Pablo Torre (2:05)

This is so. Hello, Chris. Thanks for listening to some of the episodes. I really appreciate that, sincerely. Is Jay Marioti. I haven't read this yet. Is Jay Marioti still blaming me for the cancellation of around the Horn?

Stugotz (2:17)

Yes.

Pablo Torre (2:18)

Okay, so is there. That is my question number one. Number two, for anyone who's wondering, who is Jay Marioti? That's a fair question. You should google J. Mariotti sometime and maybe just throw in the word stock, just as a matter of just general guidance, you might want to see what he had been up to at some point. The third thing I love. So the Cuban thing is I hate when Dan cuts to the core of me because, yes, me and Mark Cuban did some first take, allegedly, about my journalism. Really, it was. It was arguing. I love it, though, because I want people to give me arguments so I can try and defend the work, because I frankly want to make sure I'm not missing anything. And I've been asking everybody, what are your criticisms? What are your arguments? And the Clippers, we've seen what those are. They don't have any. Media day. Did not have those leaks. Typically, you get some good leaks from, like, media, you know, sources of the team. We haven't really had those either. And Jay Marioti is here now, and so I just feel like, I don't know, maybe the story's over now. Maybe when you get to the Marioti line, the story's actually over, because I don't think he knows what he's talking about.

Dan Le Batard (3:36)

He's blaming. He is blaming you. Tory has done this on my former program, around the Horn. The second ESPN show he allowed to fade off the air. And it's time his editors at the Athletic tell him he's leading the majors in strikeouts.

Pablo Torre (3:51)

So a couple of cleanups there. I did not allow High Noon to get canceled. I was canceled. I feel like it's okay for a cancellation to be involuntary.

Dan Le Batard (4:01)

The second ESPN show he allowed to fade off the air.

Pablo Torre (4:08)

I want to apologize to Tony Reali for lucid. For doing the thing in Titanic that Jack and Rose did. I let him go. I took the door we were floating on, and I let him go. I allowed around the Horn to go away. What was the other thing he said?

Dan Le Batard (4:25)

Why is he blaming you? I don't. Why? When you come on. I don't know when you come on. What do you mean you don't know? When you come on and say, is he blaming me again for around the Horn? And I didn't know he had been blaming you until reading this. Why is he blaming you for around the Horn? Just glad he said it.

Billy Gil (4:43)

I might be the reason why I've.

Pablo Torre (4:46)

Never talked to Jay. I assume Jay is thrilled. One of my favorite things about Jay Marioti's Twitter account, which I have just looked up here, is that he inserts manually a photo of himself, like, posing for everyone. And I don't even care to make fun of him for the engagement on his tweets, because that's its own. I hate when people do that to me. It's just sad. Ignore the numbers. Just look at the photos. He picked a good one for this one. He's like him in front of, like, a duck pond. I like that.

Dan Le Batard (5:17)

No you say that that's the good part of the bio. The best part of the bio to me is that he writes in ESPN Ratings king.

Pablo Torre (5:28)

Yes, yes, that's right. You didn't know that, Dan?

Dan Le Batard (5:31)

I did not know that.

Pablo Torre (5:32)

Did you know that? By the way, did you know this is also news to the editors at the Athletic that they're my editors? Because they of course are not. They are, if anything, horrified to hear that. God bless our partners, but they are not editing these things. He just doesn't know. I mean, look, even if I can. Do we want to talk about how Jay Marioti was the ratings king at ESPN or do we not talk about the thing that ESPN.com reported, which Jay Mario has misinterpreted into something that I am kind of like baffled by in a real way. But I can go either direction now.

Dan Le Batard (6:05)

Let's just talk about what you did this morning with Mark Cuban because he has entrenched himself on this in a way that leaves him, I think, largely alone. Where are his supporters? First of all, before you tell us what it is that you and Mark Cuban did on the latest episode of.

Pablo Torre (6:20)

Pablo Torre finds out, where are Mark Cuban supporters?

Dan Le Batard (6:23)

Yeah, who else? Who else is publicly against you when you keep throwing facts at people that are vigorously reported? I thought all of these people scattered. I thought there were a lot of people that confused me at the beginning and it suggested that people just hate the media. Cuz a whole lot of people sided with Ballmer at the beginning and I was really confused by it. But since then you've done so much reporting that I've seen no one but Mark Cuban still standing. And now Jay Marioti.

