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- [00:01]
Mike Ryan
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Samantha Bennett (voice for pet ad)
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Mike Ryan
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- [00:31]
Dan Le Batard
Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax. And let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry, not namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.
- [00:59]
Mike Ryan
1-800-contacts Spring break isn't what it used to be.
- [01:03]
Dan Le Batard
It's better this spring. Stay three nights and get a $50 Best Western gift card. Life's a trip. Make the most of it at best Western. Visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions. This is the Dan Levator show with the Stugats podcast.
- [01:27]
John Zaslow
You know about that beat down.
- [01:29]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
Woo.
- [01:29]
John Zaslow
Domino's about to catch that beat down.
- [01:32]
Dan Le Batard
Yeah, I'm hungry for lunch. I'm gonna order some dominoes.
- [01:36]
John Zaslow
Zaslow316 about to whoop your ass.
- [01:38]
Samantha Bennett (voice for pet ad)
He's gonna feel that sting, that kind of thing.
- [01:41]
John Zaslow
I didn't come all this way to play patty cake.
- [01:44]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
Wrestling's my life, baby.
- [01:46]
Dan Le Batard
Yeah,
- [01:50]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
why did you need a bald?
- [01:52]
John Zaslow
Because stone cold bald
- [01:56]
Dan Le Batard
don't you understand?
- [01:58]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
You talked a lot of shit. And I just saw some great video in the other room that we have not even shown yet. I just saw. Chris. Cody, you surprised me. I again underestimated you. And you really got into. You became Daniel Day Lewis. You really got into character.
- [02:16]
Samantha Bennett (voice for pet ad)
Razor Ramon.
- [02:16]
Dan Le Batard
I was doing that all. I must have done it. We know, we know. We saw it.
- [02:20]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
I know. I imagine that your quads and your hamstrings are aching today, cuz you have barking. You haven't hopped around like that in a while. But I did see some video of you breaking a bottle over the head of Domino Spoiler.
- [02:33]
John Zaslow
That video is going to be so good tomorrow. There's so much more.
- [02:36]
Samantha Bennett (voice for pet ad)
Literally punctuates the entire video.
- [02:37]
Dan Le Batard
It's going to be the worst.
- [02:39]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
Okay, well, I'm sorry. I just. They showed me some. I didn't know that. How am I supposed to show you anything? How am I supposed to know that that's the best of what you had when I've seen a lot of good footage. So now I. Okay, spoiler alert. When you watch the wrestling video tomorrow, it ends with Chris Cody breaking a bottle over the head of Domino.
- [02:58]
John Zaslow
You'll see. You'll see. The point is there's a lot more content than what you saw yesterday. That's the point.
- [03:03]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
That is the point. Pablo Torre joins us now, speaking of content. And Jeremy was just raving about how good a job he did on this story with Ronnie Seit.
- [03:14]
John Zaslow
I can't wait to see this. I love Ronnie Sykes.
- [03:16]
Mike Ryan
Are you bleeding more?
- [03:17]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
It does seem like that. It seems like he's got an open wound. Yeah, it seem are getting worse with his face and head than they were before. Pablo, thank you for making time for us. Pablo Torre Finds out is the name of the podcast. I was very disappointed. Before we get into the meat of what this was, the initial reaction, I don't know if you're worried at all about this is a national perception, but when I came in here yesterday and I told the group, hey, Pablo's doing something on Ronnie Cycle for tomorrow, the entire group was like, oh, no. The reaction was, no, don't let Pablo Torre near our beloved, beloved Ronnie Cycle.
- [03:55]
Mike Ryan
He's one of the good ones.
- [03:56]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
The reaction, what did Ronnie Cycle?
- [03:58]
John Zaslow
He do real estate?
- [04:00]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
I don't. I don't like this reputation you're getting. That show. Your show has a great deal of range. You do a lot of different things. It shouldn't always be, oh, no, Pablo's around, what's going to get desecrated, who's going to get unmasked, who's going to get shamed. I don't like what's happening around you, Pablo.
- [04:21]
Dan Le Batard
It did, it did. It did take a year for us to publish this episode because we've had the difficulty of trying to convince people, hey, look, we also pick people that we want to stand by and, like, hold up as friends of the show. And also people that we think are worth celebrating. And the hope, as you were alluding to, Dan, is that, like, if we say this is a story you gotta hear, it could be because the person in it is guilty, allegedly of various things. In this case, I'm happy to report that Ronnie Seichley is a total Mitch. Like, it is. It is amazing. And that's part of, like, the whole palate cleanser premise of this story is there are so many horrific People that we end up profiling and talking about. And in many ways, you know, I was just watching the video of Sean Strickland, right? The MMA guy who's saying things that are just like, even making the people who want to be rebellious feel like, okay, that's too far. Like, you shouldn't be saying that about Bad Bunny and gay people in 2026. All this stuff. Ronnie Cycley is the opposite of that. I didn't plan for Sean Strickland to say all those things, but Ronny Seichley, in a fun, genuine, authentic, and ultimately, for the first time, public way, is the person I wish more people were like, because he rules. And I would like to give him our stamp of approval and not again, a red flag that says, stay away from him.
