Draft Night in Pittsburgh: Ty Simpson's Triumph & Rivalries That Died

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz — Football America Special

Episode Title: Draft Night in Pittsburgh: Ty Simpson's Triumph & Rivalries That Died
Date: April 24, 2026
Location: Remote from the Elser Hotel, Downtown Miami
Hosts/Contributors: Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, Dave (main host for this segment), Gino Fuentes, Mike Fuentes, Ethan

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Episode Overview

This episode blends in-depth recaps from the 2026 NFL Draft in Pittsburgh, sharp fan and analyst reactions (with a special spotlight on Miami and Pittsburgh), and a lively, wide-ranging discussion on sports rivalries—classic, new, dead, and evolving. Following the draft, the crew pivots into a passionate, sometimes nostalgic debate about what fuels great sports rivalries, which ones matter now, and the shocking TV moments that stick with us just like the most intense athletic showdowns.

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Key Discussion Points

1. 2026 NFL Draft in Pittsburgh: Vibes, Debates, and Surprises

[00:00 – 14:13]

• Draft Atmosphere in Pittsburgh

  • Dave narrates the electric city vibes: “the most consequential football town of them all,” with “exceptional" draft day excitement and “as far as the eye could see” waves of black and gold, “all the different jerseys, all the different generations.”
  • Quote: “It was a glorious day, weather wise and spiritually too.” — Dave [02:24]

• Steelers Draft Reactions

  • Local disappointment: fans expected the Steelers to grab a top wide receiver, especially Makai Lemon, but the Eagles snuck in first.
  • Disbelief over Pittsburgh’s failure to truly address the quarterback need, leading to unease among fans about decisions “riding on what we have known to be true of the Pittsburgh Steelers...living off of that [legacy].” [05:00-06:45]
  • Speculation on caught-off-guard front office: “some really specious decisions here. It seems like they got caught with their pants down.” — Dave [05:40]

• Miami Dolphins Draft Decisions

  • Controversy over not picking Miami’s own Reuben Bane, which would have been easy PR and fan-appeasement for a team “intentionally kind of tanking the season.” [07:42-12:02]
  • Instead, they chose Kaden Proctor, widely considered a “project.”
  • Gino: “That whole thing about picking the best available player, that’s not what they did. Caleb Downs was staring them in the face.” [09:28]
  • Mike: “When the highlight package...they play on ESPN after you get drafted as an offensive lineman, his trick plays. Probably not the best pick that’s available.” [14:24]

• Draft Fashion & Emotional Moments

  • Carnell Tate’s cropped suit draws praise for draft night style.
  • Jordan Tyson’s emotional reaction: “He had the big ugly cry. And I felt for him. That must—I mean, we'll never feel anything like that. And that was so awesome.” — Dave [07:20]
  • Mike: “Now you’re on national TV, ugly crying and there’s going to be people that hate on that. Not me. I enjoyed it.” [07:33]

• Rams Draft Ty Simpson

  • Rams reached for QB Ty Simpson at 13, making a clear succession plan as Matthew Stafford ages, but possibly could have traded back.
  • Dave: “It’s sort of like the Green Bay Aaron Rodgers ‘why are you drafting my replacement’ situation.” [13:06]
  • Mike: “You’re going to need somebody for Stafford eventually...But you can still move back, like they got him at 13. You can move back two spots.” [15:14]

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2. The State and Evolution of Sports Rivalries

[21:04 – 47:50]

• Listener Prompt

  • Listener RIP Robin2 inspires the crew to debate the best sports rivalries of the last three years, focusing particularly on the T-Wolves vs. Nuggets in the NBA Playoffs.

• Defining Modern Rivalries

  • Mike: “A lot of rivalries have existed that really only existed because teams played each other.” [22:47]
  • Recalls Cavs-Warriors, Lakers-Celtics, Cowboys-Steelers (‘70s), Packers-Niners-Cowboys, Pacers-Knicks, Heat-Knicks.

• Geographic and Cultural Sports Rivalries

  • Miami’s intense rivalry with New York and Boston in both basketball and hockey, rooted as much in regional resentment as team success.
    • Ethan: “There’s a geographic rivalry between Miami and New York where if you live in Miami, you hate all of the New York teams no matter what.” [24:54]

• Emergent West Coast Hockey Rivalries

  • Kings-Ducks, Ducks-Sharks, Lightning-Panthers (as Panthers rise in relevance), Oilers-Stars/Edmonton-Dallas as new playoff rival-fueled enmities.

• College Football Shifts

  • Alabama-Georgia, Alabama-Clemson as recent title-defining matchups.
  • Ethan: “The legacy SEC rivalry...Florida and Alabama. The only team from the East that had beaten Alabama, right, until Georgia beat them.” [29:12]

• Modern NFL Rivalries

  • Chiefs-Bills, expanded to “the whole AFC QB class:” Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Burrow, now even Herbert, Drake May, Bo Nix.
  • Dave: “The AFC…all the best quarterbacks of a certain generation all on one side. So you have this enduring rivalry which is great stuff for football fans.” [32:54]

• International and Non-NFL Rivalries

  • US vs Canada in hockey (“That’s it, right? You know they hate each other.” — Dave [48:26]); also PGA vs LIV in golf.
  • Liverpool v Man City in Premier League; Verstappen-Hamilton in F1.
  • Astros as “everybody's villain”: Yanks, Sox, Dodgers hate them post-2017.

• Dead and Dying Rivalries

  • Colts-Patriots (Peyton vs. Brady era), Steelers-Patriots, Steelers-Ravens.

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3. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Draft Night in the City:
  • “As a native of the place where the draft was going on...the vibes were exceptional all day.” — Dave [02:23]
• On Emotional Athletes:
  • “We shouldn't feel bad for him. We should feel envious...he just became a multi-millionaire.” — Dave, on Jordan Tyson [07:27]
• On Fan Service Draft Picks:
  • “The easiest thing in the world to do is to take the local guy. Everybody loves Reuben Bane. At least now you have something.” — Dave [08:00]
• On the Nature of Rivalries:
  • “You gotta play in the playoffs and you gotta beat each other in the playoffs.” — Ethan [44:15]
• On TV Shocks:
  • “Red Wedding is the most upset...it’s in the top three worst moments of my life.” — Dave [55:11]
  • “You run out of ideas everybody...Call him Paul. No one don’t care. No good name a cool name.” — Dave, on generic TV character names [59:19]

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4. Special Segments & Side Conversations

• Name Game [01:56]
  • Playful struggle to name a great athlete who wore #61; ends up on Curly Culp (NFL) and Rick Nash, Mark Stone (NHL).
• Game of Thrones & TV Jaw-Droppers [53:04 – 61:32]
  • The most jarring TV moments (Red Wedding, Ned Stark, Sopranos finale, Miami Vice).
  • Mike: “That moment in the Red Wedding. Like, I remember being so thrown back, looking at my girlfriend, being like, we gotta watch that shit again.” [57:08]
• Mascot Showdown [52:05]
  • Debate over which national beast would win: eagle vs. bear vs. beaver?
  • “An eagle is tearing a beaver.” — Ethan [52:32]
  • “Ron McGill did tell us an eagle is just a vulture with good PR.” — Mike [52:32]
• Suggestions to Manufacture Rivalries
  • Dave: “With that extra [NFL] game…you should attempt to create as many regional rivalries that don’t exist year to year…call it the Orange Bowl, the Keystone Bowl…” [46:16]
  • Ethan: “Jets-Giants, the Snoopy Bowl.” [47:08]

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Important Timestamps

• [00:00] — Episode start; draft anticipation in Pittsburgh
• [02:24] — On retro jerseys and city vibes during the draft
• [06:46] — Dolphins’ draft and the missed “Reuben Bane for Miami” moment
• [09:28] — Debating positional value in the Dolphins’ pick
• [13:06] — Rams’ Ty Simpson pick analyzed; Stafford succession talk
• [21:04] — Transition to rivalry discussion; prompt from listener
• [24:54] — Cultural/geographic drivers of Miami-New York & Boston rivalries
• [32:54] — Chiefs/Bills/Bengals and the AFC QB arms race
• [48:26] — US vs Canada hockey rivalry
• [53:04] — TV’s most shocking moments, Red Wedding, Sopranos finale
• [59:19] — On naming TV characters and babies

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Conclusion & Episode Feel

This episode is a classic, sprawling Football America chat—insightful for fans of the game (and rivalries), rich with nostalgia, criticism, and humor. It's about both the NFL draft's real (and perceived) drama, and how fandom, geography, and narrative shape why sports matters so much to us—and why some rivalries thrive and others fizzle. If you're passionate about either the Xs and Os or the "soul" of American sports, you’ll find plenty here to argue, agree, and laugh about.

