Hour 1: Blowed Out (feat. Jeff Pearlman and Leon Cote)

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Episode: Hour 1: Blowed Out
Date: October 22, 2025
Featured Guests: Jeff Pearlman (author) & Leon Cote
Theme: Sports nostalgia, the art of journalism, and Jeff Pearlman’s exhaustive new Tupac Shakur biography

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Episode Overview

Broadcast live from the Elser Hotel in Miami, this episode spotlights journalist and author Jeff Pearlman, who joins Dan Le Batard and the crew to discuss his new book Only God Can Judge Me: The Many Lives of Tupac Shakur. The conversation weaves through classic sports broadcast nostalgia, the pitfalls of legendary athletes as broadcasters, the unexpected challenges of promoting a hip-hop biography as a sports reporter, and an engaging, story-rich countdown of the most surprising facts from Pearlman’s Tupac research. The episode retains its signature blend of humor, insight, and irreverence, making it accessible and engaging for sports fans and pop culture enthusiasts alike.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sports Nostalgia & Athlete Broadcasters

[00:08–01:38]

• Dan opens by reflecting on the enduring nostalgia of NBA on NBC and the recent apparent Michael Jordan broadcast appearance.
• Pearlman voices skepticism about legendary athletes succeeding in broadcasting:
  • Jeff Pearlman: “Legends, it just doesn’t work when they perform… Great athletes are so great, they can't talk about what they're great about. It’s almost like the disease of it all.” (00:56-01:25)
• Panel laughs about infamous athlete broadcast mishaps—especially Emmitt Smith’s “blowed out” moment on Monday Night Football:
  • Dan Le Batard: “Who could forget Blowed out. Got blowed out.” (02:19)

2. Pearlman’s Transition from Sports to Tupac

[02:42–03:21]

• Chris Cody asks why Pearlman pivoted to writing about Tupac.
• Pearlman shares admiration for those who try something outside their comfort zone (referencing Garth Brooks/Cristopher Gaines):
  • Jeff Pearlman: “I love Tupac. I feel like there hasn’t been a great, great Tupac book… If no one else is going to write it, why not a sports writer?” (02:51-03:21)

3. Challenges and Realities of Promoting a Biography Outside Your “Lane”

[05:08–07:19]

• Pearlman describes the anxiety of marketing a non-sports book and confronting the “culture vulture” accusation:
  • Jeff Pearlman: “Here comes a culture vulture… You just have to show your knowledge… I wrote this book because I wanted someone to write a great, deep-dive look into his life… So I’ve been fighting, and I think it’s been going okay.” (06:43–07:19)
• He describes tangible examples, like visiting Tupac’s childhood neighborhoods and talking with those who shaped him.

4. The Evolving Role of Long-Form Journalism

[07:19–08:59]

• Pearlman reacts to digital culture’s shrinking attention spans and the frustration of seeing work reduced to out-of-context clips:
  • Jeff Pearlman: “Everyone digests things now in 20 second clips... There’s no elaboration, and nobody wants elaboration. It's incredibly frustrating.” (08:11-08:59)

5. Diving Deeper: Surprises from Researching Tupac Shakur

[09:28–10:38]

• Pearlman details what shocked him most—sheer trauma and poverty in Tupac’s early life, related by Tupac’s sister Setwa:
  • Jeff Pearlman: “People don’t understand the trauma he went through... I hung out with the crack dealers who taught him about life. It was a real eye-opening experience.” (09:42–10:38)
• Confirmed: Interviewed a staggering 652 sources for the book (10:44–10:47)

6. Behind-the-Scenes Scoop: Urban Legends & Jada Pinkett

[11:02–12:13]

• Pearlman describes the oddness of researching Jada Pinkett’s connection to Tupac and debunks the Michael Jackson fight rumor.
• Reveals stories like Madonna’s breakup letter and Janet Jackson demanding an HIV test before filming a scene with Tupac.

7. Off-the-Cuff: Jeff Pearlman’s Top Five Tupac Facts

[16:30–22:21] Dan puts Pearlman on the spot to share his “top five” wildest findings. The stories showcase Pearlman’s research depth and storytelling skill.

#5: Tupac Shot Himself in the Testicle

• Jeff Pearlman: “I found the EMT who’d never been interviewed before… He confirmed there was no entrance wound through his pants… meaning [Tupac] shot himself in the testicle.” (16:30–17:02)

#4: 150 Never-Seen Tupac Love Letters

• High school girlfriend Mary in Nebraska had 150 love and breakup letters from a teenage Tupac—Pearlman flew there to read them:
  • Jeff Pearlman: “I flew out to Nebraska… read through 150 love letters… absolutely insane.” (17:49–18:15)

#3: Tupac’s Ashes Shipped by FedEx

• After Tupac’s death, Suge Knight’s big responsibility was to get his ashes to L.A.—he sent them via regular FedEx, in a cardboard box. (18:34–19:08)

#2: Tupac’s Secret Grave in North Carolina

• Contrary to the Malibu-at-sea legend, some of Tupac’s ashes are buried in an unmarked grave in Lumberton, NC, on an abandoned lot that belonged to his mother:
  • Jeff Pearlman: “You can see the grave of Tupac Shakur… I don’t think anyone knows it’s there.” (19:19–20:05)

#1: Finding the Baby from “Brenda’s Got a Baby”

• Pearlman, with the help of a genealogist, tracked down the real-life baby who inspired Tupac’s song “Brenda’s Got a Baby.” They ultimately reunited the man with his biological mother, at a Red Hot Chili Peppers concert in Las Vegas:
  • Jeff Pearlman: “She starts screaming, ‘Oh my God, do you know where my baby is?’... She was in Vegas for a Chili Peppers concert. She met her son that night.” (20:21–22:19)

8. Jeff Pearlman’s Theory on Tupac’s Death

[22:34–23:51]

• Jeff calls the “revenge killing” theory—the result of Tupac assaulting Orlando Anderson—far more plausible than elaborate conspiracy:
  • Jeff Pearlman: “If it were not Tupac, this would have been reported as fact long ago.” (23:51)

9. The Real Cost of Sports—and Streaming

[36:43–39:08]

• Dan, Chris, and the crew query each other about their ballooning monthly cable & streaming bills, lampooning the modern sports fan “bundle” gone wild.
• Candid group confessions about overlapping apps, never-used subscriptions, and the mixed blessings of more “free” network NBA content.

10. The Streaming Delay Dilemma

[39:45–41:05]

• The crew explains how actual live sports on streaming apps (notably ESPN+) are often significantly time-shifted or delayed to fit in ads, frustrating those wanting truly real-time action.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Athlete Broadcaster Skepticism

Jeff Pearlman [00:56]:
“Legends, it just doesn’t work when they perform… Great athletes are so great, they can't talk about what they're great about. It’s almost like the disease of it all.”