- [05:44]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
I want to get into the entirety of this particular story, but I will tell you that Ronny Seichely, very early in my journalism career, after he was traded from the Heat, gave me one of my most memorable quotes I've ever gotten from an athlete when he was talking about Louis Shuffle and Miami Heat ownership. He said, louis Chappell is someone who lies, is a snake who lies so much that he lies even when he just says good morning. You found him uncommonly honest. Correct. Like, it's not just that he's a mensch, it's that he speaks his mind. And he was progressive long before it was popular to be progressive. And he's on the right side of history when it comes to Magic Johnson, obviously.
- [06:28]
Dan Le Batard
Oh, but then the through line is he's fearless. Like, Friday Cycling was the guy I knew from NBA Jam. I had his, like, trading cards, you know, he was a guy, of course, who was known as a big man who played in Miami and then for a bunch of teams, a journeyman of sorts. But the dude is fearless. And this is not a story to be very clear about, like, moralizing about the right side of history, even though Ronnie Seikley is more on the right side of history than pretty much any athlete that plays or has played that I can recall when it comes to the issue of, you know. And I don't want to become the guy who makes it serious all of a sudden when it comes to an issue that lots of us learned through Magic Johnson, which is HIV and aids. You know, this was a time in sports, in the NBA, that we all think we know, because Magic gave this speech right in 91. And Dan, you remember this? I mean, Dan, what was it like to be a working sportswriter? 91 and to see Magic Johnson get up there and say, I have. I have the. I have hiv. What was it like?
- [07:27]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
Oh, my God. It's one of those moments, the rare ones, where you remember exactly where you were, because something just shifted at the center of sports and society where we all thought that Magic Johnson, in coming to the microphone and announcing his retirement, was also announcing that he was about to die. That's what the feeling was.
- [07:48]
John Zaslow
That's how I felt as a kid watching it. I remember exactly where I was finding out and watching it. And that was, Magic Johnson is telling us he's going to die.
- [07:57]
Dan Le Batard
And the crazy part, among many crazy parts of the story, which I didn't know and which Ronnie Seikley has never talked about in depth until this moment, until this episode, is that okay, you may recall that Magic Johnson was also so popular simultaneously that he was leading the All Star voting despite that, right in parallel with that. And so Maddie Johnson, while he is being projected by everybody to die and Karl Malone is out here saying, I don't want to touch him. And hiv, aids, what is that even? Everyone kind of sounds like Donald Sterling in that clip that we've all heard before, right? Like he's got aids, right? Like it's. Everybody's just saying that. They don't. They don't know the difference. They don't know how it's transmitted. It's a moral panic and a genuine fear of this disease. And what happens is Magic Johnson needs to prepare, wants to prepare to play potentially in this All Star Game. And David Stern backstage, as Jack McMullen explains on this episode, is saying, we need Magic to be ready to play in this All Star Game. David Stern was also ahead of his time in that regard. But the question of how this all turned was. It's the question of why did Ronnie Cycley do the thing he did, which is randomly at a pickup game, pre game, he was out, injured. Magic Johnson obviously was out as well. Ronnie Cycley challenges Magic Johnson, who is not being. He's a leper, right? He's beyond that. He is somebody that no one wants to be around physically touch. No one wants to be around him. Ronnie Seichley does the thing that breaks the seal, and he says, let's play one on one. And he does it in private in front of a tiny audience of people, several of whom we interview in this episode. And this is the thing that opens people's eyes as to, oh, my God, first, what is he doing right there is the panic around. What is Ronnie Cycley doing? And what he ends up Doing is changing Magic Johnson's life. And Magic Johnson has only spoken about this a couple of times, but he has referenced it as this moment that was a turning point. At his absolute lowest, Ronnie Cycley was the guy, for seemingly no reason, who said, let's play one on one. And they did. And the question of this episode that we go on to solve and investigate is like, why the hell was Ronnie cycling the person to do it? And that's where his current life as a dj, the world's largest dj, as you guys know, in Miami. That's how his love of music and his love of house music and his love of a culture that was personally experiencing HIV, AIDS in the 80s and 90s before the rest of mainstream America, and also his own personal relationships with people who lived and died from that disease, family members who did. That's where it all comes together in a way that I had no idea about.