For More:

• Subscribe to the Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
• Engage with the show on YouTube or social media with your takes on favorite rivalries and jarring TV moments

Transcript

[Dave]

Ian Achor, Iheana, Max Ianature. Also Mendoza, Fernando Mendoza. NFL draft coming at you on remote from the site of the NFL Draft 2026 and Football America's most consequential city. Let's start the show. Yes. Hi and hello, my fellow football Americans. Welcome to Football Americ, presented as ever by our pals over at DraftKings. DraftKings, the crown is yours, whether you're in Miami or Los Angeles, New York City or on the banks of the three Rivers. It's the right way to go here. Now, let's talk about the draft, as the viewer can see if you're listening, hope all's well. Wherever you are. If you're looking at me, I apologize for what is looking back at you. I've barely had time, you see, to take a shower. In fact, I haven't even washed myself. I'm in the same clothes I was in on Thursday night that I sit here on Thursday morning in between rounds one and two of the NFL draft. A mixed bag. I feel like in terms of the reaction, the fan base is out there. Generally, there's overflowing optimism. It feels like, I would say maybe two thirds at least, of the NFL fan bases are enthused. I feel like there's a lot of negativity going on right now with some of the reaction site unseen from the student athletes just drafted now into the NFL. First things first, as we say hello to everybody. It is episode 60. And so, as always, it's time to name the greatest number 61 in NFL, nay, sports history. Gino and Mike. Mike and Gino Fuentes. What's the poop, fella? How are you, fellas? How are you?

[Mike Fuentes]

We're all right here.

[Dave]

We're.

[Gino Fuentes]

Well, I'm racking my brain trying to come up with a 61, though. And we got nothing for football, man.

[Mike Fuentes]

We got.

[Gino Fuentes]

That's a buried wasteland of names.

[Mike Fuentes]

We got some.

[Dave]

I wonder if you had Ian Achor, if you. Nobody told you his name was Max, and you're like, who did they draft? Who did the Steelers draft? And you said Ian Achor, where would you think he was from? Like, you think it's like from Wales or something.

[Mike Fuentes]

You think. You think he's Maxwell or Maximilian? Because if it's Maximilian Achor, that's amazing. That's a long one. Yeah, that's pretty cool.

[Dave]

You're right. Yeah.

[Mike Fuentes]

Yeah. So I don't maybe imax, but.

[Dave]

But either way, I do want to hear what you Miami fans are talking about. Great time on the. On the live draft show with Dan LeBatard and the whole crew on Thursday night and shout out to everybody who watched it. A lot of people came up to me as I milled around. It was a. It was great. I know you're going to do 61, but it was great to as, you know, somebody who. I don't know if I've ever mentioned it, but I'm actually from Pittsburgh. I was born and raised here and I like the. I root for the team. I don't know any of that's come up before, but either way, it was great. As a native of the place where the draft was going on, just that that the vibes were exceptional all day. It was a. It was a glorious day, weather wise and spiritually too. Tons and tons, as you would expect of black and gold. Just about as far as the eye could see. All the different jerseys, all the different generations. But that's one of the best things about the draft is all the retro jerseys. You see. There was a Weegee Thompson number 87 Pittsburgh Steelers that I saw. I saw Jamar Chase's LSU jersey. There was Deshaun Watson out and about. It was grand stuff. Anyway, wonderful time milling around and like I say, the most consequential football town of them all. So it was only justice for there finally to be a draft. But anyway, 61. Gino, go ahead. I'm sorry, I'm vamping around here.

[Gino Fuentes]

Like I said, we got nothing NFL wise, but we got. Rick Nash is if you want to go NHL. Mark Stone. We got really nothing NFL wise. If I go back here in some of the names, we got Curly culp from the 1970s.

[Mike Fuentes]

Ah, Curly.

[Dave]

That's a good one. That's not a bad. It's a pretty good one. I know you guys laugh, but that's all right. I think. I think Garrow, Your premier and company vanquished Curly Culp in the longest NFL game of all time in 1971. Christmas Day.

[Mike Fuentes]

Guys, I have bad news.

[Dave]

What?

[Mike Fuentes]

His name is Maxwell, not Maximilian.

[Gino Fuentes]

I lost opportunity.

[Mike Fuentes]

Damn it.

[Dave]

That was the last chance. At least according to everybody in Pittsburgh. I know I'm reacting to what's going on in my immediate vicinity, but, I mean, people are not happy with it. They thought that the Steelers were going to take. I thought that the Steelers were going to take one of three wide receiver options. Lemon was. Apparently they were. Literally. In fact, Mike Fuentes. That was the first I was aware of. That was. You texted me on Thursday night to tell me that the Steelers were literally on the Phone with Makai Lemon when the Eagle swooped in and stole him. Howie Roseman, dirty stuff. Because his old pal who worked with him in the Eagles, nerve center, Andy Wydell before the prodigal son left Philadelphia and returned to the banks of the Three Rivers to build up the line of scrimmage, which he's capably done. Save Broderick Jones three years ago, the left tackle, bad necks, and now they had to replace him. Fine line of scrimmage matters and all of that, clearly, but they still don't have a quarterback at the time of this recording. And this is a team. I don't know how much we're supposed to have faith, and I think a lot of it is riding on what we have known to be true of the Pittsburgh Steelers for the last, you know, three to six decades. And they are living off of that. The terribly capable, ongoing, consistently in the mix, guys who came before them. But some really specious decisions here. It seems like they got caught with their pants down, but that was kind of sort of nothing compared with what Miami fans went with. I don't know if this is the direction we want to go real quick here, fellas, because there are other things to react to. Fernando Mendoza, his whole family. What did you make of the outfits that they all wore? They all put on suits and ball gowns to sit at home and react to what they knew was going to happen, which was Fernando getting taken first overall.

[Mike Fuentes]

Mike, they weren't reacting to him taking first overall. They're. They're reacting to. We're going to be on national tv, so make sure everybody don't be out here. Nobody out here in crocs and PJs. Okay? This is. We're about to be multi, multi, multi millionaires.

[Ethan]

Over.

[Mike Fuentes]

Okay. Yeah, put your. Put your clothes on. You know whose outfit I really liked. And, you know, not a lot of fashion in this group. I understand that, but Carnell Tate, he came out with the cropped suit with the one button. Carnell Tate, man, that guy looked good. I don't know about him going four overall, but he looked good.

[Dave]

I don't know about Jordan Tyson. Literally snot. I don't know how. How you come back from that move.

[Mike Fuentes]

Oh, man.

[Dave]

But he had.

[Mike Fuentes]

He had the big. He had the big ugly cry. And I felt. I felt for him. That must. I mean, we'll never feel anything like that. And that was so awesome.

[Dave]

I know. I. But we shouldn't feel bad for him. We should feel envious of him. Right? I mean, he just became A multi millionaire.

[Mike Fuentes]

I feel happy for him. It's just now you're on national tv, ugly, crying and there's going to be people that hate on that. Not me. I enjoyed it.

[Gino Fuentes]

But people are probably going to end up as a meme.

[Mike Fuentes]

Yeah.

[Gino Fuentes]

Yeah.

[Dave]

Well, I think his new teammates are going to be the ones who are going to take him to task for that reaction. The. Yeah, so the, so the Dolphins fans. I mean, I just don't understand how your first deed if you are starting a whole new era in Miami. Okay, we tried it. We get, we gave it our best shot with McDaniel and Tua. And you know what? We're turning the page and we're moving assets and very few guys that are recognizable are still there now. And here we go. And your first move is to not take Reuben Bane. I mean, for your own sake. If you're the new brain trust. And this goes for any area, any region of football America, if you want to win over the fan base, the easiest thing in the world to do is to take the local guy. Everybody loves Ruben Bane. At least now you have something. Now every Dolphins fan knows that they are intentionally kind of tanking the season. Poor Malik Willis and all of that. Now. Okay, so fine, so you got him an offensive lineman to try to theoretically protect him. But you know that you're trying to lose games. One thing that can bridge the gap into 2027 when you do presumably try to draft the franchise long term franchise quarterback, I guess with Malik Willis sitting there. Or maybe if Willis plays well in 2026 or looks okay, maybe it continued to build around him. Either way, the winning move for your own sake, to, to, to feel like, yes, he is part of what we're all experiencing here. He cares like we care. The fans do up in the luxury box. They care to. You take the logo guy instead. They didn't do that. How say you?

