Hour 1: Atop Dan Le Batard's Ivory Tower

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz – "Hour 1: Atop Dan Le Batard's Ivory Tower"

Release Date: March 27, 2025

In the first hour of this episode titled "Atop Dan Le Batard's Ivory Tower," hosts Dan LeBatard and Stugotz delve into a robust discussion surrounding sports journalism, focusing particularly on the reputation and integrity of Brian Windhorst. The conversation intertwines personal anecdotes, industry insights, and a humorous take on fan interactions, providing listeners with an engaging exploration of media perceptions in the sports world.

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1. Defense of Brian Windhorst

Amin Elhassan initiates the conversation by defending Brian Windhorst, addressing the widespread criticism that Windhorst faces for his long-term coverage of LeBron James. Elhassan challenges the notion that Windhorst's extensive reporting equates to favoritism or personal bias.

• Amin Elhassan (02:00): "Brian Wyndhurst exists in this weird space where half the people hate him because, oh, yeah, you hate LeBron. You're always hating on LeBron and the other half of the people hate him. You're always in the tank for your guy LeBron."

Billy Gill questions the basis of the criticism against Windhorst, highlighting the economic benefits LeBron's presence brings to the show and the broader sports community.

• Billy Gill (03:33): "Brian Windhorse is an incredibly hard worker. Hard stop. And Brian Windhorse is also disliked because people simply think that he has been at the economy of LeBron since he was young, which he has been."

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2. Misconceptions About Journalism and Personal Relationships

The hosts explore the blurred lines between professional reporting and personal relationships, emphasizing that long-term coverage does not necessarily imply personal friendship or bias.

• Amin Elhassan (04:10): "He's presenting as a friend. And I'm like, y'all not know how journalism works?"

• Stugotz (06:26): "Crazy."

Elhassan outlines three major misconceptions:

1. Personal Relationships: The false assumption that Windhorst and LeBron attended high school together.
2. Professional Focus: Windhorst's extensive writing on LeBron stems from his role as a journalist, not personal obsession.
3. Accountability: The erroneous belief that Windhorst's reporting mishaps are his fault, rather than a misunderstanding of journalistic practices.

• Amin Elhassan (06:36): "It's a fundamental misunderstanding of, like, how things work. It's not even like, I don't like you or I don't trust the media. It's like, why are you writing books?"

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3. The Cookie and Ice Cream Incident

A significant portion of the discussion centers on a controversial incident involving the removal of cookies and ice cream from LeBron James' plane. The conversation dissects the conflicting reports about who made the decision—Pat Riley or the team’s nutritionist—and Dan LeBatard’s role in reporting the story.

• Billy Gill (11:56): "I found so many people saying that story was not true. People are calling me out after LeBron confirms it."

• Amin Elhassan (15:32): "Dan, I want to clarify... If Dan said it wasn't this, it was a nutritionist and never clarified where you got said information from, that's being a mouthpiece."

Elhassan criticizes the audience's misunderstanding of journalistic integrity, emphasizing that receiving information from one source does not equate to acting as a spokesperson.

• Amin Elhassan (17:03): "A distinction that people don't care about... They don't know."

Dan LeBatard acknowledges the complexities in differentiating between reporting and personal opinions, stressing the importance of maintaining integrity to earn the audience's trust.

• Dan LeBatard (17:03): "The audience has to trust that when you're not saying that, you are not being told what to say."

The hosts debate the challenges journalists face in an era where media figures are often perceived as biased, regardless of their actual professionalism.

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4. Journalism Ethics and Public Perception

The episode delves into the ethical responsibilities of journalists to separate facts from opinions and the public's tendency to conflate the two, especially when dealing with high-profile figures like LeBron James.

• Billy Gill (22:10): "The distinction is if... you say someone's lying, you're focusing it to just this right versus he's a liar."

• Amin Elhassan (24:38): "How it's presented. And so, Dan, if you're saying I'm expecting people... you're giving them the benefit of the doubt."

The hosts emphasize the necessity for clear communication and transparency in reporting to mitigate misunderstandings and uphold journalistic standards.

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5. Fan Engagement and Tournament Prompts

Transitioning from the heavy discussion on journalism, the hosts engage in a lighter segment about their March Sadness Tournament, highlighting the interactive nature of their show and the playful banter that characterizes their rapport.

• Stugotz (26:46): "What is the worst part of the life? You know, just put your nose to..."

• Amin Elhassan (27:48): "They bring me two cookies, and I'll get to gambling with the guys."

