Hour 1: Minnesota (feat. Carl E. Douglas)

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Episode: Hour 1: Minnesota (feat. Carl E. Douglas)
Date: January 26, 2026
Location: Elser Hotel, Downtown Miami

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Episode Overview

In this intense and impassioned episode, Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, and the crew, joined by renowned attorney Carl E. Douglas, tackle a string of topics ranging from the mundane (Miami marathons, football movies, valet parking gripes) to the deeply troubling political events unfolding in Minnesota. The conversation zeroes in on recent high-profile shootings by federal immigration enforcement officers against protesters in Minnesota and the subsequent misinformation and propaganda campaigns—leading to a sobering exploration of policing, state power, protest, and American ideals.

Carl E. Douglas offers expert legal commentary, historical context, and cautions for listeners, making this hour both a warning and a call to awareness.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

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1. Football Movie Debate (00:37–04:23)

• Dan Le Batard proposes a list of top football movies: Friday Night Lights, Remember the Titans, Jerry Maguire, North Dallas 40, The Longest Yard.
• Michael objects to Jerry Maguire being a football movie and floats Rudy and Draft Day as replacements.
• Lighthearted banter about football movies as a window into pop culture preferences.
• Quote (02:13, Michael): “You’re counting Jerry Maguire? I object to that!”

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2. Craig Berube’s Mysterious Scar & Athlete Alibis (04:25–06:38)

• The crew jokes about Toronto Maple Leafs coach Craig Berube’s “weight room accident” and share skepticism based on the scar’s improbability.
• Parallels drawn with old wrestling stories (Hulk Hogan’s unexplained injuries).
• Quote (05:34, Roy, sarcastic): “A utensil that cuts in parabolas and an upside down smile?”
• Memorable Moment: The group speculating in mock seriousness about outrageous injury explanations.

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3. The Cashless Economy & Valet Parking Frustrations (06:50–10:44)

• Dan vents about modern businesses refusing cash, especially Miami valets, and the normalization of this inconvenience.
• Fear of credit card info theft voiced, with personal anecdotes from crew members who’ve suffered identity fraud.
• Quote (08:29, Dan): “I pay by legal tender in this dystopian place.”
• Quote (10:26, Roy): “It’s the bullshit. That’s the bullshit. It’s the bullshit.”
• Conversation captures the generational and technological dissonance in daily American life.

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4. Transition to Serious Themes – Minnesota’s “Secret Police” & Protest Shootings (13:51–18:52)

• Dan signals a shift to heavier topics: Minnesota protests, federal ICE involvement, deaths of Alex Preddy and Renee Goode.
• Dan draws a chilling parallel to Cuba’s descent into authoritarianism, warning about unqualified armed state agents.
• Quote (16:25, Dan):

  “It begins with giving power to people who shouldn’t have it and who really like having that power.”

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5. Carl Douglas on Policing, State Violence, and American Ideals (24:55–41:50)

Background and Context

• Carl contextualizes recent Minnesota events within his four-decade experience representing victims of police violence.
• Notes stark differences in training: standard police (6 months), ICE agents (42 days).

On Use of Deadly Force

• Both victims, Alex Preddy and Renee Goode, were not a threat when shot.
• Critique of the “warrior mentality” overtaking law enforcement: us vs. them.
• Outlines how post-shooting disinformation campaigns (“domestic terrorist” labels) further victimize families.

Legal System Realities

• Difficulty in seeking justice against federal agencies in court, especially since federal cases lack a jury—reducing public influence on verdicts.
• The importance of jury trials in expressing public outrage and checking power.

Why Minnesotan Events Matter Nationally

• Carl and Dan highlight how these events, though geographically distant for most listeners, touch on national values about humanity and resistance to unchecked authority.
• Quote (32:10, Carl Douglas):

  “We are a nation of humanity. We’re different, we’re special … There has to be some substance, resistance to those ideals that we Americans hold dear.”

Advice for Protesters

• Carl laments that every Black father must teach their children to de-escalate and survive police encounters.
• Extends this advice to everyone considering protesting in today’s climate.
• Quote (37:23, Carl Douglas):

  “Your number one job is to get home … everyone should sit down and have conversations … if they are considering the risky nature now of exercising your First Amendment rights.”

