D (2:41)

Oh, my dad's hurting my mom.

A (2:43)

Your constituents discarded you like a sack of moldy cheese. They could put me in the street if they want to. You're gonna have to find some other way to pay your legal fees. I wish to go Shangri La, you lying wife beating scumbag. Not gonna lie, Roy. I'm a little emotional. I got a little choked up there. Little tear little for clems got spilkes and my gonepticas Going little overcome with emotion. There it is, the end of an era. Because not only, of course, is Joe Carrillo term limited and leaving office, but his brother Frank Carrillo, who held the District 3 City of Miami Commission seat for the eight years prior to Joe, and then Joe had it for eight years, but he was running again to take over his old seat and his brother, his older brother's seat, and he lost. Frank Carollo lost to a political newcomer, Rolando Escalano. He is the general manager at Sexy Fish, a very famous and successful restaurant, probably one of the highest grossing restaurants in town, if not the country. And he came from Cuba, I think 10, 11, 12 years ago. And he is now not just the city of Miami Commissioner for District 3, the Little Havana neighborhood, but he toppled the Carrillo dynasty. So now in City Hall Miami, there's no Suarez, no Carollo, no Diaz, La Portilla, no He had a Buta. Like no Hardiman. They're all like, there's no, none of these legacy names anymore. And of course we elected a new city mayor. Eileen Higgins, the first female mayor in the history of the city of Miami, toppled Emilio Gonzalez 59% of the vote. She got to Emilio's 41% of the vote.

B (4:55)

Man, it's really too bad that you burnt that bridge there, Billy Dude.

A (4:59)

Our job here in a democracy, we're not in a cult, is to hold people accountable. That's it. We're not, we're not here to make friends. We're here to make sure that we elect decent people and we make sure that they do what they promise to do and help help more people than they harm. And that's certainly not been the case for the last eight years in the city of Miami. I hope that Eileen Higgins will do better. The press all around the world has been crazy for this because not only did we elect our first female mayor in the city of Miami, it's the first Democrat in about 28 years. Even the headline at Fox News is Democrats end 30 year losing streak in Miami as Trump backed candidate falls short. Falls short, dude, by like 19 points.

B (5:48)

So the question is, should Republicans be scared at this outcome?

A (5:52)

This is the question. This is what everybody is. I mean, look at the. The press is a little blown out of proportion. Stunning upset is the headline at the Guardian. Not a stunning upset. The margin is pretty extraordinary. But this was always going this way. There's nothing stunning about this. It was abundantly clear that this was going to happen. You may recall our interview with Emilio Gonzalez last week had the tone of an Autopsy on a living patient. A little. A little bit. It was almost like a postmortem. I was asking him about the strategy of making this such a heavily partizan race. Getting endorsed by Ron DeSantis, getting endorsed by Ted Cruz, getting endorsed by Donald Trump, not a good move. I think Donald Trump really put the last nail in his coffin of that campaign. And you look at some of these other headlines, you know, it's all about the fact that he was the Trump endorsed candidate, Emilio. And the spin is like, oh, Donald Trump is losing his touch. He's losing the Cuban vote. Miami is flipped to Democrat. It's not really an accurate narrative because the city of Miami is different from Miami Dade, which flipped red for the first time in a presidential election last year. I don't think it's really indicative of the way that Florida is going in general. I think there's no doubt that next year, if the economy continues on this trajectory and they continue executing the deportation scheme the way that they have, there's going to be a blue wave nationally. Florida remains, and even South Florida remains somewhat immune to that sanity and reason and logic. I'm remiss to read too much into it. It's definitely a major duty moral victory for Democrats. The Miami Dade Democrats really needed a signature win to help with moribund fundraising. And the statewide party. There's going to be a lot of, like, grifting and fundraising on this whole. You know, Florida is in play 2.0, which was the big lie that the, the Florida Democrats told people last year. But this is very good for morale at the moment for a party that is a dead brand in the state of Florida. Because here's the thing nobody's talking about is that while Eileen Higgins flipped the city, quote, unquote, flipped the city of Miami blue, her departure, her resignation at the county flipped the county commission red. So, like, give a little, get a little. And also remember, we've talked about this a thousand times on this show by charter. The Miami mayor doesn't have a lot of responsibilities. They're effectively a mascot sitting in the head coach's office with his feet on the table, you know, or her feet on the table. It's really a hood ornament position. It's a lot of ceremonial shit, ribbon cutting, passing out keys to the city. But one thing she does get to do is hire a city manager, which means that Art General Manuel Noriega is out the door. And he should have been fired at least two years ago, at least. But this is how the Miami Mafia works. It's mutually assured destruction. They all have dirt on everybody. And if you look out and protect the Miami Mafia, the Miami Mafia will look out and protect you. And that's kind of where, where we are right now. I got to give Eileen Higgins her props and her flowers and give her an opportunity to distinguish herself and what this administration is going to look like. And another runoff race this week that I took a particular interest in was in the city of Miami beach, the commission seat of Monica Matteo Salinas versus Monique Pardo Pope. You remember Monique. Part of your girl, Monique.