This segment underscores the show's commitment to maintaining a connection with their audience through interactive and entertaining content, balancing serious discussions with humor and fan participation.

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6. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, the hosts remain reflective about the ongoing challenges in sports journalism, particularly in maintaining unbiased reporting amidst public scrutiny and personal associations.

• Dan LeBatard (17:40): "The audience has to trust that when you're not saying that, you are not being told what to say."

• Amin Elhassan (23:45): "The joke is, like, that's the whole meme. Yeah. Like, he's pretend."

The conversation concludes with a humorous take on their interactions with fans and the media, leaving listeners with a nuanced understanding of the complexities involved in sports reporting and the importance of maintaining professional integrity.

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Notable Quotes:

• Amin Elhassan (02:00): "Brian Wyndhurst exists in this weird space where half the people hate him because, oh, yeah, you hate LeBron."

• Billy Gill (03:33): "Brian Windhorse is an incredibly hard worker... people think that he has been at the economy of LeBron since he was young."

• Dan LeBatard (17:03): "The audience has to trust that when you're not saying that, you are not being told what to say."

• Amin Elhassan (24:38): "How it's presented. And so, Dan, if you're saying I'm expecting people... you're giving them the benefit of the doubt."

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This episode provides a comprehensive look into the dynamics of sports journalism, the personal defenses of a prominent journalist, and the broader implications of media trustworthiness. Through candid discussions and insightful critiques, Dan LeBatard and Stugotz offer listeners a deeper understanding of the challenges and responsibilities inherent in reporting within the high-stakes world of sports.

Transcript

[Dan LeBatard]

You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network.

[Stugotz]

Wow.

[Amin Elhassan]

What's up?

[Dan LeBatard]

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[Stugotz]

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[Dan LeBatard]

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[Stugotz]

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[Billy Gill]

Didn't even have to do any paperwork.

[Dan LeBatard]

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[Billy Gill]

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[Stugotz]

Well, I do know that to be true.

[Billy Gill]

But even during ad reads like Cuervo.

[Stugotz]

I think he could lay out, especially for one of our great partners.

[Billy Gill]

Sweet, delicious Cuervo.

[Stugotz]

Since then, Cuervo has stayed true to its roots.

[Billy Gill]

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[Amin Elhassan]

Cuervo.

[Stugotz]

Cuervo, the tequila that invented tequila.

[Dan LeBatard]

Proximo. Cuervo.com, please drink responsibly.

[Billy Gill]

Cuervo.

[Stugotz]

This is the Don Levator show with the Stugats podcast.

[Billy Gill]

An emotional Amin keeps talking during the break about his and our beloved Brian Windhorse, inaugural member of the Jonathan Zaslow Tool hall of Fame. Amin is friends with Brian.

[Amin Elhassan]

I've never heard him say it out loud.

[Billy Gill]

I like Brian Windhorst, and I know him a little bit. I cannot call myself a friend of Brian Windhorst, but I have admired the work that he has done for a long time. And your defense of Brian Windhorst during the break, what were you getting mad about while you were staring at your phone?

[Amin Elhassan]

No, it's just the number of people who seem to think that Brian went to high school with LeBron. Like, he was off the school paper covering LeBron and like. No, Brian Wyndhurst is like, my age. We're much older than LeBron. Brian Whenhurst was out of college and a grown man working in newspapers. When LeBron was first coming up as a phenom, as many local newspapers. I know people don't read newspapers anymore, but once upon a time, kids, newspapers had writers that were assigned beats. The beat was the thing that you covered. And some people covered the local NFL team, and some people covered the local hockey team. But the entry level in the sports department, Dan, was you would cover what? What would you Cover as. Not for you, but in general, a newspaper journalist.

[Billy Gill]

I mean, you could cover high school.

[Amin Elhassan]

You cover high school. So Brian worked for the Akron Beacon Journal, I believe, and he was covering high school. I wonder who was playing high school sports. Who was really good in Akron at that time? Not really good for Akron. Not really good for Northeast Ohio. Not really good for Ohio. Good nationally. So of course he covers LeBron James. Right. And then LeBron gets drafted. And so what does the Akron Beacon Journal do? Hey, the most impactful high school prospect ever, perhaps, is going to the local team. Hey, guess who? What Beat you're on now. Brianhurst the Cavsby.

[Billy Gill]

But what are you defending him against? Because our show can thank its economy to LeBron James.

[Amin Elhassan]

Sure.

