A
You're a team. And the best couples I know, they are a team.
- [40:27]
B
Yeah.
- [40:28]
A
That doesn't mean that they don't have arguments and disagreements.
- [40:30]
B
By the way, we've been fighting too much. How do we not fight so much as opposed to.
- [40:37]
A
Yeah. You know, because oftentimes when you're fighting too much, you think you're fighting about the dishes, but what you're fighting for is some sort of control, power. It's all sorts of things.
- [40:47]
B
And I'm just framing really the fighting thing. It's like people who fight, they often say, well, you did that, you did that, as opposed to saying no. The big problem is we have a relationship here that has a speed bump here. And how do we get over this? You know, I was looking for different areas where your work and my work overlap. And you know, I wrote this cover story for National Geographic on happiness and, and it was focused on the statistical underpinnings of happiness. So rather than sort of positive psychology, what is big data? And in nations or in populations, among the biggest predictor of happiness in a nation, of course, income and equality are important, but the biggest one is trust. Can I trust my politicians? Can I trust my the policemen? Can I trust each other? One of the best experiments done was it was done in New York City, Brazil and in Denmark, where they dropped 25 wallets with identifying a card, identifying who the owner was, and they put money in there. And the card said, if found, please return to this address. And in New York, about half of them were returned. They were just dropped randomly through New York. In Brazil, none of them were returned. So whoever found the wallet kept the money and kept the wallet. And in Denmark, they were all returned. So you talk a lot about self trust. You know, this is trust. And I'm wondering if maybe you could help connect the dots between trust in populations and self trust and how that contributes to a situation that produces happiness.
- [42:40]
A
We suffer when we don't believe that we can trust ourselves. And in fact, I think that oftentimes when let's say a person gets really hurt in a relationship and they break up and let's say they were very betrayed and then they go out into the dating world and they keep saying, you know, I just can't trust men or I can't trust women. Really what they're saying is I can't trust myself to make the right decision moving forward in a relationship. So self trust is a key pillar of happiness and of self esteem. How do we develop it? Well, we develop it through practice. We practice keeping our promises to ourselves. And if you're someone who's used to going to a large amount of people for advice, in order to make a decision that's not even that large, you have to actually be disciplined and stop.
- [43:39]
B
Asking everyone, oh God, I do that all the time.
- [43:41]
A
Well, but here's the tricky thing. Asking people's advice can be very strategic and very smart. But I'm talking about if you have a pattern of struggling and ruminating and obsessing over a decision and having to ask everyone's opinion all the time before you can make a decision. So you have to learn how to actually make decisions. And what that means is that sometimes you'll make the wrong decision and you have to be okay with that because that's how you learn and that's how you build your trust, your self trust muscle and being able to listen to your gut, to your intuition. Incredibly, incredibly important.
- [44:18]
B
Just to put a finer point on that. Cause I think it's so important that building self trust is really about taking a risk at a certain point.
- [44:28]
A
You have to.
- [44:30]
B
And then living with the consequences and learning from the consequences. And the next time you make a decision, it'll be more refined. You'll have this experience that I think that's such a powerful piece of simple and actionable advice.
- [44:45]
A
Important.
- [44:46]
B
I do want to talk about the book because it's so good. I just, you know, it rockets you into it with that great anecdote of. And by the way, I think if you look at the genealogy of most blessings, you'll find a catastrophe or disaster. And you know, I couldn't help but think all this wonderful, well deserved success you're enjoying right now has its roots in this really terrible day on June 2, 2014. And. And, but you've written this book and you've organized it around these nine rules, these nine lessons. And why did you organize it like that?
- [45:28]
A
Yeah, so when I was thinking about the book and the nine truths, I thought about that for about a year and a half. And so I was. There were so many different. I was like, okay, here's 5, here's 10, here's 12. So I think maybe subliminally, like unconsciously, 9 is my favorite number. And so maybe that was part of it. I had some sort of attachment to being an odd number. I have no idea why. It's kind of an od, an odd thing. But there was a lot. I mean I had notes and notes and notes where I did this and then I crossed this out and crossed. So it was a year and a half process and I just felt like these were the right ones. There's one that I actually would have added if I were to write the book all over again. And maybe it would have been the 10 hard truths about Love, which is. Cause there's one that says you can't convince someone to love you.
- [46:21]
B
Yeah, that's in there, right?
- [46:22]
A
That's in there. The one that I would have added is you can't change anyone but yourself.
- [46:30]
B
But you can talk somebody into changing themselves.
