Hour 1: Perception Is Not Reality

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz – Hour 1: Perception Is Not Reality

Release Date: February 17, 2025

Introduction

In the first hour of this episode titled "Perception Is Not Reality," hosts Dan Le Batard and Stugotz engage in a dynamic discussion with co-hosts Chris Cody, Greg Cote, Billy Gill, and guest Dominique Foxworth. The conversation delves deep into the current state of sports, focusing primarily on the NBA, its All-Star Weekend, player empowerment, and comparisons with other major sports leagues.

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1. The Evolution of the NBA and Player Empowerment

The discussion kicks off with a critical analysis of the NBA's evolution over the past 15 years. The hosts explore how player empowerment has shifted the dynamics within the league, leading to changes in how the sport is perceived and consumed by fans.

• Chris Cody highlights the shift from team discipline to individual player agency:
  "To see that sport's ratings overrun in 15 years by people objecting to the players don't care enough for the coverage of the All Star Game..." ([07:00])

• Billy Gill echoes concerns about player influence:
  "It's annoying how well he [Greg] does every year. He just picks favorites. It's obnoxious." ([03:46])

2. NBA All-Star Weekend: A Mixed Bag

The hosts express disappointment with the recent NBA All-Star Weekend, criticizing its lack of genuine celebration for basketball and instead focusing on gimmicks and controversies.

• Dan Le Batard laments the departure from meaningful sporting celebration:
  "I just think that we're taking this to an extreme with what's going on with the NBA when that product has like the basketball that did happen, they did a bad job in terms of presentation." ([16:03])

• Stugotz remarks on the superficial storylines surrounding the event:
  "But people were like, why is Mr. Beast kind of like a weird swing?..." ([05:00])

3. Comparisons with Other Sports Leagues

A significant portion of the conversation is dedicated to comparing the NBA with other major leagues like MLB, NFL, and NHL. The hosts debate why the NBA garners more drama and player-centric narratives compared to the relative harmony seen in leagues like the NHL.

• Dominique Foxworth points out the different motivations and cultural aspects:
  "Hockey doesn't have the advantage of that. A lot of these guys doing the sport in their second language..." ([21:17])

• Greg Cote emphasizes the structured nature of NHL All-Star Games:
  "There are bad faith aggregators. You have a nation convinced because of some of these aggregate sites like End Wokeness..." ([30:38])

4. The Role of Commissioners and League Leadership

The effectiveness of sports commissioners, particularly Adam Silver of the NBA, is scrutinized. The hosts debate whether Silver has maintained the league's integrity amidst growing player power and changing fan expectations.

• Mr. Beast provides an outsider perspective on Adam Silver’s challenges:
  "They have to do something about this. Well, we're so far beyond the tipping point." ([24:03])

• Chris Cody criticizes the current administration’s inability to adapt:
  "Adam Silver has gone from the top of the game to how do I keep up with the young people?" ([25:25])

5. Player Behavior and Its Impact on the Game

The conversation shifts to specific player behaviors and their influence on the sport's reputation. Topics include LeBron James' changing approach, Kevin Durant's public statements, and historical references to players like Tim Anderson and Oscar Robertson.

• Chris Cody reflects on LeBron's evolution:
  "LeBron shows up for the last game in casual gear because I'll show you my good stuff at the end." ([09:00])

• Oscar Robertson's fictional retort serves as a critical voice against negative player comments:
  "This guy can say this and one guy can say that. The game is the game is what it is." ([22:33])

6. The Future of Sports Media and Fan Engagement

The hosts ponder the future trajectory of sports media, emphasizing the increasing divide between traditional viewership and modern fan engagement influenced by player personalities and social media.

• Dan Le Batard questions the sustainability of current sports coverage:
  "If LeBron's team is down to seven guys instead of eight guys. And then that's like the major storyline..." ([08:02])

• Billy Gill suggests innovative ideas like international tournaments:
  "Epic to watch. What are the four nations for the NBA tournament?" ([20:15])

7. Closing Thoughts: Perception vs. Reality in Sports

Wrapping up the hour, the hosts reiterate the episode's theme: Perception Is Not Reality. They stress the importance of distinguishing between media-driven narratives and the actual state of the sports they love.

• Chris Cody sums up the sentiment:
  "Perception is perception. But what is reality is that the perception being talked about on every sports show in America today..." ([16:21])

• Mr. Beast offers a nuanced view on aligning player interests with league objectives:
  "Ensuring that their interests are aligned with the interests of the league in the way that partners would. And I think the NFL is different..." ([39:46])

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Notable Quotes:

• "Perception is not reality." – Chris Cody ([16:21])
• "LeBron's been running the league for 20 years. I need, like, I sort of need people to understand that Adam Silver's the administrative assistant over there." – Chris Cody ([14:17])
• "They have to do something about this. Well, we're so far beyond the tipping point." – Dominique Foxworth ([24:03])

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Conclusion

This episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz offers a critical examination of modern sports, particularly the NBA's shifting dynamics. Through engaging dialogue and sharp insights, the hosts navigate the complexities of player empowerment, media influence, and league management, urging listeners to look beyond surface-level perceptions to understand the true state of the sports industry.

Transcript

[Dan Le Batard]

You're listening to Giraffkings Network.

