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The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Alley Oop 10 | Tatum’s Achilles & OKC Is The Perfect Team w/ Amin & Izzy
00:26:15
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Transcript74 lines
- [00:01]
Juju
It sounds like Jonathan Minga. Get ready to learn New Orleans Pelicanese. Yo, what's up, my brothers? How y' all feeling, man?
- [00:19]
Izzy
Great, juju, great.
- [00:22]
Amin
Happy to be here.
- [00:24]
Juju
Hell yeah, man. I always like to start this out giving out flowers, little rose petals here and there. Amin, my brother, we. Where would I be in this industry without you, bro? You always show love to me. Walk, give me, walk me through the ropes, show me the ropes and like, introduce me to friends of yours that I couldn't believe I have relationships with now. So, brother, I want to thank you in front of the world for always being there to support me and salute to you always, sir.
- [00:51]
Amin
I introduce him to Brad Williams.
- [00:56]
Juju
A relationship I would cherish forever. And Israel, brother, like, you always hit me up in times where I'm, I'm doubting myself or it's like you have a radar, you dig? Like you'll give me a call and pick me right up out of that slum, my man. Like, I'll be sitting here doubting myself like, damn, man, I'm not good enough or I'm not this, or people don't like me or whatever the case is. And here come my dog, Izzy just hit me up just with a check in call. Let that be a message out there too, like, check on your friends, dog. Cause sometimes that check in be all they need to get their life right back on the track, bro. So it' thank you always for the, the call and check in. They mean more to me than you know. You feel me?
- [01:38]
Izzy
My pleasure, man. I know I've been in your spot. I'm always in your spot. So I know what it's helpful to just talk about it.
- [01:44]
Juju
Hell yeah, brother. But we got a lot of. We got a lot of basketball to talk about, man. These playoffs are running rampant right now. Jason Tatum, Achilles pop. Oh, the pop heard around the world and scraped through my damn heart as a Celtics fan was what do y' all think the future now looks like in Boston? Not even just this playoff series, but moving forward to next year.
- [02:08]
Amin
Well, I mean, I think the big thing juju is already there were question marks, right? We were already before, before the, the Celtics went down 3:1 in a series. Now 3:2 now with a Jason Tatum ruptured Achilles. That changes everything because it's like, all right, we're definitely not going to be probably championship contention worthy next year. I know they're, they're going to give it their best this year, but the reality is the east has gotten better over time. And losing an MVP caliber player like Jason Tanner, you just can't just recover from that. And you're paying the highest payroll in the league. So I think they're going to have to make some. Some hard decisions. And then, like I said, hard decisions that were already on the way but kind of accelerated by this injury.
- [02:58]
Izzy
You know what this reminds me of, Juju? It reminds me of the 2019 warriors, right? They had so many deep runs into the playoffs, and then they just physically were falling apart. Kd, Klay Thompson. And they had to take a step back, the warriors as a whole. Yes. KD left. And, you know, with this team, maybe you move on from Jaylen Brown, maybe you don't, but you can still sort of. It's not. It's like a breather. It's a little bit of a reset. Yeah, you do a little, you know, change a couple of pieces here and there, but know that your main guys effectively need like a year to breathe. Like, that's what it is. Need a year to, like, take off the. The championship pressures and physically to take off the physical pressures and then sort of reset, sort of come back refreshed in 26 and see, you know, maybe a couple new pieces. But they know the formula can get them championships the same way the warriors did. And, you know, they came back and won it in 2022 with different pieces around Stefan Draymond and Clay.
- [03:52]
Juju
Hell yeah, bro. Speaking of pieces, I got to give a shout out to one of the biggest pieces in Boston Celtics lure right now. Luke Cornett. My brother, you got my heart and soul. You feel me, brother?
- [04:05]
Izzy
You know about soul? I don't know about soul.
- [04:08]
Juju
Okay. He got my heart. I can't give you the soul yet, but I don't know, I was looking at him like, damn, young Bill Russell out there tonight. Google him. But yeah, man, look, the surrounding pieces in. In Boston right now, they definitely are. Should, in my op, be all a little bit worried about their future in Boston just because of what you're saying? Because, like, you say, like, the. The money was not necessarily going to be there next year. Now with Jason Tatum injured, do you guys think there are any. Any kind of sweepstakes for any kind of. I want to say, Yanis, I don't want to say. You know what I mean? Like, who could they get or what could they do?