[Billy Gill]

The entirety of our show. Given what South Florida sports has been for 20 years and given what ESPN built for us specifically upon LeBron's arrival in Miami. What are you objecting to? That people have been telling Brian Windhorst is exceptional at his job. Hard stop. Brian Windhorse is an incredibly hard worker. Hard stop. And Brian Windhorse is also disliked because people simply think that he has been at the economy of LeBron since he was young, which he has been. It has been very profitable for a lot of people to be around the economy of LeBron.

[Amin Elhassan]

Brian Wyndhurst exists in this weird space where half the people hate him because, oh, yeah, you hate LeBron. You're always hating on LeBron and the other half of the people hate him. You're always in the tank for your guy LeBron. And when the populace hates you for two completely polar opposite reasons, you know what that means? Sounds like you're pretty fair. And the people who love LeBron are mad when he doesn't say LeBron glazy type stuff. And the people who hate LeBron hate when he's fair. And he says good things about LeBron. Sounds like he's a fair guy. But what I am objecting to, to answer your question, there's three major points of ignorance that seem to get repeated a lot as I'm seeing all of this. Right. Number one is that Brian, like, went to high school with LeBron that somehow, like. And has been kind of just mooching off the kid that. The cool kid that went to high school with me. Right. Which isn't the case. He is a journalist. Right. He's covered the dude for longer than anyone else. Continuously. Right. Number two is that Brian Wyndhurst wrote four books about LeBron. That's weird. Like he's a stalker or something. LeBron is one of the most public figures who draws a lot of attention and has lived a lot of lives right in the time he's been in public space. And so, yeah, there's a lot of material to be written about that. And the guy who has covered him longer than anyone else, of course, would be that. Right. Number three, and this one is the dumbest, perhaps, right. Is that somehow this is Brian's fault. Like, Brian walks around telling people that he's friends with LeBron. I said on threads, I've never seen him, heard him insinuate, even lightly, even gently. And the response is, well, yeah, he's always talking about. He knows what LeBron's thinking. Ipso facto, that's presenting as friends. And I'm like, y'all not know how journalism works? Well, are we at a point where people have a fundamental misunderstanding? Yeah. Yes, yes.

[Billy Gill]

Like, yes, yes.

[Amin Elhassan]

Like the idea that, like, oh, the guy who's covered this guy for damn near 25 years might know something that the rest of you don't. You think that means he's his friend? Or he's presenting as his friend Or a stalker. Or a stalker.

[Stugotz]

Crazy.

[Amin Elhassan]

Like, it just. And it's like ignorance that is repeated. And it's not one person or two people. It's lots of people.

[Billy Gill]

But when you say ignorance is repeated. I've told you this before, and it's one of the most dismaying things, maybe the most dismaying thing about my professional feelings about journalism is that I care about what it is deeply and the minutiae of it. And people do not. They just. And further, furthermore, I can't think of an maybe. Maybe lawyers use car salesmen. I don't. I can't think of an occupation that will get a more visceral reaction from somebody. I don't like that person. Then media, like media, creates a great people. Really. I underestimated how much people hate the media, Dan.

[Amin Elhassan]

I don't want to turn this into the poor media. Right. Defend the media or whatever. I'm just saying, like, it's one thing to say I don't like you. I don't trust you. Your information is wrong. Like, okay, I'm with that. There. There are people, media people that I don't like. I don't trust their information is wrong or it's. It removes context. It is manipulated. Right. That happens. Yeah. What I'm having a problem with is people are like, why is this dude writing books? Like, what do you not understand how any of this works? Like, he's not if he's not his friend. Why he write four books about him. It's just you're. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of, like, how things work. It's not even like, I don't like you or I don't trust the media. It's like, why are you writing books? Is.

[Billy Gill]

But isn't that happening all the times in arguments where there's a confirmation bias on. You want to just reaffirm your feelings.

[Amin Elhassan]

That the next level confirmation bias.

[Stugotz]

I think the thing too. That's weird. Is it like LeBron, like, put voice to it, like, it's. It's different when other media people or people on the Internet are like, oh, Brian Winhorse is so weird. He's always following LeBron. For LeBron to voice that in an interview, that. That's the part to me that was like, man, LeBron, you know Brian, you.

[Amin Elhassan]

Know what the deal is?

[Stugotz]

Like, he's been following. He's been building your lore since you were 17 years old. And all of a sudden now you're gonna switch up and be like, oh, no, he's weird. He's trying to act like he's my best friend. I'm a big fan of Brian Winters. I used to produce his podcast.

[Dan LeBatard]

Very nice guy.

[Billy Gill]

Well, thank you.

