Case Kenny (5:04)

That's so kind of you. Thank you. You're always so nice to me, which I always appreciate. Anytime we're at a party, you always introduce me with such praise to other people. So genuinely appreciate you. And you know, I, you know, the opportunity to talk about what I'm passionate about is when I'll always take.

Dan Buettner (5:19)

So I trash most people. I happen to really like you.

Case Kenny (5:22)

That makes it even, even more valuable. Thank you for sparing me. I'm sure you trash eloquently as well, so thank you.

Dan Buettner (5:30)

So, so tell us a little bit about you, about where you came from and, and where this inner voice comes from and I guess the most important thing and maybe put this at the top where Your work inspires people or. Or where your work helps people live a better life?

Case Kenny (5:54)

Yeah, Yeah. I start with that specifically because that's how it came from. My life personally is like, the aim of my work is very simple. It's to help people be more optimistic, which is a goal that. Who wouldn't want to be more optimistic? Right? We all have things that are painful, that feel confusing. Who wouldn't want to be able to amidst that and say, ah, it's all good. I still believe good things can happen. So that's my goal. And that's a. A vague, ambitious goal, of course. But for me, it's very simple. Like, the way to be more optimistic is you change the way you talk to yourself about yourself and about your presence in life, your experiences in life. It truly. It boils down to emotional vocabulary for me. What are the. What are the literal words that you use to speak to yourself in reaction to what you feel in your life? So to answer your question, I mean, so I'm. I'm 37 now. I had a whole career before this. I worked in advertising technology, sales for a long time in Chicago. Really enjoyed that. I was pretty introverted and didn't really have a strong center of, like, truth in life. I didn't have opinions of my own. I felt, you know, a little bit lost in my 20s, but say I did. I entered this sales roast that was an account executive at this company. I worked my way up to a regional vice president. I really liked who I'd become as a salesperson. I always think people should try sales at some point in their life. It really teaches you a lot about yourself. But anyway, I got really good at sales, and I was being promoted and making money, and I was like, it's so weird to me how I'm so certain and confident in that area of life, but as like a human, as a boyfriend, as a brother, as a son. I just didn't have a center of truth. And that really frustrated to me that I felt like I was just borrowing other people's goals and expectations and the whole thing. So my solution was very simple and kind of in a meta way, now that I do it full time, is I started this podcast, new mindset who dis with the goal of forcing myself to vocalize feelings, goals, ambitions, everything. I saw it as, like, a mix of creative and vulnerability. And at the time in 2018, less people were podcasting and there were fewer men sharing their feelings. So I saw it as this, like, vulnerable thing, and the rest is honestly history because What I learned from the podcast. And I would basically do these short 20 minute episodes, no guests, because that was the whole thing. I didn't want to just borrow and regurgitate from other people. I wanted to be able to sit down and describe a feeling, describe an ambition and say, where is it coming from? Is this a firsthand experience or is this a secondhand expectation that I'm borrowing? And through that I really have come to realize what I do, which is a very practical form of mindfulness, a big umbrella term, right? To me, mindfulness has become very simple. It's the art of listening to yourself and more importantly, the one that I really lean into. It's the art of talking to yourself. And that's what I help people do with words and language and word choice. How do we speak to ourselves about emotions? I found more often than not, we're using the wrong words. We're using words that are just burdened by permanence and all those things combined. When you practice that you are burdened, leading yourself to be more optimistic, you're talking to yourself in a kind way, in a fair way, in a way, in a way that allows for things to change. So that's the long or the short. Really, it's, it's a passion for language. Like in, in college I majored in Chinese and Arabic and you know, I lived in China for a bit. I've been all over and it was always interesting because I was like. And then I. And then I moved to Chicago and worked in marketing and I was like, I guess, you know, that was just a fun time in my life. But now looking back, it just makes sense why I've always been drawn to language. Like I took five years of Latin in high school. I don't know if they still teach Latin, but I was really good at it. I got all fives on the APS and was like one of like 12 people in this class. I just always love languages. And now looking back, it makes sense of the power of language, the energy of language.

Dan Buettner (9:41)

You know, the. In 1960, the average 16 year old child or teenager had 25,000 words in his or her vocabulary because they read all the time, you know, maybe TV once in a while. Now it's down to 10,000. And I always think of vocabulary. The words you have is tools and fine tools. And when you only have 10,000 words, you end up using blunt instruments or sort of the language equivalent of emoticons. Whereas if you can take out, if you have 25,000 words, if you can use A word like phlegmatic instead of tired, it conveys a completely different sound.

Case Kenny (10:26)

Way cooler too. Yeah, yeah, let's be real.

Dan Buettner (10:28)

You know, phlegmatic sounds like tired. You know, it's like Flemmy. Yeah. So I guess I'm just reaffirming the, the importance of language. To nuance your thoughts.

Case Kenny (10:39)

Yes.

Dan Buettner (10:40)

To be able to refine what you're thinking about. You know, you were. Before we got on here, you said something very revealing, that on the way over here, your wife was working on whatever she's working on phone, and you were just talking to yourself. I just sort of streaming wisdom. I can imagine. Yeah, but you said that you used to be very introverted, you didn't talk much, and all of a sudden you, you, you're this wellspring of, of wisdom and you know, social media and books and, you know, network tv. I'm just wondering what was the. What unleashed what you had been holding on the inside? What, what was the catalyst that brought forth this, this sort of modern day poetry and wisdom?

Case Kenny (11:23)

Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I think certainly we all change and that could just be a maturity thing, but for me, I've always had this creative spark inside of me. But I think like many people, imposter syndrome comparison, just general nervousness and insecurity, bottle that up.

Dan Buettner (11:39)

But you didn't like go get naked in the jungle and do ayahuasca?