[Stugotz]

You know that sound? It's the sound of money hitting your Venmo account. A friend paying you back. Or maybe it's getting cash back from your favorite business when you pay with the Venmo debit card. Or it's realizing you can pay with Venmo at checkout at thousands of brands. Now there are so many more ways to answer the question what's your Venmo? Download Venmo today. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. pursuant to license by MasterCard International Incorporated. DOSH cashback terms apply. You know that sound? It's the sound of money hitting your Venmo account. A friend paying you back. Or maybe it's getting cash back from your favorite business when you pay with the Venmo debit card. Or it's realizing you can pay with Venmo at checkout at thousands of brands. Now there are so many more ways to answer the question what's your Venmo Download Venmo today.

[Chris Cody]

Thanks.

[Stugotz]

The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank N.A. pursuant to license by MasterCard International Incorporated. DOSH cashback terms apply. This is the Dan Levator show with the Stugach podcast.

[Billy Gill]

This episode of the Dan Lepatard show with Stugots is presented by Smirnoff. We do game days. Please drink responsibly. The Smirnoff Company New York, NY Mike.

[Chris Cody]

Roy We've been doing this show a long time with the Cody family and I don't know if you guys have noticed all of the ways that Chris is becoming his father. There are many I previously thought that Billy Gill was the champion dynasty for all times of being on our show and making the joke that the least number of people would get Chris Cody lobbing to end the last segment to his father the name of their brothers fantasy league team. Michael's chickens. Him doing that and making his dad howl and no one else in the room except me understand because I happen to know but give me the names of all of the teams. Give me all of the names of all of the teams you guys confounded with a joke just for each other. Everyone else who has known you for.

[Billy Gill]

20 years, I thought he would keep going with it. That was me like trying to keep the ship going there. Like I'll just throw him something and he'll run with that is you not.

[Chris Cody]

Knowing your father's self involvement. That is you not producing your narcissist father's show very well.

[Greg Cote]

Well, the segment ended with you saying, mike's chicken. Okay?

[Billy Gill]

Oh, it was you laughing at that.

[Chris Cody]

That's how it ended, with a joke. So we're ending a joke that is actively alienating everyone in our audience. That's the closing joke, is just you and your son laughing about something. And I couldn't even stay in character because Billy would have appreciated.

[Billy Gill]

Yet he got it, too.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, people know about the PFPI team.

[Chris Cody]

One of the names.

[Stugotz]

Christie's Ferraris. Everybody knows.

[Chris Cody]

Name the name. The teams. What are the teams?

[Stugotz]

Okay.

[Greg Cote]

Dick's Rough Riders.

[Stugotz]

The champs this year, right?

[Greg Cote]

Yes.

[Stugotz]

Thank you, Dick. Huh?

[Greg Cote]

Mom's Maniacs. Christie's Ferraris. For Ferraris.

[Billy Gill]

Are you looking at a list? Do you not know this off top of your head?

[Greg Cote]

I'm thinking Christie's Ferraris, Mike's chickens, Chris's critters. Tati's llamas. Gracious.

[Dan Le Batard]

She just likes llamas.

[Billy Gill]

Of course, most people go the same letter.

[Greg Cote]

And of course, the legendary Greggs Lobos.

[Stugotz]

Lobos.

[Greg Cote]

Thank you.

[Chris Cody]

We're just gonna let Dick's Rough Riders go?

[Stugotz]

I mean, what do you mean?

[Greg Cote]

What does that mean?

[Chris Cody]

Okay, I guess we are.

[Billy Gill]

It's annoying how well he does every year. He just picks favorites. It's obnoxious.

[Greg Cote]

Then why didn't he win every year?

[Chris Cody]

I want to get to other things, but I also want to recreate. If you would, Greg, I've not told you I want to do this. Would you do me the favor? I don't know if I'm going to be able to execute this correctly, but would you please do me the favor of getting up, coming, and sitting down in the chair? And as you sit down in the chair, do the same thing you just did privately that you said as you sat down with the sound that you sat down with. Can you do all of that again? Just sit down in the chair. I know this is dangerous.

[Greg Cote]

What did I say?

[Chris Cody]

I. What you always say when what you all. You make a sound just like you go Brad when you burp.

[Greg Cote]

Yeah, it sounds like Brad. Some say so. I'm not actually saying no, but you.

[Chris Cody]

Said when you sit down, you sat down. I'm not. Even if he doesn't know what it is you say, ass wipe. As a groaning sound as you sit down, and you don't even know that you do it. You don't even remember. Do for me what it is that you just did. I just showed me what sits in that seat next to me every day.

[Greg Cote]

It's got to be organic. You know, I mean, I'm not really saying ass wipe.

[Chris Cody]

Although you are saying ass wife. You're saying you're clearly sitting down with an old man's groan that also was accompanied by the word ass wife.

[Billy Gill]

They call him flushable. Not organic, by the way.

[Stugotz]

Is this like a dog? Like a dog doesn't say bark, but it sounds like a barker. No, it sounds like a wolf. Maybe he's just making a noise that sounds like. Exactly.

[Chris Cody]

He's been doing it for years. No, he's saying that. He's saying yes.

[Stugotz]

He's not.

[Greg Cote]

I'm saying maybe it's bass wipe. You know, Bass swipe.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, bass swipe.

[Greg Cote]

You know, I mean it's. There's no explaining it. I mean, you know, it's just a peccadillo.

[Stugotz]

Body's a weird thing.

[Greg Cote]

Yeah, it is. But Billy makes, makes a great point. When a dog barks, it's. It's not saying the word bark. It's not saying ruff ruff like R.

[Stugotz]

U, F F. And if the dog's in Spain, it doesn't say ladra.

[Greg Cote]

Yes. Yeah, well put. Dogs speak dog. Yeah, you know, I speak me. That's all it is.

[Chris Cody]

When. And I'm sorry that I started there with any of it. I apologize.

