Hour 1: Pablo Torre Finds Meow (feat. Pablo Torre)

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz – Hour 1: Pablo Torre Finds Meow

Date: February 5, 2026
Featured Guest: Pablo Torre
Location: Elser Hotel, Downtown Miami

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the intersection of sports, justice, and pop culture, blending the show’s signature irreverent banter with an in-depth discussion of wrongful conviction and the American criminal justice system. The hour centers around Pablo Torre’s reporting on Charles Don Flores, a man on Texas death row, as featured in Pablo’s podcast Pablo Torre Finds Out. Along the way, the crew riffs on Super Bowl storylines, sports fandom, NBA rumors, and the peculiarities of “whack-a-mole journalism”—all while keeping the tone lively and the jokes coming.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. “Whack-a-Mole” Metaphor and Producer Pranks

[02:31 – 05:55]

• Dan riffs on feeling like he’s always playing “whack-a-mole” with the show staff—trying to keep up with their bits and curveballs during the live recording. He’s bemused by the younger staff’s fixation on writing “meow” hundreds of times on an index card.
  • “You guys are the moles. I’m the one with the mallet.” (Dan Le Batard, 03:34)
  • The “meow” card is used as an absurd prop to highlight their meta, self-aware show style.

2. Pablo Torre's Investigation: The Story of Charles Don Flores

[05:58 – 21:28]

Background:

• Pablo details the wrongful conviction and death row ordeal of Charles Don Flores:
  • Convicted due to an eyewitness who was hypnotized by police—later outlawed “junk science.”
  • No physical evidence links Flores; the actual confessed killer is already out of prison.

Pablo’s Reportage:

• “I rented a Jeep. I drove to death row. This guy was wrongfully convicted in ways that are crazy.” (Pablo Torre, 07:36)
• Flores, a Cowboys superfan, maintains his innocence and copes by focusing on football and emotional regulation.
  • “He watches the games through little cracks in his solitary confinement cell.” (Pablo Torre, 09:48)
  • “[Flores] has takes that are future oriented, even though he’s the last person you'd imagine would care about the future.” (Pablo Torre, 10:58)

Systemic Failures:

• Discussion on the role of hypnosis in his conviction and the cruelty of a non-retroactive law ban:
  • “...the police hypnotizing the eyewitness who is the only person to tie him to this crime. It’s as if from one of these on-the-nose movies. That’s how they did this shit.” (Pablo Torre, 12:47)
• Flores was five days from execution at one point.
  • “...the way he finds out he’s gotten a stay of execution was over this radio that he has in prison…” (Pablo Torre, 20:11)

Call to Action:

• Pablo encourages listeners to sign a petition for Flores’ freedom.
  • “The petition is actionnetwork.org/petitions/charles. All we can really do ... is just register to the state of Texas that we hear his story.” (Pablo Torre, 13:34)

3. The Power of Sports in Solitude

[09:27 – 11:59]

• Flores is described as finding community and hope through his Cowboys fandom—following games for future gains (draft picks) even as his own future is in jeopardy:
  • “Sports is a way of expressing that he still belongs to society.” (Pablo Torre, 18:17)

4. Prison “Daps” and Show Levity

[21:28 – 24:12]

• The crew jokes about Pablo’s heartfelt fist-bump (“dap”) through prison glass with Flores.
  • “That’s the greatest dap I’ve ever given through prison glass ... you can hear it echo down a hallway.” (Pablo Torre, 21:56)
  • “Is Prison Glass dap the best of all the daps?” – the team debates superior dapping moments with healthy teasing.

5. NBA Trade Deadline & Rumor Mill

[24:12 – 28:36]

• Dan and Mike interrupt with breaking NBA “news” (Gabe Vincent trade, Giannis rumors) and banter about sources and mismanagement.

• Pablo shares inside reporting on Clippers' alleged cap circumvention, potential post-Kawhi era, and ongoing NBA investigations:

  • “NBA coaches actively ... find the idea that the Clippers may escape punishment by the NBA to be so egregious that it informed what they believe was the real story of why Kawhi Leonard didn't make the All-Star Game…” (Pablo Torre, 26:21)

6. Justice, Journalism, and Power in Sports

[30:40 – 34:48]

• Dan and Pablo discuss whether the NBA or sports world will hold powerful actors to account, both for league tampering and criminal injustices:
  • “The incentive structure of the NBA is so deeply public relations driven ... it’s not about the truth, it’s about how much people care and make a stink about it.” (Pablo Torre, 31:52)

7. NASCAR’s Denny Hamlin: Grief and Resilience

[38:03 – 41:34]

• Discussion shifts to Denny Hamlin’s tragic loss of his father in a house fire, lingering grief, shoulder injury, and his struggle to return to racing.
  • Includes a moving interview clip of Hamlin sharing his grief and difficulties in getting back to work.
  • “You’ve got to think that house is haunted ... you have to get out of that house. You gotta burn down everything that’s in there and get the hell out of that house.” (Dan Le Batard, 41:41)

8. Patriotism in Sports & Tom Brady Critique

[41:34 – End]

