Football’s New Evolution: Why Star Centers & TEs Rule the Modern Game

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Football’s New Evolution: Why Star Centers & TEs Rule the Modern Game

Date: March 13, 2026
Setting: Elser Hotel, Downtown Miami
Featuring: Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, Mike Florio, Dave Dameshek, Jeff Schwartz, Paul Cohorst, Gino Fuentes, Mike Fuentes, Brian “Bald Brian” Bishop

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deeply into the shifting landscape of professional football, focusing on the emerging prominence of star centers and tight ends in modern offensive systems. The show also examines NFL free agency, evolving positional value, trends in team building, and later shifts gears for lively Oscars and film talk with Bald Brian. As always, expect sharp wit, irreverent tone, and heartfelt moments among the sports banter.

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Key Segments & Discussion Highlights

1. Pressure, Resilience & Real-Life Heroics (00:00–03:41)

• Opening Reflection: Mike Florio and Dave Dameshek open with a tribute to their friend and fantasy league champ Paul Cohorst (“Dutch Mook”), discussing how true pressure reveals character, both in football and life.

• Memorable Quote:

  "Time's a motherfucking bully. It never lets anybody else win."
  —Mike Florio (01:01)

• Theme: Being under pressure is about consistency, not superhuman effort—applies both on and off the field, a metaphor for sports and survival.

• Cohorst’s Attitude: Facing cancer, Paul maintains his humor, cheekily thumbing his nose at the disease, staying true to his personality.

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2. Greatest Athletes to Wear 55 (03:51–06:00)

• Segment Host: Gino Fuentes gives “Number 55” honors:
  • Standouts mentioned: Junior Seau, Derek Brooks (Gino's pick), Oral Hershiser, Dikembe Mutombo, and others.
• Trivia Note: Fun side story about jersey numbers' evolution, especially in hockey (Gretzky’s 99, Lemieux’s 66—his was Gretzky’s upside down).

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3. NFL Free Agency: Stories & Strategies (06:00–10:09)

• Jeff Schwartz’s Free Agency Story:
  Recounts negotiating with the Giants during his own wedding day (March 8, 2014).
  • “The day of legal tampering for my big deal with the Giants ... is also the day of my wedding.” (06:32–07:31)
  • Mundane details (bagels, lox, ribs in hotel rooms) drive home the surreal and personal side of NFL business.
  • Hierarchy of Free Agency Meals: Top-tier signees get steakhouse dinners; third-wave guys get takeout (ribs in hotel rooms).
• Humor:

  “With the Chiefs I was a third wave free agent. So I was getting the Oklahoma Joe's ... I just ate a rack of ribs by myself in the hotel room.”
  —Jeff Schwartz (08:27–09:41)

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4. Conference Hierarchy: AFC Power Structure (09:41–13:38)

• Main Take: It’s still “KC, Baltimore, Buffalo, and everyone else” until someone proves otherwise.
• Cincinnati Critique: Debate on why the Bengals aren’t more aggressive in free agency, given the urgency of Burrow’s prime. Talk of franchise priorities and possible overcommitment to offense.

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5. Football’s New Evolution: Center & Tight End Ascendancy (13:38–17:48)

• Positional Shift:

  • The dawn of the “center and tight end era.” While wide receivers have trended up, the central role of centers and TEs in elite offenses is rising.
  • Quote:

    “Every great offense ... besides quarterback, has ... a center and a tight end.”
    —Jeff Schwartz (14:11)

• Why the Shift?:

  • Cohesion between QB and center (often paired for years).
  • Tight ends’ mismatch value is irreplaceable.

• Defensive Response:

  • Defenses run more “two-high” safety looks; offenses need flexibility from the center and tight end to adapt.
  • Modern D-lines now rotate numerous elite pass rushers—putting a premium on interior O-line agility.

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6. NFL Family Life & Moving Realities (18:11–20:49)

• Discussion:
  • Schwartz deflates narratives about NFL families’ hardships during relocation, pointing out million-dollar salaries ease transitions. “It's not a topic that's really worth exploring. ... I don't feel sorry for players having to move in free agency.” (19:48–20:49)

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7. Jerk List / Hot Takes (24:09–36:51)

A recurring tongue-in-cheek segment where hosts rule on what’s a “knee jerk” reaction or perfectly logical:

• Thanksgiving Eve Game (24:44–26:40):
  • NFL considering a Wednesday night game—panned as greedy and intrusive on non-sports family time.

    “Leave me alone. I’m trying to have a life. Get me hooked on this stuff already.”
    —Dave Dameshek (24:48)

• Kyler Murray Destinations: Vikings vs. Steelers (26:40–32:54):
  • Debate: Which spot is actually better for a mobile quarterback?
  • Intricacies of team fit, headaches in Minnesota if JJ McCarthy is benched too quickly, and Pittsburgh’s uncertain QB plans.
• Maxx Crosby & Ravens/Raiders Trade Drama (33:41–35:22):
  • Schwartz provides inside perspective: Failed physicals are easy to manufacture and used as excuses. “Legal and allowed, but also grimy.” [35:03–35:22]
• Raiders’ 2026 Outlook (35:22–36:51):
  • “Raiders are going to be much better ... but still the fourth best team in their division.”
    —Jeff Schwartz (36:51)

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8. Oscars & Movie Talk with Bald Brian (37:39–65:07)

• Guest: Brian “Bald Brian” Bishop—filmmaker, film podcast veteran.

• Brian’s Doc “Growth”:

  • Premiering in San Jose, doc about cancer, comedy, and resilience.

• Best Picture Bets & 2026 Film Quality (39:41–42:55):

  • “It’s an excellent year for movies ... stacked with some fine films.”
    —Bald Brian (39:41)
  • Front runners: “One Battle After Another” (strong favorite), “Sinners,” “Hamnet.”

• Worst Best Pictures Ever (43:08–46:17):

  • Discussion of “Crash,” “Dances with Wolves,” “Titanic,” and why "Shakespeare in Love" beating “Saving Private Ryan” is still divisive.

• PTA vs. Tarantino vs. Nolan – The ‘FMK’ Draft (49:47–54:27):

  • Which director’s films could you keep forever, view rarely, or banish?
  • “Losing Dark Knight [Nolan] ... that’s the best superhero movie ever made.”
    —Mike Fuentes (54:17)
  • Bald Brian’s take: Nolan for everyday, Tarantino once every three years, Paul Thomas Anderson not at all—reluctantly, due to some uneven releases.

• Underrated Superhero Films (54:27–55:28):

  • Love for M. Night Shyamalan’s “Unbreakable,” “Split,” and “Glass” as overlooked entries in the genre.

• Tarantino Character Draft (56:03–59:39):

  • Who’d you least want hunting you? Fiercely debated, with Beatrix Kiddo (The Bride) coming out as the consensus “last person you’d want on your trail.”
  • “She killed Bill. What am I missing here?” —Dave Dameshek (59:08)

• Actor Redundancy Game (60:14–63:54):

  • “Actor redundancies”—actors performing oddly specific actions across unrelated films.
    • Example: Robert Duvall plays a shouting lieutenant colonel in both “Apocalypse Now” and “The Great Santini” (61:01).
    • Sonny Landham gets killed shirtless, holding a knife, in both “Predator” and “48 Hours.”

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Pressure & Identity:

  “He hasn't let this situation define him. He's defined how to handle it. He hasn't just survived, he's lived.”
  —Mike Florio (02:56)

• Evolution of Football’s Must-Have Positions:

  “Every great offense ... besides quarterback, has ... a center and a tight end.”
  —Jeff Schwartz (14:11)

• Relocating as an NFL Family:

  “I just want to make that clear. I don't feel sorry for players having to move in free agency.”
  —Jeff Schwartz (20:49)

• On a Wednesday Football Game:

  “Leave me alone. I'm trying to have a life.”
  —Dave Dameshek (24:48)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00-03:41 – Pressure and the meaning of resilience
• 03:51-06:00 – “Greatest to Wear 55” segment
• 06:00-10:09 – Jeff Schwartz’s free agency tales
• 13:50-17:48 – Football evolution: Rise of centers & tight ends
• 24:09-26:40 – Jerk List: Thanksgiving Eve NFL game debate
• 26:40-32:54 – Kyler Murray/quarterback movement
• 33:41-36:51 – Maxx Crosby/Ravens-Raiders trade dispute & Raiders rebuild
• 37:39-65:07 – Oscars and movie nerd-out with Bald Brian

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The Show’s Tone & Style

• Irreverent, quick-witted banter and deep sports contextual knowledge
• Personal stories blend with sharp, original analysis
• Willingness to probe serious topics (illness, pressure, money) and pivot to playful pop culture debates

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Summary

An insightful, fun, and wide-ranging episode. Football insiders dissect how and why center and tight end have become offensive lynchpins in today’s NFL, share the realities of free agency for players and families, and dish out strong opinions on league trends. The latter half transforms into a film buff’s playground—tackling the Oscars, snubs, controversial wins, director filmographies, and the quirky “actor redundancy” game. Throughout, the hosts’ chemistry shines, mixing expert takes with affectionate roasts and uniquely real-life perspectives.

