Did Stephon Marbury Put A Hit Out On Wemby? | Hour 2

Summary

Podcast Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Episode: Did Stephon Marbury Put A Hit Out On Wemby? | Hour 2
Date: June 10, 2026

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Overview

In this high-energy episode, Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, Greg Cody, Zaslow, and other contributors dissect the escalating drama of the NBA Finals, focusing on Victor Wembanyama ("Wemby")'s quick transition from rookie sensation to public enemy number one in New York. With sparks flying after Wemby's controversial flagrant foul on Jalen Brunson, the show explores how narratives build sports villains, the reactionary world of New York fandom, and what it means to be hated in the NBA spotlight. The discussion is peppered with humor, pop culture references, and memorable rants—including the viral moment when Stephon Marbury "puts a hit" out on Wemby.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

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1. How Narratives Shift NBA Villains

Timestamps: 01:15–05:37

• Dan explores how his way of watching sports has evolved from focusing on sociology and storylines to granular analysis, and questions how storylines can turn stars into villains so rapidly.
• Dan: “The more interesting drill down for me is... they're playing the way the Spurs would prefer that they play. And I would say that's dangerous.” (01:40)
• The crew debates the significance of advanced stats (Brunson's 1,590 dribbles), questioning if they actually matter in the playoff context.

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2. The Flagrant Foul and the Villain Creation

Timestamps: 03:05–11:59

• New York fans and media are consumed with the non-flagrant call on Wembanyama, debating whether Brunson flopped or Wemby crossed a line.
• Zaslow: “If [Wemby] gets another flagrant foul here, that’s three points. He’s one away from being suspended. Are you telling me... the Knicks fans want to win finals games by Wembanyama getting suspended? That’s really how you want it?” (04:58)
• The show skewers how quickly New York turns an opposing star into a villain, comparing Wemby's developing hate-status to that of Trae Young and Reggie Miller.
• Dan: “We’re already at most hated person in the history of the city in sports not named Reggie Miller.” (10:11)
• Is Wemby bothered by the villain role? Consensus: He doesn’t mind it.

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3. David Jacoby’s Rant and Knicks’ Obsession with Hate

Timestamps: 07:29–10:11

• Dan shares a passionate, over-the-top David Jacoby clip where Jacoby rants about genuinely disliking Wemby—“I cannot stand this guy. I hate his outfits. I hate his face.” (07:55)
• Jacoby emphasizes “respecting” Wemby’s game but loathing his presence, capturing how passions boil in New York sports.
• Discussion turns to emotional investing and irrationality of Knicks’ fans, who finally have something to believe in after decades of pain.

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4. Stephon Marbury’s ‘Hit’ and the Old Knicks Mentality

Timestamps: 16:18–21:21

• A clip plays of Stephon Marbury using fiery, violent metaphors (“put a knife in his neck”) to describe how Knicks should respond to Wemby, raising both laughter and concern.
• Marbury (clip): “You better put that knife in his neck. All right? That’s what it’s at.” (17:35)
• Panel jokes about Marbury’s outsized rhetoric and the nostalgia for ‘90s tough-guy Knicks basketball.
• Dan: “Marbury wasn't that team's tough guy… It's weird to hear these old Knicks… wanting to get back to Larry Johnson basketball.” (18:20)
• Current NBA is contrasted with the past—no place for “goons,” and sending someone to ‘take out’ a star would be disastrous in the Finals.

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5. Who is the Modern NBA Goon?

Timestamps: 20:05–23:09

• The group laughs at the idea of sending role players like Jose Alvarado or Jeremy Sohan as “goons.”
• Dan (sarcastic): "You think it’s a good idea in New York today with everything happening in the world to send a brown guy out to create violence in the movie?" (23:09)
• Amusing debate on which Knicks would (or wouldn’t) fill the ‘tough guy’ role.

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6. Villainy at Madison Square Garden: Building Legacy

Timestamps: 21:25–26:02

• Comparison to other MSG villains—Reggie Miller, Trae Young, and others who relished the spotlight of boos.
• Dan: “There’s no finer way to do it than to be the villain… and it’s silent there.” (21:55)
• The office acknowledges the immense stakes and “currency of power” built not just by popularity, but by overcoming hate, referencing LeBron’s career arc.

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7. Basketball Tactics: Brunson, Game Flow, Series Analysis

Timestamps: 24:44–27:35

• Dan attempts 45 seconds of serious basketball talk about Brunson’s shooting woes and stagnation in the Knicks’ offense—“He’s shooting 50% at the rim… 21% mid-range… 31% from three, six percentage points below his average.” (24:54)
• Panel agrees the Spurs are dictating the play, making the Knicks beat them on their terms by forcing isolation ball.
• The crew argues the Knicks must run more offense through Karl-Anthony Towns (“Cat”) and improve ball movement to open up scoring.
• Jeremy Sohan: “When Jalen Brunson’s just dribbling and everybody’s standing around… you become a stagnant offense… So when you run it through Cat… that's when you see things go well.” (26:59)

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8. The Unique Theater of NBA Hatred

Timestamps: 32:09–36:54

• The segment delves into “sports hatred” vs. real hatred, and how quickly the line can blur for fans—especially when joy seems within reach.
• Panel reflects on the emotional danger of star athletes walking into hostile environments—“Are we seeing sports hatred or something deeper?”
• Zaslow: “If there is a person that is taking away our happiness we've never felt before, that's real hate.” (36:25)

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9. Wemby’s Mindset and Lead-by-Example Mentality

Timestamps: 38:38–41:09

• Dan is impressed by Wemby’s emotional maturity after crushing home losses: “Wemby at the end of those games is still cheering and applauding… the way an old coach would do with a bunch of 8-year-olds.” (38:38)
• The group questions whether this level of grace and leadership is common for 22-year-olds on such a stage.
• Honey Boo Boo: “I think there's a real maturity level to him for his age. I’m impressed by it… but I also think there's a ferocity that's going to allow him to use the hatred… as more fuel." (40:43)

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10. The Thrill of Silencing an Opposing Crowd