• The hosts debate Vince Wilfork’s anger at Tom Brady’s reluctance to officially back the Patriots in the Super Bowl:
  • “That's bull crap, Tom ... If you’re a patriot for life, you know what it is. Don’t give me that political bull crap.” (Dan Le Batard quoting Vince Wilfork, 43:13)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the absurdity of wrongful convictions:
  • “In fact, the actual killer ... pled guilty and is now out. Out of prison ... despite the fact that junk science, which has since been outlawed, was the reason he was put there in the first place.” (Pablo Torre, 07:36)
• On sports as survival:
  • “Sports is a way of expressing that he still belongs to society … the Super Bowl is a clinic in that.” (Pablo Torre, 18:17)
• On prison glass dap:
  • “That’s the greatest dap I’ve ever given through prison glass with Charles Flores.” (Pablo Torre, 21:56)
• On the challenge of effecting systemic change:
  • "All I can do is tell people what’s up … that’s the whack-a-mole I’ve been playing.” (Pablo Torre, 07:36)
• On NBA power structures:
  • “The boss here is not Adam Silver. The boss here are the richest people in the sport. And so Steve Ballmer ... has more money than everybody else combined in the ownership group.” (Pablo Torre, 33:15)
• On resilience amidst loss (Denny Hamlin):
  • “You’ve got to think that house is haunted…when I mentioned Vince Wilfork, because it is rare … where something has happened to somebody and I’m like, oh my god, how do you cope?” (Dan Le Batard, 41:41)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 02:31 – Whack-a-Mole, the “meow” index card, and producer showmanship
• 05:58 – Introduction to Pablo Torre’s investigation of Charles Don Flores
• 09:27 – Flores’ life, Cowboys fandom, and emotional regulation in solitary
• 12:47 – The hypnosis detail and invalidated “junk science” conviction
• 20:11 – Flores' near-execution and call to action for petition
• 21:56 – The prison glass dap and show humor
• 24:12 – Breaking NBA trade news, show banter, and conspiracy theories
• 26:21 – Clippers’ cap circumvention and Adam Silver’s intervention
• 30:40 – Justice, accountability, and PR in sports leagues
• 38:03 – Denny Hamlin’s personal tragedy and NASCAR industry
• 41:34 – Vince Wilfork/ Tom Brady patriotism debate

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Final Thoughts & Closing Remarks

The hour balances deeply reported, emotional journalism with the usual Le Batard Show wit and chaos. The plight of Charles Don Flores is given primacy, underscoring the podcasting possibilities for advocacy and awareness. Pablo Torre’s contribution is celebrated—both for his reporting and his ability to merge sports, justice, and humanity. The crew continues to elevate the story by urging listeners to sign the petition and spread the word, while never losing sight of humor, camaraderie, and the enduring power of sports to make even the most isolated among us feel connected.

Action link emphasized by Pablo Torre:
actionnetwork.org/petitions/charles (21:28, 34:53)

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For more: Listen to Pablo Torre’s reporting on “Pablo Torre Finds Out.”

Transcript

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Pablo Torre]

And breathe a Sorry.

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[Dan Le Batard]

The Dan Levatar show with the Stu Guts Podcast. Today at 2pm we're the ones who are gonna bleep around, but Pablo Torre is the one who finds out we're gonna continue our super bowl cover starting in the obvious place East Texas and Death Row is where we're about to head.

[Bombas Sponsor]

Death Row Records.

[Dan Le Batard]

That is not in East Texas. Suge Knight is in California. Actually, I don't know the penal system that Sugar is in. No, that is not who Pablo is visiting on Death Row. We'll get to that in just a second, but I want to keep telling people 2pm today we're going to watch as the Bucks trade for Ja Morant and Jonathan Zaslow gets crushed because Ja Morant ends up being the running mate to yan us onto tacompo in Milwaukee.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Dan 3:01pm 301 or I'm out of here.

[Dan Le Batard]

You're going to storm out there. Sometimes they trickle in after the 3pm deadline. We don't know whether it'll be certainty. I don't know what to expect. But we're going to be live 2 o' clock to 4 o', clock, talking about the trade deadline. But when I tell you guys that this entire outfit is playing Whack a Mole that they're making me, and I know the reference is being lost on some of you, you don't know what Whack a Mole is, but it's an old game. You'd go with a mallet and there would be moles that would pop up out of, you know, out of the. I don't know, the console.

[Stu Guts]

Most boring game at an arcade.

[Dan Le Batard]

You. You'd hit them with a mallet. Yeah, but it. But it's. You guys put it on. The poll at Le Batard show is Whack a Mole an arcade classic. But to Paul, to my point, I have in front of me a piece of an index card that has been handed to me by the producers.

[Mike Ryan]

I just talked to the young people in the bullpen. I'm like, you young people know what Whack a Mole is. And three people said the exact same sentence at the exact same time. Absolutely. I don't know what he is doing.

[Dan Le Batard]

I understand that I'm an old man chasing people off my lawn. There's this new word groceries with references that nobody understands. And I don't think Whack a Mole is an arcade classic. But I want to explain to people metaphorically what it is that I'm doing. You guys are the moles. I'm the one with. With the mallet. And my example is right in front of me. I'm going to have Jonathan Zaslow or Jonathan Zack Low, as we're going to call him in a few hours, read to you what is on the piece of paper that has been handed to me by producers who give me information to keep me maximum informed. Zaslow, do not read the words. Okay, on here. That are the only sports words. Just tell people what's on this piece of paper that I've been handed. That is my information center. All over the piece of paper. How many words are on this piece of paper? How many words?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

It's got to be a couple hundred.

[Dan Le Batard]

Okay? How many of the words are sports related?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

None.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't think it's none. Zaslo, look at that sheet closely. There are words.