[Stugotz]

Friend of mine, actually.

[Amin Elhassan]

That was good.

[Dan LeBatard]

Journalist disclosure from Tony. He has a personal think.

[Stugotz]

Tony, I have a personal relationship.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well done.

[Stugotz]

Thank you. Why don't you think you're friends with Brian Windhorse, Dan?

[Billy Gill]

I just don't know. Well, know him well enough to. I would say we're very friendly, but friends, like, I don't. You know, you got to. You have to. If you have someone who you consider a friend, isn't that a person you've gone to dinner or lunch or coffee with once, like. Or that you've done something socially with them outside of work, isn't that generally where it is that you guys would put friendship or. It's just most of my friends are work friends. So maybe. Maybe that's your trainer. Yes, that's correct.

[Stugotz]

Well, it's different times, right? Like, you get a friends with people you've never actually met with in person. Like Internet texting, relationships. I will say video games. Sure. I don't know if Dan's doing a lot of videos. No, I'm saying other people are friends with people for a long time playing video games.

[Amin Elhassan]

I got Dan do a cod.

[Stugotz]

I will say this. I think. I think if there was like a dinner threesome of Tony, Brian Windhorse and Dan. Dan and Brian Windhorse. Obviously, would have a better time with each other, and Brian would gravitate more towards Dan. Like, he'd consider Dan more of a peer and friend. No disrespect to you, but I think that he would spend more of his time talking to Dan than you. But were there together, all three of us would be. I know. Back and forth, back and forth. I mean, you need a life of the party.

[Amin Elhassan]

Tony's great at doing, like, you know, the jump rope. You jump in and jump out. He's great at that. So I could see Tony holding his own in the three.

[Stugotz]

Oh, my God. We would have a great conversation.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah.

[Billy Gill]

Yesterday, when you guys talk about some of the stuff that happens around Windhorse and journalism and. Do you guys not know how this stuff works? I found myself somewhere in the center of this yesterday, appropriately enough, around the food, because a lot of people were informing me that something that I, quote, unquote, reported was also rebutted by LeBron. And people believe LeBron's side. Now, after Dwayne Wade said it and after Mario Chalmers said it, now LeBron has confirmed it. So this is the only sound I actually want to play from that LeBron and McAfee thing. The plane that we were getting on.

[Amin Elhassan]

The ladies on the plane were making chocolate chip cookies. Oh, yeah. So they knew. Yeah. So they were making them and bringing them, because we had the same ladies all the time. You know, it was a, you know, party of six. You know, they were rotating every time.

[Billy Gill]

They knew I love chocolate chip cookies.

[Amin Elhassan]

So they would get on, and I would, hey, soft, soft, soft, with a little crispy edge. Oh, yeah, Perfect. Yeah, perfect.

[Billy Gill]

And I would get on, and they already knew.

[Amin Elhassan]

They bring me two cookies, and I'll get to gambling with the guys. And I got my cookies, and we good. And then one flight, I got on, I looked at them, and they looked at me, and I'm like, oh, those that look didn't look familiar. And I asked him, I was like, do you. We got the. He was like, no, we're not allowed to. No more cookies on these flights. What?

[Billy Gill]

When Wade county had to leave and.

[Amin Elhassan]

Go to Chicago, I looked at the cookie situation.

[Billy Gill]

I was like, oh, shit.

[Amin Elhassan]

Maybe it wasn't that bad. Yeah. I was like, okay. I mean, D weighs millions and my cookies. I was like, okay, maybe I made it. I was safe. I was like, okay, it wasn't that bad.

[Billy Gill]

So what happened yesterday? Because I had said that never in my life covering the heat had I heard from so many people saying that that story was not true. So people say it and say, see, LeBatard, you're wrong. And I'm like, I don't know if I'm wrong. I know LeBron thinks that this is the reason this happened. That's clearly why he and all of his teammates think the reason this happened is because Pat Riley took away his cookies. But I received calls from a number of people who weren't Pat Riley, because Pat Riley would not care about this, and I sure shit would never ask. Waste his time by asking him about this. I received more calls from people in protection of Pat Riley than I've ever received about anything. And it wasn't because they were wanting me to report that. Why would anybody report about cookies and ice cream? And why would I care one way or the other about cookies and ice cream? They were doing it because they simply, well, I would care about cookies.

[Amin Elhassan]

I was going to say, come on.