[Gino Fuentes]

Well, it's, it's kind of formulaic what they've done so far. I mean everybody knew that they were going to take an offensive lineman in a corner. That's just, that's the book on them. They were going to take someone for the trenches and someone to appease the head coach. I'm. They, they got two free fifth round picks for moving down a spot. So I can't be mad at that. But that whole thing about picking the best available player, that not, not what they did. Caleb Downs was staring them in the face. They said no. Ruben Bane staring them in the face.

[Dave]

I don't get. Yeah, the Downs Thing is also like we talked about. Sorry to interrupt you, Gino, but I do have to say again, Kyle Hamilton, the, I mean, do we have amnesia? It's the copycat league. What you want now is we talked to Daniel, Jeremiah, we talked to all sorts of people that are plugged in. And the thing that is the most coveted theoretically right now is positionless. Oh, he could play safety, he can play big, big slot. He can play on the outside if you need him to. He's sitting there. And you took an offensive lineman in a year in which you're intentionally going to be tanking. So it's a weird spot to be taking a building block kind of guy

[Gino Fuentes]

on top of the fact that their secondary is the wor part of it.

[Mike Fuentes]

And that, that's the thing. It's like everybody that I saw that talked about Kaden Proctor, that's pretty much consensus. This guy's a project, right? You're going to have to put work in. There's weight issues, there's all these work ethic issues.

[Gino Fuentes]

So, I mean, there's upside. Yeah, of course there is. Everything breaks right in the top five picks.

[Mike Fuentes]

And let's be real, we're all just like, you know, throwing stuff up against the wall scene.

[Dave]

That's, and by the way, you're absolutely right. That, that, that's why I'm so struck by it that there are some people, there are some fan bases that are PO'd right now and it generally isn't the case. Usually for at least the next 48 hours you're like, hey, you know what super bowl with this guy? You know, there are people that are

[Mike Fuentes]

mad and, and they could have done themselves at least a PR favor. Like Dave said, you take Ruben Bane, I get if you don't think he's the best guy, you don't want to do things just because the fans think. But take Ruben Bane out of the equation. There are other guys there that are more polished that you need that you could have taken. And what's two, like two fifth round picks? You know, I, I, I mean that,

[Gino Fuentes]

that, that's one bright side. You went in with 11 picks, you still have 11 picks.

[Mike Fuentes]

And then later, later in the round, you trade a third to get back a fourth and move up to get Chris.

[Dave]

No, don't move on from, don't move

[Mike Fuentes]

on from the reality.

[Dave]

Like, of course you take Reuben Bane because you don't know if that guy's a, oh, he has short arms, whatever. He, you don't know that he's a bust for Two seasons, three seasons between now and then. They're going to be so many events that that'll be in the distant memory. It's not going to be held against him. He blew it. He.

[Gino Fuentes]

Yes, they would have had Reuben Bain and Chop Robinson starting a defensive end. It pisses me off just to think that's something.

[Dave]

Right. That's something. And instead now you're always going to look back on Proctor. You're going to really are. Are you going to have visceral pleasure like in. In year four of the. Of the Proctor experience while Ruben Bane maybe thrive somewhere else in football America? Bad look. And then the other thing that's super interesting at the other end of the spectrum, the Dolphins are not contenders. The Steelers are somewhere in between I guess. And then the Rams, a lot of people are in on them. So strange timing I get. Obviously it's the quarterback league. Pay attention please. Omar Khan and Pittsburgh Steelers in the QB league you do need to solve the only position that matters at qb. And the Rams who are. Who do seem to be plugged into that reality with Matthew Stafford and all the rest of it, they go and take Ty Simpson. It makes some sense because a year ago at this time, in fact even nine months ago that we were talking about like are we sure Matthew Stafford's even going to be able to play? Then he goes out and has an MVP season but still he's, you know, he's getting long in the tooth. And so now they have Ty Simpson in the pipeline to take over when Matthew Stafford finally hangs it up at 13. It feels a little bit rich. I know that I'm in the minority. I advocated for the Steelers who are in a desperate spot to take Ty Simpson. Were he there when they were still drafting. Obviously he is taken off the board by one of the real QB whisper, Sean McVeigh and or less sneed some. Some suggestion that Les Sneed did it on the assumption that Sean McVeigh is going to walk when Matthew Stafford does. And so that's intriguing. The it's sort of a little bit like the Green Bay Aaron Rodgers. Why are you drafting my replacement while I'm still here? Kind of reality but you know, in the here and now if you are Matthew Stafford or Sean McVeigh, you. You're considered to be a or the super bowl contender from the nfc. And so drafting for the future instead of for right now seems a little bit questionable. Mike Fuentes, how say you?

[Mike Fuentes]

No, just one more thing on. On Proctor.

[Dave]

I just went on and on about the Rams. Yeah. You're back to the Dolphins. Yeah, the Dolphins are the worst team. I know. Yeah.

[Mike Fuentes]

But I mean, I just gotta say. Thing I'm going to say is when the highlight package they play on ESPN after you get drafted as an offensive lineman, his trick plays. Probably not the best, probably not the best pick that's available. But I know what happened.

[Dave]

You know what I think happened? Oh, okay. I was just about to say I didn't think I would. What My, my assumption. You weren't listening to me and so you just went back to the previous conversation.

[Mike Fuentes]

No, no, I do have other work to do. So I'm trying to get out of this as fast as possible. But the Ty Simpson thing is, is taking, taking the best quarterback so early, you know that, you know, a lot of, a lot of players got, got traded back. You probably could have got him six picks later, you know, so that, that's the only Fumble there. I mean you're going to need somebody for Stafford eventually. He already had the back thing. Sure he had the best year of his career. But you know, reality is he's pushing 40 years old and, and I don't think anybody wants to deal with what the Steelers are dealing with now with a 40 year old man.

[Gino Fuentes]

I don't think they wanted to mess with the jets who were sitting there at 16 because the jets also need a quarterback.

[Mike Fuentes]

Yeah, but you can still move back like they got him at 13. You can move back two spots.

[Dave]

You know, I love the idea, I love the idea of Aaron Rodgers wherever he is in Northern California watching this draft as though is because the reality has been created for him by the Steelers and the Steelers alone, just sitting there watching the draft to see if it meets his satisfaction while he eats grapes. All right, I guess I will, I guess I will go back to Pittsburgh for one more year. Uninspired stuff. All right, listen, what is inspiring is milling around with the literally hundreds of thousands of people in Pittsburgh and I appreciate everybody who came up and said hello and listens to the show and said all the nice things and one guy in fact back stop me to say, make sure you say hello to Greg Cody specifically. Not anybody else, but just Greg Cody. So, so that was all great stuff. And next week we will have for you. We got to sit down on Wednesday with Pitt head coach. We're trying to get the vibes, you know, the ultimate football city and all of that. So we sat down with Pat Narduzzi, the pit head football coach. It was a great time, me and Lucy Rodin Running around Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, the day before the draft. And the results of that interview for you next week. We just, we're trying to. Timing wise, you don't really care. You don't need us to show you how the sausage is made. But with us out here, we decided to do something without knowing how Friday's gonna go or how Saturday is gonna go to instead, talk about something. We got a great tweet from a fellow football American. We lean into that now and. And roll it. Would you let me tell you about my kids? Well, I'm about to take them off to Las Vegas, which makes me a great parent. And as far as that goes, I've been a great parent since they were born because when they were born, everything changed for me as it does for everybody. Maybe a little bit more because I'm a great, great guy. I'm society's greatest empath. But I assume all parents understand the massive change that happens the moment that baby arrives. There's an overwhelming feeling that hits you. It's. It's a de to protect them. Suddenly, every decision you make is about them and their future. And that's why I'm going to Las Vegas. I'm not going to get anything out of it. Obviously, the last thing a person wants to worry about is how the family's going to be taken care of, how they're going to pay the bills. If something were to happen to you, would they be financially prepared? With life insurance from Ethos, your family is protected. Ethos is an online platform that makes getting life insurance fast and easy. To protect your family's future, you can get a quote in seconds, apply in minutes, and get day coverage. No waiting around for months or even days. There's no complicated process. Trust me. It's just 100% online. Super duper easy. Not even a medical exam. You just answer a few simple health questions. 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Thousands of guys have already used RULER to finally get the care they needed. Don't keep putting it off. Go to rula.comfba and get started today. Again, that's R U L A.comfba take the first step, get connected and take control of your mental health. All right, so now we are teleporting via our DeLorean from Friday. It's still Friday or maybe it's past Friday and maybe it's Saturday or Sunday or next Monday when you're listening to this. But we have just journeyed into the DeLorean back to last Monday. 5. Yep. Okay, we get it. We got it. Now. I feel like these are multiple trips. Every time I hear the DeLorean jingle, it makes me think we've taken it. That's I. We only took one journey from Friday back to Monday, but the listener is still in Friday or maybe even beyond then into the deep future. Now, either way. Also, slow down.