[Pablo Torre]

Whoa.

[Dan Le Batard]

There are words on that sheet. Zaslo. That are sports related that you're not seeing.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

You told me not to read the sports.

[Dan Le Batard]

I know. How many words are there on the sheet that are sports related to. Thank you, Zaslo. Here we go. How many words are. Let's try this again. Zaslo, for the last time, how many words are on the sheet that I have no idea. How much is writing on this? A couple hundred. How many of the words are sports related to? I'll get damage check in here. What is on that piece of paper, Zaslow?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Bullshit words.

[Dan Le Batard]

Give me the piece of paper back, Zasla. Oh, he's done what? You know what?

[Stu Guts]

Backwards.

[Dan Le Batard]

In fact. In fact. In fact, kind of exercise is that minor penalty.

[Pablo Torre]

Two minutes for boring.

[Dan Le Batard]

What's cold?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Me.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yes, you. Yes, you. Get out of here. This is the piece of paper I have been handed. It is not that hard to describe. It isn't hundreds of time. The word meow meow, a cat meow is written on a piece of paper. And it also says hero or kaminga.

[Pablo Torre]

That was me. That was mine.

[Dan Le Batard]

Successful bit we did. All right, let's talk about Death Row. Pablo Torre is with us. Pablo Torre finds out is the podcast. He continues to do extraordinary work. And you guys would love this, because this was in the modern age and it needs to be protected. Classic 60 minutes type of journalistic reporting, where the television reporter shows you that he's driving through the middle of Bumble bleep, trying to get to an outpost that is super secluded and empty to meet the death row inmate.

[Mike Ryan]

We all knew that was going to go poorly back.

[Stu Guts]

Right away, I was like, oh, God, he wants Zaz to say something.

[Dan Le Batard]

There's a. There's a index card that's got the word meow being written on it. Like, I'm trying to do something live in front of. Like, you were right. It's a bit. It's a bit of a tightrope, right? It's live in front of people. I'm trying to make it entertaining. It's on him. And there was a great concept. Why am I being handed a piece of paper that has the word meow written on it? Hundreds of times, Pablo, you have gone out to East Texas, and you want to tell the story of Charles Don Flores. And I guess I need to be careful with some of my language here, but is he guilty of what he's accused of?

[Pablo Torre]

Uh, hi, guys. No. Charles Flores is a man who I'm happy to talk to you about. Right, Meow. Because he is, of course, a character that we've introduced on our show before, sent a correspondent to death row to talk to Charles. I went there myself in our attempt, by the way. I don't know what you guys are doing there with the index cards. We are trying to, like, replace 60 Minutes, though, in New York using Dan's money. And, yeah, I rented a Jeep. I drove to death row. And the point is, this guy was wrongfully convicted in ways that are crazy. And I on palpatora finds out am of course, used to like my own version of whack. A mole billionaire pops up. I try to report on it. Does anything happen? As if I have the control of that? All I can do is tell people what's up in this. Yes, exactly. Replace John Moran and Giannis with the faces of the richest people in America. And in this case, the Texas criminal justice system. The state of Texas. Because Charles Don Flores, okay, was convicted and sentenced to death because an eyewitness was hypnotized by the police and identified him a year after she had described two men, two suspects who looked nothing like him. There's never been any physical evidence tying him to the scene. Charles Don Flores has maintained his innocence the entire time. And in fact, the actual killer. This was a robbery and a murder in Texas. The actual gun and the actual killer pled guilty and is now out. Out of prison. He was released on parole 10 years ago. And Charles Don Flores remains, despite the fact that junk science, which has since been outlawed, by the way, in Texas, was the reason he was put there in the first place. It's an unbelievably absurd story. We're trying to petition for his freedom. Will it work? I don't care. I just want to try. And that's the whack a mole that I've been playing.

[Dan Le Batard]

You have made him your Cowboys correspondent. Can you explain to people the life he's presently l living while apparently wrongly convicted? Because I cannot think of a lot of worse ways to live than 23 hours a day in solitary confinement with a crime you haven't committed.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, it's one of the more remarkable, just, like, interactions I've had him explaining that, like, the one thing he's learned how to control are his emotions. And it's a lesson, Dan, I know that you and I have talked about, like, what can control? What can any of us control in this life? It's, like, how we respond to things, which is, like, the hardest thing to do. And this Guy has spent 26 years learning to do that. And so he doesn't indulge in anger at the fact that the gunman Richard Childs is now out and free while he is remaining in prison despite being wrongfully convicted. What he's doing is he is finding ways to cope with his fate, and his execution date is looming. And he is also using his powers of emotional restraint to care deeply about the Dallas Cowboys. Like, he's the sort of fan that not only is a really great hang in terms of, like, he's very well versed in how the Cowboys have been doing. He watches the games through little cracks in his solitary confinement cell. There's a TV over there. He's like the faith based program. There's a 50 inch TV off in the hallway. You can sort of see it through a crack as he sits on a stack of legal papers. What he is doing is also, like, prioritizing draft picks. That's the kind of true fan he is. The dude on death row is saying, we need to play for the future. He was glad the Giants beat the Cowboys on January 4th because they got draft picks because of it. Better picks because of it. And he has, yeah, he has takes. He has takes that are future oriented, even though he's the last person you'd imagine, would, would, and should care about the future.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I have a lot of questions, Pablo, but first, you know, for someone who is in their cell for 23 hours a day and has been incarcerated, possibly wrongly incarcerated for 26 years, and he gets to do this with you, has he expressed to you, like, gratitude, you know, for this new thing that he has in his life now?

