Hour 1: Hit Em With The Hot Stove (feat. Dusty May)

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Hour 1: Hit Em With The Hot Stove (feat. Dusty May)

Date: April 9, 2026
Location: The Elser Hotel, Downtown Miami
Guests: Michigan head coach Dusty May

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Episode Overview

In this lively first hour, Dan, Stugotz, and the crew dive into major storylines in football and college basketball. The show spotlights Lamar Jackson's evolving legacy and contract dynamics in Baltimore, before welcoming NCAA basketball champion Dusty May. The team explores the pressures of coaching, the continuous grind after victory, building trust within programs, trading pizza party stories, and poking fun at awkward on-air moments. The segment offers characteristic humor, honest sports analysis, and insider glimpses into high-level athletics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Lamar Jackson and the Ravens: Collusion, Leadership, and Legacy

• Lamar's New Era in Baltimore:
  Dan hails Lamar Jackson for seizing control of the Ravens—“now it's Lamar Jackson's [franchise].” (02:20) The conversation emphasizes the rarity of a franchise quarterback, especially one who negotiated his own contract and overcame both skepticism and alleged league collusion.

• Concern about Hitting Physical Limits:
  The panel debates whether Lamar is losing his edge: “If Lamar Jackson loses a step, the Ravens are doomed.” – Dan (05:43)

• On Franchise Stability and Risks:
  “The Ravens have been... right there with the Patriots... the best organization. And now it's Lamar Jackson's. It belongs to him.” – Dan (02:27)

• The "Half-Step" Dilemma:
  The team humorously attempts to quantify how much Lamar might have lost. “The net loss is half a step, bordering on two thirds of a step.” – Greg Lobo (08:51)

• The Collusion Conversation:
  “The league colluded to keep costs down by not giving an MVP quarterback... what they would have given him...” – Dan (11:46)
  “Collusion can't be proved and is never admitted.” – Greg Lobo (11:51)

• Star Privileges & Power Struggles:
  Mike suggests Lamar has “privileges with the Ravens that other Ravens do not have”—without divulging specifics due to “valuing his sources.” (13:19)

• Pressure on Lamar:
  “Right now he's the great two time MVP who has been a career disappointment. ...He's never led his team to a Super Bowl. He's three and five in the playoffs.” – Greg Lobo (10:33)

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2. Interview with Dusty May: The Grind of Coaching & Building Championship Culture

• Business as Usual after a Title:
  Dusty May reveals the relentless pace post-championship, with recruiting and roster management taking immediate priority:
  “Hopefully we get our roster done and then we can take a deep breath and enjoy it a little bit.” – Dusty (22:35)
  “Delayed gratification, Dan.” – Dusty (22:54)

• Maintaining Team Chemistry in the Portal Era:
  “It's tough now because... every time you get one player, everyone on your roster feels like that might affect them.” – Dusty (23:39)

• Where’s the Joy?
  Dan questions if the demands of the job rob coaches of the joy after a championship. Dusty counters:
  “That moment on the stage is very touching, but the joy is every day in practice. It's how these guys interact with each other...” (25:04)
  “I almost had a human emotion... but someone honked at me at a red light.” – Dusty (25:44)
  “Those emotions are going to flow, I just don't know when or where.” – Dusty (25:57)

• On Unique Leadership Challenges:
  Dusty weighs in on NBA coach Michael Malone’s transition to North Carolina:
  “If he can get everyone in that organization moving in the same direction... then he'll be successful. …It's tough to predict. It's a crapshoot.” (27:06)

• Embracing Program Legends:
  May values the involvement of Michigan’s Fab Five:
  “They’re iconic, they're synonymous with Michigan basketball. ...We've got to do more to honor them.” (28:29)

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3. Team Building, Pizza Parties, and Chemistry

• Championship-Building Events:
  Addressing team bonding, Dusty is candid about the popular “pizza party” story:
  “I don't think it was one moment... our guys really believed that their best interests are the most important thing we do... winning is a byproduct of us pouring into them.” (29:58)

• The Pizza Party Debate:
  “You think we're champions because I had a pizza party?” – Dusty, jokingly (31:16)
  “That was the firestarter, the pizza party.” – Greg Lobo (31:31)

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4. Zaslow's Awkward Question & Team Banter

• Most Memorable Moment:
  Zaslow asks: “Did the winning feel better than losing in the final four with FAU?” (33:06)
  The room erupts:
  “You just asked the man if winning felt better than losing.” – Dan (34:01)
  “We looked at each other, we're like, man, that was a stupid question.” – Mike (42:15)

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5. Coaching Tactics and ‘Hot Stove’ Defense

• Coaching Physicality:
  “In basketball, how do you coach violence?” – Mike (39:51)
  Dusty explains tactics: “...the hot stove, where you just stick [the opponent] and then show your hands. ...The officials... don't really want to stop play…” (40:28)
  “That's good. That's good. Evolution.” – Dan (41:05)

• On Recruiting Bigger Players:
  “...this year we went and got guys that looked like Merez Johnson... and threw those guys out there into the warfare.” – Dusty (41:05)

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6. Lighter Segments & Promotions

• Tipping on an $18.50 Beer – Ethical Dilemma:
  “I think you get guilted into it.” – Dusty (38:08)
  “No tip is $1 for me.” – Dusty (38:13)

• Plug for "Made in March" Docuseries:
  “It’s actually real. It's how we are behind the scenes.” – Dusty (37:07)

