Pablo Torre, Kawhi Leonard, And The Clippers' Daktronics Scandal | Hour 1

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dan Le Batard Show — Pablo Torre, Kawhi Leonard, and The Clippers' Daktronics Scandal | Hour 1

Date: August 7, 2026
Location: Live from Elser Hotel, Downtown Miami

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Overview

In this episode, Dan Le Batard and his crew take a deep dive into the swirling controversy around Kawhi Leonard, the Los Angeles Clippers, and the so-called Daktronics scandal, with guest Pablo Torre unpacking a complex web of secret endorsement deals, salary cap circumvention, and power dynamics at the highest levels of professional sports. The first hour also features the show's trademark blend of sports banter, pop culture references, and clever wordplay.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Football Preseason Banter & Sports Media Satire

(02:15–07:56)

• The crew opens with lively preseason football talk, specifically marveling at Haynes King and Carson Beck’s unexpected heroics (“King of the night!”), while lampooning the tendency for fans and analysts to overreact to preseason performances.
• Quote:
  • “College is the only place where a Haynes King can not only exist, but thrive and be one of the greatest players in your program’s history.” – Tashay (04:44)
• They remind listeners that flashy preseason performances often turn out to be mirages.
• Discussion of how sports media, including themselves, get manipulated by “bad beats,” overhyped prospects, and narratives crafted during meaningless games.

2. Mike Tomlin’s Transition from Coaching to Broadcasting

(09:14–13:07)

• Mike Tomlin is scrutinized for the subtle linguistic shift from saying “we” to “they” about the Steelers, prompting a humorous riff on sports identity and detachment.
• The team explores the peculiarities and meanings of sports jargon like “bust” and “washed,” leading to a wordplay digression.
• Quote:
  • “If you’re the best, you get a bust. But also if you’re one of the very worst, you’re a bust. Bust is our rangiest word.” – Mike Ryan (12:11)

3. The Many Meanings of ‘Bust’

(13:07–15:05)

• An extended comedic meditation on the word “bust,” exploring its uses in sports (a failed draft pick), art (a statue), law enforcement, and slang.
• Quote:
  • “Busting makes me feel good.” – Pablo Torre, referencing Ghostbusters (19:20)
  • “Bust—it's boobs, first and foremost.” – Tashay (14:16)

4. Pablo Torre on the Daktronics Scandal and Clippers’ Salary Cap Circumvention

(19:02–51:11)

a. Unpacking the Daktronics Scandal

• Pablo Torre joins to elaborate on his reporting that ties Kawhi Leonard’s secret endorsement with the scoreboard giant Daktronics, despite Daktronics being a B2B company with no prior endorsements of any kind.
• Quote:
  • “Daktronics becomes the worldwide leader in Jumbotrons...on the back of this $100 million Halo board build out in the Intuit Dome... they were absolutely worried about their ability to exist as a company. And so the question of, like, what kind of influence did the Clippers have over Daktronics at the time in the year 2023?” – Pablo Torre (22:49)
• Analysis shows the Clippers, especially Steve Ballmer, possibly “saving” Daktronics, raising serious questions about outside-the-cap compensation for Leonard.

b. Kawhi Leonard’s Secret Endorsements & NBA Integrity

• The similarities to the earlier “Aspiration” deals orchestrated by the Clippers for Kawhi are highlighted—a pattern of unpublicized, multimillion-dollar contracts with team partners.
• Quote:
  • “This is a company that has zero endorsers of any kind on the record ever... and so the idea that they would break precedent by signing Kawhi Leonard secretly to a deal... sounds a lot like aspiration in terms of a template.” – Pablo Torre (25:04)
• These secret deals, and their apparent concealment from fans and the league, undermine salary cap integrity and raise the possibility of widespread circumvention.

c. NBA, Adam Silver, and a Pattern of Rule-Breaking

• Discussion moves toward the NBA’s (and Commissioner Adam Silver’s) responsibility, referencing previous occasions where similar “side deals” led to fines and league investigations.
• Quote:
  • “You create the largest salary cap circumvention scheme that's ever existed in professional sports.” – Pablo Torre (29:18)
• The reporting quotes frustrated Clippers executives: “How many bleeping side deals have we made with Kawhi?” (28:29)

d. League-Wide Implications: Fan Trust, Union Concerns, and Owner Power Gaps

• Pablo emphasizes that the real threat is to fan confidence in the integrity of the sport, with broader implications for player unions and rank-and-file athletes who see only select stars benefiting from rule-bending.
• Quote:
  • “If you give on a violation this flagrant, what you’re doing is you’re losing the ability to credibly claim that you care about these rules in general.” – Pablo Torre (39:58)
• Highlighting the disparities between ultra-wealthy owners (like Ballmer and institutional capital in MLB), the hosts and Pablo suggest the rising cost of franchises is exacerbating inequalities—and testing the very mechanisms that are supposed to ensure fairness within sports leagues.

e. Is This Problem Unique to the Clippers?

• Mike Ryan asks if this is a leaguewide ‘open secret.’ Pablo’s answer, while careful not to speculate too far, suggests reporting indicates it’s a widespread and dangerous issue, not just isolated to the Clippers.
• Quote:
  • “I think it’s worse than people in the public realize... There’s an integrity of the game concern here... That's what's been astonishing. People feel like they're not being told the truth.” – Pablo Torre (31:19)

f. Parallels with Other Leagues & Broader Power Dynamics

• Contrasts are drawn between Major League Baseball's open capitalism (with the Dodgers assembling super teams within the rules) and the NBA’s supposed “cardinal rule” of salary cap sanctity, now under threat.
• Quote:
  • “This is not the wealth gap between average citizen and billionaire—it’s normal billionaire versus the richest people who can afford these teams now.” – Pablo Torre (48:17)

5. The Union Perspective

(38:06–40:51)

• Pablo references DeMaurice Smith’s perspective that player unions should be concerned not just for fairness among players, but also about ownership violating collectively bargained rules, as it undermines the union’s credibility and leverage.