[Dan Le Batard]

By the way, Zaz, he has only an hour of the day to himself. And he spends it with Pablo. He spends it with Pab Pablo, at least in part because of that gratitude.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. He is not only, like. I think the gratitude is. Is certainly there. And we've been like, our show, we. We send him e messages. You can email, they call it E messages. There's a whole, like, payment plan system with people on death row in Texas. And he's been more than grateful. The thing that he expresses, though, is that this is a story that the state of Texas doesn't want you to hear. They don't want to hear it from him. Like, he is appealed numerous times when I say that. And again, there's a video in this episode, okay. Of the police hypnotizing the eyewitness who is the only person to tie him to this crime. You actually, it's remarkable to see the video. And you.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's.

[Pablo Torre]

It's as if from one of these like two on the nose movies in which someone is, you know, practicing. You know, you're getting sleepy. Like, that's how they did this shit. And so Charles has appealed. This very practice has been outlawed in Texas. The issue with his case is that it did not retroactively apply. So everybody knows you shouldn't be able to use this in a criminal trial anymore. But because it happened before the law was passed, and the law was passed in part because of his case, he cannot benefit from it. And so that's why we're trying to get the word out. That's why I'm like forcing you guys to hear about this and hang out with me also is because there's a petition. There's a petition you can sign. I'm going to pull it up. It's on our Twitter account, obviously. It's tagged in the YouTube channel. The petition is action network.org petitions Charles all we can really do, if you feel helpless playing this version of Whack a Mole is just register to the state of Texas. And for anybody who cares to see that we hear his story. It's the only job of journalism on some level is like communicate stories that people don't otherwise want you to know about. And Charles, Don Flores is a guy who we really need people to know about.

[Stu Guts]

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[Pablo Torre]

Don Lebatard Pablo leads all of podcasting in reading while smiling. If you listen to ESPN Daily, he sounds like he's having the time of his life.

[Dan Le Batard]

Stugats coming up next.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm going to tell you, the Savannah bananas are changing.

[Dan Le Batard]

How do you know I'm Savannah Bananas?

[Stu Guts]

How do you know I'm smiling?

[Mike Ryan]

That's how I found my vocal range. Sometimes I just say, savannah Bananas.

[Dan Le Batard]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the stugats.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

So, Pablo, I mean, I understand obviously the court system, you're convicted by a jury of your peers and that's the way it goes. But like you're talking about here, if the only evidence is this person who was hypnotized and said it was him, even though he doesn't match his description, a lot of times it's in these cases, like, won't the judge say, yeah, I hear you're, you know, the jury, you're convicting him. But there was no evidence here. There was no credible evidence. And the judge will render their decision. Like, why did the judge do something like that?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I mean, you're asking logical questions that I've also asked of how the justice system in the state of Texas works. Something that's interesting about how he was convicted is that the hypnosis happened a year after his arrest. Right. It happened a year after. Excuse me. The witness was interviewed. And so she names two tall white guys with long dark hair and Charles Flores, who you've seen on this screen, who is a heavyset Hispanic man, has never resembled a tall white guy with long dark hair. And so what happened was the meet the news, right? The. The local television stations, the press in Texas, they put his face all over the news. And so by the time this woman who gets hypnotized by the police is being asked, do you recall this guy? It happens under circumstances that, again, have been outlawed since by the state. And so the appeals process, as you're asking good questions, what I can tell you about the most recent step, because there's been a whole roller coaster which we outline in the story, which is infuriating and fascinating as a window into all of this, the most recent appeal, there was what's called, like, a postage stamp dismissal, as in, they don't know what the state of Texas has even acknowledged or read. They just were summarily dismissed as an appeal. And so tomorrow, the other episode, reason I'm doing this episode is that tomorrow, Charles's lawyer is appealing to the Supreme Court. And they are not optimistic because the Supreme Court, as you can imagine, is. Is overwhelmed in lots of other ways. But we're, we're in. We're beyond Hail Mary time now as we watch Charles, like, walk into the booth where, yeah, he's had the only real, like, human interaction for 26 years. One hour at a time. He says he gets a visitor, you know, every couple months. And this place is crazy. Dude, look at the, look at the decorations here, right? There's, there's, there's Star wars murals, there's Sonic the Hedgehog. There's Cookie Monster. This is where, like, families go to meet people on death row. Except this guy Charles, he has no family anymore. His family actually is, like, what he considers his community of fellow sports fans, Cowboys fans. And he says that sports is a way of expressing that he still belongs to society. And that is, I mean, truly, the super bowl is a clinic in that it's the power of what sports are. It makes a guy like that feel that way.

[Dan Le Batard]

This story is infuriating. The details are all in. Pablo Torre finds out. I urge you to check it out. Out. And Pablo, tell the people again, if you would, how it is. They can help if they are properly outraged because this story requires and needs more attention. He. I don't know if you said it or not. He was five days away from being executed.