• Best Teams Faced:
  “UConn and Arizona both were exceptional in their own way... Arizona was deeper... and UConn, with their winning pedigree... just so physical...” – Dusty (38:48)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Lamar’s Power & Risks:
  “When you lose a half step around Myles Garrett and T.J. Watt, might result in death.” – Mike (05:48)
  “If Lamar Jackson loses a step, the Ravens are doomed.” – Dan (05:43)
• On Collusion:
  “The league colluded to keep costs down...” – Dan (11:46)
  “Collusion can't be proved and is never admitted.” – Greg Lobo (11:51)
• On Coaching Joy:
  “That moment on the stage is very touching, but the joy is every day in practice…” – Dusty May (25:04)
• The Pizza Party Myth:
  “You think we’re champions because I had a pizza party?” – Dusty (31:16)
  “That was the firestarter, the pizza party.” – Greg Lobo (31:31)
• Zaslow’s Viral Flub:
  “Did the winning feel better than losing in the final four with FAU?” – Zaslow (33:06)
  “You just asked the man if winning felt better than losing.” – Dan (34:01)
• On Defensive Tactics:
  “...the hot stove, where you just stick them and then show your hands.” – Dusty May (40:28)

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Quote | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:09 | Dusty May intro; preview of topics | | 02:20 | Dan on Lamar Jackson’s influence in Baltimore | | 05:43 | "If Lamar Jackson loses a step, the Ravens are doomed." | | 08:51 | Discussion of Lamar’s “half-step” loss (Greg Lobo, Dan, et al) | | 11:46 | Collusion around Lamar’s contract (Dan, Mike, Greg Lobo) | | 13:19 | Mike reveals Lamar’s “star privileges” | | 22:35 | Dusty May on post-title coaching grind | | 25:04 | Dusty on finding joy in daily coaching | | 28:29 | Fab Five and Michigan basketball legacy | | 29:58 | Building chemistry and trust—beyond the pizza party | | 31:16 | Pizza party myth & gentle teasing | | 33:06 | Zaslow’s “winning vs. losing” question; ensuing banter | | 37:07 | Dusty plugs the docuseries "Made in March" | | 38:08 | Dusty’s thoughts on tipping for an $18.50 beer | | 38:48 | Best teams faced: UConn, Arizona, Duke | | 40:28 | Dusty explains defensive “hot stove” technique |

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Episode Tone & Style

In true Le Batard fashion, the show blends sharp, sometimes contrarian sports takes, humor, and a willingness to poke fun at both sports culture and themselves. The banter is playful but insightful: expert sports analysis is wrapped in jokes, gentle ribbing, and self-deprecating storytelling. Dusty May matches the crew’s candor, offering revealing thoughts on the reality of coaching, the precariousness of joy after success, and the importance of genuine connection in high-level athletics.

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For Further Listening

• Tune into the "Local Hour" for more South Florida-centric commentary.
• Dusty May: Watch "Made in March" docuseries (“really pulled the curtain back” – Dusty, 37:07).
• For future episodes, track the evolving storylines around Lamar Jackson’s legacy and Stugotz’s next hot take.

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Transcript

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[Dan LeBatard]

This is the Dunn Levator show with the Stugats Podcast.

[Greg Lobo]

This episode of the Dan Lebatart show is presented by DraftKings. DraftKings. The Crown is yours.

[Dan LeBatard]

I probably should have mentioned that our friend Dusty May is going to rejoin us. I'm grateful for that. We don't really deserve it. The last time he was on with

[Zaslow]

us, does that he get into Waymo?

[Dan LeBatard]

The last time he was on with us, Zaslow was disrespectful throughout the interview by driving to south beach in a driverless car. Anyway, the head of the national head coach of the national champion Wolverine told us he'd come back on if they want and so now he's going to come back on. David Sampson will be on with us a little bit later in the show, but Lamar Jackson, which is where I should have ended up earlier if I'd been thinking straightly. Lamar Jackson has shown up at camp and I think something interesting has happened in Baltimore. It's been one of the most stable franchises there. They even ran Mike Tomlin off the road like they're a wildly stable thing and not quietly. The quarterback won a fight over the leadership of that team that has that being Lamar Jackson's MVP team. He got in negotiations with a league that was colluding against him with no

[Mike]

agent to be a wide receiver.

[Dan LeBatard]

Nope. Well, not no after that.

[Mike]

Actually, even during the cubicle when he's

[Dan LeBatard]

an MVP of the league and is a free agent and no team needs him because everything is colluded. Like no, the owners were not going to get into a bidding war for the MVP of the League and change their salary structure. That happened. What I'm saying here, Zaslow, somehow quietly, Lamar Jackson, okay. In the age of the diva quarterback and the diva wide receiver without an agent, Lamar Jackson now runs the Ravens. And he runs the Ravens when he cannot afford to lose a single step. The Ravens are now like structurally they've been for a long time through their mafioso owner and Ozzie Newsom and everyone else for 20 years, whistling through his teeth. For 30 years, the Ravens have been like right there with the Patriots and the best of the best through a whole assortment of quarterbacks. They're the best organization. And now it's Lamar Jackson's. It belongs to him. They ran off a Harbaugh golden royalty in the sport. And now after we saw a year Bill Poly and yelling at the beginning of that, that's not a quarterback, not in our league. That's a wide receiver. Now he loses a little bit of skill. How much skill? He's still got great passing skill. But what people are worried about are the this much that made him better athletically. When you can't be that at 29 in that sport. Like if you're getting used to LeBron playing at 41. Not in that sport. Not with what they do to their bodies. Like Lamar Jackson has ground through his ligaments too, playing the way that he plays. And if he loses a step, what does it mean that the Ravens are playing in a margin of? If Lamar loses a step, we're no longer a great organization.

[Mike]

You would think him showing up to the first day of OTAs wouldn't be news, but it is news because Lamar Jackson hasn't shown up to the first day of OTAs consistently throughout his time in Baltimore.

