B (3:25)

Thanks, Dave.

A (3:25)

Well, it's been a week of trimming and transactions and of course the biggest transaction of all happened on Instagram. Kansas City Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce proposed to the Grammy award winning singer songwriter Taylor Swift. Now, much has been said about the proposal, but can we clear something up? While Travis proposed on his right knee. Was it the right knee? I, you know, I don't know what that even means. Is it the right knee? But I am proud to say I did hear about this engagement.

C (3:54)

Well, if it's the right knee that you're talking about, that's the one that's been giving Travis Kelce his injury problems his entire career. But the last significant injury was his rookie year like 12 years ago. So I don't know what Casey fans are worried about.

A (4:05)

Well, I do think you make a good point. The left knee is the safe knee to use there. Sorry, 87, bad choice on the knee, but muzzle tough on the engagement. Bradley, what's next? Well, finally, thanks to your input, football Americans, we have decided America's team for the 2025 season. Dave Boiled it down to a final four of Dallas, Buffalo, Detroit and Green Bay. I did. No, for the record, I didn't. I threw it out to football America. I was just like Simon Cowell giving some ideas out there. Football Americans are the ones who made the decision here. So who came out on top as America's team, the Buffalo Bills. This is the right choice, Teach. You got the Kansas City Chiefs, you got the Jacksonville Jaguars, you got the New England plate. But look, there are a lot of good teams in the NFL, but the Buffalo Bills are now Football America's Team 2025. Hey, related matter. I just checked the odds. Here it is, my weekly Super Bowl 60 pick. It's still the Bills and the Niners, but how about this, the odds are a little bit shorter now down to 4 to 1. Coincidence that we've been buzzing about this super bowl matchup and now those odds have dropped a little bit. Yeah, probably just a coincidence, but still. I thought I would mention it here. Hi Hello NFL fans. Week one is your shot to play free and stack a million dollar cash bag with DraftKings Pick Six, an official partner of the NFL. Here's how. Download the DraftKings Pick Six app. DraftKings easiest way to play Fantasy Enter for free and pick more or less on six player stats for Week one. Share your link with friends to add more cash to the bag and get bonus shots to win. Hit all six picks and you'll be splitting a bag that's already at $1,000,000 or more. Download the DraftKings Pick Six app, use the code Damishek D A M E S H E K Opt in for free and start stacking entries for NFL Week 10 Cost huge upside in partnership with DraftKings Pick Six, the crown is yours.

D (6:05)

Gambling problem Call 1-800-Gambler in New York. Call 877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY at 467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino and resort in Kansas, 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Boyden, Ontario bonus bets expire seven days after issuance. For additional terms on responsible gaming resources, see NG Co Audio.

A (6:34)

All right, it's time for the debut of Angel v. Devil. That is two Fuentes is entering. One. Fuentes leaving. I have some important decisions to make in my upcoming Fantasy draft and I have Mike and Gino in either ear. All right, I'm not going to waste time debating Josh Allen versus Lamar Jackson. Obviously, if you get either one of those guys, you're going to be in pretty good shape. Let's go second tier, maybe even third tier here. Four names. You tell me the best one out of it. Justin Herbert, Caleb Williams, Dak Prescott, Justin Fields, Gino I'm going to go to you with this one first, okay?

C (7:10)

You got to play the game here. You're not doing real life, you're playing fantasy football. The last year that Justin Fields was.

A (7:17)

Don't condescend to me. I think I know what the rules are here. Go ahead.

C (7:21)

The last year in Chicago, Justin Fields was completing somewhere between 12 and 13 passes a game. Not a lot.

D (7:27)

World beater. Wow.

C (7:28)

Not. Not a lot. He was still fifth in fantasy points that year because he runs that much. And that's what you're trying to do here. You're trying to outsmart everybody here. I'm sure this is, this is down in what, the 10th, 11th, 12th round.

D (7:39)

Going undrafted in a lot of mocks I'm doing.

A (7:41)

Yeah.

C (7:42)

So you can get Justin Fields. He is probably going to be a top 10 quarterback even if he's not a great passer. So is do it. Beat the system, play the game.

A (7:51)

It does feel like. And this is, we don't know because what we know is what we've seen in preseason, which doesn't matter for anything, but it does seem like they want to run him around a lot more than the Steelers did a year ago. I'm sorry I got in your way, Mike. Go ahead.

D (8:05)

Yeah. So out of the four quarterbacks we have presented here, we have Justin Herbert, Kalen Williams, Dak Prescott, Justin Fields.

C (8:10)

Right.

D (8:11)

The guy, the only guy I'm 100% out on is Justin Herbert. Not because he's not a solid quarterback. His coach wants to run the ball, he wants to run the ball a lot. He has great weapons, he's got keen Allen back, lad McConkey, he's good for a couple games. But the guy that everybody's down on because of last year and probably just by where he plays, by virtue of them being the Cowboys, is Dak. And obviously he's not going to have a disaster of a year like it was last year. But all the other experts say that Dak is the best fantasy quarterback of these four. And I'm not going to go around thinking I'm smarter than everybody on the Internet. So with George Pickens CD Lamb, I can't say anything about the running back. It's like I think they have like Miles Sanders and some guys, like, I can't really say anything about that, but I do expect a huge bounce back year from Dak. He'll probably steal you like what, like three rushing touchdowns a year. And I get what you're saying about Justin Fields, but Justin Fields a helmet in the Ribs away from being out for multiple weeks. So I'm gonna go with Dak Prescott as I love Caleb Williams. I think huge year for Caleb Williams, but I'm not gonna say that everybody else is wrong and Dax not the guy you want out of these four.