[Pablo Torre]

All right, dude. Oh, my God. We tell the most affecting scene in this whole thing as we put on the screen here, the URL actionnetwork.org petitions/charles is that Charles Flores was five days away from execution and was forced to grapple with, like, what that actually means. And he had never talked about this before with us. You know, we never really wanted to fully break the seal on contemplating what it's like when the state kills you. Okay. And the. The. The. The experience of him being given this date. It's five days away. His mom visits him. And the way he finds out that he's gotten a stay of execution was over this radio that he has in prison, on death row in the Polonsky unit where I was. And we found the tape of that. And the idea that this is a movie, I often make that comparison. It feels cinematic. This is beyond that. It is life and death. And so he tasted what it's like to have this glimpse of freedom. It has since then been stripped again from him because his appeal was denied. And now we're trying to make it so that the story is not over yet. Even though the state of Texas wants it very much. It seems to be over.

[Dan Le Batard]

Jeremy, I have accused you of being a theater kid and you get mad and you say that that is derisive when he uses the word cinematic here. He's not wrong in this story being cinematic. But I want to show all you guys. And forgiveness. Audio audience, you're not going to see this, but I want to show all you guys how enjoyable Pablo finds the cinema. Look at this. Do you think that Pablo knows that he nailed it when he did this right here, when he did the fist bump.

[Pablo Torre]

That's the greatest dap I've ever given through. Through Prison Glass with Charles Flores. Yeah, I felt pretty good about that. As you should. You know how you hear it? Incredible. You guys know when you get a good dap and you can hear it echo sometimes? Yeah, I would say that. Yeah. That resounding. Like down a hallway, sort of. You can feel it on the Richter scale. No, when you hear. That's kind of what that felt like.

[Dan Le Batard]

Put it on the poll at Lebatard show. Is Prison Glass dap the best of all the daps? Because he's like. Pablo was thrilled. He was. I can see. Let's show this again. I can see the smile on the back of Pablo's head as he sees and feels the genuine happiness of Charles. Don Flores is about to give me aggressive, meaningful, and grateful prison dab. You can see Pablo. Can you see it as on the back of his head? Meow. Can you see it? Meow.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

It's good. It's not as good as the dap in Midnight Express. You know about that expressed app?

[Pablo Torre]

What was that? What was the Bayonet Express?

[Dan Le Batard]

That Turkish Prison. Is it Turkish Prison Tap?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Yep.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, I see. I had. I've had some bad. I've had some bad dap in my life. I'm. I'm. I'll also be journalistically transparent about that. I once jumped on a couch to dap up Magic Johnson and it looked like Tom Cruise on Oprah's couch. I looked like an insane person. And Cortez got that on video. And thankfully I did not queue it up in time for you guys to have it, so you won't be able to play it. But it's bad. I've had that made up for it. That made up for all the bad dap I've had in my life. And Dan, you're a bad dap haver yourself. Why is Dan judging dap? You guys have the video of. Of Dan. Was it Josh Norman?

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, just getting wound up. No, just stop. Stop. Just shut up.

[Pablo Torre]

No, no.

[Dan Le Batard]

Let him toss the video without any heads up. We do this all the time. What's wrong? I'm so mad at Pablo and Zaz. Right? Meow. So mad. Midnight Express. The two of them. The two of them. He's just doing boob. He's. He's doing boob work on Midnight Express in a Turkish prison. A movie from 30 years ago. Says the guy who referenced Ichabod Crane a couple of days ago.

[Mike Ryan]

Pablo seemingly out of nowhere.

[Pablo Torre]

Nowhere. NBA trade. The Los Angeles Lakers have traded the expiring contract of Gabe Vincent and a second round pick to the Atlanta Hawks in exchange for Luke Canard.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, wait a minute. The real breaking news would be that Wendy is saying the T. Wolves are out on Giannis. That leaves Miami as the only team chasing him like that.

[Mike Ryan]

When did we get that? Did that just break?

[Dan Le Batard]

Yes, a wire. Yeah, well, Wendy just said it. Wendy says they're out. You guys don't have this.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm leaving. Where did he.

[Dan Le Batard]

You guys don't have have this. Why do I have this? And the paper that says meow all over it and Kaminga are hero on it. Like why is it I have information that you guys don't have? Wendy is saying that, that, that the Miami. This is the report. Okay? He said it on first take. And what you have is quote, Minnesota and Golden State think they're getting. They aren't getting Giannis today. The Miami Heat are still out there, last I heard, trying to make moves to improve their offer to Milwaukee. That said, the Heat can make a better offer in the summ teams believe it's most likely that Giannis stays put. But Miami is still there. But I will miss the video. I will never put anything past Andy Ellisberg and the aggression of Pat Riley. So keep an eye on with Miami. And that is not dap. That's just me hugging Josh, bringing him in.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Oh no.

[Stu Guts]

The pulled it's like the Dallas was.

[Pablo Torre]

So mismanaged that you ended up grinding.

[Stu Guts]

Whenever you. Whenever you hug someone and you take two steps backwards. That's never good.

[Pablo Torre]

Around the neck too is tough hurts.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

You should be embarrassed.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. How is he in the crook of your elbow? How did that happen?

[Dan Le Batard]

The story involving the Clippers that you have been at the center of. Did you hear any of the conspiracy theories involving James Harden and the idea that they're blowing up the whole thing because of knowing what's coming down the road because of all your reporting and all your busybody finding out.

[Pablo Torre]

I've been very busy body I have heard.

[Mike Ryan]

Look at this.