Transcript

[Dave Dameshek]

Coming up, we've got Jeff Schwartz on

[Mike Florio]

free agency and bald Brian Bishop on the Oscars. But first, for all the obsessive professional evaluation of football players, measuring them every

[Paul Cohorst]

way possible, making the right draft pick

[Mike Florio]

is still just a coin flip.

[Paul Cohorst]

And that's because there remains no good

[Mike Florio]

measure for how a player is going

[Paul Cohorst]

to perform under pressure.

[Mike Florio]

But of course, coming through under pressure isn't about rising to some better version of your standard self. Instead, it's just about being able to perform exactly the same with the weight of the world on your shoulders and the clock against you. I agree life is 10% of what happens to you and 90% of how

[Dave Dameshek]

you react to it. But you just don't know what that

[Mike Florio]

reaction's gonna be till you're in it. Well, let it be known to all, my pal, the reigning champ of our fantasy league. Plus handicap golfer, professional grade funny man. Handsome enough to make all the ladies swoon. Comfy in his own skin like no one else. The guy we call the Dutch Mook. Paul Cohorst is good under pressure. And I don't just mean in how he's dealing with the return of his cancer. For once, I'm not saying this just to be cute. There is a difference between just surviving and really living. Let me tell you something. Time's a motherfucking bully. It never lets anybody else win.

[Paul Cohorst]

So I guess all we can do

[Mike Florio]

is what Paul's done live. When I caught him just a few days ago, he said he was headed into surgery and asked for good luck. Said it wasn't a slam dunk. He'd even make it through. We can agree that's a pressure packed moment, right? Heavy. And here's the photo he sent along with it. Thumbs down, sticking his tongue out at cancer. I don't know, I just thought this was great. Defining even. Stiff upper lip fat. Not glib enough for the Dutch Mook. This was silly, Unbothered. Quintessentially who he is. I've always told my kids being cool in a movie does not translate to being cool in real life. Strong, silent type. Might play on the big screen, but. But here at the bar, you just seem like a dullard. And unfortunately for me, just being loud doesn't get it done either. The Mook. Now he's real life cool and not with an on off switch. Funny and disarming and kind to everybody. Well, except for Randy, who he kicks out of the fantasy league anytime he wins. But still charming, warm more. Though he's always struck me as unburdened. Unburdened by the kind of vain crap most of us worry about. But of course, he is bothered. He wants more time. More time so he can show up to our fantasy draft. He just won again, so per league rules, he can kick someone out of the league. He wants to see his Niners and Ducks finally get over the hump. He wants more time playing golf with his spectacular wife, Molly and the fancy new clubs he bought with his fantasy league winnings. His fight is admirable, but it's too easy to turn over the entirety of his life to that fight.

[Dave Dameshek]

Fight that'd give too much credit to

[Mike Florio]

time's cruel henchmen called cancer. What's more striking to me, under the

[Paul Cohorst]

most pressure a person could possibly face,

[Mike Florio]

he stayed the same. He hasn't let this situation define him. He's defined how to handle it. He hasn't just survived, he's lived.

[Dave Dameshek]

So that's why I want to say

[Paul Cohorst]

to you, Mooc, you did it.

[Mike Florio]

You've won. And I got more good news. The Niners are winning Super Bowl 61, and the Ducks are winning the next national championship. So up yours, time, cancer, and those goddamn pristine golf clubs, too. I'll follow my pals lead and give you all a thumbs down, but you deserve much worse.

[Dave Dameshek]

Meantime, I may not be cool, but

[Mike Florio]

I know what cool looks like, thanks to my pal. I don't know how I'll do when I'm under the same sort of pressure he is now, but I now know how a man deals with it. Here's to you, Paul Cohorst. As good a man as I'll ever know.

[Paul Cohorst]

Let's start the.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Yes.

[Mike Florio]

Hi and hello, my fellow football Americans. Welcome to Football America. We're presented, as ever by our Pals over at DraftKings. We've got Jeff Schwartz coming up to talk some NFL free agency. Our pal bald Brian on the Oscars. In the meantime, reminder and thanks subscribe on YouTube to Football America, wherever you find your audio podcasts. Spread the good word. Won't you be a patriotic American real quick? Before we jump into all of that, it is episode number 55, and as ever, it's time for Gino Fuentes to tell us who the greatest number 55 in sports history is. Take it away. Gino Fuentes.

[Gino Fuentes]

We got a loaded number here, Dave. We got a bunch of linebackers. We got Junior Seau, Derek Brooks, Matt Millen. We got Joey Porter, Lance Briggs, Brandon Graham.

[Jeff Schwartz]

If you want to throw a pass

[Gino Fuentes]

rusher in there, we can go over

[Jeff Schwartz]

to baseball if you want.

[Mike Florio]

You're throwing Lance Briggs in. All right.

[Gino Fuentes]

If we go to baseball, Oral Hershiser, Cal rally just hit 60 home runs at the catcher position. We got some. We got the Kimbe Mutombo. White chocolate is in here as well, and I think we got some.

[Mike Florio]

I'm just doing the finger.

[Mike Fuentes]

That's how you don't stop. You ever work in TV before? This is.

[Jeff Schwartz]

That's more in hockey.

[Gino Fuentes]

We're approaching hockey numbers now.

[Mike Fuentes]

Yeah, I was thinking about that the other day. I'm like, once we get to the 60s, we're still on offensive line. 70s offensive line.

[Mike Florio]

Not when I was growing up. I mean, Gretzky. Gretzky was stood out with the 99. And then in the ballsiest move, not enough praise given to it. The next Gretzky was supposed to be Mario Lemieux. So he turned his number upside down.

[Dave Dameshek]

That's sort of like, I'll own it.

[Mike Florio]

I'll own this. Speaking of the Penguins, Larry Murphy, hall of Famer Sergey Gonchar, two of the great power play point guys that we've ever seen in the sport of hockey. Who gets the award, though? Gino, Is it Oral Hershiser, I think Junior Seau, maybe.

[Gino Fuentes]

I'm going to go Derek Brooks out of this list.

[Mike Florio]

Just a preference. Although what Hershiser did with that earned run inning streak is really crazy. It's one of those ones that I think is when people do most unbreakable records, I think people forget about that one. That's gonna. What is it, 30? I don't even remember how many innings. No, I don't think it got that big. Did it? Anyway.

[Dave Dameshek]

All right, let's talk some pro football

[Mike Florio]

free agency with a guy who we haven't kibitz with in a little while, our guy, Jeff Schwartz. All right, let's dive into it with our pal from. Jeff Schwartz is smarter than you. In Fox Sports, it's Jeff Schwartz. How are you?

[Paul Cohorst]

Fell time.

[Mike Florio]

No see, it's been three weeks since football season ended, and that's in the rear view mirror. So we're on the free agency. First question for you, Jeff Schwartz, is how did you eat during free agency when you were out there in the market? Did you?

[Jeff Schwartz]

Okay, so I don't think I've told the story here, but I've certainly told it on my podcast. The day of legal tampering for my big deal with the Giants, which March 8, 2014. That was the day the window opened up. I signed two days later. March 8, 2014, is also the day of my wedding. So legal Tampering opened up the same day as my wedding did and so we were having an anniversary. You're actually getting married married that day? Yes. So the morning of, of the wedding we had an out of town brunch at my parents house. So we had white fish, smoked salmon, like the whole, the whole Jewish deal, right? Like bagels, lox, white fish, like all the goodies. And my agent Derek Gilmore fielded calls at 9am Pacific. That's when the legal tam repair opened up at like 10am we had a family meeting in the living room. Me, my brother, my dad Derek and my uncle. My wife was with her bridesmaids over the hotel.

[Dave Dameshek]

She couldn't attend because you can't see.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Correct, correct. And so yeah, that's when we sort of figured out let's go to the Giants that morning. So I good day. The day of my, of my free agency and then I flew to New York a couple days later. Ended up we went to Smith and Wollensky's. It was good.

[Mike Florio]

Wow. So. So you did some whitefish mear while you talk?

[Jeff Schwartz]

No, no. Actual whitefish. No, like the white fish. Like the actual like fish. You just crumble it up and put it on your bagel. So good. It's a, it's not an all the time thing. I'm bagel and lox guy but, but like big old white fish for a change up every now and then. Delicious.

[Mike Florio]

Well, handsome Hank Hodgson had a savvy observation years ago and I remember him telling you about it. If you're going to be a free agent, make sure you go all over Football America and eat on the dime of as many pro football teams that are courting you as possible and then make your decision. Right. It sounds like you didn't do that

[Jeff Schwartz]

well in this situation. I did not. But the previous year I went to three different visits. Kansas City, we got, we got some Joe's. They gave me a rack of ribs at Joe's. That was nice but I wasn't like good enough to go to the nice meals. I remember went to Minnesota like catered in lunch, you know, like with the Giants I was like the four year deal, it was a big deal, like I was like making money. So they took me to Smith and Wollensky. It's like me and then J.D. walton and for who else was there on that visit. But it depends what level of free agent. With the Chiefs I was a third wave free agent. So I was getting the Oklahoma Joe's and bring it back to the hotel room.