- [10:37]
John Zaslow
Pablo Karl Malone's comments back then were very well known. When Magic was going through this. I don't remember hearing about this Ronny Cycley story back then. Was this a known thing?
- [10:47]
Dan Le Batard
It was pretty much unknown to everybody. It's been written about once. Jackie McMullen wrote a book with Larry Bird and Magic Johnson when the game was ours. And it's a paragraph on one page that's passingly referenced. Ronnie Seichley had never talked about it in public, in depth. Magic Johnson mentioned it once at this anniversary about his speech, his announcement, the 20 year anniversary. And no one has, I didn't know. I didn't know about this. And of course, part of what's great about this story, right, is that some stories take a long time to report because the people in them. And this is the rarest thing, Dan. Right? The people in it are not here to promote it. Magic Johnson wasn't trying to make this a whole big deal. And even more amazing, Ronnie Cycley wasn't. This was not a thing for the public. This was a thing behind closed doors in private that he did as a gesture because it meant something to him in a genuine way. And the only way. I mean, look. And we're all guilty of it, right? Like in the era that we live in, if you're not talking about it publicly, doesn't exist. Ronnie Cycley did this for Magic Johnson and that's it. And it took him, you know, it happened in 92. It took him a quarter century to eventually talk about it with someone.
- [12:00]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
Let's play a clip here from Ronnie Cycle in his own words.
- [12:05]
Foster Kamer
I just walked up to him. And I said, do you want to play one on one? And he looked at me kind of like, not sure if he. If I was joking or not. And he was like, sure. And I said, I'm not going to take it easy on you. I'm going to push you, I'm going to shove you, and we're gonna go at it. And he looked at me. It was like as if it was Christmas. And this kid got a brand new present that he wanted, that he's always wanted. His eyes just lit up. And he looked at me. He was like, let's go. I wanted him to feel human and not like an amoeba, you know, like everybody wants to be away from him. I wanted him to feel good about himself. I wanted other players to see this. And I take that to my grave, that I've was able to put a smile on somebody's face that doesn't necessarily need it with all his fame and fortune, everything that he's done in his life. But in that moment, I put a smile on his face. And that's the most important thing for me.
- [13:08]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
The most important question I have is who the hell was that person sitting in my.
- [13:12]
Dan Le Batard
Okay, so I didn't do a great job setting up the clip they cut. I was expecting to see problems. That is. That is white me. That is otherwise known as Foster Camera. He is a writer, contributing writer to the New York Times. He is somebody who is a music writer, who's a house music expert. We got a music guy to do a DJ story. And he was like, actually, I think there's something else here. And it's this larger story as a lost chapter in sports history. And so in my attempt, Dan, to use your money to revitalize a bizarro kind of stone version of 60 Minutes, we have a stable of correspondence. And Foster, knock this out of the park, man. We worked on. He waited more than a year to publish this because. Spoiler alert. The one person that we could not get in this episode, much to my chagrin and due to no lack of effort from my part in terms of stalking him, was Magic Johnson, who I think may be irritated that on our show, we previously exposed who really does his tweets. We did an investigation as to who tweets for Magic Johnson. And so going through the woman who tweets for him to get permission to talk to Magic for this story from Pablo Torre, finds out, again, they weren't exactly throwing their doors open to us either. And so we had to do a
- [14:20]
Mike Ryan
bit of a report around hey, everybody, it's Mike Ryan. Now, if you've been following the show, you know I've been traveling, been super busy, been supporting my favorite football team with mixed results, right? Not the greatest hang so far in 2026. I try to find every excuse in the book. I had one buddy that was trying to invite me out. I wanted to stay in. He's like, come on, let's watch this NBA game. So I go over to his house, I watch this NBA game, and guess what? Something amazing happened. He pulled out the Miller Lights, and I knew right away I made the right call. Next thing you know, we're toasting, we're celebrating, we're having a great time. We're talking about nostalgia, we're talking about old friends that we had. And it was all thanks to Miller Light, that icebreaker. Because when you actually say yes and you actually show up, you want a beer that fits the moment. For me, that's Miller Lite. Legendary moments. Start with Miller Lite. Great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.
- [15:32]
Samantha Bennett (voice for pet ad)
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- [16:38]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
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- [16:43]
Dan Le Batard
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Dan Le Batard (main host)
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Dan Le Batard
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- [17:03]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
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- [17:08]
Dan Le Batard
That's Code Dan in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours.
- [17:13]
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- [17:39]
Dan Le Batard
Don LeBatard Pablo leads all of podcasting
- [17:43]
Mike Ryan
in Reading while smiling.