[Stugotz]

Air, the trainer's going to be mad about that.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah, that's true. But for some reason, they all pointed out that it was the nutritionist who made that decision, that it was not Pat Riley. And I told you that. And so I was. Was reporting that, sort of with a wink. But a lot of people enjoyed the idea that I might be wrong when those same people are calling me yesterday after LeBron says this and saying it's not true.

[Amin Elhassan]

To be fair. To be fair, Dan, you messed that up that day because you kept focusing on. It wasn't cookies, it was ice cream. And I know you were trying to.

[Billy Gill]

I thought my part was funny.

[Amin Elhassan]

I know. But unfortunately, it took away from the point you wanted to make.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's the same problem we were talking about just a minute ago, which is that we're all sort of confused on what the line is here, what's being reported and what's not being reported.

[Billy Gill]

But I'm telling you, though, that people assume because of what they think of journalism, that that's me speaking through Pat Riley for Pat Riley. And I'm telling you that it wasn't. That. That's not. That's not how any of that came to be. The denial of that story. And the reason that story is being denied is because it's being told 10 years later at a time. Right. I understand why those people are reaching out to me because they heat and crisis, and they see at the end of his career that Pat Riley is being portrayed in a way that's not in any way player friendly like that. That. That is. That is hostile to someone who is valuable, that you don't Want to piss off. And I understand that he players believe that, but there is a real disconnect between whatever it is LeBron thought that was, whatever it is that felt to around his teammates, and who was actually responsible for doing that to LeBron.

[Amin Elhassan]

I think Dan, I want to clarify one thing for everybody listening and say so and so is a mouthpiece for so and so. If you preface the information with people from the Heat reached out to me and they said this, that's not a mouthpiece. I'm just being a messenger. If Dan said it wasn't this, it was a nutritionist and never clarified where you got said information from, that's being a mouthpiece. And I don't think you've ever done that. You made it clear every single time, hey, they hit me up. They. They let me know about this, and I'm merely passing it along. And so this goes for everybody, like when someone presents you information, whether they're a journalist, a former player, whatever, and they're telling you, I spoke to so and so and this is what they said, that doesn't mean that this person is espousing that belief. They're just merely being a mess.

[Billy Gill]

But you're expecting people to. Yes, yeah.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yes, I am. No, but I don't think it's too much to ask people to burn a calorie. A calorie.

[Billy Gill]

It is. You're asking. You're asking them to understand journalism when they hate me.

[Amin Elhassan]

Understand journalism.

[Stugotz]

You also just asked the Heat side, right? Like, you didn't ask Royal Chalmers his thoughts.

[Billy Gill]

I didn't ask anybody anything.

[Amin Elhassan]

They told him.

[Stugotz]

He also didn't need to do that. If he's coming out and saying Heat people called me and said this. He doesn't need to go to the other. The other opinion was already out there.

[Amin Elhassan]

Like, you only need to check multiple sides.

[Stugotz]

If he's reporting it as fact, if.

[Amin Elhassan]

He'S reporting it as fact, if he's passing along what the he. In the same way that when I pass along with RG3 said that he didn't. When he made that tweet, he wasn't talking about Mina. He didn't even see what Mina said. Jeremy, when I said that, rolled his eyes. I'm like, jeremy, I'm not saying, oh, no, he didn't see me. I'm saying that's what he's saying. And there's a difference there, right? Is how it's presented. And so, Dan, if you're saying I'm expecting people, you know what I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, maybe they didn't know because much like a couple years ago we talked about, there's a difference between analyst and reporter. When someone breaks news versus someone says, I think this is bad for the Lakers, whatever. There's a difference in analysis and reporting. There's a difference in opinion and reporting.

[Billy Gill]

It's a distinction that people don't care about.

[Amin Elhassan]

They don't? No. Well, maybe I'm assuming they don't know. And so I.

[Stugotz]

But that's what the problem is with journalism, right? When the same person sometimes is giving you opinion and sometimes is doing journalism.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's exactly what I was going to say. Because there are times, Dan, where you may say something about the Heat and the fans are calling you a mouthpiece because they believe you're saying things that were told to you and you're not making the distinction of when you are and when you aren't. And so I think that it's, it's a really, like Billy said, it's a tricky space. Someone, I mean, ultimately doesn't matter because you have a show, you can say whatever you want on it. But this is the sort of issue with like the blurring of the lines when you're someone who wants to report things and also someone that wants to give their opinions.