B (9:20)

I'm a girl.

A (9:21)

Your girl whose father was a corrupt cop, coke dealing, neo Nazi serial killer. And she tried to keep that from voters during this election cycle. And it was a story that we broke online and right here on the Because Miami podcast. It resulted in her making some telling some defamatory lie about me to the press and a bar complaint against her. So she'll still be an ongoing story, but she is very much not a city of Miami beach commissioner. Monica Matteo Salinas beat Monique Pardo Pope with 71% of the vote. Monique. Monique Pardo Pope. I was never good at that there book learning, Roy. And I didn't know there was going to be math on that new math, but that new math on the show today. But Pope got not quite 29% of the vote. That's 2185 votes versus 5357 votes. This also became a bit of a proxy like partizan battle. Monica being supported by the Democrats, Monique being supported by the Republicans. No kidding. And very much well played, right? Very much a repudiation like what happened on the other side of the causeway in the city of Miami where you had Eileen Higgins beating emilio Gonzalez by 19%. Here you had 71% to 29%. And you had a situation like in the city of Miami, for example, I think it was a plus 7 Democratic turnout, but a plus 19 win for the Democratic candidate. Which means, of course, that Eileen Higgins way overindexed with not just NPAs, but Republicans. Same thing here with Monica Mateo Salinas. She way overperformed. So bottom line is for this runoff election where turnout In Miami Beach 17.71%, you had Republicans who showed up to vote, who was considered the Democratic candidate. So it really is a repudiation of not just the party politics, but Monique Pardo Pope as a candidate herself, absolutely toxic. And I don't have carts in the studio, so I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah, auxiliary studio, the Britney strings. But I want to say this, party politics infecting these municipal nonpartisan races is absolutely toxic. And it's exploitative, too, because the candidates only really take advantage of it to get elected. And once they're there, especially in Miami Dade county, there's no red and blue. It's just green. They are there for their money and their power, and they will do anything to preserve that, including protecting each other with mutually assured destruction. And it really is kind of repulsive to me because particularly in local government, where we really need people focusing on the bread and butter issues, the local issues, the pothole kind of issues that affect our lives all the time. Water and power and sewer and traffic and affordability and the things that just impact us. Like to inject the WWE element of culture wars and party partisan politics. It really doesn't make for better local government. We've seen what it's done on the national level, and it's far less helpful here when it comes to what we need from our local government and what we should expect from it. That said, congratulations to Monica Matteo Salinas, the new Miami beach commissioner. Congratulations to Rolando Escalona, the new city of Miami commissioner who toppled the Corrillo dynasty. And congratulations to Eileen Higgins, the first female mayor in the history of the city of Miami, a city founded by a woman, one of the few major cities in America that was founded by a woman. And of course, the first Democrat to sit in that seat in about 28 years. Holidays, fun holidays. As a dad, tough Travel gifts, matching pajamas. Don't get me started on matching pajamas. It's hot in Miami. My wife says, why don't you want to do this with us? My daughter's crying anyways. School, parties, hosting a family. Next thing I know, I basically put Christmas on my credit card and have no idea what I spent. Where. If you want to keep your finances under control this holiday season, you need to be using Monarch, rated Wall Street Journal's best budgeting app. At 25, Monarch's the All in one personal finance tool that brings your entire financial life together in one clean interface on your laptop or on your phone. Right now, just for our listeners, monarch is offering 50% off your first year, a massive deal. Monarch showed me how fast the holiday budget was disappearing. Flights, gifts, late night online shopping, and helped me pump the brakes before the bill hit. Now my wife and I do quick money check ins. Look at our holiday spending category and actually enjoy the holidays without starting January and the new year in panic. Don't let financial opportunity slip through the cracks. Use code dan@monimalmoney.com in your browser for.

D (14:26)

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A (14:27)

That's 50% off your first year@monimalmoney.com with code DAN. And don't give me those matching pajamas, I swear.

B (14:36)

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A (15:51)

New day, same Miami. Yes, there is a new incoming mayor and city commissioner, but the lawsuits against the city and accusations of malfeasance, civil and criminal, continue. We've got, of course, the ongoing parking tax litigation, which could wind up costing the taxpayers about $114 million for the city allegedly improperly collecting a parking tax. There is the $76 million lawsuit claiming that the city overcharged building permit fees, which just survived, I believe, a motion to dismiss. So that is ongoing. You, of course, have a lawsuit against the city that could bank city. It's the famous ball and chain lawsuit. This is the third one accusing people in the city of weaponizing the government to violate the private property and first amendment rights of private landowners in the city. When you lay it out like this, it sounds pretty, pretty shady, Roy. And now the latest is what I would guess could describe as the city of Miami government being accused of a land theft extortion scheme. Let's clear it up. Chad and Stephanie Troush are suing the city of Miami as homeowners who were just trying to build a little something on their private property. And the city attached certain conditions to that and said, hey, if you want to, you know, you want to make your pretty property look a little prettier, maybe you should give us a little something in return. And now they're suing the shit out of the city. Their attorney, Saranjan Sen of the Institute for Justice, that is ij.org all of them are joining us now. Chad and Stephanie, thanks for being here. I want to start with you. Tell me about what happened here. You were recent transplants to Miami when. And you did what you're supposed to do, right, which is to go to the city to pull a permit down.