Prospects for Change

• Cautious pessimism about cycles of public opinion; sees slight potential for a shift as victims’ demographics expand.
• Criticism of selective Second Amendment advocacy: right-wing groups decrying Preddy’s gun ownership despite recent Supreme Court decisions expanding gun rights.

Memorable Quotes

• (24:55, Carl Douglas): “What I’ve seen over the last month is consistent with what I’ve seen over the last 45 years of representing families … who have been victimized by law enforcement.”
• (29:11, Carl Douglas): “There is no absolute immunity if you use force unreasonably.”
• (34:49, Carl Douglas): “It is their playbook … almost automatically, within minutes if not hours of a tragedy, they are labeled domestic terrorists … reflects the partisanship … that has engulfed our country.”
• (39:34, Carl Douglas): “It is a roller coaster of public opinion … the more things change, the more they remain the same.”

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6. A Closing Warning and Call for Engagement (41:37–41:53)

• Dan closes by noting the eternal sadness of these recurring conversations, urging continued vigilance and public engagement.
• Quote (41:50, Carl Douglas): “Dan, always a pleasure. Please have me back.”

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Important Timestamps

• 00:37 – Beginning of the football movie debate
• 04:25–06:38 – Discussion/jokes about Craig Berube’s injury and athlete practices
• 06:50 – Dan rails against Miami’s valet and the cashless economy
• 13:51 – Dan signals shift to protest violence in Minnesota
• 16:25 – Dan’s comparison to Cuba and authoritarian drift
• 24:55 – Carl Douglas joins, begins legal and cultural analysis
• 29:11 – Absolute immunity and law enforcement misconduct discussion
• 32:10 – Why this issue should matter to all Americans
• 34:49 – Vilification of victims via propaganda
• 37:23 – Advice for protesters
• 39:34 – Public opinion cycles and the challenge of real reform
• 40:48 – Second Amendment selective advocacy
• 41:50 – Episode close, Carl Douglas farewell

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Notable Moments & Tone

• Dan’s monologues—passionate, frustrated, analogies to historical authoritarianism.
• Carl Douglas—measured, deeply experienced, and somber in outlook, but resolute in advocating for law, humanity, and protest.
• Humor & banter—earlier sections maintain the show’s trademark joking and pop-culture references before yielding to earnest, direct commentary.
• Memorable emotional tone—the clear emotional weight of Carl Douglas’s experience and Dan’s warnings provide urgency and gravity, leavened at times by the group’s rapport.

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Takeaways

• The existence and acceptance of “secret” state power in America, highlighted by killings and cover-ups in Minnesota, is both alarming and historically familiar.
• Legal recourse can be limited and unsatisfying when fighting the federal government.
• These events are symptomatic of larger societal shifts—towards fear-based policing, us vs. them mentalities, and competing versions of American ideals.
• Protest and vigilance remain crucial—even, or especially, when it feels futile or dangerous.
• The episode ultimately serves as a stark reminder: The freedom to protest and survive should not be conditional, and the normalization of injustice anywhere threatens justice everywhere.

Transcript

[Dan Le Batard]

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[Roy]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Learn [e-mail] M365 copilot this is the.

[Carl Douglas]

Dan Lebatar show with the Stugats podcast.

[Dan Le Batard]

Put it on the poll, please, at lebatar show if you were watching football for the first time yesterday, do you think that you would say those four teams were playing the same sport? That those two games were the same sport? I had that weird thought yesterday, absent context. If you didn't know what jogging and marathoning was because the Miami Marathon sort of shut down all of Miami Sunday Morning, where you couldn't get anywhere because you had thousands of people who have flown in from all over running down the street. And if you didn't know what marathons were, you'd just think that a bunch of people were being chased by something giant. You know, it starts off with the Kenyans are in front of everybody, and then the incredibly fit, obsessive people. And then it's, you know, a guy dressed as Batman is running through the streets. But you would be confused by the I couldn't walk my dog across Ocean Drive because you couldn't get across the street at any point. With a path much of opening between the sheer number of people who were running through our city and one of the few places in the United States that you could run yesterday, given the weather.

[Roy]

It's a beautiful marathon. My wife did it a couple of years ago. She did the half, not the full, but she told me once you get down to the MacArthur, it's basically a.

[Carl Douglas]

Straight shot where you're in the water.

[Roy]

And you're on the beach and it's awesome. But yeah, I would never do that.

