Hour 1: Bad Talkers & Bad Benny (feat. Jonathan Zachlowe)

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Episode: Hour 1: Bad Talkers & Bad Benny (feat. Jonathan Zach Lowe)
Date: February 3, 2026

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Episode Overview

Broadcasting from the Elser Hotel in Downtown Miami, Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, Greg Cody, Jonathan Zach Lowe, and the crew dive into a freewheeling hour where sports, pop culture, and media coverage intersect. This episode riffs on the awkwardness of NFL news priorities, memorable yet bizarre moments at the Grammys, the cultural stature of Bad Bunny (or "Bad Benny," according to Goodell), and the persistent struggles of bland sports personalities. The conversation also takes a thoughtful turn examining the Rooney Rule and ongoing issues surrounding diversity in NFL coaching hires.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Prioritization of NFL News: Belichick vs. the Epstein Files

Timestamp: 00:57 – 03:01

• Stugotz comments on ESPN’s odd headline order, with Bill Belichick’s Hall of Fame status ranked over the NFL investigating Giants' owner Steve Tisch’s Epstein ties.
  • "It is above NFL to look into Tish's Epstein files connections... It’s because of the difficulty of talking in sports about anything Epstein related." (Stugotz, 01:09)
• Dan Le Batard notes Tisch’s prominent Hollywood productions and how discussions of sports ownership entanglements are skirted in mainstream media.
  • "As soon as there's a factor like... you gotta ask Goodell about that... this has to be a scandal that engulfs the owner of the New York Giants." (Stugotz, 02:51)
• Dan boils down Tisch’s Epstein defense using an “It’s Always Sunny” reference, mocking the nonchalance of the legal explanation.

2. Grammy Awards: Pop Culture Oddities and Bad Bunny’s Rise

Timestamp: 03:20 – 08:07

• The crew share reactions to Grammy performances, focusing on wardrobe choices (Justin Bieber’s underwear, Lady Gaga’s “wicker basket helmet").
  • "When I saw Justin Bieber's performance, I didn't even hear the song because I'm just mesmerized by what this guy is or isn't wearing..." (Jonathan Zach Lowe, 03:38)
• Dan praises Bieber’s comeback performance and affectionate cutaways.
• Discussion shifts to Bad Bunny’s historic Album of the Year win (first Spanish-language album) and rumors that he wears a bulletproof vest due to threats.
  • "I saw an IG reel that has me convinced he does indeed wear a bulletproof vest..." (Dan Le Batard, 05:56)
• There's a bit about Trevor Noah trying to coax Bad Bunny into performing at the Grammys despite Super Bowl contract restrictions.
  • “He was trying to get Bad Bunny to perform even a snippet, which would have been against his NFL contract…” (Jonathan Zach Lowe, 06:32)
• The segment closes with speculation on whether Bad Bunny will wear a vest on stage at the Super Bowl, which the crew sardonically polls their listeners about.

3. Roger Goodell’s “Bad Benny” Blunder

Timestamp: 07:36 – 08:45

• The group plays Roger Goodell’s remarks about choosing Bad Bunny for Super Bowl halftime, during which he refers to him as “Bad Benny.”
  • “How did he pronounce his name at the beginning? Bad Benny.” (Stugotz, 08:15)
• The panel gives Goodell a partial pass, noting Bad Bunny's real name is Benito, but still rib him for the mispronunciation.
  • “They're gonna not gonna introduce you as your stage name. It's embarrassing for sure.” (Dan Le Batard, 08:26)
  • “‘Bad Benny’... His real name's not Bad Bunny. Bad Bunny.” (Jonathan Zach Lowe, 08:32)
• Stugotz jokes about his own inability to get names right.

4. The “Boring Off”: Sam Darnold, Mike MacDonald, and Dull NFL Talkers

Timestamp: 09:42 – 12:58

• Jonathan Zach Lowe shares trivia about Sam Darnold’s grandfather, Dick Hammer, a former Marlboro Man actor, sparking a round of childish jokes and references to the “ghost of Dick Hammer.”
• The show turns to a lighthearted competition for the dullest NFL figure: Sam Darnold, coach Mike MacDonald, and even Bill Belichick at his press conference peak.
  • “We found the most boring dude.” (Dan Le Batard, 11:41)
  • "Who's more boring? We got to be able to find somebody more boring." (Greg Cody, 11:46)
• Discussion of media day failures and how some NFL personalities struggle to generate intrigue.

5. The Rooney Rule: Diversity and its Limitations

Timestamp: 21:39 – 27:51

• Stugotz raises the challenge of fixing the Rooney Rule amid ongoing lack of minority NFL head coaches.
  • “When Roger Goodell is being asked, he’s saying we've got a lot of work to do... What just ends up happening every single time is a white owner ends up getting into interviews with people he either knows or commonalities…” (Stugotz, 21:44)
• Dan critiques sham interviews and the cyclical nature of NFL diversity efforts—calling many interviews “just bullshit.”
  • “It's just bullshit interviews that honestly are insulting 20 years in…” (Dan Le Batard, 22:59)
• Jonathan Zach Lowe observes that repeated interviewing can incrementally help the careers of minority candidates (“In the long term, it does help…”).
• Chris and Dan note the issue that nearly all Black coaching candidates are on the defensive side ("There aren't black offensive coordinators.").
• Dan points out systemic forces, like head coaches only hiring people within their (overwhelmingly white) circles, and how even strong draft-pick incentives haven’t shifted the owner’s behavior.
  • “They're incentivizing... the most valuable thing. We'll give you draft picks. Just do this. Please, help us here. And they still can't fix it.” (Dan Le Batard, 26:09)
• Panel concludes that change will likely require a new generation of owners more accustomed to diversity.

