Brian Windhorst Steals From Stephen A. Smith's Office? | Hour 2

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Episode: "Brian Windhorst Steals From Stephen A. Smith's Office? | Hour 2"
Date: June 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, and their cast dive deep into the seismic NBA moves rocking Miami and Boston, focusing on the Miami Heat’s acquisition of Giannis Antetokounmpo. Featuring guest NBA insider Brian Windhorst, the panel breaks down the implications for the Heat, the Celtics, and the Bucks, explores front office strategies, riffs on legacy and process, and delivers trademark humor (including Brian’s exploits in Stephen A. Smith’s office). The conversation also touches on comparisons across sports, the nuances of media reporting, and even a memorable tale involving Dan’s wedding.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Miami Heat After the Giannis Trade: Contenders or Not?

[01:38 – 05:40]

• Emergency Pod Context: The show reacts to Bill Simmons’ and his crew’s immediate take that “the Miami Heat are not contenders” post trade.
• Myths vs. Reality: Chris and Amin explain that Miami’s core self-belief and player development prowess are being tested. Miami must fill major roster holes; this is a playoff team at best unless more moves are made.
• Track Record: Dominique (“Amin”) defends Miami’s history of finding undervalued talent—“turning coal into diamonds”—citing lesser-known success stories (e.g., Duncan Robinson, Hassan Whiteside).
• Roster Construction: All agree the Heat are not a title team with the current roster, but building continues. Amin recalls Jimmy Butler’s arrival in 2019:
  “When you guys acquired Jimmy Butler… they just made a big step to make other steps.” (Dominique Wilkins, 03:30)
• Apron Era Constraints: The second collective bargaining agreement (“apron era”) further complicates Miami’s flexibility to bring in more talent.

2. The Front Office Angle & Boston’s Jaylen Brown Dilemma

[06:38 – 07:54, 20:43 – 25:16]

• Pat Riley’s Recipe: Hawk Harrelson (Windhorst) articulates how Miami has long won via “the star trade”—Mourning, Shaq, LeBron, Jimmy, and now Giannis.
• Celtics Chess: Boston’s measured involvement in the Giannis sweepstakes signals they may have other plans for Jaylen Brown, who is now openly on the trade block.
  “Boston could have offered more… but they didn’t. There’s a sense they believe in other pathways.” (Hawk Harrelson, 09:09)
• Future Outlook: Celtics have a stable, contending roster while Miami is a “mystery box.”: “A boat’s a boat, but a mystery box could be anything. It could be a boat. The Celtics are a boat. The Heat are a mystery box.” (Dominique Wilkins, 24:53)

3. Windhorst, Snacks, and Stephen A. Smith’s Office

[07:54 – 16:28]

• Humor Segment: Windhorst, doing the interview from Stephen A. Smith’s office, jokes about not stealing snacks or touching anything.
• Snack Guesses: Speculation abounds—Kind Bars, blue Doritos, Mandarin cuties—but Windhorst maintains:
  “There’s various nuts and berries in a box over here that says snacks. I’m not touching that box.” (Hawk Harrelson, 12:52)
• Act of Rebellion: Windhorst refuses to nibble on any of Stephen A.’s treats—
  “I am very, very respectful of Mr. Smith’s property in here. I am going to rub up all the fingerprints, and I am not touching anything.” (Hawk Harrelson, 15:39)

4. The Jaylen Brown Fallout: Front Office and Player Management

[20:43 – 36:28]

• Executive Relations: Dominique stresses the value of communication:
  “If we see an opportunity to make our team better and it involves including you, I will do it. I won’t have your name out in rumors for months on end… the best front offices do their relationship work upfront.” (Dominique Wilkins, 21:02, 35:20)
• Brown’s Perspective: The panel explores how players, like Brown, use social media/Twitch to control narratives. Is his sensitivity genuine or strategic?
• Advice to Executives: Dominique warns: “Don’t just blow smoke up your players’ asses. When tough decisions come, you need frankness and upfront rapport.”

5. Who Wins and Who’s Most Impacted?

[25:16 – 27:12]

• Trade Beneficiaries: Unanimity that, right now, the Heat benefit the most by finally landing a superstar after years of being in pursuit.
• Legacy Talk:
  “If Giannis wins a championship at another place... Do we give all that credit to him? Or do we say, damn, Pat Riley did it again—even at 85?” (Greg Cody, 26:42)
• Amin’s Response:
  “Giannis absolutely benefits… but today, Pat Riley gets to stand up and say… ‘Oops, I did it.’” (Dominique Wilkins, 27:03)

6. Miscellaneous and Memorable Moments

a. Classic Show Banter and Storytelling

[32:28 – 34:09]

• Dan’s Wedding Story: Chris Cody’s juggling goes awry, allegedly striking Dan Patrick, as the cast reminisces about the colorful seating arrangements and characters present.

b. Media & Reporting Accuracy in Basketball vs. Other Sports

[38:57 – 39:54]

• Dominique theorizes NBA’s news-breaking chaos stems from a more competitive, fragmented reporting environment.

c. Hockey & Basketball Superstar Cross-Comparisons

[40:07 – 41:45]

• Comparison of Giannis’ arrival in Miami to a hypothetical “hockey equivalent”—but McDavid is considered more apt than Kachuk for “sheer immortal” status.