On Writing a Tupac Book as a White Sportswriter

Jeff Pearlman [06:43]:
“Here comes a culture vulture… You just have to show your knowledge… show your research.”

On the Modern Media Attention Span

Jeff Pearlman [08:11]:
“Everyone digests things now in 20 second clips... There’s no elaboration, and nobody wants elaboration. It’s incredibly frustrating.”

On the Depth of Tupac’s Trauma

Jeff Pearlman [09:42]:
“The pain that informed his music, explains everything about him as an artist… I just dove deep into his trauma. I hung out with the crack dealers in Marin City who taught him about life.”

Best Fact from 652 Interviews

Jeff Pearlman [20:21]:
“I tracked down the real baby from Brenda’s Got a Baby… [His mother] starts screaming, ‘Oh my God, do you know where my baby is?’… She was in Vegas for a Chili Peppers concert. She met her son that night.”

Debunking Tupac Myths

Jeff Pearlman [12:13]:
“He did not get in a fight with Michael Jackson.”

On Tupac’s Death

Jeff Pearlman [23:51]:
“If it were not Tupac, this would have been reported as fact long ago.”

On Streaming Frustrations

Chris Cody [40:48]:
“ESPN Plus is delaying you even more because they don’t care… If you hit go live after the ad is over… it actually jumps ahead.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:08–01:38: The perils of legendary athletes as broadcasters
• 03:21: Why Pearlman chose to write about Tupac
• 05:08: The culture vulture critique and deep-dive journalism
• 07:19: Frustrations with 20-second sound bites vs. true investigative work
• 09:28: The trauma and pain that shaped Tupac’s music
• 10:44: 652 interviews for the biography
• 16:30–22:21: Pearlman’s “Top 5” Tupac revelations (highlight: Brenda's Got a Baby true story at 20:21)
• 22:34: Pearlman’s plainspoken theory on Tupac’s murder
• 36:43: The real cost of sports streaming/cable
• 39:45: How streaming delays undermine the “live” sports experience

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Summary & Final Thoughts

This lively hour, jam-packed with investigation, humor, and storytelling, offers a rare double-helix of old-school sports nostalgia and deep-dive cultural journalism. Listeners are treated to inside stories both from the NBA’s broadcast history and Tupac Shakur’s life—juxtaposed with uproarious crew banter about cable bills, streaming woes, and day-to-day fandom.

Jeff Pearlman’s visit is essential listening for anyone curious about the messy, revelatory process of researching mythic public figures, and the endless frictions between culture, media, and sports.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[Dan LeBatard]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats podcast.

Jeff Pearlman is always exhaustive when he does his book writing. He talks to tons and tons of people and I don't know if he's ever talked to more than you will find in his new book, Only Only God Can Judge Me, the Many Lives of Tupac Shakur. I also enjoy his work in and around all things sports. Check out his YouTube offerings. He's a great storyteller and I want to talk to him a little bit about sports before get into his book. So how nostalgic were you last night on the basketball NBA on NBC. And more specifically, were you expecting anything from Michael Jordan other than a stiff one hour interview that they will cut up all season? Because an hour of the goat's time is something that you will just sprinkle over this and many other seasons, I suppose.

[Chris Cody]

How dare you.

[Jeff Pearlman]

How dare you speak of him that way. Wait, Dan, don't you think we've learned through years and years and decades and decades that legends, it just doesn't work when they perform. Might like, it just doesn't work. Never ever, ever. With almost with rare exception works. Wait, do you disagree? Like I actually thought from the beginning, Michael Jordan. This can't possibly work.

[Dan LeBatard]

Now let me think for a second. Who has been the greatest of the athletes that has actually transitioned into broadcasting? Who was excellent athletes or coaches?

[Mike Ryan]

Nick Saban's doing a bang up job without the gift of charisma. Gretzky's fine with hockey.

[Greg Cody]

He was bad at first, got a lot better.

[Chris Cody]

Michael Jordan's been awesome so far.

[Mike Ryan]

This Jordan thing has been cool.

[Dan LeBatard]

Insights into excellence. There were very few of them. There was just a story about making a free throw.

[Mike Ryan]

And Bill Simmons was like, I don't care what you call it. I don't care that he's not talking about the game. This was clearly taped like months ago. I'm good. Just keep talking.

[Dan LeBatard]

Okay. So he can be loving him that way and I could love it slightly less. As somebody who wants broadcasters to be good at broadcasting.

[Chris Cody]

He is excellent broadcaster.

[Mike Ryan]

As long as I'm talking, Mike Tirico's a broadcaster. Talking to goat there to be the goat.

[Chris Cody]

Live up to this image. The people had real built up to Bill Ryder and his whole family.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Exactly right.

[Mike Ryan]

Such a dumb damn.

[Jeff Pearlman]

I remember when I was a kid and they used to have a Monday Night Football used to always cycle in former athletes to be the people on Monday Night Football. And do you guys remember when, when EMT Smith had a Season on Monday Night Football.

[Mike Ryan]

The rice of passage.

[Dan LeBatard]

Who could forget Blowed out. Got blowed out.

[Jeff Pearlman]

That was not good. Yeah, what can you do? They're just. It's just not meant to be. Great athletes are so great. They can't talk about what they're great about. @ is almost like the disease of it all.

[Dan LeBatard]

Did you get nostalgic last night at all?

[Jeff Pearlman]

No, Honest to God. Just being totally honest. I've mainly been focused on promoting this book as it came out yesterday, so I wasn't as tuned in as I wanted to be. I was just checking on my phone.

[Chris Cody]

Jeff, you're a great writer. I've read many of your sports books. What led you to want to do a book about Tupac as far away from sports as possible?

[Jeff Pearlman]

You know, this has got. It's gonna sound weird. When I was a kid, Garth Brooks wrote a. Had a. Had a rock album. I'm not even a Garth Brooks fan, but he did a rock album called the Greatest Hits of Christopher Gaines. And it was. It was terrible. And everyone killed it. Or it wasn't terrible, but everyone killed him for it. And I always admired the fact that he tried something way outside the box. And I've always thought about that, just trying things. I love Tupac. I've always been fascinated by Tupac. I feel like there hasn't been a great, great Tupac book. And I just decided, if no one else is going to write it, why not a sports writer? So I just kind of gave it a shot.

[Dan LeBatard]

The name of the book is Only God Can Judge Me, the Many Lives of Tupac Shakur. Before we get to that, let's just play the montage that Jeff Pearlman is talking about when he remembers that Emmett Smith said that someone got blowed out. Blowed out. Well, Boone, when you talk about humble pie, you hear the Patriots promote humble pie. And they have promoted humble pie all year long. A slice of that humble pie is having the ability to have a short term memory, which means don't worry about the game we just won or the team we just blew out. A blown out. Let's think about what we need to do going forward. And they had blown out. All he has done is led his team to nine road wins. He has his team in a position right now. If they win today, they can possibly go into the super bowl and make an appearance there. Frank Gore had 13 carries, now 13 carries for 72 yards. Now, the reason why he didn't get any more is because you didn't get enough first down. It is A l cool JJ shot. That's what you were saying about help back. That's a safety.