6. Star Power—or Lack Thereof—in the Super Bowl

Timestamp: 29:47 – 40:41

• The hosts lament the lack of compelling personalities and storylines in this year’s Super Bowl matchup (Patriots vs. Seahawks).
  • "You need storylines... Sam Darnold's got an interesting story. I don't know that as a quarterback, he's someone necessarily that you're super interested in hearing talk.” (Dan Le Batard, 31:16)
• Discussion of NFL’s historic reliance on a few superstar faces (Brady, Manning, Mahomes), and the league’s current era of transition.
• The group debates what makes sports compelling—patriotism, underdog stories, and athletic history topping the list of factors that make fans emotionally invest in sporting events.
  • “If you want me to get swept up in something where I'm emotional... patriotism first and... underdog story.” (Dan Le Batard, 34:05)
• With both Super Bowl teams being unexpected preseason picks, Dan finds it odd that fans don’t seem engaged by this underdog matchup.
• Stugotz points out that despite high preseason odds ("60-1 and 80-1"), neither team is a true underdog in the classic sense due to their organizational histories.

7. Bad Bunny’s Pop Culture Supremacy

Timestamp: 39:36 – 40:24

• The hosts facetiously declare Bad Bunny ("Bad Benny") to be the biggest star at the Super Bowl—bigger than any player, even LeBron James or Lionel Messi.
  • "Bad Benny... Who is the biggest star at the Super Bowl?" (Dan Le Batard, 40:00)
  • "Put it on the poll... Who’s a bigger star, Bad Benny or LeBron?" (Stugotz, 40:09)
• They anticipate a ratings peak at the halftime show due to Bad Bunny’s immense popularity.

8. The Evolution of Exciting Super Bowls

Timestamp: 40:41 – 42:08

• Dan and Jonathan Zach Lowe reminisce about how recent Super Bowls have been unusually close and dramatic compared to earlier blowouts.
  • "It seems like I covered a lot of 38–10s... there were some really lopsided Super Bowls, but you’re right, the league itself is now so parity soaked that every game’s close..." (Jonathan Zach Lowe, 41:35)
• Dan credits recent matchups (Chiefs-Eagles, Chiefs-49ers, Rams-Bengals) with keeping audiences engaged.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Stugotz on media avoidance:
  "It is above NFL to look into Tish's Epstein files connections... It's because of the difficulty of talking in sports about anything Epstein related." (01:09)
• Jonathan Zach Lowe on the Grammys:
  "When I saw Justin Bieber's performance, I didn't even hear the song because I'm just mesmerized by what this guy is or isn't wearing..." (03:38)
• Dan Le Batard on NFL incentives:
  “They're incentivizing... the most valuable thing. We'll give you draft picks. Just do this. Please, help us here. And they still can't fix it.” (26:09)
• Jonathan Zach Lowe, tongue-in-cheek:
  “Dick Hammer was the late great grandfather of Super Bowl quarterback Sam Darnold... Dick Hammer died of lung cancer. Not linking that to cigarettes. Just sort of presuming.” (10:25)
• Greg Cody on dull personalities:
  “See, even the stories about him [MacDonald] are boring.” (16:53)
• Dan Le Batard on sports rooting interests:
  "If you want me to get swept up in something where I'm emotional... patriotism first and... underdog story.” (34:05)
• On Bad Bunny’s star power:
  "Who is the biggest star at the Super Bowl?... Bad Benny." (40:00)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Epstein Files vs. NFL Headlines: 00:57 – 03:01
• Grammys Recap & Bad Bunny Discussion: 03:20 – 08:07
• Roger Goodell’s “Bad Benny” Gaffe: 07:36 – 08:45
• Dick Hammer Trivia & NFL’s Boring Figures: 09:42 – 12:58
• Rooney Rule and NFL Diversity: 21:39 – 27:51
• Super Bowl Star Power Dialogue: 29:47 – 40:41
• Bad Bunny’s Super Bowl Dominance: 39:36 – 40:24
• Recent Super Bowl Closeness: 40:41 – 42:08

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Tonal Highlights

• The episode is fast-paced, irreverent, and filled with sharp wit and inside jokes.
• The crew alternates between playful trash talk, pop culture commentary, and candid criticism of the NFL’s systemic issues.
• There’s a consistent undercurrent of self-awareness—mocking not just the sports world but themselves for recycling stories and referencing their own show antics.

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Summary

Even for those who missed the episode, this hour capably blends sports with pop culture, delivering both thoughtful critique (on the NFL’s diversity failures and media priorities) and classic Le Batard zaniness (from “Dick Hammer” to “Bad Benny”). Listeners get a sense of the Super Bowl’s stakes—not just on the field, but for the wider cultural and media conversation.

Transcript

[Dan LeBatard]

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[Stugotz]

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[Dan LeBatard]

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[Stugotz]

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[Dan LeBatard]

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[Stugotz]

Terms and exclusions apply. This is the Dan Levator show with.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

The ST Podcast.

[Greg Cody]

Folks. Listen up. You think you've got the boldest take of the week or would you like love advice from Greg Cody? We want to do something fun for Valentine's Day with Greg Cody. If you have the boldest take of the week or you want love advice, send in those hot takes or send in those questions. Call 305 for four eight, six, gotts.

[Stugotz]

We're gonna get to some Roger Goodell sound here in a second, but I did find I don't know that I'm gonna say funny, but when I saw the ESPN headlines on ESPN.com and they put them in the order of interest and importance. Belichick will eventually be a Hall of Famer is and I understand how and why this happens, but think about how silly it is that this happens. It is above NFL to look into Tish's Epstein files connections. So you have an NFL owner who's in the Epstein files all over the place. Like he made. I think what were the movies he made? He made. Oh man, did he he made the Tom Cruise movie Risky Business, for example. It was one of the movies really that yeah. That Tish helped produce. He didn't direct it, but he's made I think he did he make Forrest Gump think Really? I I, I think he made Forest Gump. Maybe you guys can check that for me to to make sure. But it's because of the difficulty of talking in sports about anything Epstein related.

[Dan LeBatard]

Also Soul man, you remember that flick?

[Stugotz]

Yeah.

[Dan LeBatard]

You know what that one was about?

[Stugotz]

Would never get made today.

[Dan LeBatard]

Ooh, Equalizer 2 and 3. Oh, Equalizer 2 was great. Equalizer 3 was fun too. Based in Italy.