[Amin Elhassan]

I don't think there's any blurred line when it comes to Dan. I think Dan says explicitly, the people from the Heat said this. Pat Riley told me that this is how he talks when he's right.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm saying that the audience has to trust that when you're not saying that, you are not being told what to say. And some people in the audience, obviously, whether justified or not, don't think that's the case. And so that's something that, like, you are the only person that knows your own integrity as a reporter and as an analyst. And so you either continue to do it or you don't. But people will always have that question about you because they know you have high up relationships with Miami Heat.

[Amin Elhassan]

Folks, listen up.

[Stugotz]

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[Amin Elhassan]

Not even once.

[Stugotz]

Not even if Mr. Boost Mobile himself asked me to. There is nothing funny about it. Boost Mobile is now a legit nationwide 5G network and also provides coverage across 99% of America. Seriously? Visit boostmobile.com or your nearest Boost Mobile store location to learn more. The Boost Mobile network, together with our roaming partners, covers 99% of the US population. 5G speeds not available in all areas. Wow.

[Amin Elhassan]

What's up?

[Dan LeBatard]

I just bought and financed a car.

[Stugotz]

Through Carvana in minutes.

[Dan LeBatard]

You, the person who agonized four weeks over whether to paint your walls eggshell or off white, bought and financed a car in minutes. They made it easy.

[Stugotz]

Transparent terms, customizable.

[Dan LeBatard]

Down and monthly.

[Billy Gill]

Didn't even have to do any paperwork.

[Dan LeBatard]

Wow. Mm. Hey, have you checked out that spreadsheet I sent you for our dinner? Options Finance your car with Carvana and experience total control financing subject to credit approval.

[Billy Gill]

Don LeBatard.

[Amin Elhassan]

The HOY is Captain Slappy.

[Billy Gill]

Stugats is this chum bucket?

[Stugotz]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the stugats. I think Dan is being attacked here unnecessarily. When we've lost focus of the real situation. Either LeBron's a liar or Pat Riley's a liar. And we need to right now vote on who is a liar. Put it on the poll. Who's a liar, LeBron or Pat Riley? Because the cookies were being made. There was a group of six people making these cookies, and then at some point they stopped making the cookies. We're told a nutritionist may or may not have been involved and may have been the decision maker on the removing of the cookies and or possibly Ice cream from the plane. I say that nutritionist should have been fired immediately. If you cost your team LeBron James because you stopped putting cookies and ice cream on a plane, hit the road, Jack or Jacqueline.

[Billy Gill]

Well, let me ask you guys this question, because the cookies and ice cream came back the very next time that LeBron wanted them. Do you believe if Pat Riley ordered that, that that's how that would have gone?

[Stugotz]

Absolutely not.

[Billy Gill]

Like, if pat Riley. If LeBron is right. And look, I'm not. I'm not interested in a liar. Although I was really surprised to see Stephen A. Smith to simply call LeBron a liar on ESPN's airwaves because it's not something I've seen him do before. And when you say blurring the distinction between reporting and analysis, I have not seen. I'm gonna try and think about this. If I've ever seen someone of Stephen A's stature, say in this scenario, call someone like that a liar. That's something you see in the lower standard form of sports radio from people who aren't Stephen A. Smith.

[Amin Elhassan]

It's one of the first things Dan taught me. He said, don't call people a liar. Just say he's lying. Right.

[Billy Gill]

The action, not the behavior. Yes. Not the person. Because you're attacking the character of somebody there. And. And it's just maybe I'm wrong about this answer for me. Have you guys, in all the time you've been listening to Stephen A. Because maybe he has done this, have you heard him say of someone, that person is a liar? Because I have not. And so I was a little alarmed to see the stakes escalated to a point. If we need to keep pushing the boundaries on entertainment, if we keep. Need to getting. If we keep needing clicks, if you're aging in an industry where you have to keep up and you have to continue to be ahead of everyone else. And you are Stephen A. Smith, a conqueror. You keep pushing the line toward places where it becomes what a mean of all people is. Pearl clutching on Commissioner, please save me from the content.

[Stugotz]

So I haven't heard. I'm trying to think of what I've ever heard Stephen A. Smith call people not a liar. I've heard him say, stay off the weed. I said somebody. He said somebody was on crack, but never a liar. Lamar Odoman, who was on crack.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah. You know, it's funny you say that, Dan. Has he ever called anyone a liar? And look, I don't believe in calling people liars. I criticize actions and behaviors. I don't criticize People's character. But if there were ever someone that we could accuse of being a liar, and there should be probably, like, I could see it, wouldn't it be LeBron? Is that the joke?

[Dan LeBatard]

The joke is, like, that's the whole meme. Yeah. Like, he's pretend. Like, you could see what was going to happen before it happened.