[Jeff Pearlman]

I tell you what, they better get.

[Dan LeBatard]

Minds right because they will be on the COVID of Insane magazine. This kind of inconsistency play going up against a team like New England will get you completely blown out. The Rams are not very good. Eli Manning has been given the rights of passage. The Patriots defense was one of the weakest links of the team. But what happened tonight? The strength of the Patriots team got debacled. Blown out. You never want to be on the COVID of Insane magazine every it got debacle.

[Chris Cody]

I love Insane magazine every long time subscriber.

[Greg Cody]

Jeff should write a book about El Cool jj.

[Dan LeBatard]

What do you when you go into Tupac's life, what are you expecting, Jeff, and how were you surprised in ways that, you know, the reader might be surprised by?

[Jeff Pearlman]

Wait, Dan, I just have to say, because you played that clip around the time Emmett Smith was on Monday Night Football. I appeared with him on an ESPN segment because I had a book come out about the 90s cowboys. And he actually kind of lit into me about the book. And this was in the middle of him doing Monday Night Football. And I had so much ammunition that I could have pulled out that I actually was running through my head and I just said, okay, like, I held back. And I want to thank you guys, all of you, one and all, for playing that. I know you didn't do it on my behalf, but that was a beautiful moment for me and my family.

[Dan LeBatard]

So you walked away from the exchange from an angry Emmett Smith and you've been haunted all these years later that you weren't able to say the things you meant to as comebacks.

[Jeff Pearlman]

I'm just going to tell you that promoting a book is very stressful, and that may have been the salt bath that I needed right there. So thank you for taking me to the spa and giving me the book.

[Dan LeBatard]

Why is it stressful? If you've poured so much work into this, you're getting all the applause. You're getting to talk with great facility about subject matter that you know better than just about anybody. Why is it stressful?

[Jeff Pearlman]

Number one, you don't know if the book is going to sell. Number two, to be honest with you, it is way outside my comfort zone. As far as I know how to promote a sports book, I know how to come on the different sports shows. But I don't. I don't have inroads in hip hop. I don't have inroads in rap There are a lot of hip hop outlets, podcasts, etc. That you need to promote a book on. And I, it's just, it's a lot harder than promoting a sports book for me. I'm just being honest is a lot harder to promote.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, I heard you the other day on a hip hop station, and I don't know how much resistance you're being met with when you write a warts and all Tupac book and you're walking into a lot of black environments as somebody who's the white guy.

[Jeff Pearlman]

There's a lot of the term is a culture vulture. That's what you get a lot of. Here comes a culture. A lot. And then you just have to show your knowledge on the subject, which I've really been trying to do, and show how much work you put in, you know, why is a white guy writing this book? I understand actually that question. I think it's a fair question, but I think you have to show your research. And so look, I wrote this book because I wanted someone to write a great, great, great deep dive, look into his life, go to Marin City, knock on his apartment door, go to Baltimore, knock on the door of his row house, meet all his neighbors, interview all his old classmates, that kind of book. So I've been fighting and I think it's, I think it's been going okay.

[Chris Cody]

Jeff, on that note, I saw a video you posted, I don't know when you posted. I saw last night, though, where you talked about getting death threats about this. And you know, beyond kind of just talking about that side of it, you also talked about the role of journalism, actual journalism, doing what you just described, going to his childhood home in Baltimore, going to his childhood home in Marin City. And right now I've been working with Pablo Torre on this whole Kwai Leonard aspiration story. And even my friends don't understand there's a difference between, hey, this is happening now. We're all opining, which is what sports journalism is now, today, for the most part, for the consumer, versus what you're doing, what Pablo is doing, which is, no, I'm finding out stuff that nobody would have found out for if not for my work. How do you get that message across to people without sounding egotistical?

[Jeff Pearlman]

I guess it's not even a matter of. It's a great question. It's not even a matter of ego, I swear to God. It's a matter of. Everyone digest things now in 20 second clips. So everything you say is cut down to 20 second clips thrown on Instagram TikTok, whatever, your choice. And there's no elaboration, and nobody wants elaboration. So they may see some little tiny clip of me saying something about Tupac. Tupac wasn't very good at fighting. Let's say that's a. That's a clip, right? And. Whoa, how could you possibly say that about Tupac? How can you say that about Pacific? But you don't hear the lead up who I talk to or the lead down who I know. And that stuff is like, I've never promoted a book in this world, actually, where everything is digested in small quantities. I think Pablo's going, oh, you guys are going through that too. Who is this guy? How could he be saying this? Blah, blah, blah. All you got is the 20 seconds you don't have the elaboration. It makes it. It's incredibly frustrating.

[Dan LeBatard]

Oh, but you say it's frustrating, but you're great at journalistic TikToks. You have a huge following because on the news of the day, you are very good speaking in these sound bites.

[Jeff Pearlman]

True, but I. My videos are actually three, four, or five minutes. A lot of them, six minutes, which sounds short, but today is an eternity. So the thing I found on TikTok is actually telling stories kind of resonates the same way you tell stories, but a lot of people, I'm just saying we live in a culture where the attention span is 8 seconds and they're on. I know you guys see this. It's a. It just can be very frustrating.

[Greg Cody]

Jeff, for. For huge Tupac fans, what will they be surprised, let's say, to learn from your.

[Mike Ryan]

Your book.

[Dan LeBatard]

And what were you surprised by? To get back to the original question that made you think of Emmett Smith and things you could have said to him back when he was on Monday.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Football, you know, I sat down with his sister Setwa in New Orleans, and she doesn't do many. Almost any interviews. And she told me something early on she's like. She said, I went to therapy years ago, and the first thing I told my therapist. The first thing I told my therapist is we had rats running along our floorboards. And she was talking about when they grew up in Baltimore and the poverty of Baltimore, and they had the poverty and the pain that Tupac went through. I always knew Thug Life, Tupac. I get around Tupac growing up without a father, growing up in deep, deep, deep poverty, growing up with a mother who was a crack addict. The pain that informed his music, explains everything about him as an artist, is the pain. And I Just think people don't understand the trauma that he went through. And I just dove deep into his trauma. I hung out with the crack dealers in Marin City who taught him sort of about life, you know, beyond life. It was just a real eye opening experience for me.

[Dan LeBatard]

I think you told us last time, but you can tell us again, how many people did you talk to for this book?

[Jeff Pearlman]

Official total of 652. Whoa.