[Zaslow]

And it's new coach.

[Mike]

It's a new coach. And it's also a sign that I think Lamar understands how important this season is for him because the John Harbaugh excuse is gone. If you talk to people in the know like I have problem, there was John Harbaugh and Lamar Jackson not exactly being on the same page. John Harbaugh trying to hold Lamar Jackson a little bit more accountable. Lamar Jackson not exactly being a fan of that. Lamar Jackson has been given some liberties that you know that you see around the league with certain stars, but liberties that are special for the Baltimore Ravens. Now he is at a point where we got rid of John Harbaugh. We have a new coach. You are still our quarterback. We're trying to seize on this window, but you got zero guaranteed money coming to you after 2020. 7. They can get rid of you at any time. And this is a quarterback is 29 years old, a quarterback like we've never seen in this league before, with physical traits that have ascended him to the heights of multiple time mvp. But if he loses just a little bit of a step, and there are signs of that, I'm.

[Dan LeBatard]

Are there signs of a little bit of a lost step?

[Mike]

I am afraid he's about to lose a step. And by conceding that, gentlemen, I think he might have lost a half step.

[Dan LeBatard]

Wow.

[Greg Cody]

But when you're six steps ahead, losing

[Dan LeBatard]

a half a step, he wasn't six steps ahead. He was like two and a half steps ahead.

[Zaslow]

How many steps equal, like a win? Like if he's this, if he loses

[Dan LeBatard]

two half is one says. I think we're in agreement mathematically without any of the advanced metrics that if Lamar Jackson loses a step, the Ravens are doomed.

[Mike]

Here's what you're not considering. Losing a half step around miles Garrett and T.J. watt might result in death.

[Greg Lobo]

Wow.

[Zaslow]

So we're not even talking games here. We're talking a half step can be end of life.

[Mike]

It could be what if you lose

[Greg Cody]

a half a step but you're hungrier?

[Mike]

I don't doubt his hunger.

[Greg Cody]

So he's like hungrier. You know, it balances out. Hunger level has gone up, but his step has gone down a half.

[Zaslow]

I don't know about that.

[Mike]

There are plenty of dudes that when they approach that, okay, doubt my physical traits, I'm going to work out harder, I'm going to be in the best shape of my life. And then the way they play the game catches up to them.

[Dan LeBatard]

Can we just, can we talk though for just a second? In the analysis of what it takes to be MVP of that league, that physical league, okay, in your prime and whatever the prime is. Because I assume we all think that Josh Allen is going to be the MVP for a while or in the conversation because his body type is going to hold up, or has held up against almost everything, even though he too plays hurt a thousand different ways. A quarterback who was questioned at the very beginning, could this play in this league as a quarterback by the six time executive of the year. And the answer from that six time executive of the year was no, you don't draft him as a quarterback. That guy runs through his body. And at 29, when you say just be more athletic than everyone else, the answer is no. It's going to have to be from the pocket. Like you saw that last year, however injured he Already is. I don't know if that's him or him trying to play hurt, but last year, that wasn't Lamar Jackson. That was not an MVP of the league. That's not someone who's a threat on both corners to run 40 yards. That's somebody who's gonna have to win from the pocket.

[Luke Thomas]

No.

[Mike]

You'd be surprised, but the advanced passing measurements actually really love Lamar Jackson. But we've seen it with guys like Aaron Rodgers, and he was older, but when you lose a step.

[Dan LeBatard]

Ten years older, though, Mike.

[Mike]

I know, but when you lose a step in that league, things unravel. We seen it with Russell Wilson at a younger age than we've come to expect. We've seen it with Cam Newton. This is a concern that I have with Josh Allen. I do think it's. It's safe to say, like, when your physical skills diminish even a little bit, when you're that far ahead of the rest of the pack, what does that look like?

[Greg Lobo]

It's happened Fairly suddenly because two years ago, in 2023, he's the MVP. In 2024, he throws 41 touchdown passes. Fantastic season. Could have been the MVP again. Looked like he had gained a step.

[Dan LeBatard]

What?

[Greg Lobo]

It looked like he had. He's right.

[Dan LeBatard]

No, he's right.

[Mike]

He's right.

[Luke Thomas]

He's right.

[Greg Lobo]

Yes, he's right.

[Dan LeBatard]

Greg's right.

[Greg Lobo]

In 23 and 24, Lamar Jackson, he gained a step.

[Dan LeBatard]

I've never heard of gaining the mvp. And then he gained a step three years ago.

[Greg Lobo]

But what that means is he's actually lost a step and a half because he lost what he had gained.

[Greg Cody]

Hold on.

[Dan LeBatard]

He's confirming what Mike is saying. No, Mike, he agrees with you. He gained a step, but he lost a step and a half. Therefore, he's lost half a step.

[Greg Lobo]

The net loss is half a step, bordering on two thirds of a step.

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, that's where I land.

[Mike]

Do we do two thirds of a step?

[Dan LeBatard]

I think he's lost the step. I think, guys, we know this. You guys think last year was an injury year or it's the beginning of what his future is going to look like.

[Mike]

Injury year, he was just off, like Greg said, where he should have won the MVP, where he threw 41 touchdowns, four picks, and ran for almost a thousand yards.

[Dusty May]

Okay?

[Mike]

But the injury year matters. Just like the injury year that happened before. That matters.

[Dusty May]

He had Covid seven times.

[Mike]

That's another part of this. And he's like, the only NFL star that we've ever had to worry about. Load Management with. Because he had his contract in which, you know, the league colluded against him. Lamar Jackson throughout his entire career has proven people wrong repeatedly. And I think this year there is more skepticism on him than ever because a lot of the excuses are out. This is the very tail end, I think of what this Ravens window is with Lamar Jackson being a superhuman at the position. So I'm curious to see how it plays out.