- [17:45]
Dan Le Batard
If you listen to ESPN Daily, he sounds like he's having the time of his life.
- [17:49]
Mike Ryan
Stugats coming up next, I'm gonna tell
- [17:52]
John Zaslow
you how the Savannah Bananas are changing.
- [17:55]
Dan Le Batard
How do you know bananas?
- [17:58]
Samantha Bennett (voice for pet ad)
How do you know I'm smiling?
- [17:59]
Mike Ryan
That's how I found my vocal range. Sometimes I just say savannah Bananas.
- [18:04]
Dan Le Batard
Savannah Bananas. Yeah, this is the Dan Levatar show with the stug.
- [18:14]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
Did you try to sneak in to his box at Dodger Stadium?
- [18:19]
Dan Le Batard
I don't like the way that this is now being circulated. It seems like I was trespassing, but I did stand within a mid range jumper's distance behind Magic Johnson at Dodger Stadium. I was in la, I went to the Dodger game. He's partner of the Dodgers and I was about to ask him to participate in this episode when I was thrown out of the section by security.
- [18:41]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
All right, so thrown out of the section by security does suggest trespassing.
- [18:47]
Dan Le Batard
Well, I think there's a legal question there that I assume, Dan, we will use our lawyers billable hours to prosecute if ever comes to that.
- [18:54]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
I am so tired of seeing our lawyers billable hours because of the work that you're doing. I was Ronnie Cycling is going to have the distinction for about six hours of being the biggest DJ in electronic Music to ever be in the studio. But Diplo is going to be here later today to do a South beach session. So how does. How does Ronnie Cycle fit in this world? Where. How did. What. What part of this story is Ronnie Cycles music career, which I think is more lucrative now than his basketball career.
- [19:27]
Dan Le Batard
Definitely. I mean, look, I'm going to defer on the DJ economy to Mike Ryan, but the premise of this story is that Rodney Seichely is legitimately an accomplished dj. Like, he plays all of these festivals. He was. The way the story started was Foster saw a flyer for this very, like, high end music festival in Brooklyn and Ronnie Cycles at the bottom. And when I first saw Ronnie Cycley's name, this was years ago when I was in south beach hanging out with you guys. I was like, oh, someone had ironically named their band Ronnie Cycling, you know, and it turns out that he is. The dude is. I mean, we play some of his music and the music explains his psychology, the music and the history of house music specifically, which is played in these clubs. It started in Chicago, really, this locus of, like, queer culture in which people are dancing and people are dealing simultaneously with hiv, aids. Ronnie cycle ahead of his time was friends befriending the outcasts in music and then becoming one of them as a D. And so why Ronnie Seichley goes to the fact that he's legit in this world in ways that I thought were a joke, but are apparently quite sincere and quite real.
- [20:40]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
Is there any particular reason that you're joining us from what appears to be an antiseptic can of some sort?
- [20:49]
Dan Le Batard
You don't like the decor of the can? I'm at the new. I'm in the heart of the liberal media, Dan. I'm at the Ms. Now.
- [20:57]
Foster Kamer
I knew it.
- [20:58]
Dan Le Batard
And. And they didn't give me a room, so I snuck into one. And so I'll just. Like, I'm not even supposed to really be here. Like, I just. This is. This is. They don't. They don't know I'm in here. I guess I'm hiding.
- [21:11]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
All right, let's talk about the not liberal media before I let you go here. And the mess going on at CBS where Colbert is leaving in May and something that he just did here recently against the advice of his lawyers is, you know, basically telling cbs, what are you gonna do, fire me? As he's doing whatever it is that he wants and as Anderson Cooper leaves 60 Minutes. And it is clear that the mainstream media is so replete with conflicts of interest that you have One of the great empires in network news right now falling apart in front of our eyes with an assortment of corporate conflicts. What do you have for us on this subject? Because it's painful to watch what's happening around 60 minutes at what used to be a mainstream institution that you could count on for at least attempting objectivity and fairness.
