Hour 1: The Drunkenness Tiers

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Hour 1: The Drunkenness Tiers
Date: December 9, 2025
Hosts: Dan Le Batard, Stugotz
Notables: Pablo S. Torre, David Samson, Tony, others
Location: Elser Hotel, Miami

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, and the crew pour their unique comedic energy into everything from locker room culture and modern sports business to the mysteries of drunkenness in pro sports. The conversation bounces vibrantly from an NFL player’s wild admission about playing games drunk, to the construction of “Drunkenness Tiers,” to probing the downward spirals of would-be NBA superstars like Ja Morant. Laced with signature banter and irreverence, the hour offers both serious sports analysis and hilarious takes on everything from AI impersonations to private equity in college football.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. AI Impersonation and Identity Theft

Segment: [02:56–05:35]

• Dan Le Batard shares a surreal and “real-life nightmare” experience: someone submitted a Wall Street Journal op-ed under his name.
  • He emphasizes the growing threat of AI and identity confusion but is clear, “they don’t have my Social Security number… [they’re] just trying to get something published in my own nom de plume.”
  • David and Stugotz discuss the nightmare scenario of being impersonated by scammers, highlighting how even show members have had their identities stolen.
  • Dan pivots quickly from the scam (“I need to call the credit card company. Hold on one second.”) with his trademark self-deprecating humor.

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2. Quentin Jammer’s “Shit-Faced Drunk” Admission

Segment: [06:03–12:50]

• Stugotz reacts with disbelief to former NFL corner Quentin Jammer's online claim he played “completely shit faced drunk in at least 8 games” in 2011.
  • “That’s not possible... I don’t believe it can be done well shit face drunk or drunk of any kind.” — Stugotz [07:03]
• Dan Le Batard pushes back: “Players drink all the time. They drink before games, they drink during games, they drink after games.” [07:41]
• Stats are cited regarding Jammer’s subpar 2011 season (dead last in passer rating allowed [08:52]), sparking debate whether “shit faced” really means what it sounds like.
• Pablo S.: "You know what I’m learning from Quentin Jammer? Not a drinker — oh, amateur hour." [09:53]
• The segment humorously devolves into everyone debating the semantics of “shit faced” and sharing their own theories of what levels of drunk are plausible in pro sports.

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3. Constructing the “Drunkenness Tiers”

Segment: [12:24–20:31]

• David brings up legendary writer Dan Jenkin’s “10 Stages of Drunkenness,” which the show attempts to read, but mid-list, realizes is both outdated and unrelatable (“It’s a terrible list.” — Dan Le Batard, [12:12]).

• Pablo S. introduces his own more modern, relatable hierarchy of drunkenness:

  • Buzzed
  • Tipsy
  • Nice/Feeling Good
  • Drunk
  • Obnoxious
  • Brownout
  • Shit-faced
  • Blackout
  • Leaving Las Vegas (the final catastrophic stage)
  • “Greg Cody” (an honorary, comedic addition)

• Segment highlight:

  • “Barfing is somewhere after shitface, but blackout I do believe is the last stop here. But shit faced is dead.” — Stugotz, [11:21]

• Discussion of “Brownout”:

  • Pablo S.: “Brownout is you're functional, but you’re not all there. People wouldn't be able to know, but you’re actually out of your mind.” [19:59]

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4. NBA Trade Rumors: Ja Morant & Giannis

Segment: [20:48–30:56]

• Conversation pivots to NBA trade likelihoods, focusing on disgruntled or underperforming stars like Ja Morant and Giannis Antetokounmpo:
  • Amin (by attribution): “You can’t have a coach run a system your star player hates unless you just don’t care about your star player.” [21:14]
  • The panel distinguishes between injury and being “unavailable” due to off-court immaturity, with Ja Morant compared to historical spirals like Ben Simmons, Grant Hill, Brandon Roy, Penny Hardaway.
  • Stugotz: “Injury to me doesn’t qualify in this conversation... It’s random. It’s guy can’t play. So it’s Ben Simmons doesn’t have value as a player and it’s not because he’s hurt…” [24:28]
  • Pablo S.: “...If John Morant were healthy, or if... he came back with a heater for a jump shot, people are willing to look past a lot. I’ll quote the great Mike D’Antoni: 'I’ll play Satan if he can hit a jump shot.'” [25:07]
  • Segment concludes with debate about “Heat Culture” and if Miami would even go after possibly problematic stars, with consensus being that talent (and the hope of redemption) generally prevails there.

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5. Miami Heat and “Culture Fit”

Segment: [30:56–37:38]

• The crew discusses whether Miami should, or would, chase Ja Morant or Giannis, given the Heat’s storied focus on “culture.”
  • “This idea they would never get Ja because Ja doesn’t fit Heat culture—that’s what Heat culture is all about, is getting guys who are outlaws and renegades and rogues.” — Pablo S., [37:23]
  • Previous Heat reclamation projects cited: Tim Hardaway, Alonzo Mourning, Shaquille O'Neal, Antoine Walker.
  • Reality: The team often succeeds with players deemed “headaches” elsewhere.