Pablo Torre (6:49)

Yeah, I was going to say, I think it's Clippers pr, it's Mark Cuban and Jay Marioti to give you a sense of what's going on here. And in fairness, a lot of like people with Kawhi Leonard or James Harden avatars on Twitter, it's generally that that's the dojo that I walk into ready to fight every day. And it's a bummer at this point. But I, in all sincerity, like, the reason I wanted to have Cuban on the show was because I think it's really important, especially now for journalists who do this sort of work to defend their work, to be able to defend their work. It's just key to how you make sure that people are hearing about your work. But then it's also, I think, only fair to the people that you're investigating or reporting on. And so in this case, like Mark Cuban coming into the studio, into our dojo, as he called it, a dungeon, which is fair. It's windowless and small, but, you know, full of, yeah, journalism. And in this case, two people yelling at each other. I'm so grateful he did that because we got to have what I would say is the most generously proportioned conversation about a complicated topic in which he got to say everything and anything he wanted. And so that is what I wanted to make sure people heard, is that this is the best that people got. And so it was.

Dan Le Batard (8:12)

What did he say that you found interesting? What did he say that was different from what it is that he said before?

Pablo Torre (8:18)

Look, I asked him, I think the fundamental question in all of this, which I will ask everybody, and I ask, truly NBA Clippers, Ballmer, everybody, why was this deal never announced? And Mark Cuban provided a theory I had not heard before, which is simply that they had just announced a Red Sox deal at the end of March and they didn't want to step on that deal. And then I guess they never got around to announcing the Kawhi Leonard deal.

Billy Gil (8:47)

They made plenty of other announcements, Pablo, but they just kept omitting Kawhi for some reason.

Pablo Torre (8:54)

I. It's hard for me to just objectively, of course, describe what he's arguing because I argued against it in the episode so lengthily, but it's just fucking insane. I'm sorry. It's just insane. Leo DiCaprio, Robert Downey Jr. Mike, you signed Drake and you're like, look who we got. You spend more than four times all those A listers combined on Kawhi and you never announce it. And then you forget. Apparently you forget to announce it is basically what happens. The business changes. And it's just like you had months. You had months and you never did it.

Billy Gil (9:26)

What's in it for Mark to just refuse to give an inch here? I mean, we know how difficult it is in these trying times for any man to admit when they are wrong publicly. But why does he simply refuse to make. We're not talking about grand logic leaps here. Like, he is asking for you to acknowledge something that doesn't make any sense when you present him the evidence. But he just holds firm there, refusing to give an inch. What's at play here. He keeps trying to lead the audience on saying the listen, this is good for the Mavs. I could just turn around and say, no, it's not good for the Mavs because there are a lot of people out there on the Internet theorizing that allegedly this is happening. All over the league and you don't want people poking around.

Dan Le Batard (10:10)

This is what it makes me wonder. The initial yawn on this from people is like, oh, I hope nobody comes snooping around here. Cuz there are all sorts of suspicious things that rich people do to compete when you try to curtail their richness.

Billy Gil (10:23)

I'm asking Pablo to do something that. That Mark apparently refuses to do, which is connect the dots here. Explain to me why Mark Cuban is so. So entrenched in his position.

Dan Le Batard (10:33)

Should I do this though? I should. Time to throw away all journalistic credibility and get reckless.

Pablo Torre (10:39)

Here is something we like to call reckless speculation. You're good.

Dan Le Batard (10:44)

This is not journalism. This is not muckraking. This is Pablo being asked for his opinion.

Pablo Torre (10:49)

So I think Mark Cuba is genuinely an Internet brained true poster. And I say that as an Internet brained true poster myself. I think he just is super, super online. He loves it. I mean, look, that's. That's the generous interpretation, which is he just loves to argue about this. And even when I pointed out that he had written 17,000 plus words or whatever it was on Twitter about this, he then comes back and says a lot of that was chatgpt. So I'm like, all right, so okay, I mean, whatever. Mileage varies on how much work he's putting into the Twitter thing, but nonetheless, he's super into it. The other part, which I raise in the episode, which I find very interesting, is more in the. I would like Mark to connect these dots for me, which is that something that he never told me that I. And I hate to step on, sort of like the finale of the episode. But something that I establish is that I did not realize that Clippers co owner Dennis Wong, who was Steve Ballmer's college classmate, his best friend, has been described to me, the guy who put in money into aspiration, despite all these disclosures, having never put money in before, In December of 2022, that guy who's been talked about ad nauseum. I didn't realize that Dennis Wong lives in Dallas now. And in the episode we basically play a series of things, clips that Mark Cuban is in, in which they are done at these institutions. The Dallas Museum of Art, for instance, the George W. Bush Presidential center, both in Dallas. We reference the fact that he owns this pickleball team, the Dallas Flash. We do these sort of references because at the end, what I end up asking him is whether he knows that Dennis Wong lives in Dallas and whether he knows that Dennis Wong is also heavily involved with all of those organizations. I just name checked for you in the last minute. Thousand people of art. He's on the board George W. Bush executive center leadership thing. He's on the advisory council. He is a an owner. Dennis Wong is of a major league pickleball team that plays Mark's team as well as the fact that they're on the board of governors together. Have been for a half dozen years until Mark sold his majority stake in the team. So I asked him that and Mark said he laughed. He laughed at all of it. And so look, you could take that as he's genuinely ignorant of the other NBA owner who's not a Mavs owner who's in his city that is involved with these same organizations or you could see something else. I am merely Dan asking a question.