A (9:12)

These are some good thoughts from both of you. I really want to go Caleb Williams here. Ben Johnson, I have made it pretty clear here that, that I'm all in on what Ben Johnson is going to be able to do in Chicago like he just did up in up in Detroit. It's a little too murky for me. Dak is the known entity obviously out of this quartet of guys. And consider we don't think that defense is going to be good in Dallas. Right. And back to reality versus fantasy. If you don't have a good defense, that means you're going to be throwing a lot, you're going to be in shootouts on offense a lot. That describes to me a really good season for Dak who probably at this stage and two major injuries in at this point is not going to be running around a lot. So you'll lose something there. But I mean CD Lamb, don't forget about Jake Ferguson either. And now George Pickens. There should be a lot of touchdowns scored against Dallas, but also for Dallas. So I think Dak is the correct answer here. Next up, Gino. How about this? Let's travel to Los Angeles. The Raider, the the rise of Raiders, Rams and Chargers share that joint. A few miles away from where I sit right now, the rookie of Marion Hampton or the vet who we've seen produce Kyron Williams.

C (10:28)

Okay, we've seen Kyron Williams, but we've also seen how Matt Stafford is so close to missing the season that he's taking epidurals in the preseason. So rather than deal with that, we've got this 6 to 200 pound, 220 pound monster at running back whose backup is missing an eye. For all we know, Harbaugh loves to run the ball. Frank Gore was became a Hall of Fame running back under his tutelage. It's year two of the Harbaugh experience. Have some fun. Mystery bag here. Omarion Hampton, he's huge. He looks the part. He could probably score a lot of touchdowns. He's probably going to be on the goal line all the time. So I would go with Amarian Hampton here.

A (11:06)

All right, let's hear your pushback on that Mike. Pretty good case.

D (11:09)

Well, like you said, Kyron Williams, we know what he's going to give us, right? He's a high production running back. I think the having Devonte Adams now actually lining up a wide receiver will be good for him because before it was just Puka and AUA and a very hurt Cooper Cup. No, I don't think so.

B (11:21)

That's going to take away touchdowns.

D (11:22)

I don't think so. It might. How do you figure on long passes? Kyron Williams? Name the second running back in for the Rams. I'll wait. Start googling.

C (11:30)

Good point.

D (11:30)

Start googling.

A (11:31)

What do you mean name him?

D (11:34)

Yeah, more like who cares. Okay, so Kyron Williams did everything last year. I expect him to do everything again this year. Now there are some concerns with that Stafford thing, but maybe they lean on him a little more. Stafford can go but I think we're going to get a lot of the same from Kyron Williams. I expect similar product, similar production from last year.

A (11:51)

Well, good points here. Gino clearly wins this one. I'm taking the rookie here. Wear and tear is not a good thing on a running back. That experience is great at qb. It is not great for a running back. You want the fresh legs there. That one goes to Gino. Next up, let's go talk about known entity CMC against the rook Ashton Genty. This is a fun one. Mike, you start us off here.

D (12:17)

We all know when Christian McCaffrey's right, one of the best fantasy players there is now it's kind of scary what he had last year. I think it was what Achilles injuries to both legs do. You know if I'm not wrong, he had like a calf injuries but kind of, kind of in the Achilles. Yeah. And usually when your guys going to Germany, not that great. So with all that Christian McCaffrey if he can stay healthy because you don't live in fear. Okay. You don't live in fear out here in fantasy world you choose guys based on their production. We all know he's one of the greatest running backs in the game, especially for fantasy. It does hurt him a little bit since Brian Robertson Jr. Is there now. I expect Brian Robertson Jr. To take literally anything within the five yard line. But we just know that Christian McAffrey was basically their entire offense last, well two years ago before he got the injuries. So it's just, it's really hard. I know as in Genti. The thing is he's a battering ram. He's going to be really good. He's a rookie, he's much younger. But he's on a team where the offense I think might struggle a little bit. And Christian McCaffrey know what you're going to get better safe than Sorry. Christian McCaffrey.

C (13:10)

Gino, do you know what Pete Carroll does to running backs? He just gives them the ball over and over and over and he runs plays that have been described by Marshawn Lintz as running through an MFer's face. And this guy had 2,600 yards rushing last year at Boise State and they used this number 6 overall pick on him. They're going to give him the ball over.

D (13:32)

Yeah. Because the Raiders. The Raiders never taken bad draft picks before. They never taken anything bad spot.

A (13:36)

Yeah.

C (13:37)

And if you do that to Christian McCaffrey, his Achilles.

A (13:39)

Yeah.

D (13:40)

Well, I don't expect him to have the same running style as Ashton Genty, but I expect him to be involved and involved often, especially with, you know, the way that the wide receiver situation is there right now.

C (13:48)

Okay, so one's in his early 20s, one's on the age cliff.

D (13:51)

You got me there.

B (13:51)

Yeah.

C (13:52)

I'm taking my chances with the rook.