6. The Investigation and NBA’s Response

(41:09–44:13)

• Torre reveals Daktronics’ response to his investigation—referring questions to their general counsel and crisis PR, and specifically invoking the NBA’s Wachtel Lipton probe—suggests the company knew the scandal might have league consequences even before reporters called.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Pablo Torre (19:20): “Busting makes me feel good.”
• Mike Ryan (12:11): “Bust is our rangiest word.”
• Dave Demachek (29:18): “You create the largest salary cap circumvention scheme that's ever existed in professional sports.”
• Pablo Torre (39:58): “If you give on a violation this flagrant, what you’re doing is you’re losing the ability to credibly claim that you care about these rules in general.”
• Pablo Torre (48:17): “This is not the wealth gap between average citizen and billionaire—it’s normal billionaire versus the richest people who can afford these teams now.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Topic | Timestamps | |---------|-------|------------| | Preseason Football Banter & King/Beck Discussion | 02:15–07:56 | | Mike Tomlin 'We' vs. 'They', Language in Sports | 09:14–13:07 | | Playful Digression into ‘Bust’ | 13:07–15:05 | | Pablo Torre on Daktronics/Clippers Scandal | 19:02–51:11 | | Union Perspective & CBA Enforcement | 38:06–40:51 | | Daktronics’ Shaky Response & NBA Probe | 41:09–44:13 | | Comparisons MLB/NBA Owners & Future of Sports Ownership | 45:48–48:53 |

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Conclusion

This episode blends the Dan Le Batard Show’s irreverent humor and media savvy with a genuinely consequential piece of investigative journalism. Through Pablo Torre’s reporting, listeners get a clear-eyed look at how power, secrecy, and questionable deals at the very top of sport threaten competitive integrity. The show’s ability to balance humor with critical analysis makes the episode a must-listen for anyone interested in the intersection of business, fandom, and the future of sports.

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Next Up:
Stay tuned as the show promises more coverage on this evolving scandal and the broader landscape of power and transparency in sports.

Transcript

[Dan Le Batard]

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[PJ]

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Kill or be killed.

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Jacob Elordi There are people out there. They need our help. Josh Broland.

[Dave Demachek]

Shoot first and inquire afterwards.

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[Tashay]

You are listening to the Dan Levatar

[Mike Ryan]

show in partnership with the DraftKings sports app. Now live in all 50 states,

[Jeremy]

This

[Dan Le Batard]

episode of the Dan Lebatard show is presented by DraftKings Sports. DraftKings. The Crown is yours.

[Mike Ryan]

It's the footballiest time of the year. Football season is essentially upon us. Carson Beck. A good debut. Preseason though it was. Mike Ryan. I'm sensing some enthusiasm as somebody who enjoyed rooting for Carson Beck last year at the U.

[Tashay]

Right now, the meter points. He's a Miami hurricane you know, another interception, an interception or two, it swings back to Georgia Bulldog. But last night. That's a proper Miami Hurricane. Honestly, though, the. The main takeaway and how good is it to have a bad beat? Oh, I had a bad beat.

[Mike Ryan]

I had. What are you doing, man?

[Tashay]

What am I doing? What I'm doing is expressing confidence in Carson Beck. What I'm doing is putting my money where my mouth is. And he was fine.

[Mike Ryan]

Haynes King haters.

[Tashay]

Well, one thing, one thing that I should have certainly not done and learned from history is betting against Haynes King. You know, and he just. He did it again. This guy's. He's magical. He's not good, but he's awesome. I don't understand it. He's just such a gamer, isn't it?

[Mike Ryan]

They always mention that he's a coach's son. It's like, why didn't his dad ever coach him to throw football and look like a normal person throwing it? And he's still reached this lofty perch as a preseason QB without looking normal throwing a ball.

[Tashay]

Whenever.

[Dave Demachek]

Whoa, whoa.

[Tashay]

Excuse me. Whenever I watch, I get emotional watching Haynes Gang.

[Mike Ryan]

When.

[Tashay]

Whenever watch Haynes King in college, I point to it and I'm like, this is my Bill Simmons. I point to Haynes King and I'm like, that's why college football is so awesome. Quarterbacks like that don't exist in the NFL. College is the only place where a Haynes King can not only exist, but thrive and be one of the greatest players in your program's history. So to see him do it. I know it's preseason and I know it's certainly against a team that not many people are expecting much from, and it's all backups, but it was really awesome to see Haynes King do that in a pro uniform. And I'm not the only one that thought that. Dave Damek. Here is the final call from last night's thrilling hall of fame game from two 10 pole franchises in the NFL, the Carolina Panthers and Arizona Cardinals. Don't believe me? Ask Mike Tirico.

[Commercial Announcer]

Game on the line, King. He's going to step up. Pumps, runs goal line. Does he in? Yes. Carolina wins. Gaines King. King of the night.

[Dave Demachek]

Look at him.

[Commercial Announcer]

Whole teams out there mobbing them.

[Mike Ryan]

It's party time in Canton, Ohio.

[Tashay]

The smile that was on your face when Collinsworth just decided to chime in there, that's football, buddy.

[Mike Ryan]

I. I've always told younger fellows, as a great coxman, I've always said, listen, what you do on a first date, you don't go somewhere super Fancy. Don't take. Because first of all, standard too high. Well, you're also, yeah, you'll both be stiff and, and all of that, but also, where do you go from there? And where's Tirico and Collinsworth Booth going from here? Wait till the games start to matter. A cool matchup too, because neither of the quarterbacks when Beck and King were in the ACC QB showdown out there in Canton, Ohio, neither one of them possesses a real first name. You know, Josh Allen has two first names and then there are other guys who have no first names. You know, would you rather be Beck, Carson King, Haynes? I think I'd rather be King Haynes.