[Dave Dameshek]

You don't Get.

[Mike Florio]

You don't get the Michelin restaurants you get.

[Jeff Schwartz]

No.

[Dave Dameshek]

Well, you eat. This guy's going to eat a lot.

[Mike Florio]

Let's take them to an all you can eat. I think that's our best.

[Jeff Schwartz]

It's just, it's just level of like of free agent. You are like the guys that signed this week, like right away they're going to steakhouse and they show up, right? Second wave guys. Like, they're probably getting like a luncheon. Like I had the Venture, but I went to Kansas City. It's like a third wave guy. I got a rack of. A rack of ribs. I still have the picture like in the, you know, it's in like the, in the parchment paper from Joe's. Those Oklahoma Joe's back then. It was delicious. I just ate a rack of ribs by myself of the hotel room.

[Mike Florio]

Well, send it over so your fellow football Americans can see what you're talking about. In the meantime, you mentioned Kansas City. And let's cut to the chase now, several days into this thing as we sit here and is it still for all the noise about what this team and that is doing in the AFC and even though only Baltimore made, I mean only the Bills made the playoffs a year ago, is it still KC Baltimore and Buffalo and everybody else in the afc?

[Jeff Schwartz]

I'm a big fan of sort of, you know, until proven otherwise. Dave. Right. Like, until proven otherwise, that feels like the group. Now, of course New England fans will be upset they're not included in this. Right. They just made a Super Bowl. But I think we all know their win total, I think is nine and a half. Like people look at them and what happened last year and harder schedule and again, I think the super bowl exposed like good core. Ish. But they need better players overall, right, to get to where they want to be. You know, people want to throw Chargers in there. And the Broncos are sort of these teams that feel like they're getting close, but they're sort of not there yet. Right. The Chiefs we know, are there, but to be fair, really, Baltimore and Buffalo haven't been a Super Bowl, Right. Like, are they included? Is Cincinnati included in this? Right. We know. When. I don't know.

[Dave Dameshek]

I mean, at the time of this

[Mike Florio]

recording, what Cincinnati done, I thought the crazy, easiest one of all. I mean, everybody can sing songs about Mike Evans. Makes all the sense in the world. I kind of like, even if it is an overpay what Buffalo's doing, and at least they recognize the moment that they're in, in time, they gotta make something happen here. But the Jayvon Hargrave is, is released. Why aren't the bungles all over that like you?

[Dave Dameshek]

You need to figure out defense.

[Mike Florio]

Why. Why don't you hear anything about. About that? That to me is that they've just completely. Or is it just that Joe Burrow in demanding that you know as much as as he can from the player level that he needs his pass catchers and he has them. Did that just corrupt the ability to build a full roster potentially.

[Jeff Schwartz]

I don't know what their situation is with Hargrave. You would think they just go after everyone, right? You think they just would do that and maybe they just don't feel comfortable taking shots at everyone. It's not what the Bengals have always done. You know, let's just be average on defense with, with their offense. Absol. But you would argue that they have this window with Joe Burrow. They might as well attack it now. Right. And get as many assets as you can to the party. And they're in the draft too at 10 where they're probably never. They're not assured to get any of those pass rushers. Right. The top three guys are probably gone before 10 now that you're going to get someone to improve their defense. But it's not going to be one of those pass rushers. So I mean you, you would think a lot of teams would try to go after these guys, but there's reasons why, right? Contractually, schematically, you know, maybe the personalities don't fit and maybe they're injured. You know, the Crosby thing. Right. Like our knee. Knee is worse than we think. Which I think that's still a little bit of a farce.

[Mike Florio]

I think we're getting to that. We get to the list.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Yeah. So there's many reasons why these teams not don't go after that. But I'm with you. Sometimes I wonder like wait, you need a pass rusher, here's a pass rusher. You know, go get them.

[Mike Florio]

I mean anybody, I mean chase anybody. If you're the Cincinnati Bengals, you're making yourself a non factor. Or like I say, maybe Joe Burrow in his desire to keep the greatest offense or to keep himself comfy with a high end offense really did cost his. Cost himself a chance at, at a Super bowl run here. Anyway, what is. Before we get to this jerk list, you know, the league keeps updating in what you need. What's the next chapter in pro football evolution? It was 25 years ago or more. Run the ball. And always and forever defense wins championships and Then somewhere around the turn of the millennium, QB became everything. And then running backs don't matter but now they do matter again. And edge rush is essential and so too is a great left tackle. And now interior defensive lineman who can create pressure is a must have if you want to be a contender. Are any of those things no longer true? Truly essential. And and or what is the next evolution of must have?

[Jeff Schwartz]

Well, I think we're currently in one of them which is the wide receiver. Right. It feels like everyone's, you know these wide receivers are so valuable to these teams. It wasn't. I remember that being the case Dave, 15 years ago. Like you felt you had like these guys.

[Mike Florio]

You're exactly right. Until Cooper, until Cooper cup and Tyree Kill. No high end number one hall of Fame bound wide receiver was essential for any super bowl contender this millennium.

[Jeff Schwartz]

It feels like wide receiver is that. But again to be fair, like you know the, the Patriots and Chiefs besides the first one with Hill, like they haven't had the best wide receivers when they've won Super Bowls. But I, I think it's maybe we're three years late to this take but every great offense has besides quarterback has two things, okay. A center and a tight end. A center or a tight end. And even if you look back to like the best quarterbacks, they typically have had the same center most of their career. Like they had the one guy who just is there. We saw what the Raiders just did, right. They went and got Linder bomb to pair with Mendoza. Even the Bears, right. Dolman retires. We need a veteran. Bradbury boom, done. Like it feels like that position is getting a little more love now and then of course with the evolution of the tight end teams have already in that direction. But does feel like you can't be a good offense unless you have good tight end. Just can't happen. The mismatch is so important there for that position. So center and tight end feel like at least positionally the two positions that teams might be focusing a little bit more. I think schematically it's just more of like that, you know, how do we defeat the too high through the offense. Right? Because too high defense is now like the whole craze. And of course everyone's going to watch Seattle and try to be Seattle. Right? We're going to try to be a, a defense that just interchangeable parts. We can we move and I thought it was a really, really fascinating clip. Kurt Cousin spoke after the super bowl about Seattle and they're doing like basically for a long Time defense is rotated at the snap, at the snap, the safety's moved, right? And Cousins, like, I don't really do that. Like they wait till like you throw the ball to move. And so the evolution of maybe defensively just like let's, let's move a little bit later. Sort of copying Seattle, but I think personnel wise it's center and tight end.

[Mike Florio]

Boy, that's so interesting. And I hate to invoke chess match, but it really does sound like center when it was all about the tackles offensively and then into like even Tom Brady can't deal with it. And now it feels like. So the interior offensive linemen have gained importance as a result of all that. Fascinating.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Well, interior offensive linemen get importance because these pass rushers are so good now. I mean, I talk about this all the time, Dave. When I was coming up and when I played early in my career, you know, you had one defensive end typically you had like the pass rush end and you had like the run stopping end, right? The run stopping and played over the right tackle typically. And the pass rusher was over left tackle. And you might have had like one interior defense lineman that could rush the passer. But they were typically bigger guys, right? Like they were just, you know, like a Kevin Williams type, right. Like a good pass rusher, but just a bigger guy. Like he probably would be a different player in today's era. And then all of a sudden like 2013, 2014, it just sort of flipped where like interior guys just got much better yet to pass rushers now.

[Dave Dameshek]

Now you have Aaron and Fletcher Cox

[Jeff Schwartz]

and all those guys and even like a Cam Jordan, like I mean all these guys like these. And now you have it where like you have eight pass pass rushers. And so these offensive linemen just got to be better at protecting the pass and the interior pressure. You mentioned Donald and these guys. So now like guard pass protection, so much more important. When I came up and it's not that long ago, those guards were like big old mauling run blocking guys. I mean, you remember, you know, your Pittsburgh series offensive lineman, like those guys were just like those big strong mauling types. Obviously fan can play in any, in any era, but some of those guys now, like they don't. They couldn't move. They couldn't move now, right? You can't, you can't play that position anymore in the same way you used to play it back then. So, you know, the game just evolves, you know, year after year.

[Mike Florio]

I love the idea to go back nine minutes or Whatever. I love the idea who you. It's very clear from anybody who follows Jeff Schwartz on social media that his wife is definitely running everything that happens out of their Manson in Charlotte, North Carolina. I love the idea that she was left out of where she's going to live next conversation.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Why? What do you mean?

[Dave Dameshek]

I mean she had no opinion on where you go as a free agent. Well, sorry, can't. See on wedding day.

[Mike Florio]

I'll let you know how it all

[Dave Dameshek]

turns out when I see up there

[Mike Florio]

in front of the, in front of the rabbi.