E (17:59)

In 2021 from New York, we bought a home with the hopes of growing it to support a growing family. We wanted to have some kids. We wanted to have in laws come down and help with child care. So we bought our home in historic Buena Vista East. We want to do everything by the book. We went through the full historic approval and everything. And we're doing an addition in the back. And then as the last condition, the city said, oh, you have to give us about half of your front yard to get that permit for your addition in the back.

A (18:23)

Okay, Half of your front yard. That's what they asked, right?

E (18:27)

But yeah, like 100 square feet. So 10ft deep from the property line, which is 50ft across.

A (18:32)

Real quick, you were doing this by the book. So you clearly were, you know, looking at, you know, the charter and the ordinances, was this anywhere written that homeowners have to give up some of their private property to the city?

E (18:46)

So with certain conditions and a real and a justification, in our case, there was no justification. We've asked for one over and over and over. Emails, calls, meetings, nothing. Total radio silence. So without any reason to take our land, we thought they shouldn't be taking our land.

A (19:00)

So you said, okay, you're asking for this. What do you need it for? Why do you need. Is that what you sort of said? Follow up question.

E (19:06)

Exactly. What do you need it for? Why? If our addition is totally in the back, why do you need the front? And is there any plan to use this land? And the answer was either no or just complete radio silence on all channels.

A (19:18)

So nothing happens, then you don't get the permit, Is that right? And for how long?

E (19:22)

We got totally frozen. That's right, Billy. We've been in permit purgatory for over a year now. The city is trying to extort our land. They've definitely extorted our time emotionally, too. My wife's had to move in with her parents in South Carolina a few times for child care. She spent time with my parents up in Maine while I've stayed here to work my job, take care of the house and fight this lawsuit.

A (19:41)

Oh, so your hope is to build like an in law quarters or a guest house or something in your backyard for childcare?

E (19:47)

Exactly right. We. We started this project before our baby was born. She's 15 months old now. Congratulations to have an ADU for living support from our in laws or from my parents to help raise the kid and keep the family together.

A (19:59)

Incidentally, a year and a half. Nothing's become cheaper in in this country, particularly in this town with respect to construction. So whatever the. The cost of this project would have been a year and a half ago, it has to be exponentially higher. Now.

E (20:17)

It's gone up by hundreds of thousands of dollars in labor, material, building costs just to be made whole and do the project we originally set out to do.

A (20:25)

It's crazy. Did you get the permit? Have you gotten the permit? Where are you now?

E (20:29)

Not gotten the permit yet. They have released that condition. They put on to give up our land as soon as our lawyer showed up. I started fighting this case totally by myself. Earlier this year, IJ came in, thankfully to support us. And as soon as IJ showed up, the city said, oh, never mind, we don't want the land, and tried to make it go away.

A (20:48)

Perfect segue to your lawyer showing up on the scene, Saranjan. First of all, clearly just your arrival in this situation got the city to change its stance somewhat. But what have you discovered here about this? Again, sometimes these things seem shady and maybe there's an innocent explanation for them. What is it that you have found through this and uncovered here before?

F (21:09)

I answered that the end of your question. If I could just touch on the beginning of it, which was about the circumstances around IJ's involvement in the city's response to that. As Chad said, he filed the lawsuit pro se by himself earlier this year, some six, seven months ago or more. And the city was was content to fight against him so long as it was Chad by himself. And that was after the city had been delaying his permit over this unconstitutional and unlawful condition for more than a year. As soon as IJ filed our notice of appearance in his case, officially taking it over, the city then in just about two or three weeks, filed a letter saying that actually they decided that they were gonna waive his permit condition, even though they had officially told Chad when he first sought a waiver. Of that condition more than a year earlier, that they denied his waiver, and that was a final decision, and his permit condition not be issued unless he would give up his land. They've not given any kind of explanation as to why they've decided more than a year and a half after the fact and two and a half weeks after Chad got formal legal representation, why actually they've decided to waive it. Well, but to be fair, I think it probably speaks for itself.

A (22:21)

It sounds like they never provided an explanation for why they wanted to take this private property away from them in the first place. So why would they provide an explanation for the sudden about face? Right.