[Tashay]

It's a great take, Dave. And also they ran it back. When those two quarterbacks play one another, they play great games. The Georgia Tech, Georgia game of huge consequence from two years ago, a game in which Carson Beck started the game, hurt, toughed it out, and willed Georgia to victory, also with the help of referees. But the SEC narrative won't allow for that. Haynes, King and Carson Beck put on an all time show as one of the greatest regular season college football games I had ever seen. And now they are responsible for arguably one of the greatest preseason games you've ever seen. Tell me your top five.

[Mike Ryan]

Don't you try to draw me into your jive. I'm trying to keep the powder dry over here. Listen, you think that people, you know, like I'm doing a bit, don't watch preseason games. They are go. If your goal is to understand who is positioned to do well and who's not going to be good in the coming season, then don't watch preseason football because it tricks your eye. And if you watch that game, you would think, hey, Kenny Pickett, you know,

[Tashay]

I'll tell you what, he had some

[Mike Ryan]

tough years, but he's looking pretty sharp now. And I'll tell Carson Beck, man, I think a lot of teams slept on him. That was, those were the thoughts going through my mind. And then I legitimately said, turn the TV off because you're going to get seduced by Carson Beck and it's going to be a complete mirage in about 25 days.

[Tashay]

All right? So, yes, there are some times that a guy is lights out in the preseason and it's a total mirage, right? But you, you take the times that a dude flashed instantly and you knew right away he was gonna be good as an indicator. Whenever you watch these guys like Carson Beck, you harken back to the time you first saw Cam Newton do it in the pros. And you had your questions. That guy's gonna be good. Fans love to do that stuff.

[Mike Ryan]

All right, so, yeah, okay. It's a fun exercise, but if you're really trying to evaluate that, as I say, it just. It's an illusion.

[Commercial Announcer]

It's.

[Mike Ryan]

It's a lie.

[Tashay]

You don't think is going to be a starter in this league?

[Mike Ryan]

I think some people at your peril. I, you know, legitimately, Jacoby Brissette probably is sweating just a little bit today because now there's going to be the Cardinals fan base. The. The eight people in. In Phoenix that care about that team are probably saying, like, oh, number 19. That's. That's the answer. That's the future. By the way, I should mention Pablo Tory while we talk jive with another great report. Unless you're on the Clipper side or on Kawhi side. He's coming up at the top of the 10 o' clock hour, I believe is when we have him booked for. Wait, wait, wait. I don't know why you just did that to me, Roy. Was that wrong?

[Tashay]

That's classic radio right there.

[Mike Ryan]

Shouldn't mention the hour that it is because we're doing it because it's a podcast. Yeah. All right, well, listen.

[Tashay]

And took today off because he is elated because Pablo's reporting made the bottom line on espn. Yeah.

[Jeremy]

So he.

[Tashay]

The Daktronic story is now a lead headline on the bottom line. Congratulations, Pablo. To.

[Jeremy]

Well, that's only the case with ESPN because it has the word DAC in it.

[Dan Le Batard]

Right?

[Tashay]

Exactly.

[Mike Ryan]

Yes. Well done there, Tashay.

[Dan Le Batard]

Five minutes.

[Mike Ryan]

Pablo will be here five minutes.

[Dan Le Batard]

In five minutes.

[Dave Demachek]

Five minutes.

[Mike Ryan]

Oh, you're right. Okay, so he's coming up in a few minutes. You're the one that said the.

[Dave Demachek]

I know.

[Mike Ryan]

You're right. That was a mistake. I don't have to be attacked and dragged over the coals for it. What happened, happened, and I'm not one to live life in the rearview mirror. Except that I do want to go back to that hall of Fame game last night and further back by about three hours. Then Tirico and Collins Worth going wild over the last second touchdown in the pregame. Mike Tomlin, who used to be the Pittsburgh Steelers head coach, is now an analyst on the pregame show for NBC, and they asked him about his replacement, Mike McCarthy. Do we have some of that sound?

[Dan Le Batard]

Nope. You and I agreed before the show. You were like, no, I'll just describe

[Jeremy]

it to the people explaining the show.

[Mike Ryan]

Touche. Touche. I thought we were going to pull.

[Dan Le Batard]

Thanks for Scaring the shit out of me, though.

[Tashay]

Describe it at the top of the 10 o' clock hour.

[Commercial Announcer]

Pablo.

[Tashay]

I thought it was the chair.

[Mike Ryan]

I thought it was very interesting. Where do you come down on. I mean, you know, he was the Pittsburgh Steelers head coach six months ago. Don't worry, Dave.

[Tashay]

It happens all the time. Say we're not gonna do something. The chair says you are.

[Jeremy]

Yeah, you should probably explain it to the audience.

[Mike Ryan]

Listen, listen, listen.

[Jeremy]

No, you know what? My bad.

[Dave Demachek]

Look at him.

[Tashay]

Do you feel the need to talk about media and streaming rights?

[Mike Ryan]

I would like to talk about this. Mike Tomlin was the head coach of these Pittsburgh Steelers for the better part of two decades.

[Tashay]

Would you like to avoid the Rossini story?

[Mike Ryan]

We covered that, but. Good. And by the way, I thought Dan's explanation made all the sense in the world. ESPN should be talking about. A reporter who doesn't work at ESPN should be covering that story. Or should they be covering the head coach's marriage? That's a weird thing to dip into. No, either direction. I understand it is a dust up that transcended the two people, but his logic behind it made sense. All right, go ahead there. Mike Ryan.

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[Tashay]

We're all gonna die anyway.

[Mike Ryan]

Tomlinson.