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6. The Business of College Football & “Professionalization”

Segment: [38:44–44:37]

• David explains the evolving business model in college football as lawsuits emerge over player compensation and schools secure massive booster and donor gifts.
• Dan Le Batard: “If [being] champion of the second biggest sport we have in America, any program would pay $25 million for that. Where’s this going to be in five years?” [43:20]
• David: “It will be a professional league. It’s what I’ve been saying... You have a payroll. It’ll be a payroll of what the revenues can withstand. Could it be $100 million, $150 million payroll for a college team? Of course.” [43:59]
• Concerns about private equity, uneven booster access, and “conflicts of interest” are flagged.
• Dan Le Batard: “Is it worse than AI? This is just so bad. Everything’s bad.” [43:13] (said with his usual comedic despair)

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7. Closing Notes & Charitable Appeal

Segment: [44:41–End]

• As the hour closes, Dan puts out a call for the show’s holiday toy drive:
  • “If you want to make Christmas for some kids who would not necessarily have toys otherwise… you will be getting directly to kids. Your money will go to making kids happier this Christmas.” [44:41]
  • Warm thanks and sign-offs to Pablo, David, and listeners.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dan Le Batard: “Players drink all the time. They drink before games, they drink during games, they drink after games.” — [07:41]
• Stugotz: “That’s not possible… I don’t believe it can be done well shit face drunk or drunk of any kind.” — [07:03]
• Pablo S.: “You know what I’m learning from Quentin Jammer? Not a drinker—oh, amateur hour.” — [09:53]
• Stugotz: “Barfing is somewhere after shitface, but blackout I do believe is the last stop here. But shit faced is dead.” — [11:21]
• Dan Le Batard: “Is it worse than AI? This is just so bad. Everything’s bad.” — [43:13]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:56–05:35] — AI impersonation and identity theft
• [06:03–12:50] — Quentin Jammer “shit-faced drunk” and the plausibility/debate
• [12:24–20:31] — Drunkenness Tiers breakdown and banter
• [20:48–30:56] — NBA trade rumors: Ja Morant, Giannis, and the "problematic star"
• [30:56–37:38] — “Heat Culture” and Heat reclamation history
• [38:44–44:37] — College football business and the rise of professionalization
• [44:41–End] — Charity pitch and sign offs

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Summary

This episode weaves classic Le Batard Show tomfoolery with sharp, insightful commentary across the sports spectrum. From arguing the plausibility of playing NFL cornerback while blackout drunk, to debating the semantics of drunkenness, to analyzing athletes’ downfall and organizational redemptions, to dissecting the business arms race now defining college football, the crew delivers both serious perspective and laugh-out-loud moments. The show’s signature blend of camaraderie, insider knowledge, and relentless ribbing is on full display — producing an episode that’s as thought-provoking as it is entertaining for any fan.

Transcript

[Dan Le Batard]

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[Stugotz]

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[Pablo S.]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm.

[Dan Le Batard]

Listening to this podcast Smart move Being.

[Stugotz]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Another smart move having State Farm help.

[Stugotz]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[Stugotz]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[Stugotz]

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[Dan Levator]

This is the Dan Levator show with the Stugarts Podcast.

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[Stugotz]

As I mentioned at the start of what we were doing here with Metal Arc Media linking up New York and Miami in a way during this holiday season that genuinely makes me grateful to be working with my friends and to be building something during a difficult media time. It doesn't mean that I'm not frustrated at all times by working with these friends because Chris Cody just texted me during that last break. I have a bunch of nicknames that can be used instead of hogs and he did this while Pablo, allegedly the Harvard among us, blurted during the break, I like office holiday parties.

These things would have been useful back when we were talking about them. You circling back around two hours later to have thoughts on things that were 90 minutes ago while David spends the entire time in his phone distracted and not presently here in any way.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, so I, I sorry, I. I will pay the fine, but I have my phone set where there's four people who can make it through the silence because of emergencies that could happen with a sick child. So it's happening. And then on a break, I'll look at everything else that's happening. And so I'm just trying to deal with getting lunch for her. She can only eat certain things, and I'm gonna go to her favorite restaurant to get a lunch for my daughter right after the show's over. But now I gotta deal with this. I got a text, and I'm sorry, but someone's impersonating me. Speaking of AI and everyone worried about, you know, they're losing their identity, someone's impersonating me. What would you think would be the number one thing that a person would do trying to impersonate me? What would they do?

[David]

Donate to a politician who's in favor.

[Dan Levator]

Of higher tax rates, bill taxpayers to build a publicly funded stadium.

[Dan Le Batard]

Amazing. These are all keep, keep, keep going. Good. So what happened is I got notification from a friend at the Wall Street Journal that someone submitted an op ed under my name discussing MLB and the new cba. And they were confirming. My friend was confirming because it did not sound like me. Like, why are you doing that?

And then I had to say, that wasn't me. And this is. This was at the end of. This was during the show.

[David]

Hold on. So a scammer, prankster, submitted an op ed to the Wall Street Journal under your name?

[Dan Le Batard]

Yes.

[David]

Can you ask for that op ed to be sent to you so you.

[Dan Le Batard]

Can share it, so you can see it?

[David]

I would like to see what level of effort this mystery journalist put into this op ed. And what was the point? What were they. What were they proposing?

[Dan Le Batard]

I assume the word Crete is inside that.

[Stugotz]

What do you know? What do you.

[Dan Le Batard]

This is one of your real time.

[Pablo S.]

Okay.