[Stugotz]

And you know it.

[Greg Cote]

And you know it.

[Chris Cody]

I apologize to the audience that my co host is running out of gas.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Could be speaking up, dog.

[Chris Cody]

I want to play the game that ESPN has stolen from Billy. Perk up, perk down with Kendrick Perkins. Wow, they stole that from Billy Gill. But I wanted to ask you, based on the events of the weekend, based on Kevin Durant saying:3 years ago NBA fans don't like anything about the NBA and it's weird. And now he's saying fans complain about anything. The only thing they care about is playoffs, trades, deadlines, freight, free agency and player beef. To me it is very interesting to see what that league has now birthed at the end of the players getting some of this power out from under the discipline of overlord. Coach will tell you what to do and you will play all the games and you will do eight hour practices and you will be tougher and you will just do as the coach says. To see that sport's ratings overrun in 15 years by people objecting to the players don't care enough for the coverage of the All Star Game to be only complaints about the All Star Game, that it's not that as a content vehicle, the All Star Game that used to exist as a place where Magic Johnson would come back from the stigma and the fear of the lack of knowledge around HIV virus. And to turn that, what Magic Johnson and Isaiah Thomas and Michael Jordan once did for the respect of that sport to what it was this weekend, where it's, you know, it's Zoe's summer groove or it's, you know, rock and jock or it's, you might as well play the games on trampolines. Like you're not, you're not doing anything and I'm not.

[Billy Gill]

Now you're talking.

[Chris Cody]

I'm not here. I'm really not. Like, I know this is just the easiest thing in the world to complain about this game, but I also think it's one of the lamest things in sports coverage that we dine on the content of complaining about an exhibition because there's nothing else going on. And the sports machine's got to feed on something this week. Like a bunch of people are taking vacations, but there are a bunch of two hour shows, in this case, three and a half hours. You got to find the things to talk about. And it's a lot easier to complain about Kevin Durant than it is to talk about, he scored 30,000 points the other day and the numbers don't mean anything in that sport. And Kevin Durant is one of the great scorers of all time. And we're going to cover more what he says about this than we covered the 30,000 points because it's easier. I will say, look, sports is plagued by an assortment of topics that it's easier to talk about. Sports content is, that's why we gravitate toward the blame and the criticism. It's why I'm guessing outside of Canada, you will hear more complaints today as people return from work all over your television still complaining about basketball more than celebrating hockey, which is strange, you would say no, but it's, it's what's happened the last 15 years. When you make the basketball players stars, when what you're selling instead of team is stardom, when there are basketball players that are more famous than football players by a lot. Jimmy Butler, you know a lot more about than Justin Jefferson, even though Justin Jefferson is better at what he does than Jimmy Butler is like. And it's because we feed on. Give me drama, give me beef, give me transaction, give me soap opera. And for 15 years this is the end result. LeBron shows up for the last game in casual gear because I'll show you my good stuff at the end. I'll punctuate this Hollywood style. I'm not doing this Silver. The way you want me to. You work for me now. I don't work for you anymore. Like I'm. I'm in charge of the Lakers. I'm your star economy for 20 years. I'll dress how I want, when I want, where I want. You should be happy I'm showing up at your game at all. And he's earned that. No one's ever earned it more. And everyone's going to buck on it, like, because they want to care about the romanticism of these guys. Care as much about you do as you do at the end of this game. He wants to win, but it wasn't that long ago that he cared about winning at the end of the game. Like the All Star game does have those moments when Kobe wants to match up. Like when, when you, when you mourn Kobe Bryant, you're also mourning the death of somebody who at the end of his career was caring in a way that was unreasonable compared to all of his peers. And people loved him for it. Even though he could be a bleep hole. They filed it under competitive winner needed to be doing that. Why? Because you never questioned how much he cared. Not about. You could question a thousand other things, but you never had any questions about whether he cared about basketball more than you did.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Well, if they go with the one on one stuff, it's only going to take one or two people to care deeply about it to raise the compete level for the entire event. Hockey doesn't have that problem because hockey players are different. But they did with their All Star game. But they found a way around it. The players collectively wanted to represent their country and they're showing with their effort how badly they want this concept to work. I'm not really sure what the NBA players want except time off.

[Chris Cody]

Time off.

[Billy Gill]

The most competitive part of NBA All Star weekend was between a baseball player and a football player. Jerry Rice and Barry Bonds at center court. Did you see this? It was intense.

[Jared Payton]

Are we cool?

[Chris Cody]

Are we okay? Yeah, we are okay. All right, well, Barry, let's start with you. We know you're a heavy hitter, but when you look at your group, do you feel like you have home run.

[Mike Ryan]

Plays on this team?

[Chris Cody]

I'm a hometown boy. We just rented him the smack taunt. We borrowed Jerry. He's not from the Bay Area. I'm from the Bay Area. We gonna win. You got a response to that?

[Greg Cote]

What are you talking about? So how many rings do you have?

[Chris Cody]

Wow.

[Greg Cote]

How many rings do you have?

[Chris Cody]

Have two divorce rings.

[Mike Ryan]

Oh, no, he didn't okay, that.

[Dan Le Batard]

That.

[Billy Gill]

Yeah, it took a turn at the end.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Glad we could laugh.

[Dan Le Batard]

I got a new wife now.

