Dan Is Happy For Pat McAfee (feat. Pablo Torre) | Hour 1

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Dan Le Batard Show — "Dan Is Happy For Pat McAfee (feat. Pablo Torre) | Hour 1"

Date: July 27, 2026
Location: Live from Elser Hotel, Downtown Miami
Guests: Pablo Torre, Bomani Jones, Kevin Clark, Tony, Mike, Adrian Wojnarowski, Jonathan Saslow, JJ Redick

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Main Theme & Purpose

Hour 1 of this wide-ranging episode revolves around:

• Dan Le Batard clarifying recent media narratives about his alleged animosity toward Pat McAfee’s ESPN deal and larger media issues.
• Breaking down internal NBA player dynamics, specifically Jayson Tatum’s perceived slight toward Jaylen Brown.
• A deep-dive into sports fame, how athletes manage (or fail to enjoy) their success, and the toxic impact of social media and online narratives—especially around figures like Caitlin Clark.
• Lighthearted and candid conversations about Miami sports culture, behind-the-scenes NBA stories, and celebrity encounters.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Media Misrepresentation & The Dan–McAfee–ESPN Discourse

(Begins ~01:34)

• Dan Le Batard addresses media headlines accusing him of being unhappy about Pat McAfee’s ESPN presence.

  • "That's not true. It's just not true. I've never said at any point that I'm unhappy with his growing influence at the network. That's not...it doesn't exist inside of me." (03:29)

• Dan actually expresses admiration for McAfee and frames his success as a win for everyone in sports media.

  • "Anything that happens good for Pat is good for us." (03:51)
  • McAfee’s business savvy—tore up a FanDuel deal for ESPN’s flexibility, which allows him to keep platform control and "pay for himself" as a talent.

• Dan and the crew critique the media’s tendency to cherry-pick and reframe statements for clicks and controversy:

  • "There are bad faith operators taking whatever you say and figuring out how to squeeze the juice out of it." (03:00)
  • Tony observes: "Pat is benefiting from a clear course correction" at ESPN post-George Floyd, with less space for minority voices, despite McAfee’s hard work and unique story. (06:36)

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2. ESPN, Diversity, and Course Correction

(see: 05:00–07:30)

• Dan laments ESPN’s regression after a brief push for diverse voices, suggesting that now:
  • "There's not a Hispanic perspective you're gonna get from anybody on ESPN on anything. And any pro-Black voices...there doesn't seem like there's the space for anyone to do it." (05:47)

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3. The Fame Paradox—Personal Encounters and Reflections

(Shakira discussion at 07:47–10:20)

• A hilarious sidetrack on meeting Shakira in person, which unfolds into a reflection on the burdens of extreme fame versus the manageable, niche celebrity status the hosts prefer.

  • “She is the single smallest person before who isn't a little person that I've ever seen… There is simply no way the world at large knows how tiny Shakira is.” (08:26–09:24)
  • Dan: "The reason I like the place that I occupy with fame being just very small, is that...in New York...it was lovely." (10:33)

• Key Insight: Extreme fame can be alienating, “wildly uncomfortable,” and requires bodyguards and literal distance from the public—something the hosts wouldn’t want.

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4. Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown, and the “Smartest Guy in the Room” Narrative

(Begins ~11:03)

• Audio from Jayson Tatum at a kids’ camp appears to subtly reference Jaylen Brown by repeated use of the phrase “smartest person in the room.”

  • Tatum: "I don't want to be the smartest person in the room. I'll learn from somebody else." (11:13)

• Speculation about whether this was a passive-aggressive jab based on previous criticisms of Brown.

  • Mike: "He's either taking a shot at Jaylen Brown or he's stupid." (11:51)
  • Dan: "Using that as a smear...bothers me. You don't think that can be an accident? Because Jayson Tatum would've been fine until that last sentence." (12:41, 13:18)

• Broader critique of how “being smart”—especially for Black athletes—gets weaponized as a coded negative (a “dog whistle short of 'uppity'”).

  • Dan: "Being smart is not a bad thing. Thinking you're smarter than everyone is a bad thing. I don't think Jaylen Brown thinks he's smarter than everyone...he's just smart." (12:56–14:06)

• Concludes with a lively debate on team leadership, mentorship cliches ("Don't be the smartest in the room"), and how sports discourse can twist positives into negatives.

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5. Miami Heat Locker Room Stories: James Johnson’s “Fight Club” Reputation

(Begins ~19:25)

• Retelling of Udonis Haslam’s story about James Johnson’s fighting prowess—the baddest man in Heat history, an MMA/kickboxing champ.

  • Dan: "James Johnson…is the baddest man in the history of the Miami Heat, Udonis Haslam included." (20:18)
  • JJ Redick (recounting Haslam's story): "JJ (Johnson) end up balling JJ...beating this man up like he ain't got no kids...and then they hugged it out." (21:14–22:28)

• Debate and humor over who the victim was, with much laughter on Heat roster deep cuts.

  • Tony: "I don't have James Johnson picking a fight with a smaller dude." (28:20)

• Johnson's family story:

  • James Johnson: “[At home]…it was, let's get in the ring real quick. Cause obviously you think you're more of a man than me…” (25:13)
  • Pablo (about Johnson’s mom): "She was the one who always threw stuff...and she was the most accurate." (26:57)

• Broader sports insight: Locker room fights—seen as routine catharsis in sports, but would be lifelong grudges in normal workplaces.

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6. LeBron James & The Sixers: The Free Agency Power Shift

(Pablo Torre segment at 32:07–34:39)

• Pablo Torre unpacks LeBron’s arrival in Philadelphia:

  • "It's just really interesting that LeBron James is saying to everybody, like, I'm transcending the idea of a franchise." (32:47)
  • "What LeBron is going to do…handling the ball…solving the problems that the Sixers have…” (34:19–34:39)
  • New magnitude for the Sixers—possibly “the most interesting Sixers team there’s ever been.” (34:34)

• On Jaylen Brown post-trade: He now has a chance to reset his legacy, but "I just think it’s very interesting that this is all, of course, because of the Celtics" and how Brad Stevens’ decisions have had gigantic ripple effects. (36:02)

• Media skepticism:

  • Dan: “Can you do that?”—doubting that winning a fourth title with a fourth franchise will silence the LeBron vs. Jordan GOAT debate. (38:12)
  • Pablo: “He’s changing the standard…who else can you plug into any team and do this with?” (38:24)

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7. The Fame & Misery of Caitlin Clark (39:11)

• Pablo Torre discusses how Caitlin Clark, despite being the biggest star in women’s basketball, cannot enjoy her success because of the toxic online environment.