F (22:30)

That's a good point, Chad. And I think that segues into the question, the first question that you. That you asked me directly, which was what we discover about what's actually going on here. Unfortunately, Chad and Steph's situation is not at all unique in Miami. We've discovered that Miami has been enforcing what I would call, frankly, an extortion racket across the entire city. Where what they've done is sometime ago in the recent past, some years ago, we don't know exactly when, someone in the city decided that they wanted to expand public right of ways to match base building lines. And so the public right of ways, where the city can build a street, where the city can make landowners maintain the public sidewalks, where landowners, they might own it on paper and fee simple, the deed, but you can't really exclude any members of the public from the public right of way. And so the case law is quite clear that whenever the city wants to expand or take a public right of way, it has to provide owners compensation for that. Now, the base building line is where the owner still owns all the right to the property. The owner can exclude people from that area, but the owner's just not allowed to build up to that base building line. So it's like a setback line from the street. So the city decided at some point that they wanted to expand the public rights of way, but without.

A (23:46)

Without paying, though. That's right.

F (23:47)

They wanted to expand it, but they don't want to pay for it.

A (23:50)

So do they. So their way, do they wait for.

C (23:51)

The homeless in exchange for giving us something that we wanted? Right. So they would use an opportunity for us. You know, we want to invest in our land. We want to make it better While they have something we want, you know, why don't we give them something in return?

A (24:08)

Is this a scheme? Syringe is a scheme. They wait for the homeowners to come to them and say, hey, can I please get a permit? And they're like, hey, you know what we want?

F (24:16)

That's right. The scheme is, is that everybody, anywhere in the city, if you need a land use permit for anything, whether that's to remodel a bathroom, whether that is to add an extra bedroom, whether that's to expand your kitchen, anything at all that requires land use permit, a swimming pool in the backyard. One of the conditions they will attach to that permit is that you cede the land that represents the difference between the current public right of way and your building setback line. So IJ's, we have identified 66 streets that include over 1,000 homes and businesses of people who have either been subjected to this demand in the last several years or who are in danger of being subjected to it the next time they need a land use permit for anything. Now, the director of the city's public works department testified under oath that they've issued this demand against hundreds of people already.

A (25:09)

I saw that. That's of course compelling, is that this is not a unique case. Obviously this is when you have someone, sworn testimony from someone who works at the city admitting that they have done this already, quote, hundreds, end quote, of times or director too.

E (25:23)

That was his, that was his deposition.

A (25:25)

So let me ask you this though, about this map. I've seen it on your website. The 66 streets, the over 1,000 houses that are threat to this scheme, what does that mean? Why have you isolated it to this? And of the hundreds that they've already admitted to trying to shake down, why is it these 1000 plus homes at risk of the scheme, you say it's.

F (25:47)

Because those 66 streets are the streets where the standard public right of way is less than the building setback line. And so what the city is doing is every time any landowner needs a land use permit, I got it, they look to see is that building setback line, does that exceed the current public right of way? If it does, then we're going to demand that the land owner give the difference to expand the public right of way.

A (26:12)

I understand.

F (26:13)

And if you look at the maps, if you look at the maps, the city's GIS maps of current property lines, current public rights of way, you can actually see where it zigzags on all these streets. And one can infer that every time it zigzags to where the public right of way is closer to the home and then it goes back out that the city has demanded that the owner of that parcel give up the public right of way up to the building setback line without compensation.

A (26:40)

So Serenjan, you sound like a lawyer when you talk about this, and that's probably because you are a lawyer. Stephanie, I want to ask you about. Because that's the thing here is that. Is that we talk about these things in very sort of legal and esoteric terms about setbacks and all this shit. But there is a human toll to this. Every single one of these homes has people and families and husbands and wives and grandmas and grandpas and children and. And these are. This is where you live. And this is where are building a family and trying to enjoy a life. And what has this just been like when you try to do the right thing? You try to. I mean, first of all, welcome to Miami. I mean, I don't know what you thought you guys were getting yourselves into when you moved down here, but bienvenidos. I always say if anybody actually watched one city commission meeting, they would never move here, buy a house here, open a business here, invest here. You look for a city with a more stable government like say, Caracas or something. But nevertheless, you guys made the decision to come here. You made the decision to. To build a home and a family here. And just what does it feel like when you go to your government who is supposed to be helping you and as opposed to be.

C (27:46)

Maybe we're a little naive and idealistic, but everybody told us not to take this on, that we were never going to win. Right. Our architect said, if you have a path, you should fight it. But look, we have clients who have just given up the land. They tried for years and they eventually just gave up the land. We spoke to a dozen lawyers before IJ agreed to represent us for free. And we would never be able to afford, you know, a million dollar legal representation for this. So we're really doing this for the people and for everyone else after us who has to be put in this situation. Talk about the emotional and the monetary toll. Right? Like we were supposed to have a home for our family, for our growing family and support it. And you know, things have been falling apart. Our fence is falling apart, our air conditioning has had issues.

A (28:41)

Don't. Don't try to pull a permit for the fence. Good. Buenos. They. Good luck with that. Exactly.