- [22:07]
Dan Le Batard
Yeah, it's left a real wide open lane for independent journalism to come in and actually try to hold powerful people, very wealthy people to account. We just interviewed. I was just doing the morning show here, Morning Joe, and we had James Talarico, the Texas state representative, who Colbert interviewed and was not allowed to air the broadcast of a network television on the show. And we were talking to him about this, and one of the things that immediately became obvious was this was such an enormous win for him. Right. Millions more people ended up seeing the video that they had to post on the Internet because he became this target of the fcc, which Donald Trump has used, as he does every branch of government, every regulatory would be regulatory agency to just serve his own particular purposes. And so the through line here, we're at this moment, and this is beyond just like liberal stuff, right? We're at this moment where there is such clarity around corruption, around billionaires, around Silicon Valley, around people at the very top. And if you choose to service the President of the United States, he may give you, in these quid pro quo arrangements, these transactional arrangements, benefits and pardons and favors. But in terms of what's popular, right? Why are millions of people watching these clips? Why, when it comes to the Epstein files, are millions of Americans sort of waking up to realize, oh, my God, when Pam Bondi is being questioned in Congress about all of this stuff and she can't even get the words out about the Dow, how we should focus on the Dow instead of these victims, these female victims who are right behind her in that room, people realize it's because she is servicing one person at the expense of an entire population of people, an entire audience of Americans from both sides of the aisle. And so CBS is caught in this very awkward position of needing the protections of the president via the quid pro quo system, the transactionality of him granting favors via the fcc, via the ability to merge with other companies, Paramount, Warner Brothers, et cetera. But in the meantime, they are losing audience, and they're losing, more important than that, even the confidence of the public that frankly, says, you guys are lying to us because we're not so stupid anymore. And that's the part where there's real opportunity and that's what CBS is opening the door for, is for people to call them out on it and call the administration out on servicing one guy at the expense of an entire country.
- [24:31]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
The folks who listen to this show have heard me lament the idea that I don't really believe that a whole lot of people understand what it is that Meadowlark Media is aspiring to be amid this climate. I do believe that this audience and its allegiances are at least in part because they do appreciate what it is that Pablo and we are trying to do at a time where a whole lot of people are compromised and conflicted. You talked with David Remnick of the New Yorker and Ezra Edelman, who did the O.J. simpson documentary about what specifically is happening right now at the Washington Post. Can you take us through what you thought were the most interesting parts of that conversation as you watch these entities like CBS and Washington Post not have the wherewithal for what the present moment demands?
- [25:28]
Dan Le Batard
Yeah. So what we're doing at Meadowlark, right, is saying, what if we use this money to create a, frankly, a coalition of people who will use journalism to hold the most wealthy and therefore dangerous people in this country to account? And so it is incredibly gratifying to have David Rabnick, the editor of the New Yorker, and our grumpy friend Ezra Edelman, who's the greatest documentarian of our time, basically come into your studio, Dan, in New York and have this conversation. It's very clear what's happening. I mean, Remnick, who studies not just Russia, but also the Washington Post, as a former employee, he funny enough was like, you know, a branch on the ground. The Tony Kornheiser coaching tree. That dead sports section. He used to work there. What he points out is that you don't need to be some incredible media incisive analyst to point out that this is Jeff Bezos, like the Melania documentary, which Remnick watched, which is hilarious, they sold novelty buckets like it's Dune. You know, they sell novelty popcorn buckets for the Melania movie. The Melania movie is not a movie. The Melania movie is basically like crypto is. It is a way to transact and to funnel money from one private enterprise to our government. And the reason that's meaningful and why Ezra was also in the room is because, of course, that is corruption wearing the disguise of media. That is corruption wearing the disguise of a documentary. Right. It's in the Washington Post. Corruption wearing the costume of a newspaper.
- [26:58]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
I don't think people can tell the Difference. I don't think enough people can tell the difference. I think that's what's happening with. With the ability to take a hatchet to all of it with just the two words, fake news.
- [27:08]
Dan Le Batard
Well, and that's why you need people who will say it explicitly without also hopefully forgetting that this needs to be also entertaining and fun. Right. Like, that's why, you know, everything I do with this and that you have funded is the premise of this is important, but could also be a thing arise. Right. And what's more fun to me, at least as a journalist, than like exposing as if you are a detective in a movie perhaps about the Washington Post, all the President's Men in which you are aiming up. You're not aiming left or right, you're aiming up. And the detective on the detective dynamics of journalism and the willingness to say, this is what we found. This is why it matters. And hoping, maybe it's the last hope we have, that this will hold something to account. Clarity. Right? Clarity is so important. And if you don't say it, if you don't defend the terms. Right. What do journalists have? We have vocabulary. Right. We have to defend it. This is what a documentary is. It means you're independent from the subject. You're using journalistic depictions to tell a story. Right. That's why O.J. made in America. Why is Ezra on the show? Because that. That thing, OJ Made in America is a North Star for everything. It's incredibly dense and historical and serious. It's also incredibly fun to watch. Right. You get everything in it. It's a. Yes. And sort of dynamic. And so with this. How can you define the terms of what journalism is so it can't be worn as a costume? It may be insufferable to non journalists, but I promise you it's really important because otherwise you're just gonna be at a costume party full of people who are trying to rob you. And that's otherwise what's happening in America right now.
- [28:58]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
Don LeBatard, John Zaslow, how you love that catchphrase. Bad news for opposing teams in the Triple A St.