Case Kenny (11:42)

No, no, it wasn't anything extreme. But honestly it was. Stepping into the podcast and then doing sales also. Concur. Just made me realize the power that I have to project thoughts and influence people. I mean, it's like I always talk about like mindfulness. Like, mindfulness is a muscle. Like, the more you practice it, the better you get at. It's the same with anything, communicating, writing, whatever it is. Like, I've written tens of thousands of pages and quotes and things over the past seven years. Like, I've just gotten much better at it. Like when I think about what the podcast has empowered me to do, it's gotten. I'm much better now at being able to sit in a feeling and say, okay, this is how I feel. I could put language behind it. But also, most importantly, now I'm able to say, okay, this is what I make of it. Whereas in the past, I, I don't know, maybe it goes back to some of what you just mentioned around vocabulary. I think I used to use a lot of like forest instead of trees, language, waves, you know, oceans instead of waves, type language. It would always be Like I feel anxious and that's a big feeling. So I guess it is what it is. But versus, is it that I feel anxious or is it that I'm feeling overwhelmed or unstimulated or whatever more specific word that I can lean into? That's what I've gotten so much better at. Whereas before I just didn't have the spark to do it. And there's probably other environmental, you know, ideas too. Like I surround myself with a quality group of friends, like six or seven riders. And like this sounds cheesy, but like we like I'm on a text with my buddy Mike. Like he'll send a full photo of his journal from that day, like just unprompted, just because he felt that it was powerful and we might enjoy it. Like really cool stuff that like really I'm like, why wouldn't I be honest and vulnerable with myself and with other people? And I think before in my 20s living in Chicago, I just maybe didn't have that. So I think environment is hugely important. In addition to your own self practice and in addition to seeing it as a muscle and you get better at it and it feels, feels better.

Dan Buettner (13:41)

I argue that one of the most powerful longevity strategies there, there is is curating a circle of friends who have healthy habits to begin with.

Case Kenny (13:51)

Yeah.

Dan Buettner (13:52)

Whose idea of recreation is, you know, pickleball or dancing or swimming or gardening and who care about you. On a bad day you can. People with whom you can have a meaningful conversation. Why is that such a great longevity hack over, you know, rapamycin or metformin? Because when it comes to longevity, there's no short term fix. There's nothing you can do today or this week or this month other than not die that will have any impact on whether or not you're alive and Vital in 2030. Friends tend to be long term adventures and they tend to have a measurable impact on how you behave, how you think, your stress level, what you do in your free time, what you smoke or don't smoke. So, you know, I think you've intuited or stumbled upon really a powerful idea. I also want to go back to something else that you said. You know, your pedigree of being a salesperson. I think people tend to under celebrate the power of a salesperson. A good salesperson has to metabolize information, synthesize. He has to understand who he or she is talking to and has to put it in a language where you're convincing them that this is good for them. And actually for what you do which is a massive influencer. At the end of the day, you have this sound advice, but unless you can figure out how to put that in a package that people are going to read and understand and care about, and unless you understand who they are so that it's shaped in a way that, you know, it'll mean something to them. You know, I think everybody should have a stint as a salesperson for a while.

Case Kenny (15:33)

I fully agree. I think wait tables and do sales. You do those at some point in your teens, maybe wait tables and then do try sales at some point in whatever capacity you can, your 20s. It's exactly that. It's a combination of empathy. For one, you've got to be able to see their world, their context, their goals. But two, it's all about the context of the language. Like, there's a lot of brilliant people who do similar things to me that I do, and it's amazing and I love them. The space that I try to occupy is. I call it golden retriever language. How simple can I make some of these complex truths? Because I think that's what people crave in life, right? Simplicity. And you read my stuff. I'm not reinventing the wheel with language. Yeah, sometimes I'll use clever word pairs and a synonym perhaps that you haven't thought of. And yes, I do consider it poetry. But how simple can I make it? That's my goal.

Dan Buettner (16:23)

I want to read one of your famous red quotes, hand drawn. This is from April 2nd. This is from Case Kenny's Instagram feed. I just love reads. I have a new plan. Colon. Be unreasonably delusional about what I want until it's my reality. Is that brilliant or what it's like, Take off all of the strictures, think big and keep thinking big, even though you think there's no way in hell this is going to come to fruition. And then one day it does.

Case Kenny (16:56)

Like that one, for instance. Like, I use the word delusional a lot because it's a catchy word and people like it. But, like, I think it's powerful because, like, optimism, delusional optimism, being unhinged and hopeful in life. Like, all those things are umbrella antidotes to cynicism, which I think. Cynicism, resentment, those kinds of things, we know that they're killers of relationships. Like, if you ever read any of, like, the Gottman Institute, we know that among all the things that can destroy a relationship, resentment is number one. It's the same with yourself, I would think. Your longevity, your overall mental health like, how do we avoid allowing a cynical mindset toward the world to develop? Something like that speaks to the power of the opposite of that. Like, I remember reading this study, I don't remember it was, I think I read it in Harvard Business Review, but it was basically, it looked at groups of people in the workplace and it divided them basically into two groups, like cynics and like hopeful people. And it basically showed that, you know, cynics were people who were like, it's a dog eat dog world, like, you gotta stab some people in the back. It's you against everyone else. Like, don't make friends. Like you're here to make money versus people who were collaborative and trusted people. And it showed overwhelmingly so that the people who were trusting and not cynical were promoted more frequently, made more money, and overwhelmingly reported more job, job satisfaction. And that kind of logic absolutely carries through into other areas of life. And, and a core component of the takeaway from that of the researchers ran the study was the, the optimists. The people who were promoted more, made more and were happier. They made trust their default. Trust in other people, which is a vulnerable position to put you in yourself in, especially if you've been hurt before. But I think if we can find a way to embody some element of that trust in other people. Trust that if someone says they're going to do something, you believe them. Trust in yourself, trust in your path, trust in your timing, things like that. To me, yeah, it's delusional because it's not easy and the average person is trending cynical in this day.

Dan Buettner (19:01)

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Dan Buettner (21:14)

You know, you're striking a chord with us here. We just had Jillian Tureki on the Relationship rock star and she talks about in order to start a successful relationship, you have to trust in yourself. And then I kind of played off of that. When you look at the happiness in nations, the number one correlate, the number one predictor of a happy nation is not gdp. It's not necessarily equality though that's important. It's not necessarily healthy life expectancy though, that's also important. The number one correlate of a happy nation or happiness in nation is trust. Can you trust your leaders? Can you trust your police? And can you trust each other? And there's ways to measure that. But I mean you have, you, you have intuited another important truism. I'm going to ask a tough question here. You know, you have these thousands of, of pearls of, of wisdom in your books. That's bold of you. But how do you know you're not just pooling ignorance as opposed to harnessing wisdom?