[Stugotz]

But I would think that this would be one of your real life nightmares. Someone stealing your identity. That is a nightmare. I think that's happened to a couple of people on our show that have had their identity stolen. And how it is that you end. End up trying to go get it back becomes a monster inconvenience. I would think that you have very few fears larger in the scam kingdom than that one.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, they don't have my identity. They don't have my Social Security number. They're not getting my bank account or credit card but what they're doing is trying no. So I assume anyone who goes to the Wall Street Journal with an op ed is not after anything in my bank account. They're just trying to get something published in my own nom de plume. That would be my thought at least. You know what I need to call the credit card company. Hold on one second.

[David]

I mean I would so confident about this.

Right handed pitcher James Karin Sack has signed a minor league deal with the Atlanta Braves.

[Stugotz]

Can I get Jeremy to always speak in that voice? I like that he uses fewer words. He's good with the information. I think I your family.

[David]

You finally called him Brown.

[Stugotz]

I am reading some news here from Quentin Jammer that I'm having trouble believing. The Quentin Jammer I associate with having one of the great names for someone who has ever played a position. You very rarely find someone named so well in sports for what it is that they did well in sports. He was a very good cover corner who jammed well at the line. He has now admitted. Is this on Twitter that he did this? That he. I just find this impossible to believe that he played eight games how many years ago Pablo just drunk. Incredibly shit face. Drunk. What do you mean the term.

[David]

I mean let's read it though because this is from last night during. During I guess the game quote true story in 2011 I played completely shit faced drunk in at least 8 games.

[Stugotz]

That's not possible. It's not possible? Probable, no. What do you mean?

[Dan Levator]

It's.

[Dan Le Batard]

You think he's the only player?

[Pablo S.]

I.

[Stugotz]

Yes. I. Yes. I don't believe it's possible to play.

[David]

That hard to play quarterback.

[Stugotz]

Shit face. I think cornerback is the second hardest thing to do across sports. I think hitting a baseball is the hardest thing to do. And I think trying to cover a wide receiver when the wide receiver knows where he's going is bigger than you and the quarterback knows where he's going. I believe that's the second hardest thing to do in sports and I don't believe it can be done well shit face drunk or drunk of any kind.

[Dan Le Batard]

We would just tell the players to aim for the middle ball and so I assume that's what the cornerbacks do. They just aim for the middle player, the middle wide receiver. It's very common. Dan.

[Stugotz]

That's not common.

[Dan Le Batard]

It is common.

[Stugotz]

It's it.

[Dan Le Batard]

And players drink all the time. They drink before games, they drink during games, they drink after games.

[David]

Did some players do it as a performance enhancer?

[Dan Le Batard]

So there are. There are Some people who need the hair of the dog for afternoon games.

[Stugotz]

David, this is what I would say is not common, okay? I have heard of it in basketball. I have heard of it in baseball. I have never heard of it in football. And I wouldn't believe that it's possible at that position. If you're saying shit face drunk, this is a person who does not have their proper motor skills. This is not. If you tell me someone's been drinking a little bit, fine. You tell me someone still a little bit drunk from the night before, fine. But if you're playing a one o' clock game.

[Dan Levator]

Game.

[Stugotz]

If you're playing a four o' clock game, I understand he's playing on the west coast. He played most of his game. But shit face drunk. He's not defining shit face drunk the way I'm defining shit face drunk. If. If that's in any realm of possible.

[Dan Le Batard]

He wasn't stumbling, I assume we can go look at videotape and people will now. I doubt everyone will examine his games. Pablo could look at each one. I doubt that he was.

[David]

It did lose eight games. There's no way that specifically lost eight games. And he was shit face drunk. By his own admission, he had no picks that year either.

[Tony]

Also PFF. This is according to Ian Hart. It's PFF. Had him dead last in passer rating allowed at 131.8 when targeted in 2011.

[David]

And he only had.

[Dan Le Batard]

He didn't have mess. He stinks. He only had a couple seasons with.

[David]

Zero picks and that was one of them.

[Stugotz]

Okay, so you guys are saying that now. All right, so you guys are saying that this is true based on the stats that there was an NFL cornerback. All right, let me have the behavior.

[David]

Of someone who may have been shitface drunk is the more that we're finding out.

[Stugotz]

Pablo can be fooled by AI, then you guys can be fooled by the lies of players being told on social media. It is not possible to play an NFL game as a cornerback if you are the way I describe or define shit faced drunk. That's a person. It's a person who's stumbling around.

[David]

I'm with Dan. He has to be exaggerating. Dan, to your point, I'm with you. It feels like semantics. He probably drank.

[Dan Le Batard]

He's drunk.

[David]

It's like, oh, I'm.

[Pablo S.]

I'm really messed up.

[Stugotz]

But shit faced, you're stumbling around. You can't follow anyone over the Greg.

[David]

Cody falling into bushes.

[Pablo S.]

Zaz, you know what I'm learning from Quentin Jammer? Not a drinker oh, amateur hour.

[Stugotz]

He thinks, oh my God, I'm so drunk. I had this Barton James wine cooler.

[Pablo S.]

Oh, to a white wine spritzer.

[Stugotz]

Play football.

[Tony]

I think you guys are playing Quentin Jammer right now. I was reading other exchanges that he had on Twitter and he said he used to have two tequila bottles basically at his locker in his bag every single game.

[David]

Okay, so no, a lot of different sizes.

[Pablo S.]

Yeah, I like, I like levels.