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Notable Quotes

• On Miami’s Front Office Identity:
  “One thing they do really well is finding the guy that anyone could have had… But we did.”
  —Dominique Wilkins (03:10)

• On Celtics and Jaylen Brown:
  “I think the most important thing… is that Boston has apparently decided Jaylen Brown probably needs to be traded… that’s the next storyline in the NBA.”
  —Brian Windhorst (Hawk Harrelson, 09:09)

• On the Giannis Trade Benefiting Milwaukee:
  “What Milwaukee got was the thing that sets them up for the future, the best, which is enough bites at the apple to continue to build.”
  —Dominique Wilkins (37:16)

• On Windhorst Not Stealing Snacks:
  “I am… going to rub up all the fingerprints and I am not touching anything.”
  —Brian Windhorst (Hawk Harrelson, 15:39)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• [01:38] – Bill Simmons’ take: Miami not contenders?
• [03:10] – Miami’s track record of development (Dominique)
• [07:54] – Pat Riley’s championship formula; Windhorst from Stephen A.'s office
• [08:37] – Celtics’ approach to the Giannis sweepstakes; Jaylen Brown rumors
• [14:39] – Heat salary cap gymnastics; Andy Elisburg’s maneuvers
• [20:43] – Amin on executive-player relationships; the Brown fallout
• [24:53] – “Boat vs. Mystery Box” analogy (Dominique)
• [26:42] – Who’s most impacted by this trade?
• [32:28] – Dan’s wedding & Chris Cody’s juggling story
• [38:57] – Why is NBA reporting so chaotic?
• [40:07] – Hockey vs. basketball superstar impacts

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Style & Tone

The episode is energetic, irreverent, and peppered with in-jokes, gentle roasting, and deep sports insight. Quotable, full of lively crosstalk, with a blend of analysis and farce—the classic Le Batard Show experience.

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This summary covers all key substantive discussions, skips ad reads, and maintains the spirit and voice of the show’s participants for an engaging, useful recap.

Transcript

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[Dan Le Batard]

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That was super rude and disrespectful what we did to Amin and we will not do it again. Let's play for Amin though. The sound from Bill Simmons Bill Simmons and his crew did an emergency pod to state that the Miami Heat are not contenders. And so here they were last night, reacting to the news immediately.

[Chris]

Is Giannis on a better team now than he was yesterday?

[Greg Cody]

I don't think so.

[Hawk Harrelson]

I would say Bam's a better teammate.

[Dan Le Batard]

Maybe the front office is a little

[Dominique Wilkins]

more motivated, but I don't think this

[Dan Le Batard]

team's a title contender, do you?

[Chris]

This is going to test to Miami's kind of like big myths of self belief that they have, which is a we're an attractive destination for top tier talent to come and b we trust our development so much that we can turn coal into diamonds wherever we look. And they're really going to have to dig now because they need to find four more guys like this is not. This might be a playoff team in the east, but this is not a title team.

[Dominique Wilkins]

I mean, he said the myths of Miami and that they can turn coal into diamonds. And I would just say, okay, who else has a track record? When you say Duncan Robinson and Max Dr. And Gabe Vincent, okay, those guys are recent. But what about Ike Austin? What about Vashon Leonard? What about James Johnson and Hassan Whitesided? You go throughout, all the way to the beginning of his tenure. One thing they do really well is finding the guy that anyone could have had. That's a moral of the story, is that any One of these 29 other teams could have had them. And some in in fact did have them and didn't do anything with them. But we did. Right? That's what Miami front office hangs its hat on. And I don't think that's in question. What Bill is saying is technically accurate. If this is the roster, all seven or eight guys under contract, yeah, they can't contend for a title. They can't even compete in an NBA game because they don't have enough build roster spots. But we know that the work is still yet to be done there. There are more trades to be done. There are more signings to be done. There's more digging for coal lumps to turn into diamonds, to use Chris's analogy. And so you can be technical and say, today are they a contender? And say, no. And I would agree they're not today. But the idea is, A, how can we build this thing out? And B, and this is a big one. When you guys acquired Jimmy Butler in 2019, and you guys said, oh, he's not a superstar. And I said, yes, he is. And he said, well, he can't win a championship by himself. And I said, well, that's not the point. The point is now you just made a big step to make other steps coming along the way. Do I think the Heat are going to win the title this year? The odds are probably not. But the idea is, and they did it for this year and this year only, and if it doesn't happen this year, oh my God, our whole life is over. This is a continuous process and you just keep building and adding to it.

[Greg Cody]

I think the point that Amin started with is the right one. When you have those big trades, I think back to Luka as like the most enormous trade. None of those teams already amazed immediately. It's unfair to analyze whether they can win the championship right then because you have to give up a lot to get something like that done. Your roster isn't currently constructed to be built around that player. But where I do find the criticism to be fair about this team's potential to win a championship is understanding that under the new second apron era, where you kind of are dealing with more hard caps how difficult it's going to be to bring in other talented players. Which is why we get back to the like, making these players, building, developing these players. If a team has to do that, the Heat are a team that can potentially do that. But I mean, do you see room or maneuvers with specific players in the future, or is it unfair to be looking for that right now? I think it's hard to find a path. I think is where the criticism is fair is like, yes, you got the quarterback. Every team needs a quarterback to win a championship. It's hard to find. You get one in the NBA, you got one, you can do it. Is there a path?

[Dominique Wilkins]

Yeah, I mean, I think there's absolutely a path.

[Jeremy Schaap]

I wasn't a part of that.

[Dominique Wilkins]

I didn't know.

[Dan Le Batard]

You know what that means. I'm sorry, Amin. Brian Windhorst is with us. Brian Windhorst has been reporting and opining on this for several days among the most credible people in the business. Brian, thank you. I know you're very busy today. What are your over. You want to say something before.