[Dan LeBatard]

So it's more than you've ever done for a book. Even though all of your books are exhaustive in this regard, are they not?

[Jeff Pearlman]

I mean, I try. I think one book I did talk to like 704 people. So it wasn't the. It wasn't the personal record, but it's number two.

[Greg Cody]

Was there anyone that you tried to get a hold of that you couldn't?

[Jeff Pearlman]

Yeah, well, one, what interesting was I was in. Jada Pinkett went to high school at Tupac.

[Greg Cody]

And he loved her, right? Or she claims that he loved her.

[Jeff Pearlman]

I think she exaggerates that point a little bit. But he definitely, he liked her. And I went to. She was doing a book event at the Miami Book Festival. This is a true weird story. And I thought, all right, I'm going to go to this event and maybe I'll get her. And I go to the event. And this is after the Will Smith whole thing with the slap. And it's me and about 500 women and Jada Pinkett on the stage speaking largely about how to have a good marriage. And she literally has gone through all this stuff and all the women there are like, you preach, sister. You say, yeah, yeah, standing ovations. And I'm looking around like, what alternative reality have I entered where Jada Pinkett is telling everyone about how to have this great marriage and they're all eating it up. It was a very weird sort of commentary on celebrity in America. It was strange.

[Dan LeBatard]

But you didn't get her.

[Jeff Pearlman]

I did not get her. I mean, I read her book. I talked to friends. I read past interviews. You do? I. They went to Baltimore School of the Arts together. She was not well liked. The Baltimore School for the Arch. Actually, I interviewed about 50, 60 students who went there with both of them.

[Chris Cody]

It's called preaching to the choir. By the way, with that experience that you. You envisioned there. Jeff, question for you about an urban legend that I've heard for years, but I hope you can confirm for us.

[Jeff Pearlman]

He did not get in a fight with Michael Jackson.

[Chris Cody]

No, I wanted it to be real.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Not true. Did not get a fight with Michael Jackson. I am sorry. He did. I mean, he did. He did. I will say this. Among other things, he dated, okay? He dated Madonna. Wrote her kind of a breakup letter from prison, and she was basically like, he dated Lisa. Lisa from Lisa Lisa and called him Madonna. Did, in fact. I mean, I'm Madonna. Janet Jackson did, in fact, demand that she wouldn't do a kissing scene with him unless he got an HIV test. In Poetic Justice, I talked to the production assistant who went in and had to tell him that Janet insists you get AIDS test. And his response was F her fu. And they wound up doing the scene anyway. But he never got the AIDS test. So there's some other ones for you.

[Dan LeBatard]

All right, well, let's do this off the cuff here. Only God Can Judge Me. The Many lives of Tupac Shakur. Let's have you sell the book by giving us what you believe to be, in order, the top five best facts you have in the book. Because you just told a couple of very good stories there. So let's go. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And I'm putting you on the spot. I know this is impossible. You're a quick thinker and you've got a ton to choose from. So choose your five. And I am done filibustering. Now, number five, Jeff Pearlman.

[Jeff Pearlman]

This is in no order, though. Okay. I found the not what Dan wanted.

[Mike Ryan]

I know he's gonna have to adjust. Dan, number five. He's telling him to give away the most important parts of the book, and now he wants him to rank him, too, on the fly. After doing that to Zaz, I. I know the audience heard it. Zaz asked a question and he's like that. Question. My question now.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's right.

[Greg Cody]

I may as well go myself. Friday, October 24, the NBA on Prime Tips things off with their doubleheader. First up, Boston brings the action to the Garden as the Celtics face the Knicks. Then out west, it's a battle of the superpowers as the Lakers try to slow down the relentless pace of the Timberwolves, Celtics, Knicks, T Wolves. Lakers coverage starts Friday, October 24th at 7pm Eastern only on Prime.

[Jeff Pearlman]

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[Dan LeBatard]

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Don LeBatard.

[Greg Cody]

John, can you rate my Al Pacino from that billiard scene in Carlito's Way if I do it for you? I think it's pretty good.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah.

[Mike Ryan]

Okay. Stugarts, you think you're big time when you're going to die big time.

[Greg Cody]

That is on my infamous scale of 1 to 10.

[Mike Ryan]

That's a.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's a 7.6.

[Greg Cody]

Solid.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Good job, good job, good job.

[Mike Ryan]

That's a suey nominee right there.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Good.

[Dan LeBatard]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugach.

[Jeff Pearlman]

All right, I'm going, I'm going to do five. I'm going to do it in order. Damn it. There you go, number five. I found the EMT he'd never been interviewed before who got to Tupac when he was shot at Quad Studios. There's always been rumors that Tupac shot himself in the ball because one of his shot he got. When he got three shots, one in the head, one in the hand, one in the testicles. There are always rumors. He shot himself in the Tesco's. I found the emt. He lives in Maine. He'd never been interviewed before. He was surprised no one had ever interviewed him before. He confirmed to me there was no entrance wound through his pants or underwear when he shot himself. Meaning he had to have had the gun in his waistband and shot his own testicle.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's number five. Tupac shot his own testicle, is number five.

[Chris Cody]

Faith had twins. I probably have two pocks.

[Dan LeBatard]

Holy shit.

[Chris Cody]

Number four.

[Jeff Pearlman]

All right, Number four is. I thought this is the fact. This is a good reporting. Fine. I hope that counts. Everyone told me he had a girlfriend in high school. You need to talk to Mary. But Mary doesn't talk to anyone. But you need to talk to Mary. I tracked down Mary. Mary was his high school girlfriend. She was a ballerina. She now lives in the middle of nowhere in Nebraska. First she's like, I don't really want to talk. Then she said, you know what? I'll talk to you. I like what you're doing. She said, if you come out to Nebraska, you might want to see this. I don't know if this interests you, but my mom found about 150 love letters that Tupac wrote me under the bed in, like, a folder that I hadn't seen in 30 years. If you come out to Nebraska, I would let you read all the letters.

[Billy]

Wow.

[Jeff Pearlman]

So I flew out to Center City, Nebraska the next year, next day, met her at a deli, and read through 150, like love letters, breakup letters, pain letters, joy letters that she had. This woman had written Tupac when she was a 15 year old in love with him. And the letters were amazing, Beautiful, heartbroken. I hate my mom. I love my mom. Mary, I want to marry you. Let's get married. Let's have kids, let's have sex. It was absolutely insane.

[Mike Ryan]

Is any part of you like, this is Nebraska, though? Can you just send me a PDF? Just take me a photo?

[Jeff Pearlman]

I had a. I went to a deli in Nebraska. I met her there. They microwaved the bagels.

[Billy]

Oh, no.

[Dan LeBatard]

Number three.

[Jeff Pearlman]

I thought number three could be the microwave.

[Mike Ryan]

That was number three.

[Dan LeBatard]

Number two.