Case Kenny (22:23)

Yeah, yeah. It's a question that I consider all the time in light of being somewhat public and sharing my thoughts. I mean, I generally only try to write from my experience, so I'm not, you know, projecting blind, you know, toxic positivity in any sense. You know, I, I tend to think of, you know, if I can think of a truth, an uplifting truth, and I can support it with experience backed, why then I'm, I'm doing my job. I think where we get into trouble is when we're just saying things that we don't have the why behind it. Like I, I like people ask me all the time, like case, do you really think that anyone can do whatever they want in their life? And like trying to back me into the corner and be like, obviously that's not true. And I'm like, I, I absolutely think anyone can do whatever they like, obviously within the nuance of reality. But I absolutely think you could do what you want. It might change and evolve over time, but if it's backed by a why, and you could sit down and say this is a firsthand belief, not a secondhand belief, certainly not a third hand belief, not a belief inherited by social media, then I think it's, it's always true and it's always helpful. I, There was a, a study, the Xerox experiment. Have you ever heard of it? But it was basically this social. Yes, you probably know her. Yeah, yeah, of course. The Xerox experiment, if you're familiar with it, was basically just like more within the context of like persuasion and other people. But I really took it as like a core element of the power of why. And it was basically where she wanted to see if she could cut people in line. Waiting for a Xerox machine and Xerox machine for young people, as you make copies of. Yeah, yeah, like a fax. Yeah, like, like a Snapchat, but for documents. But anyway, like there was a long line for the machine. And so she did a couple of things to see if people let her skip them to, to make a copy. And the first one she would just go up and say, hey, do you mind if I, if I skip you? And the power of persuasion, it was like, I feel, I think it was like 40% of people said, yeah, sure, no problem. So something interesting about just asking, getting what you want. But then she tried two additional ones, saying the first one was, hey, do you mind if I cut you in line to make some copies? I'm running late for something. And like 94% of people, 95% of people let her do it because she had a why. Running late, Interesting, some empathy. And then she did one more which was, hey, do you mind if I cut you in line? I need to make some copies. And the same amount, it was like 93% let her cut and. But obviously you have to make some copies. That's what you're there for. But it was just really interesting to me, the power of why, both in regard to persuasion but also in regards to ourself. Like if we can actually Vocalize a why behind something. And not a toxic why, not a blind belief why, but a why that's backed by some kind of experience. That's what keeps us going. And that's what I. That's what I try to do. So, like, a lot of my writing is, like, thing that's happened to you. Belief of something better connected by why that might be true. That's all. That's all I want to do. I want to help people feel seen and be a bit more optimistic. Use their experience to connect the dots, and then they'll figure out the specifics of it.

Dan Buettner (25:30)

Well, it convinces me, you know, the. The. The Buddha who's had some influence for a few millennia, he didn't have any evidence behind what he. You know, he. He was based on his personal experience and the why and the fact that his. His. His thoughts and his experience had resonated with people through the millennia. And obviously, your thoughts and. And rooted in the why are resonating with huge audiences, which is why I invited you. It's. There's something about what you're telling people that resonates on a very human level, and that's why, you know, 1.2 million people wait anxiously for your red pand.

Case Kenny (26:10)

Everyone's waiting. Well, I. I genuinely appreciate that, but I think a lot about that, too, in, like, context and like, the times we're in. It's like, as a author, as a creator or whatever, like, it's easy to agitate people. Right. It's easy to fire people up. Like, we rally around things that need change in life and radical inequalities, and that's great, of course, but it's easy in light of that to. To agitate people and rile people up and get their heart beating. To me, I see my mission as to, like, calm people down a little bit, which I think is a contrast to what is so, you know, prevalent online. And I think people just. People want a little bit of calm and certainty, not, like, ignoring the things that we need to rally around and change about ourselves and life and the world. But, like, I think there's space for that, and I think people crave it. Stability and calm when anything is. But. And if I can do that, then what an amazing privilege, of course, to do that.

Dan Buettner (27:09)

You're like an oasis of positivity and a.

Case Kenny (27:13)

In.

Dan Buettner (27:13)

In a. A feed that's just, you know, some politician barking at us or some terrible piece of economic news or some, you.

Case Kenny (27:20)

Know, another unprecedented time.

Dan Buettner (27:22)

Yeah. And that influences people. Yeah. You're. You're that negativity is infectious and, and you're the one putting positivity out there and reminding us that we can take control of our lives, giving us some tools on how to do it and, and talking from your heart on how it's worked for you. You talk a lot about mindfulness and you're a big advocate of social media or at least this idea of the digital reality of our lives. Do you think social media, do you think the sort of digital tsunami that rinses over our psyche every day, is that a net positive or a net negative?

Case Kenny (28:12)

That's beautiful wording. I. I think it's a net positive. I'm never one to like, boohoo. Social media, of course social media is going to come with a downside. Of course dating apps are going to come with a downside. Like all these digital things that have opened up the scale of life and inspiration. So we just have to be cognizant of that. Like, the downside of social media, of course, is young people taking it to heart and not realizing that a lot of it's untrue, subconsciously sliding into conformity. Like in that book I wrote a lot about conformity, the book he's talking.

Dan Buettner (28:44)

About, that's bold of you, which is Case's book here. So if you're not seeing us and only listening, that's beautiful.

Case Kenny (28:53)

Right?

Dan Buettner (28:54)

Right. Yes. You can't, you can't mix it.