[Chris Cody]

I think that one of the things that gets lost in sports coverage today, Cody, because it is loud, because it is argumentative. This part's real simple. People tune into sports to feel something, and joy is among those things. And I can't tell you how disrespectful it feels to the customer that in basketball, more than in other sports, because of tropes, because of stereotypes, because of things that have actually happened, because load management is important, because, honest to God, it is insane what we're putting basketball players and baseball players through physically. Many years ago, we probably should have been doing it kinder to the human body. But the way we did it then makes it so that all of today's players are soft or some version of soft compared to the past. But all of them are also protecting the economy of their bodies, which feeds, like, legitimately feeds families and have been empowered to do so in a way that tatters the construct of discipline that you need in team sports. So a Restrepo is not learning young when nil money's involved. That, yeah, this is business, and it's not about your friendships anymore. Right? Like, it's about dollars, and you're messing with people's economies. And Adam Silver's begging LeBron James to play, and he won't even dress, and it's like, that's where that's. LeBron's been running the league for 20 years. I need, like, I sort of need people to understand that Adam Silver's the administrative assistant over there. They've changed the all star game for LeBron. LeBron wants time off at the halfway point. LeBron wants his players to get more rest and to not have their salaries capped because LeBron is still in that sport, underpaid still.

[Billy Gill]

I need to see who sat out of this flag football game for the NFL because we got to rip them. I need to see MLB All Star Game. Who sat out. Because we don't. Like, we're looking at this NHL thing, which is the outlier. Nobody acts like this during these type of competitions. And we're, like, holding this against LeBron. I don't know. Like, it's just supposed to be fun these weekends. I don't understand, like, why we're getting so serious with LeBron.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's this strange juxtaposition of expectations, right? Like, no one was paying attention to the NHL All Star Game a few years ago, and they came up with an incredible concept that only works for their lead league. Given what the diversity of where people come from is within their league. But we've seen things like the World Baseball Classic work and be the most unbelievable atmospheres ever. Not something that necessarily works for an MLB All Star Game. Because it does. Yeah, but the tradition is still built.

[Dominique Foxworth]

You do a final four of the WBC at the All Star break. I think that.

[Chris Cody]

Sure.

[Dan Le Batard]

But the problem is the same one that NBA has, which is none of. They're not going to be bringing in guys who are going to throw. Sandy Alcantara is not going to throw nine innings in a All Star game in the middle of the season when the trade deadline's coming up. A couple of weeks later, a guy just has been traded to, you know, a new team in, in the NBA. It's going to be a different conversation about what they do. But I just think that it's the, the reason we're. We're going extra hard on the NBA All Star weekend is because we're juxtaposing it with this perfect new moment that was created because of geopolitical things combining with a really awesome job by the NHL. But I just think that were really taking this to an extreme with what's going on with the NBA when that product has like the basketball that did happen, they did a bad job in terms of presentation. The basketball this year was actually superior to what we've seen in years past.

[Greg Cote]

There's an understanding that when the playoffs come, the fans are going to tune in again in the NBA. The, the level of play is going to be intense and passionate. It's just different than the regular. I don't baseball, basketball and even hockey have too many regular season games.

[Chris Cody]

But I have said that, I've said this a number of times. You've heard me say it. Perception is not reality. Perception is perception. But what is reality is that the perception being talked about on every sports show in America today is noticing the differences between both of those All Star Games. One in which you've got people caring so much, the other not at all. And you've just never seen it play out like that before. The same weekend, same time, like this is not something that, that has ever happened before in my, in my recalling of the doing of this.

[Stugotz]

I think the major story I did not watch NBA All Star Weekend. I think that the, the storylines that I have seen was McClung won the dunk contest again, who's a D League guy. You had something with Mr. Beast. I don't know what he was doing but people were upset about that and thought that that was where Damian Lillard lost some contest to a fan and Mr. Beast was there handing out money, and people were like, why is Mr. Beast kind of like a weird swing? Chris Paul decided to try to cheat in a contest, and then he got disqualified for trying to cheat in the contest. And then LeBron decided five minutes before the game that he wasn't going to play. And then there's three teams or two teams, and then they only have a certain number of guys. And now LeBron's team is down to seven guys instead of eight guys. And then that's like the major storyline for someone who didn't consume it. Those were all the storylines I saw, and none of them were like, wow, this is a celebration of the sport. This was such a great weekend. Look at these moments. It was all just kind of like weird things that were going on.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Look, you're talking about things that permeate the sport. When you say Sandy's not going to throw nine innings during a wbc, Sandy's rarely going to throw nine innings during a regular season game. How you do anything is how you do everything. And baseball and basketball have been really on the load management train for several years and the analytics train, and it's kind of altered the sport. The player empowerment is different. Those are two really strong unions compared to what they have in the NHL. Look, the NHL is not puppy dogs and ice cream. The NHL has got a ton of problems. But one thing that you don't have to worry about is ever when it comes to the regular season and when something matters to these players, like Canada USA did, you're going to see a guy like Charlie McAvoy. Who do you want to guess when Matthew Tkachuk's next Panther game is? Matthew Tkachuk is playing in this game. He's told everybody he's playing this game on Thursday night. His next game is Saturday. The Panthers play on Saturday. That is Matthew Tkachuk's All Star break. Charlie McAvoy lays this hit on Conor McDavid. It's just been announced, reported by Elliot Friedman. He's out on Thursday because he has an infection from an injury that he sustained in this game in which he hit Connor McDavid damn near harder than you've ever seen on open ice. So there's just a different way, a different makeup of a hockey player. I'm not saying they're ever going to be hockey players, but we have been in positions in those sports before with their exhibition games where they have cared.