Mike Ryan (13:26)

I don't know about you guys, but I'm someone that's constantly adding stuff to different carts on random websites. Like there's a teal Marlins hat that's been calling to me for like two and a half years that I'm constantly getting advertisements for is something eventually I'll purchase because I keep those things in the cart. Then I see it. That beautiful glowing purple shop pay button.

Billy Gil (13:44)

Boom.

Mike Ryan (13:44)

Checkout's done. I don't even have to get up and find my wallet. That, my friends, is Shopify magic. That little purple button means that the store is powered by Shopify, which doesn't just make it easy to buy, but ridiculously easy to start and run your own business too. Whether you're a giant like Mattel or Gymshark or, you know, just launching something weird from your garage, Shopify has your back. Let's be real. If we can run a show with this much chaos, you can run a business with Shopify with hundreds of beautiful templates. Tools for payments, inventory analytics, marketing. It goes on and on, and it's all in one place. If you want to see less carts being abandoned, it's time for you to head over to Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com go to shopify.com, shopify.com batard.

Stugotz (14:38)

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Billy Gil (15:44)

I got a special treat for you because I want to talk to you about Miller Lite. But I want to talk to you about Miller Lite with my good friend Rose. Hey, Rose.

Pablo Torre (15:49)

Hi, everybody.

Billy Gil (15:50)

When we hang out and we hang out often, we're friends. I consider us friends.

Pablo Torre (15:54)

Yeah, me too.

Billy Gil (15:55)

We're often toasting the good times. And what am I toasting with?

Dan Le Batard (15:58)

With Miller Lite.

Billy Gil (15:59)

That's right. Miller Lite. Whether you're hanging out with your dear friend Rose or at game day, it just hits different when you got a Miller Lite in your hand. From jaw dropping touchdowns to fantasy heartbreaks, it's a beer that has been there for every moment. 50 years of great taste, simple ingredients, and that iconic golden color that you can spot across the room. And it's just not the color of the beer, which is brilliant. That beautiful white can. How beautiful is that? Is that you doing the sound of a can opening? Is that your favorite sound?

Dan Le Batard (16:24)

No, it is a horsey.

Billy Gil (16:26)

A horsey. All right, well, stop doing that. And here's a kicker. Miller Lite is just 96 calories, 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. The original light beer since 1975. That's right. And still hitting different five decades later. You're so good at this, Rose.

Pablo Torre (16:40)

I know.

Billy Gil (16:40)

So whatever your game day looks like, remember, Miller time is always a good time. Look at us. We're a great tag team. High five again. Can you do that beer sound one more time? And the horse sound one more time? I regret asking you about that one, but the Miller Lite sound is good. Miller Lite, great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com Shane to find delivery options near you, or you can pick up some Miller Lite Pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsively. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wiscon. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounce ounces. No, it says.

Pablo Torre (17:14)

Oh, says Don LeBatard.

Stugotz (17:18)

Pablo leads all of podcasting in reading while smiling.

Pablo Torre (17:22)

If you listen to ESPN Daily, he sounds like he's having the time of his life.

Billy Gil (17:26)

Stugats coming up next.

Stugotz (17:28)

I'm gonna tell you, the Savannah Bananas are changing.

Billy Gil (17:32)

How do you know I'm bananas?

Stugotz (17:35)

How do you know I'm smiling?

Billy Gil (17:36)

That's how I found my vocal range. Sometimes I just say, savannah Bananas.

Dan Le Batard (17:41)

Savannah Bananas.

Pablo Torre (17:44)

This is the Dan Levatar show with the stugats.

Stugotz (18:02)

Did you have, like, a timeline in your head as to, like, when there may be discipline in this? And then I guess, like another question is, is there, like, a smoking gun that's still out there that you're trying to find? Because as someone who's not as invested, obviously as you, it feels like the longer this goes, the less likely there will be consequences for all of this.

Pablo Torre (18:24)

So. So that is actually something that came up in this ESPN.com article that Jay Marioti turned into some. Whatever the opposite of a smoking gun is. You guys can workshop that. What is the opposite of a smoking gun? I don't know. Cool.

Stugotz (18:35)

Pistol?

Pablo Torre (18:36)

I don't know. Cool.

Dan Le Batard (18:37)

No, that. That is another gun.

Stugotz (18:40)

A rock.

