The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Episode: Hour 1: The Bad Faith Argument
Date: December 11, 2025
Location: Elser Hotel, Downtown Miami
Hosts & Guests: Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, Tony Reali, Amin Elhassan, Zaslow, Kendrick Perkins, Mike Ryan, Pablo Torre (mentioned), others

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the unprecedented dominance of the Oklahoma City Thunder in the NBA, analyzing their historic run, how their success impacts the league's narrative and appeal, and the evolving dynamics of superstar team-building. Dan and the crew debate whether such excellence is ultimately good or bad for basketball, scrutinize the myths around "marketable drama" versus "sustained greatness", and use OKC as a launchpad for wider conversations about sports storytelling, fan engagement, and organizational strategy. Throughout, the panel challenges each other's assumptions—sometimes in good faith, sometimes less so—with humor, stats, and the show's trademark irreverence.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Notre Dame’s Preferential Playoff Access: Pablo Torre as Notre Dame

• Summary: Dan draws a parallel between Notre Dame’s new college football playoff advantages and Pablo Torre's position in his public spat with Nick Wright.

• Quote:

  “In the argument of Pablo Torre vs Nick Wright, Pablo Torre is Notre Dame. He’s right, but he’s going to look and sound like he’s wrong.” — Dan Le Batard (02:19)

• Context: Sets up a theme of being correct but unpopular, foreshadowing the later OKC discussion.

2. Oklahoma City Thunder’s Historic Dominance

• Opening Stats & Context (04:08–08:52)

  • Dan:
    Describes OKC’s current run as the most dominant 25-game stretch ever, even surpassing Miami’s 27-game win streak in terms of point differential. Wonders aloud if this type of one-sided excellence is bad for the NBA:

    “I don’t think it’s good for the sport... It’s an entirely different thing to have it be a small market team that’s interesting only because of its excellence. There’s nothing else interesting there.” (04:24)

  • Reali & Amin:
    OKC’s blowout wins are like “an AAU team of D1 players against a church league” (Tony Reali, 05:55).

  • Zaslow:
    Marvels at OKC’s potential to win both the NBA Cup and the most regular-season games ever:

    “We could circle back... I’ve never seen a team that just doesn’t lose...” (06:32-07:27)

  • Tony Reali’s Stat of the Day:
    OKC has led by 20+ points this season for more minutes than they've trailed at all:

    “The Thunder have led by 20-plus points more than they have trailed...” (07:51)

3. Is Absolute Excellence Good or Bad for Basketball?

• Dan’s Devil’s Advocate:
  Argues that dominance, especially by a small market team with defense and no “superteam drama,” is a tough sell:

  “I’m going to have a hard time making basketball defense interesting to the average person.” (08:52)

• Tony Reali:
  Pushes back, calling OKC a “palate cleanser” and insisting their fun, fast-break defense is entertainment:

  “They play an interesting, fun style of basketball. I don’t think the market thing really matters. What matters is when people watch these guys play.” (09:32) “Everyone claims they love parody. Parody is bullshit...the biggest light...is if you have a dominant, nobody can beat them. It’s Rocky 4 all over again.” (10:17)

4. NBA Cup & the ‘Meaningless Game’ Prediction

• Amin’s Hot Take:

  “The Oklahoma City Thunder will not win the NBA Cup...the NBA Cup final is the 83rd game, and the league has determined...that not only does that not count towards your record, but any stats accumulated in that game do not count.” (11:14)

• Dan:

  “I think Dagonal is going to take a dive.” (11:43)

5. OKC’s Team-Building Masterclass & the Sam Presti Effect

• Amin Elhassan:
  Attributes OKC’s success to “the best run organization in all of sports” and details how Sam Presti’s savvy—through trades (involving the Clippers, etc.), drafts, and patience—built the team:

  “Sam Presti is...the sharpest strategist in all of front office.” (17:18)

• Tony Reali:
  Compares Presti’s long game to “Richard Pryor in Superman 3...taking a fraction of a penny on every transaction” until it became a fortune (20:15).
• Kendrick Perkins:
  Praises the “homegrown” recalibration:

  “Sam Presti...was like, ‘I’m in a perfect position to usher in a new blueprint of how teams can go going forward.’” (18:46)

• Discussion of Potential Big Trades:
  Hypothetical about trading Holmgren and a first for Giannis, with talk of OKC’s financial prudence (22:22–23:32).