[Dan Le Batard]

How many of you are going to put in this effort on your company retreat? That's I guess the question that I would have right is these All Star weekends are our company retreats. That's all it is. And you have a labor class in the NHL that like Mike mentioned doesn't have the same sort of representation from their players association. They don't make nearly as much money as these players in MLB or in. In the NBA. And so those guys are protecting their money because they at. At the spaces that their leagues are have already earned that in 20 years. If the NHL continues rate that it's going and continues to gain popularity. I can promise you I don't care what we say. These guys are built like there will be guys dipping out of this all star weekend too.

[Chris Cody]

Is is happen to know and with certainty is is where does that rank with.

[Dan Le Batard]

If Matthew tkachuk was making $49 million instead of 11, we'd be having a different conversation. We just would.

[Billy Gill]

We are getting somewhere now with this Four nation competitions. Every sport. NFL. Who we playing against? That would be great.

[Stugotz]

What are the four nations for the NBA tournament?

[Billy Gill]

Epic to watch.

[Stugotz]

What are the four nations for the NBA tournament?

[Billy Gill]

How funny that would be to watch.

[Chris Cody]

Well, whoever it is, Jovic wants to.

[Greg Cote]

Play with Spain, Germany, who else?

[Dan Le Batard]

I'm talking about so just the Olympics.

[Billy Gill]

I'm talking about NFL boys.

[Stugotz]

Okay.

[Chris Cody]

And how does that one NFL is a terrible idea.

[Billy Gill]

It would be amazing.

[Chris Cody]

It would not. It would not be. It would not. No, it would not be amazing like.

[Billy Gill]

The US Imagine the Sweden right tackle trying to block.

[Chris Cody]

No, it would not be good. It would last five minutes. You cannot do this in the end. Okay. Four or five minutes is all you.

[Stugotz]

Oh my God.

[Billy Gill]

That would be great.

[Chris Cody]

I want to play some sound here because Kevin Durant is right that we do like the beef. Right. If you're going to make them stars, if you're going to make them personalities, hockey doesn't really have the advantage of that. Okay. A lot of these guys doing the sport in their second language. A lot of these guys as interviews boring on purpose. Like boring. There's a hockey mentality. They don't do a great job of selling their sport with their talking. Right. It's not a lot of effervescent personalities that you get in hockey.

[Stugotz]

They do their talking on the ice. Dan.

[Chris Cody]

That is correct.

[Greg Cote]

That's another reason why Tkachuk stands out. Matthew Tkachuk, good interview.

[Chris Cody]

That is right. But when you're looking at what it is, that's happening in basketball, and you've got people fighting with each other. And Draymond Green is saying that the game is very boring now that everybody's running around like this is. It's an unusual thing. Right? I. I think Tim Anderson with the White Sox got into a lot of trouble with all of Chicago as like, the only black baseball player on the team or one of the few, by saying baseball's boring when he's playing it.

[Dominique Foxworth]

He's not said that on our show.

[Chris Cody]

That's right. And he got into trouble. And the White Sox never forgave us. And it, like, it harmed Tim Anderson's career.

[Billy Gill]

Baseball never forgave us, actually.

[Chris Cody]

Yes.

[Dominique Foxworth]

All that fight.

[Chris Cody]

Yeah, that, too.

[Dominique Foxworth]

It was never the same after that.

[Stugotz]

He had that moment at Field of Dreams. That was really cool.

[Dominique Foxworth]

That was cool.

[Stugotz]

That was great. But he also kind of sucked.

[Dominique Foxworth]

He got that fight.

[Chris Cody]

That did happen to Tim Anderson. He didn't pan out with the Marlins. And when he got into a fight, we will show that fight that ended what was his career publicly taking that beating. But when Oscar Robertson hears Draymond Green say of the sport that they both ostensibly love, it's boring. Here's his retort.

[Oscar Robertson]

Well, out of. Draymond said so much. You know, who cares what Draymond says? It doesn't mean anything.

[Chris Cody]

You know, people.

[Oscar Robertson]

This is what I mean. You know, I mean, one guy can say this and one guy can say that the game is the game is what it is. People either like the game or they don't. And I think people enjoy the game, especially if their team can win. And you look at the basketball, it might be boring him, because if he's not passing the ball to Curry, what is he doing?

[Chris Cody]

I agree. Triple single.

[Oscar Robertson]

Not to single that out because I think he knows how to play basketball, but he's passed his ball to care more than anyone I've ever seen in basketball.

[Chris Cody]

All right, cut that up.

[Oscar Robertson]

Means a lot.

[Billy Gill]

So, you know, was that Hank Azaria.

[Chris Cody]

Cut that up. The. This sniveling reporter saying his agreement to the big O in a way that was too Slurpee and uncomfortable and just had a lot of drool in it. And just an agreement that was overtly agreeable. Cut that up so that we can just hear the reporter distracting us in the middle of that. Just over. Over loving Oscar Robertson.

[Dominique Foxworth]

I know this is an exhaustive conversation, and it's. Fixing basketball is now approaching. Like, I feel like we've almost been doing it as long as we've been doing the fixing baseball shows but baseball kind of. Kind of finally got around to fixing it, and they had a great dream World Series, and hopefully that tree continues to bear fruit, but they have to do something about this. Well, we're so far beyond the tipping point.

[Chris Cody]

Mike.

[Dominique Foxworth]

On needing. Adam Silver is a disaster.

[Chris Cody]

But Mike, he's a disaster. He's gone from. He has gone. This is what happens, though. He has gone from the best commissioner in sports, most innovative, to getting left behind by the power among the players, at least in part, because how do I stay young? Get me Mr. Beast. How do. Just get me Mr. Beast. Put him on the court, throw money. Look how, look. Have you guys not seen this is. It is hard to evolve. I believe that Kanye west, as one example, has seen that Kendrick Lamar has passed him as the artist. Kanye wishes that he were back when he was at the top of hip hop running the ego game, and now he just stoops to my wife is naked and going pro Hitler.