[Jeff Pearlman]

I got one, I swear.

[Dan LeBatard]

All right.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Chewbacc dies in Las Vegas. The family is. Suge Knight is there at the hospital. And they give Suge Knight one responsibility. It is to get the ashes from Vegas to the family home in Las Vegas. In Los Angeles, two days later, a two day FedEx man shows up. Package shows up at the door in a cardboard box, like a FedEx cardboard box. And inside the cardboard box are Tupac's ashes. So that was his big way, like classy way. Two day FedEx opens the box. The ashes are in the box.

[Chris Cody]

To be fair to Suge Knight, have you guys seen what FedEx first overnight cost? That's a lot of money. It's a lot.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Is it a lot of money?

[Mike Ryan]

These guys are especially in the 90s.

[Billy]

Strong cardboard, too.

[Dan LeBatard]

Number two.

[Jeff Pearlman]

All right, number two, I was in Lumberton, North Carolina. Everyone knows that Tupac's ashes are spread off at sea in Malibu, or most people do. I'm in Lumberton, North Carolina. Tupac's mother, Fanny Shakur, had a home in Lumberton, North Carolina, that she built years later, after Tupac died. No one's there anymore. It's been an abandoned lot for nine years. I got a tour of the lot by the caretaker, and he said to me, do you want to see where Tupac is buried? And I said, what do you mean? He goes, do you want to see Tupac's grave? And I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, just come with me. Before she died, Afendi Shakur took her the remaining Tupac ashes. Bury them. Has a tombstone up. So if you go to an abandoned lot in Lumberton, North Carolina, you can see the grave of Tupac Shakur. And I don't think anyone knows it's there.

[Dan LeBatard]

There's one better than that. So this is a good list. He's put together journalism. Everything this guy does is good, I tell you that. Jeff Pearlman. The book is Only God Can Judge Me, the Many Lives of Tupac Shakur. Number one. The number one best fact that Perlman unearthed and talking to more than 600 people.

[Jeff Pearlman]

All right, I'm gonna have to tell the very bridge version of this, but there's a song. Do you guys know the song? Some of you. Brenda's got a baby. But, yeah, okay, so Brenda's got a baby. Tupac was filming the movie Juice, and he. He's reading the New York Daily News outside his trailer in New York City, and there's an article called Cries in the night about a 12 year old girl who was raped by a cousin, delivered the baby on the bathroom floor, threw her baby down a trash heap. Tupac reads that article, goes into his trailer, writes the song Brenda's got a baby. That becomes Tupac's first really well known song. I thought it would be amazing to try and find the baby who was thrown down the trash heap. I work with a genealogist who called me one day and said, I think I have a number. I reach out to this guy, crudely, via text. His name is Davon Hodge. I go to Las Vegas. We sit down. He, in fact, was the baby who was thrown down the trash heap, and Brenda's got a baby. After he was thrown down, he was adopted by a family in Las Vegas. So I saw him in Vegas. His parents had died recently, so he did an ancestry Dot com search. And they all came back to this housing, public housing unit in Brooklyn, New York. He has his grand reunion with his family. They show him the place where he was thrown down the trash heap. They're like, oh. They say, do you know Tupac? He's like, of course. Like, do you like Tupac? I love Tupac. We think you're the baby from Brenda's Got a Baby. His family tells him this. It's his amazing moment. Wait, it gets crazier. I say to my genealogist, it would be amazing. My genealogist is named Michelle Suli. She's amazing. It'd be awesome if we could find the mother. She's like, well, that might be hard, but blah, blah, blah. She gets a number. One day, she calls this woman. She says, by any chance, is this Jeanette? Who's this? My name is Michelle. I'm working with the writer, Jeff Pearlman, about a book on Tupac Shakur. By any chance, did you have a baby when you were 12 years old? She starts screaming, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Do you know where my baby is? Do you know where my baby is? She's screaming and crying. Michelle says, yeah, we. We do. We found him. She goes, oh, my God. Oh, my God. I need to get home. I need to get home to Newark. I live in Newark. Well, where are you now? I'm at a concert. What concert? I'm going to see the Red Hot Chili Peppers tonight. Where are they playing? They're playing in Las Vegas. No matter. She met her son that night.

[Dan LeBatard]

No way.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Holy. That is a holy.

[Dan LeBatard]

Look at him. And then he drinks from the mug like, Kermit, look at him. Because he knows he nailed that story. He knows it is a good story. Do you have a best theory on how Tupac died?

[Jeff Pearlman]

Yeah, but it's not. It's not sexy. You guys saw it. It was a. It was the Mike Tyson, Bruce Seldon. Fight after fight, after the fight. Tupac is in the MGM Grand. He's with a guy named Trayvon Lane, a Death Row guy, a mob pyru guy. They see Orlando Anderson there. Orlando Anderson was a Compton Crip who had recently gotten in a fight with this guy, Trayvon Lane. Trayvon Lane points it out, says, that's Orlando Anderson. That's a guy who stole my chain. Tupac says, which guy? That guy right there. Tupac walks up to him, punches him in the face. All the Death Row guys pounce. I interviewed Orlando Anderson's closest friend, the guy who was punched, and he said, there's no way Orlando Anderson could come back to Compton having gotten beat up publicly by a rapper. Like, by a rapper. You just couldn't. Later that night, Orlando Anderson is driving around looking, looking, looking for Tupac. Tupac is just randomly driving down the street with Suge Knight hollering out at women along the strip in Vegas. Or lan Anderson is like, that's him. That's him right there. And they pull up on him and they shoot him. It's not even a sexy story because everyone wants him. A grand Puffy or Biggie conspiracy. The truth of the matter is you punch the wrong person at the wrong time, and that guy happened to be a member of the Compton Crips and got a revenge killing and killed him.

[Dan LeBatard]

You're reporting that as fact? It feels like. And I don't think that. I don't. But that's not. That is not fact. I've not heard that reported as fact anywhere.

[Jeff Pearlman]

No, it's been reported a lot of places as fact, and then it's surrounded by myth. I've talked to investigators. I've talked to people from death row. I've talked to people from the Compton Crips. I talked to Orlando Anderson's best friend. I personally, obviously, when you have a young death and a lot of conspiracy and Vegas and everything, you have a lot of rumors. But if it were not Tupac, if it were a guy named John Smith and another guy named Bob Jones, this would have been reported as fact long ago.

[Dan LeBatard]

Jeff, thank you for the work. It's always excellent. Only God can Judge Me Now. The Many Lives of Tupac Shakur. Thank you, sir.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Yeah, thanks for having me on. I appreciate you guys.

[Greg Cody]

Writing a book sounds like a lot of work.

[Mike Ryan]

Microwave bagels.

[Chris Cody]

He said it is right before he hung up.