[Greg Lobo]

Nobody's a fan of L. Jack like me. He's been a Greg Lobo stalwart for years. I've drafted him a lot in fantasy.

[Zaslow]

Do you think that name's going to catch on L. Jack?

[Greg Lobo]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, big time. But I'll tell you this.

[Greg Cody]

He's been on the podcast.

[Greg Lobo]

He was a fantasy nightmare last season. Not. Not just.

[Luke Thomas]

Okay, that's a nightmare.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's important analysis.

[Greg Lobo]

He was a fantasy nightmare.

[Zaslow]

I'm listening.

[Greg Lobo]

That's a microcosm for where his career is headed.

[Dan LeBatard]

You expect giant stats from him and when you don't get giant stats, the fantasy head is wrong. That is excellent analysis.

[Greg Lobo]

Okay, we're all dancing around what's obvious

[Greg Cody]

with Lamar dancing swords.

[Greg Lobo]

Okay. We're all dancing around the fact that right now he's the great two time MVP who has been a career disappointment.

[Dan LeBatard]

Okay.

[Greg Lobo]

He's never won, he's never led his team to a Super Bowl. He's three and five in the playoffs.

[Mike]

That's harsh, dude. Career disappointment.

[Greg Lobo]

The pressure is on Lamar Jackson to prove it in the postseason.

[Mike]

Yes.

[Greg Lobo]

Just like it is on Josh Allen. There's no difference.

[Mike]

Yes, I agree with that. But a dude that was being projected as a wide receiver by hall of Fame executives, I don't think that's a disappointment by any measure.

[Dan LeBatard]

So no, let's let. This is great for a number of different reasons. Okay? But Greg Cody saying, okay, that the big unspoken elephant in the room is that Lamar Jackson, multiple time mvp, who was never supposed to be a quarterback in the league is a disappointment. Is something you guys want to seize on, but we're not going to seize on Mike just shrugging, shrugging his shoulders and saying, and the league colluded against him. Like as a matter of fact, he was the MVP of the league. Everyone needed a quarterback. Nobody bid on him. Why does no one object to that?

[Mike]

That's strange. Well, Pablo did.

[Dan LeBatard]

But why, why is this? Why is he like the absurdity of saying is fact. Yeah, the league colluded there. The league colluded to keep costs down by not giving an MVP quarterback at the end of his career what they would have given him if everybody was fighting over the money.

[Greg Lobo]

Yeah, but collusion was involved with Colin Kaepernick as well. The reason it's not a bigger deal is that collusion can't be proved and is never admitted.

[Dan LeBatard]

But my point to you is that one conversation merits serious argument and it's not whether or not Lamar Jackson's career is as a disappointment when all he did was threaten the league's salary structure, then the owners just shrugged and said, yeah, we're not gonna pay you like that.

[Zaslow]

I think it's cuz we all know that it's true and there's nothing we

[Dusty May]

can do about it.

[Mike]

Look, Josh Allen benefited from this until they lost to the Broncos. Lamar Jackson benefited from until last year where guys like Nick Wright and big time voices in the sport are like, hey, you're not doing Jack in the playoffs. L. Jack. And he is now at that point where he not only has to do that, but also answer some questions that the franchise may have about him because they have removed every excuse.

[Dan LeBatard]

But Chris, can you get me. I want to coax Mike out here because he's an insider, you know, pretending and hiding in the outsiders world. But he said something during some of what sounded like his reporting around Lamar Jackson that felt. Felt like,

[Greg Cody]

oh my God, he knows. He happens to know. Come everyone come and listen. He happens to know.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well informed, as you heard him just say casually because there must be details here. Lamar Jackson has privileges with the Ravens that other Ravens do not have. You said it. As a matter of fact, I've not seen that reported anywhere.

[Mike]

No, because I value my. My sources and there's multiple on.

[Dan LeBatard]

On.

[Mike]

On this front.

[Zaslow]

What's the point in a source if you're not going to give the information?

[Mike]

Well, because I did give the information. You want to hear specifics and I'm saying he's a. I'm not going to give you specifics because I value my relationships. Which is why I'm able to tell you with full confidence that Lamar Jackson has certain star privileges that are different and like good.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's good work. That's good work by you and, and

[Zaslow]

that's how you follow up in journalism.

[Dan LeBatard]

I want to. This is what I want to corner at least a little bit. Okay, because you didn't file it as a happen to know. I coaxed out a happens to know because it's. It sounded like you were giving us information that I haven't heard reported elsewhere. And Zaz is not wrong to ask would. Is there Any more information there that you'd like to share or can I just throw the hypothetical at you of. Yes, of course. Star player stays apart from his teammates and lives a different life in some sorts of ways because that was the Barry Bonds diva deal. He got a better hotel suite on the road.

[Zaslow]

Didn't we learn that about Jimmy too,

[Dan LeBatard]

like, and a lot of people like a lot of stars do we have. Did we want to ask any follow up questions?