C (28:46)

Exactly. I've had to move in with my parents house. He's had to move into someplace where he can like work in quiet. The family has had to spend time apart. And this just. This isn't right. Right. So when. When you think about. And we Ask ourselves a question. Did we make the right decision to get legal representation to, to, to drag this against the city when everybody told us we would never win? I think it's a win if other people after us don't have to go through the situation. Right. It's not right for a landowner. Somebody who's invested in the city, decides they want to make a future and raise their growing family who are tax owner taxpayers. It's not right for them to like hit these roadblocks because the city wants to take land because they can. Right. The government is supposed to work for its people. They're not supposed to extort us when we're sort of vulnerable to, to something that, that, that we're asking for them.

E (29:42)

So she's exactly right.

C (29:43)

I mean, we're fighting.

E (29:44)

I'm a US Military veteran and just the feeling is totally unamerican.

A (29:47)

Stephanie. They don't call it our ammy. Okay? You've had to, you've had to learn that lesson the hard way. And I'm sorry, but you are what's happened to you? But you are doing the right thing. The reason why people say you can't fight City hall is for the three reasons you've already cited. The financial toll, the emotional to town like this. It's hard to get representation who will go up against the city because people are scared of their government. It's not supposed to be that way. You know, what do they say? The government should be scared of the people. The people shouldn't be scared of the government. But that's what happens. You have law firms and people who have an interest in the city and don't want to be targeted by their own government and don't want the retaliation. And so they're too scared to even bring a suit. And so good for the Institute for Justice and Sorens. And I'm going to give you the last word. We're wrapping up now. But if there are other homeowners in Miami here who might be affected, affected by this or have already been affected and are extorted by the city, what should they do?

F (30:41)

They can feel free to contact us. You can go to ij.org and we have case intake sheet and in fact, right now we're working on setting up on Chad's. There's a case page that you can find for Chad and Stephanie on our website. We're right now looking at setting up a form that people can contact us because we do expect that hundreds of people, as the city's director has testified, have had to give up their land and hundreds, potentially thousands more, are in danger of having to do so.

A (31:06)

Serenjan sen ij.org Chad and Stephanie Troush, good luck to you and Merry Christmas.

C (31:13)

Thank you.

B (31:13)

Merry Christmas.

E (31:14)

Thanks so much for having me. Thanks for all you do, Billy.

A (31:18)

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B (31:55)

If we can run a show with.

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B (32:32)

When I think about the holidays, I think about the little moments with my dog Roma. The ones that make the season feel special. Put a little elf ears on her.

A (32:40)

You know the deal.

B (32:41)

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A (33:40)

Prosecutors at the Leon County Courthouse are taking their Hope Florida investigation behind closed doors, reportedly convening a grand jury this week.

D (33:50)

We have at this point information that tends to show that our attorney general committed money laundering and wire fraud.

C (33:58)

State lawmakers asking tough questions about how $10 million was funneled into a non.

A (34:03)

Profit called Hope Florida and not into a state bank account charity was spearheaded.

C (34:07)

By first lady Casey DeSantis.

A (34:09)

That cash quickly went out the door to two non profits for five million dollar grants and promises that the money would be used to further Hope Florida's mission, not politics. But those nonprofits later gave millions to a political committee fighting and defeating last year's recreational weed amendment, Keep Florida Clean, a group chaired by former DeSantis chief of staff turned Attorney General James Uthmeyer. There is now a criminal grand jury apparently convened in Leon county to investigate a story we brought to earlier this year with our guest Alexandrati, a Florida Republican representative who was the chair of the House Health Care Budget subcommittee who launched this investigation into Casey DeSantis nonprofit organization Hope Florida foundation and these very suspicious kind of pass through donations that wound up in the coffers of these two nonprofits that had never received any kind of money like this before. Hope Florida I think never donated this kind of money before and it caught some attention and now apparently is under criminal investigation. Representative Andrade, first up, there seems to be new news this past week in the investigation and I was wondering if you could help kind of walk us through this. The headline is that there were some repayments from a state agency to Medicaid that are I guess are evidence perhaps in and of themselves of what happened here to this money and how this money was classified. Can you kind of walk us through that?

D (35:45)

Yeah, absolutely. So I felt almost clairvoyant. So for the folks that, you know, may have heard some of the responses to my claims earlier this year, you know, There was a $67 million Medicaid settlement between a Medicaid contractor in the state earlier this year, 67 million was supposed to go back to the state at the very last minute, $10 million. That 67 was shaved off and sent to the Hope Florida Foundation. When we initially started delving into that, there was a big fight. The Agency for Healthcare Administration was swearing up and down, using the legal equivalent of pseudoscience to argue that the 10 million that was taken off the top of this settlement was not taxpayer money, was not Medicaid money. In response to the pseudoscience arguments, I just said, okay, well, how much are we paying the Feds back? Because for every dollar we collect on a Medicaid fraud settlement, we have to pay the Feds back their share of the Medicaid dollar. The feds pay 57.2% of every dollar we as a state spend on Medicaid. So every time we collect a dollar back in a Medicaid fraud settlement, we owe 57.2 cents back to the federal government. If the 10 million was not Medicaid money, then we would have paid 32 million back to the feds. Instead, we paid 38 million back to the feds. So even though ACA and the governor and James Uthmeyer all swore up and down this $10 million was not Medicaid money, money, we sure as heck paid the federal share back to the Feds of that 10 million that James Youth Meyer stole.