[Dan LeBatard]

I mean, the way that stugats wrote a book is the way to write a book. Get everyone else to do the work for you. You. That's the way to do it.

[Billy]

Well, when I wrote the Pride of a Lion, I interviewed three people so that, you know, I can relate to what Pearlman went through.

[Chris Cody]

One of them was a lion.

[Billy]

That's correct. Well, he said no comment. The lion. So three people in. In addition to the lion. That's right. Thank you, Billy.

[Mike Ryan]

Wait a second.

[Dan LeBatard]

I should hit both of you with loser game show sounds.

[Billy]

It's okay. I'm retiring. Thank you, Billy. After today, this is a worldwide farewell.

[Dan LeBatard]

I've got the Boost mobile hotline to get to. But before I do that, I thought. And it'll remain, I suppose that Liam Cohen's most famous moment as a Jacksonville Jags coach was the following Duvall. But after losing 357 to the Rams, this is a close second.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Everything we said we didn't want to do did occur.

[Mike Ryan]

Well put, man. It's been a lot of those games.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Everything we said we didn't want to do did occur.

[Mike Ryan]

It did.

[Jeff Pearlman]

It really did.

[Greg Cody]

I mean, he didn't account for the Rams getting that good sleep.

[Billy]

Yeah, that's a nice game.

[Greg Cody]

I love the pause.

[Dan LeBatard]

Everything we said we we didn't want.

[Greg Cody]

To do did occur.

[Mike Ryan]

I like this guy.

[Chris Cody]

That was like he considered it for a second. Wait a second. Was it everything like.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Yeah, everything we said we we didn't want to do did occur?

[Dan LeBatard]

We wanted the Rams to get bad sleep on their flight over did occur.

[Mike Ryan]

Howdy, listeners. It's Mike Ryan and Chris Cody. Hey, everyone. Hey, Chris. We love hanging out so much. You were at my birthday the other day.

[Jeff Pearlman]

You're old.

[Mike Ryan]

You know what I saw in your hand?

[Jeff Pearlman]

What?

[Mike Ryan]

A can of Miller Light. Whether it's a can, whether it's a bottle, a draft pour of Miller Lite. The draft pour. You see that beautiful iconic color. Ah, the coldness right away.

[Greg Cody]

The ice coldness to it.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Oh, just so good.

[Mike Ryan]

Yes, Chris, the ice coldness to it. Oh, whether you're hanging out with me on my birthday because I'm old or you're at a game, you know that Miller Lite just makes every special time a Miller time. That's how you make the special times, by making a Miller times. Game day just hits different with Miller Lite in your hand hittin different from jaw dropping touchdowns to fantasy heartbreaks. It's a beer that has been there for every moment. 50 years of great taste, simple ingredients and that iconic golden color. That coldness, Chris, that icy coldness. That icy coldness. The original light beer since 1975 and still hitting different five decades later. Miller Lite Great Taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Icy coldness.

[Mike Ryan]

Quick break. Here to talk to you about the official ticketing partner of the Dan LeBatard show, folks, it's Mike Ryan. You know how much I love this product. I use it frequently. I'm often buying tickets on the secondary market and for me, gametime has always been the Best place to go for NFL tickets, Concert tickets, comedy shows. It's just the best. Here's why. Zone deals Favorites Panoramic seat views the lowest price guarantee where GameTime will credit you 110% of the difference. I love that thing. GameTime's ticket coverage. Your purchase is covered with the most flexible customer service policy in the ticketing industry. You get all those guarantees, pal. Join what many in our show have already done. They download that GameTime app because GameTime guarantees you can trust you'll be getting 100% authentic tickets on time and at the best price. Plus, fees are always included. So what you see is what you pay. Take the guesswork out of buying NFL tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account and use code DAN for $20 off your first purchase terms apply.

[Dan LeBatard]

Again.

[Mike Ryan]

Create an account and redeem code dan for $20 off. Swipe tap ticket. Go download the Gametime app today.

[Dan LeBatard]

All your favorite NBA players are back and DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports betting partner of the NBA, is the place to bet on NBA stars this season. New customers download the DraftKings sportsbook app now. Use Code Dan. That's Code dan to bet five bucks and get three months of NBA League Pass. Plus get $300 in bonus bets. If your bet wins in partnership with DraftKings, the Crown is yours.

[Greg Cody]

Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER in New York, call 877-8-HOPENY or text hopeny467-369 in Connecticut. Help is available for problem gambling.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org Please play responsibly on behalf of Boothill Casino and Resort in Kansas. Pass through of per wager.

[Greg Cody]

Tax May apply in Illinois 21 and over. Age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Void in Ontario, restrictions apply. Bet must win to receive, which expire in seven days. Minimum odds required.

[Greg Cody]

NBA League Pass Auto renews until canceled.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Additional terms at DKNG Co Audio limited time offer Don LeBatard, you are a fool. You're nobody.

[Dan LeBatard]

You are an infant.

[Jeff Pearlman]

You have nobody.

[Mike Ryan]

I literally put together Mike Ryan stage for your toenail.

[Billy]

Nobody.

[Dan LeBatard]

I am your career right now, pal.

[Chris Cody]

No.

[Dan LeBatard]

Look at me.

[Billy]

No.

[Dan LeBatard]

I am your career. No stugats.

[Mike Ryan]

You have messed with McDavid and now you're messing with me.

[Dan LeBatard]

And I'm more dangerous, pal.

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugach.

The Booze boost mobile hotline. Numbers 305486, Gotts 305-486-4689.

[Greg Cody]

That's right, Dan.

[Jeff Pearlman]

The Boost Mobile boldest take is presented by Boost Mobile, the newest 5G network in the country. Three pointers should not be described as from downtown. Three pointers should be described as from the suburb.

[Dan LeBatard]

When I was a kid, I thought.

[Mike Ryan]

That all dogs are boys and all cats girls.

[Jeff Pearlman]

There is way too much time between the end of the late afternoon game and the beginning of Sunday Night Football. The fan getting upset about the Panthers being shit on is one of the funniest things ever.

[Mike Ryan]

It's the Carolina Panthers.

[Greg Cody]

Jeremy Tache is the Chris Whittingham of Pablo Torres.

[Mike Ryan]

Last week, Dan said he had two.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Outstanding bets from across the decades.

[Mike Ryan]

And I just want to remind Dan that he has a third outstanding bet that has never been paid. Dan guaranteed that a certain team would not lose or he would eat poop. That team lost and he never ate poop. So, Dan, eat poop.

[Jeff Pearlman]

I have a scorching Trevor Lawrence take. Oh, my God, he blows.

[Mike Ryan]

He happens to blow.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Trevor Lawrence. He happens to blow.

[Dan LeBatard]

Put it on the poll, please. At Levittud show, is there way too much time between the 4pm the end of the 4pm game and Sunday Night Football because you're too addicted? Also put on the poll is Jeremy Tashay, the Chris Whittingham of Pablo Torres.