[Gino Fuentes]

88 miles an hour is really fast, man. Come on.

[Dave]

At no point is that 88 miles an hour, Gino. Thank you, Gino. Hey. All right, so here's what I want to talk about with you and your brother and Ethan. Let's dig in here. I got a note now, more than a week ago, for the listener. It was just a couple a few days ago, but either way, I'm getting confused with the. With the space time continuum. So I'm bailing on it and just going to talk as though we're in the here and now, which in fact we are. I got a Note from listener RIP Robin2 on social media and he is struck by the T Wolves and Nuggets series and he says it's the best sports rivalry of the last three years. Damek make this a thing. And I like this. And I say let's not just make it a thing, let's make it a whole list. So with the help of the Fuentes boys and Ethan B. Let's get into this now. I love this subject. I think it's just the tip of the iceberg Nugs T Wolves is grand, obviously, but there are a lot of rivalries that didn't exist until 20 years ago, or maybe even less than that. And in the. And also there are a lot of rivalries that used to exist that have now evaporated like tears in the rain. Name that movie. Mike Fuentes, Blade Runner. Ah, very good. I knew you'd get that one. So where do you come down on this? What is your favorite? Let's make a nice list here. As a matter of fact, back, let's see if we can make it a comprehensive one. New age rivalries. Go.

[Mike Fuentes]

Okay, so there's new age rivalries, which are probably rivalries that have come into play over the last few, even just seasons of whatever sport. You know, that's what new means.

[Dave]

Yes, right. Yes, we're up to speed.

[Mike Fuentes]

But the thing is rivalry. You think, oh, there's some kind of geographic rivalry or inner division, but there's a lot of rivalries that have existed that really only existed because teams played each other. And one that I remember not too recently, but within the last 10 years, the Golden State warriors and the Cleveland Cavaliers, spurned by just LeBron going back to Cleveland, they paid. They played in what, five straight NBA Finals?

[Gino Fuentes]

It was at least four.

[Ethan]

Four, four straight because LeBron was in Cleveland for four years.

[Mike Fuentes]

Almost half a decade of NBA Finals between these two teams. Teams that would never have a problem with each other for any reason.

[Dave]

Yeah. That's wild. Right? Right. If you're good, if you're relevant in postseasons, it's going to force some sense of a rivalry. Obviously. Celtics, Lakers is probably the number one. I've made that list before, as a matter of fact. Ones that are not regionally related, just related because they were both good at the same time and kept playing each other. Cowboys and Steelers in the 70s also fits that description. And then in. And you know, maybe one of the more enduring ones because of being good in January when the playoffs were going on, Packers, Niners and Cowboys. That has existed at least since back to the start of the super bowl era and even before then. And then there are those ones that were. I mean, they made the 30 for 30 out of the Pacers and Knickerbockers. That was great. Reggie Miller, that's a great example of one that existed for only a short amount of time, but, man, it burned hot while it existed. Another good one, I guess, is close to where you guys are heated. Knickerbockers was great in the 90s, right?

[Mike Fuentes]

Yeah, but he didn't. Knickerbockers. I hate knickerbockers. Sounds so weird. Like, there's a big, like. I don't know if you know this, Dave. New York has a ton of Miami transplants. Not so much the other way, but,

[Dave]

like, I heard about that. Yeah.

[Mike Fuentes]

So that's kind of what makes that rivalry, because I think that's the only Heat game you go to. And the Heat fan is probably outpaced by the Knick fan, even when the Knicks are bad. So it's. It's that kind of rivalry, but another instant.

[Dave]

Oh, so it's a takeo.

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Dave]

So the Heat arena gets taken over.

[Mike Fuentes]

Yeah. They come down here, they enjoy our Latin food, they enjoy our no income tax, and then they want to come and wear that blue and orange crap all over the stadium.

[Ethan]

And it's also not just the team. Sorry, Dave. It's not just the teams. Like, there's a geographic rivalry between Miami and New York where if you live in Miami, you hate all of the New York teams no matter what. It's the same thing with Miami and Boston. Like Miami and Boston fans, for whatever reason, like, every Miami Heat fan hates the Boston Celtics, Every Florida Panther fan hates the Boston Bruins. Like, it's just kind of how it is with those two cities in particular. I don't really know why. I guess it kind of stems from it. It probably goes back to the Dolphins and the jets and the Dolphins and the Patriots, if I had to imagine. But really, the super intense Boston and New York rivalries for the Miami fan are the two basketball rivalries, the Celtics and the Knicks.

[Dave]

Yeah, I, you know, I think New York City, Manhattan, and all its advantages, you know, big spending and multiple teams per sport, just about that makes them unlikable. La. Is that on the West Coast? Everybody. The evil empire of the Pacific time zone is the Dodgers, obviously, and the Lakers to a large degree too, in usc. And so they kind of have to wear all that. A good, newer one is the. The Ducks. Improbably, nobody, as I've said many times, nobody cares about the Anaheim Ducks. I've lived out here for a quarter century or more now. No one has ever come up to me and been like, hey, you catch that Anaheim game last night? No one ever does it. I think they have 20,000 fans. Those are the people who hold their season tickets. I can't imagine that there are more than maybe like a half dozen or so other people who don't gain access to Ducks games that are actually listening to them on the radio in the regular season or watching them on tv. However, Ducks Sharks, improbably, is a real good one. And I keep saying if you would move the Ducks to Portland, it would get even juicier. But as it stands, all of a sudden, West Coast NHL rivalries are real good. Because Kings Ducks ain't great. It should be there, but, you know, just because they're close to each other, it hasn't really emerged. And like I said, I think the hockey market is. I think it's good in la, but the double down on teams in Southern California is completely unnecessary. But I mean, if you had Seattle and Portland and Vancouver. But as it is, Vegas and LA and all those teams in Colorado has yielded some pretty good ongoing rivalries, not unlike one that didn't exist in the Sunshine State at the turn of the millennium. Lightning, Panthers.

[Mike Fuentes]

But I feel like for you to have a good rivalry, especially regionally, you have to have an animosity amongst fans. And the Lightning and the Panthers have that. I don't really feel like. Vegas, Colorado, Kings, there's not really an animosity.

[Dave]

Ethan. What?

[Ethan]

Yeah, I was just gonna say that. A lot of those Western, like, I was thinking about the Western Conference and I'm like, okay, like, there's gotta be one that's really developed out here. The Knights don't really have like a true rival yet. I don't know if you asked a nice fan, like, who they would say maybe Edmonton, because they've played them a couple times in the playoffs. Like. But that Sharks Ducks rivalry is about to get really good, Dave, because the Sharks have Macklin Celebrini and the Ducks are in the playoffs for the first time this year. And I think they're going to be a staple for the next few years, don't you think?

[Mike Fuentes]

Like, and when it comes to the west coast despite Edmonton making all these finals. I feel like the rivalry out there is like Dallas Stars and I was

[Ethan]

going to say, yeah, that one. Or I. I also have Edmonton Dallas on my list because they've played in the last like two, two Western Conference finals and I think like three of five or something like that, if I'm not mistaken.

[Dave]

All right, let's cobble these together into our proper list in order and figure out which one the best is. I have a pretty good opinion. I think it's going to be hard to debate that the one I have is the best of the 21st century, but some of our fellow football Americans weighed in here. Aztec says Padres, Dodgers, which is one that has been around for a long time, but it has heated up. Little brother Chase.

[Mike Fuentes]

Yeah, this is a little brother situation happening where the Padres are the obvious little brother.

[Dave]

Yeah, our Guy, Patty Griner, 29 in Philadelphia chimes in with Georgia, Alabama and then other people said that one, too. I felt like that one, you know, classic though that's old as.