[Dan Le Batard]

At Le Batard show as well. Put this on the poll. These are the five I'm nominating on football movies. You tell me if I'm missing. You guys want to put Varsity Blues in the program in here? I think the five best we've got are Friday Night Lights. Remember the Titans, Jerry Maguire, North Dallas 40, and the original Longest Yard.

[Michael]

You're counting Jerry Maguire? I object to that.

[Dan Le Batard]

How are you objecting to that football movie? But it is. What do you mean?

[Michael]

It's his last Boy Scout, a football.

[Dan Le Batard]

Movie when there was somebody on the Field breaking through on a touchdown, Shooting people with a gun they pulled from their pants. No, that's not a football movie. Is radio a football movie that's offensive by you? That is just a football. That is Cuba Gooding Jr. Just trying to win an Oscar and going too far. And I believe Robert Downey Jr. Warned Ben Stiller about this in Tropic Thunder. You can't do what Cuba Gooding Jr. Trying to win an Oscar did.

[Michael]

Okay, I have a couple for you that we've left out that definitely are on that list now that they're better movies than Jerry Maguire. I object to Jerry Maguire being a football movie. Number one, Rudy. Rudy's a great movie. Come on. What are we doing?

[Dan Le Batard]

Is it.

[Michael]

I know we don't like Notre Dame, but Rudy's a great movie.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't know. Rudy's a great matter.

[Jeremy]

Boring.

[Michael]

Number two, and I'm sorry, I refuse to hear any kind of pushback. You know, about that. Sonny Weaver, Jr. Go ahead and put.

[Dan Le Batard]

Rudy on there as well. Just put those movies up there and have people pick from Draft Day.

[Michael]

Dan. Draft Day.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, you are not doing it.

[Michael]

He got all his picks back.

[Dan Le Batard]

Kevin Costner and Draft Day is not a great movie.

[Michael]

Sonny Weaver got all of his picks back. Why? Because he felt like it.

[Dan Le Batard]

You're disqualified from talking about great football movies.

[Michael]

What a movie.

[Jeremy]

Dark Knight Rises.

[Dan Le Batard]

Amin is right about you and your questionable movie judgment. Can we get up and forgive me, audio audience, for doing this to you, but I suggest you look this up on Internet if you have not seen it. Can we put Craig Berubi, the Toronto Maple Leafs coach, up on the screen and he says he had a weight room accident and I just don't know how. He was lifting weights. I don't. I want you guys to help me. This scar looks like something out of the movie Saw. If I told you that this person was out of the movie Saw and had been tortured in the movie, I'm going to try to explain this to the audio audience, okay? There's a lot of forehead on this man. He has the tremendous cul de sac that makes his hair start at the top of his skull. Okay? The very top of his skull, the middle of his skull is where his hair starts. And right before that hair starts, he has a parabola, an injury that runs basically from one eyebrow to the other. A rainbow of blood, a scar that seems impossible. I don't even know what happened to him in the weight room. Do you guys have any theories? Did a weight fall on his head?

[Michael]

Nothing. Happened in a weight room.

[Dan Le Batard]

You think he's lying about what the injury is Zaz.

[Roy]

You know about that? WrestleMania 9.

[Michael]

Oh, of course. You remember Caesar's palace?

[Roy]

Yes. Brutus and Barbara. Beefcake and Hulk Hogan. Yeah. Tag teaming. Yeah.

[Michael]

20 ink.

[Roy]

Hulk Hogan shows up, his face all.

[Michael]

Jacked up, black eye, Macho.

[Roy]

You know what they told us?

[Michael]

Macho punched him in the eye.

[Roy]

But you know what they told us?

[Carl Douglas]

What?

[Roy]

Gym accident.

[Michael]

Oh, yeah, that was a gym accident, Dan.

[Dan Le Batard]

Okay, so what do you guys have happening here? You guys don't believe it's a gym accident? You believe that he's lying? Correct.

[Roy]

Because of WrestleMania 9?

[Dan Le Batard]

I thought this of Pat Riley once. I remember, remember Pat Riley showed up for a morning press conference when he was coaching the heat and he had a giant, giant scar on the top of his head. And he said he got it swimming. And I'm like, that's not true. That can't be true. Something else had to have happened there. There's no way that you would get that giant scar on your face from swimming. Okay, so you guys believe Craig Berube to be a liar here? Tell me what happened to him. Do you think that someone cut him with some sort of utensil that cuts.

[Roy]

In parabolas and an upside down smile?