[Mike Ryan]

It's a compliment to Jeremy, honestly. Is it?

[Dan LeBatard]

How can there be too much time between. You need to. You need to shower. You need to get your life in order.

[Mike Ryan]

You shower, then you talk to your wife.

[Dan LeBatard]

You've spent six hours, seven hours in front of the television. You need that time to regroup before the single game that is Sunday night.

[Greg Cody]

Those 45 minutes are literally the get my shit together time or dinner.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Yeah.

[Mike Ryan]

Guys, your ignorance is showing here. That little window right there is what we call the NASCAR window. That's right. You can watch the end of many NASCAR races during that window and races like Talladega delivered. Guys, we're on the precipice of an amazing championship four. We already have Denny Hamlin, who is searching for his first ever Cup Series championship. We have Chase Brisco, who has been unique, unbelievable this season was without a team, found a new home racing the 19, his first superspeedway victory. Now we have Martinsville this weekend. It's the final chance for two drivers to punch their ticket. Who in that final eight will win the race potentially and automatically get to the final four? Who knows? Will there be a spoiler? Will Kyle Larson find his way into the championship four even though he didn't make the championship four last year after winning the most races. Guys, this is shaping up to be unbelievable and it can only be brought to you by nascar. That's right. NASCAR Gearhead is presented by NASCAR for all the latest insights and storylines. To find out when and where to watch, visit nascar.com the Punch their ticket.

[Dan LeBatard]

Reference is a train reference. Correct. When you say someone punches their tickets on a destination. So it is a largely hundred year old saying when people were most traveling by train. Right. I'm just. There are no other punch tickets. You punch a clock when you're punching in for work. But that's not a ticket. The only time a ticket is punched is when you're taking a train somewhere. Correct. It's not even a bus. Jessica's got some disputes as low with your bus story. Evidently she doesn't believe some parts of your first class bus story.

[Chris Cody]

Oh, when Anthony Peeler fought Kevin Garnett, he also punched a ticket.

[Dan LeBatard]

A big ticket.

[Greg Cody]

I would love to hear where this doubt is coming in play.

[Billy]

Wow.

[Dan LeBatard]

You're going to. In the next hours we will out a little more about this accusation. I've heard it whispered around the office. Whenever a lie is told around here, it spreads quickly in terms of accusatory people. And you're. You're not a known liar yet.

[Billy]

Really?

[Greg Cody]

I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.

[Jeff Pearlman]

That seat though, it kind of comes with it.

[Billy]

You're not a known liar, huh?

[Mike Ryan]

Greg? Greg.

[Greg Cody]

I'm not talking to me.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Greg.

[Mike Ryan]

We're just two weeks away from Denny Hamlin racing for his championship life while he is actively suing NASCAR as a team owner for Michael Jordan's team.

[Billy]

I can't wait for the NASCAR commissioner if there is such a person. Is it Silva?

[Mike Ryan]

Francis Frances? Yeah, they're super powerful.

[Billy]

Yeah. And handing the trophy to the guy suing them. That's going to be lovely.

[Dan LeBatard]

How many of you had any criticisms of last night's debut of NBC basketball brought back to life? This is really reaching across generations because the young players who were interviewed have no recollection whatsoever about the nostalgia being triggered for the over 40 year olds. Chris Cody mentioned that he the technical difficulties at the beginning gave him felt like balm. I am honestly surprised that more of these giant endeavors don't have more wrong in them. Like I already saw that NBC last night was a little bit physically closer to the players like right on them than I'm used to seeing. Even though plenty of people are trying to push the boundaries. I assume that this is all the streaming services are going to all pull. How do we push the boundaries on more access? How do we make the game more futuristic? What do we do in order to give you more inside the huddle?

[Chris Cody]

Dan, I'm gonna seize upon something you just said there about streaming networks because a lot of been made about, oh, it cost $650 to watch every single NBA game. This is ridiculous. We had opening night on broadcast television. We haven't had that in a gajillion years. You are getting more NBA basketball if you are a basic cable subscriber. And that's it. You're getting more NBA basketball for free than ever before that $650 number. That's if you're getting league pass. That's if you're getting Amazon Prime. That's if you're getting Peacock.

[Greg Cody]

That's if you want NBA every single night.

[Chris Cody]

Every single night. But if you're saying, hey, I can't afford it, all I have is basic cable. You're getting NBC, you're getting espn, and you're getting more than enough ABC games. You're getting way more than enough. The word streaming should not be in anyone's lexicon right now. The NBA is back and it's back on big time television. Well, until football comes back.

[Dan LeBatard]

I want to talk to you guys about how you're viewing some of this stuff. But just my wife just this last week decided I have to get control of this cable bill. I want to know what you guys think or know you're paying monthly because I do believe that this is such a sprawling thing. Now. My wife was alarmed when she realized what we're paying for as we're changing our cable package. And more alarmed when I said, and get raised baseball. She didn't understand why I was doing that. But I'm like, make sure that we have Tampa Bay raised baseball.

[Greg Cody]

Can you just get raised.

[Dan LeBatard]

What is the amount? What is the number? Do you guys know what is the highest number I can give you to shock you? Because I was surprised about what I'm paying a month once I, I find out and there was some overlap. She's trying to get rid of some of the overlap and the places where you get ripped off because you have multiple same subscriptions.

[Chris Cody]

This is what we're going to do, right, Dan? So first of all, you have obviously regular cable, right? Or whatever the equivalent of regular cable is, right? So you get tbs, tnt, all those channels, right? You get hbo. I know you get hbo, right? You got. Do you have.

[Dan LeBatard]

I have all the movie channels. Got Apple, all the Movie channels.

[Jeff Pearlman]

All of them?

[Dan LeBatard]

Them all?

[Chris Cody]

Even all of them. The movie channels.

[Dan LeBatard]

Everything.

[Greg Cody]

All you have all the movie channels?

[Dan LeBatard]

Those kind of movies, you pay.

[Jeff Pearlman]

You must pay two grand a month.

[Dan LeBatard]

Tell me what the numbers are for. That's our guess before we get to my number. No, it's not that high. It's not that.

[Greg Cody]

It's got Netflix. We're kind of like Netflix, right?

[Chris Cody]

Four digits. Is it four digits?

[Dan LeBatard]

It is not. No, it is not four digits.

[Mike Ryan]

$850.

[Dan LeBatard]

No, it's $1.

[Jeff Pearlman]

We're playing the game poor. Poorly.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's a little more. It's a little more than 500amonth and.

[Mike Ryan]

It doesn't seem as bad. I got a guy for you.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Talk to me. I pay the lowest here out of everybody.

[Mike Ryan]

I think you're paying more than that.

[Jeff Pearlman]

3.99.