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[Mike Ryan]

Tom?

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[Mike Ryan]

Early Tashay rubbing his temples. I don't know exactly what that does, but Tomlin says the coach for 20 years, thereabouts, he now calls the Steelers them and they. Where do you come down on that?

[Dan Le Batard]

It'd be odd. I think we'd make fun of him if he said we at this point.

[Commercial Announcer]

Black bodies breaking gladiator spectacle.

[Jeremy]

Hate when people use they, them, pronouns.

[Mike Ryan]

He. It's very strange the arm's length distance he now has from this team as he talks about how they went 10, 7 and how they haven't won games. And the expectation is. And the standard is, yeah, that was you the whole time, man. That was you for the last 20 years. I thought that was interesting stuff. Also with hall of Fame weekend here, I'm reminded of the. I think when, you know, we'll see during the speeches, part of the ceremony will be that they take a drape off of a little thing off of. And there will be a head statue, a bronze head statue of Drew Brees and the other guys. And it's a bust. It's a. But if you're the best, if you're one of the very best, you get a bust. But also if you're one of the very worst. You're a bust. Bust is our rangiest word.

[Commercial Announcer]

Jeremy, look up the origins of dust up. Why do we call it that? What is it? Dust up?

[Dan Le Batard]

I've. I've said something similar to what you're saying. With bus.

[Jeremy]

With washed.

[Dan Le Batard]

Like what you call someone wash. Jeremy,

[Commercial Announcer]

why is something washed?

[Dan Le Batard]

It's a bad thing. They're washed up. I enjoy it when I'm washed.

[Commercial Announcer]

Good to wash.

[Dan Le Batard]

I enjoy being washed.

[Mike Ryan]

You're born anew.

[Dan Le Batard]

I'm clean.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, you're clean.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Dan Le Batard]

But yet if I'm an athlete and I'm washed, that's bad.

[Commercial Announcer]

Help me with this. Help me understand.

[Mike Ryan]

You could be. You could be a head statue or you could be an all time bum at the sport that you were supposed to be good at.

[Dan Le Batard]

You can be Jamarcus Russell or Drew Brees.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right.

[Mike Ryan]

You could also be boobs if you're bust. And also you can. The coppers. The coppers.

[Tashay]

I always have to tell myself, no, they don't mean that. They mean that when they say bust.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, the coppers.

[Tashay]

You know, I'm a red blooded American male Dave Danishek.

[Mike Ryan]

Go ahead, say your filth. You want to work blue, that's your business.

[Tashay]

Bust. It's boobs, first and foremost.

[Mike Ryan]

Oh, I thought you were going even bluer.

[Tashay]

Oh, well, there is another type of bust.

[Mike Ryan]

And then if you're grammatically unsound, you can bust a watermelon.

[Tashay]

Right, But I don't. I don't like using bust in that way. Yeah, what I'm gonna bust, that is just. Is that MC Light?

[Mike Ryan]

What is this you're evaluating? Well, when I see blue version. When do you.

[Tashay]

When I say like, it depends on the decade. Because I'm about to bust.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah.

[Dave Demachek]

Ooh.

[Tashay]

How does he mean it? Sorry, honey, I'm about to bust. How does. How does he mean it? It depends on the decade. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I'm about to like, spit a mediocre rhyme right now.

[Jeremy]

Can be busted or orgasming.

[Dan Le Batard]

Bust the rhyme.

[Mike Ryan]

Well, say now, right, and arrest. Is there. Is there another contender to the throne? That is bust as our rangiest word in the English language.

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[Tashay]

Every football season gives you that one game you never get tired of talking about. For me, it happened in that wonderful run last January. Still running with his legs. Incredible memories, incredible games that the sport of football brings us. Now we're gearing up to do it all over again. Fantasy drafts are around the corner. I've already convinced myself this is the year that all my picks are going to work out, and I'm looking forward to spending another draft with friends and watching some games. Some good football with good buddies and ice cold Miller Lights in all our hands. That's right for me. It's the beer that I count on. It's crisp, refreshing. Plus it's a true American pilsner. The original light beer with just 96 calories and 3.2 carbs make game day legendary. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Game time is Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces down.

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[PJ]

PJ

[Tashay]

them a check.

[Mike Ryan]

That's pretty good.

[Commercial Announcer]

This is the Dan Levatar Show.

[Tashay]

Let's ask a Pulitzer Prize winner when he gets here. When we say bus, what is the way that you use it the most?

[Dan Le Batard]

Top five ways.

[Tashay]

It's a very rangy word.

[Mike Ryan]

Perfect. He joins us right on time here. He has some other stuff he wants to talk about, but here he is from the guy. He finds it all out. It's Pablo Torre. How are you? Congratulations, Muzel tov and otherwise to you on another breakout story here.

[Dave Demachek]

Thank you. To quote the Ghostbusters theme song, busting makes me feel good. I don't know if that's entered the discourse yet, but busting also can be, you know, you've caught someone doing something and so maybe there's that from the federal sense.

[Mike Ryan]

I don't know.

[Tashay]

That's how Pablo uses because he just busted Kawhi Leonard again, allegedly to protect us from legal ramification.

[Dave Demachek]

Look at him.

[Mike Ryan]

All right, so just to bring up to speed, another layer now with the Kawhi Leonard experience and the Clippers, and it seems as though, and what my brain always goes to with this particular story, that you continue to find new layers of Pablo is it really reminds me of Tom Brady with the Patriots. And do you see the connection there with the TB12 stuff? And all of that is that does. Does the TB12 stuff walk so that the Kawhi Leonard stuff can run?

[Dave Demachek]

So it's interesting there, of course, is that Tom Brady took materially less money to play for the Patriots, enabling all sorts of other salary cap hard cap flexibility in the NFL. Kawhi, the last extension he took from the Clippers was submax. But part of what's so glorious about this story is that, oh, we just of a superstar. Oh, wait, am I back? You're back.