  • Dan: “Do you think Caitlin Clark is having any fun?”
  • Pablo: "No. …She has become so unbelievably targeted by the Internet and all of its incentives, that it just seems miserable…” (39:32)
  • "It's being deliberately gamed…materially now, in the real world, [it] affects it. Because perception becomes reality." (43:56)

• Notable moment: Barack Obama’s personal advice to Clark (41:11–41:49)

  • Obama: "Don't let all this nonsense get you down…don't lose that joy."
  • Dan’s retort, “Yeah. Too late.” (42:01)

• Consensus: Social media has made fame “a curse,” especially for athletes who become avatars in “gender war, class war, race war, political war.” (42:23–42:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dan Le Batard:

  • “Anything that happens good for Pat is good for us.” (03:51)
  • “There are bad faith operators taking whatever you say and figuring out how to squeeze the juice out of it.” (03:00)
  • "Being smart is not a bad thing. Thinking you're smarter than everyone is a bad thing. I don't think Jaylen Brown thinks he's smarter than everyone..." (12:56–14:06)
  • "May all your wishes and dreams come true because you don't know what they look like. This strikes me as a curse.” (42:27)

• Tony:

  • "Pat is benefiting from a clear course correction, but he is spearheading that course correction as a megastar…” (06:36)

• Pablo Torre:

  • "It's just really interesting that LeBron James is saying to everybody, like, I'm transcending the idea of a franchise." (32:47)
  • On Caitlin Clark: “She has become so unbelievably targeted… it just seems miserable and it seems like she is afraid of that. And I would understand why.” (39:32)

• Barack Obama (clip):

  • “Don’t let all this nonsense get you down. ... Don’t lose that joy. The game’s the game, and you’re a Hooper.” (41:16–41:49)

• JJ Redick/James Johnson recap:

  • “JJ Beat that man up quick, man, listen. ... This man crying, sniffling. They hugged it out.” (21:14–22:28)

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Important Timestamps (MM:SS)

• 01:34: Dan begins main segment on media misrepresentation and Pat McAfee.
• 03:47: Dan clarifies his feelings on Pat McAfee and ESPN’s business structure.
• 05:47: Dan critiques ESPN’s lack of Hispanic/Black perspectives.
• 08:26–10:20: Shakira’s stature and reflections on fame.
• 11:03–15:40: Jayson Tatum’s kids camp sound, team dynamics, and Jaylen Brown “smartest guy in the room” debate.
• 19:25–28:40: Udonis Haslam, James Johnson Heat fight stories, and Johnson’s tough family.
• 32:07–34:39: Pablo Torre on LeBron to the Sixers; why this is history in the making for the franchise and the league.
• 39:11–44:39: Pablo Torre and Dan discuss the psychological toll of fame on Caitlin Clark; Barack Obama's message.

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, highly analytical, self-deprecating, and irreverent.
• The hosts are candid, sometimes venting personal frustrations or poking fun at each other, while seamlessly weaving in media criticism, sports analysis, and humor.

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Takeaways

• Dan Le Batard firmly denies media narratives of bitterness toward Pat McAfee, actually celebrating his trailblazing success at ESPN.
• There’s a larger critique of how sports media manufactures drama and can be hostile to diverse or “other” voices.
• Fame—especially in the social media era—is revealed to be burdensome and frequently joyless, even for the most talented and celebrated athletes.
• The show uses Miami Heat lore and current NBA storylines to reflect on broader themes of masculinity, leadership, and public perception in sports.
• Conversations are always layered with humor, pop culture references, and a genuine love for both sports and the people who shape its narrative.

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This summary covers the full content hour, excluding recurring ads, intros, and non-content sections, and focuses on the heart of the conversation as heard on The Dan Le Batard Show’s July 27, 2026, Hour 1 broadcast.

Transcript

[Dan LeBatard]

Summer is pretty much my favorite time to be a sports fan. The biggest soccer tournament of the summer just wrapped up. Baseball's on every night, racing never takes a weekend off. And my calendar basically revolves around first pitches, green flags, and whatever game everybody's texting about. I realized I'm the MVP of my group. I'm always the friend that says, hey, I've got it. I've got a place. I've got some ice cold Miller Lights. I got the tv. I got a big comfy blue leather couch.

Come on over.

That's the behavior of a Miller Time mvp. I almost never watch the big ones alone. I'd much rather be with my friends. And if I am alone, we're texting, we're sipping on our Miller Lites, toasting the day, toasting the big games. For me, Miller Lite is just a part of a big game routine. It's brewed for taste with simple ingredients, clean, refreshing and easy to drink, especially in the Miami heat. It's a true American pilsner. And the original light beer is since 1975. An all American summer starts with an all American beer, Miller lite. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[Jonathan Saslow]

You are listening to the Dan Lebatar show in partnership with the DraftKings sports app. Now live in all 50 states, This

[Mike]

episode of the Dan Lebatard show is presented by DraftKings Sports. DraftKings. The Crown is yours.

[Bomani Jones]

Before we get to some sound from Jayson Tatum at a kids camp that sounds like it's passively, passive aggressively directed at Jaylen Brown. I want to put in front of you guys another story that I feel misrepresents what I think, what I said and how I feel. So in the first hour I'm telling you that the New York Post is reporting that I say the heat or feel furious over something when it's a

[Dan LeBatard]

whole lot of people and they're curious, not furious. I understand how that mistake can happen, but I never said they were furious cuz I didn't talk to anybody who was furious. There was nobody I spoke to who was furious. And so that's just blatantly inaccurate to

[Bomani Jones]

say that anybody was furious according to my reporting.

[Dan LeBatard]

But the big lead had a headline and I did not read this story

[Bomani Jones]

because I have checked out for a

[Dan LeBatard]

while on reading things that are about me, at least in part because there are so many bad faith agitators who are just sort of using anything I

[Bomani Jones]

say in order to write the story that they want to write.

[Dan LeBatard]

And my entire life, Zaz, I've been

[Bomani Jones]

the one who has been arguing in defense of the media when people just do the blanket claim of the media is biased. And I say, no, some of the media is biased.

[Dan LeBatard]

But there are a great many people

[Bomani Jones]

who are aspiring to objectivity, even though it's a bit of a human illusion.

[Dan LeBatard]

And there are plenty of people who

[Bomani Jones]

are trying to not be biased. And I've been a defender.

[Dan LeBatard]

But there are many people, now more than ever, I would say, or more than in my lifetime, who are just simply bad faith operators who are taking whatever it is you say and figuring out how to squeeze the juice out of it so that they can get

[Bomani Jones]

their clicks on conflict.

