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The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
GOOD FOLLOW - Napheesa and Cathy are Playing Chess, Aces Lead 2-0 In WNBA Finals & More!
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You'Re listening to DraftKings Network.
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A
Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome to Goodfellow show, presented by DraftKings. I am Rob Ross, golden boy, and that is five time WNBA All Star Angel McCartrey. Angel, what's up, girl?
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C
What's up, girl? I'm here in New York promoting my new film, Bygones.
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A
Yeah, you got a premiere tonight, right?
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C
Got a premiere Tonight. It drops October 10th, so you guys can watch on Amazon Prime, Hugh TV Network, Apple Spot all the things. So hope you guys like it.
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A
Oh, my gosh, angel, you are doing a bit of everything. You are a true renaissance woman. You got movies, you got buckets. You know, it's the WNBA Finals right now, and we've seen some very explosive performances in these WNBA Finals. People getting big buckets, putting up big numbers, scoring performances. But before we start our show, I do want to point out, angel, nobody has scored the ball in the WNBA Finals like you have. Okay? Oh, my gosh, angel, you have scored the most points in WNBA finals history with 38 points. And you, your name kept coming up in the broadcast of game two because Asia was. Asia was going off for 20 at the half. Then there was 21 points in a quarter for, for Jackie Young. And it was like, can she break Angel McCartrey's record? Angel, I mean, just what was it like for you to just kind of be reminded of the buckets that you used to get a near 40 piece in the WNBA Finals?
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C
Yeah, it's a great reminder of the work you put in because like you said, I, I forgot about all this stuff. Just like, fans are like, oh, we forgot. I forgot, too. So I'm like, I did that.
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A
It's.
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C
It's a, it's a beautiful shock. And so it's good to see that these young girls are breaking those records. But it's so much fun to see your name involved in that. And you know I did something right, so.
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A
You absolutely did. And you know, I know there's a lot of new fandom, new people to, to basketball. I'm, I'm. If they don't know Angel McCaughrey, they better. And it's a good remind you're really a legend of the game and a future hall of Famer. So it was, it was cool to. And you're our girl. We're so proud of you at Goodfellow show.
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C
I'm a good follow show. That's all that matters, right?
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A
Our girl, Angel McCartrey, WNBA legend. But look, we got, we got a lot to talk about today in the show. Here's the menu. Gosh, the WNBA never fails to entertain the Kathy. There's new information about the Kathy Engelbert, Nafeesa Collier situation. Kathy and Fee and the cba. Oh, my God. And then the WNBA Finals head to Phoenix as the Mercury try to bounce back against the Aces. So we'll be looking at the WNBA.
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C
Finals and you guys can catch us Tuesdays and Thursdays. Please, like, comment and subscribe. Thank you for all you do. And following our show. Roz, let's get in it. This is exciting.
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A
Okay, guys, we are going to get to all of the new information out around Nafeesa Collier, Kathy Engelbert and the cba. But first we've got to talk about the WNBA Finals that is taking center stage and certainly on our show. So the Aces right now at the time of taping are up 2 and oh, after winning both of their games at home, it was the Aces bench and the Aces big three that are completely outplaying the Mercury's bench and the Mercury's big three. And it's also clear that the Aces championship experience is paying off. So angel, if I could scene set for you. Game one, the Mercury led by as much as nine points. They had some costly mistakes, emotional, you know, moments, bad texts. They gave up 20 points on 14 turnovers. And that was the game that they really could have stolen. It cost them the chance to do that. Game two, they trailed by as much as 22. The Aces were dominant. So, okay, the series is heading to Phoenix. They're down.02. If you are in that Phoenix locker room with you having been a player, angel, how do they reframe this right now?
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C
You said it best, Roz. It's an emotional weight that's on them. My message is to @ Alyssa Thomas, you are letting game one affect game two and effect game three. You are the emotional weight of the team. They follow you, right? Those free throws got to you. You got to let it go. This game here at home, you got to win one game at a time. Do what you got to do, meditate, pray, read the Bible, I don't care. Let go of game one so you can will your team to victory one game at a time. That is what's affecting the Phoenix Mercury. It's emotional. We know what to do. We know the game plan. We know how we got to play. We know we can beat them. But if you continue this emotional weight on you, you're not going to beat the Aces. Let it go. Fresh new game to me at is 00. Let's go.