[Stugotz]

The larger point I'm making that Goodell saying that Belichick will get eventually get into the hall of Fame in no world should be higher in terms of news value than the other story. But good luck finding people able to talk in the media about the idea that the New York Giant in the sports media that the owner of the New York Giants needs to be run out. As soon as there's a factor like, you gotta ask Goodell about that. He was asked about it, among other things. And if any of this is even any semblance of true, this has to be a scandal that engulfs the owner of the New York Giant.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, I think so far his explanation, and I'm boiling it down. Don't take this as a direct quote, but that legal adult went off me coach was basically his excuse. That grown woman was at play there. It wasn't some of the other stuff, which is a real Frank Reynolds, it's always sunny excuse.

[Stugotz]

The Goodell sound from yesterday that a lot of people are noticing. See if you notice here what happens when Roger Goodell is talking about Bad Bunny's speech at the Grammys. Did you watch the Grammys, Greg?

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

I did.

[Stugotz]

What did you like about the Grammys? Was there anything in there that you like?

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

I liked most of it. There was some weird stuff. I mean, when I saw Justin Bieber's performance, I didn't even hear the song because I'm just mesmerized by what this guy is or isn't wearing and why he's doing it. It was just bizarre. And then Lady Gaga's in a wicker basket helmet. I mean, those were two great performances. I thought they were great. They were. And Gaga, they were memorable. They were memorable.

[Greg Cody]

Why was Bieber in his underwear?

[Dan LeBatard]

Laying it all bare? Yeah, it worked. And the shots to his wife.

[Chris]

That's what he wore.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Yes.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, it was. It was a. It was literally a stripped down performance called art. Yeah, it was pretty good. You should recreate that.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Golden there.

[Dan LeBatard]

I think that was honestly, like, Bieber's best in a really. I couldn't agree more. One of the coolest performances he's had on an award show. Yeah, that album was a bit of a comeback for him. And that was, you know, a really cool moment for a dude that's kind of needed some, like, positive stuff out there.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Right. What'd you think of Bruno Mars? He's also making a comeback.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, it's more of the same. I like Bruno. Bruno's fun. Always. I like the Grammys. I think the Grammys are always like pop culture encapsulations. I like being confused. Who's this person? I like discovering new ones. I kind of embrace sometimes that I feel a little bit old watching it, and it forces me to set my game up. And I got other acts that aren't on the televised portion of the broadcast that I'm super into. I'm a big turnstile guy saw that they won awards. I like the clips. I like that they had talk about the Epstein files, although he kind of knew that he was on a plane with Elon.

[Stugotz]

I am not the person to talk, given that I just made a reference that was more than 200 years old. But old guy watching the Grammys and saying, as an observation, what are they wearing? Is just perfect. Like, what? What, what? Bieber. The artist. Yeah. The music. Yeah.

[Chris]

That way.

[Stugotz]

Why is he in his under.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Stugotz]

Wares.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Okay. I thought about that the same way I think watching the Met Gala. Okay. I get that it's performance art. I get all that. It doesn't mean that I can't make fun of a woman wearing a wicker.

[Stugotz]

But you didn't make fun of it. It was your only observation. When I asked you what you think of the Grammys, those two people were wearing those things.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Right. That's what stands out to me. When I think of the Grammys, I think of what visually stands out. One was Justin Bieber, what he wasn't wearing. And the other was Gaga's hat. That's just me.

[Dan LeBatard]

I thought Bad Bunny winning album of the year. The first ever Spanish language album of the year. And having those moments. I also saw an IG reel that has me convinced he does indeed wear a bulletproof vest because of all the threats that he's been receiving. Because he was kind of moving strangely at that. Like the way that it was tailored, it was kind of weird. And there's this whole IG reel that he's, like, wearing bulletproof vests now because of all the threats that he's receiving.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

I thought it was interesting watching Trevor Noah try to get. Trevor. Isn't that his name?

[Dan LeBatard]

Yes, but he's from South Africa, so I think.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

No, he was.

[Dan LeBatard]

They pronounce it Trevor.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

He was trying to get Bad Bunny to perform even a snippet, which would have been against his NFL contract with the Super Bowl. And he.

[Dan LeBatard]

Right.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Yeah. And he finally did. He was a bit.

[Greg Cody]

It was a whole bit he did where he's like, hey, can you perform? He's like, I can't. And he's like. And then, like, he really can't. Trevor started singing his songs, trying to.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Get him to sing, and he's saying, like, two or three words of his song. So I hope that doesn't put it on the poll.

[Stugotz]

Please. At Lebatard show. Do you think Bad Bunny will wear a bulletproof vest during his super bowl performance? Because you would assume not. Wow, that's dark.

[Dan LeBatard]

Too much gyrating happening. You can't wear a bulletproof dress wall.

[Stugotz]

But I'm surprised by what Mike's saying there. And unsurprised.

[Dan LeBatard]

Again, alleged. That's not confirmed. Yeah, it was a highly convincing IG reel. And that's where 90% of Americans get their news these days.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, that's correct. And in these troubled times, when Roger Goodell is being asked if there will be ice operations around the super bowl this week, you can believe just about anything when it comes to safety and people being afraid for their lives. But let's.

[Chris]

Let's get ro.

[Stugotz]

Roger Goodell's thoughts, specifically on Bad Bunny having politics in his speech about ice at the Grammys.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Listen, Bad Bunny was, and I think.

[Dan LeBatard]

That was demonstrated last night, one of.

[Stugotz]

The great artists in the world. And that's one of the reasons we chose him. But the other reason is he understood the platform he was on and that this was. This platform is to use to unite people and to be able to bring.

[Dan LeBatard]

People together with their creativity, with their.

[Stugotz]

Talents, and to be able to use this moment to do that.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

And I think artists in casts have done that.

[Stugotz]

I think Bad Bunny understands it, and I think he'll have a great performance at the end. He cleaned it up. But how did he pronounce his name at the beginning?

[Dan LeBatard]

Bad Benny. To be fair to Raj, by the way, Benito's his name, so maybe he's introduced him as Benito.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Dan LeBatard]

They're gonna not gonna introduce you as your. As your stage name. It's embarrassing for sure.