Timestamps: 41:09–42:27

• Dan: “I just don’t think there are many human beings who think that way… There probably are usually athletes or fighters, people who get more joy out of silencing an opposing crowd than making their own crowd cheer.” (41:09)
• Panel debates whether shutting up a hostile crowd is better than being cheered—consensus: it's the ultimate rush for competitors.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dan Le Batard, on instant villain status:
  "We’re already three games in, given the stakes and the circumstances. Most hated athlete at the center of New York ever. He’s already in the conversation." (11:09)
• David Jacoby (clip):
  "I cannot stand this guy. I hate his outfits. I hate his face. His hair. I hate everything about him." (07:55)
• Stephon Marbury (clip):
  "You better put that knife in his neck. All right? That's what it's at." (17:35)
• Dan Le Batard, on Marbury’s rhetoric:
  "One of them being how high Marbury would have to jump to put a knife in the neck of Wembanyama." (18:17)
• Honey Boo Boo, on crowd hatred:
  "They feel like their joy is being stolen by Wemby, you know, with that flagrant foul that wasn’t caught. Wemby is cheating, okay? He’s a wanted man. Dirty player number one. He’s all that stuff." (36:54)
• Dan Le Batard, on Wemby’s leadership:
  "Wemby at the end of those games is still cheering and applauding and doing the rah rah Little League stuff… I don’t think that’s insincere." (38:38)

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Segment Timestamps for Key Topics

• 01:15 — Dan’s evolving approach to sports-watching
• 03:05 — New York’s obsession with Wembanyama’s foul
• 07:29 — David Jacoby’s anti-Wemby rant
• 10:11 — The construction of sports villains in MSG
• 16:18 — Stephon Marbury’s viral "hit" out on Wemby
• 20:05 — Can the Knicks retaliate like the old days?
• 21:25 — Comparison to classic Knicks rivalries and villains
• 24:44 — Serious basketball chat: Knicks’ offensive problems
• 32:09 — Debating MSG’s all-time NBA villains
• 36:25 — Is Knicks fans’ hatred “real”?
• 38:38 — Wemby’s unique mental game as a 22-year-old
• 41:09 — The psychology of silencing an opposing crowd

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Episode Tone and Style

The show keeps a signature blend of slapstick humor, sharp basketball analysis, and cultural commentary. The conversational chaos is punctuated with playful jabs, over-the-top metaphors, and punchy references to NBA history, New York bravado, and the sheer theater of the Finals. The panel is particularly unfiltered in their assessment of fan culture, media hysteria, and what it takes to become an enduring sports villain.

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For Listeners Who Missed It

• This episode is an essential snapshot of how sports legend, villainy, and fandom escalate in real time, especially in the glare of the NBA Finals.
• The show’s cast masterfully bounces between joking about technical foul points, clowning on Stephon Marbury’s tough-guy cosplay, and analyzing what makes Wemby such a compelling—and polarizing—figure so quickly.
• The analysis of modern vs. old-school NBA, Knicks psychology, and what it takes to embrace the hate makes for must-listen content for any basketball fan seeking insight beneath the headlines.

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Transcript

[Dan Le Batard]

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[Greg Cody]

The Cambria Hotel's got it all. A rooftop bar.

[Guest or Advertiser Voice]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Bring a date, your squad or even your mom.

Book [e-mail]

[Zaslow Lebatard]

this is what everyone's talking about.

[Music or Song Interlude]

Everything's on the table.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

This is what champions come to take. This is what everyone came to see.

[Dan Le Batard]

And the slam. No do overs.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

No second chances.

[Dan Le Batard]

No more Mr. Nice Guy.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

This is winner take all.

[Dan Le Batard]

The NBA Finals continue on ABC and

[Zaslow Lebatard]

the ESPN app

[Guest or Advertiser Voice]

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[Dan Le Batard]

This is the Dan Levator show with the Stugats podcast. Something interesting has happened to the way that I watch sports over the last 40 years, where I go from being most interested in sociology of sports and the stories of and how it is that people become excellent and become champions.

[Greg Cody]

You ever just want to watch a

[Dan Le Batard]

game Now I'm just watching the minutia of the game in a way now that makes for me the more interesting drill down on everything happening in this series is not will Wemby be a villain, et cetera, et cetera. The most boring, interesting drill down for me is holy shit, Brunson's dribbling a lot. I think the spurs want him to play that way. I think the spurs don't want him allowing a bunch of three point shooters to all of a sudden allow the Knicks to get to 140 points, which they can do very quickly if Brunson is playing differently than he's playing in this series. Greg Cody is allergic to new information. I want to give you this stat and ask you if you care. Kirk Goldsberry says that Jalen Brunson has dribbled 1590 times across three games. Do you care about that stat? Yes or no?

[Honey Boo Boo]

To a degree. I mean, I can't say yes or no. I would care more if I found out what's the significance of that? What are they doing defensively?

[Dan Le Batard]

I'm about to tell you what the significance is though, because the next Closest is Castle with 813 dribbles. And I'm telling you that while the Knicks are ahead in the series, they're playing the way the spurs would prefer that they play. And I would say that's dangerous. But I'm assuming that most of the conversation today is just going to be about. Wemby is hated, Wemby's a villain, New York hates Wemb.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

Entire conversation coming out of New York Knicks fans and nick Media were 48 hours gone from game three. Enough with the Fagan foul. That was not called on Wembanyama.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Right?

[Dan Le Batard]

It's the only thing there's an L missing there.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

Don't worry about that. Everybody understood exactly what I said. You're wasting everybody's time and your own breath. Flagrant foul. All right, Everybody understood what I was getting at there.

[Dan Le Batard]

Tough one I didn't even make. I didn't even mean to make fun of you. It's just that everyone noticed. Everyone stopped with your point. You were in the middle. In the middle of your good point.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

And no one missed the point.