Case Kenny (28:55)

But yeah, I think I just, like, I wrote it in, you know, conformity. I reference some experiments from a guy named Solomon ash in the 50s who was kind of a pioneer of studying and social science behind conformity. And, you know, it's basically like we conform for two reasons. The first is we don't want to be the odd person out. Understandable. The second is we think that other people know something we don't know because there's so many people doing something. Therefore we need to fall in line. Right. It's like, well, are all the sheep jumping off a bridge? We do right idea, very simple stuff. Like we know it to be true, but it's like we need to understand that in relation to what we're consuming and social media, and then we'll be fine and use social media. Social media's such a gift to connect with other people and being inspired. But if it becomes a habit that we can't control, if it's affecting you negatively, unfollow those people. Put it away the best of your ability. I think it's an amazing thing. I mean, I wouldn't Have a career without it, certainly. And it's a conduit for spreading all the things that I'm passionate about.

Dan Buettner (29:56)

One of the things you spread is the importance of mindfulness. And mindfulness requires attention. And it's well researched. Documents very well. The, the eroding of the attention span, largely because of social media.

Case Kenny (30:10)

Yeah.

Dan Buettner (30:11)

How do you reconcile those two? Like, how do you, how do you be mindful but, you know, get your information from.

Case Kenny (30:18)

Yeah, well, that's, I mean, I think as a entrepreneur and author and person who requires people's attention span. Like I write for short attention spans. Like, it's, I have to, it's the reality. That's why, like, most of my things are 12 words, 8 words, 14 words maybe. So like, I'm acutely aware of that. And you know, I wish, you know, I spend most of my long form yapping for the podcast or books or events that I run. But yeah, I mean, I think you have to write for reality. And the reality is most people aren't going to read past 10 words, so you got to hit them. And that's why it's like I, it takes me hours to write these quotes sometimes and it's 12 words. Yeah. But it's all about word choice.

Dan Buettner (30:58)

Don't underestimate the power and the difficulty of brevity. I think it was Mark Twain who said, I meant to write you a short note, but I didn't have time.

Case Kenny (31:07)

Yeah.

Dan Buettner (31:07)

In other words.

Case Kenny (31:08)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great.

Dan Buettner (31:10)

You know, very difficult, condensing emotion and a complex thought into 14 words.

Case Kenny (31:15)

And that was something that I learned in sales. Right. We could, I could sit down with a client and take them through an hour long pitch deck. Can you do it in 30 seconds? That was a sign of mastery. That was a sign of empathy. That was a sign of confidence that you didn't have to fill the space with extra words. So I, I always refer to, to sales in that capacity as something that, that really helped me in confidence. Like, can I, you know, it's when we doubt ourselves, that's when we start to just ramble. Right. Because what, what we said, we don't think it's good enough. So we, we try, want to hit it with all these supporting facts and different angles and I think, you know, resisting that urge and just standing on business, as the kids say, and leaving that on the table. That's what, that's what I try to do.

Podcast Host (Ad Read) (31:58)

I love that.

Case Kenny (31:59)

And it's crazy. People tattoo my quotes and they'll send me pictures and Stuff like that's.

Dan Buettner (32:03)

Well, what's a tattooable quote?

Case Kenny (32:06)

I'm trying to. The one that I remember someone sent me. I had a quote that I wrote. I just wrote that redirection is an upgrade. Like the idea of like, someone wrote.

Dan Buettner (32:14)

That redirection is an upgrade, but it's.

Case Kenny (32:17)

Humbling too, because it's not like they took it to a tattoo artist and the tattoo artist put it in a different font. They literally photoed photo transfixed my handwriting on their arm. So, like, stuff like that's crazy and humbling, but so cool. I mean, how cool is that?

Dan Buettner (32:32)

So I love it. Well, I'm tempted to tattoo. Keep being delusional until you succeed. There you go.

Case Kenny (32:39)

Let's. I'll write you something custom. We'll put it on one of those biceps.

Dan Buettner (32:44)

Yes. I love it, but I, I do, I do want to get back to mindfulness because it underpins so much of, of what you write about. How do we find mindfulness in our busy world?

Case Kenny (32:58)

Yeah. So mindfulness, again, was one of these umbrella terms that there's no wrong definition. However, people are mindful is their business, and it could be impactful in whatever way. To me, the way that I again define mindfulness is the art of listening to yourself and the art of talking to yourself. So for me, mindfulness is that self dialogue as clarified through a specific emotional vocabularies for the purpose of. And I think we even might have talked about it before when we were at. We were at a dinner party. This idea of ifs internal family systems, the ability to separate one's self from their emotions. That's what mindfulness helps you do. Right. So it's the difference between sitting in an emotion like anxiety and saying, man, man am I anxious versus man. A part of me feels anxious today. Totally different energies, totally different strategies. And that's referred to as internal family systems. The idea that your mind and your essence is composed of many different parts. Of course, you have the self, which is like the compassionate, wise, honest, capable, delusionally optimistic self. And then you have your parts. The parts are likely parts from your past that are trying to negotiate and navigate the present. A lot of them are, are self sabotaging in some capacity, but they're trying to protect you. It's our job to restore harmony between those parts. Mindfulness through the lens of language, in the form of how we speak to ourselves, is everything. And it's very specific and very small. But really, all I advocate for is instead of saying, I am emotion, it's a part of me feels that emotion. And with that as a starting point for navigating emotions, everything that follows is so much simpler. Separating the, the emotion from the wholeness of your identity. I did a. I led a workshop in LA a couple weeks ago with Mattel, the children's toy and games creator. It was all about connecting with your nerd child. Yes. And we played Uno and I rewrote Uno for them and it was, it was fun. But the whole idea was like, what's the difference between children and adults when it comes to emotions? Many things. But the key one that I honed in on was permanence. Kids can have a bad day and they can feel sad and they can verbalize that in some poor capacity, but the next day they wake up and they're not a sad person. It was a fleeting moment. Adults, permanence. And especially with the way that we describe it, it's. I am, I am sad. I am a sad person. And then we have more evidence to support. And even if we're not objectively saying that over and over subconsciously, that's what we are. So the whole idea with mindfulness as a form of listening to yourself, talking to yourself is how can we use better language and how can we separate the emotion from the whole as a starting point? And everything from that becomes so much simpler and is indeed the path to optimism. For me, optimism is just the belief that things can change. Right. I'm not gonna butterflies and rainbows, people and say everything's gonna be fine. I don't know if it's gonna be fine. I hope it is. But things can change. The way that we actually live a reality where we truly believe that things can't change is how we describe our emotions. I am anxious versus a part of me feels anxious. The latter allows for that change.