[Michael]

I mean, I think that Jigsaw got a hold of him. The joker, maybe in one of the saw traps.

[Roy]

Got a key in his frontal lobe. He had to cut it open with a. This is what it would look like if Home alone were more realistic. Listen, I'm not going to call somebody.

[Carl Douglas]

Who'S a liar who happens to be.

[Roy]

Seventh all time in penalty minutes in league history. Yeah, you don't want to get on that side. That's right. Thank you, Roy.

[Carl Douglas]

You want the honest answer?

[Roy]

Skull crusher. You ever done those, Dan?

[Dan Le Batard]

Yes, I have.

[Roy]

Okay, well, you know, you know when.

[Carl Douglas]

You got a real heavy.

[Michael]

Yeah, you got a real heavy skull crusher.

[Carl Douglas]

You're like, I hope this doesn't crush my skull.

[Roy]

And then all of a sudden a scar. Doesn't really make sense, though.

[Dan Le Batard]

You guys think he's lying, that you guys are officially lying.

[Michael]

I know he's lying.

[Dan Le Batard]

You know he's lying.

[Michael]

I know he's lying.

[Roy]

Well, you said it, not me. I'm not going to call him a liar.

[Michael]

Whatever I just did. Who cares? What's Craig Baruby going to do?

[Roy]

WrestleMania 9, the Chief, he's seventh in.

[Dan Le Batard]

In penalty minutes of all time. What do you mean is. What is he going to do?

[Michael]

So what's he going to do. What's he going to do? What's.

[Dan Le Batard]

Craig.

[Carl Douglas]

Hey, Craig.

[Michael]

Ruby, I think you're lying. What you could do about nothing. Do nothing.

[Dan Le Batard]

Who cares?

[Michael]

Penalty minutes, sucker. Lose the Panthers again.

[Dan Le Batard]

Craig Baruby, did you just try to make the camera flinch by just watching? By thrusting an eyebrow toward the camera? That's what you just did. You did it again. Okay, very good. Threatening. I had another incident this weekend with people who will not take my cash. I continue to get more and more upset about this. George Sodano misrepresented me last week when he shouted. He said I was shouting in a carport. This is America. Jack A. I didn't say jack. When valet wouldn't take my cash money. I did not say this is America either. I said that in America, cash is still good cash for now. Cash is still good in America. And I evidently sounded just like this guy. We have played this sound before, but I cannot get enough of this sound that I can't believe that I am now this person.

[Carl Douglas]

I'm gonna buy some strawberries. And I'm offering exactly the right amount of money here on the help desk. So you people take that money. £1 19.

[Michael]

And I will take my strawberries outside.

[Carl Douglas]

Take. Police is on their way.

[Dan Le Batard]

You can't take that.

[Carl Douglas]

I pay by legal tender. I pay by legal tender. And I am going out with my.

[Dan Le Batard]

Iv. I pay by legal tender in this dystopian place.

[Roy]

Yeah, hero.

[Dan Le Batard]

I feel like I should be applauded when I do things like this again. When I talk about the normalization of things, okay? The thing that pissed me off the first time, and I think this is a reasonable thing to piss me off. You don't have parking. You do not allow me to park my own car because you don't have a place that has parking. Therefore, I must pay you whatever you decide to go take my car somewhere. And in this case, it's $16, and which is cheaper than it is in most places in Miami. This is a grift of the highest order. A giant business is formed around your ability to just steal my money because you don't have parking that allows me to park my own car. How have we gotten used to this? And how have we gotten used to the combination of this and you won't take my cash when I try to give it to you. My cash is no good. I have to give you my information. So somebody who's an employee for two days will have my credit card information. Now, this is the way the transaction works. How much of this. Am I supposed to eat before I get upset about this?

[Roy]

So then you drive up to the valet and you're like, all right, I'm going to valet my car here. I'm going to this spot.

[Carl Douglas]

And they told you, okay, great. But you can only use car.

[Roy]

There's no cash.

[Dan Le Batard]

They didn't tell me that beforehand.

[Roy]

Okay, so you drop off your car, you think everything's good, you go to pay, you take out a nice crisp.

[Carl Douglas]

20, you give the guy a 20.

[Roy]

Nice little $4 tip, everybody's happy.

[Carl Douglas]

And he said, I can't take this.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's right.

[Carl Douglas]

And he said, only card.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's correct.