[Dan Le Batard]

You. But you missed the L. You swallowed the L. The L got swallowed like that kid by that whale earlier during.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

No one was confused. And now instead of me making a great point about the flagrant foul and the Nick fan and the Nick media, all we're talking about is a letter

[Honey Boo Boo]

L. Yeah, I. I missed that. I'd like to hear it again. I think it'd be valuable to. To hear that misspeak again.

[Music or Song Interlude]

What a day. It's all coming up roses. I'm a shooting saw leaping through the Like a tiger defying the laws of gravity I'm a racing car passing by like Lady Godivo.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Sorry, I got lost in my own head there for a second.

[Music or Song Interlude]

I'm gonna go, go, go. There's no stopping.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Hey, that's what I'm talking about.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

Who knew the New York fan and media were so soft?

[Jeremy Sohan]

They're pathetic.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

All they care about is this Wembanyama flagrant foul. And the reason. Okay, so, Dan. The reason they care about it so much is Wembanyama already at. If you get four flagrant foul points, you're suspended in the playoffs. He already has two. So if he got another flagrant foul here. Now we're at three, all right? Because remember, he picked up flagrant two, that's two points. You understand? I don't need to do the math for you. If he gets another flagrant foul here, that's three points. He's one away from being suspended. Are you telling Me, like the Knicks fan wants to win finals games by Wembanyama getting suspended. That's really how you want it? Yeah, they do.

[Jeremy Sohan]

Because they're losers.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

That is, like, so soft.

[Jeremy Sohan]

Their team might win, but I have never seen a fan base full of bigger losers than the Knicks fan base that is running around with a 21 lead and a home game tonight.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

When a home scared win a home

[Jeremy Sohan]

game, they're scared up to one. I thought your team was invincible. I thought your team was great. I thought Jalen Brunson was the best player in the world. How about believe in your team? It's a really pathetic showing from them.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

I'm telling you, that crowd is going to be super jacked up tonight. But. But the energy is going to be them trying to mask how nervous they are. That's good. If we get to the fourth quarter, spurs are ahead. That's a tight crowd tonight. You'll see.

[Music or Song Interlude]

Was that our phone?

[Dan Le Batard]

That was Greg Cody's phone.

[Greg Cody]

It dinged.

[Honey Boo Boo]

It was. No. No, it wasn't. It can't be. My phone is turned off.

[Music or Song Interlude]

Yeah, it's off. Yeah, look at that. It's been off.

[Dan Le Batard]

Was it a computer?

[Honey Boo Boo]

My computer. Silent. I heard a ding.

[Dan Le Batard]

I did, too. I heard a ding, too.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Check yourself, guys. I mean, come on.

[Dan Le Batard]

Was it you?

[Zaslow Lebatard]

My phone's always silent. I never have a ringer on.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Okay? I've been falsely accused.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, we're gonna get to the bottom of this. It's one of our phones. Maybe it's mine. I didn't think it was mine.

[Music or Song Interlude]

Oh, no.

[Dan Le Batard]

But let me. There's something happening here. Not to get stuck in the mud on this, but you should text.

[Greg Cody]

Nobody touch your devices. Say, wait.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Holding it up.

[Greg Cody]

So hands off. I'm gonna text each and every single one of you.

[Dan Le Batard]

Okay, Here we go. This is dramatic. This is scary, and this is dramatic.

[Greg Cody]

I think someone did something. All right, someone send the text.

[Dan Le Batard]

I'm scared. I'm scared. It might be.

[Advertiser Voice]

All right, let's lay out.

[Dan Le Batard]

Here comes the text.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

All right, I texted Dan.

[Advertiser Voice]

There was no noise there.

[Greg Cody]

All right, you're clear for now. I'm gonna go to the replay machine. Gonna consult VAR to see if someone touched their device.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, no, I didn't touch. Are you accusing me of cheating? I did not touch anything.

[Greg Cody]

I'm accusing someone in that room of cheating.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Lebba cheat.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

How do we know it wasn't someone in the shipping container?

[Dan Le Batard]

No, because it was a sound that we heard in here.

What?

[Zaslow Lebatard]

Am I okay?

[Greg Cody]

You okay? You almost had a slur Failure.

[Jeremy Sohan]

Foul.

[Greg Cody]

Careful. I don't even want to replay that. Not this much.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

I'm not proud of that boy.

[Honey Boo Boo]

That'll come back to haunt you. Whoa.

[Dan Le Batard]

I am terrified of the Phra.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Go on.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, that's all I've got.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Okay.

[Music or Song Interlude]

That's my gimmick.

[Dan Le Batard]

I never want to say it. So David Jacoby is going after Wemby in harsher terms. And I don't know how long players are allowed to be beloved, but David Jacoby, who worked for the ringer, had this to say.

Look, I think he's emotionally. Can't control himself, honestly. And I really, I really. I started drumming up a dislike for him, like, this summer, and now it's just at a million, like, I cannot stand this guy. I hate his outfits. I hate his face. Wow.

His hair.

I hate everything about him. I just think he does such a try hard curated. When he goes to the park and he's drawing in the park with his friend, he's like sketching a bush with, like, a graphite pencil. I just can't stand it. And, like. And the idea that Mike Brown won't be like, hey, Huck, Porty, go in for 30 seconds and get kicked out of the game because he just basically mushed, push, punched, whatever, our best player. And then Castle comes and like, oh, well, it's a flagrant or a foul. It is the exact same thing that Carter Bryant did to Shay. And then we have the Victor Wembanyama whispering in Biyombo and Plumley's ears as they go in. Like, I just am really, really. I respect him as a basketball player and I respect the work ethic. I'm not saying he's a bad basketball player. I'm just. You can't disagree with him when I say I can't stand Victor Wendman.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