Pablo Torre (18:40)

Right? It's a freezing bulletproof vest. The freezing bulletproof vest that Mark Cuban saw in that.com article or, sorry, that Jay Mario on that.com article is something that I think Mark Cuban is also rooting for, which is that this investigation, in that article, it was speculated for the first time I had seen, might not be done until after the 2026 NBA playoffs. And so you're right, Billy. Like the whole thing here, the whole game, which I keep on trying to say, why is it weird that Adam Silver said that he had never heard of aspiration before? And then after I tweeted out the documentation for the $300 million contract, he then says to Front Office Sports, oh, I misspoke in a way that is completely, completely incoherent as an excuse when you watch back the initial video, there was no wiggle room there for misspeaking, by the way. So then when this ESPN.com article comes out, the one thing that it establishes is that the NBA had, in fact vetted the $300 million deal. Not the. Not the Kawhi Leonard $28 million deal, but the larger Clippers thing. And my only real takeaway from just that bit of news, which I kind of already reported because I found the documentation. Nonetheless, let's go with it. The only bit of news there is that, oh, the NBA did, in fact expressly approve this. So why did Adam say that he had never heard of it? Maybe again, he genuinely was ignorant of it, or maybe connecting dots here, potentially there was some other motive. And if the motive that everybody in the league is telling me is that they don't want to punish this to the degree that your reporting is suggesting, then there are lots of just, yes, Freezing, bulletproof vests and smoke screens and whatever else to just get in the way of actual punishment. So is there a smoking gun that I am searching for? There are about a dozen that are out there. You know, I just don't. I just not. Not ready to report those.

Stugotz (20:40)

It just kind of feels like, yeah, from the outside, if they wanted this to be punished, they could have done so already, and they're just slow playing this. And if the investigation's not gonna start until after the season's even complete, the hope is, I guess, that, you know, the public forgets about it or just doesn't care as much, and then they can just kind of sweep it under the rug.

Pablo Torre (20:57)

Well, so the investigation is underway, but the completion of it is what the article said may not be done until after the postseason is conveniently done. The other big part, which is. And Adam said this, by the way, NBC, they had their big announcement about the NBA deal. Adam was asked about this. He said that there is, quote, no contempl. Contemplation that the All Star Game would be moved. Because the All Star Game is, of course, at the Intuit Dome this coming February. And so there's no contemplation that they're going to move it. And so look, there's. You don't have to be Colombo to see why the NBA wouldn't want to derail the biggest party of the year, as well as the richest owner in the league, as well as the commissioner of the league. But what I'm simply telling you is that that's how towering the implications of the story are. All of those things are ostensibly on the table unless the NBA, in their fake justice system, says actually none of it's even on the table.

Dan Le Batard (21:56)

Put it on the poll, please. Ebitard show is a young person required to come up with a more modern detective reference than Columbo? The reason that I say that is because, and this is charming about my parents. The last three Saturdays they have texted me, are you Watching Colombo, because evidently there's some sort of marathon on Saturday nights. Do we not have a more modern detective than Colombo that we can be referencing there? Because I don't know, you know, I'd go Sherlock Holmes. That's obviously not younger. What are the modern detectives that everyone understands here should be? Modern Detective three. And also, Pablo, do you consider yourself a muckraker? I'm not sure I know the definition, even formally, of muckraker. Billy, can you find me the definition of muckraker, please? Do you consider yourself Pablo? Is that a. Would that be a term of endearment?

Pablo Torre (22:50)

I think I'm a mark raker. I guess I am. I'm a muck and a mark raker. Muckraker is a compliment. What? What? I thought that was pretty good. I thought that's pretty good. Just changing, you know, two letters. I think that muckraker is a compliment. I think that. Look, I think it started with Upton Sinclair, I think when he was investigating, like, the meat factories of whatever, like Days of Yore. Fact check that for me as well, please.

Dan Le Batard (23:17)

Where Muckraker started and Days of Yore, which is the more highfalutin of the sounds than Upton Sinclair.

Pablo Torre (23:27)

Jungle. I'm referencing Upton Sinclair's the Jungle, I believe. You know, there's that. Yeah, man, I rake some muck. What of it?

Billy Gil (23:36)

What is.

Dan Le Batard (23:37)

What is the definition, Billy?

Stugotz (23:39)

It's someone who searches out and publicly exposes real or apparent misconduct of a prominent individual or business.

Billy Gil (23:47)

There you go.

Dan Le Batard (23:47)

I mean, he's a muck wrecker.

Mike Ryan (23:49)

He is referring to the Jungle from 1906.

Dan Le Batard (23:51)

Upton Sinclair days of Yore.

Stugotz (23:54)

Is Benoit Blanc a good modern detective?

Pablo Torre (23:57)

Hey, that. You know what? Knives Out I would watch. Knives out is sort of franchise where I will watch a zillion sequels to that.

Dan Le Batard (24:04)

Is that Daniel Craig's character in that? Okay, so can. Can we play the State of the Day music here? Because I've got an NFL stat of the day that. Do we have an NFL stat of the day? I've got a different stat of day. I don't want to do an NFL Saturday, but I need an NFL stat of the day.