A (13:54)

You know what? Gino once again wins this one and I, you know. Right. You know, Pete Carroll's going to give the ball to the rook a ton. And I don't like that offensive line necessarily in Vegas, but I also don't like. Remember, everybody gets amnesia about this stuff. CMC was a MVP candidate two years ago, but then the injuries returned. And I say return because that's our perception before that MVP adjacent season from CMC is what a talent. If only he could stay healthy. That's been the story of CMC as much as anything else has. I'll take the unknown in the rook because you know that the Raiders are going to try to ride him. And one more thing with Shanny, this team perceives itself rightly. I picked them to go to the super bowl. As you know, they're going to try to spare CMC late September hits whenever they possibly can. The Raiders are not concerned about such matters. So I'm going to ride with with Genti here. You mentioned Brian Robinson, so let's get to him now. Jacori, Crosby, Barrett, that's the reason that the, the commies could deal away Brian Robinson who's been a touchdown machine since he got to Washington. But now the kid is rising up and there's Austin Eckler. Mike, talk me into whatever the best option is out of all those names.

D (15:18)

So I don't like Brian Robinson Jr. Because he's going to be second fiddle over there. He might get some touches here. They're very capable starting running back. I'm not Going to say much, but I know I made a fair amount of money betting Brian Robinson anytime touchdown last year, but that's just me. But I kind of like Austin Eckler here just because I don't think his workload will change in Washington. But he's the type of guy that even with a limited amount of touches, he always makes the most of them. He's always a dynamic out of the backfield guy. He's obviously not going to be doing the four back thing anymore. It's too old, too many injuries. So I do like Austin Eckler just because he's always produced. And I feel like the Commanders are going to kind of go for this little, like, kind of what Buffalo has going on where our running back not that important. We have a guy who can throw and run and we're going to try to optimize that. Now, obviously he's not built like Josh Allen. They'd be dumb to have him kind of taking those hits. But I think they're going to go for an offense that's more that style. So I kind of like Austin and then. Well, Bill, right? He wants to be called Bill.

C (16:06)

Bill Crosby.

D (16:06)

Bill Crosby. Merit. I think he'll get a good amount of touches, but I think it'll be much more of a 50, 50 split than people are going to realize.

A (16:13)

I all I did hear about the Bill Crosby. I don't know if that's a great PR move. Yeah. Gino, do a little PR for your favorite running back out of this group. All right.

C (16:23)

I think I'm going to agree with Mike here in that Brian Robinson, that's.

D (16:27)

Not the rules of the game. And I was told specifically by Bradley in the email, but this is not the rules. Okay. Angel and Devil are not the same age. Yeah.

A (16:36)

All right.

C (16:36)

But he could get one right every now and then. And Brian Robinson has been deleted by virtue of being the backup to Chris McCall.

A (16:41)

Yeah.

C (16:41)

You might not see the field at all some games.

D (16:43)

Yeah.

C (16:44)

Okay.

A (16:44)

All right. And we all agree Bill Crosby is.

C (16:46)

Not a great Bill Crosby.

D (16:48)

Bill Crosby might be good.

C (16:49)

Is seven feet tall and runs a 4, 440. No.

A (16:52)

Why not?

C (16:53)

Let's do some mystery bag.

D (16:54)

4, 4 and a half. Really?

C (16:55)

Let's do some more mystery bag here. It's going to be at the what, the end of your draft.

B (16:58)

Yeah.

D (16:58)

This is your third straight rookie guy that you're going for.

C (17:00)

I mean, I'm like, you're at the end of the draft. You got either Austin Eckler, who you know is only going to Be in there half the time or you've got Bill Crosky, Mary, who will also always.

D (17:08)

Be there half the time.

C (17:09)

But who's to say that maybe this guy just jumps in and he has a 1300 rushing yard touchdown?

D (17:14)

I guess you're leaning into fantasy football. What may happen? What do this? What do that?

C (17:19)

What are you going to take him? Are going to take him in the 10th, 11th round?

D (17:21)

No. These are all guys at the bottom of the barrel. But I'd rather have a guy I know he's going to give me something. At the minimum, Ector's going to catch four balls a game and maybe he takes one for 20 yards and then you got something. These are all flex guys. We know that. We're not trying to like get RB2s here, you know.

A (17:32)

So, Mike, what do you make of Geno's argument? Like, who's to say?

D (17:36)

Yeah, oh, yeah, I guess make stuff.

A (17:38)

You're. You're to say the 11th round.

C (17:41)

In the 11th round, you take lottery tickets.

D (17:43)

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So why not take a guy that you know is going to give you something? Make it. Make a choice. Dave. Yeah.

A (17:50)

You know what I think? I think the correct answer here is actually Brian Robinson. And I'm going to go back to what you said a minute ago, Mike, about him stealing goal line touches from CMC at this stage in his career, CMC doesn't need the glory of getting those touches at the goal line. Shannon doesn't owe him that. I think that's Brian Robinson's value. Right. So I, I think that if you're in a pinch and you need to put somebody in there, Brian Robinson might end up giving you at least six points on two carries. And that might be enough to exceed whatever Austin Eckler gives you in that offense. It's awfully murky as far as I'm concerned right now. All right, real quick. T. Higgins, the clear cut number two in Cincinnati against DK Metcalf, the clear cut number one, but with a probably murkier passing game situation in Pittsburgh than Cincinnati. Gino, start us off here.

C (18:46)

I'm going T. Higgins here because it doesn't matter that he's the number two receiver in this offense. He's got Joe Burrow throwing him the ball. They have no defense to speak of. So they're going to throw over and over again with Zach Taylor, who we know is a madman who just doesn't run the ball. He only runs the ball because he has to. Otherwise they're going to sack his quarterback on every play. So I'm going to go T. Higgins here. Doesn't matter that he's the number two receiver on the team. He'll probably catch 80 balls and 10 touchdowns this year.

A (19:13)

Mike, how say you?