- [46:32]
A
You can influence, you can Influence, but you can't change anyone. And I think that that's really important because a lot of people get into relationships and think, oh, I can change them, you know, or even if it's unconscious or they're not liking the way the person is, it's like you want to change them, so you can't. But, yeah, that was about a year and a half process. And I feel really. I was like, I just wanted the ones that there were.
- [46:54]
B
Did you know you wanted nine and then you filled it out or you had nine and it was lucky.
- [46:58]
A
It was like. It was sort of back and forth. It was like, is this going to be 6, 7, 9? Like. And then I thought, okay, so if I. Since I like the number nine, what are. What are they? But I wasn't going. I wasn't so committed to the nine that I was going to belabor it. It just all worked out.
- [47:15]
B
By the way, blue zones, we have the power nine. So my book also has nine lessons for living longer. So let's just say that's the magic number. That's the correct number.
- [47:26]
A
Yeah.
- [47:26]
B
And of these nine, does one stand out as being more powerful or.
- [47:33]
A
I think it depends who's reading it. I mean, obviously the first one, it begins with you. It's the title of the book, I think, that sets the tone of everything, which is because people think, well, if I'm taking accountability, then I'm to blame. It's not about that. It's literally about, you are so much more powerful than you think. And if you keep trying to change all your surroundings and all the other people and try to change the circumstances, you can. But you can actually make some shifts to you, Your thinking, your beliefs, your choices, and that will have a profound ripple effect on your entire life, specifically your love life, when you.
- [48:13]
B
You know, there's a number of people in this space, Esther Perel and famous people who help.
- [48:21]
A
Yeah.
- [48:22]
B
With relationships. What is your superpower? What? What, what, what? It begins with you. What does that offer us that we might not see elsewhere? What's your. What's. What do you think right off the.
- [48:40]
A
You.
- [48:41]
B
You make it simple for people. And I think you can get lost in the jargon.
- [48:46]
A
Yeah.
- [48:47]
B
You distill it down into actionable things. And you also have a gift which you may not recognize or you may not want to admit, but you have a way of channeling information and understanding what people want to hear and delivering it to them in a way where people feel like you care about them. And I'm sure you do. I Know you enough to know you really do. And that comes through. It's not just, you know, marketing or it's not, you know, I'm building my practice. It's no, you know, I live this. And it was hard, and I learned some lessons, and I'm now going to take those lessons and help other people live a richer life. I really feel that comes through.
- [49:36]
A
Thank you.
- [49:37]
B
I don't know enough about the feel to be able to compare you to others. You know, you're my guru.
- [49:44]
A
I think we all add our own texture to the conversation, you know, and we all add our own thing. I mean, my big thing is that it does begin with you. And I'm also very. I believe that so much of our relationship life depends on our relationship with ourselves. So I'm really focused on the relationship with self and how that plays out in our relationships.
- [50:11]
B
Such an important starting place. Yeah. As you point out with, you have to know your values in order to understand what values you want in somebody else. So that requires a little bit of self reflection.
- [50:21]
A
Yes, yes.
- [50:23]
B
Your shortcomings, your strengths, what you bring.
- [50:26]
A
To the table and your weaknesses. Yeah.
- [50:29]
B
So has all this wisdom and notoriety worked for, you know, have you found love?
- [50:39]
A
And everyone always asks me that.
- [50:43]
B
Oh, of course. It's like everybody asked me, what do I do to live longer. You know, that's when I trot out the beans.
- [50:50]
A
Okay. So I think this is because I get these questions a lot and people always want to know certain things. So my relationships that I had after my divorce were all really, really lovely. And nothing was painful for me. And I broke so many patterns. I lived my whole life, not my whole life, but since puberty, up until 40 years old, only, like, so hyper focused on having a relationship. And I was always in a relationship. And it was like the main goal for me, for me personally, to find meaning and purpose in life that wasn't about me. Being in a relationship or being loved by someone in that way, for me personally, was incredibly empowering. It no longer was the most important thing to me. So my focus hasn't been on finding a partner. My focus has been more on helping others choose wisely and to embrace their singlehood for those who are single so that you can. So you don't settle. So currently I'm not romantically involved. Am I open to it? Yes. But do I feel like something's, like, missing from my life, not having it? Maybe just a tiny bit. But it's. But it's not something that keeps me up at night and in the past it did. And so that's where I'm at.
- [52:31]
B
How do you flip that switch?
- [52:33]
A
From what?
- [52:34]
B
From being relationship focused. Thinking that's the most important thing in my life. And I think it is for a lot of people. And indeed it may be.