Pablo Torre (24:22)

Start of the day.

Dan Le Batard (24:24)

Start of the day.

Pablo Torre (24:25)

This is start of the day. Start of the day.

Dan Le Batard (24:29)

Start of the day.

Pablo Torre (24:30)

It is the start of the day. Start the day is presented by Amazon Prime Video. Thursday Night Football is back. Pittsburgh Steelers take on the Cincinnati Bengals. Coverage begins 7pm Eastern Thursday on Prime Video.

Mike Ryan (24:44)

Dan, it turns out you may have been right about the historically bad Dolphins defense According to at Lord Reeves on Twitter, the Dolphins have allowed opponents to score on A League high 60% of their possessions this season. That is the highest rate for a team through six weeks of a season in the 2000s.

Dan Le Batard (25:06)

That is a good NFL stat. I have a good Pablo Torre Finds out stat, which is that today's episode of Pablo Torre finds out is one minute longer than the 2021 Bob Odenkirk action film Nobody. Because Pablo takes a minute to get going. And now you listen Mark Cuban there, and they're just arguing the entire time. And he's asking us, as he just did, to listen.

Pablo Torre (25:30)

Monk. How about Monk?

Stugotz (25:32)

I was going to say Monk. Monk is such a good one. I watched all the Monk episodes recently, Pablo.

Pablo Torre (25:38)

I also.

Stugotz (25:38)

There was a Monk movie. I don't know if you saw it. Very sad.

Pablo Torre (25:41)

Whoa, there's a Monk. Wait, Tony Shalhoub, Is he.

Stugotz (25:46)

He's still with.

Billy Gil (25:47)

He's got a new. He's got a new show about bread.

Pablo Torre (25:49)

Yeah, yeah.

Stugotz (25:50)

Travel show on cnn.

Pablo Torre (25:52)

He's got a bread show.

Billy Gil (25:53)

Yeah. Where travels and has bread.

Pablo Torre (25:56)

Yeah, I'm in. Why is it sad, though? Why was the Monk movie sad?

Stugotz (26:00)

I mean, do you want me to spoil anything for you? He's depressed. I mean, obviously, we know he lost his wife a long time ago. Now his, you know, spoiler alert, possible ex wife's daughter that she had at the end of the last season that we found out about. She's moved on and she's doing bigger and better things. He's no longer detecting, if you will. So he's dealing with some bad thoughts. He sees some windows he might want to jump out of. It's a whole, like, depressing theme throughout the entire episode. But they bring him back for one final case. Also another good detective, Hercule Poirot.

Dan Le Batard (26:35)

I think that Pablo might have the best of the references when he's saying, Colombo, we don't have a bed. None of those.

Stugotz (26:40)

Those are all better references.

Dan Le Batard (26:41)

They're all. They're more modern references.

Stugotz (26:43)

Death on the Nile, they're more modern references.

Dan Le Batard (26:46)

But do you think that they are more associated with Detective Re then Colombo and Sherlock Holmes, which are the established standards in this realm?

Stugotz (26:54)

I mean, Monk is the standard now for, I think, an entire generation.

Dan Le Batard (26:57)

Let's put on the poll at Lebatard show most famous detective and put the four or five of them up there that you want to put up there. In the interim, let's play a clip from. Pablo Torre finds out. And this is just a snippet of again, an Episode longer than the 2021 action vehicle of Bob Odenkirk. Nobody. This. They argued 90 minutes. And in it, that point you're making, Mike, about Jalen Brunson, about Dirk Nowitzki, about what other examples might there be that Pablo can sniff around. This comes up between them and they continue, I assume, to argue.

Pablo Torre (27:32)

So the question is, and this is truly like not my reporting, so. But the conspiracy out there, Reddit, our buddy Bill Simmons, when Dirk had that.

Dan Le Batard (27:42)

Documentary and Cuban's company bought it, and I would.

Pablo Torre (27:44)

Is this documentary, huh? So the theory here is that Magnolia Pictures, huh?

Dan Le Batard (27:50)

My company, they own half of.

Pablo Torre (27:51)

That's right. Circumvented the cap by, you know, overpaying to distribute a documentary about Dirk. How he spent like Iron man level money on the Dirk Doc. Here's 48 million for your diet.

Dan Le Batard (28:01)

Like, who knows what he spent. But how much do you think we paid?

Pablo Torre (28:05)

Well, what we did was we checked with the producers of the film and to your credit, they poured cold water on the whole conspiracy. The head of the production company told us that your company did a hundred thousand dollar deal for us distribution rights.

Dan Le Batard (28:16)

For how many years?

Pablo Torre (28:17)

10. So, yeah, I'm just. Look, I'm not here to like say gotcha. I'm just here to like legitimately say I appreciate it. You know what?

Dan Le Batard (28:24)

And I thank you. I thank you for just dispelling all.