[Dan LeBatard]

And so the headline on the Big Lead is something that I do not feel it says Dan LeBatard's hypocrisy is

[Bomani Jones]

clear with latest Pat McAfee ESPN claim

[Dan LeBatard]

the former ESPN personality isn't happy with

[Bomani Jones]

McAfee's growing influence at the network.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's not true. It's just not true. I've never said at any point that I'm unhappy with his growing influence at the network. That's not. And the reason I know it's not true is because it doesn't exist inside of me. It's not. It's not something that I'm sitting here thinking, feeling in any way. So I know I haven't said it because it's not something that I feel.

[Tony]

I think the opposite is true. I think you are happy for Pat and his story.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's not just that I'm happy for Pat and his story, unlike any in the history of sports media. It's also that anything that happens good for Pat is good for us. I remember how happy Pat was when we signed our deal because he's like, oh, now I know what we're worth. One of the things that no one seems to understand about the business of this and I don't know how interested people are. Even Mike last week was saying about game day, et cetera. No man, his show, three hours a day in that time slot pays for itself. Like first take is two hours. There aren't that many three hour shows that you can put in that time slot that wouldn't pay for themselves. And I am sure that ESPN gets all of his YouTube money to all of the Stuff, I'm sure, or whatever the Rev share is. I'm positive that ESPN pays him that way. Man, they listen to what McAfee did. He had a deal with FanDuel that was like our deal with DraftKings tore it up because ESPN said, come over here. We'll give you a better deal and you can keep all of your own stuff and we'll help you grow your platform. Three hours a day on our network. Then he goes there and they tear up that deal at ESPN before they have to, because Pat McAfee pays for himself. People do not understand that Stephen A. Smith and Pat McAfee, what they're being paid. ESPN recoups all that money. That's why they're paying them that way. And it's. Why they're. It's part of why they're getting rid of some of the people who don't pay for themselves that way. There are other reasons also that they are getting rid of some of those people. The thing I'm objecting to, and McAfee just happens to be in the middle of it as a pro wrestling figure, a heel, and somebody who's dropping an album, and the album is about how polarizing it is. The other thing that I'm objecting to is the course correction after George Floyd that runs. There's not a Hispanic perspective you're going to get from anybody on ESPN on anything. And any pro black voices who are talking about black things. You're not even. It doesn't seem like there's the space for anyone to do it. Even if there are a couple of people there who can do it, it doesn't seem like there's the space to do it. And then Ryan Clark goes on his podcast the Pivot and breaks down weeping because he's not allowed to be black

[Bomani Jones]

on espn, according to him.

[Tony]

So I read the whole thing. I know. I know you didn't. I think the way that the headline is framed is really unfair to you. But then I read the article and look, you said those things. And when you were saying those things, I'm like, man, someone's got to run with this because Pat's a lightning rod. And anytime you weigh in on the media, people feel like they have license, because it does. Numbies. You get the clicks. So I was like, man, this is probably not going to go a good way for Dan. They didn't misquote you. It allowed for people to take this license.

[Dan LeBatard]

The second headline is absolutely a misrepresentation

[Bomani Jones]

of what I said.

[Tony]

I agree. But I do think the hypocrisy that they're pointing to. And, man, I wish we had the juice that people thought we had, which was we rode that wave when their ideology was headed in a different direction. We got big. We were on ESPN radio. We were on. We were platformed. We got more opportunities than we ever did. And that was during a time where John Skipper was intentionally trying to diversify his lineup and bring in different people from different walks of life and represent something that was considered by the right more woke, whether that was fair or not. So we benefited from that. And I think Pat is benefiting from a clear course correction, but he is spearheading that course correction as a megastar talent who, as you said, pays for himself and works very hard and does a lot of extra shit beyond filling three hours a day on ESPN1. I think he's totally worth it. But you did give people the license to twist those.

[Bomani Jones]

I don't think it matters whether I give them the license or not. If I'm speaking freely about anything here, the license is gonna be taken on whatever angle it is that you have to get to your cliques.

[Dan LeBatard]

I was talking about, and it's part

[Bomani Jones]

of the transaction, and I get that, but I. I was talking with some friends of mine because I happened to be having breakfast in a place the other day where Shakira was lucky.

[Pablo Torre]

Now it's a bar.

[Tony]

Breakfast friends.

[Adrian Wojnarowski]

Add it to the list.

[Bomani Jones]

She is impossibly tiny.

[Mike]

Who cares?

[Bomani Jones]

What do you mean?

[Mike]

I mean, whatever.

[Dan LeBatard]

She. She's impossibly tiny.

[Kevin]

I'll put.

[Tony]

I'll put you down as not a Shakira guy tiny.

[Kevin]

I'm.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm not saying impossibly tiny.

[Tony]

Impossibly tiny.

[Bomani Jones]

How tall do you mean?

[Tony]

We can all be perfect.

[Bomani Jones]

How tall do you think she is?

[Tony]

I think she's very short. But the hips don't lie.

[Mike]

Three foot nine.

[Dan LeBatard]

She is the single smallest person before who isn't a little person that I've ever seen before this. It was Donna Shalala.

[JJ Redick]

I.

[Mike]

The first time I ever saw Donna Shalala. I wouldn't believe it.

[Jonathan Saslow]

She's not.

[Dan LeBatard]

Donna Shalala's Donna Shala.

[Mike]

She cannot be shorter.

[Dan LeBatard]

She's shorter.

[Tony]

She can't be.

[Dan LeBatard]

She's shorter.

[Mike]

I don't believe.

[Tony]

No, I don't believe you.

[Mike]

Nobody is shorter than Donna Shalala. No one come over.

[Bomani Jones]

No one come over here.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm gonna show you a picture. Tiniest person she has listed. I looked. Look it up. She's listed as she's not shorter than Donna Shalaya.

[Mike]

Shalaya.

[Dan LeBatard]

Mike, I'm gonna show you a picture right now, and you tell me if this person is or isn't just a porcelain doll.

[Mike]

Get in here, Mike.

[Dan LeBatard]

Because this is not. And she is shorter than Donna Shalala.

[Mike]

Look at it.

[Dan LeBatard]

And it looked like she was sitting in someone's lap when she was just sitting next to that person.

[Tony]

I can't tell she's sitting down.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, she's.

[Tony]

The arms are short, but that's not

[Dan LeBatard]

shorter than Donna Shalela. She's got to be 4 foot 7. I'm not kidding you.

[Jonathan Saslow]

No way.

[Tony]

She's still next to Burner Boy.

[Bomani Jones]

They.

[Dan LeBatard]

When I saw her, I thought to myself, she is perpetually placed next to people who are very small, so no one will know how small she is. There is simply no way that the world at large knows how tiny Shakira is.

[Tony]

IMDb has her at 4 foot 11 and 3 quarters. So about 5ft.

[Bomani Jones]

No, I saw.

[Dan LeBatard]

What I saw was her list at 11, 3/4, too.