[Hawk Harrelson]

What's the thought process with that?

[Jeremy Schaap]

It happened at midnight. We were in a big hurry. We do a show in the morning. There's not a lot of time for imaging.

[Kenny Mayne]

They would have beheaded Jeremy for that, by the way.

[Greg Cody]

I'd be killed in the show.

[Jeremy Schaap]

Just enough, all of you, for questioning the imaging. It just. We don't work.

[Hawk Harrelson]

No, not the imaging. The sounding.

[Jeremy Schaap]

Yes, it's an alarm. It's an alarm signaling that Yanis, that Giannis has been acquired and that we are in a state of emergency. Thank you. Yes, it was him. And I've got a cold. It wasn't him. It was me. But my lungs don't have any capacity. It was you. Brian, can you tell me what you make of the over overnight, the overnight developments and clearly Milwaukee squeezed a little more out of Miami than Miami was comfortable giving over the last couple of

[Dan Le Batard]

days with Boston getting involved.

[Hawk Harrelson]

Yeah, well, this is the. This is the pathway. This is the way that Pat Riley has won the championships. He was Alonzo Mourning, then it was Shaquille O', Neal, then it was LeBron James, then it was Jimmy Butler. Did I forget a star in there? Do you count Garon Dragic, you know, is gorandragic. Same type of thing, not the same level of star. This is the Heat recipe to go to a championship. So they have a He's in his prime. He wants to stay in Miami. I anticipate he'll sign. And now the challenge will be on, you know, Andy Ellisberg and Pat Riley and, you know, the development in, you know, Adam Simon and the front office from the Heat to put a team around him because they paid a lot. And the one thing that was different about this time than the other times is now you have to deal with aprons. And I know, it's so annoying. I have friends who are NBA fans and they hate when I say the word apron. They just want to turn off what they're watching at. But the Heat have, you know, they're a little bit, you know, restricted in how they're going to be able to build this year's team. But Giannis has years in his prime left. This is, you know, a multi year thing. I, I would never put anything past the Heat. I don't anticipate them being able to compete for the championship this year, but I would anticipate them being able to build a championship contender over the next, you know, 12 to 18 months.

[Dan Le Batard]

You've snuck into Stephen A's office again, haven't you?

[Hawk Harrelson]

Did you have to bring that up? Like, I just barely got away with it last time. I was hoping you. I was hoping nobody would notice, and he reprimanded me for that.

[Jeremy Schaap]

He's wearing a cowboy hat behind you. I wouldn't assume that was in your office.

[Hawk Harrelson]

Let me just say there's a lot. I don't have an office. There's a lot of, like, snacks in here and I haven't touched anything. I've barely, I've had zero residual presence in here. But, you know, George Stephanopoulopis, you gotta take a step. George Stephanopoulos office is occupied. Diane Sawyer's office is occupied. I, Stephen A. Is in Miami. Like, this is, this is what I'm, I'm able to sneak in here.

[Dan Le Batard]

Do you feel like you were lied to when you were told that the Celtics weren't shopping Jaylen Brown, or do you honestly think that something happened in the last.

[Hawk Harrelson]

I wasn't told. They didn't shop him. I said they didn't. They hadn't offered him. Those are two different things. And, you know, that was a week ago. And obviously he's offered. He was offered. He's. He's out there. I think one of the most important, you know, obviously this is a Miami centric audience that you have the most important thing in the league right now for what's going to happen in the 20627 season is that Boston has apparently decided that Jaylen Brown probably needs to be traded for them to be, you know, the team that, you know, a competitive team. Because that's now going to be the next storyline in the NBA. Obviously the Heat getting Giannis is a, is a huge, you know, from the moment they traded Jimmy Butler, they've been on the hunt for the next star. That's a huge story for them. I, you know, that Boston, you know, sort of examined and then decided we're going all in. But I will say this. Boston could have offered more. They could have put more things in this deal. They did not. So I don't think they viewed this as the be all, end all that they had to get Giannis. It was their only pathway forward. I think Miami clearly had a little bit more urgency and by the way, that may not be, I'm not criticizing that, but they clearly had more urgency. Boston kept some, some pieces out, which leads me to believe, I don't know, I'm not in Brad Stevens's office right now with all his whiteboards and all his plans, but leads me to believe that Boston thinks it may have some other pathways with Jaylen Brown that are go beyond having to sell everything out to get Giannis.

[Dan Le Batard]

Do you think the Celtics will regret not doing this because of Hugo Gonzalez?

[Hawk Harrelson]

I don't think it was this. I don't think, I don't think it ever comes down to that. I think there was way more multifaceted than that. We'll hear what the, what the Bucks say. I think a factor in this too was if the, if the, if the Bucks made this trade the way it was presented to them. Forget about Hugo Gonzalez. If the Bucs made this trade, they potentially would have been in the exact same spot a year from now. They'd have a star player on their team and they weren't able to build out their roster. Now maybe they smash hit this number 10 pick that they're going to make tonight. To me, the most important thing about this trade for Milwaukee is that they crush this draft tonight. Like they need to move on from this, this, you know, deal. Fine, you made it. Have your press conference later. Crush number 10 and number 13. You've got to hit those players. That is what your pathway forward is to crush those players. Tyler Herro is a quality player. He's a number three or number four on a high level team. Let's just be honest. They need to get number one and number to tonight in the draft. Okay. And they I, you know, if they had got a number 10 pick that could be a number one player, maybe they will, maybe they won't. How do I know the future? But if they knew that the number 10 pick tonight was going to yield a player that they could put Jaylen Brown with and they could be a contender for the next three or four years, they would operate differently. But I think the part of this. And by the way they obviously stewed over this. It took him forever to make this decision. And there's probably different voices who want different things. You know, maybe Jaylen Brown was the better way forward. But I think what they honestly decided was if we trade for Jaylen Brown and then we can't put a team around him and we can't give him the contract extension, we're going to be in the same exact. But we were with the honesty a year from now. And I do think that's part of this decision. I don't think it was about. Because they wanted, you know, Baylor Shireman.