[Dave Dameshek]

I chose the Giants, so.

[Mike Florio]

And I do.

[Jeff Schwartz]

So she tells people that I was broken jobless on our wedding day.

[Dave Dameshek]

She saved you.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Now, to be fair, I didn't have my big, big contract until that day. The second contract, the mythical second contract. I made money, but it was going to be a lifetime of money until I got paid on that day. I think she had no idea. Like it was the Giants and the Rams essentially. And the rams were in St. Louis then. I think it's a lot easier to sell the Giants than the Rams. Hey, hon, listen, man, after this wedding, we're going to St. Louis, okay. Versus hey, after the wedding I was

[Dave Dameshek]

like, L. A, that would be great.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Oh no, St. Louis. And it was like. And so it was like, no, the Giants are much easier sell. Obviously we had a great time in New York. She was pregnant too. So like a lot of moving parts all at once. I will say this though.

[Mike Florio]

She was pregnant but you weren't even married yet. How's that possible?

[Jeff Schwartz]

It's impossible, actually. Both this point to my kids one day it's gonna be a fun discussion.

[Mike Florio]

The swing by my place afterwards.

[Jeff Schwartz]

I see this. Some of my family's different. I see this thing where like NFL, former NFL players kind of this time of year, like, guys think about how hard this is on the families. They have to move and they have to. I'm like, can we. Like, can we not. Like, I, we make a lot of money.

[Mike Florio]

It's easier when it's $15 million helping you in the movie.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Yeah, like I, I know. Getting a new school. I've done it. I've done all that now. My kids were younger, but like I've done it. I've done the finding do daycare and finding new friends and. But like, I just think it's not a topic that's really like, is the average person like, man, that. That poor $7 million a year player, his family has to move, right? Like, yes, there are hardships with all those things. It's not easy to like, but, like, I just feel like it's not a topic, especially today, like that's worth really exploring. I hate how players do that.

[Dave Dameshek]

I hate to say from you people do not.

[Mike Florio]

The average person doesn't want to hear how hard it is for the multimillionaire.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Like, I just, I see this all the time. Like, man, I'm like, yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes. It's not easy to move and find new friends and find new doctors and all this stuff. But right now, like in today, we're talking about it today, with everything that's happening, like in our country, that's we're doing today. I just want to make that clear. I don't feel sorry for players having to move in free agency.

[Paul Cohorst]

Hey there, my fellow football Americans. Let me tell you one thing I've

[Mike Florio]

done really well in my life is make babies.

[Paul Cohorst]

Four of them, in fact. And when each of them was born, everything changed for me all over again. There's this overwhelming feeling you get. It's not just love, it's this need to protect them. Suddenly, every decision you make is about them and their future. The last thing a person wants is to worry about how your family's going to pay the bills. If something were to happen to you, would they be financially prepared? Well, with life insurance from Ethos, your family is protected. Ethos is an online platform that makes getting life insurance fast and easy. To protect your family's future in minutes, not months, get a quote in as little as 10 minutes with no medical exam required. You just answer a few health questions. There's no complicated process. It's 100% online, and some policies are as low as $2 a day billed monthly. If you're still unsure, let me tell you. There are now 3 million families who've completed their applications and trusted Ethos to help find the right coverage for them. And as of March last year, Business Insider named Ethos the number one no medical exam instant life insurance provider. So protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Now, by going to ethos.comfba in as little as 10 minutes, you can get your free quote and up to $3,000,000 in coverage at ethos.com fba that's e t h o s.com fba ethos.com fba application times and rates may vary. Hey there, my fellow football American. Quick question for you. Do you like to eat food? You do?

[Mike Florio]

I knew it.

[Paul Cohorst]

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[Mike Florio]

Clear. Non. Jerk. Jeff Schwartz. Dave Damoshek. Obviously society's greatest empath. We do the jerk list here. And for anybody who is not up to speed on it, the Fuentes boys are going to make a statement. And Jeff and I will evaluate whether it's a knee jerk reaction given new information, or whether or not it's perfectly logical. Take it away. I don't know who's up first here? Mike Fuentes. Gino Fuentes. How say. You.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Caught me off guard though.

[Dave Dameshek]

Take that, Jerks.

[Gino Fuentes]

The NFL is considering creating a Thanksgiving eve game and it might be too much.

[Mike Florio]

Jeff Schwartz, how say you?

[Jeff Schwartz]

So the jerk will be the NFL

[Mike Florio]

here in this situation if they create a Wednesday night thing.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Yeah, I mean, they're, they're, they're probably jerks for that. Yeah, we'd watch it. I'd watch it. But like Wednesday night we typically get a Christmas tree, we go to dinner. Like we sort of have a family night. And I don't feel there's. I mean, it might be like a random, you know, basketball game or some lower conference football game on. Like I'm, I might tune into it. But like that's sort of like a non sports night. Like you just like accept, like we're going to watch sports for the next five days in a row for hours on end. Look, I'm going to watch. I'll watch it, Dave. Why? I won't watch it. I'll bet on it. I'm sure. All that stuff. But it feels like they're a jerk for doing that, right? It's.

[Mike Fuentes]

I.

[Mike Florio]

Right.

[Dave Dameshek]

It's the, it's the, it's the crack deal. Like, get out of here, man.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Leave me alone.

[Dave Dameshek]

I'm trying to have a life. Get me hooked on this stuff already.

[Mike Florio]

Already I'm hooked on this. And I don't like Wednesday night because I, you know, it already belongs to Pittsburgh Penguins fans. The Penguins always play a home game that night. But beyond that, it's start of Shecker season. It is the greatest stretch on the calendar every single year. And as I always say, Thanksgiving is the best holiday because it's merely the start of the holiday season. It's sort of like knowing you have a three day weekend with Monday off and Thursday night, the Thursday night before is the best day of that window because it's all still in front of you. That's like Wednesday Eve. When that hits, you're on easy street until New Year's Day at least. You know, booze and parties and you may show up to work, you may not. Food, food and more food. We don't need football on top of it. Let's not gild the lily here.

[Mike Fuentes]

Next up, if you're a Kyler Murray, the Viking situation is better than Pittsburgh's.

[Mike Florio]

Explain this one to me, Jeff Schwartz. I don't get it.

[Dave Dameshek]

Why is it just assumed what, you need that explained? You need that explained?

[Mike Fuentes]

A better situation. You need that part explained than Pittsburgh?

[Jeff Schwartz]

Come on.

[Dave Dameshek]

Yeah, I do need it.

[Mike Florio]

Come on. Come on, David.

[Mike Fuentes]

Ridiculous.

[Mike Florio]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold on.

[Mike Fuentes]

Dave, this is for you.

[Mike Florio]

No, no, no.

[Dave Dameshek]

You don't get the, you know, you know, the Steelers made the play.

[Mike Florio]

They won their division. Yeah.

[Mike Fuentes]

Justin. Justin Jefferson. Justin Jefferson's in Minnesota?

[Mike Florio]

I'm sorry.

[Mike Fuentes]

That's better.

[Dave Dameshek]

They have a good, they have a good player.

[Jeff Schwartz]

I think it's more about, I think it's more about just Kevin o' Connell being a really good offensive coach and like getting the opportunity to work with him, who's done wonders for everyone except Trisha McCarthy it appears. Unless you're McCarthy being like the meme that everyone uses. I saw one for Team Mexico last night for WBC. Like it's so messed up digital McCarthy is like this meme now and you went anytime plays bad. They put his face on their jersey in the locker room, that whole situation.

[Dave Dameshek]

But I think it's a convenient target.

[Mike Florio]

By the way, he's played like two

[Jeff Schwartz]

and a half quarters. He's played like six. I think he started six games. Yeah, well, according to to NFL media, all you need is six games over four years and you become the trendiest quarterback to ever sign a contract for. For the Miami Dolphins. Somehow you know, he's the Malik Willis. Going to be great. You know, everyone just knows it. It's going to be great. Long story, six games.

[Mike Florio]

But I also get that you have to take some swings, especially when you fall into desperate times. I think at least the Dolphins are trying and to me the Steelers aren't trying because to get in your way before you fully dig in here on it. It's the reason that Kyler Murray is not in play for Pittsburgh is because I think that everybody involved already knows Rogers and the Steelers had a commitment weeks if not months ago. How say you.

[Jeff Schwartz]

I didn't even know Kyler Murray and the Steelers was a thing, people.

[Dave Dameshek]

It's not a thing because.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Oh, you want.

[Dave Dameshek]

Rogers is there.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Oh, you want to make it.

[Mike Fuentes]

Make it a thing.

[Mike Florio]

Oh, exactly.

[Dave Dameshek]

I wish it were a thing.

[Jeff Schwartz]

He's better than the options you have now. But I think that the assumption is that because of Kevin OConnell success in that offense that Murray would prefer to play there than in Pittsburgh.