D (19:15)

I'm a big T. Higgins guy. I said multiple times. I'll trade Jalen Waddle and stuff for him. Right now I'd much rather have him and a burner, but man, he sure likes to get ankle injuries. He gets them a lot when he's playing. He's fantastic. I remember there was some three touchdown games last year. He won me some games all by himself. He was fantastic, but he misses a lot.

C (19:34)

So the guy that chose CMC is going to be worried about that.

D (19:37)

Yeah, because on the other side, when I have DK Metcalf, I have this huge receiver with probably I want to might be the best quarterback he's had in his career outside of Russell Wilson those first couple of years, I'm guessing. So I mean I've never been a big Geno Smith guy. DK Metcalf, he's going to get the ball. I kind of expect a little bit of resurgence. Not old Aaron Rodgers, but better than he was with the Jets. So just by virtue of being a number one receiver and likely being more healthy, I'm going to say DK Metcalf.

A (20:07)

Yeah, I. You make good cases both here. I going to lean ever so slightly towards Mike because oh, there's a big one. But did you listen to me at the top of the show? I think you can count me as a skeptic friend. Now here's the. Here's the tiebreaker for me. Aaron Rodgers is not the Aaron Rodgers of half a decade ago. Obviously we understand that. The one thing that he does do still is he goes at his favorite target over and over and over again. DK Metcalf is the clear cut best option in Pittsburgh. He is going to get such a high volume of targets every single week, no matter how much the opponent doubles them up or otherwise. DK Metev is going to consistently get 8 to 12 targets a game. That's reason enough for me to ride with him. And thus ends our experiment called angel and Devil. The debut. I for one, enjoyed it. Guys, please don't fight. Wait, wait, wait. No, guys, please fight. All right. I'm real excited about this one for any number of reasons and it may get a little contentious. I just have to say that out of the gate. Either way though, I feel like his great playing career is getting a little overshadowed at this point, I mean, he's a Pro Bowler, he's a Super bowl champion, but all anybody talks about is Ryan Clark buzzing about all things NFL on espn, NFL Live. You see him on Monday Night Football. And the pivot is dynamite stuff. And a real good, real good tee up for college football fans right now with Marcus Freeman. Make sure you dig in on that really fascinating big range of conversation. It gets pretty deep and gets very funny as well. Make sure you're checking out the pivot. I'm talking, of course, about, I would say, one of my two favorite Pittsburgh Steelers as a grownup.

B (22:02)

Whoa.

A (22:03)

Right. It's Ryan Clark. How are you, fella?

B (22:05)

Man, good. How you doing? Listen, that's a. That's a big deal. I was having the conversation with somebody about that the other day, about how being a Pittsburgh Steeler keeps you so humble, you know, like, you can. You can accomplish some cool things, and, you know, you can play good ball. People can think that you're a good football player, win a Super bowl, be a Pro Bowler. And then you walk in the hall and Mel Blunt was there, or Joe Green was there, or God rest his soul, Franco Harris is there. And then you realize, like, wait, I haven't done a damn thing right. You think about all the greats, all the hall of Famers, all the people that really laid the foundation for what Steeler Nation truly is. And getting to see them all the time, getting to talk to them, touch them, Joe Green walking the hallways, man, it truly is just a different organization, and it allowed you to really have respect for the people that came before you and truly laid the foundation.

A (23:07)

Boy, rich stuff. I can't wait to talk about this current edition of the Pittsburgh Steelers in just a second. And we were talking before you joined Ryan, I was introducing a couple of people here behind the glass who hadn't seen or didn't remember your Collision with Willis McGahey. I still hold it up. I know we've talked about it a million times before, but. But it is perhaps the signature moment of the greatest rivalry this millennium is after Troy Palomalu houses the ball to send you guys to the Steelers. You turned out Willis McGahey's lights. I've said it before. You were Balboa. He was Creed at the end of Rocky 2. You barely got to your feet at the nine count. He didn't get up.

B (23:45)

It's all over.

A (23:46)

The Steelers are heading to the Super Bowl. That's.

B (23:48)

Man. One of my best friends. One of my best friends called me after, and he used to call me PI for some reason, like, it. It went through this whole thing, but he started calling me Private Ryan. He's like, private Ryan, you won. He was like, you got up first. That means you won. And I think back to that, though, it actually wasn't very intelligent to even do it because we were going to win the game. You know what I mean? I couldn't even really celebrate the win in the way I was supposed to, because I wasn't even all there. But I think it's those moments, man, that keep us all so tight. Got to see Max Keisel, bmac when I went back to training camp. And when you go through those sorts of things with people, the connection and the connectivity between you guys lasts forever. Like, it truly is a brotherhood, which is a overused word, I think, when we talk about sports. But in Pittsburgh, it was different.

A (24:37)

You're gonna. You're gonna drag me in RC into talking about the night before Super Bowl 43. And you guys, all the defense stayed up all night and all the rest of it. And then number seven saved the day. Didn't he? He say the day with that last drive. Well, we'll get to the current Steelers in just a minute. I. I do have. I hate to do this, but you did it to yourself. Really? I didn't do it. A few weeks back, flipping through summertime social media and Ryan Clark, he announces, okay, people are doing picnics and whatever. This time, I don't. I'm not a coleslaw fan. You're not going to hear Dave Danishek go for anything mayo, you know, specific kind of thing. I'm not going to. I'm not going to stick my neck out and try and defend mayo. Yeah, that's okay. Right? So. Okay, so you're not a mayo fan. Right.