[Mike]

Look at the sandbox that you're playing in. You guys are doing great. No, I'm good saying what I said. And John Harbaugh took issue with some of these liberties that were afforded to Lamar Jackson and have been, by the way. And Lamar Jackson has excelled. And I don't think Lamar Jackson is alone in the league in getting some of these privileges. He was kind of alone with that franchise and getting some of these privileges. Some of that stuff makes people uncomfortable. And when you're not as available or as excellent or you're not having the results that you've come to expect, things like what happened in Baltimore happened. Remember, it's not just the first time John Harbaugh and the Ravens were at a crossroads. It was announced John Harbaugh was leaving that franchise. Lamar Jackson got installed as the quarterback. Lamar Jackson saves John Harbaugh's bacon, to which he was bought in on some of this. But you get some diminishing returns, people start resenting some of those star privileges. Lamar Jackson won that power struggle at an age with a skill set, with a guy that's not as readily available as you maybe want him to be. He won the power struggle against a head coach that won a Super bowl with that franchise. Excuses are gone now. He's got no guaranteed money after 2027. Let's see how this plays out as he's 29 years old.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, so listen to what he's saying there though on the contract details on basically what he's saying. Lamar Jackson is in a contract year. He's at the end of what would be his physical prime at any other time in human expense of the body that football does over 10 years where you're like, yeah, if you're going to play like that, you're probably not going to play like that till you're 41 or 45. Brady can play like that. But if you're going to play like that, we're buzz sawing through running backs three and five years. We're going to get Lamar Jackson's best in this window. He's in a contract year against the entirety of the machine like this guy has fought. Do you realize that if Lamar Jackson says, damn right, privileges, I was the MVP of the league in the bigger sport than basketball. If basketball stars are going to have this power, I don't even need an agent to exert mine. Give me my money and I'll do some appearances. And I'm a star. And I'm a star in the modern age because I'm the MVP of the league that America's culture values the most. So, of course he'd arrive at the position.

[Mike]

There's always that shift after college hoops ends where you think things are going to slow down, and instead it's just different sports pulling you in. Now it's baseball. Every night you swear you're only half watching, and then suddenly you're locked into the seventh inning. Then you flip over. It's the cars making left turns for three hours, and somehow you're locked in. This was me, actually, the other night. I told myself I'd just stay home, keep it casual. Then my buddy, College Mike texted me, hey, come through. We've got everything on. And I said, yeah. I picked up a pack of Miller Lite on the way. The next thing you know, we've got multiple screens going. Everybody's locked in on something different, and the whole night just builds and builds to one of those moments where you take a sip, you look around and you realize, yeah, this was the right call. Cheers to legendary moments with Miller Lite. Great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

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[Dan LeBatard]

LeBatard this is the quickest it goes. Hey, this is the quickest it goes. Stugats, everybody. This is the quickest it goes. Yeah. This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats. Value me in a way that would feel undervalued and then the owners choke him out.

[Dusty May]

Mm.

[Mike]

Which is, I think something that you said there is interesting that I kind of forgot part of the collusion. You could as subtext you could theorize part of the collusion was the establishment didn't like how unorthodox Lamar Jackson chose to represent himself. Remember, he did load management in a sport where that is not a thing that's associated with it.

[Dan LeBatard]

Can I can I ask you guys, though, just the mindset of whatever you imagine somebody in their early 20s whose best in the world at not just athletics, but the corner of entertainment and culture too. Oh, you're an authentic quarterback kind of different. Much different than all the others. Your constituency might not be what everyone else's constituency is. In the age of the Manning cast, Lamar Jackson, unquestioned superstar in that league on merit earned with arm and legs. Huge star in the league. 1 of 5 Guys, polarized conversation wherever you have it. Of course Lamar Jackson would come by the opinion. I'll practice when I wish. I'll show up to OTAs when I wish. I'm the star of this team. I grew up in LeBron's age and I'm the best quarterback. I'm going to behave like burrow. I know I'm the best. I'm the MVP of the league. And then the owners collude and we skip past that part like it's. It's a fairly amazing thing to skip fast. Wouldn't you agree? Dusty May is with us. I have taken up too much of his time. I didn't know why Chris Cody was waving at me. And then I remembered, oh, we've got a champion in our midst again. He must think we're a sloppy organization. Dusty, thank you for joining us. What do you remember of your last time with us? I was afraid you wouldn't keep your promise and come back because. Because Zaslow was distracting the last time you were on with us. And Greg Cody was singing fal al on the prowl.

[Greg Lobo]

On the prowl. Congratulation for the championship.

[Dusty May]

Thank you guys. I just remember the waymo the self driving car.

[Zaslow]

I'm back.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yes. He got back. Okay. Coach Lie, congratulations. Has your life changed the last couple of days?

[Dusty May]

I don't know. We've kind of been hunkered down. It's portal season and we have a couple of guys going through the draft process. So there's, there's a lot going on. You know, hopefully we get our roster done and then we can take a deep breath and enjoy it a little bit.

[Dan LeBatard]

That seems not right. It seems like you should be joyous and not have to get immediately right back to work.

[Dusty May]

Delayed gratification, Dan.

[Dan LeBatard]

Okay, so really you're already. So now is the time to capitalize is the point. Right. You're at the height of the business. You can't let your foot off the gas. This is the best time to keep building.

[Dusty May]

Yeah. This next week or two is the sweet spot. This will determine if we have enough to play in Detroit in the final four next year. The, you know, this, this gives this window, gives us an opportunity to put together another really, really good team. So we've got a fundraise. We've got to connect with the right people and keep the. Keep the guys in our program that are here and then add a little bit to that, to that mix.

[Zaslow]

Coach, I know players like Lindenberg is going to wind up going to the NBA draft, but are you finding yourself having to recruit back your own players,

[Dusty May]

not necessarily the ones that are in the NBA. We just have to be patient while they go through their process. But the other returners of all, like myself, said that they want 100% wanted to come back. And so now it's just dotting the I's and crossing the T's. But no, there hasn't been a long recruitment process with our current players. They've been committed to doing it the way we did it last year. And so we have great competition and some young guys coming in, so. But no, we haven't spent much time re recruiting our old guys. And to be honest, if they don't want. If they want something else, then, you know, we'll have a conversation. But it's not like we're going to try to convince them or trick them to come back. We're going to paint a very clear picture of what this looks like. And. But it's tough now because the tension and every time you get one player, everyone on your roster feels like that might affect them. And so if you have more than one guy on your roster, then you're facing the scrutiny from everyone.