[Ethan]

No, that's not true. That's really the, the legacy. As an SEC fan, the legacy SEC rivalry, at least in SEC championships, is Florida and Alabama. Florida has never played another team besides Alabama in the SEC championship. And until last year, neither school had ever lost to another school other than each other in the SEC championship game. Like Alabama always beat Georgia. They always beat whoever else he threw at them from the East. But like Florida had is the only team from the east that had beaten Alabama, right. Until Georgia beat them.

[Dave]

Bear Bryant's Bama kind of dipped as Vince Dooley sort of. Georgia sort of ascended and, and was probably a little bit better over, you know, three decades. I know. You don't need to drop me a line, Bama fans. I know that Gene Stallings and company stole that one against the U, as a matter of fact. I mean, if you go back, if

[Gino Fuentes]

you go back just a little bit before this, this recent Georgia run in college football, Alabama and Clemson not in the same conference.

[Dave]

Yeah, I have that one written down. That's one that burned hot briefly and I think is probably over now unless Dabo can rally Clemson. But yes, they, they made the big stage and was like, I don't think they're ever going to get over the hump in the tournament. And then they did get over The Hump with DeSean Watson and Trevor Lawrence.

[Ethan]

They played in two consecutive national championships and then a third one later. Right. The, the Trevor Lawrence national championship was Clemson, Alabama. Those were the two teams at the

[Dave]

top Played each other.

[Ethan]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dave]

Well, that one, infamously, is when I was talking to desean Watson. I'm not sure what happened to him since, but I was talking to him when he was the Houston Tex since qb. And I said to him, Trevor Lawrence. Trevor Lawrence had won the national championship. And I said, man, these are heady days down there for Clemson supporters. And I said, but you don't want Trevor Lawrence to win again this year. And he said, why not? And I said, well, because you both have one national championship. If Trevor Lawrence wins a second one, he becomes the greatest quarterback in Clemson history, Right? And he kind of chuckled and then we moved on with the conversation. And then an hour later, I received a call from. From the producers that desean's publicist reached out to let me know that desean didn't appreciate that line of questioning. Like I say, I don't know what's happened to him since. So I wish him nothing but the best. But some other ones here for you. John Fink mentions Lightning, Panthers, Saints, Buccaneers is a real good one. Greg Cody versus Canada. Norm Baker mentions Greg Cody versus Canada is great.

[Ethan]

That's a great one.

[Dave]

Yeah. Justin Mills says LeBron v. Father Time. Ford Kendrick says again. See, there's that Georgia Bama one again. Oilers, Knights, Wolves, Nuggets, Liverpool v. Man. City.

[Ethan]

That's a really strong one. That's a really strong one because City has only come like up to be the one of these storied teams in England within the last, what, 15 years.

[Mike Fuentes]

Liverpool.

[Ethan]

No, no, no, City. City. City. Yeah. City really made their ascension when they were bought by the Saudis. Yeah, what is it, Dubai? The Emirates?

[Dave]

Anyway, I mean, that's a whole. By the way, that's a whole league 1. The Livy PGA is a pretty good 21st century rivalry that it feels like the PGA has now won. That has vanquished the Flarer. 4 says Aaron Rodgers v. The Steeler salary cap. I don't know what the hell. Steve Harder says. Nebraska, Iowa, I think that transcends the 21st century. They've been playing for quite a while. All right, here, here's one for you. I got one. Go ahead, go ahead.

[Mike Fuentes]

The Kansas City Chiefs. Chiefs. The Kansas City Chiefs vs. Josh Allen's Buffalo Bills.

[Dave]

Well, I'll throw into that one too. I think it's a three way one and you could really expand it into four ways. It's the. Actually you can make it five now because it's all about that. This weird sequence of events lands all the best quarterbacks in pro Football or at least of a certain generation, all on one side of things in the afc. So you have have Mahomes Chiefs and Allen's Bills and Lamar's Ravens. But also you really have Burrows Bengals who really go ahead of either the Bills or Ravens because they beat the Chiefs in the playoffs and just about beat them a second time. They actually got the super to a Super bowl, whereas those others one haven't. And I guess you could say the same thing about Justin Herbert's Chargers. So you kind of have this enduring rivalry which is great stuff for a football fan, especially AFC football fans. I don't know when the NFC side of things is going to hold up its end of the bargain. I know Jaden Daniels is there, settled down. Ooh. Also Drake May is in the mix now doing it.

[Mike Fuentes]

Stafford's still doing it.

[Dave]

Yeah, well you know I, I feel like where the Rams are, I. Oh you know what? Right at the end, right at the turn of all that Greatest show on Turf is a great example of a period specific rivalry. The all offense St. Louis Rams against the all defense Tampa Bay Buccaneers was great for a couple few years, then it just went away. But man, that was a really good one. Styles make the fights and all of that. You know, obviously one of the great rivalries in the history of people is Ali v. Frazier because of exactly that effect. Speaking of that, does boxing have any. I don't know. Mma, golf doesn't.

[Ethan]

I don't feel Tiger Phil is older than 30, is older than 20 years. It's outside our date.

[Dave]

Yeah, that doesn't matter. I mean Joker, Federer, Nadal is strictly 21st century, right?

[Ethan]

In F1 you have Verstappen and Hamilton. That was like one of the great rivalries in that sports history. Especially that one season where it came down to the very last race that would. That was one I thought of earlier.

[Dave]

I don't know exactly how to couch this one. Astros, Dodgers, Red Sox. It kind of feels like Astros against the rules kind of could be the, the ongoing rivalry but man, Dodgers fans and Red Sox fans in an ongoing way hate the. And Yankees fans too hate the Astros.

[Ethan]

That was on my list, Dave, because the Astros remember recently made a switch to the American League. So I considered putting the Astros the in and the Dodgers because just because of the 2017 World Series. Right. Like Alex Bregman is still getting booed when he goes even on the Cubs now he was in Cleveland recently and he was still getting booed when he got up to the plate I guess because of the Astros Thing. But the Astros, because they made the switch to the American League, I think around 2014, when they evened up the leagues, they needed a new rival because they were out of the NL Central. And they picked it up in form of. In the form of the Red Sox and the Yankees, because those three teams have played each other in the playoffs so much in the last 10 years or so that those were definitely the two on my list. I didn't have the Dodgers, I considered it, but because they're different leagues, I didn't put them together. But obviously that 2017 World Series is one of the most contentious, more so afterwards because of the scandal that came out than it was at the time, actually.

[Dave]

Well, I mean, also on the list of. Of rivalries that exist, not because of regional proximity, although it started that way. Dodgers, Yankees, obviously they're both New York. But then it goes on through the decades because they met in the World Series, they meet in 77, 78, 81. Then a couple of years ago they played again. So that one, because they have both been good through the decades, that one goes on different than that. Penguins, wings, that was real good back to back Stanley Cup Finals. But that kind of went away when the wings kind of faded from relevance.

[Gino Fuentes]

I got one.

[Dave]

He. I've got one more for you. Penn's Capitals. Was that when. Now that I'm on the Penguins was at. They were in the Patrick division for a long time. So once the Capitals arrived in the NHL, they were playing each other pretty regularly. But it wasn't as heated a rivalry as it was like Penn's Flyers, Penn's Islanders, any Patrick division team, because the Capitals weren't that good. But it went to another level and became the NHL rivalry this millennium because of Ovechkin and Crosby.

[Ethan]

Did somebody say he did rivalry?

[Dave]

Oh, there you go. Yeah, Did I say he did rivalry? I don't know what you did. I'm watching them when they're playing. What they do after the game is their business.

[Ethan]

You reference Crosby, Novechkin, which everybody kind of assumes is what he did. Rivalry is based off of. So that was really fun. That was perfect.

[Dave]

Good, good. Let them. Let them make their love on each other. It's not your business what they do. Go ahead, Gino.

[Gino Fuentes]

Let me see. We're talking about rivalries that started within the last 30 years, right? It. This is. It's kind of a group, but it is geographical. When the Texans came in, the Seahawks moved from the AFC to the NFC. So now all of those divisions in the NFC, all of those rivalries with the Seahawks in the NFC Western New they're within the last 30 years. The Seahawks and the 49ers had a heated one more recently.