[Greg Cody]

A mistake he made that can be cleaned up that way.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Bad Benny. His real name's not Bad Bunny. Bad Bunny.

[Stugotz]

He did get it right at the end. And again, I'm in no position to make fun of anybody getting names wrong.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Bad Benny.

[Stugotz]

I can't believe I made an Ichabod Crane reference. I'm still reeling from that.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's the best part of the show, Dan. Don't be upset.

[Stugotz]

I have in front of me Sam Amick, okay? He's an excellent reporter as well. He says as of Monday evening, the offers coming the bucks way for the Greek freak were still believed to be so underwhelming in the eyes of rival ex executives and agents that this saga looked likely to extend into the summer. That reporting comes off of the heels of what it is that Zach Lowe said.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Jonathan Zach Lowe.

[Greg Cody]

He's cooking.

[Dan LeBatard]

I have no opinion on it.

[Mike Ryan]

You get it?

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm warming up to it.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Though. Thank you. It grows.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah. No, it was funny.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Dan LeBatard]

Good stuff.

[Stugotz]

Jonathan Zach Lowe.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Stugotz]

Have you checked out since you're back in my day because you really hit a while you hit it out of the park with your back in my day and reputationally over the years generally once you. Yeah. What Tony just did now that was the hand coming down as a plane crashing. What generally happens if I go to back in my day too early in the show. What I get the rest of the show is something in the form of Jonathan Zach low and then you're amused with satisfied.

[Dan LeBatard]

Been 30 minutes pass. He hasn't said anything.

[Chris]

This is like bonus show for him is what it is.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

I got a material left. I mean I. You know, I could. I could tell you all about Dick Hammer.

[Mike Ryan]

Go on.

[Stugotz]

Let's follow this thread.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Dick Hammer was an actor in the late 50s to 60s who portrayed the Marlboro man on TV cigarette ads. Ironically. Not really. Dick Hammer died of lung cancer. Not linking that to cigarettes. Just sort of presuming. Dick Hammer is the late great grandfather of super bowl quarterback Sam Darnold. How about that? I ain't making it up. You can look it up.

[Stugotz]

No, I know we've talked about it before. You just wanted to say Dick Hammer.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

I love that name.

[Stugotz]

I mean ghost. What is that sound? Is that the ghost?

[Greg Cody]

I'm not hitting anything.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Is that creepy?

[Stugotz]

Is that the ghost of Dick Hammer.

[Dan LeBatard]

Might be haunting us?

[Stugotz]

You've got to admit that you just wanted to say Dick Hammer. If his father or his grandfather had merely been the former Marlboro Marlboro man, that too would have been interesting. But you just wanted to say Dick Hammer.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Hammer time.

[Dan LeBatard]

There's a couple interesting things about Sam Darnold. Just none of them are Sam Darnold.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, well, Mike McDonald is the world's least interesting person.

[Dan LeBatard]

He might be the most boring. We've done it, ladies and gentlemen. We found the most boring dude.

[Greg Cody]

It's a boring off. Who's more boring? We got to be able to find somebody more boring.

[Dan LeBatard]

Frable's got some juice to him. I like that. But Drake may pretty boring.

[Greg Cody]

Sam Darnold, Mike McDonald combo quarterback coach.

[King Jimmy]

Wow.

[Stugotz]

I mean Belichick Brady was pretty bad.

[Dan LeBatard]

At least in terms of talkers are good.

[Stugotz]

Look as talkers not this bad though.

[Greg Cody]

At least Belichick would at least arm around the Cincinnati like he'd at least like give us something that we would replay.

[Stugotz]

You think Mike McDonald is appreciably more boring as a talker than Bill Belichick?

[Greg Cody]

I think the defense that Bill Belichick would play against press conferences was interesting.

[Stugotz]

Whereas 20 years. Because you got so bored with everything he was doing that after 20 years, you're just.

[Greg Cody]

You can't say Mike McDonald is, like, actually answering questions, but it's just like, nothing I want to listen to. Like, I'll never. Like, there were some clips of Mike McDonald from, you know, radio Row, their media day last night. There's nothing I can't believe even remotely interesting.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's staggering. It's staggering that he doesn't say interesting things outside of the fact that he doesn't see his son outside of 30 minutes a week.

[Greg Cody]

Oh, wait, damn, that one.

[Dan LeBatard]

That one was interesting. But the way that he delivered it was an accident. Yeah, it was a mistake, and he's learned from it already.

[King Jimmy]

Guys, let me tell you something. One of the greatest joys of my life was when they finally opened the White Castle in my neighborhood in Phoenix, Arizona. I lost my mind because I'm so used to eating White Castle at home when I was in New York. Now I can have all the time in Phoenix, but when I come to Miami, there's no White Castle. So you know what I do? Go to the freezer aisle, because right there, they got the variety pack with all the great White Castle flavor in there. You're getting a lot of slider styles. You're getting classic American cheese, you're getting jalapeno cheese. And if you're a bacon lover, you're getting that new cheddar bacon cheese sliders. The classic cheese gives you all the taste of a great American burger, while jalapeno cheese sliders give a serving of spicy to each bite. And the new cheddar bacon cheese, that literally brings home the bacon, folks. With real pieces of bacon and cheddar flavored cheese. Guys, I know what you're thinking. Your mouth is watering. My mouth is watering just reading this. That's completely normal. You can find each of these sliders where? In the grocery store, in the freezer aisle. Bonus. They're all in the same box. You don't even have to get four boxes. No, it's one variety box. It's got them all in it. Perfect for game day, late nights or anytime you just want something awesomely oniony, satisfying, steamy, and unapologetically cheesy. White Castle. Crave thy castle.

[Stugotz]

Love the night.

[Dan LeBatard]

Reach for Zyn After Dark, a limited cocktail inspired series. For those who get up when the sun goes down, try Zinn's Mojito Spiced Cider and Espresso Martini. Nicotine pouches. Find them at select retailers.

[Stugotz]

Available while supplies last. Zynn after dark. Bring on the night. Warning. This product contains nicotine.