[Dan LeBatard]

Dusty, you've gotten right back to business in a way that frightens me. And so I just. The thing that I would love to understand is where the joy in all of this was in terms of reaching your dreams and. And surpassing them, I would imagine in some way. Like, I can't even imagine what your last four days are like. And the idea that you would have to immerse yourself right back into running the business of it makes it feel like it has less joy around it than it seems like it should from over here.

[Dusty May]

Yeah, fortunately for me, that's kind of how I'm wired. Anyway, that moment on the stage is very touching, but the joy is every day in practice. It's how these guys interact with each other, the relationships they're building, the moments with our staff. And then the final prize is just kind of a culmination of all that. But I'll be honest, I was listening to a podcast on the way in this morning, and after the championship, one of our players, he literally was crying during the interview. And that's the closest I've came to breaking down in tears. And, like, you know, really enjoying the moment. I didn't quite get there, but I was close. I think I probably. Someone started honking at me on a red light, so it kept me from it, but.

[Dan LeBatard]

So you almost had. You almost had a human emotion, but you were able to push it down. If someone had honked, it would have squirted out of you, but you were able to just push it down like a real man.

[Zaslow]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dusty May]

Base. No, it's. It's going to happen. They're. They're going to flow. I just don't know when or where. But I do know once we have our roster set for next year, then. Then my feet. I'm going to enjoy it.

[Mike]

The feet get kicked off.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yes. No, that's not going to happen. He's got to be a robot animal because he's competing against all the other robot animals and there's no time to slow down. I have found you. I have found you honest and charming. And so maybe you can settle discussion. We've been having here more honestly and more informed the last couple of days. Michael Malone goes to North Carolina. And I'm saying to myself, perhaps ignorantly, what does he know about the skill set required the day he walks through the door? What he's been doing has nothing to do with the job he has today. And I don't think, you know, he may get qualified at that job, but that's not the job he's been doing because it's a totally different job. Can you walk us through this thicket without disparaging Michael Malone when I question this hire? Because I'm like, his expertise might have been great. It's not what. It's not what Dusty May has to do. X's and O's is almost in some ways the least important part of what Dusty May has to do because he's got to run the entirety of a business.

[Dusty May]

Yeah, Dan, I've tried to actually put a lot. We as a staff have put some time trying to think about, like, why we were able to do what we did because we just. We just put our head down, pour into these guys every single day. And what we've. What we've learned is that it's the connection throughout the program and the trust. And so I don't know, Coach Malone, obviously, being an NBA champion, I would assume that if he can develop trust in his organization with this team, they can acquire. They're going to acquire good players. Everyone at our level has really good players. Some have exceptional players, and this year we did as well. But if he can get everyone in that organization moving in the same direction and bought into the same goal and mission and they trust him and he trusts them, then he'll be successful. So I, you know, when people ask me, is this a good hire? There have been several times a guy was hired and I said, man, that's a great hire. And then that guy flopped. And then there've been other times where I said, man, I don't know how that's going to work. And the guy is one of the best coaches in our game. So it's, it's tough to predict. It's. It's a crap shoot. But I would have to spend time with him as a human to guess if it's going to be successful or ultra successful there for him.

[Zaslow]

Coach, since you won on Monday night, can you tell us about some interactions you've had with some of the former great players at Michigan? Like specifically the Fab Five, who of course were in attendance.

[Dusty May]

Yeah, I've been texting with those guys and communicating with them and actually spoke with Jalen for a while yesterday. C. Webb, Jimmy, all of them. And obviously Juwan and I developed a strong relationship as he was. The first call I made, actually the second call after I made after taking the Michigan job because I wanted background information on the players and things like that. So those guys have been unbelievable. We've got to do more to honor them. We're trying to, as a staff to get them even back and more connected. They're iconic, they're synonymous with Michigan basketball. And man, we have a lot of respect for those guys and admiration. So, yeah, we've communicated with them regularly since we got the game.

[Dan LeBatard]

How old were you when the Fab Five were introduced to your life? Like what? When you were watching the Fab Five play, how old were you?

[Dusty May]

I take a stab. Probably 14 or 15. And the only reason I know that is because one year in AAU basketball, our team in Bloomington, Indiana modeled our uniforms after the Fab Fives and we were under the Bloomington Red umbrella. And we actually became Bloomington Blue for a summer and had maize and blue uniforms with a capital B. And so that's the only reason I

[Greg Lobo]

remember that, Dusty, you took a team full of transfers, a team full of strangers, won a championship by developing such chemistry. When you look back to the summer and that event you had at your house and the pizza truck, what role did that play in bringing the team together in close knit pizza?

[Dusty May]

You know, I think it's just all of those things wrapped up into one. I Don't think it was one moment. I don't think it was one event. I think it was just our guys really believed that their best interests are the most important thing that we do. I mean, and the winning is a byproduct of us pouring into them, helping them be their best and teaching them what winning is and what being a great human being is. And the winning just kind of happened. But and also, I think also, you know, one, one important component is them seeing our staff as fathers, as, as husbands, as just normal people outside those lines. And then also just the players connecting with, with different guys on the team other than the roommates or other than the guys they lift weights with. So on a number of levels, we just try to do that as much as we possibly can because it's, it's, it's a process. We're all learning each other. But I do think trust was, was developed and earned in, in all those moments.

[Greg Cody]

Dusty, I love pizza parties. How do you decide how many pizzas

[Zaslow]

you're going to get?