[Tashay]

You're back.

[Betting Disclaimer Announcer]

Yes.

[Dave Demachek]

Okay.

[Tashay]

It was a bit of a cliffhanger.

[Dave Demachek]

Oh, excuse me. What I was saying was Before I was really interrupted or hacked, was this is the story in the NBA as well as allegedly the money off the books. And so that's where it got to be.

[Tashay]

All right, son.

[Dave Demachek]

With the Spurs.

[Tashay]

All right.

[Jeremy]

I think this is genuinely Tom Brady.

[Tashay]

Pablo, I'm going to call this what you got.

[Mike Ryan]

You got to.

[Tashay]

You got to back out of the zoom and back in. All right, this is.

[Dave Demachek]

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[Mike Ryan]

Let him do that. And why don't we summarize the. The. The newest layer of this story.

[Tashay]

Mike Ryan for the audience. We'll do that while we repair Pablo Torres connection. So last week, he had the. The Rhode Island FC thing, and I was like, I don't. I don't know. Where is this going? I don't want to criticize it. I don't want to call it a nothing.

[Mike Ryan]

This is not important. But I have. I'm vain, and I have to say this. Do you know I went to see Rhode Island FC play a game two weeks ago?

[Tashay]

Why weren't you on the episode? You had way more background knowledge of the second tier of.

[Mike Ryan]

I had never heard of them until I went and watched them play the Pittsburgh River Hounds, reigning champs of whatever league they're in, and that's who they vanquished. And then to see them in the news was weird.

[Tashay]

So last week, I was like, all right, I'm not gonna criticize this episode for not being substantive, because I know how Pablo gets down. This is gonna be a part of a bigger thing. And one week later, it was indeed part of a bigger thing. And the way that it's tethered to it is Rhode Island FC used Daktronics to put in some of the screens in their new stadium. Allegedly. No, not allegedly.

[Dan Le Batard]

Like that happened.

[Mike Ryan]

I just get scared.

[Dan Le Batard]

I just want to say it as much as possible.

[Tashay]

Yeah, that's a good guide. So, although that could be circumstantial, because as Pablo laid out and Pablo, you can defend it for yourself here. Daktronics is the industry leader, so it's not like a total gotcha that they did the screens for Rhode island fc, right?

[Dave Demachek]

No, I mean, look, it's important to point out that this is a story that has been hiding in plain sight for lots of reasons. One of them. One of them is that Daktronics is just a scoreboard company that lots of people use. Right. And so, look, the RIFC connection here, if you want to just jump right into that part, which is like, you know, a thing, we are still, of course, Unfolding and investigating. Daktronics, at the time that they got into business with the Clippers, was worried about bankruptcy. Like, Daktronics becomes the worldwide leader in Jumbotrons on the back in, in large part according to their own press releases, on the back of this $100 million Halo board build out in the Intuit Dome. But we got earnings call. I mean, we have literal tape from the heads of Daktronics, including their auditor who's saying there is a going concern, meaning within 12 months we might be a bankrupt company. And so this Intuit Dome deal, it could not have been more important to the worldwide leader in Jumbotrons because they were absolutely worried about their ability to exist as a company. And so the question of, like, what kind of influence did the Clippers have over Daktronics at the time in the year 2023, the stock chart tells the story, so do the earnings calls, so does the annual report from the company itself. And so it's not the case that this has always been a company that could do business with everybody and everybody wants to do business with them. It's actually the story of how the Clippers saved them. And so then what happens afterwards? Well, it turns out, simultaneous to that Intuit Dome build out, in this exact same timeline, they are building a video board for the Rhode Island Football Club. And we leave it at that in this episode. But you can surmise that this is something that we are extremely interested in.

[Jeremy]

Pablo. The part that really shocked me when I was listening wasn't just the fact that there was this almost clear transfer of power of aspiration falling apart to then Daktronics sort of stepping in and being the next sponsorship deal that involved Kawhi. But the fact that at least with aspiration, there were other celebrity endorsements, Daktronics is a B2B business. Like, this made no sense.

[Dave Demachek]

Yeah, I mean, that's the comedy of this, is that this is a company that has zero endorsers of any kind on the record ever. We talked to for, we talked about half dozen former and current Daktronics employees who said literally that like, we're a B2B company. You don't like buy a Jumbotron at Walmart. No one is making a decision to go contract with Daktronics over their competitor because this celebrity athlete is saying, I endorse this brand. And more to the point, Daktronics themselves, again, when you go through their advertising materials, when you go through what they've put into, again, these earnings calls and annual reports. They actually advertise that they don't advertise. They say that effectively other companies use sponsorships, we don't. And so the idea that they would break precedent by signing Kawhi Leonard secretly to a deal, as we report, that was for millions of dollars that no one, once again, in the aspiration mold, no one ever knew about outside of the companies involved and was never announced. And to which there is no recorded information of Kawhi doing anything towards, as well as multiple attempts to get answers to the questions of like, hey, is there any evidence that Kauhi did anything? Do you want to answer any of these questions directly? Those answers come back no. All of that sounds a lot like aspiration in terms of a template.

[Tashay]

It's like Florida Power and Light or Waste Management having a pitch man. This is just totally not necessary and it makes no sense. And I think that through your investigation here, Pablo, this seems given the background, because aspiration had a ton of endorsement deals and, and you could argue a ton of those were also no show jobs. This one hiding, apparently, I guess in plain sight, is really, really damning. And ESPN is running with this where they, they've, they've picked and chosen which, which of your reports to run with. This one's getting bottom line attention. This one is sending shockwaves throughout. How many of these things could Kawhi Leonard possibly have I. This seems, I don't understand for the life of me why it's so messy and it really, and I know I don't want to put you in a place where you're guessing because you're investigating Kawhi right now, but there are so many of these with Kawhi Leonard and the response from the NBA is so weird that the conspiracy theory starts formulating in the mind that the NBA wants this to go, go away because maybe what Kawhi is doing isn't so outlandish by NBA standards.