A (37:19)

So that's a bit of a telltale clue, right? It was either one amount owed or another amount owed based on the very simple equation of whether or not that 10 million would be classified as Medicaid money. So it's Medicaid money. But is the state denying that?

D (37:34)

They're no longer commenting. It was kind of like this hilarious game of chicken, chicken. Because I just said, okay, how much are we paying the Feds back? I can't wait to see you pay the feds back 32 million. If you really don't think that 10 million is Medicaid. And then I think some unfortunate employee over at Oka finally had to put their foot down, say, I'm not going to prison for James Ruth Meyer's theft. Right? And so they paid. They paid the feds back 38 million, which is exactly. The precise amount is exactly 57.2%. So $67 million.

A (38:06)

So Akka is the Florida Agency for Health Care Administration. And in this Florida Politics article, headline, Alex Andrade questions state agencies repayment in Hope Florida scandal. The quote from Akka Deputy Chief of Staff Mallory McManus in an email to Florida Politics, when asked about your claims, quote, that is incorrect, end quote. And she did not respond to a request to elaborate and provide additional details.

D (38:35)

Priceless.

A (38:36)

So it's comical. And then in April, no facts, no said just that is incorrect. Earlier, Governor Ron DeSantis described the $10 million as, quote, a cherry on top, end quote, in the settlement, arguing it wasn't truly from Medicaid money. He said in this past April, quote, when you do settlements, you can try to get as much money as you can, but this was in addition to what they were getting. All due respect, he's a lawyer, he's a smart guy, he went to a good law school. How is there like a separate pocket? Because even if you want to argue that it went into some separate bucket and they didn't reimburse Medicaid for their portion, then it's still 10 million less than arguably this company would have paid back to the state. Just because you separated out out, couldn't the taxpayer still have gotten 67 instead of like, that's what I also don't understand. Like, oh, no, no, this is like a cherry in another Sunday. It's like, no, it's. If it's a cherry on top, then it's part and parcel of the same Sunday. It's part and parcel of the same settlement in the same tranche of money. Oh, no, no. We negotiated that separately and put it over. It's like, well, are you saying they would have. This company would have given Hope Florida the 10 million without having to set up middle? What is his point exactly?

B (39:54)

You're making me hungry, Billy.

A (39:55)

I'm sorry. A lot of talk of Sundays. Yeah. A lot of talk of ice cream. Yeah.

D (39:59)

The most mind blowing part of all of this is that Centene, the contractor that paid the settlement amounts, they've been offering to pay the state $67 million, the full $67 million since before Hope Florida existed. So like on September 10th of last year, there was a meeting with the governor's office, like James Uthmeyer and the agency where they brought a copy of the settlement agreement draft that made no reference to Hope Florida in it. On September 10, the very next day after this meeting with the governor's office, Hope Florida gets injected into the settlement. The state suddenly losing $10 million. It's going to this Hope Florida Foundation. Also, the settlement was amended. There were three total payments. The settlement, the executed settlement required Centene to make. It was you have to pay the state 28 million within 45 days and then 28 million a year after that. The only payment the state required Centene to make before the election last November was this payment to Hope Florida. So they gave them seven days to pay Hope Florida $10 million and said, you don't have to pay the state even half of what you owe for 45 days after that, and then you got a year to pay the second half. So you can't tell me this wasn't fraud. And James Youth Meyer did not have designs on this money to use it and funnel it to his pack when this whole concept got contrived. Because they're either the worst negotiators in the world, completely incompetent, can't do math or calculate interest, or they're just, you know, corrupt folks willing to commit some fraud and steal some taxpayer money.

A (41:39)

I suppose I would say it was the, the former incompetence in the event that it didn't go to a charity that involved the governor's wife, the first lady of Florida, that didn't involve his. Then what was he, chief of staff at that point? Uthmeyer, who's now the unelected appointed Attorney General of the state of Florida. I mean, like it just with the characters involved and what happened with the money once it, it got there, like the immediacy of the kind of the flow through and the idea that very clearly this 10 million was earmarked 5 and 5 to go to those organizations for expressly the purpose that they immediately spent it for, which was for political ads to fight the marijuana legalization constitutional referendum in the state of Florida.