[Dave]

That's my number one. That's the number one on the list. Spoiled it. That's the number one. There's not one that compares. Right, but is there one? Let's stop on that one. I mean 49 Seahawks this year. It's barely. I mean dig it up. I mean they barely ever faced each other in The Seahawks first 30 years of existence and then it becomes, you know, alongside Steelers, Ravens and then ooh, another great one that I'm glad I stumbled into as the Seahawks and Niners rose up up around 10 years thereabouts into the 21st century and kept playing each other in big spots and, and just did like you say a couple months ago in the playoffs. Another one. Peyton and Brady. Brady and Peyton. That's a great one that, that, I mean that lived on for a long time and really emerges right around my list.

[Mike Fuentes]

That's on my list of classic dead rivalries. Colts, Patriots.

[Ethan]

Yep.

[Dave]

When.

[Mike Fuentes]

When Brady.

[Ethan]

When I was a kid. That is. That was it like in the afc.

[Mike Fuentes]

You know, the Patriots just bounced back after Brady left and the Colts have been dead in the water since. Look retired. So it's, it's just, you know, you

[Ethan]

could put Steelers Patriots on that list too. Dave. Think about how many times those teams met in big spots. You have that controversial call that was completely screwed. The Steelers with the. The touchdown at the goal line or whatever. I don't remember what year that was.

[Dave]

Jesse James. Jesse James caught the ball. Yeah. Well that changes NFL history considerably, if you buy my logic. That had the Jesse James catch counted at the back end of the regular season and that's the same season that the Dolphins do the. The desperation pitch in down in Miami. Remember that Gronk try. I don't remember who scored the touchdown for the Dolphins. I just remember they were in Kenny and Drake throwback uniforms. Yes.

[Gino Fuentes]

Gronk had to try and Gronk diving

[Dave]

to try and stop. It was right.

[Ethan]

Doesn't have the angle.

[Mike Fuentes]

I almost remember the entire sequence. It was devonte Parker to Kenny Stills. Kenny Stills. Kenny and Drake. Kenny and Drake run.

[Dave]

There you go. That's pretty good.

[Ethan]

Great names.

[Mike Fuentes]

Great names.

[Ethan]

Devonte Parker can he still was. That was a fun team.

[Dave]

I. You know I wonder if there's. I mean if you're a real. A self identifying Cal Die Hard. You should be able to name every guy who handled the ball On.

[Ethan]

On the play.

[Dave]

Stanford. Yeah. You should be able to come up with all those names. Yeah. Well, I hate to say this. I, you know, I'm not trying to. Especially in. In a week spent in Pittsburgh Penns. I hate to have to say this out loud. Much as the Steelers are the hammer to the brown snail, that's kind of what the Steelers were. The Brady's Patriots. And I can't really argue that. But Mike Fuentes, you make an interesting point. Maybe it's not just Peyton and Brady. Maybe May and Nick's have delivered it into transcending just those two cats and now Broncos Patriots. Is the rivalry ongoing?

[Mike Fuentes]

Yeah, maybe the. Well, it would have been better if we didn't have Jared Stidham starting AFC championship. But true, we. But it's a budding.

[Dave]

But that adds to it. That adds to it because Broncos fans say, well, you know, we would have beaten you if. If Knicks would have played, you wouldn't have had a shot.

[Mike Fuentes]

Now that you say that, there's a real question. The, the art of the height of the hypothetical, you know, because that, like you said, it makes me.

[Ethan]

It's what Justin Herbert lives off of.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Mike Fuentes]

What the what what if, man? You know, it's like, oh, love. If Bo would have been healthy, we would have been there and then it would have been, wow, that's. That super bowl would have been so boring. But the Bo Knicks. What's this guy's name? Starting quarterback Sam Darnold. Sam Darnold. Super bowl would have been terrible. Not that this was much better. But yeah, the what if factor for. But that. That is a nice brewing rivalry. But we all know the rivalry that still holds at the top of the afc, like you said, is Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen. I guess if you want to put Justin Herbert in there versus Patrick and Joe Burrow versus Patrick Mahomes, because Joe Burrow hasn't even really been healthy since that Super Bowl. Yeah. So we don't even know how.

[Ethan]

He hasn't really done much since that. Since they got to that super bowl,

[Mike Fuentes]

excluding Herbert, because let's be realistic. Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson versus Patrick Mahomes and then you have, you know, second tier Bo, Nick Strake May budding.

[Dave]

Well, that's maybe a different generation altogether. Right. That's separated by five years.

[Mike Fuentes]

They're trying to get into that. That we want to be the first Mahomes guy. You know what I mean? We want a slot there versus Mahomes in that.

[Dave]

Well, I mean, you know, the, the idea that I Guess it gets derailed a little bit with JJ McCarthy having to sit down. But it's conceivable that that whole draft class will have an ongoing rivalry against each other. Daniels v. Caleb. You know, who knows? If Jane Jaden Daniels hadn't gotten hurt last year, if the. If the commies would have been a different team, it would have been a factor. I don't think they would have, but I think it resumes now in 2026. And then on the other side, May

[Ethan]

and Nick, obviously I thought NFL when you brought up this topic, but it's so hard to find new rivalries in the NFL. Like Seahawks, Niners is really the only one you can think of. And then you can go to like, the newer teams in the nfc, in the AFC south, right? Like the Panthers, whoever. But even then, like, those haven't been established as like real rivalries because those teams haven't been successful. So then I started to branch out in the other sports. And the biggest one, which might be one of like the top five most intense rivalries in all of sports right now, the first one that jumped to mind is Panthers lightning, because the Panthers are finally successful. And that was always like the Florida teams. It's supposed to be the Florida rivalry, but it's not actually a rivalry until you play each other in the playoffs. And really specifically until each team has beaten each other in the playoffs. I think it's like the thing that you have to do there. So the lightning had gotten the Panthers a couple times, and then finally in 2024, the Panthers got the lightning and it was already intense, it was already heated, and those two teams really hated each other. But once the Panthers finally got over the hump against the lightning, it felt like that took off. And I think that's such a big thing about rivalries that we don't talk about enough, is you got to play in the playoffs and you got to beat each other in the playoffs because,

[Dave]

well, if you knock the other out of the play from making the playoffs, that counts exactly the same.

[Ethan]

That's true.

[Dave]

How. Look at how the Steelers and Raven season has ended. It cost John Harbaugh his job, period. Literally cost him his job because the kid missed a field goal at the end. Mike Tomlin, as it happens, also moved on, if you missed that.

[Ethan]

But so many of those NFL rivalries are like legacy rivalries because the divisions have been around for a long time and the teams have always played each other. So you have to, like, kind of branch out to the other sports and like, like, I Said like I could.

[Dave]

Yeah. But before you do, why. Why is it. It's. It's. There's a weird thing from a distance that I don't understand why it isn't bigger is. So you have lightning and panthers and you have the ongoing. It misses our window of let's say the last 25 years or so or, or this century. But the three headed monster of Florida college football. I mean it consumed.

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Dave]

The catch, the three Florida teams. But you know, like Bobby Bowden's knowles were good, you know before the 20. So, so was the U. But that they were playing each other for national championships and everything else.

[Ethan]

Never been a thing.

[Dave]

Didn't happen.

[Ethan]

Well, Florida, Florida did play Florida state in the 1996 Sugar Bowl. That was, that was the only one. Right.

[Dave]

Which was bogus after State beat them head to head. Which given the structure of college football at the time, why you get another shot. Like the whole thing was like one and done. Like you lose. You.

[Ethan]

Yeah, but we showed them in the national championship game who the better team was. We beat their ass in the national championship.

[Dave]

I did have one for Florida beating first time. My question is for people in Florida, why aren't, why aren't the Jags and Bucks and Dolphins rivals? Is. I guess the answer is what we're talking about. They haven't all been good at the same.

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Mike Fuentes]

And also who came first?

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Mike Fuentes]

The Dolphins have Florida's team forever. The Jaguars are like new, you know, and like the Bucks, relatively new compared to the Dolphins and the Dolphins, you got to hold it up 50 years and counting. Perfect season.

[Dave]

All right.

[Gino Fuentes]

Boom.

[Mike Fuentes]

That's. We still hold that up like it matters.

[Dave]

So. And also what you do is, what you should do is. Let me just say this to you. I've said this for a decade at least. College football has better rivalries than the NFL does for the most part. And you could with that extra game. And now if they're going to go to 18 games, even more real estate to make this happen, you should have, you should attempt to create as many regional rivalries that don't exist year to year and they're. And they're right there for you. You could have the Dolphins and Bucks play every year and call it the Orange.

[Ethan]

It's a great idea. It's a great idea.

[Dave]

You could have the Steelers and Eagles play every year and have the, the, the Keystone bowl, jets and Giants. You could have the Queso bowl with the Cowboys and the Texans or with the, you could have that. Which one did you just throw Out.