[Dan LeBatard]

Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

[Greg Cody]

Listen up, folks. It's game day and you already know what that means. The noise, the jerseys, the group chats, going crazy. I'm telling you, no game day is complete without the world's number one vodka. You know that. That is Smirnoff. We're talking easy cocktails, tons of flavors, perfect for every kind of fan over 21. Whether you're riding with your squad, watching from home, or celebrating like your team already won the first quarter, Smirnoff is the official vodka partner of the NFL. It's award winning, and it's been bringing people together since 1864, which is basically forever. Smirnoff does game days. Big energy, big moments, big wins. Hopefully. Grab a bottle of Smirnoff at your local retailer and head to smirnoff.com to find a cocktail recipe perfect for game day. Please drink responsibly. Smirnoff, number 21 vodka distilled from grain, 40% alcohol by volume. The Smirnoff Company, New York, New York. Please don't share with anyone under legal drinking age. Now let's get back to arguing about refs.

[Stugotz]

Don LeBatard.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Quiet, man. Yes. You know, I'm a married man. I don't cheat on my wife. Despite that gratuitous line in back in my stugats, I wish you were here. My wife, I really miss her. No, I don't. That's the thing about being married, you know, you're not allowed to say, I don't miss my wife. I've been gone two days. I haven't been gone long enough to miss my wife. I'm sorry. I call her. I'm just going with her. 30 seconds. You know, hello. All right, all right, we'll see you.

[Stugotz]

All right.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

And then, you know, I'm going to see her in two days. I was jumping Charlie.

[Dan LeBatard]

Good.

[Stugotz]

This is the D. Levatar show with the st.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

The most interesting thing about Mike McDonald to me is that the Scottish surname MacDonald, he doesn't capitalize the D in Donald. Not unlike the great late comic actor Norm MacDonald. He didn't capitalize the D in Donald either. Very unusual. But here you have two guys choosing not to do that. You know, it interests me.

[Greg Cody]

See, even the stories about him are boring.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

The etymology of not capitalizing The D in McDonald interest me. And to my knowledge, the Seahawks coach Has never been asked that in a press conference.

[Stugotz]

Well, Zaslo, I see you smiling and I think I know why you're smiling. Can you tell the audience I wanna write it down. I'm gonna write down why I think you're smiling and just. We'll see if Greg Cody is in any way embarrassed by this. Go ahead.

[Chris]

I just find it interesting that. Greg, you don't even pretend to listen to this show when you're not here.

[Stugotz]

I said that last week is what I wrote down on the piece of paper. Cuz Zaslow was smiling. So he's come with dick hammer. And McDonald's spells it with a small.

[Dan LeBatard]

D. A little D, Yeah.

[Stugotz]

So it's recycled stuff that we've said.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

I missed that show. I apologize. Normally I listen to every minute of the. What, six, seven hours?

[Stugotz]

We were really interested in it when Zaz said it for the first time and we all learned it together.

[Dan LeBatard]

A week ago he gave us the Norm MacDonald comp. Though that was more than what Zaz said.

[Stugotz]

Just like Zaz.

[Dan LeBatard]

Zaz said, isn't this peculiar? And didn't add anything to the conversation. I leveled up, my friend.

[Greg Cody]

I think I did the Dick Hammer thing a few weeks ago too.

[Stugotz]

What are you doing there? Because if we're doing ghost stuff, I think we should go.

[Greg Cody]

I'm not doing anything.

[Stugotz]

Okay, well, okay. Look at that.

[Dan LeBatard]

He's right.

[Stugotz]

Look at that. Look. You don't need to listen to the show when you're not here, Greg. But you can. You need to listen to it while we're doing it. You pointing at a monitor. That is a screen that hasn't been put on our televisions yet because it's a lie in a seal and terrible artificial intelligence. Because Louis has a tool is not the way to do the show here.

[Chris]

Like, hold on, like, Greg, You. You've been here a lot longer than I have. Do you know what each monitor here means?

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

No.

[Stugotz]

No chance. No shot. Kidding. No, don't. Don't learn anything.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

I'm not a technician.

[Stugotz]

Don't learn anything. What I was beginning to say a little tough, gotta be honest. Go to the sound, please, because when I think of ghostly stuff, I want you. You guys did hear, right, that the NFL is now signing up Madrid long term. The Dolphins went to ma. The Dolphins had a ghostly sound emerge.

[Greg Cody]

I don't have a ghost sound here.

[Stugotz]

Let's go, Dolphins. Yeah. Chris, it's a different ghost. Not the one you're pretending that you're not, Right?

[Greg Cody]

He's not playing.

[Dan LeBatard]

I don't Know what you're talking about.

[Stugotz]

There's a ghost haunting the show they're playing. Which is more ghostly?

[Dan LeBatard]

The Spanish galleon. Dan Marino for sure.

[Stugotz]

Are you sure? I think both of these things are pretty ghostly. You think that Dan Marino has a peg leg coming through the fog. I. We talked about these coming through the fog in a haunted 1820s where Ichabod Crane.

[Dan LeBatard]

He's reading Ichabod Crane. It just came out.

[Stugotz]

There's a bestseller. There's a fog there. And I feel like on that physically, who do you imagine being on that pirate boat filled with haunting ghosts? Because I think Jaime Haquez has to be on it as a conquistador. Right. Just the physically, the way that his face looks like. He's got to be. He's got to be on that boat that's making its way through the. Why are you smiling, Zaslo? What's so funny?

[Chris]

I mean, he played in front of crowds for 20 years. He doesn't understand, like, he's never heard the chant.

[Stugotz]

Let's go, dolphins. It is really easy, right? It is an easy chant to do. What do you make of the felt the easiest? Do you think he regrets it at all? Do you think it stays with him in any way that he went out there and. No, you guys are just shaking.

[Dan LeBatard]

He doesn't even know he did it.

[Stugotz]

Wait a minute. He's 60. He's not 160.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's not about that.

[Greg Cody]

I think he thinks he nailed it. Doesn't know we ever mocked it. Like he thinks just perfect.

[Stugotz]

No, come on. You think? These guys are surrounded by so many yes people at all times.