B (25:25)

But here's the thing. I like mayonnaise on a sandwich. A light.

A (25:29)

I mean, coleslaw. Coleslaw, Yeah. I like spread of it. Yeah.

B (25:32)

Coleslaw is terrible.

A (25:33)

Okay.

B (25:34)

Like, coleslaw is actually a useless food. It is one of the most unnecessary things that anyone has ever thought to themselves, let me cook this and use this. And the fact that people put it on other things that could otherwise be good if you wouldn't put coleslaw on it to just ruin it. I just think, like, there are certain things that just shouldn't be. And I don't know if somebody was bored when they made coleslaw. I don't know if they just didn't have enough money to go find some food that should be Edible and just threw some things together. But yeah, I have tried to eat coleslaw once and I never will again.

A (26:15)

Well, like, yeah, we don't need the NFL's new rivalries uniforms. We don't need those. We don't need the Anaheim Ducks. I agree. There are things that exist that.

B (26:23)

How did Anaheim Ducks catch a straight.

A (26:26)

Well, we don't need them. I mean, it's in Southern California. We need two NHL teams. Come on now. Now, listen to the matter at hand. Coleslaw. That's fine. You don't want to like it. That that's your business. But then your fancy friends, I, Scott Van Pelt and Dan Orlovsky, start jumping in and attacking pramantes and saying that they don't like the coleslaw. Okay. I felt like this is what I wanted to get to. I felt like you maybe got caught up with your fancy friends and like. Yeah, you're right. Svp. Oh, Dan. Oh, Art. Once again. And I was like, is Ryan Clark coming down on the cold on the prominent. Because. Because you understand, it's not the mayo based. It's the nice vinegar based. It's like an Asian sloth.

B (27:14)

Dave Demichek, I'm going to share something on your show that I should probably be embarrassed to share.

A (27:21)

Oh, no.

B (27:22)

Of the Clark household, there's only one Clark that lived in Pittsburgh for eight years and never ate at Bramante Brothers.

A (27:33)

Oh, my goodness.

B (27:34)

And that would be me.

A (27:36)

Oh, 25. Okay. The bottom line is I want to give you a chance. I mean, now you owe two apologies to the everybody on the banks of the three rivers. Okay. It was a bad day for you. Yes. And a bad year that somehow you didn't have that. Okay, see, this, what I'm calling it, though, going forward is Cole Slaughtergate. That's. That's what it is. Slaughter.

B (28:02)

So here. So here's the thing. We have a Monday night game there this year. The hotel we stayed in is walking distance from Primanes. Actually, I have a picture in primaries from last year. I just went in there to take pictures before the game because the line was too long and I didn't want to cut people. I will when I get in town on Sunday, sit have a Fermani brothers sandwich, and I will give the world sort of my review of how excellent that sandwich is.

A (28:32)

Me, you, and your new friend Aaron Rodgers. The three of us go, go over there. I'm sure he's never had it either. First though, I. Before we talk about.

B (28:40)

I'm say this, I'm gonna say this, that. There's a lot of people who I felt like were excited to see me in camp. And then there was one I. And it's cool, though, like, strangely enough, made me respect him, that, you know, I hit Bert up because we were coming to campus, right? And I was like, look, because I can say it here, like, I have nothing against dude. Like, you know, he's fine. And I was like, man, I love to sit with him. I was like, you know, I'm part of the history there. He's the quarterback with our team now. I actually don't dislike him, you know, Like, I want to sit with him, welcome him, welcome him to Steeler Nation, and just kind of have a conversation. I didn't want to have a conversation about that. I wanted to talk about his career. I said over and over again, he's the best quarterback I ever played against. He declined. I think, you know, he had other things to do, which I respected. But when we're pulling up to campus, right, he's talking to Arthur Smith, like, when we're going up the hill. And so I'm like, well, like, for me, if I truly don't have an issue with you, I'm going to speak to you. Like, I'm going to say hello. Like, that's. It's rude not to, in my opinion, you know. And so he was talking to Arthur Smith. I rolled. I talked to some of the guys I see coming from, like, I think special teams meeting. I roll the window down, I was like, what's up, guys? You know, Arthur Smith kind of speaks. Aaron Rodgers looks at me, and he doesn't say anything, you know, But I respected it because he was like, I'm not going to be fake, you know, for whatever he feels or whatever it is. He's like, that's not someone that I fool with in that way, and I'm not going to fake it. And I think it, you know, it set the tone that, hey, you and I don't talk. You know what I'm saying? And so when I was on the field, like, I had to say nothing to him. He didn't say anything to me. But I did, you know, I did get a good chuckle out of it. You know, Channing thought it was funny. Fred thought it was funny. He was like. There was like, damn, man. He didn't even acknowledge it. And I was like, you know, that's better than it being an issue.

A (30:53)

Yeah, I mean, I kind of appreciate the, you know, being his genuine self, I suppose. And by the way, I also respect it because I'm a chip on the shoulder kind of guy too. And Kobe was that guy too. Like he remembered, oh, you said bad about me. And now, you know, Manning was. There are. There is a percentage of guys a lot everybody loves to say, oh, I don't hear what people say on social media. And then there are a few guys who do and then they, they holster it and they hold onto it for the rest of their lives. I kind of respect it. Okay, let's talk about Tomlin then. And what is going to be an Aaron Rodgers the swap essentially for Justin Fields trading places between the start of last season and this season. First question I wonder is if Aaron Rodgers will carry the American flag bout onto that field again like he did two years ago. But more importantly, sincerely, what happens if the Steelers lose to Justin Fields and the jets in Week one? I think that this is a massive game to start the season. Then I really don't know where they go from there. If they were to.