[Greg Cody]

All right, I want to set up a big reveal. Let's go around the room. What do you think, everybody? What do you think, Stephen A. Snacks are. What are your guesses?

[Le Batard]

Big kind bar guy.

[Dan Le Batard]

I gotta let. Brian's very busy. I gotta let him go.

[Le Batard]

He's got a.

[Jeremy Schaap]

That we'd let.

[Hawk Harrelson]

I think just. It would be funny if I should. I think it's like people have sent him snack boxes and stuff. I'm just saying. I'm being very, very. There's many things in here that people have sent him.

[Greg Cody]

Okay.

[Hawk Harrelson]

There's many things in here. Like someone has left him a terrible. I'm not going to touch it, but I'm just going to tell you. Someone has left him a terrible towel with a note on it. There is fan mail here. There is, there is, there is. There suit swatches I would never touch and I would never wear. Is very, very expensive.

[Kenny Mayne]

No, he doesn't eat that. He doesn't eat that.

[Le Batard]

Blue Dorito, guys.

[Mike]

They're so easy.

[Le Batard]

Something from Buck got like Mandarin cuties.

[Kenny Mayne]

He's a healthy guy now.

[Hawk Harrelson]

Yes. Stephen A. Is not consuming chocolate. I don't think so. There is, there is. There's. There's various nuts and berries in. In a. In a box over here that says snacks. I'm not touching that box. I am not touching that box.

[Greg Cody]

Gotta check out Greedy's office. He's got a painting in there that someone sent to him. Check it out.

[Dan Le Batard]

We gotta let Brian go. A percentage of chance. Norman Powell is still with the Heat next year.

[Hawk Harrelson]

Next to zero. Next to zero. I will say this, Dan. I've seen the Heat do some things over the years where they pull contractual things out of thin air, where they're able to get players to do things. There's a list of those players. Udonis Haslam was one of them. I remember Bano Udry. Wasn't that some special deal they made with Bano Udry? So Mike Miller took less than he could have gotten elsewhere. So I would never, ever take anything off. I remember being on with you the week that. That LeBron signed, and I was sort of saying, I don't know how they're going to do this. And you said, because Pat Riley and Andy Ellsberg can do it. And I was highly skeptical. That was 15 years ago. I'm not. I'm not that way anymore. They've got $18 million right now to fill out five spots. Not like $18 million in theory. $18 million and they hit. Not $18 million that they're willing to spend. $18 million. $18 million hard. No way they can go past it. They can create a little bit more space if they can. You guys know this. You guys know all this. If they can get Andrew Wiggins to come down from his 30 million, I don't know what that number is. I'm sure Andy Ellisberg has it figured out 17 different ways and had it figured out for a month. I'm sure they've already talked to him about it. They can create a little bit more room. I don't think that there's room there for Norm, pal. So, you know, they trade. You know, they. They trade away a player, you know, and free some pet salary cap space up. Then we have a different discussion. But as they sit here now, I think it's likely that Norm Powell will be elsewhere.

[Dan Le Batard]

We do have to let him go. But just. True or false question. True or false.

[Jeremy Schaap]

You can't.

[Hawk Harrelson]

I hate when you do this.

[Dan Le Batard]

Just one word.

[Hawk Harrelson]

This is a trick.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, it's not a trick.

[Hawk Harrelson]

It's a trick. No, I won't.

[Jeremy Schaap]

It's not a trick. It's an easy question. It's an easy question.

[Mike]

You're gonna get them.

[Hawk Harrelson]

I've consumed your content.

[Dan Le Batard]

True or false? True or false.

[Dominique Wilkins]

Go ahead.

[Hawk Harrelson]

Give him a try.

[Dan Le Batard]

You were going to pull something out of somewhere other than thin air, but then remembered you weren't just casually talking among friends.

[Hawk Harrelson]

True or fals regali. Oh, you talking about the heat.

[Dan Le Batard]

You pulled something out of thin air.

[Jeremy Schaap]

And I thought you were gonna pull

[Dan Le Batard]

it out of somewhere else instead of thin air. And you edited yourself true or false?

[Hawk Harrelson]

True.

[Dan Le Batard]

Thank you.

[Dominique Wilkins]

Yes, thank you.

[Le Batard]

Got him.

[Jeremy Schaap]

Trail mix.

[Dan Le Batard]

Trail mix

[Le Batard]

they give you on airplanes.

[Hawk Harrelson]

There's Nestle Little Crunch. And that's what I'd like to take. But I'm not gonna take it. I'm not gonna take it.

[Greg Cody]

You earned it when you get to it.

[Hawk Harrelson]

I am. I'm not. I. I am gonna walk out of here, I'm gonna rub up all of the fingerprints and I'm not touching anything. It's a little warm in here and there's a thermostat. But I would ne. And I know he's 2000 miles away or thousand however long for here to Miami. I would not touch it.

[Greg Cody]

You've been non stop giving opinion and reporting for months now. You deserve.

[Dan Le Batard]

I feel like an act of re.