- [29:28]
Dan Le Batard
This is the Dan Levatar show with the stuff.
- [29:46]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
Last point on what the latest story is that Pablo Torre digs into. Because it's not all negative stuff. It's not all gotcha. It's not all about the clicks. Rudy Gobert is when we do word association, for me, the start of the pandemic. How are David Stern and Ronnie Seikolay the start of the change in how it is that people Viewed hiv?
- [30:12]
Dan Le Batard
Yeah. People didn' know about what this was. I was 6 years old in 1991 and I remember learning about HIV because of magic Johnson. The power of sports is that it has all of these people in the audience who are not looking for the thing that is otherwise being presented to them as vegetables. Right. That's kind of the theory of what we're doing here right now is you come to this for the sports and then you realize, oh my God, these people in sports, they're these humans who have problems and glorious successes and weird idiosyncrasies. And in Magic Johnson's case, it was him having hiv. And so you learn about it through that. And the question becomes, as we look to the NBA right now and questions of leadership, how do you handle as a commissioner, various crises? David Stern dealt with the most famous HIV positive person in America being his most beloved player, right. Magic in 91, leading all star voting at that same time. And David Stern's response to backstage, right in private was, we are going to protect Magic Johnson as an NBA player. We are not going to write him off as if he's already dead. We're going to find a way, based on the science available to us, to make this so that people understand Magic Johnson should not be an outcast. He's a member of our sport. And it's so easy now to not do that. It's so easy to be safe about all of that. And David Stern wasn't. And David Stern had many issues, but his top down power to enact change, he had the courage of his convictions and he was on the right side of history. And that's how Ronnie Cycley enters the story. That's how frankly, we get from a place of total ignorance about what HIV is to now a place where when we see a Sean Strickland at an MMA press conference being the most bigoted, just like, you know, least creative version of a bigot you've seen. When it comes to gay people in America, you have some counterweight because there were people who stood on the other side of this long before it was safe to do it. And that's what again, the power of sports can be.
- [32:23]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
Pablo Torre finds out it's exceptional. Check out his latest story. Before we let you go here, I want to include you though, on a lighter sports conversation that now Jeremy, Mike, Ryan and Tony seem to be agreeing about. And it's beginning to bother me that they continue to get momentum on this. They all seem to believe that Jayson Tatum is going to make the Celtics worse when he gets back. They. There's some hope in there, but also they have convinced themselves. And I don't want to speak anymore for you guys. So make the argument because it's been bothering me that you guys have been. You've been. Jeremy has been getting allies on this. He's been collecting allies in the room. And Mike and Tony seem to be on his side. I don't know where Zaslow stands on this. Right.
- [33:09]
Mike Ryan
I think they will 100% when Jayson Tatum resumes playing regular minutes on that team. Have an acclimation point where they try to readjust to Jason Tatum's usage rate. We've seen players that are elite and considered elite be dropped in. In the playoffs after a long layoff and struggle to catch up and throw off team chemistry. I think this is actually more commonplace than people realize. And it should. It shouldn't be considered a hot take. That should be the norm. That should be what we expect. And if Jason Tatum somehow surpasses that expectation, it's a credit to him and it's a credit to that team. But I don't think it's hot take you at all. It's only natural.
- [33:45]
John Zaslow
We absolutely went through it down here in 2001 with Alonzo Morning in the Miami Heat. That was a good Heat team. Anthony Mason was the best player. It was his only all star.
- [33:52]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
It wasn't a champion Heat team. They lost in the first round and couldn't handle Jamal Mashburn.
- [33:57]
John Zaslow
Ally.
- [33:58]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
They could not. They could not have been a championship team. They were not a championship team. They were an Anthony Mason led team. And Anthony Mason didn't want Zo back. Made them worse. Not Jason Tatum, not a champion.
- [34:09]
Dan Le Batard
Right.
- [34:10]
John Zaslow
But so I would also add to it, while I do think that it could. It could wind up having the Celtics take a step back because it's going to be hard to acclimate that player back when you have Jaylen Brown who has taken over that role. And then depending on how quickly he gets back before the playoffs, to just throw that player out there in postseason action is going to be difficult. But you obviously do it if you're Boston, because. I'm sorry, like, the Celtics are a fun story. They're number two or three in the east right now. They have no chance, currently constructed, to be a championship team. Jason Tatum, best case scenario, allows them to be a championship team.
- [34:43]
Dan Le Batard
Pablo, this is. This is. Some of. I mean, you guys are just doing reverse psychology. That's what's happening here. You want the Celtics to hear this and be like maybe, maybe those guys in that jibba container are right. Maybe we should hold off on returning. Sorry, excuse me, the custodians. Maybe the custodians are right. Maybe we shouldn't have Jayson Tatum play for the Celtics when he comes back before the playoffs. That's what the suggestion here is.