[Amin Elhassan]

Oh, I was watching Kobe warm up, and I swear I told. I turned around and told her, oh, I think he's just got 81 today. Like. Like, come on, man. Like, if there was anybody that this could be a legitimate thing thrown at.

[Stugotz]

What's the semantics of. I'm not going to say that someone's a liar. I'm going to say that they're lying. Like, if someone's cheating, are they a cheater? No, I would not go that far. I'm just saying they're cheating. Like, what's the difference?

[Amin Elhassan]

The semantics is if, like, in this case, Stephen A. Smith says that what LeBron is saying is a lie. So if I say he's lying, I'm focal. I'm focusing it to just this right versus he's a liar. That makes it mean. Every day of his life, he walked around lying to people, which all of us do, by the way.

[Stugotz]

That's pathological lying. I mean, I feel like if you lie, you're a liar.

[Dan LeBatard]

I think the distinctions, if you're writing it and you can get sued.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah.

[Billy Gill]

Put it on the poll, please, at LeBatard show. If you lie. If you lie one time, are you a liar?

[Stugotz]

And Also, who's lying? LeBron or Pat Riley is an important one.

[Amin Elhassan]

Or the nutritionist.

[Stugotz]

A long, long time ago, Dan was a prodigy, and his writing used to make him smile. And he knew if he had his chance, he. He'd rat out, um, for bogus Pell Grants and maybe learn from Cody for a while. But network money made him sell his soul now he shows all his bias to the Heat and now the Panthers. Dan's fake news oh, have you heard? I can't remember if he cried when Danny told us with his face so wide that all his morals were a lie the day journalism.

[Amin Elhassan]

Died.

[Stugotz]

So Dan.

[Billy Gill]

Was saying, oh, my, how I'd love.

[Stugotz]

To eat pie oh, but if it has some gluten then I think I may die I'll shoot my integrity straight into the sky Bangin Panthers drums As a Cuban born guy Panthers drums As.

[Amin Elhassan]

A Cuban born guy.

[Billy Gill]

Billy, I need your help with something here because I. I found that my lack of enthusiasm for our March Sadness Tournament is something that has crippled the last couple of years of tournaments that we have thrown together. Can we update our March Sadness tournament, which I believe is aggressively trying to annoy me?

[Stugotz]

No, I don't think that's the case. But I will say this not aggressively. Passive aggressively, maybe, at best, not aggressively. This round, we sent out a new prompt, and if truth be told, so that, you know, we keep the trains on the tracks and we got everything moving, we sent out both prompts. We sent out the elite eight and the sweet sixteen prompts at the same time so that we would have them ready to go. So you can vote today and tomorrow, and then the next round, you can vote on Saturday and Sunday. This round is the sweet 16. We had two rounds last weekend, and every time we have to, you know, send out a new prompt. So what we were trying to do was send out timely prompts, prompts that, you know, would connect fans to the show so that people, you know, are watching the show, they're interacting, and then we keep it up to date. We don't just want to send things like, what's your favorite show moment? Why would you do that? It's a terrible prompt that we would send out. So this week's prompt was, what is the worst part of the life?

[Billy Gill]

What is the worst part of the life? You know, just put your nose to.

[Stugotz]

The grindstone and like, stugats. Hope one day the police don't show.

[Amin Elhassan]

Up at my front door with a search warrant.

[Stugotz]

Wait a minute. Warrant?

[Amin Elhassan]

Warrant.

[Stugotz]

R A N T. Give it to me. The March Sadness Fan versus fan tournament.

[Amin Elhassan]

More like the Billy is mailing it in Tournament.

[Stugotz]

Watch a game with Levitard.

[Amin Elhassan]

The only thing Dan has in common.

[Stugotz]

With a basketball is that they're both round. Sorry, Dan. What do the letters in Adam stand for? Annoys Dan. April 7, March sadness.

[Amin Elhassan]

Watch along collision course. Poppy, what do you say to the remaining fans who think they can beat me?

[Stugotz]

They can kiss my own Cuban ass.

[Billy Gill]

Give it to me again.

[Stugotz]

Hi, it's Mike from Baltimore. The worst part of the life is not always getting to share the things we enjoy with others. My wife and I, we love swinging. We'd like to share that with others. But when we asked the neighbors if they want it to swing, they said no. When we asked the kids of the community if they wanted to swing, their parents said it was time for them to go eat dinner, even though it was only 3pm so vote for me if you want me to show Dan how to swing. Oh, damn, man, that guy is incredible. He's got On a run. He showed us his hole the first time, his bush the second time, and now he's showing us his swing.