I'm glad he gave the distinction between him not saying he's a bad basketball player, because that would make sense.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Yeah. Just a terrible basketball player.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah. Well, but you guys, you guys are being flippant about this. But when I think of everything we've been talking about over the last six weeks of New York Knicks basketball, which is a fan base that is loud and proud without reason for three decades, has been laughed at by America. You remember, you know, Pablo, he'll steal your cookies. You know, Julius Randall, bully, like, the loudest, most obnoxious, worst New York you've ever heard, is feeling the best feeling. It's felt about its most important thing in 25 or 30 years. The emotions of that will make It. So you're not gonna be reasonable. And you will get to hate on Wembanyama because he pushed your best guy down to the ground. Your beloved guy pushed him to the ground. And I believe that you can assemble an argument for this combination of feelings and ingredients that are near Wembanyama in New York that three games in, we're already at most hated person in the history of the city in sports not named Reggie Miller.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

Yeah, I don't. I really don't have a problem with it because I feel like I've been pretty consistent about this kind of stuff. I liked watching the NBA back when if you got a little guy who's messing around with the big guy, the big guy pushes you off him like your little nat. Like. Like you don't. Brunson has no reason to be mixing it up with the 7 foot 5 guy. And the 7 foot 5 guy let him know about it.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Yeah, well, when you watch the replay on that, it could have been a little bit of a flop by Brunson as well. I don't think it was an entirely.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't know what you guys are doing here. Okay. It's a flop instead of a little bit one. He's just thrown a little bit of

[Honey Boo Boo]

a flop, in my opinion.

[Dan Le Batard]

But maybe.

[Honey Boo Boo]

But I want to say this. The New York tabloids, the Post and the Daily News have a rich, consistent history of this. Of saying. Of villainizing an opponent as an excuse after their home.

[Dan Le Batard]

Greg, there was no flop in that. I can't believe that Yours, Greg.

[Music or Song Interlude]

Flop.

[Dan Le Batard]

Greg, let's keep playing that. Just put it in the corner and keep playing that. That is. You cannot say, Greg Cody, that this is a flop. He pushed him by the back of his head, forehead first to the floor. Like, that's not. It was absolutely aggressive. Do you guys disagree with my assessment though, that we're already three games in given the stakes and the circumstances. Most hated athlete at the center of New York ever. He's already in the conversation just because of the storylines that are meeting. Yes, the storylines that are meeting. I don't know what you guys think are like, you guys made a big deal. We made a big deal out of Trae Young. That was in the second round. That's him going into the garden and like bowing. That's him playing villain role. This is the biggest star in the league and he doesn't do villain. He hasn't gotten any villain. His. He's getting the biggest hate he's ever gotten right now.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

He doesn't seem bothered by it, though. Like, okay, he doesn't do villain. But he was asked about it the other day, and he said, I don't think I am as hated as Trae Young. Like, he. He is not bothered by any of this stuff. And I think we're going to see that tonight because they're going to be nasty to him this evening in the arena, and I don't think he's going to be bothered.

[Honey Boo Boo]

But Wemby doesn't mind a little bit of a villain. He had it with that high elbow. Right.

[Dan Le Batard]

So it was actually a low elbow for him.

[Honey Boo Boo]

You're right. It would have been a high elbow

[Zaslow Lebatard]

for anybody everybody else is high for.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Right. It was a low elbow. But, you know, he doesn't mind that. It's good for the NBA. Look, they reviewed the foul. They didn't think it was a flagrant. I'm fine with that. When you review that foul and you don't call it a flagrant, it means they, like me, see a little bit of a flop.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, that's not what it means. It means Wemby's a star and they would never do anything to.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Brunson is not a star.

[Music or Song Interlude]

I'll tell you. Flop. Dave. Hi.

[Jeremy Sohan]

So my style sort of changes depending on what time of year it is. Once we get to the summer here in South Florida, it's unbearably hot. I really. I call it oppressively hot, which means I'm constantly sweating. And it changes how I get dressed because you got about 12 seconds before you start regretting your outfit choices. So lately I've really been trying to keep it a little more simple, light, breathable, comfortable, but still looking put together, because that's what I care about. And that's why I keep going back to Quint's. Their European linen shirts and pants are perfect for the summer, and they start at just 34 bucks. Their tees are soft, they're easy to wear. They've got lightweight cotton sweaters for the random nights where the AC is sort of freezing everywhere you go. And everything at Quint's is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. I picked up one of their European linen shirts in a sky blue color. I've actually even worn it on the show, and it's become one of those shirts that I keep reaching for without even thinking about it. So you should elevate your summer wardrobe and go to quince.com dan for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada, too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com dan for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com dan Summer always hits different once

[Greg Cody]

the big game starts stacking up. Now you've got finals games on every other night, baseball's rolling all week, racing on the weekends, and suddenly everybody's looking for an excuse to get together. The other night, a buddy texted me, we've got the game on, come through. I figured I'd stop by for maybe an hour. That was optimistic. Next thing you know, everybody's locked into the game and we're all part of the coaching staff. Somebody's yelling at the reference. Somebody else is suddenly an expert on pitch strategy, and nobody's even pretending they're leaving early anymore. It's one of those nights where you take a sip of Miller Lite, look around and realize, yeah, this is exactly what summer is supposed to be. That's why Miller Lite is always part of these nights for me. It's clean, refreshing, easy to drink when it's hot outside, and perfect for long nights hanging with friends, watching games. An all American summer starts with an all American beer, Miller lite. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Tony, you know that moment at a party or at a tailgate where everything just sort of clicks?

[Honey Boo Boo]

I know it well.

[Jeremy Sohan]

It's usually when I show up, everybody goes crazy.

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, you usually take all the credit for it, but it's because Tony usually walks in with Cuervo.

[Dan Le Batard]

Walking like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Greg Cody]

Cuervo is a thing that turns hanging out into this is the night. It has that effect on people.

[Dan Le Batard]

It does.

[Greg Cody]

You usually take the credit for it, but again, it's the Cuervo effect. It's like that moment in a big game where everyone in the crowd just starts standing up, hooting and hollering.

[Dan Le Batard]

Keep it Cuervo.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Keep it cuervo, baby.

[Dan Le Batard]

Don LeBatard, he, for some reason, would do a Gary Stevens impersonation of the offensive coordinator of the Miami Dolphins in the University of Miami.

[Music or Song Interlude]

Go ahead.