6. Narratives, Drama, & Personality in Team Sports

• Dan:
  Asserts that OKC lacks the controversial or magnetic personalities that fuel widespread attention:

  “Shea Gilgeous Alexander...not spokesman for the league type...You're not going to get anything else...other than your play.” (37:23)

• Tony Reali:
  Counters that likability and even a “quiet” dominance can still engage fans, citing Tim Duncan, Steph Curry, and Michael Jordan as examples (37:28).

7. Good Faith vs. Bad Faith Arguments

• The crew repeatedly calls out bad faith arguments—particularly regarding the lack of competitive close games due to blowouts and three-point shooting.

  “You say that we did see a competitive seven game series...But...somebody got hurt by double digits...That's not a good faith argument." (25:24-25:40)

• Mike Ryan:
  Points out that OKC’s postseason stories lack signature, memorable moments compared to other great champs (33:54).
• Dan:
  Expresses concern that the era of three-pointers and blowouts could erode the classic “buzzer-beater” moments that anchor the NBA’s mythology (33:56).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dan Le Batard:

  “Not only is it not good to win with defense, not only is small market generally rejected...for 15 years we’ve been trained on super teams. It’s not one guy. It’s not one guy.” (16:01)

• Tony Reali:

  “Everyone claims they love parody. Parody is bullshit. Everyone locally loves parody because, like, oh, my team has a chance. But the reality is, nationally, nationally, no one’s interested because, like, oh, so anyone can win. All right, I’ll call me when it’s important.” (10:21)

• Amin Elhassan:

  “The Clippers are giving their first rounder to the Thunder this season and they, they might have the number one pick. And that’s on top of the five other picks they sent. Right? This is. And Shea, Gilders, Alexander..." (18:07)

• Kendrick Perkins:

  "Sam Prezi was playing...he was looking at the, at the landscape of basketball being like, okay, I think the blueprint for the super team, the Big Three, is kind of dead. I want to build this thing another way...” (18:46)

• Tony Reali (on sports fandom):

  “People want to see Goliath either destroy someone or they want to see David hit him in between the eyes with a slingshot. That’s what this whole thing is built as.” (34:23)

• Mike Ryan (on narratives):

  “The Thunder found a way to go to Game 7 of the NBA Finals without those super memorable moments.” (34:18)

Important Timestamps

• 01:42 — Show content begins after sponsor reads.
• 02:42–03:01 — Dan’s Notre Dame analogy re: Pablo Torre and internet narratives.
• 04:08–08:52 — OKC Thunder’s historic dominance breakdown.
• 07:51 — “Stat of the Day”: Thunder have led by 20+ more than they've trailed.
• 08:52–11:51 — Is OKC’s success a problem for basketball?
• 17:15–21:29 — Deep dive on Sam Presti’s team-building genius & OKC’s asset strategy.
• 22:22–23:32 — Hypothetical trade: Holmgren & Clippers pick for Giannis.
• 25:24–25:40 — Bad faith/good faith debate about playoff narratives.
• 33:54–34:18 — “No signature OKC playoff moments” discussion.
• 34:23–35:48 — Parity vs. dominance as the engine of sports drama.
• 37:23–38:28 — The challenge of marketing stars like Shea Gilgeous Alexander.
• Throughout — Numerous “Is this a good faith argument?” exchanges.

Tone & Language

• Irreverent, witty, and at times self-effacing.
• Classic back-and-forth banter with persistent fact-checking and challenges.
• Wonderful mix of stats, storytelling, and comedy.
• Equal parts sports nerdery and big-picture cultural commentary.

Summary for the Non-Listener

If you missed this episode, you missed a formidable breakdown of what makes (or doesn’t make) greatness compelling in team sports. Using the Oklahoma City Thunder’s historic NBA tear as a lens, Dan and the crew debated whether pure sporting dominance—especially in the absence of “superstar drama”—is healthy for basketball, and how much narrative needs to matter. The conversation highlighted the brilliance of Sam Presti’s asset management, the limits of parity as a draw, and concluded with a meta-analysis of what makes team and player personalities marketable in modern sports. Packed with stats, context, and classic “good faith/bad faith” sparring, it’s a quintessential Local Hour for fans who like their sports debate both smart and silly.