[Kevin Clark]

How did IMDb get.

[Dan LeBatard]

Look, there's no. There's no one who's 5 foot 11 and a half, and there's no one who's 4 foot 11 and a half. Those are all lies. Like no quarters. There's no one. There's no one on Earth who's 511 who says they're 511 and a half or 411 and a half. That's. So that's how you know that that's a lie.

[Tony]

I have routinely stood next to Donna Shalala. There is just simply no way. But thank you for the visual of her doing Die Die at the World Cup.

[Mike]

The Internet says Donna Shalala is 5ft.

[Dan LeBatard]

I can testify Donna Chalala's hips also don't lie.

[Kevin]

Cut that up.

[Dan LeBatard]

The story, though, that I was headed toward is that's a level of fame

[Bomani Jones]

that is wildly uncomfortable. And I don't know how many people would just want that level of fame because there were bodyguards. There were a whole bunch of things around her.

[Dan LeBatard]

But I was saying to Valerie, the reason that I like the place that I occupy with fame being just very small, is that what I got in New York?

[Bomani Jones]

And it's all I got in New York.

[Dan LeBatard]

And it was lovely to get in. New York was wfat.

[Tony]

You're finally popular in New York as a noted Knicks guy.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Yeah.

[Dan LeBatard]

Let's play the Jayson Tatum sound here. Who could this be about? Like this. This thought that's in his head is only in his head for one reason. Right.

[Kevin]

Being A leader doesn't mean you know it all. Right? I. I don't know it all. I'll be the first person to say that being a leader is being comfortable with raising your hand like Michelle. I don't know. Can you explain that to me? I don't know. X, Y and Z. I want to learn, right. Somebody been around, somebody that feel like they know it all. I don't want to be around that person. Right. I don't want to be the smartest person in the room. I'll learn from somebody else.

[Tony]

That's unfortunate if he didn't mean that because he picked the exact words that were reported about Jaylen Brown being the smartest guy in the room.

[Mike]

Yeah, I mean, he's either taking a shot at Jaylen Brown or he's stupid. Because you'd have to be stupid not to understand how that's going to be perceived.

[Kevin Clark]

It's helping the kids out there, like coach Tony Fantino, cross the street, make your bed, do your thing. Like Jason Tames. Just trying to help out kids. Be like, hey, it. Don't be the cool guy. Raise your hand, say, I don't understand something. Don't try to be the smartest guy in the room.

[Tony]

It's helping.

[Bomani Jones]

As a businessman, Kevin Hart, who wants to be a billionaire, articulates many of the same thoughts of loving to walk into rooms and wanting to be in rooms where he's not the smartest person because he wants to do learning from people who are smarter than him.

[Dan LeBatard]

But the thing that's being attached to

[Bomani Jones]

Jaylen Brown, as far as I could

[Dan LeBatard]

tell, Colin Cowherd, who has exactly zero

[Bomani Jones]

Celtic sources, was making that argument, saying that Jaylen Brown is giving off that he thinks he's the smartest guy in every room.

[Dan LeBatard]

There hasn't been anyone else saying that. And I've told you before, I'm. I'm really uncomfortable with some of that analysis because it's a dog will dog

[Bomani Jones]

whistle a couple of steps short from

[Dan LeBatard]

uppity, like, oh, you think you're that smart?

[Bomani Jones]

You're not.

[Dan LeBatard]

That you're not that smart.

[Bomani Jones]

Like, it's a.

[Dan LeBatard]

Being smart is not a bad thing. Thinking you're smarter than everyone is a bad thing. I don't think Jaylen Brown thinks he's smarter than everyone. I think Jaylen Brown is just smart. And so using that as a smear, using that as a scalpel to cut somebody, it bothers me. But you, you don't think that can be an accident because Jason Tatum would have been fine until that Last sentence, smartest guy. I don't need to be the smartest

[JJ Redick]

guy in every room.

[Dan LeBatard]

I think he would have gotten away with. Nobody picks up that. That sound if he doesn't use that as the last sentence.

[Tony]

We did play audio of Jaylen Brown responding to that criticism, and he didn't exactly deny it. He was just like, yeah, that's not really a high bar. Athletes are dumb.

[Bomani Jones]

He did do that.

[Dan LeBatard]

He. I am the smartest guy in every locker room.

[Tony]

He didn't deny that He. He thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, but that's just because athletes are dumb.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, I don't know whether you guys think.

[Bomani Jones]

I don't know how you guys think of Draymond Green. I actually think that Draymond Green is very bright and also happens to have a temper problem, but I happen to think he's bright. And maybe you don't think that he says, no, no, Jaylen Brown.

[Dan LeBatard]

Jaylen Brown's really smart. It's book smart. It's street smart. It's all the smart. It's intellectual iq. It's.

[Bomani Jones]

It's emotional intelligence.

[Dan LeBatard]

Like, it's all the kinds of smart, which is not something that I associate necessarily with Jayson Tatum. And I do think that smart, too smart can be unlikable and threatening. I think that both of those things are in play where just. I don't think it's a flaw to be too smart. I don't look at that as something that you can use to wield and cut somebody with. You're too smart. But it. But for people who aren't, it can be threatening. And so you think what there. You think he's. Absolutely. No question about it. It's not a mistake. He's telling a bunch of kids, I'm not Jaylen Brown. That you think that's what he's teaching the kids. Don't be Jaylen Brown.

[JJ Redick]

Be me.

[Dan LeBatard]

You think that's his message?

[Mike]

I think he's doing both. I think the advice that he's given there is sound advice. I think he's giving good advice. Those kids. And at the same time, one of the criticisms during this whole thing between Jaylen Brown and the Celtics was this is before the trade. Why hasn't Jayson Tatum said anything? He's completely quiet. Why is he not defending Jaylen Brown here? Oh, well, it must be because he actually agrees with the Celtics and he aligns with management, that it's kind of enough of Jaylen Brown. And the first time that was. Have we heard from Jayson Tatum before this camp. The first time we hear from him upon giving sound advice to kids, he's also using the exact same words that would lead us to believe that he's talking about his former teammate.

[Tony]

I should say not wanting to be the smartest person in the room is a noted cliche. It is great mentorship advice to give to kids. It is a credo that I live by not wanting to be the smartest person in the room. I want to surround myself with people that are smarter than me, and I learned that from a cliche that was handed down to me from my dad. So I know that you can look into this, but is this a curiously furiously situation? He's just espousing a noted cliche.

[Bomani Jones]

The same way LeBron was when he said to trust the process at Fanatics Fest and then ends up in Philadelphia all right, friends.

[Quince Sponsor]

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[Tony]

at a party or at a tailgate

[Dan LeBatard]

where everything just sort of clicks?