[Dan Le Batard]

Do you want to do that for the people? You're Gary Stevens impersonation. You want to give people some of that? 30 years in the making, Stu.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Who needs me? Oh, that.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

My whole Life.

[Honey Boo Boo]

You're going to go to Buffalo and win with Bernie Pomele. Who needs big.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

This is the D Levatar show with the Stu Cats. You see Stephon Marbury put a hit out on Wembanyama for tonight.

[Dan Le Batard]

These things are escalating. What is the. Do we have this video? Let's look at the video of Marbury. Guys, we're three games in on this, and they're riding in the street and Marbury is putting hit out.

[Greg Cody]

Let me give you all some food for thought, okay? I'll tell you something about Wemby. Wemby is an international player, okay? They play dirty overseas. Just so you know, we're not used to playing dirty in America. The way how just now through Jalen Brunson. Now, if I'm watching film and I see Wemby throw somebody on my team, if he throws somebody like that the next game, I'm gonna pop him in his. I'm gonna pop him in his rib cage so hard with my elbow that he's gonna fall and drop to the ground and he's gonna wish he never put his hands on me. Okay? So next game, I guarantee you after y film what he did to Jalen Brunson, you better know that whoever. Who, whenever he get on a basketball court, you better make sure you put. You better put. You better put that knife in his neck. All right? That's what it's at. That's where it's at. You see what he did when he came in? He said he was gonna come in. He was gonna win game, too. He did exactly what he was supposed to do. All right? So make sure y' all take note. And next game, you make sure you bring that same energy, all right?

Ridiculous teeth.

[Music or Song Interlude]

Yeah.

[Greg Cody]

It's just insane.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

The tattoo must have hurt, right?

[Greg Cody]

Yeah. I mean, it looks like Matt Dillon and something about Mary.

[Advertiser Voice]

He's got that nice Uber, though, with the curtains covering the window.

[Greg Cody]

He looks like the mask.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

I think Marbury's gonna run on the court tonight and do it himself.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Yeah, he will. Knife in the neck seems a little extreme.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, let's. A little extreme. Yes, it is amusing on a couple of different fronts. One of them being how high Marbury would have to jump to put a knife in the neck of Wembanyama. And the other thing is the general absurdity of Marbury wasn't that team's tough guy. And when I say that team, any team he's been on, including the ones in China that they built statues. He's never been the Tough guy. It's weird to hear these old Knicks. I imagine this is how the old hurricane sound when they talk about swagger and nonsense. Whatever New York thinks it was at basketball 30 years ago. ZAZ that's sitting courtside everywhere except for Oakley, where they're surrounded by a bunch of old dudes who want. Want to get back to Larry Johnson basketball, John Starks basketball. Like when we're talking about Knicks basketball. Okay. I saw this happen here with Kevin o' Connor where he got a bunch of people in Miami mad because he's saying that Giannis wouldn't want to come to Miami because it's not a historic franchise. The Knicks are historic franchise. The Celtics are a historic franchise, but the Miami Heat are not a historic franchise. The only history that the Knicks have in this lifetime over I'm looking at about four generations, three generations, like after the 70s is we play tough guy basketball. We're the team that's tougher than everybody. Pat Riley finds people if they help opponents up on the court. You don't know if Larry Johnson and Alonzo mourning a fight so much that Jeff Van Gundy is going to be hanging from somebody's calf. Anthony Mason is going to scare you. Charles Oakley is going to scare you. They've got. They're bad men. They fancy themselves as super physical and rugged and from another time. They're dinosaurs in some way. That's not how the Knicks play basketball. And here's Stephon Marbury, who's not the toughest of them, saying, hey, you've got to retaliate for that. And not in today's NBA.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

You better not in the Finals. You can't do it in the Finals.

[Honey Boo Boo]

You just can't send out a bench guy. Yeah.

[Jeremy Sohan]

Like Jordan Clarkson. He's expendable. Right? Like it'll feel real because it's. He'll play some minutes here and there. Or even Alvarado. Right. Alvarado got more play last time. Let him go in there.

[Dan Le Batard]

Alvarado can't be the goon. Don't do that to our people.

[Jeremy Sohan]

Thank you at least for saying we

[Dan Le Batard]

have very few in the NBA. You can't send out Alvarado as a goon. We got enough trouble in this country.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

Didn't he square up against. Was it Thomas Bryant with the Heat? Didn't he square up against Thomas Bryant?

[Jeremy Sohan]

I'll find out. Jose Alvarado.

[Dan Le Batard]

Who is their tough guy? Like you. Who do you want tough guy from on the Knicks? Are we really doing this? Mitchell Robinson, but with a broken hand.

[Advertiser Voice]

We're responding to Mowbray.

[Dan Le Batard]

I know, but what's Marbury doing? That's irresponsible, and we were irresponsible for airing it.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

Probably go with Tyler Kulak.

[Jeremy Sohan]

It's a good one.

[Dan Le Batard]

Tell me the last time you guys think that somebody was walking into the storyline in New York that had this kind of stakes on it as the enemy. Because when you do the narrative building that this sport is built on, and you do face the league stuff, and I want the league taken From Steph and LeBron, the way you do it is in Madison Square Garden during the finals. There's no finer way to do it than to be the villain. Go in there and win the game at the end, and it's silent there.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

How mad are those people gonna be? Spent all that money and they don't

[Dan Le Batard]

win a home game?

[Honey Boo Boo]

Crazy.

[Greg Cody]

The last time we saw something like this was Halliburton, and previous to that, Trey Young. And those two guys in particular relished it. I'm not sure Wemby is like that.

[Dan Le Batard]

Reggie Miller is eternal and more highly regarded than he would otherwise be because he did it with stakes smaller than these in that building.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

Yeah, like he. He could. He's not there yet. Depending on what happens tonight, he could catapult ahead of all of those guys.