Pablo Torre (28:26)

The nonsense I call.

Dan Le Batard (28:27)

I appreciate it.

Pablo Torre (28:28)

And I. And so just to confirm, did the Mavericks circumvent the salary cap with Dirk Nowitzki in 2014?

Dan Le Batard (28:33)

No.

Pablo Torre (28:34)

Very good. Do you think the Knicks may have circumvented the cap and taking Jalen Brunson from your Mavericks? I don't know a different answer.

Dan Le Batard (28:41)

Yeah, I don't know.

Pablo Torre (28:42)

Okay.

Dan Le Batard (28:43)

I just think there was a lot of play there.

Pablo Torre (28:44)

Yeah. Do you think the Knicks should be worried about an upcoming episode of Mark Cuban finds out.

Dan Le Batard (28:50)

You know, that's behind me. You know, more power to jb. More power to everything. Was I happy that they only got dinged for a second round pick? No, no, it should have been far worse, but is what it is. What do you make Pablo of the. No. And then the. I don't know.

Pablo Torre (29:06)

I'm just glad Mark Cuban loves talking genuinely. Like, what other part owner of an NBA team is just going to sit there and just riff on stuff? And even if you believe the riffs or don't, all I want is people to go on the record saying here is what I am telling you happened. And then I can continue to report It. So we tried to do some reporting on the Dirk stuff. And to his credit, the production team said they were paid nothing close to what was alleged. So that's useful data. The Brunson thing, you know, I think. I think Mark is more animated about that than me. It sounds like Pablo.

Mike Ryan (29:44)

The one thing I couldn't understand from Cuban on his side of things here is it seems like he's incapable of making any sort of logical conclusions or even considering, like, the humanity side of this. Steve Ballmer, a rich guy, can make a miscalculation, for that matter, considering sources, right? Like every time you bring up the seven sources who might confirm something, he just sort of dismisses that as well. They're just people who have their own thing. Why do you think it is that Cuban is having such a hard time sort of processing just the human elements behind this story?

Pablo Torre (30:22)

I find it frustrating too. I think there's most generously. It's just a lot to keep up with. Maybe it's just hard to keep track of all of the sources and the documents less generously. I think it's because it's wildly inconvenient when you're saying, this is how I would have done it. And seven people, and then over time, nine people are saying, this is how it happened. And so look, the whole point of journalism not to be, you know, on a high horse is that, like, it's not good enough to hypothesize. You need to talk to people, primary sources who in this case were interviewed by the federal government, who over time are telling you with increasing clarity, here are documents, fact check them. Here are facts. Check them. Go to the clippers, see what they push back on. No one corrects anything. The documents turn out to be true. The guys that they pointed to in terms of the actual fraud of the business get arrested and plead guilty to wire fraud. Like, it's just funny that a lot of what is being reverse engineered is from, like, the documentation around the Department of Justice's own investigation. Key people in that investigation, key sources, are my sources. And without saying more, because I need to protect their identity, I just look forward to the day when those sources may, in fact, feel comfortable enough to speak on the record with their names and their faces and their voices, because for the time being, the reason they're not has to do with the fact that we are not talking about just like, in truth, like fun, random sports debate. We're talking about one of the richest men, 10 richest men in the world, being at the center of their accusations. So that's why they're not doing it. Plus the fact that there's an ongoing series of federal probes, like anyway, that's what I think. I also believe though, that if you don't believe the sources, that's okay. Believe the documents and apparently mileage varies on that too.

Dan Le Batard (32:18)

Put it on the poll, please. At Lebatard show, will you listen to a podcast that promises, quote, an ongoing series of federal probes, end quote? Pablo Torre finds out is the podcast. It is excellent. And he continues to chase this story because as J. Mary J. Mariotti says, I tell him to chase people. Thank you for chasing people, Pablo. Continue to chase people.

Pablo Torre (32:44)

Thank you for being my boss and thank you for the money. And we have another investigation, a different investigation coming Thursday that I think is going to make people mad.

Billy Gil (32:53)

But is it Jay Marioti dyes his hair because I have concluded mine.

Dan Le Batard (32:58)

See you later, Pablo. Thank you and I appreciate it.

Pablo Torre (33:03)

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Dan Le Batard (33:09)

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Pablo Torre (33:17)

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Dan Le Batard (33:19)

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Pablo Torre (33:21)

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Stugotz (33:32)

Don LeBatard we didn't get to your guys's against this spread.

Pablo Torre (33:35)

You're right, you're right, you're right.

Dan Le Batard (33:36)

I don't have it against the spread because I wasn't prepared for this segment.

Stugotz (33:40)

You need an Ian in your life.

Dan Le Batard (33:41)

You have actively played defense against me today in a way that has rarely been this undercutting. Stugats.

Stugotz (33:47)

Defense wins championships, baby, at show business.