[Stugotz]

They split up. It may be ex wife soon. Dan.

[Chris Cody]

The reports are conflicting.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, there's a lot of people betting on the fact that they may get divorced before April.

[Dominique Foxworth]

You know, he doesn't have a prenup.

[Stugotz]

That's crazy.

[Dominique Foxworth]

If only there was a song that warned him.

[Stugotz]

What do you get, like. Like, isn't he, like, in a massive debt? If you get. If you. If you get divorced and your. Your spouse is in incredible debt, do you take on half of the debt?

[Dominique Foxworth]

I'm not sure. I mean, he keeps putting out slips that says he's a billionaire again. Yeah, but I don't. I don't really listen to much of what he's saying.

[Chris Cody]

My point is that Adam Silver has gone from the top of the game to how do I keep up with the young people? My employees aren't cooperating.

[Dominique Foxworth]

It didn't necessarily happen quick. But I'm old enough to remember when Adam Silver was called by this show and by others, consensus, the best commissioner in sports right now. Is he. Is he the worst?

[Chris Cody]

Well, is he the worst? But I would say to you, if you're looking at a man, so on. Kaepernick politics came to sports here. When you're talking about we're coming off of the Kendrick Lamar halftime show, the tension that that sport had around its racism births entertainment that's allowed to be at the center of the spectacle and make its own artistic noise. But that's where it's going to be relegated to. They're going to get end racism out of the end zone. They're going to distract you with that what's happening in that league right now with its black employees is Adam Silver became the most popular progressive commissioner when he got rid of the racist. Like, that's when it happened. It's Donald Sterling. Oh, look, a leader just got rid of an owner. The owners are untouchable. It's not because Adam Silver had any real power. It's because all the other owners wanted him gone and then had their excuse. And Adam Silver becomes. Oh, look, David Stern's progressive learner rises to the top of sports. What leadership. And now, look, I think it's relevant that I'm telling you that none of these players wanted to play in the bubble during the pandemic because America was in crisis. There was a race war that was being promised, and they didn't want to spend the time descending from civil rights League, descending from Bill Russell and Kareem Abdul Jabbar. They didn't feel like entertaining us. They didn't feel like working for the owners anymore.

[Stugotz]

They also didn't want to be locked in a place for over a month without being able to go out.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah. When the reported details were, was a lot of that was coming from Kyrie, and they were dealing with all sorts of Kyrie stuff.

[Stugotz]

Money from the Mr. Beast thing. Like, there's angles where it looks like.

[Chris Cody]

He did, and then Durant took it from him.

[Stugotz]

Kyrie, was that real money? Because that, like, that's a crazy prop. And also, why didn't more people just say, you know what? Like, this is going to be written off by someone. This is free money sitting out. No one's going to inventory this after the fact. Right.

[Dominique Foxworth]

I will say one place where Adam Silver probably did a good job and it came off of a bad job initially, was given everything that's been in the news over the last two years in the Middle east, the Kyrie thing kind of quieted down. Like, they finally they got a grip of that situation, and that's a pretty thankless job, especially with how messy that it got. I know eras are impossible to compare, but some of the guys that are in the league, especially some of the guys that are most known, LeBron, for example, Kevin Durant. They were around when David Stern was around. I see a lot of these things happening, a lot of these problems happening, and it's not like some of these things weren't around when Stern was. But I just have a hard time wrapping my head around like this. This would definitely feel different if David Stern was in charge. He was such a cult of personality that it just, like the players wouldn't have gotten so much power to the point that if Adam Silver, which what we all assume goes to the locker room, say, all right, guys, let's try to go give America a good show. And LeBron's like, nope, no, I'm good. I just don't see that happening to David Stern. I feel like David Stern commands a little bit more respect.

[Greg Cote]

Different era, though, different players.

[Dominique Foxworth]

I know it's hard to shop also.

[Chris Cody]

And different America, like, different public America. There's some stuff here, man. Look, man, don't ignore. Please don't ignore that this would have all played out differently in Canada if it had been our basketball team up there.

[Dan Le Batard]

Like, right league, right place, right time, right? Like, no, it's not about whether or not we're booed. It's whether or not the players embrace the villainy. Right? Like, the players right now, if we're. If we're taking a straw poll of the players on the American hockey team, I would think that straw poll leans towards some more people supporting the present administration than it would be if you had sent the NBA all stars up to Canada. And when they're getting booed, how do they handle the national anthem? How does all of this work where right now you have, like, you know, highlight clips to fortunate son by CCR being put out by the White House? You're not having the same sort of thing being done if you have these NBA players. Not to sound like Dan, but there is.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah. Look, I genuinely think hockey players care less about politics. I understand. I understand what we're doing demographically, but you got to keep in mind, the league is mostly Canadian. What do you think about. What do you think about Canada's politics? Like, hockey is actually a lot more progressive than it lets on. Look at what Matthew Tkachuk said when the rainbow tape situation popped up. So I think I understand where you're coming from there a little bit. But also, there are bad faith aggregators. You have a nation convinced because of some of these aggregate sites like End Wokeness and even government websites. Oh, this is a response. You boo our anthem. This is what happens, man. This was so predetermined. It had nothing to do with the anthem.

[Dan Le Batard]

It had everything to do with the.

[Dominique Foxworth]

First best on best matchup between the US and Canada in 11 years.