[Dan Le Batard]

And the best stuff in sports and this sport, where LeBron goes from famous to infamous to famous, is keep building the currency of power because you're not popular. And it's applause all the time. You have up and down, up and down, up and down. You have some controversies. You have stuff that doesn't stain your name too much, but stuff on the court. Elbows. How much does Wemby want it? People talking for days about how much he cares because he's willing to throw Brunson to the ground. This story's not yet halfway over, potentially, and already it's at escalated with the Flames to just about the highest place. It's like. It's where you want the heat on these things.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Yeah. And the Contrast is optimum. 7 foot 4 against 6 foot 1. I mean, that alone, the physical contrast alone magnifies this whole thing, which is

[Zaslow Lebatard]

great to be good.

[Jeremy Sohan]

I found the guy, Jeremy Sohan. He wins a ring no matter what.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

He doesn't win a ring no matter what he does.

[Jeremy Sohan]

He wins a ring no matter what. So if he goes in and he gets into a little fight, it doesn't make a difference.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

He could be defending a ring no matter what. You know, when you win a ring, when Your team wins a championship. He doesn't play for the spurs one more time.

[Dan Le Batard]

Because I do want to keep putting this in front of you simply because

[Jeremy Sohan]

I like the Jose Alvarado can fight Dan look. He punched Mark Williams right in the face. That feels like the guy. It feels like the guy.

[Dan Le Batard]

Don't do this. You can't. You think it's a good idea in New York today with everything happening in the world to send a brown guy out to create violence in the movie?

[Jeremy Sohan]

Who's Victor Wembanyama? He's a foreigner.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, French France. The French are not a threat. They never have been.

[Music or Song Interlude]

Do you remember the 21st night of September?

[Jeremy Sohan]

A leftist foreigner.

[Dan Le Batard]

I'm going to put these numbers Bailey

[Honey Boo Boo]

and the Greg Cody show podcast guest

[Greg Cody]

Maurice White was the singer and I saw the lead.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Really?

[Greg Cody]

Yeah.

[Dan Le Batard]

That was his voice in the song.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Do you remember? I think it was Philip Bailey. With due respect.

[Greg Cody]

Watch the documentary.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Let's look it up.

[Music or Song Interlude]

The 21st.

[Dan Le Batard]

Greg, when you say let's look it up, do you always mean someone else?

[Honey Boo Boo]

Yeah.

[Dan Le Batard]

Because your phone is there and my

[Honey Boo Boo]

phone is turned off. That's why it didn't buzz like yours a few minutes ago. You've never owned up to that lever. Dodge mine.

[Dan Le Batard]

I'm not guilty. You guys need to get to the bottom of who. Who had that ding around here? Because I think it might be Zaslow Lebadon.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

I haven't had my ringer on in years.

[Dan Le Batard]

It might be Greg Cody's computer, I fear. I think.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Come look at the volume on my computer.

[Jeremy Sohan]

They're both right. Maurice White and Philip Bailey are listed as lead and background vocals.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't think that's worth celebrating. I really don't.

[Honey Boo Boo]

I'm celebrating. Rory and I are locked in arms.

[Music or Song Interlude]

I've been celebrating for a good 24 hours. What I want you might be hard to handle.

[Honey Boo Boo]

H and O, baby.

[Dan Le Batard]

Zaslow, I'm going to try and do 45 seconds of serious basketball analysis with just you without some interruptions here. Just going drilling down on this. Are you ready?

[Honey Boo Boo]

Yep.

[Dan Le Batard]

Brunson is shooting 50% at the rim. That is obviously not good. He's shooting 21% mid range. That's obviously not good. The team. He's shooting 31% from three, which is six percentage points below his averages this season. And 31%, if you were to do it for a career, would be among the war worst three point shooters there have ever been. Okay. During the Knicks winning streak, it was all ball movement. It's offense running through cat now. It's low assists and Brunson dribbling. And here's the quote from Mike Brown. We were about as stagnant as I've seen us all year. We just wanted to stand and watch one guy dribble a ton. We literally just stood and watched. There was no movement. You do what? With all of that information, I think

[Zaslow Lebatard]

back to the Western Conference finals and realize how good Shea go to Alexander.

[Greg Cody]

So this is what it's like when the Heat make a finals for our audience.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

I mean, like Shay Yodis. Alexander wasn't at his best last round, and he was still much better than what Jalen Brunson is doing against this spurs defense. I feel like Shake Yodis is really

[Dan Le Batard]

good, but your takeaway as far as what the next four games are going to look like when I keep telling you The Knicks are up 2:1, but we know them to be the lesser team during the regular season. We know them to have a star player who's not as good as the other star player. We know that history shows the little guy doesn't win. What do you make of the fact that they're getting the Knicks to play exactly the basketball that the spurs wish for them to play with? The idea that over seven games will grind that down because they'll never get one of their 1:30 or 1:40 games that they were winning the whole second half of the season with?

[Zaslow Lebatard]

I think there's a better win tonight because there's a huge difference going back to San Antonio for Game five tied at two when it's San Antonio who won the previous two games going into Game five. Like, again, I've been wrong about everything that series, but I feel like going into tonight, San Antonio's got to be so confident. I really do.

[Dan Le Batard]

But you have to run it through Cat, do you not?

[Jeremy Sohan]

Like that's the adjustment? It has to be. It has to be the adjustment of letting Cat facilitate that offense. Getting bodies moving. That's what Mike Brown was talking about. When Jalen Brunson's just dribbling and everybody's standing around and you've got Cat standing in the corner, it allows Wemby to impact, pack things in the paint in a different way and you become a stagnant offense. So when you run it through Cat and you can at least drag Wembanyama out there to challenge, that's when you see things go well. He needs to have a big game and Brunson does need to be efficient. This is a huge game for him individually, efficiency wise.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

He had his Best game. Game three, right.

[Jeremy Sohan]

He needs to capitalize on it.

[Music or Song Interlude]

Wait a minute. Fill my cup. Put some liquor in it. Take a sip, sign a check. Julio, get the stretch. Ride to Harlem, Hollywood, Jackson, Mississippi. If we show up, we gonna show up smoother than a French girl. Skip it. I'm too hot. Call the police and the fireman. I'm too hot. Come on, everybody. Come on. You know the words. Make a dragon war to retirement. Girls, hit your hallelu. Girls, hit Hallelujah. Just up there. Give it to y'.