[Roy]

That guy's an idiot.

[Dan Le Batard]

You've got. No, but that's. And then he got. Gets his manager, and I've got to give you all my information now, too. It's not just that you have to rip. It's not just that you rip me off with the parking. And this is now normal. And it's not just that you won't take my cash. Now you also get to use my credit card. Michael tell you what bullshit it is to have your identity stolen by somebody and what a headache it is to get your.

[Roy]

It's the bullshit. That's the bullshit. It's the bullshit.

[Michael]

The bullshit's happened to you, the bullshit.

[Roy]

Has happened to me.

[Dan Le Batard]

And how annoying is that to try and clear all that up when somebody has just used your credit card information? And look, man.

[Roy]

Oh, file taxes as me. It was just a nightmare for, like, several years, but now it happens so often that it's a lot easier. But I had it when you didn't want it.

[Carl Douglas]

Wow.

[Dan Le Batard]

I still don't think that you want any of that.

[Michael]

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[Carl Douglas]

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[Jeremy]

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[Carl Douglas]

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[Jeremy]

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[Carl Douglas]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[Roy]

Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

[Carl Douglas]

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[Roy]

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[Carl Douglas]

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[Roy]

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[Carl Douglas]

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[Carl Douglas]

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[Carl Douglas]

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[Carl Douglas]

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[Carl Douglas]

We're gonna win.

[Dan Le Batard]

They're annoying.

[Carl Douglas]

Old reference this is the Dan Levatar show with the stugats.

[Dan Le Batard]

By the way, if you found me annoying as you often do and did in the first two hours of the show, this hour is going to be even more annoying because Carl Douglas, our legal expert, is going to join us. We haven't talked to him in a while, and what we're going to talk to him about is some of the other un American things that are happening now in Minnesota, where we have protesters running the risk of being shot by fake police because we're okay with Donald Trump's unqualified state militia not only killing protesters and then sending out an assortment of disinformation that puts a family that's already grieving into the position of feeling like someone who's already a victim is going to be vilified with an assortment of things that aren't facts as the government behaves in a way that feels like disinformation and propaganda and lies. And I will tell you, as someone who has only borrowed from my parents and grandparents all the stories about what it feels like to have your freedom taken away, that the stories that my family told about how communism crept into freedom and took away rights so that Cuba is the rotting island that you see today. It begins with giving power to people who shouldn't have it and who really like having that power. Unqualified people. So if normal police officers are doing a job that's so difficult that very often tragedies arise all the time, injustices and brutalities, because you have police officers who are armed, who are also afraid. And therefore you get into situations where police officers do wrong things. Police officers who, as is, are often unqualified because it's a very job to be a very hard job to be qualified for, to put more of them in the streets and give them power and give them arms and then defend them when they do the wrong thing. And then tell us that our eyes are lying to us and then get subsequent video that shows you, no, our eyes were not lying to us. The government is lying to us. In defense of fake police. We're going to talk about this with Carl Douglas because it's super weird. Among all the weird things happening in America now, to see this happening in Minnesota, it's like one of the whitest places in the world. You should be safe protesting there. You should not be a family begging your governor, please tell the story of our son. Please tell people that he was good, that he was a nurse, that he was trying to do the right things. They canceled when the first time this happened. This happened a mile away from the last time it happened. It's just, I'm telling you, it's really weird to see the city of George Floyd, now, five years later, this is a super white city. To see Minnesota descend into something where it's not safe to protest because you cannot trust that your government is going to tell the truth about what it is that's happened in the streets. And you have to be thankful for the fact that everyone's got a camera phone now. Because the difference is, the only difference between the horror stories that my grandparents and my parents tell about the falling of freedom is that we now have the video that tells us the truth so that everyone can be properly outraged by things that I'm gonna say that even though we can't get consensus on just about anything and people are divided along political lines, I think we have reached a breaking point where Americans are looking at something and saying, yeah, that's not right. That's not what this country is supposed to be in terms of freedom, that you are protesting peacefully and you do have a right to bear arms. And we just saw a video that shows that this person was shot after he was any kind of threat, even though he was armed. These people are not qualified to be doing the job that they're doing. Cubans. Cubans in Florida are being depressed, deported at a rate that is record high in Florida because of the vilifying of brown people and black people. But now we're killing innocent white people. And that seems to be at least something of a breaking point for Americans where they're like, yeah, this isn't okay. You can't have people who aren't qualified to do this job acting in a way that is criminal.