- [04:46]
Amin
I think the injury kind of messes things up, though, right? Because now it's like, so it's. No one's going to want to trade for the hurt guy, right?
- [04:53]
Izzy
Go there and wait a Year, right. For Jason, or you're not going to want to trade for him, like you said, right?
- [04:58]
Amin
And then the other one is like, so if they trade Jalen Brown now, it's like, okay, so you just really punting on the year in a way that I don't know if that city is kind of accustomed to having a kind of punt, right? Because let's be honest, without Jason T, I don't think they're championship team, but they're good enough. I think they're good enough to win, you know, 45 to 50 games, make it to the playoffs and all that. And then who knows, maybe because he's young, he rehabs faster and he can get back in time for a playoff push. So it just, it kind of makes things a little bit uncomfortable in that way. But let me ask you this, Juju. Had he not gotten hurt, let's just assume they would have lost to the Knicks in this, in this round, even if he was healthy. And, and I'm the owner. I come to you, Juju. You, you're the gm. You're Brad Stevens. And I said, hey, man, you going to have to break this up. I don't care which one you send out, one of them got to go.
- [05:52]
Juju
Who do you send out as I'm unfortunately sending out my brother, jb, you dig? It's according to the piece I'm getting back. If I'm getting back a Giannis caliber or someone of that caliber. Jb, my brother's been real. I think it's time for you to shine somewhere else. But if I'm getting just, I don't know, whoever out there, just someone to compliment Jason Tatum, I don't know if I would do it. I. I would like to run it back with this squad, probably minus Christ Porzingis. I think he's out of here regardless.
- [06:26]
Izzy
Really? You don't think that his uniqueness is enough to want them to keep him to stay and maybe, you know, let him stay? Maybe he plays, you know, 70 games next year.
- [06:34]
Juju
Maybe it's a bit worried, like with this mysterious illness that he's going through. I think he had like one point in the last game versus the Knicks in the playoffs. I think he's been hurt more than he's been available. And you know what the biggest ability is in the NBA.
- [06:50]
Izzy
Because if he can't do that, he can't play.
- [06:53]
Juju
Right? You can get something for him. I think you should shop him at least. Golden State warriors tried to rebuild it this year with quote unquote, playoff Jimmy. I have never seen a regression quite as regressible as, quote, unquote, playoff. Jimmy. I think he. How many shots he took? Like, eight. Eleven shots.
- [07:13]
Amin
Eleven?
- [07:14]
Izzy
Eleven in the last one.
- [07:15]
Juju
Like, what is that? Can y' all explain that? Do y' all have any idea what that was?
- [07:21]
Amin
I'm gonna let Izzy go first because he's got a hot take on this one.
- [07:25]
Izzy
Well, look, we've known that. We've known this is. Look, if he would have done that in a Miami uniform this year, everybody would have said, look, he's not trying. He's clearly trying to get out of here, okay? And I. I don't really care if you're telling me he had an illness. He's on the floor. He looks okay. You know what I'm saying? If you're gonna tell me his butt was hurting, I'm pretty sure they can shoot you up and you'll be fine. Like, it wasn't just that he wasn't doing. When he was dribbling, he wasn't looking to score half the time. He was just kind of going to the middle of the floor and just looking around and trying to find somebody. And I told people when he got there in San Francisco, there's going to be at least a dozen times where you're going to scratch your head and be like, why didn't you take that shot? As you were flying by the rim, you're not even looking at it. If he was Ben Simmons, you would say, something's wrong with that dude, right? So the idea that there's nothing. Nobody would have said anything to him. If he went out there and took 40 shots, even if he went 10 for 40, it would have been like, damn, he went out shooting his bullets, and, you know, we ended up where we ended up. But he was just sitting there, like, almost as if he was trying to make a point. Sometimes I'm running offense, can't do anything without Steph Curry, and, like, I don't know if that's how he was thinking. My guess is, yeah, he wanted to win, but he just wasn't showing it. And so it's one of those situations where my eyes aren't lying to me. Like, I know when people are really taking, like, ownership and accountability and trying their hardest to. To win, it didn't feel like he was taking ownership.