[Mike Florio]

I mean, I don't know why that would be. I mean the, the koc's offense to my eye. And I'll defer to you, to my. You're the one who does the spoon X and O breakdowns, not me. But it sure looks to me like what KOC optimally would have at QB is a distributor. Stand in the pocket, get the ball quick, you know, some play action. But. But intermediate throws, short throws, don't do anything too dynamic. That's not what we're looking to do versus Mike McCarthy optimally, that offense. And you have to go way back to check it out. But when he had Aaron Rodgers in his prime, Rogers was lethal on a level that few, if any guys have ever been.

[Jeff Schwartz]

I totally forgot McCarthy's there.

[Mike Fuentes]

Yeah, that makes it. That makes it worse. Like I can have Justin Jefferson and O' Connell or I can have McCarthy and Rico Dowdle. I do like him too.

[Jeff Schwartz]

But God like, but they have made,

[Dave Dameshek]

they have Metcalf and Pittman.

[Mike Florio]

Now that's not a, that's not a bum.

[Jeff Schwartz]

I, I, I think the sort of

[Mike Florio]

the, the Michael Pittman is an afterthought.

[Mike Fuentes]

No, no. I like, I like Michael Pittman and I grave defending Michael Pittman because everybody said he was washed and I'm like, it's not his fault. He had Anthony Richardson and guys like that. You know, in, in the, any year

[Gino Fuentes]

that he hasn't had Anthony Richardson, he's been great.

[Mike Fuentes]

Yeah, he's been like 100 catch guy. Whenever he didn't have Anthony Richardson he

[Mike Florio]

was cursed with another thing. But by the way, but, but, but shorts.

[Dave Dameshek]

Correct me if I'm wrong when I

[Mike Florio]

watch Rogers in his prime and I was swooning a decade plus ago watching Aaron Rodgers, man, he would the, the, I mean fundamental to that packers offense was those boot rollouts and he would kill people on the edge like that. He would like if you, if you gave him a split second of space, he would kill you with his legs.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Mike Florio]

Or when he was out on the edge because defenders were consumed with not letting him run, he would kill you throwing the ball,

[Dave Dameshek]

rolling out. Yeah, he can't do that anymore. Kyler Murray can do that. What am I missing here?

[Jeff Schwartz]

Well, you, you would, that would not be part of, of McCarthy offense now. Right. And some of those design rollouts and some of that was Rogers doing his own thing. I mean very famously that throw he made in Dallas in the playoff game where he rolled to his left like that was just him doing that he told. I mean not him doing that. It was a called play, but that was a practice play where left tackle gets beat inside and you pin him inside, you roll out, you make that play. I just think McCarthy's offense has a stigma of not being as good as the time he was with Green Bay. Even though in Dallas it was fine. I mean when Dak was healthy they were really good on offense. So I think that's probably why you look at the Minnesota. But does Minnesota want, want Kyler Murray if they're not going to sign him?

[Dave Dameshek]

Well, here's the other thing.

[Mike Florio]

Isn't KYLER MURRAY Whether Koc might have egg on his face right now with JJ McCarthy and maybe like Carmen Vitale said last week on Football America, the dismissal of the GM indicates that they are as a franchise embarrassed by and want to move away from JJ McCarthy.

[Dave Dameshek]

But Kate, but Koc also had a

[Mike Florio]

hand and liked JJ. Isn't he incented to see that work? And if Kyler has a bad game or two with Minnesota, isn't he going to be incented Koc to try and jam JJ McCarthy in there and make him a factor?

[Jeff Schwartz]

Isn't there some competition? That's why this is why I just don't think he's going to Minnesota. Like are you just done with McCarthy and now remember they haven't hired new general manager yet. They have. They have promoted someone from within. They're going to hire someone after the draft. But like I'm just sure he's not going to play Kyler Murray. That's the thing is like I mean not Colin Murray. McCarthy's just giving up on McCarthy right now. Six games, that's all he started. Now maybe he's that bad. I don't think he's that that bad to just never say never again. If Kyler Murray's brought in, he's brought it to start, right? So like that's why I think for Minnesota it doesn't make sense for me where Pittsburgh, he'd just be the starter immediately.

[Mike Florio]

Well then you know what the math is for me on that. Like I said, I suspect that everybody involved knows Rogers is going to Pittsburgh and that's why they are self imposing even though I think it's a foolish thing.

[Mike Fuentes]

But question, but question why. Why not quit on JJ McCarthy like we've seen other guys.

[Dave Dameshek]

Well, they do.

[Mike Florio]

If they do.

[Mike Fuentes]

He's already resurrected one quarterback. Why not do it for Kyler Murray McCarthy to pitch? That's fine.

[Mike Florio]

That would be fine with me. I know people wouldn't like it in

[Dave Dameshek]

Pittsburgh, but I'd be cool with it

[Mike Florio]

because you got to keep taking swings with McCarthy.

[Mike Fuentes]

At least you have hope over Rogers because you know what Rogers is like you say all the time, McCarthy, there's still question marks and maybe they work

[Dave Dameshek]

out, you know, you're not going to the Super bowl. He just won 10 games. They're not going to the super bowl

[Mike Florio]

with a 43 year old man. All right, get to the max Crosby one because I want to make sure we get that in.

[Gino Fuentes]

Yep, here it comes. What the Ravens did to the Raiders was unprofessional, unacceptable and just, just mean.

[Mike Fuentes]

You sounded like the lawyer from Seinfeld there. You know, that guy is like this is ludicrous. It's uncanny. It's, you know, like that's what you sounded like right there. I like that.

[Mike Florio]

Take it away, Jeff Schwartz.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Okay, here's my thoughts on this. What the Ravens did is allowed. They don't have to follow through on the trade. It wasn't official trade yet. People I think believe the Ravens like fake injury report. I mean the physical, they didn't fake it. You can find someone to fail a physical. Like that's not a hard thing to do. It's a player. You can go in and tell the doctor like I don't feel good or whatever. I just. And they fail you physical. Like it's not that simple. But if you have an injury, you're like, ah, my ankle just doesn't like feel right. I don't have that spring back in it yet that they're like, okay, fail. Like they can fail you for really anything. So like that's not. They didn't fake the, they didn't fake the, they didn't fake the, the failed physical. I know that they said the third party read the thing, but again, if you really want a player, you still sign a player who has a medical issue. Like you can do that. So what they did is, is legal and allowed. However, it sounds like they just got cold feet and didn't want Max Crosby and thought that Trey Henderson plus the two draft picks were better. Which I agree with. I agree with that. If you gave me a choice, Max Crosby and lose my two first round picks, Archer, Henderson, keep my two first round picks. I choose option B. We don't choose option B. So both are true. Like they did what they're allowed to do, but also grimy and probably just backed out and use the knee as an excuse.

[Mike Florio]

Last thing then, is it too soon in that division? And I know I already have the answer because of the competition, but are the raiders good in 2026? Because it does feel like they, they've sort of loaded up.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Yeah, they're going to be much better. So I saw, you know, I've seen the report. They want a veteran quarterback to like play over Mendoza.

[Mike Florio]

I why so dumb for two weeks?

[Jeff Schwartz]

Why like just let Mendoza be the starter immediately. You improve your offensive line, you can draft. So they don't have the 14th pick anymore. Right. That was the thought was that they would draft a guard at 14. Right. So they don't have that anymore. But think about all the additions they made and then, oh, Max Crosby's back. Like it's a good, good offseason for the Raiders.

[Mike Florio]

They already have the skill, the high end skill position, tight end and running back like we talked about 15 minutes ago.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Yes. So I think the Raiders are going to be much better now. Obviously King Kubiak's got to be a good head coach. I mean offensively we know that he can produce an offense. So I the Raiders, look they're going to be everyone's favorite over team this year, I would imagine. Like I saw someone tweet out already. I think it was Kyle Brandt. Like there's one team picking the top five. It's going to be a playoff team. My guess is it's the right picking the Raiders. I don't like I don't that's all these picking the Titans but like so or maybe it's a Giants at five. I don't know but like people are going to be on the Raiders, right? They're going to be on the Raiders this year to be very trendy to bet they're over and better make the playoffs. Still tough division. They're still the fourth best team in their division. Just letting everyone know, fourth best team in the division.

[Mike Florio]

Awesome stuff. Jeff Shorts. Go eat some white fish. You can send me the bill. You were so good here. I appreciate it and we'll talk to you very soon. Meantime, make sure you're keeping up with all things pro football based. Jeff Schwartz is smarter than you. Plus all the great work on Fox Sports. With the draft approaching, Jeff Schwartz is a must follow.

[Dave Dameshek]

Great stuff there, pally.

[Mike Florio]

And now we jump neatly from pro football free agency talk into movie talk. They say it's the super bowl for movie fans. I think that's a weird thing to keep saying all the time, but either way, here to help break it down, the best in the business at talking about movies from the Baldiwood sub stack. He's now a filmmaker himself. Growth is the name of the picture.

[Dave Dameshek]

It's our old pal Bald Brian Bishop. How are you pally?

[Brian Bishop]

How are you, Dave? Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it as always. Good to see your face. And may I just say, big fan.