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A
Yeah.
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C
If she refresh and resets, they're going to win the next game. That's it.
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A
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I think control of their emotions, of the physicality, of the toughness factor for the Phoenix Mercury, they don't have a lot of control. They've. They've seemed out of control in spurts and they've been costly spurts for them. Um, and I think to, you know, for me, I'm looking at it like, look, don't. This is not a time for the aces to have a victory lap yet. All the aces did is do what they were supposed to do. They won at home. You know, they won at home. Now. Now they got there, too. Now you go home to Phoenix and you got a chance to win at home. You tie this series up, the narrative is different. The way this whole series feels is different. And you should take some confidence in the fact that you could have stolen game one, you know, so I think. I think for the Phoenix Mercury, it's an overall gut check for this team. Their bench is typically the best bench in the wnba. In the regular season, they're getting thoroughly outplayed by Jewell Lloyd and Dana Evans. You know, the big three. For the Aces, whether it's. Whether it's Jackie Young with 21 points in that third quarter or 32 in a game, or it's a double double from Asia Wilson, 20 at half. And for me, it's been Chelsea Gray, who I think they really got to find a way to limit her control of the game, not only physically, but emotionally. She's so emotionally charged and it's on offense and defense. You know, she's averaging a near triple double. She's averaging 10 assists a game. When the Aces are truly cooking over the course of years now, Chelsea Gray is stirring that pot. Okay. And she's getting steals and blocks and assists, and she's hitting big buckets and just screaming and pouring out emotion. So I think it's going to be key to lower her impact. I also want to just tap in on what you said about Alyssa Thomas as well, in that, you know, I think she's. She's struggled so far in the matchup against Asia Wilson. Asia Wilson's size has been a big factor against her, and overall, it's been hard for her to defend Asia Asia. She's scoring right over her, and offensively, she's taking less shots. She's got less, you know, assists. She seems less aggressive on the court. And for the Mercury, when they're cooking, it's Alyssa Thomas, her fingerprints all over the game. So to your point, Angel, I think it starts with her. And Satu Sable has to lock in that emotional control. She's made some mistakes. She's not shooting well. And I think with the bench battle, they need more from Dana Bonner and Sammy Wolm if she's healthy.
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C
Angel, absolutely. You guys, focus. Get your emotional maturity together. Stop worrying about the vacation next week. You have plenty of time to go to Mexico. Focus and get the win. Get a win. Then we'll go from there.
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A
All right?
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C
Jesus.
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A
I feel you, Angel. And that will actually take us to Game 3, which is our DraftKings Pick of the Week, presented by DraftKings. This week, I have my eye on Game 3 of the WNBA Finals. With the Mercury's X factor being their home crowd, I'm picking them to win this critical Game 3. In fact, for the Mercury, I'm saying Game 3 is a must win. My players to watch are Dewana Bonner and Dana Evans. As the production, or lack of production from the bench has been a huge factor in this series. This segment is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings. The Crown is yours. All right, guys. Coming up, there's new information out about the public drama between the WNBA players, the leadership, Kathy Fee, and the cba. Oh, my. We'll get to it. We'll be right back.
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A
Hey, what's up y'? All? Welcome back to Goodfellow, presented by DraftKings. She's Angel. I'm Roz. And guess what? There's new information that has come out about this increasingly turbulent relationship between Nafisa Collier and WNBA Commissioner Kathy Engelbert in a new ESPN article by Ramona Shelburne and Kendra Andrews. It's a very interesting read. They do have some new, interesting details. One part of the article that was interesting so according to espn, players have been asking for data from the WNBA and its leadership and they have been given it. So it says, according to sources on both sides of the CBA negotiations, under the current CBA, players don't get additional revenue sharing. So it's 9% for the WNBA players as opposed to about 49 to 51% in the NBA. And they don't get that additional revenue sharing until the league has generated a certain level of revenue, which it has said it has yet to do after decades of multimillion dollar losses at the franchise and league level. So naturally, the players want the league to give them the data that proves that the case and those requests have not been met. Angel so angel, you're, you're a player. You've been a player for a long time in the wnba. How does this lack of transparency from the wnba as reported in the ESPN article, add to distrust?