- [08:56]
Juju
Not at all.
- [08:57]
Amin
Juju. My counterpoint is, why aren't we giving any credit to the Timberwolves for having a great game plan?
- [09:04]
Izzy
But this is what I'm saying. I mean, if he goes 10 for 40. Good defense. He tried. You know what I'm saying? Like, I get it was good defense, but Jimmy seemed good defense. Jimmy was the number one option at the Miami Heat. He's seen people, you know, scheming for him defensively in the playoffs, and he still put a 50 against the Bucks.
- [09:22]
Juju
That's true.
- [09:23]
Amin
I think. I think the best defense is not making you miss shots. The best defense is when you don't take the shot to begin with. And that's what. That's kind of what the Timberwolves did. They. They.
- [09:32]
Izzy
But okay, my counter to that is it. Was it great defense that was making him just walk to the free throw line and look around? Was that great defense? Because I didn't see him attack the defense.
- [09:43]
Juju
That was my problem too, bro. Like. Like you say, bro, at least try hard, throw up some air balls, shoot a ball over the basket. I would think you care. But to not shoot at all, I don't know what that is. Are you selling tickets? I don't know. Draymond got five, $50,000 for saying, you know what, you know, I mean, salute the draft Kings. But I think that, bro, whenever I think, more importantly, playoff Kaminga was more of a thing than playoff Jimmy. Did Kaminga kind of earn himself money this year for next year or did somewhere else?
- [10:20]
Amin
It'll be somewhere. If he earned somebody, it ain't gonna be a Golden State, that's for sure.
- [10:24]
Juju
And that's crazy to me. Like, what was. What do you guys think? The thinking behind benching Kaminga for so long during these playoffs was like.
- [10:32]
Izzy
Well, it actually is probably the most fair criticism of Steve Kerr, not specifically with Kaminga, but that when he doesn't find players that are not seamlessly but work into his offense, doesn't know what to do with them. And I don't know if that's true or not. You know, you could. We have to wait and see if Kaminga goes somewhere else and realize that, you know, not a great basketball IQ guy, maybe doesn't really have a whole lot in his bag, that maybe he's just, you know, a piece that in the regular season you can play, in the playoffs you can't trust. We don't know that yet, but I will say that was the commonly. The most commonly heard critique of Steve Kurt.
- [11:05]
Amin
So when Steph Curry is out there, they want to play a very specific style of basketball. It operates a lot on feel, on reads. And Kaminga is a guy who hasn't played a lot of basketball in his life, even as A now like a four year player in the NBA and one year in the G League ignite program. He just. He doesn't have the same kind of feel as lesser talented guys that they've been playing out there. So when Steph Curry's out there, they want you to cut certain ways, they want you to screen, they want you to relocate, they want you to do all these things that he doesn't really do that well. With Steph Curry not out there, then you need. You have a need. Like I need someone who could just go get me one. And King, that's why you see him play well, because that more suits him. Now I'm with Izzy, it's not like he's Kyrie out there, but it's like in terms of I'm quick, I got a great first step, and I'm explosive. I get. I get head and shoulders beyond my defender and go finish at the rim. I'm an improving jump shooter, I make shots or whatever. But it's a much like more suited game for him to play kind of traditional basketball the way it's played versus what the warriors are doing. The other part, and this is not his fault for sure, but once they got Jimmy, you're playing Jimmy, you're playing Draymond. They're two non shooters, really. They get. They have their moments, but for the most part, they're non shooters. You play Kamingo with them. That's three of them dudes all at the same time. It gets really, really hard for them to have the spacing they want. So it's just like, it's one of those things where, like, I don't even think. They don't think he's a good player. I think it's just kind of like to quote my man Randy Jackson from American Idol, not. It's just not for me, dog, you know?
- [12:50]
Juju
Right. It sounds like Jonathan Minga. Get ready to learn, New Orleans Pelican Ease. Yo, I know John Halliburton is somewhere waving his flag right now. Victory lapping around Applebee's, Chili's, or wherever he's allowed on the premises these days. Are the Pacers a real contender for the NBA championship this year?