[Jeremy Schaap]

And you should take one nibble off of one little crunch. Just in an act. Just one little crunch. No, I can't get you to do it. I can't force you into an act of rebellion. No.

[Hawk Harrelson]

I am very, very respectful of Mr. Smith's property in here. And he allows me, in New York City where space is at a premium, that I am able to briefly, to be a part of your show, rent his desk for a matter of minutes.

[Dan Le Batard]

Thank you for the time. I know you're very busy. Thank you. Have a good day, Brian. You too.

[Greg Cody]

Hey, Wendy.

[Norman Powell]

He ENJ for 22 years on this show, we've debated the greatest athletes of all time. Who's the goat in football? Who's the goat in soccer? Who's the goat in hoops? One thing that we all know is Dan's the goat of finding the worst possible take. But there's another kind of MVP goat that doesn't get enough credit. The friend who knows to show up with enough Miller lights plus extra ice. Because they just know the one who already has seats at the bar when you walk up up. That is Miller Time nvp. I've been on this show long enough to know that Dan is going to make everything about his feelings and Jeremy is going to push back on whatever I just said. But here's something nobody on this show will argue with. Miller Lite is the summer beer. The original light beer since 1975. This summer, recognize your MVPs. We all have that one friend who makes every game better. Now it's time to give them their moment. Head over to Miller Lite's social media pages to learn more about being a Miller Time mvp. You can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

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[Le Batard]

down Levitar for five minutes I was watching everyone just like, nope, not letting you in. Not letting you in. So when I got up there, I had to say something and I said it. Cheaters never prosper. Chris Cody, my buddy was saying, not today.

[Dominique Wilkins]

Yeah, but you're not today.

[Le Batard]

I think that was what he was adding. Yeah, that's so much better. I'm tell the response I got from this guy, what I said was amazing.

[Mike]

He got him.

[Le Batard]

Cheaters never prosper. This guy yelled as angry as he could.

[Dan Le Batard]

I ain't cheating. This is the Dan Levatar show.

Let's bring back Amin.

[Jeremy Schaap]

We're not going to do that to him again.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's rude and it is disrespectful. So we aren't going to do that again to Amin. But what kind of Jaylen Brown problem do the Celtics have?

[Dominique Wilkins]

I mean, I mean, this is sports. At the end of the day, it's business. And it all depends on the kind of relationship that Brad Stevens and Joe Missoula have with Jaylen Brown. What I mean by that is when I work for the Sun, Steve Kerr was our gm and Steve Kerr would always make it a point to tell address the team as a whole and individually, hey, we like you guys. We want you here because we think we're building towards something. But if we see an opportunity to make our team better and it involves including you, I said, I will do it it. Now, I won't have your name out in rumors for months on end. I won't. I won't put you through that. And if we're considering something, I'll let you know. But at the end of the day, there is no promise for any of us to stay here. And because of that, I think a lot of guys really respected that approach. And when we ended up trading Shaq to Cleveland, we're the only team that, that sent Shaq away and didn't get burnt in the process because he really respected our process.

[Dan Le Batard]

This.

[Dominique Wilkins]

If Brad Stevens and Joe Missoula had that kind of relationship with, with Jaylen Brown and letting him know early in the process, even before he heard his name in any rumors, look, if there's an opportunity and your name's in it, it might happen. So I just want you to know that we love you. We'd love to have you for a long time, but if we think we can make our team better, we'll do it. I think that might have Landed better. If he discovered this in the midst of him being upset about how he's perceived either internally, externally, then it might take a little bit more cajoling and smoothing over. But the reality is the thing that's in their favor the most is the best thing for Jalen Brown is to go out there and play really well for a championship contending team. And Boston is that. So it does him no good to pout and demand a trade. The best option for him to get his money and to get his value to where he wants to be is to go out there and play.

[Greg Cody]

Given what we've seen from Jaylen Brown and the Celtics, how do you think this is going to play out? Because I hear you talking about how things were at a different place with a different player, and I don't know Jaylen Brown or the situation as well as probably you or some other people. But I get the sense from the clips that I see from his twitch stream and the quotes that I see out there in the, the reporting that we're hearing about it that it ain't gonna go as smooth just because we know it's a business. It doesn't feel like he's gonna handle it that way.

[Jeremy Schaap]

Yeah.

[Dominique Wilkins]

You know, and it's interesting, Dominique, like why does he have a twitch stream? And he said it, it's cuz he wants to control his narrative. He feels like, like when left to its own devices, the media doesn't exactly tell his side of the story well. And he feels like him going direct to consumer helps. Well, guess what happens when people have the ability to tell their narrative, they also get to build their narrative. So he may not necessarily be as sensitive as he appears to be in these streams. Maybe he's just positioning. Maybe he's just trying to put himself in a place where he's being victimized by a system, by an organization, whatever the case may be. But again, at the end of the day, whether he's sensitive for real or not, whether he feels underappreciated or not, the best option available to him is to go out and play and play well on a championship contending team to get his money. And he got the opportunity to do that. Remember, Tatum is still recovering. He's still not going to be the same Tatum he was prior to the injury. So at least on day one of training camp, Jalen Brown still has the inside track of I'm still the best player on this team right now.

[Dan Le Batard]

Let me ask you the question this way, given what you expect to happen in the coming Months. Okay. Given the expectations that you have, who's going to be better next year, the Heat or the Celtics?

[Dominique Wilkins]

Right now, what it is, I would say the Celtics, because they've, they have their roster. But again, you know, the Heat have an opportunity to go out there and do that Miami Heat thing where they get that guy who looks. Oh, that guy.