[Carl Douglas]

Criminal, Yeah.

[Jeremy]

I think the big thing that I keep coming back to and that I hope people can understand is, like, it's not too late to change your mind. It's not too late to look at this and maybe have advocated for it before and think immigration policy is one thing and say, no. Like, this has gone too far. And we. We can disagree about a whole bunch of different stuff. It could be immigration policy. It could be queer inclusion. It could be taxes. It could be anything. We can have those debates another day. Like, that doesn't mean that you have to dig your heels in on this one. No matter how annoying you might find me or Dan or anyone on this side of the aisle. I don't think that even if you find someone annoying, you should think that it's okay for them to be gunned down in the street by a secret police. Not me, not an immigrant, not you, not anybody. And to me, this is, like, evolved really far beyond immigration enforcement. Like, this is just about fear, intimidation. And you can see what's happening, like, right in front of your eyes. There's video. It's all being laid out in front of you. It's why this regime and any fascist regime would really love AI because it can blur the lines between what reality is and isn't. But you don't have to stay steadfast on your side in this one. Like, it's okay to change your mind. Nobody's going to judge you whether you hear the words of Renee Good and Alex Preddy at the end of their lives. And it's hey, you know, are you okay? Is what Alex Preddy's last words were. And Renee Goode's last words are, I'm not mad at you, man. I'm not mad at you, dude. And yet you have officers who their next words are effing B and boo hoo to a group of protesters nearby. Like, this is a space where the people in charge are no longer in favor of the people. You literally have the Secretary of Defense tweeting ice greater than sign Minnesota. Like, that is not the space that any of us want to be in. And it's okay for you to wonder, like, what would I do if these people came to my town and which side would I want to be on so you don't have to accept it. Like, you can decide enough is enough and change your mind on this.

[Roy]

And keep in mind how this all starts. They blame Somalis, but in actuality, the state of Minnesota voted against Donald Trump in the three elections that he was in. So really, this is just President Trump being vindictive and going after the state. Quick break to talk to you about Miller Light, a partner of ours, basically. Since our show's inception, Miller Lite has been there for so many great memories, especially recently this wintertime. Lots of trips to Texas, one Arizona, surrounded by friends, welcoming in a new year and toasting that beautiful white can of Miller Lite. My favorite beer and an incredible partner. For almost half of its 50 year existence, Miller Lite has been partnered up with the Dan LeBatard show and we could not be more grateful. Some of my most legendary moments have started with let's get some Miller Lights. Whether it be a buddy's house, a watch party, at the game, or post game, you crack open a Miller Light, you take a sip, you look around at your friends and you think, yeah, this was the right call. You're locked into the game, the conversation, the moment, not thinking about what you're drinking. Miller Lite just fits. Legendary moments. Start with Miller Lite. Great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[Jeremy]

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[Roy]

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[Jeremy]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Carl Douglas has represented everyone from Tupac to OJ Simpson. He's on today because he's shaken, as are we, by what he's seeing happen in this country. For those of you who do not know, he mentioned the name Alex Preddy. A federal immigration officer killed Alex Preddy, a 37 year old intensive care unit nurse. He was protesting a mile away from where Renee Goode was shot. Carl, thank you for joining us. What do you make of what it is that you have seen happen over the last month? And it's nice to see you again, even under the circumstances.

[Carl Douglas]