B (31:53)

Yeah, yeah, I think, I think this team needs to start fast, period, though, right? Like they're, they're still. There's always going to be questions about Mike Tomlins teams and the lack of success in the playoffs. You're going to have that. And we've also seen sort of this trend of this team starting hot, starting fast and then tailing off toward the end of the season. If you were unable to sign Justin Fields, if you held out in the draft because you knew Aaron Rodgers was joining the team in minicamp and it doesn't work early, you lose to the team that now has the quarterback who you, you know, you essentially benched last year for Russell Wilson, then I think the chatter does start, but I just don't like to where I am. I just don't feel that there is a win for Aaron Rodgers and Mike Tomlin and the Pittsburgh Steelers in the sense of the entire season. If this team doesn't make it to the AFC Championship, there are going to be people that say this is a failure. Right. If this team doesn't win a wild card game, it's going to be difficult to win the AFC North. They're stacked as Baltimore is. There's going to be a ton of negativity surrounding this team whenever there's a loss, whenever there's a setback, whenever Aaron Rodgers doesn't play well, if there ever seems like dissension between coach and player. And so I think they're going to be one of the most highly or more highly scrutinized team in the league. But if you lose that game, at least Pittsburgh centric, the sky will be falling.

A (33:24)

I mean, yeah, I think it is. I know I'm talking what sounds like hyperbole. I really don't know where they go from there because the fall out will be so bad by Monday morning in Pittsburgh. For what that matters. Let's talk.

B (33:36)

It'll be good for him, though, if they lose. If they. It's never good to lose a game. Right. But that will show them exactly what Aaron Rodgers, Mike Tomlin leadership looks like. You understand what I'm saying? Like. Like what? What Aaron Rodgers shows up to the postgame press conference. How does he protect his teammates? How does he protect Arthur Smith? How does he show from a leadership standpoint the sort of ownership that says, hey guys, this one was on me. I have to be better because Aaron Rodgers has that cachet. Dave. Right. If Aaron Rodgers says this one is on me, that ain't going to stop. How quickly this Taylor puts together this gold jacket he gets in five years after he retires. And so if he could show some of those things in the loss, I think that goes a long way for that team. Who could find ways to win games. They're going to be great defensively. And I watched him throw a football, and I still let me really recalibrate me think about this. He threw some footballs that were the best footballs I ever saw thrown on those fields.

A (34:48)

Wow. In 2025. And it's funny because whatever it's been now 15 years, I remember talking to you and Ike Taylor and Detroit Polamalu individually. You guys weren't agreeing with each other. These were separate conversations. And each of you said the same. The fastballs that he threw against you In Super Bowl 45, your reactions were all like, whoa, how did that ball get by me? I thought I had a beat on it. It's striking that you say that 15 years later. But now we're at this place where the name brand of Rogers is probably, probably outstrips the talent that's going to be out there. His ability with his. With his legs and otherwise. It's not the whip, it's the legs that concern me with Rogers at this age. But let's talk about Coach T here. And you know, the pivot does as good a job as any show out there this millennium of sort of getting under the helmet, as they say, and making the football players and all the people you talk to three dimensional human beings. And so you're keen on making that connection. And with Mike Tomlin, I Feel like my senses from a distance. Is that for all of his admirers and for Cam Hayward, who will say, you know, Mike Tomlin's the best, and Aaron Rodgers, I want to be with Aaron. I want to be with Mike Tomlin because he's as good as it gets and all of that. It feels like the compliments that he gets from his players and otherwise are more about like, he looks you in the eye when he tells you bad news. You know, he respects you. He tells you what's going on, even if it's not something you want to hear and all of that kind of stuff, which is great and admirable.

B (36:28)

But.

A (36:28)

But is he, at this point in 2025, a ball knower on the level of Andy Reid and KOC and all those guys, I'm a little concerned about. He's a defensive mind in the age of quarterbacks or superheroes.

B (36:46)

Yeah. But I think it's disrespectful to not include Mike Tomlin in the ball noir category with guys like Koc who ain't been to.

A (36:59)

Totally fair. Totally fair. But do you know what I mean about offense versus defense?

B (37:03)

Yeah, like, that's a. Yeah, like, I just. I just think. I just think that's a disrespectful even comparison. Right. Cause what you're essentially saying that is if you don't know offense, you don't know football. Right. Because you mentioned. Cause you mentioned koc like, this is a. This is a quarterback sort of driven league now. Right. And I don't know that it's not always been that. I think because of the rule changes, it's become more of that. That you got to have. You got to have that guy. But, you know, it also makes you look really smart offensively if you just get a really good football player.

D (37:42)

Well.

A (37:42)

Right. Is it. I mean, yeah, it's not a. It's not a fluky coincidence that the teams that are always in the postseason happen.