D (42:23)

The funniest part is that they, they promised centene and they promised centene that they would use this money for a Medicaid purpose. Like in the settlement they included a section saying like, whereas, you know, the Hope Florida program is going to have an expanded role in Medicaid and that's why we're going to send them $10 million. Literally the money went there and within like a week it was chopped up by these two groups. And all of it went to James Youth Meyer's pack. There was no follow up, no discussion with the Florida foundation about how to use this for Medicaid. They knew where this money was going from the get go. They sent it and it ended up in James's pack in like two weeks.

A (42:58)

And these quantities of money, these like are unprecedented in the world of all of these PACs, right? I mean, you know, the Hope Florida charity, like they had never seen dollar figures like this before.

D (43:10)

It had only raised like $2 million prior to getting this 10 million influx. And like a charity that had only raised 2 million had only spent 40 grand that year. Within a matter of like a week of getting this money, they sent to $5 million grants without board votes, without checking with the agency. James Youth Meyer's buddy, Jeff Eric got magically hired as the lawyer for this foundation. The same day, he tells the board chair for the foundation, hey, the governor's office wants you to do this. Just do it.

A (43:39)

I believe in magic. You believe in magic. Represent you. But these packs that the money went to, they'd never seen so much money before in their entire existence. $5 million each.

D (43:52)

No. And if you're so. One was Mark Wilson. He was the C. He's the CEO of the Florida Chamber of Commerce. He ran a 501C4 called Secure Florida's Future. And then another was Amy Ronshausen. She's the executive director for a group called Save Our Society from Drugs, which had only raised, you know, thousands every now and then. And every now and then, like as a pass through to hide the identity of a donor. Amy Ronshausen gets $5 million, the biggest grant she's ever gotten, I think, as the executive director for Save Our Society from Drugs from the governor's White's charity. And she doesn't turn around and tell her employer, the board for Save Our Society from Drugs, that she got this money or ask them permission for how to spend it. If I'm Amy and I want my employers to keep me on, maybe give me a raise, I'm bragging about the fact that the governor's wife just gave my organization 5 million bucks. She told no one. She chopped it up into smaller bits immediately, and she sent it all back to James in a matter of days.

A (44:47)

She believes in magic, too. Last question on this before we move on. What do you say to the people that say this is just some sort of, like, you know, it's a proxy war, internecine Republican fighting. Sort of like the MAGA Trump faction versus the DeSantis faction. You being on the president's side against the governor and that this is just to do political damage to him, his wife, any candidacy for, you know, governor next year, what's your reaction?

D (45:13)

I'm not running for anything else. Last I checked, I endorsed DeSantis when he ran for president. In the real world, if anyone defrauds a charity or the state of Florida or Medicaid out of millions of dollars, they go to prison. That's what happened here. Just the fact that I'm the one that discovered it doesn't change the fact that James Uthmeyer defrauded the state out of millions of dollars so he could spend Medicaid money buying political ads. And anyone who thinks that you can use Medicaid money to buy Political ads is kidding themselves. This has nothing to do with political dynamics, has everything to do with our attorney general. The guy who employs countless attorneys right now to prosecute people for Medicaid fraud has stolen more from the Florida Medicaid program than anyone his lawyers are prosecuting. If I'm one of those attorneys, I am so embarrassed, like mortified, having to.

A (46:04)

Work for this guy that's in the real world, though we live in Florida. I have to ask you about this. This is, I'm remiss to say there's a budding bromance going on here with me and you because this head in the Pensacola News Journal last week just, I mean, brought a tear to my Chapter 119 loving eye. So for folks who don't know, Chapter 119 is what we call the Sunshine Laws in the state of Florida. We're supposed to have government in the sunshine. Those are considered very open government kind of public records laws. The public is supposed to have access to anything and everything within reason in a reasonable amount of time with reasonable, for a reasonable, reasonable cost or expense if necessary. And the headline is Rep. Alex Andrade wants to put teeth back into Florida Sunshine Law. And as a journalist, an activist, I'm availing myself quite frequently of these laws. And I cannot tell you, I mean, I don't have to tell you the problem that it is with some of these agencies, particularly locally and statewide for that matter, trying to get access to not their records, not their property, not their material materials, our materials, the work product that is created on our time, on our dime as taxpayers by so called public servants who are supposed to be accountable and transparent and answerable to us. And yet I can't tell you how often I hear basically the equivalent of go pound sand, whether it's they ghost me, whether it's they ask for an exorbitant, I mean like deliberately ludicrous and onerous fee to research or whatever, like thousands of dollars, tens of thousands of dollars just to discourage engaging with their government and investigating their government. What has been your experience and what is the plan here and is there any traction for it?