[Kevin Clark]

I know it well. It's usually when I show up, everybody goes crazy.

[Tony]

Yeah, you usually take all the credit for it. But it's because Tony usually walks in with Cuervo walking like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cuervo is a thing that turns hanging out into this is the night.

[Kevin Clark]

It has that effect on people.

[Tony]

It does. You usually take the credit for it, but again, it's the Cuervo effect.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's like that moment in a big

[Tony]

game where everyone in the crowd just

[Dan LeBatard]

starts standing up, hooting and hollering.

[Tony]

Keep it Cuervo.

[Dan LeBatard]

Cuervo, baby.

[BetterHelp Sponsor]

This episode is sponsored by Better Help. We've gotten a lot better at talking about our mental health than we used to, right? People are more open about it, conversations are happening, and that's a really good thing. But asking for help, that still seems to be the hard part. Better helps. 2026 State of Stigma report surveyed 2,000Americans, and if it revealed that 85% of Americans believe getting support is wise, yet 74 say society discourages people from doing so. Think about it. Most of us believe it's the right thing to do, but we still worry about what other people might think. Maybe the best way to change that is to make those conversations a little bit more normal. Normal. BetterHelp supports fully licensed therapists in the US and they handle the matching process for you. You fill out a short questionnaire, and if it's not the right fit, you can switch at any time. Don't let stigma stand in the way of support. Start therapy with BetterHelp. Sign up and get 10 off at betterhelp.com DLB that's better. H-E-L-P.com DLB Dan Levatar what is the

[Dan LeBatard]

worst part of the life?

[Jonathan Saslow]

Jonathan Saslow

[Pablo Torre]

the worst part of the life of what?

[Jonathan Saslow]

This is the Dan Levatar Show.

[Bomani Jones]

Another basketball story that Udonis Haslam was resurrected this week because I guess we were talking about Bam and Tyler and fights, and Udonis Haslam was talking about how common fights are. Pat Riley, when he sat down with us here, also was talking about how common fights are.

[Dan LeBatard]

It was actually Ray Allen who taught

[Bomani Jones]

me a great deal about the idea of, hey, we're not in our feelings around here. Like, if something needs to be solved,

[Dan LeBatard]

two people will go to a fight and then the fight will be over and it's solved. Like, it's not. I would think that if any of us around here got into a fist fight with each other and somebody just took an unholy beating, I would think that whoever took the unholy beating would hold onto it for the rest of their lives. That's not quite how sports works. And so you Donis Haslam was Telling

[Bomani Jones]

the story about James Johnson.

[Dan LeBatard]

James Johnson, for those of you who do not know, is the baddest man in the history of the Miami Heat, Udonis, Haslam included.

[Bomani Jones]

There's never been somebody who has been

[Dan LeBatard]

more actually menacing than James Johnson.

[Bomani Jones]

James Johnson, also a great reference point

[Dan LeBatard]

when ZSASS thinks that our athletes could win all of the soccer games if all our athletes played soccer. James Johnson, an unbelievable athlete who was just okay at basketball, just okay compared to other people at basketball.

[Tony]

I had him as LeBron James.

[Dan LeBatard]

Johnson should have been one of your top 52 sports stars. One of them should have been.

[Bomani Jones]

I believe he's undefeated in mma.

[Dan LeBatard]

I believe. I believe he has fought a couple of professional fights, and I don't believe that he has lost. But you don't. As Haslam is telling the story, and we don't know who the teammate was of there being an issue with James Johnson, and the way it was solved is outside afterward, okay? And then James Johnson just beat the holy hell out of that teammate.

[JJ Redick]

I don't say no name, but somebody on our team called J.J. a. J.J. said. J.J. said, listen, this one up in the locker, this J.J. say, hey, you got to see me after practice. Everybody say, oh. Everybody say, hey, you know, that. That's the. That's like, man, stall him out. D. Bo, man, hold on, man, stall him out. Not here. J.J. was already. His mind was made up. He said, not here. That. Not here. Hey, listen, let me tell you something.

[Dan LeBatard]

If someone tells you they got to

[James Johnson]

see me after, man, listen.

[JJ Redick]

Hey, listen, let me tell you something. People with neck tats, you know, all right here and all that, I said, yeah, you off the chart. Hey, man, listen, you off your rocker? Anyway, let me tell you something, man, listen. That man called that man. I looked at this, I said, man, JJ don't do that. He said, man, listen, stay out of this. Stay out of this. Bam. The funniest part about it, dog. J.J. end up balling J.J. i'm talking about beating this man up like he ain't got no kids, though. JJ Beat that man up quick, man, listen. Towel slide. You know our equipment manager, Rob. Shout out. Rob, man, shout out, Rob, man. Rob, get in here. Hey, man, get away from my towels. You messing up my towels. And I'm just looking at this man following this man up, and I'm like, damn, listen, J.J. got done. He said, you all right? And it walked out. Walked out. This man crying, sniffling. They hugged it out.

[Bomani Jones]

I don't believe sports are like most workplaces in this regard, James. Johnson also was somebody when the basketball got lodged between the rim and the backboard one time, impressed everyone because he kicked it out instead of knocked it out with his hand.

[Mike]

What?

[Bomani Jones]

Yeah, he did it with his foot.

[Dan LeBatard]

He kicked the ball out.

[Bomani Jones]

I don't. I didn't think that a foot put on the pole at LeBatard show. Can anyone touch the rim with their foot? Yes or no? Can anyone in the world touch the basket a 10 foot basketball rim with their foot? Because James Johnson dislodged a basketball that was stuck between the rim and the backboard.

[Kevin Clark]

I think Wemby did it this year.

[Kevin]

Year.

[Kevin Clark]

So anybody other than that? I don't think so, but Wemby, I think did it this year.

[Mike]

With his foot.

[Kevin Clark]

With his foot. He kicked it out from where exactly? That place is between the.

[Mike]

Get the hell out of here.

[Kevin Clark]

I'm pretty sure Wemby did it. By the way, James Johnson, 27 0. His fight record, 200 in kickboxing. 70 in. Mmm.

[Mike]

I want to know who the teammate was that he beat up.

[Kevin]

Anyway.

[Dan LeBatard]

So there were three M's.

[James Johnson]

Yeah. This is.

[Kevin Clark]

Mmm.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's a bigger league than just merely smaller, smaller leagues. Mmma.

[Kevin Clark]

Less known.

[Dan LeBatard]

James Johnson had a Heat player calling for his mom. Ma, ma, ma, ma, ma. Who was the Heat player?

[Bomani Jones]

Do we have any guesses? Do we have. Do we want to go through some rosters? Do we want Pablo Torre to find out?

[Dan LeBatard]

Do. Would you like to know who James

[Bomani Jones]

Johnson was beating up with such ferocity that they just curled into a ball sniveling.