[Pablo Torre]

Josh Norman looking incredibly confused behind sunglasses. I have been seeing and hearing all of the rumors. I can tell you that on the scale of here's some stuff that's true to hear some stuff that's not stuff that's true. NBA coaches actively. I mean I've talked to multiple NBA head coaches who find that the Clippers may escape punishment by the NBA to be so egregious that it informed what they believe was the real story of why Kawhi Leonard didn't make the All Star Game as voted in by the coaches. So when Adam Silver follows up and he appoints him as the commissioner has the power to do unilaterally appoints Kawhi to the game. That was also a thing that blew up my phone and lots of people laughed about how perfect it is that Adam Silver would come and rescue Kawhi Leonard from the accountability exerted by these coaches.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

And that's the guy you think is going to punish Kawhi? Like that's the guy.

[Pablo Torre]

Come on. That's, that's, that's, that's. That is a story that we continue to report on. So that's over here. That's like stuff that happened. Yes. The stuff that didn't. That feels less obvious to me. I can't tell you why James Harden wanted to pull the parachute cord. It's hard to isolate the variable of like, ah, he sees a punishment coming because again, that's how I describe the punishment and the current forecast of it. And also because James Harden has just done this over and over again. Right. And so the Clippers generally, though, where is, where are the Clippers in this? In the middle of that, I think truth spectrum is the idea that the Clippers are actively considering and pursuing life after Kawhi Leonard. This whole regime has been disastrous, which is also why it's funny that Lawrence Frank, the president of basketball, just got a four year extension which was announced in December when they were 6 and 21 by the way, and has since been finalized. It's very funny that that guy stays on for four more years to run this disastrous regime as a basketball matter because they are looking for the post Kawhi era. That's Darius Garland coming in. And from the post Kawhi perspective, you know, Zubots is on the team. Zubot seems to be also actively being mentioned in trade negotiations. So all of this stuff is like what happens after we undo the Paul George, Kawhi Leonard era. PG's gone. Kawhi is still there. Everybody else, though, Chris Paul, James Harden, Zubots, it seems, yeah, they're looking past it because there's not anything left for them to gain. So that's where I think the state of the union is.

[Mike Ryan]

Howdy, folks. Mike Ryan here. Quick break to talk to you about one of our show's longest, most tenured and greatest partners, Miller Light. I love this product because so many moments were made legendary by having Miller Lite there. And it's not just the good times. Sometimes you and your pals are sad because a game didn't go your way and you take a sip of Miller Lite and you still recognize. Darn, this tastes good. And I made the right call. And that, that sound of cracking open that beautiful white can, it does make me feel better. Thank you. Miller Lite. So many legendary moments start with a Miller Lite. Miller Lite just fits pretty much any occasion. Clean finish, refreshing, brewed for taste with simple ingredients like malted barley. And at 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces, it never weighs you down. It's the taste that beer lovers have trusted for over 50 years. The original light beer since 1975 and still iconic today. Legendary moments start with Miller Lite. Great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[Stu Guts]

Listen up, folks. It's game day, and you already know what that means. The noise, the jerseys, the group chats, going crazy. I'm telling you, no game day is complete without the world's number one vodka. You know that that is Smirnoff. We're talking easy cocktail, tons of flavors, perfect for every kind of fan over 21. Whether you're riding with your squad, watching from home, or celebrating like your team already won the first quarter, Smirnoff is the official vodka partner of the NFL. It's award winning, and it's been bringing people together since 1864, which is basically forever. Smirnoff does game days. Big energy, big moments, big wins. Hopefully grab a bottle of Smirnoff at your local retailer and head to smirnoff.com to find a cocktail recipe perfect for game day. Please drink responsibly. Smirnoff, number 21 vodka, distilled from grain 40 alcohol by volume. The Smirnoff Company, New York, New York. Please don't share with anyone under legal drinking age. Now let's get back to arguing about refs.

[Dan Le Batard]

Don LeBatard, I think I would have.

[Pablo Torre]

Been on his side. I would have looked at you like.

[Dan Le Batard]

What did you say?

[Stu Guts]

I'm telling you, me and my friend, the rest of the way home, all we kept saying was, I ain't cheating stugats.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's like, why did you got your ass? I think he got your ass.

[Pablo Torre]

I got his way. Chris. Chris won this one for sure. Not pathetic. Jeremy, it was great.

[Dan Le Batard]

DCC Levatar show with the stugats. Last thing on this subject and last thing for our time with you. I cannot believe that Tony and Zaz and a whole lot of other people are looking at all of the reporting that you have done, exhausting on that story. And all of them are saying, yeah, the league's not gonna do anything. Nothing's gonna happen there. I can't believe that something could be this kind of egregious. And nothing's gonna happen. Especially because I know at least a couple of the owners and a couple of minority owners who are really mad about this. Like, they're mad at how flagrant this is. And I just don't believe that they would allow for this to go unpunished. What do you think's gonna happen?