[Dave Demachek]

This is, this is what's at stake here, right? Adam Silver, if you listen to his own words when he talks about cap circumvention, when the NBA itself investigated the Clippers in 2019 because of complaints from the Lakers and the Raptors, direct to the league office about how Dennis Robertson and Kawhi Leonard were asking for things in circumvention of the salary cap in order to sign as a free agent, right? Adam Silver clears them and says there's no evidence, but reiterates salary capture convention is the cardinal rule of our leak. Relatedly, by the way, in 2015 when Steve Ballmer's Clippers are investigated because they offer this deal with a team sponsor, Lexus, to DeAndre Jordan, there is a fine, is a quarter million dollars fine that says you can't do that. You can't do that in your free agent or in your presentation behind closed doors to a free agent like DeAndre Jordan. And they were punished for that. And so the point that I'm establishing here, Mike, to your question, is this is a pattern. As much as I would like to be the guy who discovered salary cap circumvention with the Clippers, the first one on this planet to ever do that, it goes to 2015, and it goes to the question of what does the richest owner in American sports want to do and what is he not able to because of these pesky cardinal rules? And so the question of how many of these are there? I continue to quote Michael Winger, the general manager of the Clippers at that time, this is now 23, 24. Because he says, quote, how many bleeping side deals have we made with Kawhi? In an exasperated way. Because what Ballmer did, according to all of our reporting, as well as, by the way, the allegations in 2019, was service a free agent that he wanted as much as a person can want anything, right? Just imagine the motive here. He's opening the Intuit Dome. He needs a franchise player. He's a basketball fan. He's competing with the Lakers in their very same city. And Kawhi Leonard had just won a title microwave the championship with the Raptors. So the desire here cannot be overstated. And so the ambition is also proportional to that. And so what do you do? According to our reporting, you create the largest salary cap circumvention scheme that's ever existed in professional sports.

[Mike Ryan]

Couple things. First of all, to go back to the potential sponsorship of Daktronics, I mean, Dak Prescott's sitting right there. They haven't made a deal with him. Very strange.

[Dave Demachek]

His agent Dax.

[Mike Ryan]

Agent should be really kicking his assamed, right? With the Kawhi. What you and Mike are kind of getting at is I always thought with the Deshaun Watson, to try to make a very strained analog Deshaun Watson doing that with massage therapists. He did what? What kind of creepo would do that? And I, you know, as a reminder, he was doing that and then got caught doing it by somebody who felt violated by that. But he didn't just jump in that. That wasn't the first time he did it. This was a pattern of behavior. So beyond just Kawhi and the Clippers, is that Adam Silver's concern is this siloed with just that franchise and the rich owner or do you imagine, and again, I'm putting you in a spot to speculate. Do you think that Silver is afraid or maybe knows even more that it is a league wide issue?

[Dave Demachek]

I think what is the issue here from the highest possible level is the question of whether fans, let's be honest about it, whether fans believe that this game is on the up and up. Right. There's an integrity of the game concern here and I don't want to be the guy who's moralizing because truly, like the whole approach of the story is we want to tell the truth as best we can, however dangerous it might be, given various looming litigation as the allegedly imply. And our goal is to not advocate for a specific punishment. I've not done that once. I have merely said like, we got to take this stuff seriously. Because by the way, I think it's worse than people in the public realize. Like, I'm comfortable saying that according to our reporting. But in terms of like, why should the NBA care about this? It's because we're at this inflection point in this sport. And this goes to the gambling scandal, which we've also been investigating. It goes to the salary capture convention scandal, parentheses s as allegations are swirling, by the way, not just around Kawhi Leonard, but of course Gary Trent Jr. And certainly there are news cycles, some of them originating very prominently in the studio I'm addressing right now around every superstar acquisition, what else is on the table? And so the thing that can't be understated here, the thing that I think the NBA should be very aware of, is that I was also surprised that people cared this much about cap circumvention. And so the question is why? And I think it's because it speaks to a moment we live in right now where we care deeply about sports. We are investing our money in them, we are investing our time and our energy and our emotions in them. And if you don't think the thing you are betting on literally and figuratively caring about with the emotion of an ancestral inheritance is actually the thing it's claiming to be, is actually the thing it's selling you, then you have a business problem. And so I just start with the grassroots level of what a fans think because that's what's been astonishing. People feel like they're not being told the truth. And after an episode like this in which we show the ways in which Steve Ballmer hid his identity, according to the LA District Attorney's office, behind an LLC to build the Dome in the first place. It's hard not to sympathize with people who think that the billionaires are saying stuff behind closed doors that they don't want want you out there in the public to know we all know there's

[Jeremy]

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[Jeremy]

so getting to August it's now the end of the summer and it feels a bit like the calm before the storm of the fall. Schedule the show. There's broadcasting gigs, everything else. And so I need clothes that are comfortable, that look good and don't require a lot of thought. Especially here in Miami in the humidity where I'm going to sweat through everything. And that doesn't happen for me right now because I've been upgrading my staples with Quince. Their ultra soft organic tees have become an easy go to for me. They fit well, they feel premium and they work whether I'm headed to the studio or if I'm going out afterward. Quint delivers that quality for 50 to 80% less than similar brands by working directly with ethical factories and cutting out the middlemen. I use quints and you should too. So upgrade your everyday Download the quints app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com dan get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's Quincy.