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C
It continues to add to distrust and it continues to add to what nafisa Collier is talking about what is so hard to release the data. Right? Because people are starting to calculate things. These girls are not dumb athletes. They know how to do math. Some stuff just don't add up. Whether it adds up or not, these are issues that can be fixed. Different girls revenue off their jersey sales or, you know, stop finding girls for a plan overseas. Make like it's things that can be fixed to, to show that you care about these women in their livelihoods. Because once again, who has the largest contract in the wnba? Kathy, you have the largest con. You make the most in the wba. So as a woman, Kathy, I know you said you're human, so I want you to come into this human side. As a woman, how can you continue to fight for these women if. If we can't put all the pressure on you? Maybe you're not making all the decisions, but are you in those boardrooms fighting for what we need? That's what we need to know, too.
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A
Yeah. Angel, to your point, I think what players are seeing is that team valuations are going up. You know, ratings are. Brand deals are up. Money is being poured into the league, but they're waiting for it to be trickled down to them. And from what we've gathered is, look, the league is willing to say, yes, we will raise your salaries, but they're not willing to give a bigger slice of the business. And so remember, these players are in a, in a labor dispute, not only trying to make a difference for, for their salaries and well being, but they're literally kind of laying the path work for future generations of WNBA players. So there's a lot at stake right now. And with so much at stake, I do want to take us back to revisiting Kathy Engelbert's press conference at the start of the WNBA finals. This was huge. We haven't had the chance to really address it on our show yet. Key takeaways for me of Kathy Engelbert's comments. So I thought she was strong on officiating. She seemed to understand that there was a need for addressing the issues with officiating. She described a plan. She mentioned committees. It feels like there will be work done by the WNBA to make officiating better in the league. I also thought as a talking point, it was important for Kathy. She was trying to convey a relationship with the players that could be repaired. She said, I feel confident we could repair any loss of trust. So she was trying to convey that. And then two standout moments that obviously gone viral a little bit out of it is the way that she handled direct questioning about the comments Nafeesa Collier made describing their personal conversation. There were two moments. The first one right off the bat was with Malika Andrews. She asked her, is it true that you said players should be on their hands and knees thanking their lucky stars for the right steal that I got them? And let's listen to how Kathy answered that question. There's a lot of inaccuracy out there through social media and all this reporting. Well, that's, that's a non answer. Right? That's certainly not a denial. Kind of feels like a little bit of did she say yes or no? Did she outright deny anything?
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C
Angel, that's. We want to know when, when you're asked the question, people want to want the answer, yes, I said it or no, I didn't say it. And Fee is not the kind of person that makes stuff up. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Oh, there's something along. You're right. So something along those lines. Worse said so why? What are the inaccuracies and what is accurate? Describe that to us.
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A
Right. And let me take you to the next question. Much later in the media session. So minutes passed and at the towards the end, Annie Costable doubled back and asked Kathy, did you say Caitlin should be grateful she makes 16 million off the court without the W platform? She would not make that. Let's listen to how Kathy answered that. Obviously, I did not make those comments. Caitlin has been a transformational player in this league. That's a very, that's a very different answer, my friend. That's a very different strategy. Now that was a denial. Now that one thing about Kathy, she was not trying to allow anybody to say she said that about Caitlyn. That was big Caitlyn business. That she was not trying to alienate her fan base, upset Caitlyn, one of their most valuable assets of the wnba. She came out and said, not only did she say, I did not say that, she said, obviously I did not say that. Very different language. What do you make of that?
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C
Well, one thing you don't want to do is upset the Caitlyn fan base. The Caitlyn fan base is basically on the same level as the Beehive, Beyonce's fan base. They don't play and they will come after you. So honestly, she could have said something in that way. But hey, maybe I didn't say it the way Nafisa read it. So no, I didn't say that. You know what I mean? But it's, it's It's. This is. I don't even know what to say about that.