D (47:54)

I hope there's traction. I think there's traction. But yeah, I, my experience has been the same as yours. You know, I mean, shoot, I did a public records request of our current attorney General, James Uthmeyer, and it was ignored for months. And then when it politically benefited him, he put all these records together, sought out one reporter for these records that I'd asked for for months and told this reporter what to Think about the records and said that reporter was going to have a two week exclusive before they shared them with anyone else. This is the attorney General, the guy that drafts the manual on complying with the Florida Public Records Act. The sunshine, the government sunshine manual. The guy that tells everyone else how to follow the law egregiously using, again, you took the words right out of memory mouth. Public records, they're not an asset of any public entity. They're an asset of the people. These are the public's records. You and I, we, we deserve, we are the ones that pay for them. We should have access to them. He took those records that are our records and he tried to trade on them politically to get some puff pieces written in one news outlet. Like again, it's so mortifying to think that the guy telling everyone else had to follow the law either is clueless about the law or is just willing to just outright, you know, thumb his nose at it and ignore it. It's like rules for thee, not for me. But yeah, I mean, the governor's office disregards public records. You get stonewalled. I got stonewalled by the Agency for Healthcare Administration. Like when I first discovered all of this stuff about Hope Florida, I asked them for, hey, can you just send me the drafts of all the settlement agreements you had just so I can get an idea, like when did the Hope Florida stuff get injected? I had to threaten to sue them to get those records. You know, and it's the same at the local and the state level. People just don't seem to want to, you know, follow the law right now. So we probably should, you know, spell out in statute what good faith is. You know, you got to respond and outline how long it might take you to produce records. Within three days, you got to give details. If you're going to say a public record is exempt, you got to cite to the statute before I sue you because if I sue you after you don't produce something, something and you haven't cited to that exemption, you don't get to raise it in a lawsuit. Now, as some like get out of jail free card, you should. As a public servant, it's a privilege. It's a privilege to be in these positions. You should act and be able to exhibit the good faith you have in trying to protect the public trust. And a big aspect of the public trust is being willing to turn over your work that you've done as a public servant. I don't care if some communication might look embarrassing. I've turned over records that I'm sure have been embarrassing previously, like, somehow, like, maybe I was snarking an email or something. I've never once thought I should hold that back. You should comply in good faith. You should produce your records. And the fact that so many people are ignoring it and the fact that the tone is set at the top and DeSantis doesn't seem to care a lick about public transparency or the public trust is something that I think does need to be correct.

A (50:50)

I appreciate it. I respect it. I fear it's going to be a bit of an uphill battle. It reminds me of campaign finance reform. It's like, you guys are the ones who are going to be subject to whatever these new rules are. And are, you know, our public officials, elected lawmakers, going to want to create laws that make things more onerous for them for their offices, what they conceive to be more invasive or, you know, hold them more accountable? I do want to say one of my favorite misnomers or least favorite misnomers about it was when people report that, oh, this record leaked, this document leaked. I'm like, you can't leak a public record. You could release a public record, but public records don't leak. We are supposed to have them. They are supposed to be available and accessible. I love that term because every. Oh, they. Someone. Someone leaked this to the press. You mean they. An email from an elected official, from their official government account. Like, you can't leak that. You should just release it it all the time.

D (51:47)

You're taking the words right out of my mouth. That's another pet peeve I have. Like, absolutely. Could not agree more.

A (51:53)

Representative Alex Andrade, thank you so much. You're now a friend of the show. I think Roy, just two appearances qualify as friend of the show.

B (51:59)

Yes. Because somebody actually wants to come back.

A (52:01)

So, yeah, you get. Yeah. Magatov, you are now a friend of the show. And thank you. Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah. Happy holidays to you. Thanks for being here.

D (52:09)

Merry Christmas, guys. Thank you.

A (52:11)

What a week. The death of the Carrillo dynasty, the rise once again of the Miami Hurricanes football dynasty making the college football playoffs, and our Miami moment. Because, you know, Roy, we gotta bookend the show with carollos because we're not gonna have Joe to kick around anymore. That's unfortunate. It's unfortunate. And I'm gonna miss him. I think we've already established. Yes, Punching bag. Yes. It feels a little like the end of the Dark Knight night, you know, when Heath Ledger is swinging back and forth in and out of focus. Upside down and he's like, you know, we're just going to keep doing this forever. I'm not saying which of us is Batman and which of us is Joker, by the way, but I feel. I feel a little symbiotic with Joe now that he's going. I thought that we would take a moment to relive one of our intimate moments at a post commission meeting press conference where I tried to ask Joe some questions and he didn't think that I had a right to do that because he's not a big fan of the first Amendment. Obviously is evidenced by the fact that he owes 63 and a half million dollars in a First Amendment retaliation judgment. But who's counting really? I am. Cocaine's. You just lying. Joe just answered 50 years. And I guess you guys are sergeant of arms. Think that it's okay.

E (53:31)

Okay?

A (53:31)

It's a press conference, Joe. It's a public building.

B (53:34)

You can't.

A (53:34)

You can't weaponize government to arrest the press. You can't arrest the government. Billy, ask your daughter what she thinks of you. Ask your daughters what she thinks of you here today. That's a lie. How much have they prov. Not a penny. Not a penny. You lying wife beating scumbag.

B (53:51)

Thank you.