Dan Buettner (36:08)

I'm buying everything you lay down. But where my mind goes is I imagine a 22 year old high school graduate in a convenience store gas station in Iowa who's feeling lost, who's feeling a little bit dead end. What do you say? Remember a 22 year old with a high school education?

Case Kenny (36:31)

Yeah.

Dan Buettner (36:32)

What do you say to that? That young man that helps him get up and out of his situation.

Case Kenny (36:41)

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I, I think it's a measure of practicality and specifically pretend I'm.

Dan Buettner (36:46)

Pretend I'm the 22 year old, pretend it's me. And I say, case, yeah. I've been following your Instagram. I love it, but I'm stuck. Yeah, I'm gonna work at a Gas station, work eight hours a day. I go home to a house I don't really like that much. I don't. I don't know how to get out of it.

Case Kenny (37:01)

Well, I'd say the first thing. Friend from Iowa. I would say, you say you're stuck. Stuck implies that there's two spaces. There's where you are and where you want to go. Tell me about where you want to go. I want you to write it down. I want you to list it out. So we would have that type of conversation first and foremost, because I found a lot of people don't actually put words or they have an idea. Right. I want to have money, and I want to be surrounded by good people. Good starting.

Dan Buettner (37:28)

I want to go someplace warm, and I. I want to have a job that pays me more than minimum wage.

Case Kenny (37:33)

Yeah. I mean, and I want to meet a girl. As an entrepreneur, I mean, I could ditch the mindfulness and we could talk all day about, like, okay, so what. Tell me about your current job. What's the gap between your income and your financial standing and what you need. How much do you need to save to get to that place? What would it cost to move? What would it cost to rent? All those kinds of things. I, you know, and I'm a very practical guy. I would. I love having that type of conversation. I've just found that most people are sitting in a space of feeling stuck because they haven't described the two different realities. They don't have the words to describe the reality that they want. They want. They just know that they feel stuck.

Dan Buettner (38:08)

Yeah.

Case Kenny (38:08)

Yeah.

Dan Buettner (38:08)

And they like to about where they are rather than say, okay, this is what it could be. And here's what it looks like, to.

Case Kenny (38:15)

The point about cynics. Most people would rather complain and have a negative view than to do something. And I understand there's precluding factors, but, you know, the ability to actually vocalize some of those things I think is really, really important. Journaling, for instance, is a great way to move you in that direction, to actually sit down and be honest with yourself. Like, that's the biggest thing. Like, and I know it's like a simple cliche thing, but I think the most powerful question you could ever ask yourself is, am I being honest with myself? Like, truly?

Dan Buettner (38:43)

Oh, that's a tough one.

Case Kenny (38:44)

I feel like, first of all, yeah, there's a lot there, like, what is my truth? Is it my truth? Is it borrowed? Is it a firsthand truth? Secondhand, that kind of thing. But I feel like that's not usually the question we ask ourselves. Usually the question we ask ourselves is, am I happy? How can I be happier? Well, that's a little problematic if we haven't defined what happiness is and then worked backwards in the moment. So I like, if anyone ever asked me, like, case, like, what do you want out of life? Usually it's some variation of, I want to be proud of myself. And I always just want to be honest with myself, because from honesty is going to come the right decision. The wrong decision comes from a lack of honesty or a lack of clarity or, you know, some kind of fear. Right. So starting there, I think, is more important than like a next step conversation, because I think that'll come fluidly from that. That type of conversation.

Dan Buettner (39:38)

You speak a lot in the sort of poetic and ethereal, but the, The. The books you publish actually give people how to do it. I love that because so few experts like you think through the practical application. And you have this great workbook. It says, hello, I'm unbothered, Unbothered, unbothered. And I think that's a great sort of truth to tell yourself. But you go day by day, and I want to read some of the exercises you give people, and I'd love for you to tell us quickly where they come from and while they're important. So the first thing, you have a little box for us to journal. What's on my mind? Don't overthink it. Literally, just write whatever is on your mind right now. Why that?

Case Kenny (40:28)

It's a calibrating exercise, right? Let's just get into the space where we're being honest, and then from there, let's dissect it.

Dan Buettner (40:35)

Then you ask, how unbothered am I today? It's on a scale of 1 to 10. Unbothered. It's an adjective, A mix of peaceful acceptance and eagerness to roll with the punches of life. So why. Why are you having people taking this.

Case Kenny (40:50)

Self assessment every day more calibrating. So, like, those. Each day is like a couple calibrations and then a deeper exercise. You know, I. I approach introspection, like working out. Like, I'm not gonna roll up to a bench press and put on £200 and just start repping. I'm gonna hurt myself. It's more of like, let's get into the flow. It's. Let's start to feel something.

Dan Buettner (41:08)

Wait, you bent £200? I could.

Case Kenny (41:11)

I. I'm capable.

Dan Buettner (41:12)

Holy. I'm capable.

Case Kenny (41:14)

I used to. I used to be really into into lifting, but go for walks now. You know.

Dan Buettner (41:21)

Okay, so then I think you get a little deeper right then.

Case Kenny (41:24)

Yeah.

Dan Buettner (41:24)

With this. Where's my head right now? Circle your answer and then answer the respective question. And one of them is past. In the past, what opened my eyes? In the past?

Case Kenny (41:37)

Yes.

Dan Buettner (41:37)

Present, yes. What am I grateful for today?

Case Kenny (41:40)

Yes.

Dan Buettner (41:40)

In the future, what do I deserve? What's the etymology? What's the origin of those?

Case Kenny (41:46)

Well, it's basically so that idea is like, okay, so we're calibrating, we're understanding how I feel, gut reaction, how unbothered am I feeling by life's various pieces of bs. And then the final I was like, where do I feel most of my thoughts originating from? And focusing on something in the past, overwhelmed by the present or perhaps worried about the future. And then whichever one we choose the prompt, there is kind of a contrast to that. So if we're worried about the present, let's do some gratitude. If we're worried about the future, let's, let's plan something. Like it's, it's the contrast to the way that if we're just obsessed with the, you know, inevitable insecurity of past, present and future, we could contrast it with something, something helpful is the idea.