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A
Like, yeah, yeah, It's. I don't know. And in her answers, ultimately, and especially in the answer about Caitlin Clark, what she did there was. She now made somebody a liar. With that answer, somebody is not telling the truth. And so, you know, Nafeesa Collier is listening to this press conference and probably sitting there wondering, is she gonna do it? Is she gonna deny it? Is she gonna lie? Now, we don't. Again, we were not privy to the conversation we said on our last show. Kathy has the opportunity to respond and negate what was said in a private conversation. So now it's up to public opinion to decide who's telling the truth. All right, so that brings me to the next point, y', all, folks. We are watching a game of chess being played right before our eyes, and it's who's gonna get checkmate first. So Nafisa Collier, she's using a lot of strategy successfully in many ways, and this is often the case. There's nothing negative about being strategic in a labor dispute. But just to point out a couple of the chess moves, Fee had this conversation with Kathy Engelbert in February. She has sat on this conversation and very damning information since February, understanding what the right time would be to drop this bomb. And. And really couldn't have been better timing with Kathy having addressed press and the magnifying glass of the finals. I mean, she strategically delivered that information. Then I want to point out another chess move by Fee. So Kathy denied saying the things that Fee said she said. And Fee responded by canceling the meeting so that Kathy said they were going to have. Now, I think on one hand, she canceled the meeting because Kathy made a liar out of her. So Kathy said, I didn't say that. So she probably felt insulted that Kathy is saying something Fi said is not true or false. But I also think there's a bigger chess move there in that. Remember in that press conference, Kathy was trying to convey to her audience and the public that she still had the ear of the room, that she still had a conversation coming up with Nafeesa Collier. Don't worry. Things are okay. We can repair the trust. I'm talking to Nafeesa Collier later this week, and she really tried to hammer that home as something to show, trust me, I still have control of this. And Fee negated everything, the whole power of that point by canceling that meeting. Boy, when I saw the report that Fee has canceled the meeting, I said, what a move. I was like, brilliant. Whatever Kathy was selling, she said, not happening. It was brilliant.
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C
I, I think, I think she canceled the meeting because she wasn't happy with the press conference. I think there was something said or something not said, something not admitted to that she was like, you know what? This meeting is getting canceled. And I'm going to prove my point to you that we're not playing. We're. We're making a point and we want some change. Change happens today with Nafisa Kali and we're all backing her. You know what I mean? Because I was even told Roz, with certain comments that I wanted to make for the league, wait till you retire. Wait till you retire. Don't. Don't say yet. Right? So we all. But Fee, she just took us there. She took us there. So, yeah, this is.
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A
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C
That I, I like him chiming in. I would love for Adam, since we're a brother sister league, to go to some of the CBA negotiations, sit in the room, hear what the woman have to say, hear some of their concerns and let's go from there. Let's build something.
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A
Yeah. Here. I'm here to tell you that NBA leadership is very much to breast on what's happening in these CBA negotiations. In fact, I actually think there's a situation where in some ways Kathy Engelbert is more of like a figurehead who's who's getting scapegoated in some ways or being piled on in some ways. And while she's certainly flawed and has made some mistakes here, she's not the only decision maker who is denying some of the requests of these players. Look, Kathy, as Adam Silver has pointed out, has had success as a commissioner. She's also had some flaws. She's business success, but struggled to connect with the players and show the right empathy at times. But I think in our society it's often easy to pile on on a woman. And here is a figurehead who may not have, who likely doesn't have complete agency. She's definitely reporting into all the different ownership groups of the wnba. That's the NBA, that's the team owners. There's a small investment group, it's even Nike. It actually might be easier for all of those parties I just mentioned to keep her as that forward facing kind of scapegoat, let her take the blame and do the dirty work while behind the scenes they're the ones that can escape criticism and push for giving the women less. And you know, I'm not even sure that making Cathy, this central lone figure like that's a villain in this story is actually benefiting the quest of the players because it might actually be creating this convenient veil of COVID for, you know, true decision makers, actors behind the scenes to, you know, push their agendas and do what they want and deny these players of the actual slice of business that they're looking for. Angel, again, we're out of time this show. We need more than 25 minutes. But you know where you can find us Tuesdays and Thursdays. Make sure you tap in for Thursday's episode. We got a special interview coming up. You won't want to miss it. But for Angel, I'm Raz. Thank you for watching Goodfellow show presented by DraftKings and watch bygones. It's coming out.
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C
Wine Angel October 10th.
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A
All right, we'll catch you then. Take care of.
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Julian Edlow here from DK Network. Tune in to DKN Daily Bets Monday through Friday, a fun quick hitting podcast where we bring in knowledgeable guests from across across the sports betting industry to break down our favorite bets of the day. Find DKN Daily Bets wherever you listen to your podcasts.