[David]

What? I mean, what are the levels of drunk? Because is shit face the most drunk?

[Pablo S.]

Of course.

[David]

Where does that.

[Pablo S.]

Blackout, Blackout, Blackout.

[David]

I'm sorry, I didn't. I'm on it. Okay.

[Pablo S.]

Yeah. So I would say.

[Stugotz]

I think.

[Pablo S.]

I'm sorry, Dan. I would say that it would start with buzzed, right? That's you buzzed. Then you get to what?

[Dan Le Batard]

I think you're drunk.

[Pablo S.]

No, no, no. Tipsy. There, there's nice. I'm feeling nice. That's. That's what we all want to be.

[Dan Levator]

Lest you overlook the bona fides of one Amino Hassan. We all learned together. He is a world renowned bar patron.

[Pablo S.]

Here's the science. A bar rescue podcast. Get it wherever you get podcasts, it comes out every Tuesday.

[Stugotz]

But I do believe we should create a hierarchy here. And you're. You're on the path to something because drunk tears. Barfing. Barf. Barfing is somewhere throw up. Drunk is somewhere after shitface. But blackout I do believe is the last stop here. But shit faced is dead.

[David]

Can I overdose?

[Stugotz]

Nicholas Cage and leaving Las Vegas.

[David]

So this reminds me actually. So Dan Jenkins, who you may recall is one of the great college football sports writers of all time, he actually did a 10 stages of drunkenness that I just discovered as I'm frantically googling. What are the levels of drunkenness according to Dan Jenkins? We have the ability to put some sound under these. Underneath this number one witty and charming fanfare.

[Stugotz]

But I think you want to do a 10 to 1.

[David]

I think you just ruined it. No, no, no.

[Dan Le Batard]

This is escalating.

[David]

It's escalating, it's escalating.

[Dan Le Batard]

That would be 10 what you just gave.

[David]

Okay. Yeah. Number 10, was it? What are you, charming? Number nine.

[Stugotz]

Richard, come on.

Number nine.

[David]

Number nine. Rich and powerful.

[Pablo S.]

Very good.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's a terrible list.

[David]

This is a great benevolent.

[Stugotz]

What do we do? What is this list?

[David]

Clairvoyant Number six. Dinner.

Number five.

[Stugotz]

We all realized this was a patriotic about the same time. Number four. You gotta keep. You got to see it through. Number three.

[David]

Drank up the Enola Gay.

[Stugotz]

I hope that's a breaking new sound in which we get to Moyer readings.

[David]

Dude.

[Stugotz]

Number two.

[David]

Witty and charting part two. That was number three. Number one. Number two, Invisible.

[Stugotz]

Number seven.

[David]

Bulletproof.

[Stugotz]

A terrible list, Pablo realized. Pablo found the list, Googled it.

[David]

It's one of the greatest sports writers of all time.

[Stugotz]

It's a bad list.

[David]

Oh, now Will Smith has joined Team USA for the World Baseball Classic in 2026.

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[Dan Levator]

Boom.

[Pablo S.]

Checkout.

[David]

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[Dan Levator]

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[David]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Head over to Shopify.

[David]

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[Tony]

Holidays. Fun holidays as a dad. Tough travel gifts. Matchy pajamas. Don't get me started on matching pajamas. It's hot in Miami. My wife says, why don't you want to do this with us? My daughter's crying anyways. School, parties, hosting a family. Next thing I know, I basically put Christmas on my credit card and have no idea what I spent.

[Dan Le Batard]

Where.

[Tony]

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[Stugotz]

A massive deal.

[Tony]

Monarch showed me how fast the holiday budget was disappearing. Flights, gifts, late night online shopping, and helped me pump the brakes before the bill hit. Now my wife and I do quick money check ins. Look at our holiday spending category and actually enjoy the holidays without starting January and the new year in panic. Don't let financial opportunity slip through the cracks. Use code [e-mail] in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first [e-mail] with code DAN. And don't give me those matching pajamas.

[Dan Levator]

I swear.

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[Stugotz]

Don Levatard Go peefy Stugats.

[Dan Le Batard]

Go pee pee.

[Stugotz]

This is the Dunn Levatar show with the stugats.

Pablo tell Take us in inside of your inner monologue. When did you realize Because I heard Benevolent.

[David]

He's not playing the same game that we're playing.

[Stugotz]

I heard. I heard the nerves in your voice on somewhere around number nine. You're only.

From its lack of so.

[David]

Has Bryce to.

I don't know that fool. Yo. That's my gimmick.

[Dan Le Batard]

Really good, Tony. He's really good.

[David]

It was actually when he referenced the Enola Gay and I was like, this is not gonna play in the room. You guys know what the Enola Gay is? No, we don't. Would Rod first have been better than Hog First?

[Dan Le Batard]

The sister of Bengay is all I can think.

[Stugotz]

The Enola Gay was a ship that got redacted during some of the Recent censorship that was going on in the government around the word gay. What did you have here?

[David]

Or else the atomic bomb. That's what the no gay was. It was the bomber that dropped the first atomic bomb.

[Dan Le Batard]

Did you know that before it got redacted?

[David]

We move on.

[Stugotz]

I mean, what did you have here?

[Pablo S.]

I've got your levels of Drunk Dan.

[Stugotz]

A better level than benevolent isn't on it.

[Pablo S.]