- [52:43]
A
Yes.
- [52:43]
B
And that's totally fine in very sort of quantitative ways. But how do you get comfortable with. Okay, it's not the be all and end all. Right now I'm going to get comfortable with myself.
- [52:59]
A
I think I started to. I started to develop things inside of me that I didn't know I had. And that made my life very rich, emotionally rich. And so then it didn't make me feel so. Like, it just filled the. It filled the void.
- [53:21]
B
I think a lot of people listening to us right now are in suboptimal relationships, and part of the reason they don't get out of that relationship is because, oh, I'm going to be alone and I'm going to be alone forever. Nobody's going to love me. So I'm going to put up with this crappy. So I'm going to ask two questions here. They're both related. How do you know when to pull the rip cord?
- [53:48]
A
Yeah, Million dollar question.
- [53:50]
B
And then just to set a little bit more specificity, okay, I pull the rip cord. Now I'm alone. How do I. How. What do I do to get comfortable with being alone?
- [54:04]
A
Okay, so if you are in a suboptimal relationship, that's different than being in a relationship that feels terrible. It just doesn't feel as fulfilling anymore. Do something about it, which is not leaving before you leave. Do something about it. Are you not having sex? Why are you not having fun with each other? Why? And how might you be complicit in that? Why do something about it before you walk away? We. A relationship needs to be nourished, needs to be fed, needs to be given nutrients. If you just ignore it, it's gonna wither. So before you leave that suboptimal relationship, ask yourself, how have I contributed to this relationship withering? And how committed am I to make sure that we bring it back? Some relationships have just really run their course, or you're just simply with the wrong person, or they've become the wrong person or they legitimately suck and they treat you terribly like these things happen. It will always be better to be alone than to be in a relationship where you're chronically lonely, where you've done the work, where you've really put in work or whatever it is. It's always, always Going to be better alone. It's going to feel weird at first, but ultimately to kind of go bring our conversation full circle. Today, a bad relationship will actually take years off your life. And so face your loneliness, face the aloneness, and then revel in the fact that you don't have to deal with that BS anymore.
- [56:00]
B
And then take the accumulated wisdom for your next one.
- [56:04]
A
Absolutely work on the things that you need to work on, because everyone will have some sort of journey or task that they need to take on in terms of what they need to work. For some people, it's learning how to have fun. For some people, it's financial stability. Whatever it is you get out of that relationship, work on what you need to work on and keep going.
- [56:26]
B
I love it. What's the biggest takeaway you want readers of? It begins with you to have that.
- [56:36]
A
The most important relationship you will ever have is the one with yourself. And that doesn't mean that you become more selfish and only focus on yourself, but you want to focus on being a better partner, being a better person, and finding more meaning and purpose in life. And so that it really, truly does begin with us. And if we want changes in our life, if we want to add the 10 years, we're going to actually have to change certain things. We're going to have to heal certain things. For some people, it's changing their diet. For some people, it's more community. For some people, it's moving so they're closer to the earth. But it's never going to be about someone coming into your life and rescuing you. It's never going to be about that pill. It's never going to be just like the cold plunge therapy. It's so much more than that.
- [57:30]
B
I'd say. It's always an ecosystem.
- [57:32]
A
It's always an ecosystem. It's true.
- [57:34]
B
And I would agree with you that your partner in life is the most important. It's the center of those concentric circles of that ecosystem. I cannot recommend It Begins with youh Highly Enough. Instant New York Times bestseller. Oprah waxed rhapsodically about it. Congratulations on that one. And you're a podcast on Love. Anybody in a relationship should listen to that.
- [58:00]
A
Jillian on Love.
- [58:01]
B
Jillian on Love.
- [58:02]
A
Yeah.
- [58:02]
B
And your Instagram, you want to just say what your Instagram.
- [58:08]
A
Yeah, basically, you just need to know my name. Illiantareki. And you'll find me all over. Okay.
- [58:13]
B
Any other way we can engage with you for women?
- [58:17]
A
I have a membership called the Conscious Woman, and that's where I do some group coaching. There's all my workshops and stuff and all my offerings kind of live inside this membership, and it's a global community, and that's it.
- [58:29]
B
Fantastic. Well, I cannot thank you enough for that. I felt it was a tsunami of charm and love and shamanistic wisdom. And I'll see you when you're 100. And all of you listening, watching, right now. We'll see you when you're 100, too.
- [58:44]
A
Thank you so much for having me.
- [58:45]
B
Thank you.