B (37:49)

Yeah. You know, and so. And don't get me wrong, though, like, no disrespect to koc. Josh Dobbs played good for two weeks. We've seen Nick Mullins play good for a week. Kirk Cousins had career years there. Sam Darnold is revitalized there. So I'm in no way taking away from what he can do offensively. That's just not where ball lies, I think, you know, and I pose this question very often, right. You go back to the Killer Bees team, right. And when I look at the Killer B's, like, that's the first time I go or that's the one moment I'm like, Coach T. He underachieves there, right? Like that team had the talent. Like Jacksonville is not supposed to walk into Pittsburgh as good as they were on defense. They're not supposed to walk into Pittsburgh and win that game, which people don't remember. If not for a missed call on Miles Jack, that team might go to the super bowl and beat New England, which Tom Brady says was a bad call. But then I look at some of these other teams and I've talked to players that go, those other teams actually weren't that good. Those teams shouldn't have been playoff teams, Right? And so where we hold Mike Tomlin to this higher standard because of where he coaches, because of how quickly he won a championship, I think some of the teams that he has coached has overachieved. And so he's definitely an extreme ball noer. You know, that's the word we're using. He has an. An infinite amount of football intellect built on wisdom and experience and also football intellect built on knowledge. I just think you got to be your best as a team when it's most important. And the thing that scares you, right. Or the thing that starts this conversation is in the playoffs when everything is dialed up a little bit. How do the teams play so badly? How do you play so far away from what we saw during the season? And that's something he has to answer for. That's something that he has to reckon with. But to say that Coach Tomlin isn't as intelligent as these other coaches, I would be disingenuous to agree with that from this standpoint. We never won a game in a way he said we could. We couldn't win it. Or in a way he said. Or in a way that. Or in a way that didn't. Wasn't congruent with how he said we can win it. And we never lost one that way either. If we lost it, we knew how we could lose it. If we won it, we knew how we could win it. And when we went into the film room, it was never. Coach T. Didn't tell us that. I wasn't prepared for that. I didn't think that was a way I could lose it. I never thought to myself, I didn't think that this play would work. I didn't think that this coverage was a good coverage because knew going into the game it was.

A (40:38)

Listen, I'm not trying to be glib about Mike Tomlin. I was being cute with. Is he a ball knower I guess what I'm talking about is philosophically, the approach to winning games 12 to 11 in the age of the QB is, is at least a distinct way to win games.

B (40:58)

Yeah.

A (40:58)

Right. Now, I think, I think, you know.

B (41:01)

I mean, I think, I think certainly.

A (41:03)

Right.

B (41:03)

Yeah. I think the other thing we have to pay attention to, to Dave is one of, in my opinion, the other best coaches of this era was a special teams coach and he coaches in Baltimore.

A (41:16)

Right, right. That's interesting. Right.

B (41:18)

You know, I could give you. I could give you a hint of why his team's really good now if.

A (41:24)

You'D like some help. That coincidence that we weren't, that we were just talking about there. So that transitioned us to here. By the way, I think Coach T's good. Pal McDonough, I think is kind of, you know, he's obviously propped up by Josh Allen. And you've talked. McDermott, McDermott. I said McDow. McDermott. I talked to your Palmina Kimes about this and now I bring it. I bring the same thing to you. Now, you know that she can get distracted by the analytics and say, like, we can't put too much weight on these limited sample sizes that are the playoffs, these big spot games. I contend that we're ignoring shared reality. If Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson don't need to get a Lombardi to be held up on the very short list of all time greats, how say you and which one do you think ultimately will, or do you think both of them will break through or will neither ever get that Lombardi Trophy?

B (42:22)

I mean to say neither one of those dudes wins the Lombardi seems, it would seem, almost delusional.

A (42:31)

But getting there. They're getting towards 30, both of them, you know, but.

B (42:34)

But it's possible, you know, Dan Marino, who was obviously extremely good very early, had an opportunity early, didn't have that opportunity again. And it wasn't that he couldn't play. Jim Kelly goes to four, doesn't win one. Warren Moon never wins a Super Bowler. So, yeah, it's possible. I think it also is made possible by the fact that the greatest quarterback of this era plays in the same conference. Right. And you can't say that when Josh played, I think it was 20. What was it? 20, 21, the 13, second game, divisional playoff game. Can't say Josh Allen didn't show up for that game or Josh Allen didn't do what he was supposed to do on his end to get the Buffalo Bills into the AFC Championship. Patrick Mahomes just did More. And so I think. I think there's always that piece of it. I believe that they both win a Super bowl at some point. I think the Ravens right now on paper are the best team in football. I believe in the playoffs right now. I believe in Josh Allen more than I believe in Lamar Jackson. I do think after the two early turnovers last year to the Bills, that Lamar Jackson was the best player from that point on the rest of the game. I think if Mark Andrews catches that ball, we're maybe having a different conversation. But because Mark Andrews doesn't catch the ball, I have to pay attention to the sack that demar Hamlin makes. And you put the ball on the ground, it's picked up by Von Miller. I have to pay attention to the overthrow in the post corner that gives the football back to the Buffalo Bills. And so I believe they both have an opportunity to win it. I think one of them does for sure. I can't say that both of them win it because there's so many players that have to go through one another.

A (44:21)

Yeah, the math doesn't work out as long as they only give out one Lombardi at the end of every season. The math doesn't work out for Stroud and Herbert and Dak and everybody else.

B (44:30)

Yeah, not even that. Like, you also like one. You have to go through the gauntlet of getting there in the afc, but then you gotta beat the other team who's probably going through less than what you've gone through. You know what I mean? Like, if you win a Super bowl and you're Lamar Jackson and you beat Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes on the way there, it's like being Frank Dukes and Nakumate. And now you finally got to the championship in. In bloodsport and freaking old boy's over there shaking his head like that. You know what I mean? Like, it's. It's just difficult to win those games.