[Dan Le Batard]

All.

[Music or Song Interlude]

The last.

[Greg Cody]

Oh, no.

[Dan Le Batard]

Hello, listeners.

[Jeremy Sohan]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Don LeBatard, Greg Cody of the Miami Herald. He's actively playing defense against my ability do this show because.

[Greg Cody]

What are you laughing at?

[Dan Le Batard]

You're.

[Greg Cody]

You're just laughing at.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Honey Boo Boo is embroiled in controversy. It's funny to me. Sorry.

[Greg Cody]

St.

[Dan Le Batard]

He couldn't stop laughing. Just looking at the picture of Honey Boo Boo.

[Greg Cody]

That doesn't sound healthy.

[Dan Le Batard]

It ain't his laughter fantastic. We can't make him laugh like that. It's how he's going to die right here. Just laughing and coughing.

[Honey Boo Boo]

I want to die like that.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

This is the D Ler show. With his two guards.

[Dan Le Batard]

Greg Cody just whimpered around his inner monologue through coughs, giggles, laughter and a little bit of tears in his eyes. What is happening? Which I imagine first time viewers of this show are also thinking about. Zaz, what are you pointing to on the. On the screen here?

[Zaslow Lebatard]

Okay. I especially love first take on ESPN on Wednesdays because Christopher Mad Dog Russo, the greatest of all time is on Wednesdays. What a top five show. And love. What a top five. He just put together villains in Madison Square Garden history coming in at numbers four and five all time. Tim Hardaway and PJ Brown. That is incredible. I mean the PJ Brown did. Didn't even happen at msg. It happened at Miami Arena. PJ was suspended for the next game. That was in msg, which you know, the Heat won. Lonzo Morning. Three pointer. Jeremy, you don't even know what I'm talking about. You weren't even born. But Tim Hardaway, number four. PJ Brown, number five. What a. What a great job that is by Dog there.

[Dan Le Batard]

I wouldn't put anybody above Reggie Miller. I didn't feel like Michael Jordan.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

Michael Jordan above.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah. But I didn't think that Michael Jordan was more of a villain. He wasn't hated. And he took more important things from

[Zaslow Lebatard]

the Knicks double nickel.

[Dan Le Batard]

But he was respect. He beat the respect out of them. Like it wasn't. When we're talking about whatever sports hatred is, do you guys, do you guys think about what it is, the energy of tonight, what wembanyama is walking into? Do any of you consider like wherever it is the bravery of athletes are always risking embarrass. They're in front of everybody competing.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Yeah. I think envy is the first building block of hatred, you know, And I think that's why Michael Jordan was number one on that list. And I think that's why Wemby is number one right now in Knicks fans hatred is because they envy him. They wish they had him.

[Dan Le Batard]

But Reggie Miller did stuff to instigate. Michael Jordan was just great. That's not the same thing. It isn't like Wemby's not just being great in this series, important or famous. He's also doing things that are physical. Because this is going to escalate on wherever it is people compete physically.

[Greg Cody]

Bad list from doggy.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

It's like Trae Young not being on it.

[Greg Cody]

They never said bleep PJ Brown. They still chant bleep Trey Young.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

I'm shocked by PJ Brown being on the list. I like it.

[Greg Cody]

During this Hawks Knicks series, they were still chanting bleep Dre Young.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

I would have expected Alonzo Mourning ahead of PJ Brown.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, but when you say PJ Brow, though, just. Look, I don't think it's going to escalate to this, but we already did see video outside of Madison Square Garden that felt kind of rioty. Okay. PJ Brown comes from another time when all of these dudes were fist fighting on the court in a way we haven't seen in a really long time. Like just fist fighting on the court, throwing a player into the stands. PJ Brown absolutely went into Madison Square Garden. He did the same thing. Thing PJ Brown doing that to Charlie Ward is lesser players doing what Wembanyama and Brunson just did. You know, you're. You're changing sort of the. The value and the currency, allowing for how much less physical the game is now. But that's the equivalent of what just happened, seeing Brunson pushed down the face to the court like a child. Their beloved player feels the Same way as 611 PJ Brown throwing little Heisman Trophy winner Charlie Ward, tough and gritty into the crowd.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

All right. Charlie Ward deserves. Deserved it. All right? He was trying to take out PJ's knees on the free throw line, and that's why PJ threw him into the crowd. Deservedly so. But I guess I'm drawing the distinction that it happened at Miami arena and PJ was suspended for the rest of the series. So they didn't even get to like, boo him that year at Madison Square Garden. But nonetheless, I respect it. I like it that he's there. I just would have figured Alonzo Morning would have been ahead of P.J. brown because he played in that next game and he hit the huge three pointer and then he told the Madison Square Garden crowd to go F themselves.

[Dan Le Batard]

He Also fought Larry Johnson in the garden, right?

[Zaslow Lebatard]

That's true. Yep.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Yep. Plus, he had a leading scowl by Zo.

[Dan Le Batard]

You guys understand the difference in what it is that I'm talking about, though, between yesterday's NBA and today's NBA and where the flames on all of this can actually climb to when you've got in the emotion of however loud New Yorkers feel bubbling up is a bile that is not going to be contained to just sports hatred. Bill Simmons makes the distinction between sports hatred and real hatred. Where's this? Because we're at game three.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

Oh, I think it's real because Wembanyama is going to be the one if it happens to take away the. The happy that they felt was so close that most of them have never experienced in their life. So whether it's sports or whatever else is happening in our life, if there is a person that is taking away our happiness that we've never felt before, that's real hate.

[Honey Boo Boo]

I don't disagree, particularly because they feel like their joy is being stolen by Wemby, you know, with that flagrant foul that wasn't caught. Wemby is cheating, okay? He's a wanted man. Dirty player number one. He's all that stuff. And. And so I think the hatred's real right now, you know, and. And it starts with. With the fandom and. And they're assaulting spurs fans and ripping spurs jerseys off.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

It's very real.