- [13:14]
Izzy
What I think what people don't see with the Pacers is defensively, that can be really good. Like, they play so fast and, you know, Tyrese Halliburton's out there, probably the weakest defender of the group, but with Miles Turner in the middle, Andrew Nemhardt playing Pascal Siakam, like, they have a very strong defense. That if you don't keep up with them and they start going on a little streak, like all of a sudden it's a 15 point, 20 point game. Like they have a little bit of that old Phoenix Suns team in them. Where you look up in the first quarter, it could be 45 to 20, and you just don't know what happened.
- [13:48]
Amin
Like Halliburton, man, I don't know how many people appreciate how much control he has over the game. A lot of times they look at like, oh, what's the score numbers? What's his shooting numbers? He's controlling the game in terms of setting up almost like the pieces on a chessboard call it even when they get the ball out of his hands. If you, if you see, like when teams double Halliburton early to get the ball out of his hands, watch him, he starts pointing like where the ball should be so that I'm going to get it back over here. Like, it's only a handful of guys that in the league that I see do that consistently. Drayvon's another one where he'll start pointing to people, pass it to him, and then he's going to give it over there. So he's still kind of controlling even though he doesn't have the ball in his hands. The thing about the Pacers, though, that I guess I know I hadn't given them as much credit for, I thought last year, like, oh, you did a great job defensively. But then I was like, well, maybe they just locked in for a couple of months. They're really good defensively. Man, they got a lot of dogs on the defensive end and I think that's what gives them an opportunity to win these games. Yes, they push the pace, yes, they could score. But like, the way they're guarding Nemhardt, Ben Shepard, Aaron Neesmith, Benedict Matheran, Miles Turner, like, these guys are all dogs defensively.
- [15:06]
Juju
And Jackson, right, nice Smith, underrated defender.
- [15:12]
Amin
The one that got away.
- [15:15]
Juju
Oh, my goodness. Imagine us with him.
- [15:18]
Izzy
We're all about vibes here. I did want to talk about Miles Turner because a few years ago, like, he was so frustrated, man, the Pacers were just absolutely like middle of the pack. To bad. His people were talking to anybody saying.
- [15:31]
Amin
Every single day, like, like on the wire, right?
- [15:36]
Juju
Slanging little things.
- [15:39]
Izzy
He's asking, like, his people are just like, wonder, wondering, why is he so underrated? Can we get him somewhere else? Maybe get him some attention? And I'm just like, that's a great question. I don't know the answer to that I'm not a gm. And then now he's getting his due, right? He's getting. He's not only is he playing well and they're winning, but you realize, man, this dude is long. Can move, can shoot, can block shots. It's a great modern day big. Whereas before you didn't really know what to do or say with Miles Turner. So shout out to Miles for sticking in there and getting his due eventually, right?
- [16:07]
Juju
Every time I see Miles Turner attempt the three, I'm like, oh, that's water, that's butter. I rarely see him miss A3, no matter how ridiculous it is. So yeah, bro. Salute to Miles Turner, man. And like you say, N. Smith, underrated defender, you can put him on. Donovan Mitchell, you can put him on, I think moving forward Jalen Brunson and just set it and forget it. Like he's going to do a great enough job to where he's going to make your number one option have to struggle. Struggle, man.
- [16:38]
Izzy
Is that Flex Seal? I think it's flex seal.
- [16:44]
Amin
On the boat, right?
- [16:46]
Juju
Salute to Sham. Wow. Yeah. Speaking of wows, the Oklahoma City Thunder versus the right now the Nuggets, they're in a gridlock. What do you think are the Oak Oklahoma City Thunders chances not only versus the Nuggets versus, but versus the Feel like in my opinion they are the, the ones that people have to prepare against.
- [17:08]
Amin
Juju. Since January I've been saying it and we're going to sit here, people are going to sit here and try and figure out reasons why they. They won't win. Yeah, people are searching for reasons why they won't win instead of accept it. Man, they're just the best team in the league, top to bottom. They're. They're deep. They defend, everybody defends. Who's the guy on that team? Even like some of these other teams that we say, oh, they're really good defensively. There's always a guy with like him though. Not him.