[Greg Cody]

Like, is it like three slices per, per guy? How we handle.

[Dan LeBatard]

Put it on the poll. Do you love a pizza party? Everybody loves.

[Dusty May]

No, it's a pizza truck and he pulls up and everyone, everyone, he throws out several smart food garlic bread and then you can order whatever kind of pizza you want.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, but Dusty, I appreciate Dusty's. No, but he's also really gentle because he just told you. Really, Greg? You think we're champions because I had a pizza party?

[Greg Lobo]

Yes.

[Dan LeBatard]

Is that what that had to help? He just said there were many such events and it wasn't the one pizza party. He was very delicate about how he did that.

[Greg Lobo]

That was the firestarter, the pizza party.

[Dan LeBatard]

It is. You're right, you're right. It was. You know what? I stand corrected. It was the fire starter. You said the last time that you were on with us that you didn't expect it to happen this fast. I don't know what you would have take us back right before you're going on that run at fau, the of your dreams ends where like you're already beyond your expectations, are you not?

[Dusty May]

Dan? I played one class basketball in the state of Indiana at a small school and we felt like if we won our sectional, then that was our pinnacle moment. And we never thought about winning the state championship. And I think a lot of the low and mid majors feel like if you make the NCAA tournament, you just accomplished a national championship or final four. And so we just went on, on that climb and then when we Went to the sweet. Kyle Church on my staff said after the first round game, he said, we're going to be double digit favorites to go to the sweet 16. Say that out loud. And I said, you know, I don't even talk about it. Let's just focus on the preparation. And then we made the sweet 16. And our mindset was like, we just made the sweet 16 at FAU. This is incredible. And at that point we're like, why stop now? We obviously are really, really good and talented. And so this one felt a lot different than that when we were just lost in the fight. This one, the first couple rounds, I felt a little bit at. I felt more pressure internally that we can't screw this up because of how much talent and the type of season we've had. And so both had a wide range of emotions, but they felt completely different.

[Zaslow]

Coach, did the winning feel better than losing in the final four with fau?

[Dusty May]

It felt better, yes. And once again, like, I know that I'm off. When, when that shot went in on San Diego State, the first thing I thought was we made several errors.

[Dan LeBatard]

Did you just ask him if winning the championship felt better than losing the

[Zaslow]

championship feel better than losing felt bad?

[Mike]

No, it says, but it's good. You got to the heart of it. He confirmed that winning is better than losing.

[Dusty May]

We run a very psychological safe program and you can make mistakes and as long as you learn from it.

[Zaslow]

Did you understand what I was asking though?

[Dan LeBatard]

Coach being gentle?

[Greg Lobo]

No, no.

[Dusty May]

I tried to think of the nicest way to answer.

[Mike]

He thinks you're a sucker.

[Greg Lobo]

I. I was going to let Z slide on that because that's a stupid question.

[Mike]

Otherwise, you know about that winner winning being better than losing, pal.

[Zaslow]

Oh, man.

[Dan LeBatard]

You just asked the man if winning felt better than losing.

[Dusty May]

Winning the title get.

[Mike]

Feel better than not getting to the title game at all.

[Zaslow]

No, that's not what I meant. Did winning feel better than losing?

[Dan LeBatard]

Fellow. Oh, man, I blew it.

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[Dusty May]

Demon Hunters, Paja Boy's Breakfast Meal and Hunt Tricks meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans what do you say to that, Rumi?

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It's not a battle.

[Dusty May]

So glad the Saja boys could take

[Dan LeBatard]

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[Dusty May]

It is an honor to share.

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[Dusty May]

No, really, stop. You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side

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[Dan LeBatard]

Don LeBatard.

[Dusty May]

Greg, how's your birthday going so far?

[Greg Lobo]

I invented it. It's going fantastic. My wife and I are staying home tonight. We're watching the debate on tv. We're gonna do something special for baby. It's a. It's a nice day for me so far.

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Stugats.

[Dusty May]

That sounds like a. Not a super nice night. The debate.

[Mike]

Old people love that.

[Dusty May]

Yeah,

[Greg Lobo]

that's exactly right. Yeah, that's exactly right. Old people do love that. And I'm old now. I can't deny it anymore.

[Dan LeBatard]

Now this is the Dan lebatar show with the Stugats.

[Dusty May]

Hey, guys. I would like to plug the Paramount plus docu series, Made in March. It's followed us in Kansas throughout the year and we haven't seen the final episode.

[Dan LeBatard]

Oh, Jessica's. Yes. Her fiance Lehman did that documentary. Evidently he was in all the crevices of your program. You gave him real access and you're here. I fail when I do not mention. For Dusty Mae, as part of the promotion of. What he does to continue to build his business, is that you've allowed real access to the story, to the insides of your business to. For people to see what it takes to. To build a championship business.

[Dusty May]

Yeah. And I'm a little bit naive to this. And so the. The first three episodes, the. The reviews we've gotten was. It's. It's actually real. It's. It's how we are behind the scenes. And so, you know, it's. It's gotten great reviews so far. The last episode. I can't wait to see it. I haven't seen it yet. The fourth and final episode that goes all the way through. But for me personally, it feels like almost like a scrapbook where you forget all these moments because you're just getting to the next thing. So it's been pretty cool to follow. And Lee and those guys with the Religion of Sport, they're as good as it gets. And so, you know, as I went on here, you know, it could be great for our program because we really pulled the curtain back.

[Dan LeBatard]

Zaslow is still reeling. I am so sorry.

[Greg Cody]

Stupid question.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, Zaslow is hurting here. Dusty, I want you to settle something for us here. We've been talking about for a couple of if you buy an 18 and 50. $18.50 beer at concessions, are you obligated to tip?