No Benevolent.

[Stugotz]

Hold on a second. Zaz, go through there and see what penalty fits for Pablo there and let's kick him out of the room for a couple of minutes. Based on going to a Dan Jenkins list that he hadn't vetted before he started reading it. Find the penalty that gets Pablo the hell out of this room.

[Dan Levator]

Minor penalty, two minutes. Accidental racism.

[David]

No.

[Stugotz]

You can do so much. What happened?

[Dan Le Batard]

He had five choices.

[Stugotz]

You got 100 choices in front of you.

[David]

That's not fair enough. I'm the captain. You know, the gay was a problematic. Yeah. Character in the story of the Japanese people.

[Dan Le Batard]

So stopping the show.

[Stugotz]

Okay, there it is.

[David]

Another one of these has joined Team USA for the upcoming World Baseball Classic.

[Dan Le Batard]

Gave him positive reinforcement because I should have stopped.

[Stugotz]

I shouldn't have given him. I should not have given him any access to power. To power. I mean, what is the. What? Go ahead. How many do you have in the. The Tears of Buzzed?

[Pablo S.]

I've got nine. Nine levels.

[Stugotz]

All right, so it starts with. You couldn't come up with a tenth? No, just.

[David]

You have Greg Cody on there.

[Pablo S.]

I don't. I should.

[David]

There you go.

[Pablo S.]

Number 10. Right. All right, so it starts. Yeah, it starts with buzzed.

[David]

Solid.

[Stugotz]

Good answer.

[Pablo S.]

Then you're tipsy.

Then you're nice. As I said before, it's a good. That's where you want to be.

[David]

Same as feeling good.

[Pablo S.]

Yeah. Then you're drunk. That's when you take that one shot. After you're nice and you're like, I'm trying to maintain. But you can never maintain. You crossover to drunk, then obnoxious.

[Stugotz]

We all know that.

[Pablo S.]

Then brownout.

[Dan Le Batard]

What's brown out?

[Pablo S.]

Brownout is you're functional, but you're not all the way there. But, like, people would not be able to know that. You're absolutely out of your mind because you're functional. But the reality is you're out of your mind. After brown out, you get the shit faced.

[Stugotz]

You skipped over.

[David]

Let's go to the strip club.

[Pablo S.]

Trying to be inclusive. After shitface, you get blackout.

[Stugotz]

How's that not the end?

[Pablo S.]

Because then there's one more level. Leaving Las Vegas.

And Then Greg Cody.

[Stugotz]

No, belligerent. Greg was the word. I was much better than Dan Jenkins's list. What about who wants Taco Bell?

What about I'm good to drive somewhere? Whoa, who said that.

Was before buzzed. I wanted. I wanted to get to a couple of the transactions, not just in baseball. Cause I wanted to ask you what Kyle Schwaber is going to get, David. But before we do that, I wanted to get from Amin. What do you think is going to happen with Jaw and Giannis? Something is going to happen. Do you expect both of those players to be with their teams, yes or no, by the time the trade deadline happen, John?

[Pablo S.]

No, I like the. The. Everything has been set up, as I said, from before the season started. You can't have a coach run a system that your star player hates unless you just don't care about your star player. So as soon as all of these frictions came out early in the year, I said by logic, they absolutely just don't care about John anymore because.

[Stugotz]

Is he hurt?

[Pablo S.]

Well, yes.

[Stugotz]

Well, so you know what I'm asking?

[Pablo S.]

Yes, I would say yes. I think he is hurt because playing is always better than not playing.

[Stugotz]

They're not waiting another six days.

[Dan Le Batard]

December 15th. And they wanna make sure Jod doesn't.

[Stugotz]

Get for real hurts.

[Pablo S.]

Oh, no, no. I don't think they're holding him back. No, no. Look, it's obvious, like I said, this is just someone who does not factor into their future thinking. And so this is where we're at there. When it comes to Giannis, it's a more interesting question because again, they maintain that nothing has changed. And then also part of this is what kind of offers are coming across the table. They learned from the Dallas Mavericks situation. We're going to do this. We got to have the absolute highest caliber auction going on.

[Stugotz]

Can you help me with precedents for what it is we're witnessing on John Morant's front? I don't have a lot of examples off the top of my head of somebody who a couple of years ago is being talked about as possible face of the league. They're constant. They're. They're obviously ascending. Memphis might be a challenger to Golden State. And then a couple of years later, there aren't drug problems, there are maturity problems. And that player can now be had for pennies on the dollar. What are the comps there? Like what? Give me all the precedent that you guys have on. This is going to be the face of the league. We're going to put it up there with Anthony Edwards. Oh, never mind.

[David]

He was before Anthony Edwards. Anthony Edwards is the guy who came in and filled the vacuum because John Morant could not stop getting in trouble that very few people had sympathy for. It's stunning to be the guy who like, I don't want to dismiss his fans who I assume still exists somewhere. But like, it's just remarkable how widely unpopular John Morant has become entirely because he's been doing stuff that just. It ranks as just dumbass stupid like that is.

[Dan Le Batard]

Isn't that how you become wildly unpopular? By brandishing guns on live Instagram, by disrespecting your coach organization, by not being a winner, by being physically hurt half the time. He and Zion Williamson to me are now on the same page. They are just two.