[Greg Cody]

Good job, Dano.

[Stugotz]

Good job, boss.

[Chris]

Oh, yeah, that's gonna catch on.

[Greg Cody]

Dan.

[Dan LeBatard]

Dan the man.

[Stugotz]

That's what you guys think.

[Dan LeBatard]

You're so right, Dan.

[Stugotz]

So you're not doing that, Chris. You're not big pat on the.

[Dan LeBatard]

From King Jimmy.

[Stugotz]

Greg, what the hell are we going to do with the Rooney rule? How do you fix something that doesn't appear like it can be fixed? When Roger Goodell is being asked, he's saying we've got a lot of work to do. It's been 20 years that they've had this rule, this cycle. Now I would understand how anybody listening to this. Right. Would say to themselves some form of what? Every cycle I have to hire a minority. I'm obligated or this is gonna come up. But the commissioner is putting his voice on. Yeah, I know this is a problem. I know we have a lot of work to do. I know that the Thing that. And I don't think he's doing it just because of optics. I think he is trying to figure out how to fix this. And what just ends up happening every single time is a white owner ends up getting into interviews with people he either knows or commonalities or most of his circle is also other white people. And so what ends up happening is the recommendations that come from people who just have commonalities. It doesn't have to be an outright racism as much as it is just a problem that keeps a race from getting into a position of power more often because so many of the interviews are clearly bogus. Like, it's just. It's just bullshit interviews that honestly are insulting 20 years in to people who are going in when they know they don't have a chance whatsoever to get the inter. So the only reason they take the interview is so they can practice interviewing.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Right. Which in and of itself is not a terrible thing. And another advantage of it is if you're a minority candidate for head coach, for example, and you interview in this cycle with two different teams, let's say a year from now, you have that on your resume, like you have been interviewed for the head coaching position, which increases the likelihood that you'll continue to be interviewed because you've had that experience before. So in the long term, I think it does help. Even when you're over 10, hiring a minority head coach in this particular cycle, you've given the opportunity to be interviewed to so many minority coaches that in the long term that doesn't hurt, that helps.

[Stugotz]

Okay, but it's not good enough, right?

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

It's not good enough.

[Stugotz]

And if Goodell knows it. Do you think he's just saying you don't think I believe him? I actually, like, I am in a position where I tend to be just generally skeptical of all power, period. But I do believe that he's looking at this and he's like, yeah, I've got a problem. I don't know how to fix this. I can't fix it. How do I fix this? It's obviously a problem and 20 years in, it shouldn't be this kind of problem. Where last week you're on with us and you're telling us ridiculously that Mike McDaniel ends up satisfying the Rooney rule quota because one of his parents was blessed.

[Chris]

Really. I mean, I think the only way that it gets fixed and it's not really a fix, it's just reality is the, the owners like this, like these owners, it's all older gentlemen, you know, these owners have to essentially go away and give way to a younger generation of owners who have had more interactions with minorities. And until that happens, I don't know how it gets. Gets fixed.

[Dan LeBatard]

But there's progress.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Dan LeBatard]

Of course it doesn't feel like it. I'm sure everybody imagined with the introduction of the Rooney rule, some, Some more minority hires would have happened, but some of the incentives that they put in place for these teams, those are really working.

[Chris]

They're draft picks, right?

[Stugotz]

Yeah.

[Dan LeBatard]

Look at what the Niners and Rams keep doing now. They're blessed to have the guy at head coach that crowns the next guy. Right. King making head coaches, they are making some of the most progressive hires because when Rob Sala gets hired, I get a third round pick, I'll replace him with Raheem Morris because people want the dude that stands next to the dude, Sean McVay, the very same way.

[Chris]

I think. I don't know the answer to this, but what also hurts black candidates from getting these head coaching jobs is it's like they're always defensive coaches. Right? Like there's never the black offensive coordinate. Are there any black offensive coordinators? I mean, I saw Eric.

[Greg Cody]

Byron Leftwich was right.

[Chris]

I saw Eric Biename just got a job, but he's never called the plays for Kansas City. He's always been Andy Reid. Like, are there ever? So essentially what I'm saying is it's really only 50%. Like you're cutting it in half. You know, it's not. There aren't black candidates on the offensive and defense side. It's really only the defensive side.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, but weird.

[Stugotz]

But what I. I'm sure how weird it is given that the offensive masterminds, whoever you associate with that Andy Reid or Shanahan or. I'm talking about Mike Shanahan, not Kyle Shanahan. Whoever you associate with, the people who teach offense, none of them are black. The people who have had that power have been white. But the point Mike's making is a super interesting one because do you realize how bad a problem has to be in that sport when your salary capped? All right. And everyone is looking for any advantage they can get anywhere because everyone is equal under how much money you can pay. They're incentivizing. We'll give you draft picks. It's like the most valuable thing. We'll give you draft picks. Just do this. Please help us here. And they still can't fix it. Like, you still got the commissioner. Like, it's a fairly extraordinary gesture for a commissioner of a league to say I'll give you draft picks if you just hire some minorities. And yet still, first day of the super bowl week, he's giving a press conference where he's like, I can't get this fixed. What do I have to do to get this fixed? What more can I do? Like these people are looking for advantages everywhere. If these people will cheat to get a draft pick, if they know they will not get caught, all of them will cheat if they, if I give them a valuable draft pick pick for free and it's incentivized and it's still a problem. That is a bit crazy, isn't it? Given how competitive these people are and that McVeigh is known as sort of gaming the system because like sure.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Sure.

[Dan LeBatard]

Look at their, their staffs, their position coaches. Like they, they, they kind of built this into their talent acquisition. They have less respect for the cap because they know that every once in a while we can count on one of those third round draft picks. They're doing it right now. You need to have prolonged success. You need to have a head coach that has that reputation. But I do think there are some really good examples of it working.

[Mike Ryan]

You know, people keep asking me about my 2026 resolutions and yeah, I got the usual stuff. You know, watch more games, complain about the power play and pretend like my team's actually going to stay healthy.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Haha.