[Dan Le Batard]

What do you expect in the next couple of months? What do you expect to happen that will answer that question for you?

[Jeremy Schaap]

Who do you expect to be better

[Dan Le Batard]

when games are being played next year, the Celtics or the Heat?

[Dominique Wilkins]

Right now, I'm going to go with the Celtics because they have their roster. Right now, what you're asking me is the old family guy question. A boat's a boat, but a mystery box could be anything. It could be a boat. The, the Celtics are a boat. The Heat are a mystery box. Right now, it could be amazing, depending on what's inside that mystery box, or it could be still a work in progress. But you, you have to go with the status quo. The status quo is the Celtics have a full roster that's ready to contend right now.

[Greg Cody]

Who is this best for Giannis, The Celtics, Milwaukee, or the Heat? And I'm separating Giannis from the Heat, right?

[Dominique Wilkins]

No, it's the Heat. Yeah, it's the Heat. We. They've been on this hunt for years, and they finally. And what I've always said about front is the easy part is the hard part. And the hard part's easy part. Easy part is saying, he's a superstar. That guy's an mvp. So it's like, yeah, we can all recognize that. Can you get them? Well, no, that's hard because there's other teams that are going to be competing for it, whatever. On the flip side is like, oh, that guy's a good player. Anyone can have him. That's easy. But it's hard because you actually have to identify them. It's harder to identify those role players. The Miami Heat Fun office is really good at identifying those role players and those complementary pieces. I, I But they haven't been good at landing the whale.

[Greg Cody]

This so interesting, because you're right. But I, I think the. And it's kind of a legacy question. Who is more impacted, assuming they win a championship in the next couple of years, who's our. Whose legacy is more like bolstered Giannis, Pat Riley, spo, Like, I keep thinking about this, and we're celebrating SPO and Pat Riley's potential with what they can do and what they've done in the past. More than we're talking about how much this impacts Giannis. And I think we might possibly be overlooking the idea that Giannis win championship at another place. Will we give all that credit to him, how special a player he has become, or will we say, damn, Pat Riley in the Heat did it again, don't care if he's 85?

[Dominique Wilkins]

No, no, no. It's absolutely honest, right? Because the list of guys who won one title is long in terms of, comparatively speaking, to guys have won multiple titles, and then if you say multiple titles in different places, that. That, you know, list shrinks considerably. Giannis absolutely benefits if they win a title tremendously. But in terms of today, Giannis gets another crack at trying to contend and all that stuff. But today, Pat Riley gets to stand up and say, remember, we all thought I was washed. Oops, I did it.

[Greg Cody]

Great comeback. Great comeback for Pat Riley.

[Dan Le Batard]

What did you just spit into a cup, like, with a disgusted face.

[Kenny Mayne]

It was crazy.

[Dan Le Batard]

What just happened to you?

[Le Batard]

What did you just heard a noise?

[Dan Le Batard]

What did you just sip on and

[Jeremy Schaap]

make a disgusting face?

[Dan Le Batard]

I thought you chewed tobacco all of

[Jeremy Schaap]

a sudden and swallowed some of it.

[Mike]

Yeah. So, like, I got. I got. I got water right here, which is what I thought that I was drinking. I want to take a sip of water. You know, it's already set in your head what you're about to sip, so if it's something opposite of what you think you're gonna sip, that's very jarring to your senses. My senses can be very sensitive, okay? So I thought that I was about to have water, and it was very upsetting when it turned out to be my really cold coffee that was very disgusting, so I had to spit it back out.

[Dan Le Batard]

This happened to me this weekend with what I. But it was Mezcal neat, and so

[Jeremy Schaap]

I thought I was taking a sip of just clean water and was like, whoa, my eyes got real red.

[Kenny Mayne]

You were sick this weekend, and you decided to drink Mezcal right before I got Jafil.

[Greg Cody]

I feel like thinking you're getting water, getting a little sweet drink. That's different. Are you excited? Like, if you're anticipating a little bland sip of water, you get Kool Aid, extra sugar.

[Mike]

But like I told you, my. My senses are very sensitive, all right? And I thought that there was me water in my tongue, and it was something not.

[Greg Cody]

How much do you think the Knicks winning the championship influenced Pat Riley to put it all on the table? He had to be pissed about the Knicks,

[Dominique Wilkins]

I think. Look, they try to get him at the trade Deadline and. And the Bucks held out. And so he threw in more. I think Boston's involvement for sure, that motivated it more to. To lose him is one thing. To lose him to those guys, that absolutely could not happen. And so maybe that was. That was all Milwaukee needed, was just the right second competitor, second suitor. But I don't think the Knicks winning. I don't think Pat.

[Greg Cody]

Pat's over that.

[Dominique Wilkins]

That had anybody.

[Dan Le Batard]

I mean, I want to put in front of you this Pat Riley quote and give you the chance to tell me what's the closest comp you have to Pat Riley sending out a team spok. And to say of Danny Ainge, the general manager of the Celtics at the time, Danny Ainge needs to shut the bleep up and manage his own team. He was the biggest whiner going when he was playing, and I know that because I coached against him. What is the closest comp you have to somebody in Pat Riley's position? Sending out a vice president to give

[Dominique Wilkins]

that quote, probably him faxing his resignation to the Knicks on Christmas. That. That's up there too, by the way. Shout out to Tim Donovan. Is this. Is that the pinnacle of his career? A guy's got a long, illustrious career working in SP sports as a. As a comms guy. And. And his number one moment is he had to tell the assembly.

[Jeremy Schaap]

He had to have hated that.