- [35:06]
Mike Ryan
Quit being so like typical liberal media twisting our words. No, we're saying there's going to be an acclimation point and that should be the expectation. Stop trying to make it a hot take. Stop trying to be like Mike is saying the worst with Jayson Tatum. You can be the judge after it plays out. I'm just saying it's only natural that they will struggle when he gets reinserted into that lineup. This is not a hot take.
- [35:26]
Samantha Bennett (voice for pet ad)
I'm just worried about the personalities for
- [35:28]
Dan Le Batard
the them like Jaylen Brown is, is a wide receiver personality who's going to
- [35:33]
Mike Ryan
be top five in MVP voting and
- [35:35]
Dan Le Batard
is posting infographics of how he has played versus how Jason Tatum has played for the Celtics.
- [35:40]
Samantha Bennett (voice for pet ad)
And I'm just saying the first time that Jason Tatum takes a step back
- [35:44]
Mike Ryan
long two for a potential game winner
- [35:47]
Dan Le Batard
as, as he probably pushes right off
- [35:50]
Samantha Bennett (voice for pet ad)
with that right arm, Jaylen Brown might
- [35:52]
Dan Le Batard
not be okay with it and then
- [35:53]
Samantha Bennett (voice for pet ad)
all of a sudden things might fall apart. That's all I'm saying.
- [35:55]
Dan Le Batard
I just, I just feel like it's probably worth pointing out that Jason Tatum's like a six time all star who's the first team NBA player. The whole, the problem with Jason, the problem with Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown though, where you guys have a lane politically speaking, is that they don't really have like, they don't have stands. There are no like Jason Tatum stands. There are no, certainly no Jalen Brown stands. They're hive lists largely and that's an issue for them. But they also won a title together. So again I'm just a little bit lost on like what's happening.
- [36:25]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
I think though that what might happen that they're going to feel validated on their point is that Jayson Tatum comes back and because they don't have what Porzingis and Drew Holiday were doing, all of a sudden they're not as good as they were when they were champions. They'll be better than what they are presently with just Jaylen Brown and Derrick White but fourth ally. But all of a sudden they're going to be able to make the argument because they're not championship or they're not as good as okc.
- [36:49]
Dan Le Batard
I just like when Mike was saying, like, you can be the judge. That is that you're holding your take with tongs like it's a diaper. Like you don't want to own the take. Just own the take. Take. The take is. It's my Jason Tatum makes. Okay, well, both of you guys can hold this.
- [37:05]
Samantha Bennett (voice for pet ad)
I'll take without tongs.
- [37:06]
Mike Ryan
Are you.
- [37:07]
Dan Le Batard
I will hold that.
- [37:07]
Mike Ryan
Say it with my chest and say what I mean, I would like you to pipe down, fella.
- [37:13]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
He said you're holding your take with tongs like you would a baby diaper, that you're afraid to present it in public as yours. In fact, when he accused you of it, you pointed at Jeremy. All right, cool.
- [37:24]
Mike Ryan
Jason Tatum sucks. I've never been a fan of his. Thank you. He doesn't have stands because he himself is a. He is a Kobe, Stan. Just a worse version. There you go.
- [37:34]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
Finally we got the right and accurate and honest. Transparent.
- [37:38]
John Zaslow
Are you telling me you look at his face, you don't think I'm being honest?
- [37:41]
Dan Le Batard
Look at me.
- [37:43]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
Pablo, good work. Thank you, sir. You continue to crush it. We appreciate the work you're doing. I will continue to remind everyone here and listening. It is not my money. It is our money. We are owners in this company. Our money. Stop saying it is my money. Thank you.
- [38:00]
Dan Le Batard
I appreciate that. And Zaz looks like how various NBA owners wish I looked. So I appreciate our money being used for my legal defense.
- [38:08]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
Go back to hiding in the labyrinth of the liberal mainstream media the way that you're hiding in an antiseptic can. Pablo Torre finds out is the name of the podcast. I want to put it to poll and make it official. Does the audience want to want the shipping container name to be changed and promoted to custodians? Because you guys seem to like custodians better. You guys seem to think that this is something that is a promotion, that to become a custodian freshens it up a little.
- [38:40]
Mike Ryan
Yeah, because new you keep saying shipping container, which is awfully convenient because the entire official term is shipping container full of frightened refugees. We have since moved for what place? And the frightened refugee thing, not playing with the base. Jeremy didn't know that.
- [38:56]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
Yeah. The history of this, there's no way you didn't know. When we were at the Clevelander, they were in such a small tin can far away from me that I can just see that they were frightened. And it was a different time.