[Mike Florio]

Ah, that's so sweet. Always nice of you to point that out. I appreciate it and big fan of you of course. And so muzzle tov on the on the film. Early reviews strong for Growth. Tell us about the movie a little bit.

[Brian Bishop]

I'm shocked. First of all, I'm poorly lit because I'm in a hotel room in San Jose where Growth is premiering on Sunday at the Santa Quest Film Festival here for the festival. And yeah, it's, it's, it's getting some great notices as people say. Shocked. But please, it's a documentary about my life. No, it's not. It's a documentary about. It's a Hilarious documentary about cancer about like young adult cancer and the importance of Keep talking.

[Mike Florio]

I'm all ready to laugh.

[Brian Bishop]

Yeah. Don't run about humor and laughter and how important it is to laugh at the tragic situations. We have lots of comics and comedians and survivors who are comedians talking about the importance of joking and laughing and how that gets you through a tragic situation.

[Mike Florio]

Well, sounds great. And then you hear Bald Brian is the person making this movie. And then you know it's going to be funny. If you're aware of his work over the many years that he did together. Adam Carolla show all the rest of it. And like I say, the Baldiwood substack is great. Now, let's talk about two things. Primarily, I want to get to real quick here. First of all, matter at hand, if there are people who want to wager on it, what is the best play for best picture this year? And by the way, before you jump on that, do you agree with me that I know everybody has to be cynical about everything, But I think 2026 is the best year for movies in at least a decade, off the top of my head, at least. How say you.

[Brian Bishop]

Well, meet you halfway and say that it's an excellent year for movies. There are some really good ones this year stacked with some fine films. I thought last year 2025 was an Alzheimer. I thought last year was one of the. One of the best of my lifetime. And we're lucky to have so many good movies this year was.

[Mike Florio]

Wait, what one last year? I can't remember.

[Brian Bishop]

My favorite movies were Deadpool and Wolverine was. Was awesome. My old ass was fantastic. The Civil War was amazing. And then the fourth one was. Oh, better man, the Robbie Williams monkey movie. These are all five star bangers. I love them. In addition to whatever. What won last year? It's always the hardest question, right?

[Mike Fuentes]

Anora was the best picture winner.

[Brian Bishop]

Anora, the movie about Nora was very good.

[Mike Florio]

Very good. I know, but. But come on. I mean, one battle after another is going to be. I keep telling people this, it's going to be a slow burn. People might like it now, but it is going to be the Big Lebowski type effect or Boogie Nights type effect, which is the more you watch it and the more you absorb it. And it's Journey Over Destination, one of those kind of movies. The more you absorb that drink it in, not wait, waiting to see how it ends. And the pleasure is just the ride to get there.

[Brian Bishop]

One battle after Once Upon a Time in Hollywood is a comp where it's more about that. That whole vibe going somewhere.

[Mike Florio]

But then Sinners is a gem. Anyway,

[Brian Bishop]

I agree with you. I will. I will quibble and say that Boogie Nights is. Was an instant classic. Whereas I do agree with you about the big Lebowski effect, which is even I. When I saw one doll, I was like, that's okay. And then the more I sort of thought about it, you know, really, really dug its.

[Mike Florio]

That's right. I forgot that that is what you react. You initially saw it, and I saw you on social media saying, like, yeah, good.

[Dave Dameshek]

Not that good.

[Brian Bishop]

But then, honestly, it sinks his claws into you. Actually, you know what? The website I like to use the best, not for gambling, but for actually true percentages is Gold Derby. Gold Derby does sort of proprietary. Like, they make their own percentage based on awards that the films have won previously, blah, blah, blah. And they give. Hold on. Right now, it's reasonably close, but one battle after another is likely to win. They give one battle after another a 77% chance to win.

[Mike Florio]

Sinners.

[Brian Bishop]

Sinners with an 18% chance to win.

[Mike Florio]

Begonia.

[Dave Dameshek]

Hamnet.

[Mike Florio]

People are really into hamnets.

[Brian Bishop]

Faded quite a bit. That's funny because in years past, Hymn. That is that kind of Oscar movie that would have just swept. It would have. I mean, it's a Shakespearean epic with, you know, tragic events and then a big emotion. And that would have. That would have dominated the Oscars many years ago. We're on. I think we're in a point now where the Oscars is more sinners and one battle after another for better. I think. I think those are more accessible movies and kind of. Kind of better.

[Mike Florio]

I like to, you know, I. I mentioned the cynics of the world, and I guess this is pretty cynical for me to do this, but worst best picture ever, your nominees are.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Oh, wow.

[Brian Bishop]

We did that topic on the film.

[Mike Florio]

Dances with Wolves.

[Jeff Schwartz]

No.

[Mike Florio]

Titanic?

[Jeff Schwartz]

No.

[Mike Florio]

Shakespeare in Love. No. Crash.

[Dave Dameshek]

I wouldn't even say no. You don't even let me do the list.

[Mike Florio]

What.

[Dave Dameshek]

What if somebody stood on the side when.

[Mike Florio]

When, you know, I'm trying to think of people who are still alive.

[Dave Dameshek]

George Clooney is up there. Like, your nominees are. What if somebody else. I was going, no, no, that'll be me.

[Brian Bishop]

I'm with you on a crash.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Those are.

[Brian Bishop]

Those are the three or fine films. I would say the English Patient is up there in terms of like, that's a hard movie to get through. And that's old school Oscar movie where you're like, okay, go.

[Dave Dameshek]

Watch out, Africa.

[Mike Florio]

Yeah.

[Brian Bishop]

And those 80s movies like Gandhi not of Africa. Yeah, they're. They're slogs. You know what I mean? I'm sure there's many, you know, a few classic ones in there that don't deserve it that I haven't seen. But in terms of the ones of my lifetime, I remember when, when, when. What was the one with Johnny Depp? It didn't get Neverland playing Neverland or some nonsense. It didn't win. But that is a, that is a mid movie as the kids sleepy.

[Mike Florio]

Yes, I agree with you. I guess one way to assess it is Shakespeare in Love is cute in my opinion. It's fine. I don't. I think people overstate how bad it is. The problem people have with it is, is that it beat out Saving Private Ryan. Yes, of course, I might lean towards if I want to be real pretentious if I'm in the mood. I think maybe Thin Red Line makes some more no statements about Private Ride.

[Dave Dameshek]

Don't say no to everything can be. No, no, no.

[Mike Florio]

Now listen, Dances with Wolves, I mean you talk about like the, the white man hero, the white man savior stuff over, over Goodfellas.

[Brian Bishop]

Yeah.

[Dave Dameshek]

If you want to get offended by him.

[Mike Florio]

If you want to get up on Mount Pius, you can get offended by Kevin Costner with wolves. I mean it really is so the white hero. Go back and list. But go back and listen to the language. The script is, is, is is plotting and a lot of the language that he uses as a.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Sure.

[Dave Dameshek]

But it'd be good. Fellas, what are we talking about?

[Brian Bishop]

Yeah, that's an Alzheimer. Of course, not a bad movie, Dance with Walls, but not the incongruity between the winner and the runner up, as it were. I'm going to give you a chance to say no, no, no. Because my hot take and this, this may end the show. This may just be the last thing that people ever hear because careful with yourself then I prefer Shakespeare in Love over saving Brian Ryan.

[Mike Florio]

All right, that's fine.

[Mike Fuentes]

It was nice talking to you. All right. Yeah, that's going to be. Do it for you.

[Brian Bishop]

That's everyone's reaction.

[Mike Florio]

Same part.

[Brian Bishop]

Ryan, a fine film with outstanding moments. I mean, of course the opening battle scene and the closing battle scene there are outstanding. Some of the best things ever committed to movies. In between is about 90 minutes of a kind of ordinary, just dudes talking kind of movie. There's moments for sure, there's moments, but Love is a really good movie.

[Mike Florio]

I also think that Private Ryan, it's a, it's a funny thing from Spielberg by the way, you want a hot take? Spielberg has made some downright lousy movies and 1941 isn't one of them. I know people get down on that. It's that that's a halfway decent movie.

[Brian Bishop]

Okay.

[Mike Florio]

Too hyped up. I think probably the thing with Private Ryan, the other one that's, that's a rubbish picture is War of the Worlds. It's really good for the. Oh, really 25 minutes. But then what the hell happens in that?

[Dave Dameshek]

It's just like, hold on. He ran out of what to do with the movie and it's like, yeah, let's just wrap this thing up.

[Mike Florio]

Let's just say that something happened in. In the air and it killed all the aliens because we have no way for the humans to survive.

[Brian Bishop]

I'll meet you halfway again and say that the movie does run out of steam. It runs out of track at some point. That said, I feel like there's enough good stuff there. That's an above average movie.

[Mike Florio]

Once they get into the cellar with what's his name.

[Brian Bishop]

Oh, it's a great scene with Tim Robbins.

[Mike Fuentes]

Tim Robbins. That's like the best scene of the movie.

[Brian Bishop]

That's a great scene.