[Stugotz]

But no matter the part that I guess I'm asking you, Amin, is to help me. Young player with such obvious physical gifts and explosion that all of us are saying, I can't wait to see what this becomes. Is it going to be what takes over the league a couple of years later? Can't play Grant Hill, but can't. Okay, Ben Simmons.

[Pablo S.]

Grant Hill, yeah, that's another good one. Brandon Roy was another good one. I mean a lot of times these examples aren't oh, he. What a dumbass. It's usually he got hurt again and again and again. And so there are a lot of names like that. Penny Hardaway is another one. I mean that I felt like that whole post Jordan the first time era was all these guys who had potential, but then they got hurt and, and they couldn't live.

[Stugotz]

Forgive me though. I am making a distinction here though. Injury to me doesn't qual qualify in this conversation. It's random. It's guy can't play. So it's Ben Simmons doesn't. Doesn't have value as a player and it's not because he's hurt. And when, when Zaz asks Amin, is he hurt, I don't know if he's asking physically or emotionally, but the answer is yes. Whatever's happening there with John Moran, he's hurt in a way that doesn't seem physical. He's not a player people want right now because they don't trust him. And I don't have a lot of comps for that that aren't drug related.

[Pablo S.]

Dan, the reason for Ja, right, because it's complicated. Injury is a part of his story. He hasn't been available in part because he gets hurt quite often. He doesn't have the biggest frame style of play is a problem because his Inability to shoot consistently makes the game a little bit more of a liability, more tough to build around than what we're seeing from the other great guards of his position, who they all can. They can all shoot. And then it's like. Like the seemingness of. Do you get it? I don't even think the problems off the court are as big of an issue where the problem is he doesn't seem to understand that it's a problem, and the people around him do not behave as though it's a problem. And so those are the problems. But if John Morant were healthy, or if John Morant, through the course of these injuries, had come back with a heater for a jump shot, man, those conversations, people are willing to look past a lot. I'll quote the great Mike d' Antoni who said, I'll play Satan if he can hit a jump shot. Like this idea of like, oh, my God, he was brandishing guns on Instagram Live. NBA people don't care about that shit for real. They care when it affects your availability.

[Stugotz]

When they're also not a good player anymore.

[Pablo S.]

Right? Like they care or that you're hurt or that.

[Stugotz]

But all of those are potentially in play right now with Ja.

[Pablo S.]

Let me put it this way. If Giannis had a flashing guns on Instagram scandal, you guys think, well, not. No, not anymore. Of course everyone would leap for it.

[Stugotz]

Okay? But the thing that I just want to stop you on, because I really have. I'm having trouble with this even as you guys name names, okay? Zaslow saying can't play anymore, like is is not good anymore of Ja Morant is crazy. And it's also not inaccurate. But the part I wanted to ask Amin about the game that John Morant is physically playing is hard. Not just because of his body type and not just because the game has changed so much that if you don't have a jump shot at his size, you're really not very serviceable in that league. The other part that has been affected over the course of the last two years is how physically it hard it is to always land on that floor, how hard it is to get foul shots, how hard it is to play the way that he plays. And so when you guys say.

You guys aren't going to find a whole lot of non injury division, oh, I know that guy's going to be a superstar athletically. And then three years later, oh, never mind.

[Pablo S.]

Well, I don't agree with Zaz on that. I think he absolutely still can be a transcendent player. It's just it's harder to build around when you can't shoot because that means everybody else has to be able to shoot, including your big. To me, the bigger question is, can he stay healthy? He's out right now with a calf strain we're seeing everywhere around the league. Everyone's being very cautious when it comes to these calf strains. So that's a question. The way he's played earlier this year, obviously it's in quasi protest of the way his coach wants to play the game of what's being asked of him. And again, that goes back to my. I don't think he gets it. Or maybe he does because as we've said many a time on the show in the NBA, the way you get traded, you don't hold out. You come up and you, you show up and you make a stink, you make a mess.

[David]

But doesn't that then seem like the worst possible fit for the Miami Heat, which fetishizes culture and players who get it? Like no one embodies the opposite of what you guys delusionally think is Heat culture. I think less. No one is less Heat culture for that reason than John Morant.

[Tony]

Yeah, but he's the guy that they.

[Dan Le Batard]

Want another Jimmy Butler. That's why they're not trading jobs.

[Stugotz]

Go ahead. Go ahead, Tony.

[Tony]

No, what I was going to say too, like the NBA has evolved into are you a three point shooter? You get a three point shot or you get a shot at the hoop. And every single season of Jaw's career, he's taken less and less shots at the hoop by percentage. And it's not close. Like it's big time jumps of 5%, 10%, 15% where at some point he was shooting 45 to 50% of his shots at the hoop. And now it's in like the 20s or 15s.

[David]

So it doesn't get to the basket anymore.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, it doesn't get to the basket. I'm talking about when, if, if all of a sudden John Morant, the, the, the distinction that the two of you are making between Zaz saying isn't any good anymore and Amin saying can still be transcendent. Not if he's not willing to go neck first to the rim 20 times a game, he can't be transcendent. I mean, if he's, if he's, if, if he's decided he's been paid enough that he doesn't want any more to fall on the floor and is going to take jump shots, his jump shot's not good enough for him to Be transcendent anymore.

[Pablo S.]