[Honey Boo Boo]

What are we doing?

[Zaslow Lebatard]

It's very real.

[Music or Song Interlude]

I'm a cowboy on a steel horse I ride I want it dead or alive Lifestyle long.

[Dan Le Batard]

When you think zaslo of being 22

[Music or Song Interlude]

years old, you heard it, pal.

[Dan Le Batard]

When we dissect all of this stuff in sports and forget that these are humans, not superhumans, even though some of them are built like superhumans, what Wemby is walking into this evening, how do you imagine that feels?

[Zaslow Lebatard]

He loves it. I think he's different. I think everything we hear from him, he's different from most of these NBA players. And by the way, it is kind of weird where if you're not a Knicks fan and you hate him to feel that way, because I feel like he's the kind of player that you would really respect and want to get behind because of the way that he treats the game. I don't think this bothers him all at. I really think. I think he's been groomed most of his life to be this guy. I think. I think he loves it. I think we're gonna see it tonight.

[Dan Le Batard]

So when you say Groomed all his life to be something. This is something very small. Okay. I know that Wemby spends a lot of time telling you how much he cares, showing you how much he cares. He has said flatly, this is my entire life. This matters to me as the most important thing. He's so spurs that it is. But the thing I wanted to say to you and ask about how rare it is because it struck me as rare that at the end of the last two games. I'm sorry, the first two games of that series where they are surprised at home and stunned at home. Wemby at the end of those games is still cheering and applauding and doing the rah rah Little League stuff the way that an old coach would do with a bunch of 8 year olds. Keep your heads up, everybody. It's okay. Usually guys are hissing steam in those circus circumstances. And when he gets called to try hard because a lot of his things can feel a little extra syrupy, I don't think that's insincere. I think somehow in that moment he has some sort of perspective about how to lead. That is not how I would be now, nevermind, at 22. Like I would not have the grace, the composure to not just simply be crushed and fall into the depths of my own narcissism. This hurts so much. I feel so bad. I wouldn't know how to lead in that moment. Even now 30, 36 years older than him, I don't understand that level of composure. Do you think it's common? Do you think? But do you think that thing I'm talking about is something. Do you know a lot of other guys that you can name that would suffer a crushing loss and then would just sort of. He's doing it in front of everybody, sort of. So if you want to say he's a try hard or public relations guy or Alex Rodriguez, you can accuse him of that. But I just don't think someone has the focus to be so calculated about marketing that they would suffer that kind of shame. The Little League theory, and then react by, hey, keep your head up, guys, it's going to be okay.

[Honey Boo Boo]

I think there's a real maturity level to him for his age. I'm impressed by it. I think there's a moderation to his personality, but I also think there's a ferocity that's going to allow him to use the hatred he hears and feels in the arena as more fuel. I just think it's going to be a lovely situation for him. Walking into that cauldron tonight, he must

[Dan Le Batard]

be built differently than many of us are. If you guys hear what I'm describing and think of it as a lovely situation. Look, I just don't think there are many human beings who think that way. They probably are usually athletes or fighters, people who get more joy out of silencing an opposing crowd than making their own crowd cheer. But that is a mentality like Chipper Jones had it, Reggie Miller had it. I don't think everybody has that. In fact, if you tell me what would. If I ask you guys, what do you think would feel better to you guys, everyone in this room shutting up a hissing crowd, or just having 20,000 people applaud you and roar for you because you had done something so mighty that they can't help but stand up, yell and cheer? Which do you imagine would feel better?

[Zaslow Lebatard]

I think shutting up the crowd feels better.

[Jeremy Sohan]

It's awesome.

[Honey Boo Boo]

I think that's human nature, is to want to shut up a loud, violent crowd. I do, you know, and I think that. And that's also what we love about sports. I mean, this is an optimum situation tonight for him to come into that enemy arena and be able to, with a wonderful performance, be able to shut up that crowd, silence that crowd, take the crowd out of the game, if that's even possible. I think that's what drives him tonight.

[Greg Cody]

I could watch talked out on it. Just find it boring. I think I'll play basketball instead.

[Jeremy Sohan]

I'm Dennis Rodman over here.

[Zaslow Lebatard]

Mix with Mitchell Rodman Robinson.

[Jeremy Sohan]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that part.

[Greg Cody]

I'll get around to it.

[Jeremy Sohan]

1B's the opposite of a rod, right?

[Greg Cody]

Catch up on some Jeremy Corbell doing some good work.

[Jeremy Sohan]

Oh, I thought you meant me. Pitch clock Thursdays.

[Dan Le Batard]

Mike, you should not react to this show talking about basketball the way our listeners who are not Miami Heat fans, have reacted to the last 20 years of this show.

[Greg Cody]

Sorry, Dan. It's just been a time long. You know, the greatest sporting event in the world starts tomorrow, and I feel like maybe we can touch on it. You know, I appreciated the Denny Hamlin ISO play before, but it's just, you know, it's all the time. Though the hockey series is great, too. There's a lot going on in sports, and I'm familiar. But if the Flames climb any higher, I'm gonna walk out because we've been going to that device way too long. Often I think the Flames cannot climb any higher.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's only game three. Of course they can.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Must win tonight.

[Dan Le Batard]

For who?

[Honey Boo Boo]

For both teams.

[Advertiser Voice]

I'm telling you, it feels like it for both.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Winner takes all. I'm. I'm trying to tell you. I. I invented that take. Winner takes all. You know, Whalefall was a novel wins the series. What's that?

[Greg Cody]

Whalefall was a novel.

[Music or Song Interlude]

What? What?

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, they wrote it. It was a book first.

[Honey Boo Boo]

Wow. Who wrote it?

[Greg Cody]

So I thought he was gonna save his kid, and that'd be something to tatt it up. Josh Brolin. Like, trying to slay Moby Dick. But no, apparently. This is a spoiler, but it's a key plot point in the book. The dad died, Brolin's dead. The kid goes into the water to retrieve the body, and then he gets swallowed by the whale.