[Mike Florio]

Yeah, I mean, it just completely becomes a different movie. And by the way, Saving Private Ryan shows the horrors of war for the first 25 minutes and then, and, and then it turns them into this weird sort of celebrated, like fictionalized version of. Of military heroism and all of that. It sort of like betrays exactly what you're supposed to see in the first 20 or 30. It relents of the movie.

[Brian Bishop]

It relents quite a bit. It becomes.

[Dave Dameshek]

Agree with my take about that though. Like two very different.

[Mike Florio]

Yeah, it can't have two different philosophies, basically.

[Brian Bishop]

I don't know how you sustain the momentum. It's impossible, frankly. Your audience would die of a heart attack. But like, yeah, the movie takes quite a turn and not for the better.

[Mike Florio]

But Crash is the worst movie on this list and it beat out Brokeback Mountain, which is a beautiful movie. The soundtrack alone makes it on the. The flannel shirt and the closet. All that is lovely stuff. Yeah,

[Dave Dameshek]

but based on the measure of

[Mike Florio]

what it beat, what, 1 in 70?

[Dave Dameshek]

What beat out Star Wars?

[Brian Bishop]

Again, I can't remember, was it Annie hall or was that the year before?

[Mike Florio]

Okay, that's fair.

[Brian Bishop]

Yeah, well, I'm guessing I don't remember exactly.

[Dave Dameshek]

The worst one is, as we talked

[Mike Florio]

about is Dances with Wolves beating Goodfellas, Shame the Devil. And Titanic is visually cool and everything the Effects are neat. But that story. What? Oh, wait, the guy is chained up to a pipe down in the basement of the. Of the ship.

[Dave Dameshek]

Hey, hey, James Cameron, I don't know

[Mike Florio]

if you heard, but the.

[Dave Dameshek]

The tragedy of the actual sinking of

[Mike Florio]

the ship is enough.

[Dave Dameshek]

You don't need to do the dumb love story where the guy's chained up by a gun toting henchmen of the mean bald guy, Billy Zane.

[Brian Bishop]

Yeah, I don't appreciate the bald guy being the bad guy, but I will say it's similar in a sense to your beloved Lord of the Rings in that it's. It's more about the overall achievement than it is about the actual, like, you know, the tropes of the storytelling. Like Lord of the Rings is just the hero's journey with a lot of, you know, bells and whistles hung on that. And they're very interesting. But the. The love I think Lord of the Rings got as a trilogy and as an award winner was the overall achievement. The masterful sort of lift of the whole thing was bald.

[Mike Florio]

Brian Bishop. We had a big debate two, three weeks ago. Let's hear it with Amin Elhassen and Jonathan Zaslow. And Mike Fuentes jumped in as well, and we were debating Paul Thomas Anderson and Quentin Tarantino. Now I'm going to throw your way Christopher Nolan. We can do fmk. Let's create a standard here. The guy who you choose, you can watch his movies whenever you want for the rest of your life. The second guy you choose, you can only watch his movies once a year. No, once every three years. The. The third guy, you never get to see any of his movies ever.

[Brian Bishop]

Oh, my God. That's a tough choice.

[Mike Florio]

Okay, if you're ready to weigh in. Oh, I know.

[Mike Fuentes]

I got mine already. I got mine.

[Mike Florio]

Go ahead.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Brian Bishop]

Okay. As the audience probably can tell, I've had no prep for this, so this is off top of my head, but.

[Dave Dameshek]

Well, let's hear Mike Fuentes.

[Mike Florio]

Mine's easy.

[Dave Dameshek]

I don't even know what my answer is.

[Mike Fuentes]

Paul Thomas Anderson, you're out of here. I'm never watching your stuff again. Then Quinn, Tarantino's number two and Nolan's number one.

[Dave Dameshek]

What is that?

[Mike Florio]

Go through Nolan's catalog for me. That why people are so like that they could never do without Christopher Nolan. Movies. Movies.

[Brian Bishop]

The reason I'll do this off the top of my head, and please correct me where I'm wrong, but I would choose Nolan's movies to watch any time because. Simply because.

[Mike Florio]

Although.

[Brian Bishop]

Although. Footnote caveats. My own choice when his brother stopped co writing the movies, they. There was a precipitous decline in the emotional component. Like those early movies from Inception to the prestige of Dark Knight, Dark Knight Rises, of course, that whole trilogy, Interstellar, Inception. These are movies that have. That have universes inside them. They're high, they're low, the emotions are there. It's all at all. Those are movies that, you know, Interstellar connected with me emotionally, a lot of people. Whereas the Tarantino movies have brought me some of joy in my life. I might choose to watch those once a year because as great as they are, they're more of an event in my life and less of an emotion. I don't know that I've ever connected with a Tarantino film emotionally. I've been, notwithstanding being super impressed and being super satisfied. Paul Thomas Anderson. I have deep, deep love for Boogie Nights and Punch Drunk Love and even There Will Be Blood, some of those early movies. Magnolia, actually, I'm way above market on Magnolia, but he has an uneven catalog. I don't care for the Phantom thread. I don't care for Inherent Vice.

[Mike Florio]

I see. I like the Phantom. The thread.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Brian Bishop]

Not for me so painfully. I love Paul Thomas Anderson. I love his movies, obviously, but if I'm given the choice between those three, he's the one that's. That's got.

[Mike Florio]

I mean, There Will Be Blood, Boogie or Ranking the movies and then we're veering into Rewatch ability. But if you could sort of tap into your young self and you would with fresh eyes and you're helping yourself, your old self is going to say you're going to like this guy's movies, but you see them with fresh eyes. I think Paul Thomas Anderson maybe has the best of. Because There Will Be Blood, Boogie Nights. I'm with you on Punch Drunk Love too.

[Brian Bishop]

I love that movie.

[Mike Florio]

Some people just. I think it just goes right over a lot of people's heads for some reason. And then the most recent, one battle after another. I would have to say, as much as it would pain me to say goodbye to Christopher Nolan, I think he's in the third spot. For me, it has to be a goodbye. Nothing like bane in that WW2 fighter plane flying past the troops on the

[Dave Dameshek]

coastline and them all erupting. When he comes back around and the engines out, he's out of gas and he just keeps on going and they all cheer for him as he goes

[Mike Florio]

to certain death down the coastline. Powerful stuff.

[Brian Bishop]

I'm below market on Dunkirk, but it's funny because his later stuff I don't need. I don't need Oppenheimer in my life. You know what I mean? I don't like. You could make a case and. Yes, I do. I do see your point of view that Nolan's movies as. Losing the Dark Knight would be a hard thing in my life, but so would losing Boogie Night. That's a celebrated movie in my life. I love that movie so much.

[Mike Florio]

Yeah.

[Mike Fuentes]

Losing Dark Knight. That's the best superhero.

[Gino Fuentes]

That's a bridge too far.

[Mike Fuentes]

It's the best superhero movie ever made. It's tough to. Like. I'm never gonna see Heath Ledger play this character again. It's tough. Tenet can go away.

[Mike Florio]

Come down bald on a conversation I know we've never had in superhero movies or. But people always leave this one out. But Invincible. And in fact, I just watched Glass, which I did not think was what's.

[Brian Bishop]

What's invincible?

[Jeff Schwartz]

The.

[Brian Bishop]

The.

[Mike Florio]

The.

[Brian Bishop]

The football movie.

[Mike Florio]

Wait, isn't that in. No, not Invincible. Then what you're thinking.

[Mike Fuentes]

Unbreakable. Unbreakable is what?

[Mike Florio]

Unbreakable.

[Jeff Schwartz]

I'm sorry.

[Brian Bishop]

Shyamalan movie.

[Mike Florio]

Yeah.

[Brian Bishop]

Very good. Excellent. Really good movie. Underrated because it followed up the Sixth Sense, and of course, the expectations were sky high. We're really good movie. I mean, if you're calling a superhero movie watch, I guess you should.

[Mike Florio]

It. It's much superhero movie.

[Brian Bishop]

Yeah. But it's much quieter. You know what I mean? It's much of a slow burn. More than like your average Marvel movie or DC movie. That said, really good, solid performances all around. Yeah. Kind of forgotten, like, dismissed, like, oh, this wasn't the Sixth Sense. So we're not, you know, it's not going to be celebrated. And to an extent, that's correct. But it is a very good movie.

[Mike Florio]

Well, if you haven't seen it, Glass, which is the third in the trilogy, and then there's one in the middle. I think it's called Split.

[Mike Fuentes]

Split with James McAvoy. How did he not get nominated for that? He plays like 12 characters.

[Brian Bishop]

He was very good.

[Mike Florio]

23 characters. Yeah, 24. And then they all get together, sort of like, you know, Avengers endgame, almost kind of thing. All three of them are together in one crazy house. And it has the M. Night Shyamalan twist towards the end of it and all of that. I think those are a little bit underrated.

[Brian Bishop]

It might be right. How was Glass? I never saw. So how was Glass?