Yeah. I mean, and I think that all comes back down to his comfort level where he's at. And is he incapable of getting to the rim, or is this a conscious decision where he's making? But to go back to what David said, oh, they don't want another Jimmy Butler. They'll take another Jimmy Butler. If they're gonna get to the finals two times. If you're gonna compete at the highest.

[Dan Le Batard]

Level, bringing them to the finals.

[Pablo S.]

Hold on. You would have said the same thing about Jimmy Butler six years ago. You would have said the same exact. I know because everybody on this show said it when I told them he's a superstar, Butler's not a superstar. But the reality is talent wins in this league. And, Pablo, you said Miami fetishizes the, you know, rigidness and all that. You know what else they fetishize? Second chances. Reclamation projects. This. This organization.

[Tony]

It's like a third chance for Jacques they love.

[Pablo S.]

Well, it's second chance, because anything that happens in your first organization, you steamroll in everybody. When you get somewhere else, that's when you realize, oh, I'm expendable. And so that's usually when you get the best version of someone, is when they get to that next opportunity. But to answer the question, like, yeah, like, they really have a track record of getting guys that people have given up on, either because of injury or because of attitude or whatever it is, and getting pretty much a lot of success out of it.

[Dan Levator]

When I think about the holidays, I think about the little moments with my dog Roma, the ones that make the season feel special. Put a little elf ears on her. You know the deal. Take some selfies, post it for people that probably seen it too much. I love my dog. That's what I'm trying to get at. That's why I'm joining Chewy Claws, who's out here making pet's wishes come true. From November 4th through December 24th, you can share your pet's [e-mail] chewyclaus. It might come true. And it helps others, too. Every wish triggers a donation of five meals to shelters and rescues across the country. And if you share your pet's wish through the Chewy app, they'll double that donation. That's 10 meals for pets in need, just for participating. I've been using Chewy for years, legitimately. They've made my life easier for me and my dog, Roma. Food, toys, meds, all of it. Shows up fast. No stress, and being part of something like Chewy Claws, where A small thing like a wish can make a real impact. That's the kind of stuff I care about. Every pet deserves a wish come true. Send your pet's wish to chewy.com chewyclaws it might become a reality. Plus, your wish means Chuy will donate five meals to pets in need.

[Tony]

Hey guys, Tony here. The NBA on Prime is back with an exciting week of Emirates NBA cup action. The knockout rounds start with a quarterfinal double headers on Tuesday and Wednesday night. Then the quest for the cup heads to Vegas for a semifinal doubleheader on Saturday. It all culminates with the championship game next Tuesday night. If you're not a Prime member, that's not a problem. Sign up for a 30 day free trial to get started today. And Emirates NBA cup coverage continues this week only on prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com amazonprime for details.

[Dan Levator]

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[Stugotz]

Don lebatard While I was gone, a third Zagaki was born and I think I heard. Correct me if I'm wrong here, Jeremy trying to partake in a fourth Zagaki. And I am here for a future where I am surrounded by a chorus of clucking Zagakis stugats You know what it means when you have four Zagakis, Dan?

[Pablo S.]

You don't have one.

[Stugotz]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the stugats.

Getting the best version of them. I would say that probably Mike Ryan, who hasn't watched a whole lot of Heat basketball over the course of the last two years, I would guess that he probably was arguing that James Harden and Kyrie Irving weren't culture guys, and I imagine they would have done pretty well in Heat uniforms, both of them.

[Dan Levator]

Yeah, we've. We've done this before, I guess. Russell Westbrook, I think most people were kind of anticipating what I think some of the conversation around John Morant is, which is not only is he the occasional malcontent, but he's also highly reliant on his athleticism. I will say Russell Westbrook and John Morant, I mean, you can back this up. Built very differently. And I think Russell's athleticism probably lasted longer than most people would handicap, but I think that's a real thing. I think that culture fit is a real thing. But everybody would concede, as you have the Giannis and Ja thing, no matter who the Miami Heat would potentially give up if they were to acquire both of those players fit culture, all those discussions being had, no matter, they automatically become the favorite in the Eastern Conference.

[Pablo S.]

I think, Mike, you're asking, should I get the Lamborghini or should I get the Porsche? And you're saying, why not both?

[Dan Levator]

That's right.

[Pablo S.]

Okay, yeah, sure.

[Dan Levator]

Like, I think if you're worried about acquiring John Morant and what it does to your locker room culture, you're going to give up some pieces, maybe not as many as you would think, because his value. There is an argument to be had, like, guys like this might be the time to go after John Morant, as everyone's trying to keep their powder dry, trying to see what the offer might be for Giannis, now's a great time to show up like a thief in the night and take John Morant. But if you're going to give up plenty of assets to acquire Giannis and some assets to acquire John Morant. What is your locker room culture anyways? It's whatever your head coach dictates. Because. Because the guys that make up your culture are now gone.

[Pablo S.]

Who's the last guy who was a poor cultural fit out the gate in Miami that they.

[Stugotz]

That they traded for.

[Pablo S.]

Hasan Whiteside? And even that one was like, that was awesome.

[Stugotz]

Deon Waiters, Smush Parker.

[Pablo S.]

You see what I'm saying?

[Dan Le Batard]

Like, these are not Listing bad contracts.

[Stugotz]

Well, no bad attitudes.

[Pablo S.]