[Mike Ryan]

But this year the one at the top of my list is simple. Get comfy. That's where Bombas comes in. They bring serious comfort to my everyday essentials. Bombas just dropped their all new sports socks engineered for running, golf, hiking, skiing, snowboarding. Basically whatever you're pretending you're about to be really into. And I'm trying to stay active this year by playing hockey. I need these socks. It has cushioning where you need it. It's sweat wicking, solid support, no distractions, just comfort. And for the everyday stuff, Bombas footwear has you covered. Sunday slippers for staying in, Friday sandals for quick errands and a new Saturday suede slip ons for when you want comfort but still need to leave the house. Premium everyday go tos I don't really think about, which is kind of the point. And for every item you buy, Bombas donates one to someone facing housing insecurity. One bought one donated over 150 million items so far. Head over to bombas.com dkn use code dkn for 20 off your first purchase. S b o m b-a dash.com dkn code dkn at checkout.

[Stugotz]

Don LeBatard. Surely every time you're watching this, you recognize that your wife is laughing, that she married. She married Larry David.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

I do, yes.

[Greg Cody]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

One of the great characters in the history of television. In my humble opinion and. And to my credit, my personality.

[Stugotz]

In my humble opinion, followed by to my credit, amazing.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

My personality, just amazing. Predate. Curb your enthusiasm.

[Stugotz]

St. Oh, wow.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

I'm not going to say Larry David patterned himself.

[Stugotz]

You copy? All right, Put it on the poll, please. Juju. Did Greg Cody copyright being an asshole long before Larry David. This is the Dan Levatar show with the stugach. When you say that, though, Mike, I don't think people totally understand how rare it is for someone McVeigh's age to have the stability of confidence of yeah, I got this job for as long as I wanted. I know I got this job. I know I'm good at this. I'm not on a hot seat. I'm never to going. Going to be on a hot seat. Like, everyone knows I'm good at this. I can hire whoever I want because I know I'm good at this. So I've had no shackles on me whatsoever because I'm not. Oh, shit. I'm going to lose my job in two years. Oh, they just blew out my gm. I don't have any support. Like, there are so few guys in that sport. Like, it's what you need leadership to have in order for this to be possible. So you have the combination of incentivizing with traffic, but you also need to have the young leaders because older guys are going to be influenced by. They came up through the system and they do it the way that everyone else has done it. So the institutional stuff is going to be embedded in how it is they do it because it's how they learn to do it. And all their white coaches from beforehand are always the guys who they're learning offense from because the black guys aren't the offensive coordinators very often. The idea of that is crazy to me. But getting back to what it is that Mike Ryan was saying before about Mike McDonald in a Super bowl where we love the sport by its. But you need storylines in order to make the week interesting. You need personalities you care about. You need. Sam Darnold's got an interesting story. I don't know that as a quarterback, he's someone necessarily that you're super interested in hearing talk or perform the centerpieces of this super bowl in terms of stardom, given that, you know, the The Patriots skill position guys we learned about this year. Smith and Jigba, we learned this year is the best receiver in football. But we don't know about him as a personality. When you look at these teams, interesting stars are not something that you see a lot of. I'm not saying there aren't good players and I'm not saying there aren't good stories, but just somebody is a personality that you got to check out at media day.

[Dan LeBatard]

Like there's Hollins, right? Diggs has some interesting stuff around him. Certainly some controversial stuff around him too. Has Cardi B as a partner set an illustrious career. But. But no. Usually the Super Bowls have a little bit more juice, more star power.

[Stugotz]

I think that's part of the issue that you have of people being slightly less interested in the results of this Super Bowl. I think it's at least in part because it doesn't make sense to me at all that you would have two teams with longer odds than any that you have ever seen in a Super Bowl, 60 to 1 and 80 to 1 before the season started, and that people would be less interested in that. Like I thought the underdog and the surprise was one of the best things about sports, both of those things. Sam Darnold is an underdog. The Patriots obviously aren't as an organization, but this team is usually is.

[Dan LeBatard]

Usually is. And that's always like the. What they sell you before every season. Like your team has a chance. We have parity. But this is a league that has been highly dependent on like four faces for the last 30 years. Like Manning, Brady, Belichick, Rodgers occasionally gets in there. Mahomes was able to get it handed down from Brady, matched up in AFC Championship game, matched up in a Super bowl with and this is a league that is in transition right now trying to find the next spaces that are going to run the place.

[Chris]

Well, are they actually the underdogs? It's the number one seed in the number two seed.

[Stugotz]

Oh, but I'm just saying 60 to 181 odds before the season. They're two teams we didn't expect to get there. And so you could do one seed and two seed and you'd be right. But in having no stars, in having, I guess not enough storylines, the football has to carry you. But when I think of the best things in sports, the top of the list to me on that is patriotism. Like not regional identity, but national identity. It's why the World cup is such a giant. Like patriotism to me around your sports makes it the best it's why the greatest upset in the history of United States Sports is the 1980 Olympic hockey team. Because it had both things. It had patriotism. And the second thing, I thought underdog or surprise was like the second best sport. Best thing of what do people want with their sports? You guys can nominate something else if you've got something else to nominate, if you think that there's something else that you put second. But I thought that was the order. If you want me to get swept up in something where I'm emotional, where I am doing something okay in front of my television that I don't do in normal life, I'm jumping up and down, I'm crying, I'm excited. I think patriotism first and I think give me an underdog story that totally knocks me off my feet. I'm surprised. I wasn't expecting that I would put. I guess I'm putting these together on the second place line. I'm putting underdog surprise. I'm making them the same equal or synonyms. But what else would you put up there?

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Well, in this case, I don't think New England is a classic underdog, even though they went 4 and 13 the past two seasons. But that's a block.

[Stugotz]

Aren't they the 80 to 1, though? Aren't they the biggest underdog in the history of the Super Bowl?

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

By preseason odds, yes, because they were coming off a 4 and 13 season, but they just got done with a dynasty. They just got done with Belichick Brady. When we talk about the Patriots of all teams being on the cusp of perhaps another dynasty, everybody outside of Boston is going, oh, God, not this again. But if they pull this upside down set and Drake May leads it coming out of this Super Bowl, Drake May at age 23, is going to be seen as an elite quarterback. Coupled with Mike Vrabel leading a new Dynasty 2.0 in New England, this Super.