[Dusty May]

I think you get guilted into it.

[Dan LeBatard]

Are you not a strong man of your own convictions?

[Dusty May]

No, I do the tip. I go $$ is my no tip.

[Dan LeBatard]

Okay, so that's as low as you'll go. That so, Dusty? So. But for handing you a can of beer that's overpriced at least 18 times overpriced, you also just feel guilted into an extra do. That's the right ethical thing to be as a human being.

[Dusty May]

I was actually one of my many jobs growing up. Dan was a. Was a server. And so I have a lot of empathy for those guys if they're making the $2 an hour like I used to.

[Mike]

Other than tips, societal norms.

[Dan LeBatard]

Dano, who is the best team you faced this year?

[Dusty May]

UConn and Arizona both were exceptional in their own way. And I hate to say Arizona, because obviously we played really well. But going into that game, I thought we were looking at ourselves in the mirror. And then UConn, because of their style of play and toughness, they were. They were as much of a challenge as anyone. They. They're just so physical and.

[Dan LeBatard]

But you lost to Duke. You lost to Duke. It's one of the few times you did lose. You had the bed. You had the best regular season in the history of the conference. So.

[Dusty May]

Yeah.

[Dan LeBatard]

What. So Duke is not in that conversation.

[Dusty May]

I think there was four or five teams that were all about the same. And it just comes down to matchups, timing. I. Duke was one of those teams. We didn't play that well against Duke, but I think, as you know, obviously, Cam boozers exceptional and some of those other guys. But I thought Arizona was deeper. They were like us, where they went eight or nine deep of real dudes all the way down. And then UConn just with with their winning pedigree and the experience they have with Caravan. Being a guy that's played the national championship game three times, they're. They were. They were tough to play against.

[Mike]

Coach, I'm curious in basketball how you guys coach violence, because we all know playing in the stadiums, as that sport has for several decades now, you even went to the big house to try to handle the depth perception. Final four national championship games, they're usually pretty ugly, but inside I haven't seen that much violence. It was impossible to get a bucket because several arms were in the air. Hips were going against hips. How do you coach that?

[Dan LeBatard]

Long arms, big people.

[Mike]

And is it something that you learn on the fly? Like, I knew this was going to be ugly, but that's Dan Hurley over there. How do we get legally ugly in this sport?

[Dusty May]

Well, there are ways that we teach fouling without getting called for a foul, even with hand checking. A lot of coaches, especially in our league, are great at teaching what we call the hot stove, where you just stick them and then show your hands. And you almost see the officials start to blow the whistle. And then as soon as you show their hands, they don't really want to stop play. So there's a lot of little tricks and nuance that goes into it. But last year we didn't handle the physicality well enough and we got beaten the Sweet 16. And this year we went and got guys that looked like Merez Johnson and Yaxel Lindbergh and Mara and threw those guys out there into the warfare.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, that's how you do it. That's good. That's good. Evolution.

[Greg Cody]

Tony's trying out back here.

[Dan LeBatard]

Coach figured it out though. He's got it right. Tony wants the game.

[Mike]

You got a short elbow on him, coach. Right. You hit him with.

[Dan LeBatard]

Hey, what happened?

[Mike]

That's a real good answer.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yes, the hot. What is it called? The hotel Hot. Hot stove.

[Dusty May]

Hot stove.

[Dan LeBatard]

You hit him with the hot stove.

[Dusty May]

The hot stove.

[Greg Cody]

MLB free agency.

[Dan LeBatard]

Dusty. Thank you.

[Dusty May]

Actually, the heat made this one famous. Punching guys with your chest. Punch these guys with your chest as you show your hands.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, that's what they did. What do we have here? Thank you, Dusty. I appreciate the time. Thank you for being on with us and congratulations.

[Dusty May]

Thank you, guys. I appreciate it.

[Zaslow]

I'm really sorry, coach.

[Dan LeBatard]

I can't believe this. I can't wait to get back to it. Dusty can stay here if he wants to relive it with an unbelievably bad question from Zaso, an all timer. I came into today's show asking what has been the best sound from the week. It's, I mean, it's still, it's just Thursday and we have some all timers this week, but are we going to do better than this?

[Zaslow]

Coach, did the winning feel better than losing in the final four with fau?

[Mike]

We looked at each other, we're like, man, that was a stupid question.

[Dan LeBatard]

Stupid question.

[Mike]

You are a stupid man. Sucker in front of the stupid man asked this question.

[Zaslow]

Coach, did the winning feel better than losing in the final four with fau?

[Mike]

I almost jumped in and answered for Dusty May. Yes, it did.

[Zaslow]

That's not a good question.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, if I, since we're already here, I might as well let everyone know. I don't think he'll dispute it because he tends to sink into his mistakes. He called for the ball. I wanted to go when he's like, no, I got something good. I got whatever you got. I got something.

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[Mike]

You had him.

[Dan LeBatard]

The post with a hand dump. Am I misrepresenting, Zach? Zaz was saying I had the ball. I had, I have the ball in the post and I, I know what I want to ask. And Zaz is like, no, Dan, give me the ball. Get. I deserve the ball. Am I misrepresenting anything here?

[Zaslow]

Yeah, I thought I had a good question with different words.

[Mike]

You know, you took me off the hook, right?

[Dan LeBatard]

Did he?

[Luke Thomas]

Oh, for sure.

[Dan LeBatard]

All right, well, we have to do

[Mike]

Luke Thomas or Dusty May.

[Dan LeBatard]

Come on, what are we doing? Let's ask. We'll do it with David Samp next. Get all the sounds together and we'll let him judge which is the worst of the best of these.