[Dan Le Batard]

I'm not saying the fights have anything to do with it, but I imagine there might be conversations being had about, hey, how do you feel about this happening while you're out there? And those responses from what we saw literally in 2020 and on. Like those responses from the NBA are going to be different than what you get from the NHL. Tell me it's right place, right time.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Do you know? And I don't. I'm not talking about there hasn't been.

[Dan Le Batard]

But the ignoring of it is the same thing. Like, that's kind of the point. I'm not saying you need to keep up for it as opposed to what would have been an abject criticism. And there is a difference there in the way that we respond as fans as well.

[Dominique Foxworth]

I'm sure the players would have responded differently, too. It seems like everyone's taking Auston Matthews lead, which is like, we're just not going talk about this. We understand that this is not about us. This is about a singular person. I know. I felt the emotion. I didn't like hearing it. As no matter how bad things get between the two countries, I could never see me booing another anthem because of one person. It's probably going to happen Thursday, but I get it.

[Stugotz]

I'll move the shit out of an anthem, any anthem. I don't care what it is. Coming up against my team, I'll boo you. I don't care.

[Billy Gill]

I've never thought about it before.

[Stugotz]

Oh, I would boo the hell out of any. If I was there against my team's anthem. If I was out of doubt in my mind, what's wrong with you people?

[Chris Cody]

Our national anthem, you would boo? Well, it depends.

[Stugotz]

It depends who's playing and what side I'm rooting for. If it's the enemy's side, I'm booing it. I don't care. I'll do anything. If it's the enemy.

[Billy Gill]

After being in that, I'm not going.

[Stugotz]

To go after a. After a period to go start high fiving people and say, hey, nice, you know, beer, whatever. Hey, you know what I mean? Like, good period. No, this is war. Sorry, Chris, go ahead.

[Chris Cody]

But any anthem you would boo, including if you were, for some reason, if you were rooting for a marlin who played on the Dominican Republic or the Dominican Republic was playing in. In the World Baseball Classic against the United States.

[Stugotz]

Well, I'm not Dominican, so it's different.

[Chris Cody]

Okay, so thank you. You want Cuba? I don't. Who would. What circumstance would you root against the national. America's national anthem.

[Billy Gill]

Who?

[Stugotz]

It's a good question. One I wasn't prepared for. I'll get back to you.

[Chris Cody]

We have someone. Thank you for all the help, Billy. Excellent work as always, Don LeBatard.

[Mr. Beast]

I took my son to the barbershop get a haircut. And my man gave out some limp dap.

[Chris Cody]

Oh, no.

[Stugotz]

Damn, damn, damn.

[Chris Cody]

St.

[Mr. Beast]

I disowned him. I threw him right under the bus. I was like, whose kid is that out here dishing out limp dap?

[Stugotz]

This is the Dan Levitar show with the stug.

[Chris Cody]

Dominique Foxworth is there. Dominique is noticing the show. He is in pain at how poorly you just did that. Dominique, tell us all your thoughts on. On what you just saw. Anthem related, because you're here to. To what? All right, hold on a second. We've got to unmute you real quick. Okay, we'll get that right.

[Billy Gill]

Maybe he's doing a mime bit now.

[Chris Cody]

We'll get that in a second. We'll get that right in a second. You were. You were saying, Billy, did you want to continue or you're done?

[Stugotz]

I'm thinking of circumstances. You mentioned the Cuba, when. That one's tricky, because then there's the whole, you know, the Cuban team. Who are they playing for? Because they're just men, but are they playing for the government and the regime? I don't know who I would boo for in that situation. You just said I was quite conflicted at the World Baseball Classic when Cuba came to town. I'll be honest with you.

[Billy Gill]

I've never thought about booing an anthem before. But. But the way I felt with Canada doing it, if I was in that building and I heard booing, I mean, I'm not. I, I. It's tit for tat. Like you did to me. I do it to you.

[Chris Cody]

Really? That is not turn the other cheek. That is not take the high road. That is not so.

[Stugotz]

We're at war, Dan. Like this.

[Chris Cody]

With Canada.

[Stugotz]

Yeah. In many wars.

[Chris Cody]

Would we be at war with Canada?

[Stugotz]

I don't know, but we're in it. What are we gonna do, huh?

[Dominique Foxworth]

Are you not paying attention?

[Stugotz]

You ever look around and say, how do I find myself here? I don't know, but I'm not going. I can't just pontificate on why I'm here. Now I just got to act. Fight or flight. And it's time to fight.

[Dan Le Batard]

I've never been.

[Stugotz]

So when it's the four nations tournament, it is time to fight.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Just Google Trudeau. Microphone on.

[Billy Gill]

I didn't like being called a Yankee.

[Stugotz]

Didn't he step down?

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah, but it's not immediately.

[Chris Cody]

You guys think that what our country is presently doing doesn't deserve to get get booed?

[Stugotz]

What?

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah. No, it does. I just.

[Stugotz]

You're gonna root for Canada? The Four nations tournament.

[Dominique Foxworth]

There were plenty of. There were plenty of Canadians around us that were respectful and didn't boo it because they would find out real quick.

[Billy Gill]

It's kind of like when someone attacks stugats. That's my stugots. You can't say that. I can say that.

[Greg Cote]

You don't boo an anthem, right?

[Chris Cody]

Oh, you would.

[Stugotz]

Is it hockey?

[Chris Cody]

If you were with us, you would.

[Billy Gill]

Want to boo Canada's anthem. If you were there, you would want.

[Dominique Foxworth]

To, but you would think better of it.