Pablo Torre (33:50)

This is the Dan Levatar show with the stugats.

Dan Le Batard (33:58)

We will get to Tony here in in a segment. We are not going to do that here now because there's a limited amount of time here and I wanted to talk about a couple of things from yesterday. Not the two plays that I wanted to talk about from the football game because that Bijan Robins doesn't make any physical sense that he would be able to break that last tackle while staying in bounds. His lower body must be stronger than anyone's in the leagues because that didn't make physical physics sense to me. That he did not go out of bounds given that there was a defender with an angle on him and the sideline there. And also that Drake London play at the end of the first half was just magic. It was Just great. But before I get to either of those plays from last night's action, I do want to talk about the baseball and I want to talk about the baseball, not Blake Snell Division. Even though Blake Snell, what he's been doing over the last six starts is something I have not seen from a pitcher before. Not Oral Hersheyser, not anybody over the last six starts.

Stugotz (35:04)

That soft spot you have for former Rays.

Dan Le Batard (35:06)

I think I do have a soft spot for former Rays, but also Blake Snell is the best left hander I've seen since Clayton Kershaw, who's not named Scubal. So the thing that I wanted to talk about though, from the Milwaukee game and what it takes to try to beat Blake's now is a double play that has never happened in baseball and is funny. And I'm going to try and explain to the audio audience because I heard Mike trying to come in here today and just understand what the play was based on verbal description, because verbal description makes it hard to describe what is a play that has no precedent in the history of American baseball, which has more history than any sport we have. I'm gonna try and explain this in just audio. Billy's gonna delight in this play cuz he's already wanting to make a mess of my explanation. No, I said, billy, I see you, Billy, I see you. Lean up.

Billy Gil (36:00)

He doesn't need to do anything to do that.

Dan Le Batard (36:02)

Billy, I've seen you lean in your chair.

Stugotz (36:05)

I just. There's. There's ways of describing it with words and there's ways it's described on the scorecard and it could have played out differently on a scorecard to show how unique of a play it was, the fact that it ends up being on the scorecard numerically the way it's represented. I'm positive that there have been multiple instances where a game has been scored a double play with those identical numbers.

Dan Le Batard (36:29)

Go ahead.

Stugotz (36:31)

What do you mean?

Dan Le Batard (36:31)

Go ahead and explain what it is that you're.

Stugotz (36:34)

Numerically.

Dan Le Batard (36:35)

Yes.

Stugotz (36:36)

Well, numerically you would go the person who receives the ball to the person who throws the ball to the person who.

Dan Le Batard (36:41)

I haven't heard any numbers yet from you. I've just heard you explain.

Stugotz (36:44)

The pay would go up probably 8, 6, 2 or 8, 5, 2, depending on who received it, who got it, 8, 6, 2.

Mike Ryan (36:51)

And then unassisted, 8, 6, 2.

Stugotz (36:53)

Then the unassisted. Now had it gone 8, 6, 2, 5. I'm sure that that is not a common double play because of the fact that at the end of the play Spoiler alert. The catcher decided to run down and touch third base. Well, that's what makes it would make it seem like it could have just been a typical pop fly that was then thrown cut off. And then there was a second out made at home plate on a player tagging, which is not uncommon.

Dan Le Batard (37:17)

You want to try and explain this to the audience with words, numbers?

Stugotz (37:22)

Well, I'm just the words. And that's why I'm saying the numbers don't do it justice.

Mike Ryan (37:26)

The numbers never lie.

Billy Gil (37:27)

I don't know the numbers. I know you're 643 1. That's all I know.

Stugotz (37:31)

Pitcher, 2, catcher 3, first base. Stop me. When you want me to stop, I.

Billy Gil (37:38)

Want you to stop. It's like astrology. I'm just never gonna take it in.

Dan Le Batard (37:41)

You don't ever do any scorekeeping? You've never done baseball scorekeeping?

Billy Gil (37:47)

I'm a grown man who has sex.

Stugotz (37:48)

You never got the shirt that says four plus six plus three equals two.

Dan Le Batard (37:53)

So you don't know. If I ask you the shortstop, what is the shortstop? Numerically, you don't know the number.

Billy Gil (37:58)

I assume that's a six because there's a six, four, three.

Dan Le Batard (38:00)

Yes.

Billy Gil (38:01)

And so the shortstop's six, second baseman's the four, and the three is the first base. That's all I got.

Dan Le Batard (38:08)

Okay, so the third baseman. You want to try the third baseman? Nope.

Pablo Torre (38:11)

Okay, it's a5.1 number.