[Dan LeBatard]

There you go.

[Stugotz]

Yeah.

[Amin Elhassan]

What seed was he originally?

[Stugotz]

I think he's a 12.

[Dan LeBatard]

Wow.

[Stugotz]

Cinderella title.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah, man. The 12 seed.

[Dan LeBatard]

Whole and Bush.

[Stugotz]

Yeah. Mike from Baltimore.

[Dan LeBatard]

Nice.

[Stugotz]

Wait till you see what he does. The Elite eight. Dan. You guys are gonna have fun.

[Billy Gill]

You got him winning.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, I do. Again, it's fan voting, and he's gonna sit right next to you.

[Billy Gill]

I heard when this was being discussed the first time. Okay. I heard. I heard Billy enjoying. He didn't know I was hearing this and not enjoying it. I heard Billy enjoying the idea of fans being able to vote just learning on their own, figuring it out on their own that the person who needs to win is the one that Dan would least like to spend four hours with. And I'm someone who loves our fans, like, more than any of you guys. I actually spend time with these people, talking to them for hours, the way you do not.

[Stugotz]

What are you talking about?

[Amin Elhassan]

Excuse me. Nobody. Nobody. I'm gonna say this right now. Nobody spends more time with the fans than I do.

[Stugotz]

Oh, fan off. Okay.

[Amin Elhassan]

Nobody spends more time than I do with the pants. Every time we have these events, I'm there. You guys are off. Like, you go to your little cordon sections. Not me. I'm in gen pop. I'm hanging out with them. I'm getting drinks with them. I'm doing shot. Every time they say, I mean, let's do a shot.

[Stugotz]

Well, that's.

[Amin Elhassan]

You think I want to do the shot? I don't want to do the shot. I don't want to do the shot.

[Billy Gill]

What you do?

[Amin Elhassan]

I don't. I just want to have a nice sip. But you know what? Let's do a shot. And you know what they always say? What do you want to do? You know what I always say back? Whatever you want to do. Because I don't want to be like, I'd like. You know, it's whatever they want to do. And usually they support the sponsors who support us. So it's usually Cuervo or Smirnoff or anyone or Evan Williams or any one of the fine brands that we do. But the point is, I don't scurry off back behind the velvet rope up in my Shangri La, looking down on everybody from my ivory tower like, look at these peasants. They've come to worship me. Hold on. Let me let them touch the hem of my garment. I don't do that.

[Stugotz]

You just compared Them to criminals. You said you spend time with them in Gen Pop.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah, Gen Pop. Because I'm the general population. That's what Gen Pop stands for. It's not prison. Someone has misinformed you, my friend.

[Billy Gill]

I just want to be clear on how it is you have me doing this. You have me in a fine robe, in some fabric of what is it? Silk? I just want to be clear.

[Stugotz]

Fine linens.

[Billy Gill]

I'm behind a velvet rope. I'm in Shangri La. High atop an ivory. A tower made of ivory.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yes. And you're looking down. But it's not just you. It's a lot of other characters in this room right here. I'm not gonna name it.

[Billy Gill]

So it was. It was interesting.

[Dan LeBatard]

We have had some incidents in the past.

[Stugotz]

We got a crazy letter today.

[Dan LeBatard]

You normally have a space to go to.

[Amin Elhassan]

Now, hold on. By the way, should we bring that back? The guy that snuck in that infiltrated the island.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's not even the worst of them.

[Amin Elhassan]

There was someone worse than that dude.

[Billy Gill]

Okay, I did flip flops. I do not want to call our.

[Dan LeBatard]

We thought he was Cody's friend.

[Billy Gill]

The most loyal I've seen in this Gen Pop. I don't.

[Amin Elhassan]

I'm part of them. I'm in the general population. That's what Gen Pop stands for.

[Billy Gill]

It doesn't make it any better that you're a fellow prisoner. You're calling our listeners criminals who don't deserve freedom. Like that's. And I'd like you to not do that while saying that you're better with the fans than all of us are.

[Amin Elhassan]

One of my favorite jokes that did not make the final cut of the Akbar Devistique bit was I asked Fuentes, what's that? I pointed at the Freedom Tower. He's like, oh, that's a Freedom Tower. I said, oh, freedom. Well, we don't know.

[Billy Gill]

Hello?

[Amin Elhassan]

Bad. Very bad.

[Stugotz]

Wait, that was a bit.

[Dan LeBatard]

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