[Pablo Torre]

I think that the NBA. Oh, God, that's me dapping up. And there's Tom Thibodeau, by the way, in the right hand corner. That's. That's the dab on the couch. What I think is going to happen with the NBA is subject to our ongoing investigation. What I will tell you is that the incentive structure of the NBA is so deeply public relations driven, which is to say a bit of the through line and all the stuff that I report on my show is we try to bring accountability through journalism to very rich and powerful people and or governments. And the question of what they have to do in response is very often subject not to what the truth is, it's to how much people out there care about it and make a stink about it and actually discuss it. And so when, Dan, you say that you've talked to ownership groups, members of ownership groups who express that this is absurd and beyond the pale, even when you consider that there is various cap circumvention in small ways probably happening throughout the league. Yes, I've also heard this from other NBA owners. I've heard it from NBA head coaches, I've heard it from other NBA general managers. Everybody in the league behind the scenes knows what's happening. I will also say that it's very, of course, understandable that these people want to remain anonymous because they know that the league's whole incentive here is to stamp out dissent when it comes to calling out the boss. And the boss here is not Adam Silver. The boss here are the richest people in the sport. And so Steve Ballmer, who is the richest man in sports who can buy the entirety of the NBA if he wanted to. He has more money than everybody else combined in the ownership group.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

That'd be a move.

[Pablo Torre]

Question of will they punish? Will they punish? I think you look at, you look at these incentives and you say, does the NBA have to? And that's where we are continuing to investigate is what's the process and what's the forecast based on the evidence that we're continuing to gather.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I mean, Pablo had a good dap, Dan, but it was better than Jim Carrey's prison dap. Come on, Come on, Dan. Jim Carrey, Cable Guy, Midnight Express.

[Dan Le Batard]

The reporting he's doing is extraordinary. Pablo Torre finds out there is nothing in sports podcasting or podcasting in general quite like it. He goes out to death row. This is the second time that Pablo Torre finds out, is advocating on behalf of what appears to be a fairly obvious injustice. I urge you to both check it out and do the petition so that more word gets out because he's tackling obviously complicated subject matter and doing it in the most cliche way possible right off the top, where he's driving through what is clearly bumble bleep. Nowhere. Like. And the camera's with him. He's just casually driving through tumbleweed. And he's like, look, I'm a reporter, but I go out there and get.

[Pablo Torre]

Rented a Jeep, too.

[Dan Le Batard]

I go out there.

[Pablo Torre]

I was gonna say, I got. I got two. I got two.

[Mike Ryan]

Two.

[Pablo Torre]

Two things. Two things. Number one, actionnetwork.org petitions Charles, please sign it. Very sincerely. It's all we can do. That's the first thing. The second thing is, thank you, Dan, for helping me pay for this rented Jeep.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah. It's just. Look at this. Look how cliche this is. Look, there's. There he is. His hands on the stairs. Yes. Driving perfectly through nowhere to get to nowhere. And death row of the road. The literal end of the road for a man who shouldn't be at the end of the road. Charles Dawn Flores. That awful. That life looks awful. Obviously, 23 hours a day in confinement when you're not guilty of something.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm surprised. It's what I'm surprised. 10 and 2.

[Mike Ryan]

You're a new York City guy.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't see you televised. That wasn't bad.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm usually driving with my knees. I'll be honest.

[Mike Ryan]

At what point in the journey did you tell the camera guy, hey, get out of the car, and then I'll drive by me turning this corner.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. The chauffeur saying, like, can I. Can I leave?

[Dan Le Batard]

Meow.

[Pablo Torre]

Can I go?

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, get out of here and get out of here.

[Mike Ryan]

How far did you drive past your cameraman before you stopped and allowed him to walk to you because you were not going to drive back to pick him up?

[Pablo Torre]

Stop breaking the fourth wall, for the love of God. You have one job. Make me the new 60 Minutes. And you're really blowing it for me, so thank you. You.

[Dan Le Batard]

Pablo Torre finds out is the podcast. He really is doing special work and we thank him for it. It needs to get more attention. You know what else needs to get more attention? This super bowl week. We're not covering enough. Denny Hamlin. We are not covering this enough. His life is clearly haunted. Yeah. Wait a minute. You're not speaking as my voice. Stories in sports that make you feel something. You are not speaking. Look, I. Did you find out what happened to him? I don't want to keep arguing with my inner monologue. You're speaking as yourself instead. Me, you're. Stop speaking. It got even sadder. I know. Listen to this. Listen to this. Because it's even. No, it's. It's on. He's his. This house is Haunted this house that Denny Hamlin. We've played for you last week. Okay? The sound of a broken. Denny Hamlin talking about losing his dad in a fire and trying to get back track. He's fighting with nascar. He's trying to win. He keeps losing all things in heartbreaking ways. Okay. And this latest detail where he's talking. Let's just let. Before I give the latest detail, let's just listen to Denny Hamlin. Clearly, like, hollowed out. Okay? These NASCAR guys are very, very good at selling their sport. They all know that they kind of got to be salesmen. They all, in front of the cameras, do special things because they have gratitude about their sport and they understand that they need to be out selling it. Okay, so Hamlin's doing this interview, but he doesn't really want to do this interview. And the heartbreak is all over him as he talks about it, his face and his answers. Because he's not in sales mode here. He's talking about, I gotta come back and I gotta talk about the really awful shit. So here he's already haunted here. Listen to this.

[Interviewer]

How are you doing?

[Denny Hamlin]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

To be expected to look like your mom is doing okay.

[Denny Hamlin]

Yeah, she has good days, bad days, but getting better.

[Interviewer]

Did you consider not racing after everything that happened?

[Denny Hamlin]

I mean, I've considered all options. I made a promise to Joe Gives family.

[Interviewer]

Do you think it's gonna be difficult to race?

[Denny Hamlin]

I don't think so. I think that, you know, once I get in the swing of it, it'll actually be good, you know, to. To get back to it. I just. I haven't locked in for the season necessarily quite yet and just.