- [39:06]
Samantha Bennett (voice for pet ad)
Scary time.
- [39:07]
Dan Le Batard
Yeah.
- [39:07]
Mike Ryan
Things have changed. Different cast. Custodian me.
- [39:10]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
Okay. So. Really? So are you all voting for you're viewing this as a promotion as well. Oh, Tony's making a sour face as he smells something.
- [39:17]
Mike Ryan
I don't know if it's a promotion. You would.
- [39:19]
Samantha Bennett (voice for pet ad)
I think we just play it out next couple weeks, see if it sticks. We don't force it.
- [39:24]
John Zaslow
Sometimes in pro wrestling you gotta change up your gimmick every now and then. You gotta freshen things up a little bit. I know, but I'm like a pro wrestler actually.
- [39:31]
Mike Ryan
You got your ass beat.
- [39:33]
John Zaslow
You win some, you lose some, Tony.
- [39:35]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
That is what happens in wrestling lately. Our highlight team, the one that we own together. But Chris and Mike are the public faces of. And Chris and Mike are the GM of the year. They are the reigning champions. The Cyclones return to work at 3 o' clock for a matinee here. And we have some high alights or J alights that I like to celebrate in honor of University of Miami basketball coach High Lewis.
- [40:03]
Mike Ryan
Dan. The reigning fall champ Cyclones have started this season in incredible fashion. We are undefeated. We won again yesterday against the Fireballs. You can watch all these games on YouTube and the ESPN app. We are now 2. 01. And a lot of the credit has to go to Bradley, a former Cyclone that was injured in his previous tenure. He's gotten healthy and he straight up overpowered crb. I have never seen a player look afraid on a fronton before. Lotte left side to the outside. Bradley's quick gets out there, keeps it
- [40:39]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
low, just above the pole.
- [40:40]
Mike Ryan
Oh, goodness.
- [40:41]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
Oh boy.
- [40:41]
Mike Ryan
Bradley is very powerful and much bigger than crb. And you never really see a highlight player flinch because a pelota is traveling 200 mph right at his noggin. But that's what Bradley does.
- [40:55]
Samantha Bennett (voice for pet ad)
That's what Bradley did in the post game interview.
- [40:59]
Mike Ryan
And Dan, as I've mentioned before, we have a Super bowl winner on our team. When you talk about grape two sport athletes, Bo Jackson, I guess you can lump in Michael Jordan now given his recent success. Deion Sanders. Tanar Davis won a Super bowl with the Indianapolis Colts and a battlecore championship previously with the Cyclones. Here is Jedden AKA Tenard Davis in a post game after a brilliant win with his new doubles partner, Unda.
- [41:28]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
The Unda taker is a Cyclone.
- [41:32]
Mike Ryan
Yes, he is. That's Unda.
- [41:35]
Dan Le Batard
You want to hear Unda? We are the Cyclone.
- [41:40]
Samantha Bennett (voice for pet ad)
That's Unda.
- [41:40]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
Yes.
- [41:41]
Mike Ryan
I love this Gandha.
- [41:42]
Dan Le Batard
We are the Cyclone.
- [41:44]
Mike Ryan
We are the Cyclone.
- [41:45]
Dan Le Batard
We are the Cyclone.
- [41:48]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
So he didn't. He dropped the S on Cyclones. Okay.
- [41:57]
Mike Ryan
The Undertaker.
- [42:02]
Dan Le Batard (main host)
When you said they're undefeated The Cyclone are undefeated again. They've won once or twice.
- [42:07]
Mike Ryan
We are 20 and 11 draw. We opened the match in a championship rematch of the fall final, and we drew the Devils. And since then, 2 0. This is one of the best locker rooms I think we've ever had. I love how supportive our guys are. You know, Unda, I love him being paired with Jeddin because that is a championship player. This is so great for us. Hey, everybody, it's Mike Ryan. Now, if you've been following the show, you know I've been traveling, been super busy, been supporting my favorite football team with mixed results, right? Not the greatest hang so far in 2026. I try to find every excuse in the book. I had one buddy that was trying to invite me out. I wanted to stay in. He's like, come on, let's watch this NBA game. So I go over to his house, I watch this NBA game, and guess what? Something amazing happened. He pulled out the Miller Lights, and I knew right away I made the right call. Next thing you know, we're toasting, we're celebrating, we're having a great time. We're talking about nostalgia, we're talking about old friends that we had. And it was all things similarly light, that icebreaker. Because when you actually say yes and you actually show up, you want a beer that fits the moment. For me, that's Miller Lite. Legendary moments. Start with Miller Lite. Great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.