[Greg Cote]

Well, if they booed my anthem, I'd probably boo their anthem. See, they started it in Montreal.

[Chris Cody]

Look at what Chris Cody learned. There it is, ladies and gentlemen. That is generations of Cody wisdom right there. Pass down the family right there.

[Dominique Foxworth]

It's hard to boo their anthem too.

[Chris Cody]

It slaps Dominique. Dominique has now returned, presumably with functioning sound. You have any thoughts on what it is you just heard?

[Mr. Beast]

So, first of all, the sound issue was completely on my side. So don't blame anybody, don't fire anybody. I will take full responsibility. Your crack team in the video room and in the shipping container did an outstanding job. But the thing that I wanted to address was the conversation that we're having about, like the commissioners in the league. I think we often do this and I think I heard Bill Simmons doing and a lot of people doing it saying that things would be different if David Stern was in office. But I think we fail to understand how different the circumstances are and weren't like when David Stern ran the league. They were growing like essentially a startup and guys were making less than a million dollars on average. And I think the power dynamics in leave shifted in a way that you can no longer be the iron fisted commissioner that I think people wish that we had. So I'm not arguing that Adam Silver has done a fantastic job. I just think that the strategy that would have to. He would have had to have taken was just going to be different. And if David Stern were still the commissioner of the league, I'm not sure that the iron fists that we think would have had guys fall in line would have worked when guys are making a hundred million from Nike when they step into the league. And so when Adam Silver took over, and I think we're going to dive into this on my show later, but when Adam Silver took over, like LeBron James was already LeBron James. So I'm not sure that things will be different. I guess that's my only point.

[Chris Cody]

No, it's. And it's a good point because we're romanticizing for A day there will never be again. Like, that's not that once you've gotten to this point on Jimmy Butler, on Jimmy Butler, when the players realize that that's the power that they have. Like, we will never go back.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Dominique, correct me if I'm wrong. Didn't the NFL kind of address this issue? And you don't have wayward voices. There's pretty much everyone's on board with politics equals bad for the growth of our sport.

[Mr. Beast]

Yeah, I think the NFL and NBA are very different in the way that they function. And like, I. I think the players in the NFL and the players in NBA fall in different places politically, politically, and also fall in different places in their willingness to fall in line. I think one thing we've learned about basketball players, and it's not. I think sometimes these things come off as criticisms, but the players themselves, bec the franchises a while ago, like, this is the culmination. The process that started when the league started promoting Bird and Magic is now we're at the point where we have LeBron fans, not Heat fans or not Cav fans. And I think there are still some local fan bases that matter. But we all recognize that the players are why we tune in. And as much as we love quarterbacks, we'll tune in for a defensive battle. We'll tune in when the. The promo picture is T.J. watt versus Miles Garrett. I'm watching that. And it doesn't. And so I. Players recognize that they do not have that same amount of sway. And so with the NBA players being generally, I think, probably more progressive than in NFL players in being definitely more famous, more. More valuable, and have more influence, I think arguing that the. You could run the same playbook that the NFL has run and thinking it will work in the NBA is not true. I think they are one of the groups, the entities that, while we call them all partners that actually are closer to partners with the league and need to be treated as such. And getting them on board is a lot different than telling them what to do.

[Stugotz]

How do you fix it, though? Like, if you're at the NBA, right? Because, like, it seems like they're just too big. Right? Like the players are just too powerful and successful. You're getting paid $50 million. Yeah. I'm going to sit out this exhibition because why am I going to put my future earnings at risk? Right. But, like, at the same time, you do turn off. Off fans where it's like, okay, well, you don't take this seriously, I'm not gonna watch. You don't take the regular season seriously. I'm not gonna watch. I'll come around on the playoffs and the playoffs coming, like, I'm not really invested in this because I haven't been watching all year. So then the ratings continue to go down, but seemingly, like TV contracts always go up. Right. So it's only going to continue to have this divide and. And theoretically get worse for players are going to be making more and more money, getting more and more powerful, and the league is going to have less and less control. So how do you save this?

[Mr. Beast]

That's the. So I think that's the interesting part is this super challenging problem. So I think that what they started to do, where they opened up opportunity for the players to be investors in the teams, I think it's just incentives. It's like a basic economist, and I know Dan loves to talk about economies, but like a basic economist argument is you want to align the interests of the people with the most power with that of the league. And so I think it's very difficult to do in this situation. In the past, it was clear where the interests were lined up. Like, the guys were not making a lot of money. So growing the league and increasing the value of the league would make it so guys in the 90s and the early 2000s would make more money. We're at a situation now where guys walk into the league making a ton of money from the league and also from their shoe partners and all those things. So I think that's the biggest challenge is ensuring that their interests are aligned with the interests of the league in the way that partners would. And I think the NFL is different and that those players are a lot more like employees than the basketball players are. And employees who know that their careers are going to be short and know that they have a short period of time to make money and know that they are imminently replaceable behave a lot differently than guys who are like, look, you've scoured the entire globe to find someone half as good as me. You're not going to tell me what to do. You're just not going to do it. And so you need them to be in, like, internally aligned with your interests. And that's a hard thing to pull off. Which is why when people talk trash about how. How terrible all our commissioners are, I'm like, job's pretty damn hard. Pretty hard.

[Chris Cody]

Like, Dominique, go into a room. I'm sorry. Sorry, I'm just. No, I just got to stop you, because Chris and Greg are arguing about whether Greg should say to you is this Jared Payton? They're arguing about it and I can't.

[Stugotz]

Oh boy.

[Mike Ryan]

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