[Tashay]

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[Mike Ryan]

Levitar I don't like the word blue, but I do have at least one pal that I can think of who has actually he says he fell asleep in coitus. Dave demachek, you may look at me and be surprised to hear this. I happen to be a vigorous lovemaker, so that would never happen to me.

[Commercial Announcer]

This is the Dan Levatar Show.

[Tashay]

Still trying to piece together what you mean by in this studio. And I look down at my jersey. I'm like, did Inter Miami do something? Well, I mean they famously did with Apple, but they actually have designated player rules. And maybe I can't believe I'm about to say this, maybe an actual professional sports league can learn from the MLS in that you can literally pay a designated player whatever you want. It does not count against your cap.

[Dave Demachek]

I am. The thing you're not going to hear from me is the moral indignation of the salary cap as a instrument of righteousness must be validated and defended. I had the Morris Smith on ptfo, the former head of the nflpa, to talk about why he thinks the union should be concerned about this. Concerned in a way that I think is surprising to people. Because typically you'd imagine every Union must, of course, take the side of the player no matter what. And of course, Kawhi Leonard, as he has been receiving according to reporting, he deserves a representation of the union, and he will receive it, and he should. But in terms of what else the union should consider, what the Morris Smith was telling me was that this is also the story of the CBA being allegedly broken by the richest owner in sports. And if you're the union and you fight tooth and nail in collective bargaining to get to an agreement, this covenant, right, if you're gonna let ownership break those rules and get away with it to this degree, what you're effectively doing is surrendering your ability to enforce that CBA when it directly speaks to your interests in ways that are even clearer. And so it's not merely player versus owner here. It's about literally what the rules are and whether they matter and who should want to enfor. And I would argue that the rule of law in every facet of our country, whether it's governmental, whether it's something silly like sports, the rules are there to protect the people with less resources. They're there to protect people who don't have the force of closed doors and billions of dollars. It's there to protect those who need to seek and appeal to the rules to protect their interests. And so if you give on a violation this flagrant, what you're doing is you're losing the ability to credibly claim that you care about these rules in general. And I will say, Mike, by the way, to the whole designated player exemption thing, I have now talked and heard from the representatives of star players in the NBA who are not Kawhi Leonard. And their response is, not to be very clear. It's not Kawhi, good job. Go get yours. It's why can't we also do this? You have a guy breaking the rules like this. Allegedly. We're the, we're the idiots who are preventing ourselves from also cashing in. Like, it's not, it's not that Kawhi Leonard secret deals are something that everybody thinks should be defended because they want them for themselves. They're realizing we can't access that, but that guy can. And that is a problem because we're actually not as bold in doing the degree of stuff that he is doing. And so that's just part of the consideration, I think, as well.

[Tashay]

So a big part of enforcing these rules is the NBA's investigation via Wattel Lipton. And there is a huge jaw dropping moment where a daktronic Spokesperson invokes on their own, the Wattel investigation. What did you make of that? What does this mean?

[Dave Demachek]

Yeah, I mean, so to explain the context here as a point in the episode, and I really hope people listen and watch the episode, because the full thing as we unfold it, it's also kind of just like torturing Amin with information that he's struggling to piece together. And I love that part. Like, the audience is Amin, but Amin is in the dunk tank a bit because it's been hiding there in front of him. But one of the things that's hiding there is the fact that Daktronics, when we have our collaborator, our friend and colleague Sam Koppelpy from Hunter Brook Media, when we have him tell us about his experience going directly to Daktronics for comment about all of this, and what he is met with is a crisis communications firm after Daktronics first sends him to their general counsel, by the way, which is a bit, I think, revealing in terms of like, okay, they're taking this quite seriously. Kawhi Leonard has not been mentioned at all yet, but they're immediately escalating this to, this is an issue. The crisis communications firm says a couple of fascinating things. One of the things that he says, of course, is, quote, we don't have a deal with Kawhi right now. And that's, I think, a telling tense there, as we discussed in the episode, why that would be. And then the other thing he says that Mike raises is, and I want to get this right here because it's really important, he says, here we go, quote, I don't know what the company wants to say or can say given the Wachtel investigation. And so what we're dealing with here is Daktronics, a company that has been managing the issue of the Wachtel investigation before we ever called them. That is what our reporting is telling us. And so the question for all of us to contemplate here is, is the NBA and is Wachtel Lipton taking this story as seriously as they should? And my hope and belief is that of course they should and are. But, you know, we won't know until we get whatever it is that they are going to publish, because this has not been mentioned anywhere else. It's taken us a while to get it onto the record. But that investigation, the thing that I empathize with, if you're a lawyer, Wakta Lipton, is not only they have to subscribe to this weird podcast to figure out if you're going to get in trouble, maybe with your boss, Adam Silver, but also you're trying to follow every thread that we're also tugging at. And what you realize is that these threads connect according to our reporting. Everything we're telling you, we are telling you for a deliberate reason. That's the story of how we structured this episode. It's the story of why we did it after the RIFC episode. It's the story of why it is that no one can rationally explain without cap circumvention. Why it is that Kawhi Leonard keeps getting multimillion dollar secret deals with Clippers partners that are never announced and which no one has any evidence that he did anything for.

[Jeremy]

And Pablo, like when I was watching this, I couldn't help but think about what's going on across town in L. A, not with the Lakers, but with the Dodgers. And I think about the range of all of this, as we put it, cross sport, because you have one league right now where you have the Clippers and their rich owner circumventing the rules, allegedly of the salary cap to try to load the deck for their team. And yet in this other league, in Major League Baseball with the Dodgers, they're following every rule, every rule of Major League Baseball has allowed them to create this quasi super team. And yet what the Major League Baseball owners are doing is saying, we need a salary cap for you, the fan, to prevent the Dodgers from creating these super teams and acquiring these superstars. And yet you have the Clippers right here in the same town with the rules in place, potentially skirting those rules and being able to acquire those superstars. So for the, for the fans, for the question that you're asking of is the NBA paying attention? For the question that Dan asked last week of like, like, why don't fans seem to care more? I think that's the way we can position this to sort of look at the attention of, yeah, it doesn't matter if Kawhi Leonard individually got some more money. It's the greater conversation of why are these rules even in place to begin with if the richest of owners can skirt them and effectively create a super team for themselves that other organizations don't have those advantages to create.