[Dave Dameshek]

I mean, better than I expected because

[Mike Florio]

I had no expectations because I'd never heard anything about it. I barely even knew that it had existed until I stumbled across it on pay cable one day. The question or the thing that we talked about here? We did a Tarantino character draft and we'd love for you to join us for another one down the line. But one of the categories we did is which Tarantino character would you least want to be hunted by?

[Mike Fuentes]

To me,

[Brian Bishop]

I'm a big fan of your show. So I remember this. You made the. I think you picked last and you somehow got the bride.

[Mike Florio]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jeff Schwartz]

What the hell.

[Brian Bishop]

No, that's the one you don't want. She went to the court, she went to the corners of the Earth, defeated, murdered 88 trained Yakuza Bo Brian.

[Mike Florio]

That's the important point.

[Dave Dameshek]

No, it's not that. He was given a.

[Mike Florio]

She was given a list of like the. Or made a list. I want to kill these people and now I'm going to set about killing them.

[Dave Dameshek]

They're the greatest killers on the planet Earth and she kills them all.

[Mike Fuentes]

Yeah, but see, Dave, you're doing this thing where once you find him. Yeah, she'll kill. I'm not going to try to fight her. I'm not trying to fight her. I'm trying to run. I don't need to confront her. Plus, she's a nice guy.

[Brian Bishop]

She'll find you.

[Mike Fuentes]

Yeah, but she's a good guy. She's gonna like, you know, reason with me. We're gonna have a conversation. Has Landa just gonna find me and I'm dead.

[Jeff Schwartz]

It's over.

[Mike Fuentes]

That's a wrap.

[Dave Dameshek]

What are you talking about? He needs troops. We don't see him kill anybody.

[Mike Florio]

Except for. What's her name?

[Dave Dameshek]

Diana Fuerstermark. He strangles her to death after he takes her shoe.

[Mike Fuentes]

Bridget von Hammerschmark, bald Brian.

[Brian Bishop]

Let me just say this.

[Mike Florio]

How about that one I sent you in Baldiwood? Bald Brian honors our rec of actor redundancies, which is the same actor doing very specific things in two separate completely different projects. Some of our most famous very quickly. Kevin Spacey is the subject of a police sketch artist in both Seven and Usual Suspects, so on and so forth. How about the one I just sent you? What's her name again? Diane first Mark.

[Paul Cohorst]

Whatever.

[Brian Bishop]

Diane Kruger.

[Mike Florio]

Diane Kruger has her shoe taken off and put on by a man in two movies. That's very weird.

[Brian Bishop]

That's an excellent one. I will point out that Hans Landa, of course, as a first round draft pick. However, the sheen is off the roads because a common farm girl, Sashana managed to elude him for years. Not just once, but twice face to face where she escaped from the barn and then later when they're having lunch together, she escaped his clutches. So yes, the the Jew Hunter is of course a first round pick for his lethal stick to itiveness. That said, he has some chinks in the armor.

[Dave Dameshek]

And Beatrix Kiddo.

[Mike Florio]

What?

[Dave Dameshek]

What are you talking about?

[Mike Florio]

Mike Fuentes. Beatrix Kiddo finds whoever she wants to find.

[Mike Fuentes]

She was looking for very specific people that probably leave a very specific trail is all I'm saying.

[Dave Dameshek]

They're killers. She killed Bill.

[Mike Florio]

You know, spoiler alert.

[Brian Bishop]

She's going to the corner the corners of the earth to find these people,

[Mike Fuentes]

but she has a vendetta against them. What's her vendetta with me?

[Dave Dameshek]

She don't even know me.

[Mike Florio]

I mean, bottom line is the teams that drafted quarterbacks not named Tom Brady in that draft are now off the hook because Mike Fuentes, Amin and Zaz chose Tarantino characters other than Beatrix Kiddo to get hunted by crazy.

[Brian Bishop]

What a draft.

[Mike Florio]

Bald Brian Bishop, obviously longtime pal, rooting for your success, but proud of you already for making the movie on a tough subject. Something that I was talking at the top of the show earlier on Football America about not letting this define you and sort of owning it and not giving credit to your foe here, which is cancer, and turning it on its ear. And I feel like you've done that to some degree over the last 20 years. So tip of the cap to you, pally.

[Brian Bishop]

Thanks buddy. I appreciate the support. I appreciate you always inviting me on the show. Are we out of time? Do you want to do an actor redundancy or two?

[Mike Florio]

Yeah, take it away. I'm always down for some actor redundancies.

[Brian Bishop]

Well, we always enjoy the actor redundancies. When an actor does an oddly specific thing in two separate non related movies, we call it an actor redundancy. I highlight those once a week in my newsletter About Baldiwood newsletter. Check those out. A recent one that I highlighted that you may enjoy the recently deceased and missed Robert Duvall plays a lieutenant colonel in the military who shouts most of his dialogue in two movies in the same year, Apocalypse now and the Great Santini. Duvall received Oscar nominations for both movies.

[Mike Florio]

I like that one a lot. My favorite one as I you know the one I always mention at the top is the Kevin Spacey one. Keanu Reeves. Keanu Reeves backstory in two movies is that he was the Ohio State quarterback is pretty weird and specific. My. My favorite. Well also the guy, I can never think of his name, but the guy who plays Billy in Predator?

[Brian Bishop]

Sonny Landham.

[Mike Florio]

Sonny Landham, right. Who's mostly a porn star.

[Paul Cohorst]

Right?

[Mike Florio]

Wasn't that. Didn't he, didn't he. He was in porns.

[Brian Bishop]

I don't know anything about these things, Dave.

[Mike Florio]

I'm pretty sure he was.

[Jeff Schwartz]

Was.

[Mike Florio]

But the two movies that he was in, mainstream movies were 48 Hours where he's the bat, one of the two bad guys. And he gets shot dead shirtless with a giant Rambo style knife in his hand by Eddie Murphy in 48 Hours. And then in Predator, he stands out on the fallen log that's crossing the stream and awaits Predator and gets killed by the predator shirtless, holding a giant Rambo knife.

[Dave Dameshek]

That's the craziest one.

[Mike Florio]

But now rivaling that one. Oh, is, is, of course, I can't think of her name. Olivia something or other is the actor's name, but she, in two movies is draped in red velvet, sitting in a chair and asleep, and is visited and talks to someone from the great beyond.

[Brian Bishop]

Yes, yes, movies. Well, it is Olivia.

[Mike Florio]

And I can't remember the other movie. She does it, but she does it.

[Brian Bishop]

Let me see if I have it here in front of me. Dave, I don't know if you know this, but I have a lot of actor adults he's written down.

[Mike Florio]

Yeah, I appreciate that.

[Brian Bishop]

Now I only have, I only have the Tony Collette one, which is in the sixth sense and in hereditary and sixth sense, child talks to dead people. In the hereditary, a dead person talks to as her child, like her child speaks. Like, as a dead person is pretty creepy.

[Mike Florio]

I think we've uncovered something here that I already knew, but it's, it's like for me, like with donuts, I don't eat donuts very often, but like once every five months or so, you know, the kids will, will, will go out for donuts. I'll be like, all right, you know what? I'm gonna get a donut this time. And I get one. I'm like, man, donuts are good. I gotta eat more donuts. But then I don't eat one for another five months or so. That's the experience with Bald Brian. We enjoy talking about movies here, so let's, let's try to make a better habit of bringing you in here. We can do some Tarantino character drafts. Maybe you have a good idea for a Paul Thomas Anderson or a Chris Nolan draft, come up with a category and we'll make it. So in the meantime, like I say, Baldbrian, Baldywood, make sure you're checking that out on Substack. And also best wishes and break a leg and all that. That with. With growth out there and hope it makes all the big theaters and track it down. Is there anywhere to track it down right now or should we wait for it to show up?

[Brian Bishop]

If you're in the Bay Area, which is, I imagine, a small slice of your audience, you can see it on Sunday or Monday. It's going to be premiering at the Alamo Drafthouse in Mountain View. But again, that's a very small percentage of your audience. The rest of you are going to have to wait until it gets widely distributed, which hopefully will be sometime this year. Like you said, Dave, I'm, as you know, I'm a bit of a braggadocious fellow sometimes, but it's quite humbling to have strangers see your movie and say really nice things about it. So I'm hoping that everyone gets to see it soon.

[Mike Florio]

Well, good for you. I'll try to keep you grounded. Even if I like it, I'll tell you, I think it sucks.

[Brian Bishop]

I appreciate that. I need that.

[Mike Florio]

Okay. Okay. Done and done. Also, a great trivia mind is Bald Brian there. He's been on on TV game shows even. So maybe we'll get him in here for some more Mr. Lister categories. In the meantime, there go Bald Brian. And here we go, too. Thanks to him and to Jeff Schwarz and thanks to you, my fellow football Americans. Keep on subscribing, spreading the good word. Find the show wherever you find your audio podcast and make sure you're subscribed to the Football America YouTube page. Until next time for everybody here on Football America, thanks so much.

[Dave Dameshek]

It's been a thin slice of heaven,

[Jeff Schwartz]

Sam.