[Dan Le Batard]

He does not. I mean, this is not a person who wants to be in the spotlight. And I would have loved to have

[Jeremy Schaap]

seen the conversation where Pat's like, writing that down or telling him to write it down and saying, go tell the media this. You go tell me this. Go tell Ira and Ethan and Barry I said this.

[Dominique Wilkins]

Dan, this is my favorite part where he. He's. Pat Riley says that statement, and Tim Donovan reads it back to him. Okay, so we're gonna tell Danny Angels that. No, no, no, no. I want you to tell him to go himself. I want you to use those words. And Tim's like, pat, we can't. Tim, I want you to use these exact words.

[Jeremy Schaap]

This is an order. Tim, it's not a request. It's not a suggestion.

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[Greg Cody]

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[Dominique Wilkins]

I'm right here.

[Dan Le Batard]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[Mike]

I've never stepped foot on that campus.

[Dan Le Batard]

I.

[Mike]

If you told me right now your life depends on it. Go to Santa Fe University and just, just, just take a picture.

[Dan Le Batard]

Jonathan Saslow I would die.

[Mike]

I don't know where it is.

[Dan Le Batard]

This is the Dan Levatar show.

[Le Batard]

Tim Donovan did see me juggle at Dan's wedding. I just want to throw that out there as the highlight of his career.

[Kenny Mayne]

Was that before or after you hit Dan Patrick in the nuts?

[Le Batard]

Just before. Lost control.

[Jeremy Schaap]

You hit Dan Patrick in the nuts?

[Le Batard]

That I was juggling. I was cooking for like 45 straight seconds.

[Kenny Mayne]

It was incredible.

[Le Batard]

I started to feel myself so I started like, you know, doing stick like talking while doing it. And then I lost control and it hit.

[Dominique Wilkins]

Now Chris, you gotta paint a picture. There's some people who are new to the show, they don't know this. At Dan's wedding didn't. It wasn't a traditional like at a wedding hall or whatever and banquet tables. It was kind of very casual and you choose where you sat. And so there was the one section that was Dan Patrick and it was Mina and it was Sarah Spain and I think Pablo sat at that section. And then there was the reject session section. That was me and Cortez and Izzy and who else was there?

[Kenny Mayne]

I was there in that section. It was the couches.

[Dominique Wilkins]

Oh, Tony, Tony was there too. And then there was the hey, we grew up with Dan section. That was Chris and Greg, Cody and all the other Cody's were there. So. And then there was the Sedano was there with Hawk, I thought, or who was he with? There was.

[Le Batard]

With Andrew Hawkins.

[Dominique Wilkins]

No, I can't remember.

[Dan Le Batard]

Andre Dawson.

[Dominique Wilkins]

Andre Dawson. There you go. Andre Dawson and some old Miami sports people. They were over there. And so we're all sitting around. It was like a. A high school cafeteria, and we're trying to see, like, how do we make this co Mingle thing. And Chris was like, I'll start juggling. And like, oh, that's a good idea. And so he's juggling and he's. He's killing, by the way. He's doing a great job. Everyone's real impressed. And then he just went one juggle too far. Dan Patrick caught one right in the nether region.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, I didn't.

[Dominique Wilkins]

You didn't know this?

[Jeremy Schaap]

No, I was busy.

[Kenny Mayne]

Oh, yeah, but you were mingling. You were mingling, Dan.

[Dan Le Batard]

I did not know that story.

[Jeremy Schaap]

But no, I did not know that. Chris Cody found a way to embarrass me while I was busy.

[Kenny Mayne]

Dan Patrick loved it, by the way, when it was going on and the Ferris wheel was rolling and Chris was just doing it. He was in awe.

[Greg Cody]

That's the rough stuff, huh?

[Kenny Mayne]

He was in awe again.

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, I. I do have an Amin question, because the Jaylen Brown part of this conversation is still. I'm still a bit hung up on that. I would like. I mean, if you could put on your executive hat one more time. And if I'm Jaylen Brown and I walk into your office and say, come on. I mean, what the hell? Like, what do you say? I'm angry. I'm hurt. This. You shop me around. You're treating me like I ain't nothing. I was the MVP of your championship team. I put this team on my back this last season while Jayson Tatum was out and that. Oh, Chris. And now this is what we're doing.

[Dominique Wilkins]

That's how it happened right there.

[Greg Cody]

What do you say?

[Dominique Wilkins]

That's exactly how it happened with Chris. What I say is, first of all, have I done the front end work? And. And that's. That to me, is so important. The front end work of building that relationship with the guy before his name is ever out there. But assuming you're saying no, assuming not, I think you just got to be frank, man. Hey, we had an opportunity to go after a generational player. We thought we could get him. It. Like a lot of people are saying you should feel. Feel very flattered that that's what. Take what it takes to get a guy like that. But that doesn't mean we're not bought in on what we can do here. And I think you have an opportunity here to really cement yourself in a way that will make us look foolish one day. That we tried to trade you for a guy who is older and perhaps on the downside of his career. So I think you got to butter him up a little bit. But you got to be. There has to be an element of truth to this, like, hey, man, this is the business and we're all trying to change, just maneuver these chess pieces so a place to get us to a place of success. But again, I would urge every front office member, future or present, who's listening to this right now, do your work now. Like be. Don't both smoke up your players asses now. Because when the day comes when you have to make those tough decisions and those decisions don't pan out, you can't go back and say, oh, no, I still love you, whatever. You have to be able to be upfront with everybody. And that's why I think the best front offices do. Do they have a very straightforward relationship with their players.