[Dave Demachek]

So the bigger picture, zoom out issue for all of sports here is that these things are so expensive that we're going to get to a point pretty soon where no individual billionaire can even afford them. And so what you're seeing is the widening of the gap, right? So Ballmer, when he comes in and he replaces, of course, Donald STERLING he pays $2 billion for the Clippers, and this is a record price. And Adam Silver, this is his first job, right? He has the white knight riding in expelling Donald Sterling, bringing in Steve Ballmer, tech guy, former Microsoft CEO, who's going to pay all this. And so that, in retrospect, was just the beginning because over time, what we've seen. And Mark Walter, by the way, the owner of the Dodgers and the Lakers, the guy that Jeremy, you're referring to, he is not merely himself, he is also Guggenheim Partners, he is also institutional investing that is backing him. And so when you get to teams being valuated as the Dodgers and lakers are at $10 billion plus or whatever it is that the market rate is at this point on August 7, 2026, what you' getting to is a class of owners who are either institutional investors, meaning hedge funds, private equity conglomerations of people and, or hyper, hyper super wealthy people like Steve Ballmer who have $140 billion at their disposal and they have advantages that allow them to do things that the rest of the former sort of understanding of owners that we used to have, those guys, it makes them look poor in comparison. And so this is an issue. The unbelievable wealth of sports, right? Sports is winning and so are all the owners. But there are some owners who are distinguishing themselves by their wealth as different. And that gap is only getting larger over time. And so the question for any commissioner, as you welcome in new owners, by the way, and you manage the country club in which suddenly now this is beginning to feel like a union membership where not everybody is incentivized in the same ways. Now, it's always been the case with big markets versus small markets, but it's been exacerbated now through sheer wealth, right? Some people are a lot more liquid than others. They have more money to spend than others. What you're getting to is this question of how can the commissioner possibly govern and hold these people to account? How can the rules matter? How can you actually make it so that they have to abide by things that are designed to constrain their ability? And so in baseball, look, that's a whole other series that I want to get to the question of, like, should baseball have a salary cap? And how much is the skubal thing? How much is that? Just like the, the sort of like coin in that arcade machine that tips all the other coins down and suddenly now we have a salary cap because that was too much. But I think the question here is about the wealth gap. And it's not the wealth gap between average citizen and billionaire. It's normal billionaire versus the richest people who can only afford who are the only ones who can afford these teams now, right?

[Mike Ryan]

Major League Baseball expresses capitalism in a way that the NFL, specifically our most communist professional sports league, doesn't. And is the answer as simple Pablo the results of the Dodgers, which is back to back titles, versus the Clippers Clippering with Kawhi Leonard. It's as straightforward as that. That's why there's not a more visceral fan level reaction to the Kawhi Leonard saga here.

[Dave Demachek]

Well, I think, look, there is the comedy, right? The dark comedy, if you're a Clipper fan of we went to every possible extent to do this and we ended up sending away the future MVP and Finals MVP to Oklahoma City. That now tortures us every time we see them, right? Like there is just the insult to injury, so to speak, of what the Clippers did and how it backfired beyond even not winning a title, but arming the Thunder with the ingredients to be a dynasty. So I think certainly we play the results right. If this was a championship team, there would be even more outrage if this was a team that had succeeded more brilliantly along these lines, we would have, I think, paid attention to this a lot sooner. But to me, the story is not the story of this is how you win. The story is this is how you mislead the public and allegedly hide the truth of what you're doing right in front of their eyes. And that's why I think this is a sports business story and why this is a public interest story than anything else. Like, it's why RIFC we spent all this time talking about like the housing crisis in Rhode Island. It's that taxpayer money got sucked into that. It's why in this episode, even though Ballmer built the Intuit Dome with private money entirely, which is to his enduring credit, to be very clear, it's the fact that he hid his identity behind this LLC Murphy's bowl, which was generically named as a matter of design to obfuscate the truth in front of the citizens of Inglewood so they wouldn't know what was being put in front of their eyes until it was a really, really inconvenient timeline to debate. That's according to the LA District Attorney's office. Like the people who are running sports are playing a different game. And this is the story of why we should be exposing that marvelous stuff.

[Mike Ryan]

Once again, per usual, Pablo Torre is finding stuff out.

[Commercial Announcer]

No one's doing this stuff.

[Dave Demachek]

Who is it? Who's that? What's that?

[Commercial Announcer]

Oh. Oh, there it is.

[Dave Demachek]

Pablo.

[Commercial Announcer]

Pablo, you did it again. Oh, look at us. Just a couple of Pulitzer Prize winners, upholding journalistic values, saving America. Why won't enough people talk about this? Why? I will proceed to talk about it every day.

[Mike Ryan]

Pablo. Now, Dan Levitar getting busted. Don't get busted.

[Dave Demachek]

I was gonna say why?

[Mike Ryan]

Leonard signing with the Clippers was a busting over journalism bust. Big J, see if you can find a range of your words. See if you can find that one out. Pablo Torre, great work. In the meantime, man, thanks for joining.

[Dave Demachek]

Thank you for sparing the animation where Dan, you know, busts. I guess that'd be a bit graphic to go that. That far. Oh, God.

[PJ]

Hello.

[Mike Ryan]

Look what TJ Maxx dragged in.

[Dave Demachek]

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[Dave Demachek]

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