[Dan LeBatard]

Bowl has to drive like passionate fans of certain teams insane. Insane to see both these franchises up there, you know, the Seahawks, in terms of the NFC and playoff and super bowl appearances, they've made it the most. They're tied for the most out of any franchise in the last 25 years. They went there with Hasselblad, they went to two with Russell Wilson, and here they are with like a whole new core yet again. Fourth Super bowl in the last 25 years. That's really impressive and hard to do. Patriots just tore down the greatest pro football dynasty of our lives and are back a couple years later.

[Chris]

And was this like 11 for this century, for that.

[Dan LeBatard]

Chris Collinsworth, I think is called six Super Bowls. Five of them are Patriots Super Bowls. It's nuts. I'd be like, if I'm a Dolphin fan, if I'm a Jet fan, I'm pulling my hair out. It's not good. I think another thing, too, that people will tune in to chase is chase for perfection, right? Like, that's another thing that's a bit of a novelty where it's like, all right, you're not the underdog, but you're the 2007 Patriots, and people are gonna watch just to see if something that they've never seen before happen. You UCLA from the early 70s that went undefeated, like, all these teams have this lore behind them. You're like, all right, if they can do that, obviously we don't have that in the Super. Well, but that, to me, is another thing that I'll go watch. Well, that's also part of this. Right? Is. So not only are you used to seeing these uniforms there, but you have two preseason underdogs. Not a preseason underdog against a juggernaut. If the Seahawks or the Patriots, obviously same conference as the Chiefs, but if you had the Chiefs there yet again, the great dynasty, and then one of these teams that wasn't supposed to be there, you could create that drama. But you have have two teams that nobody considers. So no matter what, it's, oh, cool story. One of the teams won that wasn't supposed to win. And yet you're also so used to seeing these uniforms in the super bowl that you don't even feel like they're all Seahawks.

[Greg Cody]

You can't be underdogs, and you're there every other year.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Well, despite the preseason odds, I don't think you should consider Seattle or New England a classic underdog. Now, if it's Jacksonville, if they had made the super bowl, if Houston had made the super bowl, what you guys.

[Stugotz]

Are doing, like, I get what you're doing organizationally, but okay. Also in this conversation, I'd put it right up there with history. If I'm saying top five things that people loved about sports or love consistently about sports, that'll make them get attached to something. Because Stars is not in my top five. Although I think Stars helps achieve Eagles super bowl. Cuz people like stars.

[Mike Ryan]

Gambling.

[Stugotz]

Well, yes, of course.

[Greg Cody]

Taylor Swift.

[Stugotz]

Yes. Okay, thank you. Fame and gambling. Yes. But I'm just doing generic things that would apply to everybody in the history of sports. And up in my top five would be nobody believed in us. If I've Got a regional identity that I've tied up in my team. Patriot fans, for all you think of, man, they've been hogging the championships. They're going to be able to yell this year. Nobody believed in us the way they haven't since they played the Greatest show on Turf with Tom Brady and his first first year and Sam Darnold. Nobody believes in us. Nobody believes in me. Like, usually these are the ingredients you need is what I'm telling you. And I feel like people are saying, not stars, give me stars. Like, it's got all the other ingredients and they're like, nah. And Smith and Jigba is better than everybody at what he does, but not a star. He's just. He's great at football. But if he, like, do you think people would recognize him in a grocery store outside of Seattle?

[Chris]

Jackson sn.

[Dan LeBatard]

Which is why you need the biggest star on the planet to bring the eyes. Bad Benny.

[Stugotz]

I thought Chris was gonna play that for you there. I was gonna say Bad Benny in front of you instead. And you guys are just using gratuitous shots of Bad Benny, putting him up on the screen because you just want to game the algorithm to try and get anything going around. The fame of Bad Benny. Who is the biggest star at the Super Bowl?

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Bad Benny.

[Stugotz]

He'd also be the biggest star. If anybody in Sports other than LeBron James was playing in this Super Bowl.

[Dan LeBatard]

Benny might still be bigger.

[Stugotz]

Put it on a poll. Put it on the poll at le show who's a bigger star, bad Benny or LeBron? Put it on the poll as well. Who's a bigger star, Bad Benny or Lionel Messi?

[Dan LeBatard]

If you had to bet, where does this rating peak? I'm in on halftime Bet Benny.

[Stugotz]

Really? Well, if the game. Not if the game is close late.

[Dan LeBatard]

Quite the qualifier, though. Like, yeah, if we have a one score game with three minutes left, that always reflects in the ratings. Always. But if we're anticipating, you know, a whole home game, this number peaks.

[Stugotz]

I was saying, right? I was saying there are a couple of things that have been really interesting to me about the evolution of football. I was telling you about the Woolen call in the Seattle game that the referee made. How stunned I was that everyone yelled at Woolen and no one yelled at the referee. That we've changed and whitewashed the entirety of what it is used to be. Guys, Wolf, guys, trash talk. It's a normal thing. You don't penalize somebody in that situation for that call. It seems like a million years ago that Super Bowls were just always terrible. I expect this game to be close late. Why? Because football. Because football. Lately, everyone's close late. I don't even know how it's going to happen because I think Seattle's better, but something's going to happen with Sam Darnold and something's going to make that game close. And I just used to always think, as recently as, I don't know, fewer than 10 years ago, the Super Bowl's going to be bad. The game's not going to be close.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Right. I covered about 15 or 20 Super Bowls in a row. It seems like I covered a lot of 38-10s. You know, when Buffalo was losing big.

[Chris]

Denver was always getting blown out.

[Jonathan Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I mean, there were some really lopsided Super Bowls, but you're right, the league itself is now so parody soaked that every game's close in the.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, we had a pretty good three year run. When you look back on it might be the best run with the two Chiefs, Eagles, a Chief, Chiefs, Niners, Rams, Bengals. Like that's a pretty solid run.