- [17:31]
Juju
Yeah, yeah.
- [17:32]
Amin
You can't say that about anyone on Oklahoma City. They're all great.
- [17:35]
Izzy
Isaiah, Joe, maybe, I don't know. No, I'm with you. I'm 100 with you. And I think this is a perfect second round series for them this season. Assuming they can get past it is because, you know the same round they got knocked out last year doing it against the only one left. Right. Because Jason Tatum being out. You can't really go hard of a champion when they're missing their best player. So really the heart of a champion team and, and the Denver Nuggets. And this was an interesting part about that last game, Game five, which I still think this game can go, the series can go seven. But it was a point there in the fourth quarter where it felt like, all right, if this keeps going this way, Oklahoma City is going to have a lot of explaining to do. Like, maybe Shea's overrated, maybe the supporting cast is overrated because neither one of them were overwhelming in any sort of way. In a way that you say for certain, hey, in the playoffs against the best of teams, this is how we're going to win. And then they went and did it. Like the second half of that fourth quarter, it was Shay doing it. And it was, you know, other guys in threes with Lou Dorton, a couple other guys. But for the most part, they reminded themselves or told themselves, hey, if we go to what we know works in the playoffs, it still works. It might not work every time, but it's going to work enough for us to win four out of seven. And I thought that was so critical, such a huge game for them, for their continued growth in game five, that if they win this series, yeah, I absolutely have them as a favorite.
- [18:52]
Juju
I think their post game presses after the game is just such a metaphor for that team. The whole squad pull up. No matter who gets the interview, the whole squad is behind them, putting towel on towel, making fun of the announcer or whatever the case is, dog. Like, they are an actual team. Like, I think that the series before this, I don't know how much Jaylen Williams, the other Jaylen Williams, Jay, whatever, J Dub versus Jay Will. Right, right. I don't know how much playing time he got in the other series. But this series, he's one of the perfect defenders against the joker who you can say, all right, go out and use your files. You feel me? Like, what do you think about the team? I mean, like, like, I think they are like the perfect team.
- [19:36]
Amin
Yeah. And it's like, you know, it's sad. I'm kind of thinking ahead. I'm like, man, I think, you know, obviously I've been saying they're gonna win the title this year, but like, there's a part of me that was like, oh, it's gonna be sad when they have to break it up because, like, at some point like this, what you see right now doesn't have a. Like, in the history of pro basketball or pro sports, really, it don't last forever. And right now it's a feel good story. It's like, this is the irony is this is what you would want people to, like, kind of think of when they think of the NBA, but because they played Oklahoma, everyone's like, oh, boring. Whatever. It's kind of like what happened in San Antonio. Like, the spurs were like, that's what you want the NBA to be about. But just because they were San Antonio, I was like, that's boring. I wonder if the Oklahoma City Thunder were the Dallas Thunder. If they were the Chicago Thunder, like, would we. Would we think of them in a different way? Would we be more excited about them?
- [20:30]
Izzy
I think, look, if you switch teams, Shea Gilgis, Alexander and Anthony Edwards, Oklahoma City Thunder would be the most popular team in the world. I think it's just a matter of playing style. And it's nothing against Shay. Like, it's. It's. If you're a. He's a Hooper, Hooper, man. Like, he knows, like, I. I admire him. It's just not like, I'm not gonna sit down and just watch his game.
- [20:52]
Amin
You sat down and you called him a foul merchant. On the record.
- [20:57]
Izzy
Yo, let's jump sideways. You're jumping sideways, man. You're a foul merchant. Like, those are two. You can. They're not mutually exclusive. You can have all the skill and the ability in the world and still be a foul merchant. Like, I can respect your ability and still say, hey, stop. Stop doing that.
- [21:11]
Juju
Coming this fall, Shay Gild Alexander is the foul merchant.
- [21:17]
Izzy
And be careful, Jaylen Brunson, because you're going to join the list.