[Kevin Clark]

So what we're looking at here is the Bam Adebayo story of him being a rookie. Right where James Johnson was calling him 13 because he hadn't passed the conditioning test yet. So I'm going to J. To his rookie year where James Johnson and Udonis Haslam were both on the team, which is 2017, 2018 MIAM roster. And I'm looking across here. I don't think it was Dragic. Could it be the man with the golden arm? You think Wayne Ellington said something to. To James Johnson?

[Mike]

I don't think so.

[Kevin Clark]

We got Tyler Johnson. You think Tyler.

[Mike]

I think it could be Tyler Johnson.

[Adrian Wojnarowski]

You think it'd be Tyler?

[Mike]

Yeah, I do. I do.

[Tony]

What about Rodney?

[Kevin Clark]

I was thinking Rodney.

[Adrian Wojnarowski]

Luke Babbitt, Rodney Buford,

[Mike]

Rodney Magruder. Oh, whatever. Like these are famous Miami Heat names. Rodney.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's Rodney. Don't you remember Draymond?

[Tony]

You don't think it was Hasan?

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Tony]

That's a leader.

[Mike]

Oh, I don't know no, but he would have had Hassan balled up.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Yeah.

[James Johnson]

I don't know.

[Kevin Clark]

Hasan's a big boy, dude.

[Tony]

All right, I'm gonna reach out to has Deion Waiters.

[Bomani Jones]

I'm gonna start reaching out to some people now, too.

[Mike]

I feel like it could be Deon Waiters.

[Adrian Wojnarowski]

Derrick Jones.

[Mike]

I got two that it could be.

[Dan LeBatard]

While we're looking this up, Roy, please

[Bomani Jones]

play the stories of James Johnson on with us.

[Dan LeBatard]

Just what he grew up around, why

[Bomani Jones]

his family is a family of fighters. We've got a handful of stories on this front. Play one of them while I'm looking.

[Dan LeBatard]

Did you know better as a kid than to talk back to your mother or your father?

[James Johnson]

Nah. Our opinion meant little to nothing. It was their way or nothing. And, you know, if you disagreed or you wanted to backtalk, it wasn't no normal swat on the butt or no take off his belt or get a switch. It was none of that. It was, let's get in the ring real quick. Cause obviously you think you're more of a man than me, or you think you could beat me up to talk to me like this. If you want to talk to me like this, then you must think you could beat me up.

[Pablo Torre]

What's the worst l. That one of them caught? The one that let you know that you didn't want those problems.

[James Johnson]

My older brother, the oldest one, he started talking to my dad and things like that. You know, they got a little heated, and they put on the gloves. They was about to spar whatnot. And my brother had bowed to my dad, which is a respect thing. And that wasn't the intentions of what my dad was going in to fight him for. He's going in there to fight you. Cause you broke respect. I don't think you supposed to skip the bow after that. That's like dabbing somebody, you know, that's like shaking someone's hand and they punch you real quick or something. That's exactly what happened. He bowed and his head happened to be down, eyes happened to be down. And it was the meanest uppercut I think I've ever witnessed. I don't even think Iron Mike had

[Dan LeBatard]

an uppercut like that.

[Tony]

Regrettable chuckle fest over the child abuse. It play on for me.

[Bomani Jones]

The child abuse.

[Dan LeBatard]

You had it played on before. He made the allegation your play on. You allowed it to play on before anyone heard him actually say the words child abuse that Bomani and I were laughing at. Let's play the sound. There's a. There's better sound than that because I believe that the toughest.

[Bomani Jones]

You talk about child abuse.

[Dan LeBatard]

I believe that the toughest person in the Johnson family was Mom.

[Bomani Jones]

Give us the most memorable story involving mom being a disciplinarian. It sounds like you probably have some good ones.

[James Johnson]

She was the one who always threw stuff. It was. It was. No matter what was close to her, you know, knife, ninja, star, broom, pants. She was the one. And she was the most accurate. You know, I never seen her. And she knew she couldn't catch us. We always ran from her. But that's why she got good at throwing, I guess. That's my best story. My brother got hit. My brother got hit with a. That was the first thing in front of her was a knife. I'm not saying my mother is dangerous or crazy, but she was eating her dinner. That was the first thing that was in front of her that she saw when she wanted to get my little brother. And she picked up and threw it. And I don't think she thought she was gonna hit him, but she stuck my little brother. And after that, you know, he screams. He cries what not. And then she starts crying because she didn't mean to do it. And that got to be the most memorable one where she had to be a disciplinary.

[Bomani Jones]

Brandishing a butter knife. I'm gonna pretend that that was a butter knife. I prefer than one of the sharper.

[Tony]

Could have been plastic.

[Bomani Jones]

Wear a spork.

[Kevin]

Who?

[Bomani Jones]

Tyler Johnson's a good guess.

[Mike]

I got Tyler Johnson or Dion. Waiter.

[Kevin Clark]

Deion's a good one.

[Mike]

I feel good about those two, although

[Bomani Jones]

I don't know that they would say. I don't know that those two would be.

[Dan LeBatard]

Hasan is the one that would be

[Bomani Jones]

unwise enough to say that to James Johnson.

[Tony]

And I don't have James Johnson picking a fight with a smaller dude.

[Mike]

But Hassan wouldn't be balled up. He's too big.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Sure.

[Bomani Jones]

He would have been, I think, against

[Dan LeBatard]

someone who was 270 in kickboxing. I mean, it's clearly someone who knows how to fight.

[BetterHelp Sponsor]

Right?

[Dan LeBatard]

27:0 is pretty good record.

[Adrian Wojnarowski]

And I feel like it's more noteworthy to say they were balled up. If it's an impre. If it's Tyler Johnson, I don't even need. It's obvious that he'd be balled up.

[Kevin Clark]

He didn't say his name. So that's the thing. James Johnson, 6 foot 7. So you're saying you. We're going to eliminate everybody under 6

[Dan LeBatard]

foot 7 back to school.

[Mike]

Means my boys are back to making their lunches every morning. And I like knowing they're reaching for Boar's Head. At the deli counter, Boar's Head favorites are freshly sliced to order, made with premium ingredients, and give my boys the quality protein they need to power through busy school days. It's one less thing to worry about because I know they're putting together a lunch that tastes great and keeps them going for lunchtime inspiration. Visit boar's head.combacktoschool and for Boar's Head Head to your local deli counter.

[Dan LeBatard]

Summer is pretty much my favorite time to be a sports fan. The biggest soccer tournament of the summer just wrapped up, Baseball's on every night, racing never takes a weekend off, and my calendar basically revolves around first pitches, green flags, and whatever game everybody's texting about. I realized I'm the MVP of my group. I'm always the friend that says, hey, I've got it. I've got a place. I've got some ice cold Miller Lights. I got the tv. I got a big comfy blue leather couch.