[Billy]

You may need to get a second job.

[Dan LeBatard]

Do you know how much you're paying? Do you know how? Do you have any earthly idea how much you're paying?

[Billy]

No, but my chief of staff does.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Whatever my mom tells them it's probably double.

[Greg Cody]

I'll bet I'm paying what you're paying and it's making me a little nauseous.

[Chris Cody]

Really?

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah.

[Chris Cody]

Do you have all the movie channels?

[Greg Cody]

No.

[Chris Cody]

No. Wow. Then you should really be nauseous.

[Greg Cody]

Cuz I got like all the apps, you know. God knows what I'm.

[Mike Ryan]

It's. Soccer fans have to pay like $300 more.

[Chris Cody]

Guys, guys, it's not.

[Dan LeBatard]

I wasn't counting Red Zone in any of that stuff. I'm not baked into your cave.

[Greg Cody]

I think I have that baked in like Red zone.

[Dan LeBatard]

Red Zone by itself is between like 400 and $800 a year, is it not?

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, but you want to. Do you have YouTube TV? I do, yeah. So you can watch the end of.

[Dan LeBatard]

And I have to go non commercials as well because now I'm in. I just, just at this point I wonder how the audience feels about this. At this point, I simply can't do commercials.

[Chris Cody]

No, don't say that. We love commercials. Commercials are awesome.

[Mike Ryan]

What chaos. The hockey show figured this out.

[Chris Cody]

That's a good show.

[Mike Ryan]

It is a good show. It's the guy with the guy in the hat.

[Billy]

The white hat.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah. They figured out something at the hockey show. If you like to bet on hockey, as I'm one to do, as a lot of us do you want to watch the games live? ESPN's app decides they're gonna run a uniform. Time for ads every game. So they discovered why when I checked the score online Is it so far ahead of where I am in the game? You think you're watching a game live? You're not. They're baking in the ad time to however they see fit, and they'll catch you up when you get there. Like, the game runs on tape delay. You're not watching live games anymore.

[Chris Cody]

So streaming already is delayed from live TV via cable. But what these guys discovered was that on top of that delay, ESPN plus is delaying you even more because they don't care. So if you hit go live after the ad is over, it's not right where you are. It actually jumps ahead.

[Greg Cody]

Really?

[Mike Ryan]

Yes.

[Chris Cody]

They are playing. They're gaming the system to make sure their ads are watched at the expense of you being up to date on your watching thing. That's why I don't like. I'm not a big fan of the streaming. I am one of the last people. People who is a court keeper. I keep my cord because when I want to watch live sports, I want.

[Dan LeBatard]

It to be live for reals, I believe. Why'd you say that that way?

I don't know.

[Chris Cody]

I. I channeled Greg Cody there for real.

[Billy]

Well done.

[Chris Cody]

Thank you.

[Billy]

Really good.

[Chris Cody]

Thank you.

[Billy]

Should be a new character.

[Chris Cody]

It should.

[Billy]

What would the character be called, though?

[Chris Cody]

Leon Cody.

[Billy]

Okay. Thank you.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm on a Ryder Cup.

[Greg Cody]

Nice.

[Billy]

Yeah. Let's say where the Ryder cup guy owns. Owns the house.

[Mike Ryan]

Remember when Dan did that? Silly guy.

[Dan LeBatard]

Not as bad as making Ray Bork Ron Borges.

[Billy]

That's true.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Also trampling Zaz's question.

[Chris Cody]

That was the highlight of the show. That was the highlight of the show. We had so much fun back here just laughing at the way you just said, yeah, Zaz, that question sucks.

[Dan LeBatard]

He was just asking a form of the same question that I didn't get answered when he went on the Emmett Smith Divergent Path. And so I was just following up.

[Mike Ryan]

Again on the better question than that would be. Yeah, it's actually worse. Dan carried resentment into doing that.

[Greg Cody]

I feel like I'm gonna go back. I'll listen on the podcast later. My part of the questions could be edited out.

[Mike Ryan]

It was the same exact question, actually. Not what we would find most surprising. What you would find most surprising because.

[Greg Cody]

I asked you before and.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Yeah.

[Dan LeBatard]

Is that where we got the top five?

[Mike Ryan]

He did really well with that top. No, that number one answer was you.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Asked him for a top five.

[Mike Ryan]

What?

[Billy]

A top five. I'm serious. All five of those. Interesting.

[Dan LeBatard]

Wow.

[Billy]

I mean, to buy that book.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's it.

[Billy]

Wait till it comes out on Paperback.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Hanging out with crack dealers.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, he did some real journalism. That's, that's, that's a little bit harder to do than it used to be. 6. Most of the things you're reading and consuming don't talk to 600 and some odd people people before they get public. And it's dying. And very few people actually want that kind of thoroughness because he's getting frustrated by our attention span that lasts 20 tick tock seconds.

[Chris Cody]

Did everyone get the Greg Cody joke there about when it comes out in paperback? Because I don't think that exists anymore. As far as. No, as far as like it used to be a big thing in publishing. It's a hardcover. And then you wait, the paperback comes out and it's cheaper.

[Billy]

Right.

[Chris Cody]

I don't know if the listener now is aware of these 20 CB. 20 CB. Hey, where's that segment, Tony?

[Mike Ryan]

Oh, you're here.

[Chris Cody]

We could do it.

[Mike Ryan]

You did do a promo tour real quick for your paperback release, right?

[Dan LeBatard]

This is a new and unimproved Dan Levatar show with the Stugach gamble on by DraftKings.

[Mike Ryan]

Howdy, listeners. It's Mike Ryan and Chris Cody. Hey, everyone. Hey, Chris. We love hanging out so much. You were at my birthday the other day.

[Jeff Pearlman]

You're old.

[Mike Ryan]

You know what I saw in your hand?

[Jeff Pearlman]

What?

[Mike Ryan]

A can of Miller Love. Whether it's a can, whether it's a bottle, a draft pour of Miller Light. The draft pour. You see that beautiful iconic color right away.

[Greg Cody]

The ice coldness to it.

[Jeff Pearlman]

Oh, so good.

[Mike Ryan]

Yes, Chris, the ice coldness to it. Oh, whether you're hanging out with me on my birthday because I'm old or you're at a game, you know that Miller Light just makes every special time a Miller Time. That's how you make the special times by making a Miller Times. Game day just hits different with Miller Light in your hand hitting different. From jaw dropping touchdowns to fantasy heartbreaks, it's a beer that has been there for every moment. 50 years of great taste, simple ingredients and that iconic golden color. That coldness, Chris, that.

[Greg Cody]

That icy coldness.

[Mike Ryan]

That icy coldness. The original light beer since 1975 and still hitting different five decades later. Miller Lite Great Taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer there. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[Jeff Pearlman]

I see coldness.