Dan Buettner (42:28)

You know, the Buddhists are big believers that you want to be in the present, you want to experience the here and now because everything else is fiction. And what I like about these past, present and future, exercise for the past. You asked what opened my eyes, suggesting how does what happened in the past make the present clearer for me? The present, what am I grateful for? So right now, what is the world delivering me that I might be overlooking and taking for granted in the future, what do I deserve? Suggesting that you can visualize a life, that you, it can be yours. But today is the day to start working on it. So it's all kind of different versions of the present.

Case Kenny (43:13)

I'm somewhat of a one trick pony when it comes to it. That's all about presence and it's all about optimism. Right. Whether it's.

Dan Buettner (43:18)

But you tricked us into thinking it's.

Case Kenny (43:20)

Multi time got you good there. But no but it's like it is that idea of looking to the past for something that could fuel your present. You learn from it. Looking to the present to feel grateful for something, look into the future to remind yourself of what you deserve. Like I'm a, like a big proponent of journaling from the, the context of contrast. A lot of journaling I've found is a lot of like, hey, write down, write down some to do lists, write down 10 times that you're worthy of something. I think that's very valuable. A lot of the prompts and I run these events where we do guided reflection, where it's all about taking something frustrating from the past, bringing it into the present, and finding gratitude from it. Like, true gratitude. Like, when you actually feel gratitude, it has to be a mind and body thing. Like, I want to feel it, to sit down in the morning and just write. I'm grateful for my health, my friends, and the opportunity to do this podcast. While all very true and valid, I don't. I don't feel the true gratitude. Like, so for me, it's like true gratitude. You have to take past pain, bring it into the present, and realize that you're lighter because of it. That's an amazing. Like Eileen on Thich Nhat Han's writing about a non toothache, which, yeah, is amazing stuff. When he talks about how, you know, when we have a toothache, we know that it's really painful, but when we don't have a toothache, we're not grateful because we've just moved on to the next thing. So to be grateful is go back in time to that thing that I experienced, that too, and experience it again in the present and then be like, open your eyes and be like, oh, I don't have it.

Dan Buettner (44:55)

I'm so damn glad. My tooth.

Case Kenny (44:56)

But you could do that for anything. It's like if you were sick or you hurt your ankle and you're a runner and now you. Now you can run just like I really do. Encourage people to. To try to do exercises like that. Go to the past, Find something that you learn, find something that you overcame, find something that you evolved through bringing into the present, ground yourself, and then use that to. To supply the future. Yeah.

Dan Buettner (45:17)

You know, one of the things that give me great hope in the emerging generation. I've seen videos of you sitting up on a stage in front of a packed auditorium of people who are sitting there writing intentions.

Case Kenny (45:30)

Yeah.

Dan Buettner (45:31)

Like, you know, you're. Like you're Mick Jagger instead of them, you know, screaming like idiots.

Case Kenny (45:35)

Real rock star. Yeah.

Dan Buettner (45:36)

Yeah. There you actually have people doing the introspection, writing these things. When you're in front of these, when you do your public appearances, these audiences, what is the one question that you ask these auditoriums to write or the one exercise you have them to do that seems to get the biggest response or the biggest return, so to speak?

Case Kenny (46:02)

Yeah, well, yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I formulate them similar to that. Like we start with a how do I feel calibrating? And then the final question is usually around, like, I feel this way, negative way, but. And then everyone leaves with like a mantra. I call these sessions mantra. So they leave with something that they hand wrote and that ties everything together. So most of the problems for them, that's like, I'm not, I don't know the answers truly, but I know some prompts that can help draw the answers out of you. It's so cool to see people leave with their own. They wrote it, they could tattoo it if they want. They could write it on social media if they want to. But those are always the most rewarding. And I would say, like, those events are really cool because I've done them for so many groups of people. I do them for the NFL, grown men who hit each other for a living. I do them for makeup and moisturizer brands. Of all women who are there to think about skincare, they get the same value out of it. And that's not a testament to me. It's not about, like, how I deliver it. It truly is. You know, if you open yourself up to, like, that kind of vulnerability and you're eager to change the way you speak to yourself, you're going to get value from it. And the fact that like, both of those groups of people do it and I've done them at nightclubs, I did one at a club here called Space. Like, those people love it. Like, anyway, I just, I just think it's very universal and it always inspires me that, like, sometimes, like, is this cheesy, is this sappy, is this too sensitive? It's for some people, sure. But for someone who really wants to open their heart to being kinder to themselves and being more optimistic, it's like it hits the mark every single time because they are uncovering the truth. I'm not uncovering it. And I think that's just like, it's such a gift to be able to help, you know, do that.

Dan Buettner (47:44)

You draw it out of the truth, but just interstitially. I want to tell our listeners, our viewers, it's great story by yourself. So the hottest club in Miami is called Space. You know, you know, people have been known to come in there and maybe, or maybe not take hallucinogens and, and Molly and dance all night. You told, I don't know if you remember this, you told me you and your wife would go to bed at 10 o' clock on a Saturday night and you'd wake up Sunday morning and you have A cappuccino, and you go to space at six in the morning and dance until noon. And everybody else, of course, has been there for eight hours or something. You're like, fresh as can be, and you rip it up the dance floor and you're on nothing more than life.

Case Kenny (48:28)

And truly, I mean, that sounds unhinged if you're. If you don't know the club in Miami, but it's like a somewhat fairly normal thing to do. Like, we'll go, we'll have a coffee there, then we'll go to the farmer's market and we'll go do our taxes. Like that's the order.

Dan Buettner (48:47)

You weren't original, but I. I think I.