[Interviewer]

Is there anything you want to say to. So many people have reached out and said things on social media. I'm curious if there is anything you want to tell people or.

[Denny Hamlin]

Well, you know, I try to answer back some. It's impossible to answer back all.

[Mike Ryan]

But.

[Denny Hamlin]

Yeah, it just certainly, you know, the NASCAR family is always been a very tight group and appreciate the, you know, the condolences and the well wishes and everything from everyone. It certainly does mean a lot.

[Interviewer]

Have you had much time to kind of work with the team at all, or have they pretty much given you kind of time to be.

[Denny Hamlin]

Yeah, I mean, today will be my first day back at the shop since November.

[Interviewer]

Probably best to make an old hat. I mean, it'll be pretty much like.

[Dan Le Batard]

You'Re gonna be ready for.

[Denny Hamlin]

I think so. I mean, you know, those guys have been working and preparing and whatnot. I'll be obviously a Little bit behind, but I feel like I can catch up pretty quickly.

[Dan Le Batard]

So he's grieving, obviously, because he's lost his father and is taking care of a mother that's not only grieving, but that house fire also injured her. And then as he comes back, he's in the rubble of the house, falls down and hurts his shoulder.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, a surgically repaired shoulder. That interview from a couple of days ago was with Bob Pockrass. Denny Hamlin spoke to assembled media yesterday. It was the formal kickoff to NASCAR season, the cookout clash at Bowman Gray. So the media had an opportunity to speak with Denny Hamlin. And he revealed he retored his surgically repaired shoulder, falling in the rubble of his parents home, the home that caught fire and took his already terminally ill father away and seriously injured his mother.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

It was the worst hour. Just doing things that are making me upset. Story after story making me upset. Somebody say something nice. Terrible. Feel terrible.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, sorry. That said, there's no good side to this story just yet.

[Dan Le Batard]

How about a picture of me looking enormous?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Yeah, that's always funny.

[Dan Le Batard]

There you go.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

Makes you feel good.

[Dan Le Batard]

That softens it up. Okay, I'll take it back to the darkness again because this story reminds me of Vince Wilfort. Because I remember when Vince Wilfort was in college, he lost his parents. Lost both of them. Bang, bang. At a formative age, right? Wanted to quit football at the time. At a formative age, through this and trying to continue to work. Like, think about how haunted you have to feel if you're searching through the rubble of your parents burned down house. You're taking care of your mother who's broken. Cause you just lost your father in that house. And as you're searching through the rubble, you can't actually get back to work because you fall down in the rubble and injure your shoulder.

[Mike Ryan]

I can't even imagine the look on his face, the thoughts going through his head as he's looking up to the sky.

[Dan Le Batard]

You got to think that house is haunted. Like, you have to believe that that house is haunted. And you have to get out of that house. You gotta burn it down again. Like, get burned down everything that's in there and get the hell out of that house. When I mentioned Vince Wilfork, though, because it is, I just remember it has been rare in my history covering sports in this market where something has happened to somebody and I'm like, oh my God, how do you cope and deal with losing both of your parents while you're at school, independent of each other? It's not even at the. The same time. Just months apart, and both of them are surprised. But Vince Wilfork is mad. I would not want that human being mad at me. He's mad at Tom Brady, Zazlow, because Tom Brady has not picked the Patriots in the Super Bowl. He's sitting on the fence. He doesn't. He. I don't know whether he's trying to be objective as a broadcaster.

[Pablo Torre]

I think his exact quote is, I.

[Stu Guts]

Have no dog in this fight.

[Mike Ryan]

Crazy.

[Dan Le Batard]

Okay.

[Stu Guts]

Opposite.

[Pablo Torre]

Opposite of what he has.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, but I think that. I think he may be aspiring to some sort of objectivity in his role. Like when Greg Olsen is calling a Carolina Panthers playoff game, as he did. He's supposed to be objective, and nobody was complaining about the fact that he called the game with a lack of objectivity. Here's Will Fork mad at his qb, but Tom hasn't given an opinion, and we're waiting for an opinion from Tom. That's bull crap, Tom.

[Mike Ryan]

Thank you.

[Dan Le Batard]

Thank you.

[Pablo Torre]

Come on.

[Dan Le Batard]

Why won't he get all that political? This ain't political. Yeah. Yeah. It ain't political. What it is. Yeah. Thank you, Vince.

[Jonathan Zaslow]

That's right.

[Dan Le Batard]

Say what it is, what you see. Yep. You want to come back and say, hey, I'm a patriot for life, then you should be rooting for him, man. Look, at the end of the day, if you're a patriot for life, you know what it is. Don't give me that political bull crap. That's just what it is. That's it. If you don't think we're going to win, just pick Seattle then, right? Don't. Don't. Don't straddle the fence. Zaslo Brady is a patriot for life even though he was a Buck. Will Fork is a patriot for life even though he was a Texan. Dwyane Wade is a Heat member for life even though he was a Cav. And a.

[Mike Ryan]

That never happened.

[Pablo Torre]

And a Cav he was talking about.

[Mike Ryan]

No. Never happened.

[Pablo Torre]

No. That's bull.

[Dan Le Batard]

What are your thoughts here, Zaslow?

[Jonathan Zaslow]

I think Brady's full of shit. It's ridiculous.

[Dan Le Batard]

All right, very good.