Come on over.

That's the behavior of a Miller Time mvp. I almost never watch the big ones alone. I'd much rather be with my friends. And if I am alone, we're texting. We're sipping on our Miller Lites. Toasting the day. Toasting the big games. For me, Miller Lite is just a part of a big game routine. It's brewed for taste with simple ingredients, clean, refreshing and easy to drink, especially in the Miami heat. It's a true American Pilsner and the original light beer since 1975. An all American summer starts with an all American virgin beer Miller light. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Light pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[Adrian Wojnarowski]

You can always tell when a new business trend shows up, because suddenly everyone starts talking like they invented it. Right now, it's AI. Every company says says they have an AI strategy. Every consultant says they have an answer. Meanwhile, most businesses are still out here trying to figure it all out. And that's why there's NetSuite Next. You probably already know about NetSuite, the AI powered business management suite trusted by more than 43,000 customers. It securely connects your financials, inventory, commerce, HR, and CRM into a single source of truth. But NetSuite Next takes it even further. AI is built into everything you do do it it services custom insights. Throughout your day. AI agents help solve problems and handle routine work. And when you have a question, you can simply ask it like you're talking to a colleague. NetSuite is customized for a wide range of industries, so it supports the way your business works. Whether your company earns millions or even hundreds of millions, it's time for NetSuite Next, where your business meets AI for the first time ever. You can try NetSuite Next for free. If your revenues are at least seven figures, go to NetSuite AI DLB. Built for every industry, ready for every boardroom. NetSuite AI DLB.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Dan Levitar.

[Mike]

The packers winner. The Bear lose. Bears lose.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Jonathan Saslow.

[Mike]

You want to know how that. What were the kids doing?

[Jonathan Saslow]

This is the Dan Levatar Show.

[Dan LeBatard]

Pablo Torre is there.

[Bomani Jones]

We are welcoming in Pablo Torre.

[Dan LeBatard]

An assortment of things to talk to.

[Bomani Jones]

Pablo Torre finds out about. Pablo Torre finds out all the things. He's a Pulitzer Prize winner and Edward R. Murrow winner and an assortment of other kinds of winners, but not a

[Dan LeBatard]

winner of an Emmy.

[Bomani Jones]

It's a weird thing. You'd think if you can win competing

[Dan LeBatard]

against everybody in the world over something, that you'd be able to beat the people at the sports Emmy, but nope, nope. Sports Emmy.

[Bomani Jones]

Harder to win than a Pulitzer. Didn't have that before Pablo Torre started finding out.

[Dan LeBatard]

First things first. The trust, the process. Philadelphia Sixers, LeBron. What did you make of all of that?

[Bomani Jones]

What were the interesting parts of it to you?

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, there's a lot. Hi. Hi, Dan. Thanks for that intro. There's a lot interesting, obviously, and I don't even want to go to the fact that the process sort of started with, you know, this whole thing that I wrote about. I'm gonna skip that. I think in the present tense. It's just really interesting that LeBron James is saying to everybody, like, I'm transcending the idea of a franchise. Like, I don't think there's ever been a connection that's as meager between a player and the team he's joining than the Sixers and LeBron James. And so it's this reminder that whatever you thought he was going to get peer pressured really into, and whatever you thought his entertainment vehicle was going to be, he is reasserting in an interesting way, I think the idea that he is bigger than any single team. And this whole thing in which he's going to live potentially in New York and commute to Philly, which JJ Redick, his former coach with the Lakers did when he was a Sixer, that did not go great in Philly. But even the basic bandying about of like he might not even live in Philly is so funny to me because it immediately severs that you would say like easy PR win, but no, he's not going to do that. And so in every regard, and you go down the list, right, in the ways in which this is shocking, it is LeBron James saying, I'm transacting in a way that no one has ever transacted before. And whatever you thought of like Devin Durant as like the mercenary, just remember that's, that's my legacy. And he is unapologetic about it, which raises lots of follow up questions.

[Bomani Jones]

It's been a long time since the Sixers were really interesting in their franchise's history. You have Charles Barkley, you have Allen Iverson, you have Moses Malone and Dr. J. Is this the most interesting Sixers team there's ever been?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Yeah. And that's with all due respect to lots of interesting, both in dysfunction and height previous Sixers teams, I don't know how you argue against it. What LeBron is going to do, by the way, like as he load manages himself and Embiid load manages himself during the regular season, is he's going to be the guy who is handling the ball. And so LeBron James, in a postseason ball handling and solving the problems that the Sixers have because that was their problem, who's going to run this offense as effectively a point? Point, fill in the blank noun, whatever. Point, center point, power forward. That combined with the fact that I think what you're seeing, what you saw in New York, the ability for a starved team to actually go out and galvanize human beings in a flesh and blood way out in the street that's on the table for Philly right there as say whatever you want. And all you guys have said many things about Philly in the past and I get them all. That is a city that is desperate in a way that provides upside. It is also desperate in a way that provides immediate and obvious downside. And that's what's interesting, is that there is a huge delta between the best version of this and the worst. And I don't think there is as big a gap as in any other city that he considered.

[Bomani Jones]

How should Jaylen Brown feel about the last eight weeks?

[Pablo Torre]

I think he has the ability to reset. He has the ability to re spin whatever his position should have been in the first place. Jalen Brown, you know, not wanting to Be the sidekick. That being the story of him, he now can prove that actually he's here to do the opposite if he wants. I just think it's very interesting that this is all, of course, because of the Celtics. That's the domino here. The domino was what Brad Stevens decided to not do. And so you get Jaylen Brown in this position that enables LeBron James to be enticed, it seems, on one level, but Jaylen Brown right now can go on Twitch and Stream and be very excited about the idea that now he's on an actual contender and not make it about how smart he is or how much he wants to be one. A and historically, what is extra interesting, of course, is that Jaylen Brown has not done that. And so you also have the incredible explosiveness of that personality here too. So opportunity that I don't think he's going to take.

[Bomani Jones]

Do the rest of you imagine when this news breaks, Brad Stevens being Homer Simpson backing into the bushes, being like, oh my God, what?

[Dan LeBatard]

What did I, what did I do? What did I do here?

[Tony]

This really spun out out of control for Boston after leading in that series. Crazy turn of events.

[Dan LeBatard]

But seriously, the news gets to him to gets to Brad Stevens. Do you think he just realizes, wait a minute, this happened because I sent Jaylen Brown there?

[Kevin Clark]

They did what now?

[Tony]

Do what now?

[Dan LeBatard]

That is what happens, right?