Case Kenny (48:51)

But you know, you know, as much as that's like, that is funny kind of from an outside perspective, I think music is like so powerful when it comes to mindfulness and happiness. And of course, we know this is obvious stuff, but like any. Anything I've ever written, I'm always listening to house music, upbeat dance music. I am all about the structure of dance music, which is break, build, drop. Break, build, drop. It's got this euphoric cadence to it that, to me, it just draws emotions out of me. It literally, it is like a vulnerability switch. So I'd really encourage people, like, if you're like, case, like, you're speaking in a lot of poetry and you're talking about worth and like, I just don't get it. Understandable. I would take a prompt that I've written or just try your sit down, put on some house music, different genres of house. There's progressive house and Afro house and different EDM genres. Find one that draws it out, because it really does.

Dan Buettner (49:42)

Yeah.

Case Kenny (49:42)

And I. I don't really know how to explain it, but like, sometimes, like, that's important, like context, environment. Sometimes just that, that final thing that all of a sudden you're like, ooh, I feel something. So I. As a tidbit of practicality for people, if they can't relate to some of this, I would recommend that. And also find your zone of creativity. Like, for me, I really do most of my work between like 10 and 1, and that's like between coffee one and coffee two with house music. And then pretty much after that, I've kind of lost my sauce. So, like, know yourself. Like, if you try to sit down at the end of a long day and you're trying to journal and choose the right words.

Podcast Host (Ad Read) (50:17)

Yeah.

Case Kenny (50:17)

Might be pretty difficult. So try, Try it. When you're in your optimal zone for vulnerability, you Know, eagerness to do the thing. And I think you'll find it easier and you won't be turned off by it because you've got, you know, outside chaos and.

Dan Buettner (50:30)

Try some house music.

Case Kenny (50:31)

Try, try some house music. I, I work with DJs, like, we do these sets on the, on the podcast sometimes where they'll play a 60 minute set and in the interludes I'll basically kind of do what I just did with some of this stuff. It's, it's, it's cool to see the way that, you know, not everyone responds well to silent meditation. Some people want a little bit more, you know, catalyst and creativity. So I try to, I try to be that guy.

Dan Buettner (50:57)

So there's a. Another generation. William Burroughs, the great beat poet, wrote Naked Lunch. But he, he, he. I think he's probably the first one to read poetry to house music. And the name of the. I was just googling it. The name of the album is Spare Ass Annie. And if you love the genre, I can't recommend it.

Case Kenny (51:22)

Provocative. Love it. I'll have to check it out. Yeah, I'm sure I'm not original or first there, but you may be original.

Dan Buettner (51:28)

In a new generation. You know, one of the things that, the sort of daily exercises you have people doing, which I really like, and I think it's, it resonates with me and I attribute much of my success to it, is the one big thing I want to manifest. Big.

Case Kenny (51:45)

Yeah.

Dan Buettner (51:46)

And you know, I come from the Midwest, which is, you know, I love it, Minnesota, but it's, you know, land, bad hair, sensible shoals and sort of apologetic people who, you know, just don't want to make waves and the tall tree gets chopped down, et cetera. And I had a experience with George Plimpton. I it was editor of the Paris Review. He wrote several New York Times bestsellers. He's the first participatory journalist in New York City. He taught me how to think big. I was thinking about doing a bike ride when I was 22 years old and he said, well, why don't you set a world record? And I'm like, oh, okay, that's great. And that little thing, that one big thing I want to manifest. I want to set a world record for bicycling. And I can see this ride from Alaska to Argentina, the top of North America to the bottom of South America. And I went and did it. And you know what? It was no harder than doing another big ride. I just thought big and then biked around the world and well, wait, you can't get around the world because there's this little tiny thing called the Soviet Union where they don't let Americans. And I kept at it like terrier on a pant leg. And I hold the world record for biking around the world through the Soviet Union.

Case Kenny (53:00)

Wow.

Dan Buettner (53:01)

And. And then bike across Africa, hold the record for biking top of the bottom. And this is all the manifestation of a big idea. And then breaking the big idea down into doable segments, all of which were pretty, pretty easy. And I just think this. Of all these exercises in your very good book. Hello, I'm unbothered. The one big thing you want to manifest, you should. That should be written down.

Case Kenny (53:30)

Yeah.

Dan Buettner (53:31)

And, you know, I'd even tear it off and I put it on my mirror and look at it every day.

Case Kenny (53:35)

Well, yeah, I appreciate that. That sounds like light work for you. Those. Those. That's incredible. Congrats to you. I like. It's funny, I hesitated at first to use the word manifest. Right. Because manifest as manifesting, manifestation has become this thing where, you know, it's, you know, a nod to the secret and the power of visualization, which I do not deny in any capacity. As a former somewhat skeptic of, like, wellness. In my 20s, I always used to think, like manifest was such a hokey term, but I used it specifically there. And there's other prompts in the book and in the journal. And I think in that's. Both of you talked about what manifest really means. And I have people write that down to describe the reality they want to live. So the reality is I want to set a world record for this, or I want to be a New York Times bestselling author for this, or I want to find this job, whatever. Write that down. And then we go back to the way that we've been talking to ourselves. Because the whole idea with manifesting is I don't have a great definition of manifesting like some people do. Like, get in alignment with your vibrations and create the abundance that you deserve. I don't know what kind of thing that means. All I know is that manifesting is bringing two things together. The things you tell yourself and the reality you say you want to live. And I've just found the majority of people are telling themselves two opposing things. In that case, they'll be telling themselves that I'm unlovable, but I want to find my soulmate. Those two things can't logically happen, can't coexist, and it's such a simple thing. So the job then becomes through journaling through mindfulness of bridging that gap to make sure that what we tell ourselves supports the reality we want to live. And it's that simple. And so it all. It's all connected. Right. So we're talking in the beginning about the language we use to describe ourselves. That one writing, the one big thing we want to manifest down. The conversation I would have with Mr. Stuck in Iowa guy about, you're stuck, but what are you stuck between? What is that thing? What is the thing you want to manifest? Then we go back to what we're telling ourselves, and we're just making sure that that is fluid, that the logic supports both. And then we'll let the universe manifest or align or abundance or whatever it may be. But at least we're using language intuitively and logically that supports both of them. So that's the idea with that.