[Dan Le Batard]

Do you feel like you can answer accurately what was happening with Buck's ownership and everything there, given that at the trade deadline, the reporting was that this Heat deal was essentially done and then ownership stepped in and said, no, we're not doing this now. Now the reporting is that there's been conflict on both sides between what the general manager wanted and what the owner wanted. One of them wanted the Celtics offer offer. One of them wanted the Heat offer. To your way of looking at this, the Heat offer was better. Correct. Because it's got twice as many assets in it, even though Jaylen Brown's not one of them and it's got younger assets in it. You don't want to just replace Giannis with Jaylen Brown when you're not going to be better with Jaylen Brown than you were with Giannis.

[Dominique Wilkins]

Precisely. And that Jalen Brown's up for an extension, so you have to make a decision almost immediately to rapidly escalate his salary. And by that way, your salary commitments to me, Milwaukee's. Perhaps the path to an even better deal would have been to being insistent on Boston. No, go find us that third team. Go find us what that hall is going to be for Jalen Brown. Because I have to believe there's a great hall out there for Jalen Brown. If the Celtics chose to pursue it, Celtics probably did not want to do that because that it goes from hey, we traded you for yacht as to, hey, we sent you to Portland or We sent you to Atlanta or wherever else, and that's kind of a step too far. But I think ultimately what Milwaukee got was the thing that sets them up for the future, the best, which is enough bites at the apple to continue to build this thing. Remember, they don't have control of their picks for the foreseeable future. So they can improve their team from the draft. Prior to this deal, they could not improve their team through the draft, have trades. Who are they going to trade? AJ Green, Ryan Rollins, Nice young players, but hardly the thing that brings back a great haul. So they can improve their team by a trade. So then free agency. Who's signing in Milwaukee? Not too many people, especially Giannis isn't there. So if you look at all of those things, you're saying I can't put myself by the draft, I can't do it by trade. And free agency is going to be tough. What does Jaylen Brown do for me? It's just, I've just swapped one problem for another other. This deal at least gives them the opportunity to start to A, build through the draft through these picks and B, build through trades because Kilawe has a market, because Hawkes will have a market, because Salah Hero has a market.

[Dan Le Batard]

Do you have a theory better than Dominique's on why basketball reporting seems to get it a whole lot more wrong than baseball, football, hockey, all of them combined.

[Dominique Wilkins]

I, you know, I'm not as tapped into those other sports. So for instance, if you say, hey, name some news breakers on the basketball side side, I think I can name a, like a bunch, a dozen. Whatever you say. Hockey, how many news breakers are there in hockey? How many news breakers are there in football?

[Norman Powell]

Right.

[Dominique Wilkins]

Schefter Rapaport. Who else? Right. Mike Silver, who doesn't really break news like that anymore as much. It's so the, the when the population of people who are competing for news stories is smaller, it's easier to have a more homogenized messaging out there there because there's less competition for those stories. That, that would be my uneducated.

[Dan Le Batard]

Hockey has plenty of insiders. Yeah, they got Elliot Friedman, Emily Kaplan,

[Greg Cody]

Pierre lebron, David Dork, David Dwark.

[Dominique Wilkins]

Okay, all right. Well, I, I, I, I couldn't tell you. Actually, I have a question for you guys because this is the second biggest, second big deal, excuse me, of the week in Miami. Brady Tkachuk or Giannis and Cooper. What's a bigger deal to Miami?

[Le Batard]

Very obviously Giannis.

[Norman Powell]

Giannis.

[Dominique Wilkins]

I don't know how good Brady you guys were. Glazing Brady Kachuck. I thought, oh, my God, Done here it is not just, I don't watch hockey like that. I'm asking a question.

[DraftKings Sponsor]

We were emotionally hedging just in case the honesty.

[Le Batard]

Brady Kachuk's like Donovan Mitchell.

[Dan Le Batard]

Okay.

[Greg Cody]

Really?

[Le Batard]

Brady Kachuk is really good, but he's not Giannis. Like, Giannis is Don. Like, he's a good, good player, but you're not like super excited if he's your best guy.

[Dan Le Batard]

Let's.

[Dominique Wilkins]

You, you, you weren't. I'm sorry, real quick. You weren't on yesterday when I was on. But this now marks the second time that Giannis becomes instant. The most famous number 34 for a franchise. Snatching it away from Ray Allen.

[Dan Le Batard]

The Giannis Brady Tkachuk example is actually something I'm willing to do. Who would be the hockey equivalent of Giannis? Because it's not McDavid, but who would it be? Like, where would you. Where would you put the correct analogy on hockey greatness? And this is the equivalent of young

[Greg Cody]

Leon Draisidder will be a good comp for me.

[Mike]

So you're talking about like a guy who, like, if he were traded, this would be.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, I'm talking about a sheer immortal in hockey history that will be one of the top 50 hockey players of all time. Who's playing right now? Because I don't think it's dry Seidle. I don't think that's compliment enough.

[Jeremy Schaap]

Giannis.

[Mike]

Yeah, I think Giannis is bigger than dry side.

[Jeremy Schaap]

Dry.

[Dan Le Batard]

Seattle is a number two.

[Jeremy Schaap]

It's going to have to be the star of a team. It's going to have to be an

[Dan Le Batard]

immortal who's presently playing, who's not a Vetchkin in his 40s, who's somebody in his early 30s and is not an old player, but is somebody that's going to be regarded as one of the best of all time.

[Jeremy Schaap]

Top 50 players presently playing Nathan McKinnon.

[Dan Le Batard]

Not good enough.

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