Dan, it's always a pleasure being with you and your team. What I've seen over the last month is consistent with what I've seen over the last 45 years of representing families like Renee Good, Alex Pretty who have been victimized by law enforcement. Let me start by saying, Dan, being a cop is tough, but not everyone is good at it. I've had cases of people being shot behind the steering wheels. I've had cases of people being injured during protests. I've had trials last year and the year before in Los Angeles. From protesters who've been injured. I know that every state in America has an organization called Post Peace Officers Standards and Training. And there's a training program for post in every state. That training program is six months long. By comparison, the training program of ice is 42 days. It is not possible for even the best trained POST officers to deal with the stress and the tension that comes when American protesters are against you. Cops are human too. They lose their tempers. They don't like ice. They don't like having their evenings disrupted because there are people with whistles outside of their hotel in a foreign city. So tensions are tough. And when there is the kind of rhetoric, rhetoric that we see from Washington blindly supporting whatever they do, however outrageous it is, it emboldens them. It's in that context where there's already tension, where every moment of their professional lives, they're being the subject of this backlash that emboldens them to be more aggressive. Alex Pretty, as you and your listeners I'm sure knows, was unarmed when he was shot. An officer had removed whatever weapons he lawfully carried when he was shot. Renee Good was trying to get away when she was shot and there were two shots fired in the side of the window of her open driver's side door door as she was past the officer and he was no longer in threat. Officers are not trained to simply fire until they're out of bullets. They're trained to fire only when they are confronted with an imminent threat. And in the case of Alex Pretty, 10 shots after he was unarmed is clearly excessive. But when you have ICE officials coming out within minutes of the shooting calling the victims domestic terrorists, that emboldens the cops. When you have protesters that are continuing to be vocal, that emboldens the top, the cops, and it raises the tension. So, Dan, regrettably, I hope you have me on your show again. This is going to happen again. It may not be in Minneapolis, it may be in Boston, it may be in Chicago, it may be in Detroit. But when you have marauders who are not uniformed driving common looking SUVs riding six deep, it will continue to foster a circumstance when other lesser trained officers are going to be afraid, frightened and emboldened and there will be more citizens killed.

[Roy]

The vice president said that the officer that shot Renee Good was, quote, unquote, protected by absolute immunity. Is that true?

[Carl Douglas]

There is no absolute immunity if you use force unreasonably. And it is so. And it's so terrible, Roy, that they're not even investigating the conduct of the officer in the Renee Good setting. There is a universal thought among law enforcement that shooting at moving vehicles are discouraged, especially or unless there is some deadly threat separate from the vehicle itself. Because shooting a gun is reckless, meant it's not like you see on television. You're shooting all over the place. And innocent people can be injured by the stray bullets and often are. So there are universal trainings over the course of your six months, not just 42 days that you never shoot at a moving vehicle. You get your butt out of the way. And clearly with Renee Good, two of the shots went through the open driver's side window. Window. I'm sure she was shot in the head. And it's terrible that after the shootings they simply allow the bodies to lay there and bleed out. They prevented doctors who were present in each instance, health care providers to come to the scene to try to give aid to the fallen victims. That shows how there's now a warrior mentality up us versus them. They are the bad guys, we are the good guys. And that warrior mentality is at the basis of most uses of unreasonable force. That coupled with fear, because cops are people too, and cops are afraid. And when they are emboldened, what they'll do first is draw on their weapons or use their force. You saw how Pretty was pepper sprayed right in the face because he came to the aid of another innocent protester or woman who had been pushed down. You saw how six cops pounded on him immediately, not knowing what he had done simply because he was in the way. That is the attitude and the culture that all Americans should stand up against. And then most of my clients look like me. Some of my clients look like you. But few of my clients look like Renee Good and Alice Pretty. So hopefully this is a wake up call for your listeners. But for the grace of God, any of you can be victimized by these lawless enforcement agents.

[Dan Le Batard]

Beyond that, when people say, I don't live in Minneapolis or a city facing ICE raids or mass protests, why should I care? Why should they care beyond what you just said?

[Carl Douglas]

Because we are a nation of humanity. We're different, we're special. And that's just not a saying. That's just not rhetoric. There has to be some substance, resistance to those ideals that we Americans hold dear. That's why it's so very important, even if you don't live in Minneapolis, that you have to make your voices heard and protest.

[Roy]

For those who survive these encounters with.

[Carl Douglas]

Ice, what are their legal recourses that they can use? It is very difficult when you sue an agency of the federal government. You have to sue them, Roy. In federal court. When you sue a federal governmental agency in federal court, there's not a right to a jury. So everyone who is victimized who sues in federal court has a judge trial. When there's a judge trial rather than a jury trial, Sometimes the public interest is not always reflected in the verdict. Sometimes the public outrage is not always reflected in the rulings. That's why we trial lawyers prefer having our cases heard by normal citizens. We're one of the few countries on earth Earth, Roy, that has citizen juries deciding acts of wrongful death against our authorities. England has defamation. Some countries have a couple of clauses, causes of action. But only in America can the people reflect the outrage of the moment by their voices in a jury. That's why it's so very important.

[Dan Le Batard]

How do you feel about the White House or Homeland Security trying to portray victims as dangerous terrorists? The justifying of these killings. Cuz I was mentioning it's one thing to just have the horror of the grief of. What do you mean? I've lost my son. But then to watch what happens immediately next as your son or daughter is vilified and turned into someone dangerous or terrorist by political propaganda. Make something that's already the worst even worse, Dan.