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, Dan. I like to imagine Brad Stevens just like for the first time logging on to the Internet and seeing what Twitch is and watching like five seconds of Jaylen Brown's stream and being like, we can't do this. And then, you know, two weeks later he wakes up and suddenly he's playing against LeBron James in the division, which is not ideal for Brad.

[Kevin]

Yeah, do I know.

[Dan LeBatard]

Can you guys look up for me, please, whether I just saw a headline,

[Bomani Jones]

Charles Barkley says that if LeBron wins in Philly, then he is indeed the goat. And I want to know if he's quoted correctly. Cuz I'm suspicious of headlines today for a number of different reasons. And I just don't believe that you can do that. Do you think you can do that?

[Dan LeBatard]

Do you think that if LeBron James

[Bomani Jones]

wins a four title for a four team, something that no one has ever done, all of a sudden we're going to change the ridiculous Michael Jordan conversation

[Dan LeBatard]

we've been having for two decades, but

[Pablo Torre]

he's changing the standard, right? I think that. Look, if you're going to justify this narratively, you have to lean into the idea that LeBron is rejecting how you Measure greatness historically. It's not about how many rings. It's how hard it is to do it at four different places. And so again, I haven't seen or heard what Barkley said there. So I wait the fact check, but that would be the argument is that who else can you plug in to any team and do this with? And so that would be the narrative case for why this is actually the end of the documentary as opposed to this very strange twist or this sequel that no one really wants. You'd argue that it's because of that specific reason.

[Bomani Jones]

I want to move over to the WNBA and a conversation you and I were having briefly in New York.

[Dan LeBatard]

If I gave you a series of

[Bomani Jones]

hypotheticals and made your life Caitlin Clark's life in basketball.

[Dan LeBatard]

Most people who love sports would take

[Bomani Jones]

that life and think it fun to make shots from the logo during the All Star game and be the biggest star in her sport.

[Dan LeBatard]

Do you think Caitlin Clark is having any fun?

[Pablo Torre]

No. No. I think the bar. The standard for what fun is now is can other people who like you talk about you online without feeling like they are not making a grave error? Can you actually talk about Caitlin Clark in a way in public that even begins to express we enjoy her. And I think she has become so unbelievably targeted by the Internet and all of its incentives that it just seems miserable and it seems like she is afraid of that. And I would understand why. I mean, I have talked to. And I'm one of these people, by the way. I think she's so fun to watch. It seems like, of course, like, why would you have a problem with her being this celebrity? And then you go through how she has talked about on the Internet and it's the actual bot campaigns that use her in a way that makes whatever it is to be famous right now the worst version of it that's ever existed in human history. So no. Seems pretty bad, actually. Despite all of the.

[Barack Obama]

That's crazy.

[Dan LeBatard]

You realize all her dreams are coming true. And she can't enjoy all her dreams coming true because. Because she's at the center of a

[Bomani Jones]

gender war and a class war and

[Dan LeBatard]

a race war and political war. Political war. Let's play this.

[Pablo Torre]

There's like actual, like, bills being proposed. Like, we gotta protect Caitlin Clark. And it's just like, this is a bit much.

[Bomani Jones]

Let's play this video of her meeting Barack Obama and just wanting a photo.

[Dan LeBatard]

None of the other stuff. Oh, hey, Caitlin.

[Barack Obama]

How are you? Really nice to meet you.

[Dan LeBatard]

You're great.

[Barack Obama]

You're Fantastic.

[Dan LeBatard]

Thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

Thank you.

[Barack Obama]

Don't let all this nonsense get you down. You know, I always say one of the things that was luckiest for me was I didn't get famous till I was, like, 45. So I was an old man. I mean, you're my daughter's age. They're not to have that much, you know, burden and nonsense. So don't lose that joy. The game's like the game, and. And you're a Hooper. And then you.

[Dan LeBatard]

I try sometimes.

[Barack Obama]

No, you always hoop, and you're on

[Bomani Jones]

a nice little run right now.

[Kevin Clark]

Yeah, we are.

[Adrian Wojnarowski]

We are.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. You want to get a picture?

[Barack Obama]

Yeah, come on.

[Bomani Jones]

She just wanted the picture.

[Adrian Wojnarowski]

She's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks for all that. Can I get a photo?

[Mike]

It's pretty awesome, though, that he said that to her right away. Don't let all the nonsense get to you. That's a really cool thing for him to say to her.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah. Too late.

[Bomani Jones]

It's all gotten to her. Ruined everything.

[Dan LeBatard]

We've ruined everything.

[Bomani Jones]

Everything. It's hard to imagine, Pablo, that we've ruined all of it. You make shots from the logo. You're unprecedented. And people want you to be better, and they want you to be different. They want you to be an activist, and they want you to be an assortment of other things that you may or may not be. It really is puzzling to me, Pablo,

[Dan LeBatard]

that your dreams would come true. It's the gypsy curse, right?

[Bomani Jones]

May all your wishes and dreams come true because you don't know what they look like. And this is what this strikes me as a curse. This does not seem like it's fun

[Dan LeBatard]

except for when she's playing, and maybe not even then, given that she's got seven technicals and she's mad at everybody.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, I want to make this even more focused because the on the court stuff in which players are mad at her, and there is a racial dynamic, a flipping of the majority, minority sort of power hierarchy that is complicated enough, but that's not new. Like, that is stuff that athletes in the past have dealt with. The thing that Barack Obama, former President of the United States, is expressing genuine empathy for is like the idea of, man, it's rough out there on social media for you. And I think that is so interesting, because nowhere I would say politics is right behind, but, like, sports is the thing that's most saturated social media. And really what we're talking about more than anything is Twitter. And so there is this amplification and this fun house opposite. Fun house, this nightmare house of horrors. Dynamic to you are being used by bots that people don't know are bots that get aggregated by accounts that people don't know are editorially manipulating whatever the actual meaning of the thing even is. And it's being circulated in a way that creates an impression that feeds on itself. And so you have people who just genuinely don't want to engage in a conversation about her, like, reasonable people, I am one of them, just won't tweet about Caitlin Clark. Not because there isn't anything to say. It's just because it's like entering a briar patch and then getting mad at yourself for being stuck. Like, wouldn't you rather just not engage? And so. So that is the experience. It's being deliberately gamed by people that the platform we choose to trust, that platform isn't doing anything about it. And so you just have to sit there and watch your life being discussed in ways that materially now, in the real world, affect it. Because perception becomes reality. And that is, yeah, when you ask, like, we did it in that regard, but broadly speaking, we online did do this. I think it's an Internet story.

[Bomani Jones]

Pablo, stay there. I want to play for you some Wolf Blitzer video. And I want to ask you about Mike Lombardi as well, who's gotten paid leave at North Carolina. Stay there and we'll come back with you.