- [21:20]
Juju
Be careful, J. Brunson, right? Like, we look. All right, we look at everybody. Love this, this, these segments, but we haven't put enough respect on the Timberwolves efforts. Like you said earlier, like, the Timberwolves, they, they. They did the job. They can only beat who they face. Do you think the Minnesota Timberwolves have a legitimate shot this year moving past the Western Conference finals and actually winning the finals?
- [21:47]
Amin
I mean, when you have a player like Anthony Edwards, like, they look, they have two things. One, that, like the. The Thunder, although not to the same level, they got an elite defense. You start there, it gives you a chance. Then you say, do we have an elite offensive player? Like the type of player who could take over a game not once or twice, but, like, every game in the series, and could put his foot on their neck when it's time. Julius Randall, which is what I'll get. It's Anthony Edwards, right? But also Julius Randle, who. I said on Oddball today, I had to fill out the apology form. I didn't think you could win I didn't think he would execute. I didn't think he could stay within himself long.
- [22:32]
Izzy
They traded a cat for a dog, right?
- [22:35]
Juju
Oh, I like that, bro. The rare. The rare trade that has so far worked out for both sides.
- [22:43]
Izzy
And this part is going to blow. This part's going to make Amin crazy. But if the NBA Finals are that at and T Commercial DiVincenzo vs the Villanova boys in New York, holy cow, that's going to be crazy.
- [22:56]
Amin
Oh, man, I didn't even think about that.
- [22:59]
Juju
What do you see in the potential Wolves vs Knicks finals? What would that look like?
- [23:05]
Izzy
I see an edit where the Wolves win and they're tossing him the Larry o' Brien trophy and he's like, ah, yeah, thanks, guys. Look, that. That's one of the. I would say the league definitely wants the New York Knicks in any capacity to get to the finals, because every other combination, you're just like, we don't like small towns, apparently. But yeah, I. I would. This is what I love about the NBA right now, is like, growing up. And I say growing up. I mean, all the way up until I was about 38, roughly, it was very predictable. Like, you could probably pick four or five teams and say, for certain that's going to be the final. You know, four of those five teams are going to be in the final four. Now you don't even know who the champion is going to be. And I love that. And I love to be able to dissect what that champion did to become that. Because they separated themselves somehow. It wasn't just talent. Like I mentioned, the 2022 warriors, again, that's a team. They were not the most talented team that year. They knew how to win. They were healthy when it mattered. And so if you start combining those formulas every single year, it's just like, hey, the playoffs are just going to be. You don't. You don't really know. And that's what I love about it.
- [24:06]
Amin
If the Knicks and the Wolves make it to the final, the person who should be walking around telling everybody to kiss their ass is Jay Wright. Yeah, I did this. I run your league, basically. No, man. Like, I think, look, it's probably at this point, assuming that the Thunder get past Oklahoma, Denver, it's the most profitable combination you can get. Minnesota being the closest thing to a big market in the west, and then the Knicks not only being a big market, but also being a market where a team where you have a bunch of people that love them, and then a bunch of people can't stand the people who love them. And that's real key. It's the reason why dynasties are so important into the business of sports, because they usually have a lot of bandwagon fans and a lot of people who just hate them for being successful. Well, the Knicks don't have bandwagon fans. They have Knick fans who are a lot of. And those people are annoying enough for you to. Can't stand them even without them winning. So it gives you kind of like a dynasty feel without any of the dynasty pricing.
- [25:17]
Juju
If the Knicks beat the Celtics, I got three words for you. Go, New York. Go, New York. Go. You dig it? Because that's who I would love to see. Like, no matter what the basketball is, them being involved. It's just more fun to watch on TV.
- [25:32]
Amin
You did, but what about the Mr. Overrated? The most overrated guy.
- [25:36]
Juju
Ah, get him out of here. Salute to his dad. I hope you're having fun watching this at Chili's, but yeah, bro, Thank y' all so much for pulling up on the alley oop, man. Thank y' all so much for joining me, man. But yeah, bro, Check out my dogs on eyeball. Every single week, every single day. You can you feel me? Thank y' all so much. And again, like I say, I mean, you mean so much to me. I love you, brother. Saying to you, Izzy, thank you so much. I love you, brother. And catch us on the same channel the same bad time next week. You dig us? La.