[Carl Douglas]

It is their playbook that they are using almost automatically, within minutes, if not hours of a tragedy. And there will be others. They are labeled domestic terrorists, which is such an outrageous insult. But it reflects the partisanship, regrettably, that has so engulfed our country. The fact that the political leanings of a particular state or a city is the basis for focus is outrageous. Is un American. The last time I looked, the president is the president of all of us. And until President 45 they always embrace that notion. Even if you didn't vote for me, I'm your president. I want to work for you. Until that attitude, that foundational notion changes in two and a half years, I fear more of this. Blaming the victim is gonna be part of the official discourse.

[Roy]

Everyone's obviously shocked and appalled by the shooting happening. I think Minneapolis police said they have had like 900 consecutive instances in which they've had to disarm someone. And they've always done so without shooting any shots. But for me, almost equally troubling is the lead up to this man being shot. He is on the side of the street with his cell phone protesting what. What seems to be obviously understandable and peacefully. And ICE agents stop their car. They get out, they lay their hands on another protester. He stands in between, still recording them, he gets taken down by approximately seven officers. He is disarmed and then shot to death. What I imagine more people, even though it seems even more dangerous now, are gonna be compelled to go out and protest. He seemed to have been doing things by the book in terms of peacefully protesting and he ended up dead. If people in our audience are moved to go out and protest and they find themselves in a situation that is quickly accelerating and getting out of hand, what advice would you give them?

[Carl Douglas]

Mike I'm the father of a 31 year old black son. Every father of young black men have had the conversations with their children. Your number one job is to get home. At the end of the day, your job is not to enforce or to emphasize, particularly to a nervous officer, how you are in the right, especially in these times. I tell my kids, make sure you leave your hands so they can see them when they stop you in your car. I tell my son, make sure you tell him what you're gonna do before you do it. I'm reaching into my glove box to get my registration like you've asked. Is that okay with you? It's regrettable, tragic, un American that everyone should sit down and have conversations with their children, with their family, with their friends if they are considering the risky nature now of exercising your first amendment rights to protest. Because the administration watches and listens, listens and reacts to the polls. The polls are terrible against the Renee good shooting and only are going to increase more, but only until the rhetoric is reduced will there be any true salvation. And regrettably, you're gonna have me on again to talk about another travesty until people in charge begin to listen.

[Dan Le Batard]

We have only a couple of minutes left, but you mentioned that very few of your clients look like Renee Goode or Alex Preddy. Do you see anything shifting with the idea that these people look different than what is normally at the bottom end of these kinds of injustices? Do you see a shift anywhere in America happen happening?

[Carl Douglas]

Dan as I've always told you, it is a roller coaster of public opinion. George Floyd Things were in favor of police reform. Two years later those sentiments waned and we came to this. It always goes up or down. There's going to be some police officer who is injured and public opinion is going to change again. The more things change, the more they remain the same. But only through exercising your rights is there any hope of a respite. But it goes up and down over the years, probably for eternity.

[Jeremy]

Carl, I'm wondering your thoughts on second amendment advocates in this situation because Alex Preddy was called a domestic terrorist for having a gun. And they said, you know, you don't bring a gun to a peaceful protest, but he was registered to carry in Minnesota where you can do so. And yet this seems to be the general perception where it seems like only the right people can be carrying a gun. What are your thoughts on. On the Second Amendment, folks, sort of backing away from this situation?

[Carl Douglas]

Well, Jeremy, interestingly, I saw this morning that the NRA came against those that are attacking Alex Press simply because he was exercising his rights to own a gun. So there's going to be some twisted analysis going on here because the right doesn't quite understand or sure where they're going to stand. You can't talk about the Supreme Court broadening rights of states to legalize the possession of guns, guns, yet at the same time castigate someone who was exercising their rights. I don't have a gun. I'm scared of guns. But certainly you can't have it both ways. And people on the right are trying to.

[Dan Le Batard]

Carl, thank you, sir. I would say that it's nice seeing you. It usually is, but this is always the subject matter and it's eternally depressing. So thank you for making the time for us early on the west coast, sir.

[Carl Douglas]

Dan, always a pleasure. Please have me back.

[Dan Le Batard]

Thank you, sir.