Dan Le Batard (38:13)

So this is the play. The bases are loaded and a shot is hit towards center field. And you've heard me say that I can't believe the number of outfielders in baseball who are regularly stealing home runs. This is something that I'm watching happen in baseball more than I've ever seen it happen. It happens every week. It's a really weird thing to watch when it used to be an incredibly special play, but Sam Fralich, Sal Froehlick, excuse me, is headed toward the wall. And as he jumps up at the wall, which is very far from first, second, third base, very far from home plate, it's going to be very hard if you're a baserunner, to see what's happened here, because he jumps up at the wall, the wall, over the wall, the ball hits his glove, and it looks, unless you're close to it, it looks like he bobbles it and then catches it after it's hit his glove. But as he's out there, it also hits the wall. So now it is no longer able to be caught because once it hits the wall, it is now not capable of an out in his glove.

Mike Ryan (39:25)

Correct.

Dan Le Batard (39:25)

It's got to be an out on one of the bases, but you can't see third base. So what all these runners have to do is go back to the bag and tag up and then go. So they eliminate all the force outs. But they don't know this. They just. They think that this person may have caught the ball on the bobble. They're confused. And now the Dodger base runners in a 00 game, in a game where the brewers know they're not scoring on Blake Snell. There will be no scoring on Blake Snell in this game. They're doing everything they can to stop the Dodgers from scoring a run, and they somehow do it because the base runners. Professional bas runners. Very good. The Dodgers are very good at the specifics of baseball. They don't know what to do with. I can't see what just happened out there. And I didn't see. And I don't see that this is a live ball because the ball has hit the wall. It looks like Freylich has caught the ball.

Mike Ryan (40:17)

That's the part that's. That's crazy, is all of the runners stay still for just a moment. And for him to not just keep the concentration to catch this ball, but to keep the concentration to catch the ball off of the wall when you can later see the confusion on his about what's happened, because I'm not sure he even realized that the ball hit off of the wall when he caught it. He's just trying to throw it in as fast as he can to the cutoff man. A perfect throw, which then allows that cutoff man to make a perfect throw home to the catcher to get what is not a play that needs to be tagged, but a force out at home.

Dan Le Batard (40:58)

That's crazy.

Mike Ryan (40:59)

That is this close.

Dan Le Batard (41:00)

A force out at home when that ball was at the wall doesn't make any.

Pablo Torre (41:06)

No, you gotta treat that as a.

Billy Gil (41:07)

Sac fly if you're a baserunner.

Dan Le Batard (41:09)

And in all essence, you need to.

Billy Gil (41:11)

Go back to the base, wait until at least the second attempt to catch that ball so you can tag up and score.

Pablo Torre (41:16)

So at the very least, there'll probably.

Billy Gil (41:18)

Be a force player second. If you went out.

Stugotz (41:20)

Roy was walking us through what he would have done differently this morning and how none of that should have happened.

Pablo Torre (41:24)

Yeah, it was bad baserunning.

Dan Le Batard (41:26)

Agreed. But agreed that. That. That is not up for dispute. But I understand why the base running was bad, at least in part because of the confusion at the wa. But the idea that they then get another out at third base that they got the outs at home and at third when the ball was going to be a home run like he kept. The first thing Froelich did is that would have been a home run if he had not had his glove above the wall. Now he brings it back, it hits the wall and what should have been a home run. How frustrated are you if you're this hitter, what should have been a playoff home run is forever. A double play like that.

Mike Ryan (42:03)

And by the way, a grounded into.

Stugotz (42:05)

A double play, technically now I have a bone to pick with that situation. That is not a grounded into double play. That's how it scored it. That way you cannot score grounded into double play on a ball that's hit 400ft in the air.

Pablo Torre (42:17)

It would be a fielder's choice round.

Stugotz (42:18)

Into a double play. Now it's not a fielder's choice because it ended up being a double play. No one got safe at first, right?

Dan Le Batard (42:27)

Put it on the poll, please. At lebatard show. Is there any way possible to ground into a double play on a ball you've hit 400ft over the fence? Because there's not. And yet I just saw it.

Mike Ryan (42:42)

It happened.

Dan Le Batard (42:42)

No.

Mike Ryan (42:43)

In front of your own eyes.

Pablo Torre (42:44)

No.

Dan Le Batard (42:44)

There's not a way. No, there is not a way to ground into a double play on a ball hit 400ft over the fence and.

Mike Ryan (42:51)

Ground into a double play in which the catcher runs to third base about 20 seconds after the ball was.

Dan Le Batard (42:57)

The next thing you're going to tell me is that Cam Ward threw a game winning interception for touchdown.

Stugotz (43:03)

Thursday Night Football is on and it's only on Prime Video. This week, the AFC north takes center stage as the Pittsburgh Steelers battle the Cincinnati Bengals. Coverage begins at 7pm Eastern with football's best party TNF. Tonight, not a Prime member. Not a problem. Simply sign up for a 30 day free trial. It's the Steelers and the Bengals Thursday at 7pm M. Eastern only on Prime Video. Restrictions apply. See Amazon. Com Amazon prime for details.