[Ethan]

Jets, Giants, the Snoopy Bowl.

[Dave]

A good idea. Here. The I65 Bears and Colts, you know, they connect.

[Ethan]

Well, the Bears might be in Indianapolis or might be in Indiana soon. So then that's an interstate rivalry.

[Mike Fuentes]

There's nothing.

[Dave]

Yeah, you're right. That's absolutely right.

[Mike Fuentes]

There's nothing like that already.

[Dave]

Chargers.

[Ethan]

No, because the divisions rotate every year, and then you have an extra NFC game now or an extra interconference game, but it rotates. But, Dave, I think the big thing about why the Dolphins haven't picked up the Jags or Bucks is because. Because the Dolphins legacy rivalries have already been established with the Patriots and the Jets. Like, we're so trained to hate the jets and the Bills and the Patriots.

[Mike Fuentes]

Those are so interdivisional. Like, it's not.

[Ethan]

That's what I'm saying, though. Like, they've been. There are rivals the entire time we've ever existed.

[Dave]

So it's like you guys are missing the big one. In my opinion here, no one has hit in all. No, no, no. Not NFL if it's not Seahawks, Niners, and I. And I think actually the NFL one we've discussed, those AFC teams with the elite QBs is great, and we get to live in it for at least another half decade. So that's great. But the other one that's really emerged big time in the last 10 years, maybe even less than that. How about the US of A against Canada in hockey? That's it, right? You know they hate each other.

[Mike Fuentes]

Yeah, they hate each other. But also, I guess in the last 10 years. Yes, because I remember when I was researching this, you know, during the Olympics, I was looking up a lot of, like, Olympic hockey stuff. Canada was pretty relevant, I mean, irrelevant in, in the Olympics.

[Ethan]

Well, that's because it was amateurs.

[Mike Fuentes]

Exactly. Until recently.

[Ethan]

So that's why Russia dominated so much. Because Russia could play the pros.

[Mike Fuentes]

Because they were lying. Because Russia was lying. Because Russia would have a guy working in a. They say he's working in a factory.

[Ethan]

He played hockey, played in the khl.

[Mike Fuentes]

Right, exactly. So they were lying. You know, they do that often. But, like, when the pros came in, then all of a sudden Canada got the same boost, just like the USA did.

[Ethan]

Yeah, you can't really. I, I, yeah, I get what you're saying, Dave. Like, it's really turned. It's kind of like, who do we mention? Or the Padres and Dodgers. That's really turned up in the last few years or so.

[Dave]

Right. Little brother catching up. Right.

[Ethan]

And that's because Little brother finally caught up and got them like really this year. But you look back at like the 1996 World cup of Hockey, like, like people talk about that as like one of the most legendary international tournaments in hockey and in other things, period. Like that was just Electric in the U.S. beat Canada in a two out of three series in the final, which is. That would be, wouldn't that be awesome if we could get more 2 out of 3 series like that? Like.

[Dave]

Well, it's too bad that we like Russia because of Putin and what, you know, in 1980 the U.S. i'm sure you guys have heard about this. They, they just, you know, Jimmy Carter just said we're not going to the, to the games in, in Moscow with reason and we boycotted. And now we just don't let the Russians play in our. In. In our games. We, they don't play in our Reindeer games society games anymore. But it's, it's kind of like, I mean the greatest hockey tournament ever was the 1987 Canada cup and it led to a three game showdown and all three games were six, five gems. They are the best games games you'll ever see. But before that the US and Soviets were basketball rivals and the US generally won. But then, I mean the, the most crooked end to a game you'll ever see in any sport anywhere is you ever see the 7?

[Ethan]

I've heard about this. I don't remember what happened.

[Mike Fuentes]

I didn't know what it did until I saw the Dream Team documentary. And then I was like, oh wow, that's corrupt. Yeah.

[Dave]

And then that's what the end of that game. If you do yourself a favor, if you want to get yourself worked, I'm

[Ethan]

doing it right now.

[Dave]

Watch. Well, wait till the show's over. Why don't you do that? But, but, but, but as soon as we're done, then, then the world is your oyster. The. Yes. Go watch the, the la. It is crazy how that game ends. You keep thinking like, well surely that's it. Nope. Then they like, nope, do over. Do over. They just keep doing it over until the Soviets win the game. It's crazy anyhow. Yeah, that one's gotten the way of the dodo bird too because of geopolitics.

[Mike Fuentes]

Well, I'm glad you mentioned that, Dave, because one race that the USA beat those Soviets in the space race, baby. USA two time moon visitors.

[Ethan]

That's right.

[Mike Fuentes]

Suck it Soviet Union.

[Ethan]

Let's go

[Dave]

wow the Eagles out. Michael Uzi, who owns the moon? Us.

[Mike Fuentes]

That's right. We're Gonna call it the US Moon. That's right. We're putting.

[Ethan]

You know.

[Mike Fuentes]

You know, I'm being disrespectful. Let me stand. I don't want to take it.

[Dave]

Yeah. Let me take my caps off, guys. Respect the anthem. Yeah. All right. Respect the anthem.

[Mike Fuentes]

Thank you.

[Dave]

I didn't even put one on. That's how big a patriot I am.

[Mike Fuentes]

You're so respectful, it's crazy. All right, that's enough.

[Dave]

Who would win in a fight, an eagle or a bear? What is Canada's national animal? Do they have a beast?

[Ethan]

When I think Canada, I think moose. I think moose me.

[Dave]

Mooses. Is that right, though? It's definitely a moose. I mean, it makes sense that it would be a moose. Does Canada have that fight, though? A bear. A bear versus an eagle.

[Gino Fuentes]

Bear would swat that thing once and that'd be over.

[Ethan]

Apparently, the beaver is the official. It's Canada's official national mascot, which. Come on. An eagle is tearing a beaver.

[Mike Fuentes]

I gotta say, Ron McGill did tell us that an eagle is just a vulture with good pr. Yeah, he did tell us that.

[Dave]

So is that true? Yeah, because my. My. The puncher's chance that the US Would have if we. If we sent our national beast against Russia's would be that. That. That the talon could grab an eyeball. Right? Like, do like Beatrix Kiddo did Daryl Hannah in the trailer in Kill Bill. That's right. That's what she did. She took the eyeball. If that ego could go get an eye off the bear. Now. Now we're talking now. Now it's on.

[Mike Fuentes]

But it's.

[Dave]

A bear gets it with what?

[Mike Fuentes]

In Game of Thrones, when Braun goes to fight the mountain, and he goes, yeah, sure, I'm fast. I could probably outrun. He might tire. But I make one wrong move like that, I'm dead.

[Gino Fuentes]

He was.

[Mike Fuentes]

Yeah. Same thing with the eagle. Yeah.

[Dave]

So the fight. But the. But the Viper let pride get in the way. He had to dance. He had. He. He. He had. He was. It was over. That. That settled that.

[Gino Fuentes]

That's what made it so heartbreaking.

[Dave]

All the coaches that are coaching NHL or basketball teams right now should show everybody that fight about the Viper be the mountain. Because it was over. Just. Just keep your foot on the gas and. And you're in the winter circle. But instead, he had to turn around. He had the preen for the crowd, like a fancy man. And then he got. I mean, both.

[Mike Fuentes]

He was.

[Dave]

Both.

[Mike Fuentes]

He was looking for something specific. He wanted an admission of guilt that they killed his family. But, you know, how about you kill the guy first, then go looking for the admission? That's what I would have done.

[Dave]

Is that the second. No, wait. You know, Game of Thrones deserves to have the stink on it that it does forever because of its last season, what they did to all of us. Not. Not since Lost. Have. Have I been betrayed by a TV show like Game of Thrones did. That said, I really don't think. I'm trying to think, is there a moment in TV better way to ask the question that has now passed through my brain and I pass on to you.

[Gino Fuentes]

You.

[Dave]

Has any TV show ever that you've watched had a moment as jarring as any of these three? Viper getting his eyes. Getting his head squashed in his eyes. Pop, pop, poked out of his head and all that. What's his name? Getting his wiener cut off at the end like we took his wiener.

[Mike Fuentes]

Theon.

[Dave]

Theon Greyjoy. No joy there. No, it was gray, very gray. And then. And then. And then, of course. The Red Wedding.

[Ethan]

Yeah. Dave, I've got an answer for you.