A (45:00)

You don't have to tell me about bloodsport, but yes. Okay, so as we transition. Last question about movies and that. That to me is why the playoffs are so great in the NFL versus seven game series and all the other major sports is. It's. It's a little unfair. But the pressure that Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen surely feel out on that field of, like, look at everything I've done now. I got to make a play on this one. It is. They're human beings ultimately. And like I say it almost, you know, do you want to look at the 15 years of my career or that one play? Hey, fair not that people are going to look at. Okay. I said to you right as we got going here, I think you could successfully leave football talk and just focus on movies based on your off season. The last question is because it seemed like you focused in on tear jerkers all through the off season. What is the saddest movie Death Ryan Clark has ever seen?

B (45:51)

Whoa, saddest.

A (45:53)

I think I have the right answer.

B (45:59)

Thomas J. Was tough. Yeah, Thomas J. Was a hard one. And I'm forgetting his last name right now. But Augustus in Fault of Our Stars was a very. That was a very difficult death for me to handle, simply because I had built myself up for an hour and a half to handle her death because she was, like, the sicker one. And then they took him from me. As a kid, the hardest was Ricky from Boyz n the Hood.

A (46:34)

That was a tough one. That was very sad. He had the whole world in front of me. He was about to be NFC superstar, be a tailback, you. And it was all taken away from him.

B (46:41)

Made the greats. Yeah. So, man, there's so many deaths, bro, that are just. That'll just.

A (46:45)

Well, let's start a movie show so we can deep dive this as our first subject there. But I do want to plant Apollo Creed. He showed up for an exhibition that night, and Drago had mal. Intent. And. And I mean, manslaughter at least should be the charge. I. I know you watch Terms of Endearment. Deborah Winger's death. Was that. I think the correct answer is Ellie. And up that first 20 minutes.

B (47:08)

Oh, that's tough.

A (47:08)

That's the saddest thing that, that, that.

B (47:10)

You know, that's a tough one. And he loved her so much. Yeah, so much. You watch a lot of animated movies?

A (47:18)

Well, of course. Yeah. We, you know, the kids. The last, you know, 18 years, I've watched primarily animated movies, so.

B (47:25)

Well, so about four years ago, I went on an animated movie tour as well. I just sat down and turned on Disney and, like, for weeks, just watched animated movies. That was a good ride. This off season was sad movies. I don't really know where this thing is going, you know, but I do get a ton of my analysis from watching movies because, like, the movies sort of relate to real life, which relate to football at times, you know, so, you know, maybe we'll. I'll pop in, like, once a month and we could just do movie talking.

A (47:58)

Yeah, I don't care about. There are plenty of people who. Oh, I know this about football. It's. I mean, like, football is this Team's gonna win. No, no, that team's gonna win. Movies require more depth, and I think, yeah, we should do that.

B (48:11)

Let's do it.

A (48:12)

I find the dad in Frozen real problematic. The parents.

B (48:17)

So I gotta go back to that one. I haven't watched Frozen in a while.

A (48:20)

Well, the one daughter shoots the other daughter in the heart with ice, and it, like, almost kills her. And it's like, oh, my God, what are we gonna do? One sibling on the other. What should we do? Like, let's take. Let's take him to the Troll and see what he thinks. Like, what? That. What that.

B (48:36)

Hey, here's the thing. In animated world, parenting is a very difficult deal. You know, like, you got to think about it. Fiona's father and mother knew she was an ogre by night, yet was mad when she came home with Shrek. You know, like, hey, it's just part of life.

A (48:52)

You're right. Maybe the animated life is tougher than real life. Maybe.

B (48:56)

Yeah. Hey, because common sense ain't a cartoon.

A (49:00)

25. You're the best, man. You really are.

B (49:04)

Thank you so much.

A (49:04)

Love seeing all your success out there, man. We still thank you, brother. And Mina Kimes in a booth together, that's the dream for me. But love seeing all the success, man.

B (49:12)

My man. Thank you.

A (49:13)

Happy for you. Thank you for. Enjoy those Steelers.

B (49:16)

Yes, sir.

A (49:17)

There he goes. Number 25, Ryan Clark, everybody. What a guy. Am I right? Mike Fuentes, your thoughts?

D (49:25)

Yeah. I mean, I didn't expect him to have such a, you know, such a feel for movies like he did. I mean, you know, he nominated a great, you know, sad death from the movie up, which, of course, was brutal for anybody who watched that. But I have a nominee myself, and I'm gonna say Irwin Wade and Saving Priorion. That's the medic character that's played by Giovani. Giovanni calls for it.

A (49:46)

There are a lot of sad deaths in that movie. But he's calling for his mama.

D (49:50)

Yeah, they're like. They're trying to give him treatment, and he's bleeding because he has shrapnel, and he's calling for his mom. And then earlier, he had shared a story about how he used to pretend to fall asleep so he wouldn't have to talk to his mom.

B (49:59)

Oh, brutal.

D (50:00)

Brutal scene.

A (50:01)

My two very sad.

C (50:02)

The obvious one, Bruce Willis at the end of Armageddon, and then Maggie at the end of Million Dollar Baby ripped.

A (50:07)

My heart blowing up the moon or.

B (50:11)

Whatever the hell he did.

A (50:12)

All right, listen, I had to. I had to make a choice. Tough cuts were made, just like NFL teams. To start the week, I wanted to get into Clemson, lsu, but I thought movie talk was more important. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you enjoyed the entire episode. Make sure you keep on listening and watching, downloading on YouTube. Subscribe there. Subscribe wherever you find your audio podcast. We'll be back in one week and then in two weeks we go to two shows a week. Just in time for the regular season. Until then, thanks so much football Americans. It's been a thin slice of heaven.