Dan Buettner (55:41)

I love it. I. I want to leave the listeners and the viewers with three top tips. The first one, that's just the top tip for finding mindfulness every day.

Case Kenny (55:53)

In this day and age, making mindfulness every day. I mean, it's. It's more or less making a moment to be honest with yourself. Like, I think so much of our. Of our day is on autopilot. It's doing things as expectations. It's rushing. So it's a moment of unrushed honesty. And that could be in the format.

Dan Buettner (56:10)

Of you schedule it. Is it the same time every day?

Case Kenny (56:12)

I do, just because I have the privilege of working for myself. But I would say in whatever capacity you can, whether it's on your way to work or after work or even on your lunch break, like, can you just find a moment where you truly are unrushed and you're honest? And there's many prompts, of course, that you could maybe ask yourself how I'm feeling, but I would just focus on those two words. And that's a mindful moment, and it's incredibly valuable. Unrushed honesty. Yeah.

Dan Buettner (56:36)

Number two, top tip for unlocking your potential. You talk about superpowers. We all have superpowers.

Case Kenny (56:43)

Yeah.

Dan Buettner (56:43)

How do you unlock them?

Case Kenny (56:46)

Well, for. For lack of a poetry, you just. You do them as often as you can. For so long, I resisted doing events and public things, and now I think it's my superpower. I think this is what I'm meant to do. And I resisted it because I was nervous and I was insecure and I had imposter syndrome. The only way to unlock it is to do it. And also, I would say, is to every Superpower comes with a downside, right? So if you are empathetic, it's going to be taken advantage of. If you're super intense and outgoing, some people are going to make fun of you. If you're a writer who shares his feelings online, people are going to say you're too sensitive. It's always going to come with the downside. Do not let that downside remove the power of your superpower. So just be cognizant of that. Just because there's resistance on top of it does not mean you shouldn't lean into it. So do it. Do it as often as you can. And you just create evidence. And evidence is what creates confidence. Evidence is what creates momentum. All the things that you are deserving of having. So for lack of poetry, you just do it.

Dan Buettner (57:47)

And the top one, top tip for laying the groundwork for a long, fulfilling life.

Case Kenny (57:56)

Long fulfilling life. Well, so I don't repeat myself, I would go back to who you surround yourself with. I mean, I think it's a beautiful topic. All the research supports, like your health and longevity past 50 and into 60, is the power of your relationships, both at the intimate partner level, but as well as your friends. I mean, I've learned a thing or two here living in Miami of like, who is right for me and who is wrong for me.

Dan Buettner (58:18)

It's land of sunshine and shady people.

Case Kenny (58:21)

It's somewhat glaring down here. It's. But yeah, you. You learn through experience and, you know, it's. It's okay to be alone sometimes. I wouldn't just surround yourself with people just to have people, but lean into the right people. I always say that your passion, your superpower, your weirdness is a filter for the wrong people, and it's a magnet for the right.

Dan Buettner (58:43)

I like that.

Case Kenny (58:43)

So. So if it drives.

Dan Buettner (58:45)

Proud of that.

Case Kenny (58:45)

Yeah, I repeat that a lot. If it drives the wrong people off, that served one purpose. It filtered the wrong people. I believe, because I've seen it time and time again, it will also magnetize the right people. And that takes patience sometimes. But again, if it's your superpower, if it's the thing that brings you joy and allows for you to create in life, see it as a magnet, and eventually it's a magnet. I wrote the other day, it's like a spark. Keep tossing sparks, eventually something's going to catch fire.

Dan Buettner (59:13)

I love it.

Case Kenny (59:14)

I'm trying to think of more. What clever things can I say? But yes, that's. That would be my answer.

Dan Buettner (59:18)

You know, the. In one of the blues on Sardinia, there's about 20 times more poets than there is in the average population the world needs poet.

Case Kenny (59:28)

That's so cool.

Dan Buettner (59:29)

And I think you're one of our modern day poets, philosophers and you step into the realm of helping people live better lives with that poetry. And I just want to salute you for what you do.

Case Kenny (59:40)

Thank you.

Dan Buettner (59:40)

Thank you for sharing your wisdom and your poetry. And in closing, Case has written a special famous one of his pearls of wisdom and poetry.

Case Kenny (59:56)

Well, we talked about it earlier about the idea of redirection, but I wrote this just to say a secret to happiness is to have so much love for yourself that any redirection in life feels like an upgrade. Right. So just the idea of belief in yourself and love for yourself that when life does throw you curveballs, you see it as okay, this is leading me to somewhere valuable table. It's filtering out wrongness and it's magnetizing rightness. So again, just the belief but consummately blue zones.

Dan Buettner (60:24)

And I, I feel, you know, that's going to be in the Smithsonian someday. It's a, it's, it's a, it's a.

Case Kenny (60:31)

Case candy yours to keep even you could cross out hat a secret to longevity is.

Dan Buettner (60:36)

I'm gonna keep, I'm gonna keep it original. I'm gonna make you sign it for me though. How do we get a hold of you? How do listeners, how do you want us to interact with you and how, how do we find out about your books and.

Case Kenny (60:46)

Well, thank you. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Genuinely. I love, I love chatting with you always. Instagram is case.kenny. casekenny.com has all my new books. I have a new book coming out in August of this year, so I'll probably already be out when this airs. It's called the opposite of Settling. It's a lot about love and relationships and sense of self and building a life you love so that love can find you there again, the idea of magnetizing. So yeah, all those things and to.

Dan Buettner (61:12)

You to study up for that month. Remember to order. That's a bold of you by Case Kennedy. How to thr your most vibrant, weird and real self. I like that. And then putting these ideas to work in your real life rather than just reading them and saying, well, that was nice to actually exercises over the course. I think about three months here. Hello, I'm unbothered. A toolbox for actually bringing these concepts to life and putting them in work in your life. Case, I can't thank you enough. I'm proud to have you as a fellow Miami resident and a friend. And here's to. Here's to more poetry and manifesting the good life.

Case Kenny (61:51)

Absolutely. Thanks so much, Dan. Appreciate it.

Dan Buettner (61:54)

Thank you.