[Dave]

Red Wedding is. Red Wedding is the most upset, I think, like in reality or watching a show. It's in the top three worst moments of my life.

[Ethan]

Dave, there's this show called the Sopranos, and I don't know if you've heard about how it ends, but that wasn't

[Dave]

jarring in the moment people thought their cable went out.

[Ethan]

Like, people were like, scrambling, running around, like, what about the event?

[Dave]

You're talking about the effect. I'm talking about like, what the hell? That's the end of the show. The show ends with that.

[Mike Fuentes]

Yeah, but they leave it up to your imagination to what happens where in Game of Thrones, the Red Wedding, you knew they were dead. There was Richie.

[Dave]

April getting shot was pretty shocking, too. What the hell? She just killed him, Janice. I buried him up in the forest. He's surrounded by some knockout. Nice trees, overlooking a lake. Really. No, Janice, what do you care?

[Ethan]

Is that it's hard to find a more jarring moment than a show. Just go like, spoiler alert, I guess, like the statute of limitation. I watched the show. I knew what happened. Have you seen then the show going to black?

[Dave]

You know what happened?

[Ethan]

Yeah, I've seen. I've watched the show. I finally got around to watching the. The finale recently.

[Dave]

But do you know? And what do you think happened?

[Ethan]

I think the story just. I think it just goes on. Like, I think that's just. Well, didn't they confirm it in that.

[Mike Fuentes]

In that Nick's Record. Yeah.

[Ethan]

But then also, I saw an interview with David Chase where apparently, I don't think anybody. It's ever actually been confirmed. But watch that Pablo Torre finds out.

[Dave]

I said he got David J. Said, you're supposed to assume he's dead,

[Ethan]

obviously.

[Dave]

The guy comes out of the bathroom and shoots him in the back of the head. The lights go out, you're living one second. The next minute, you're dead on the table and your whole family's looking at you.

[Ethan]

You're obviously supposed to assume it leads you to believe that the guy comes out of the bathroom and shoots you.

[Dave]

Him.

[Ethan]

I think that's what everybody would believe, but I don't want to see it that way. I don't see it that way. I think it's just Meadow walks in, the bell rings because Meadow walks in and they have a dinner.

[Dave]

Yeah. Tony's up. Tony's up in the forest, surrounded by trees, overlooking a lake. What do you care, Janice, by this conversation, Believe what you want to believe. He's dead. That's what happened.

[Mike Fuentes]

I can just tell that Ethan didn't watch Game of Thrones by the way that this conversation is going, because that I almost did. Yeah, that. That moment in the Red Wedding. Like, I remember being so thrown back, looking at my girlfriend, being like, we got to watch that shit again.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Ethan]

I watched.

[Gino Fuentes]

I remember. I remember watching the Red Wedding and then thinking to myself, so who's the main character then?

[Mike Fuentes]

Yeah. Where does this go now?

[Gino Fuentes]

Rob is dead.

[Ethan]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I watched. Christ, I watched the first nine episodes of Game of Thrones, and I watched Ned Stark get his head cut off.

[Mike Fuentes]

Listen.

[Ethan]

And it was again, spoiler alert, but statute of limitations is up.

[Mike Fuentes]

Yeah. That was the moment right there. I knew this show was different than other shows.

[Ethan]

Yeah.

[Mike Fuentes]

Because I remember the blade coming down to Ned Stark's neck, and I'm thinking, oh, there's going to be an arrow out of the. Out of the Fourier or whatever.

[Dave]

Right?

[Gino Fuentes]

Or.

[Dave]

Or, yeah.

[Mike Fuentes]

Or there's. Or like, there's a big screech.

[Ethan]

Stop.

[Mike Fuentes]

And somebody comes and stops the whole thing. And. And then we're. And then he somehow escapes, and we're going on to war. And then you hear the shoomp, and Arya looks up. The birds go everywhere. Fade to black. I go, yo.

[Ethan]

Yeah, yo.

[Mike Fuentes]

What just happened?

[Ethan]

I couldn't do the show because the reactions were so intense, and I was so like, oh, my God, they're so happy that they cut this guy's head off. I couldn't do it. I'm like this show's not for me.

[Mike Fuentes]

Well then episode 10 comes next week week. And I think, oh, she just had a. You know, she's dreaming. This is an illusion. Something wrong? No, his head's off. They're holding it up. I'm like, sean, Sean Bean's the only character that matters on this show. Why is he gone?

[Ethan]

If I had watched episode 10, I would have gone all the way in. But I never watched episode 10 of the first season. I never did it.

[Mike Fuentes]

So congrats for, you know, cheating yourself.

[Dave]

I was despondent for at least the next three weeks after the events of the Red Wedding. That music, it haunts me to this day. If you put it on the reigns of cast. Oh my God, that's the name of the episode. As a matter of fact that music is, is haunting for me and, and Robb Stark already got a raw deal in that. In that universe too. A world of Theons and Greyjoys and Lannisters and all these cool names. And your name is Rob. You run out of ideas everybody.

[Mike Fuentes]

This is the same thing I think about Dune, right? Dune. All these great characters. All, all these things. The guy's name.

[Dave]

Paul.

[Mike Fuentes]

Yeah, Paul Atreides.

[Dave]

That what 4:59pm let's get out of here. Like ah, closing time. This we had come Rob. Call him Paul. No one don't care. No good name a cool name.

[Mike Fuentes]

What's the guy in the mail room?

[Dave]

Paul.

[Mike Fuentes]

His name's Paul.

[Dave]

That was the, the executive producer's child's name. That's exact. I think you might be onto something. By the way, as I've said before, and I'll say again now, some names are great for babies, but then they don't translate when you're a grown up and then some of them are vice versa. I thought of a terrible name for a baby girl over the weekend. Brooke. If you're an adult named Brooke, like that's kind of a cool name there says some, some appeal to you. There's something like you've got gravitas. But Brooke, the baby. You ever met a baby named Brooke?

[Ethan]

Yeah, I have a bunch of friends that are like my age named. I would say Brooke is a pretty popular name within my generation. So I would say little bald girl,

[Dave]

like what's her name? Brooke.

[Ethan]

It's not like naming a, a boy like an old man's name like Ira or something. You know what I mean? Like you. A little baby comes out

[Mike Fuentes]

and it's strong.

[Gino Fuentes]

Little baby.

[Mike Fuentes]

Oh, that's a strong candidate.

[Dave]

Proud of everybody for not mentioning any WWE here. This has been a nice conversation and I hope you've enjoyed it. And and now I feel like we must have. We I think we did a pretty good job. But if we missed any rivalries, our fellow football Americans correct us on social media. Drop us a line there and as always, make sure you're subscribing and spreading the good word about about Football America. Wherever you find your podcast and or on YouTube, leave us some comments in the YouTube section. That's always helpful and when you're responding to that. Also, which TV moments were more jarring than the three I mentioned on on Game of Thrones? I know I'm forgetting. There have to be something, right? You watch that eat it dies. How about with the Heat? No, I never have seen scripts. When Edith died on on all in the Family. That was very sad, but I don't think it was as jarring.

[Ethan]

Has anybody watched but holding the family

[Mike Fuentes]

back here, that's in the Wayback Machine for Dave.

[Dave]

Nobody knows all in the fam.

[Mike Fuentes]

I know it.

[Ethan]

All the I know it. I know it. I haven't watched.

[Mike Fuentes]

So yeah.

[Dave]

Oh, end of the first season of Miami Vice. Since I'm talking to people in Miami. Oh, there we go. In Miami Vice, the first captain, J. Edward James Olmis takes off. You know, he takes over and he's the captain or lieutenant or whatever he is over Crockett and Tubs. But there was before Edward James Olmis. He in fact replaces their original captain or lieutenant who gets killed at the end of the first season by the Argentinian, a guy, he's a great assassin guy. The, the, the, the, the Argentinian. Sonny Crockett takes him down. Spoiler alert at the start of I

[Ethan]

think we're good on spoiler alerts for today. I've done enough of them from 25 years ago, I would say.

[Dave]

I think we figured a lot of limitations. We will be back with Wholly Fresh Episode for you next Friday. In the meantime, thanks for following along with the live stream with LeBatard and company on Thursday night and following all the action here on Football America, we'll give you a proper breakdown of all things Draft next Friday. Until then, for everybody here at Football America, Pittsburgh, Penns, Miami, Florida, Louisiana, California, New York City, every corner of Football America and beyond. Thanks so much, my fellow football American seconds. It's been a thin slice of heaven.