They're listing bad attitudes. But these are all people who are off the scrap heap when they go out and get people. And we had this conversation, I think, off air a couple of weeks ago. Dan, you remember this? We talk about Tim Hardaway. Was Tim Hardaway senior. Was he acquired at a lower rate because his knees were bad, or was it because he had a bad attitude?

[Stugotz]

He was benched.

[Pablo S.]

Right. Like, there was a vibe about Tim Hardaway. He came here to heat lifer, Right? So Alonzo Mourning had friction with Larry Johnson and forced his way out of Charlotte, came here heat lifer. They tend to get guys who the world has said it's too much of a headache, and those guys tend to buy in. Shaquille o' Neal came in the best shape of his life. Now, does it last forever?

[Stugotz]

No.

[Pablo S.]

We saw what happened with Jimmy. We saw what happened to Shaq. At some point, people wear out that welcome. But this idea that they would never get Ja because Ja doesn't fit. Heat culture, like, that's what he culture is all about, is getting guys who are outlaws and renegades and rogues.

[Stugotz]

Antoine Walker also probably qualifies in terms of some of that. I wanted to get into some sports business with Dave.

[David]

As before, we, the Boston Red Sox have traded for relief pitcher Johan Oviedo in exchange for prospect Yostin Son. The password, Garcia. David.

[Stugotz]

That is three days old. That is three days old. If you don't have breaking news, do not interrupt me with stuff that's not breaking news just so that you can do your character.

No, I don't know. You do a timely thing. You do not do a recycled thing from three days ago. If it's a breaking news sound respect. The breaking news.

[David]

Has joined the Dominican Republic for the World Baseball Classic.

[Stugotz]

Don't try and trick me by giving me a beloved Tampa Bay ray with your news item. Get in here with better news than.

[David]

That, didn't you, Dan?

[Stugotz]

I did like it, yes. As soon as I heard his name, I was very excited. He's exceptional. I love watching him play baseball. The thing that I wanted to get to with David is tell me where college football specifically is going when Georgia is seeking $390,000 in DEB damages from a defensive end who went to Missouri instead named Damon Wilson. And the Michigan State program is getting $401 million, 290 million of it for their athletic department. Where is all this headed when we're making up all the rules on this as we go along?

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, those are two different things. And we're not making up the rules. There are new rules that are in play. The lawsuit that's a day old. Listen to yesterday's. Nothing personal, but just know. So when you sign a contract, you gotta fulfill a contract. So just leave it at that. And if you don't, you can get sued when a player agrees to take money because they're now professionals, which is what Mike Wander. Whatever. What all of you wanted was for these kids to get paid. Well, guess what? Now you have to be a big boy. When you get paid, you have to do your job. And you can't transfer to Missouri, which this kid did. And now George is saying, give me my money back. There's a damages claim in the contract. Pay it reasonable. It's going to be an interesting lawsuit because these players need to pay attention. The other issue is we all try to. Every college, Miami does the same thing. Mike is a part of it. Everyone's raising money. It's called development. You're developing for to endow science chairs and to endow faculty positions. You're doing it to raise money for the athletic department, to raise money for the general fund that the president can run of a university. And when you get a big donation like that, it goes to the budget, a percentage, and a bunch of it goes into capital. Meaning we're going to use this money to build a facility. We're going to use this money to pay down debt. We're going to use this money to reinvest. And I want to point out the last thing about why these schools are all taking this much money. There's a new law that passed, and people are saying it only impacts Harvard and Yale, but it's not true. There's now a larger tax on earnings made by a college endowment. A college endowment is money that a college has to do financial aid for students. It's money that a college has to fund its operations. When your tax rate goes up, that's less money for.

Financial aid, less money to endow a science chair. So you have to go out and get boosters to give it, get famous alums to give it or anybody to give it. So that's why you're reading about more of these large gifts.

[Stugotz]

We are talking about the College Football Playoff ad nauseam. And I can't honestly fathom the idea that as recently as five years ago, if I had suggested to you guys, hey, you know, that Ohio State is going to have a payroll for its players of about 20 to 25 million dollars. It was five years ago. That wasn't that long ago. Once the money starts pouring in from boosters who want to do what Phil Knight did at Oregon where just rich people want to have athletic department toys. I told you yesterday, Missouri and Vanderbilt and Indiana and Texas Tech just had the best seasons in program history. Vanderbilt's been playing since 18. Like, because you can get in the game like that if you have somebody who has money.

[David]

But the thing that I am worried about is that in that search for more money that David is describing, at a certain point you run out of wealthy alumni who are there to give gifts. We're there to donate. Never.

[Dan Le Batard]

Then you have their kids get into the school.

[David]

No, but David, the whole point is that there are competitive advantages that some schools have that others will not. It's not an even playing field in which everybody has access to the same class of booster alumnus. And so the thing that's happening next, which we've talked about in the sporting class for months now, is private equity. And what happens then when they are now operating every program like an actual straight up business in which you can invest. And if the people who are putting the money into your program are investing, Dan, not because they love it because they went to the school or because they're delusional about what it brings to them in terms of ego and glory, but because they see this as a money making operation. There will be decisions made when you're, when you're a stakeholder in a business of college sports where you're making the call, you're putting pressure on the athletic director and the coaches to do things. Not because it's going to help you win, but because you want to increase the profit margin of the business, which is a different conflict of interest.

[Dan Le Batard]

And is it worse than AI this is just so bad. Everything's bad.

[Stugotz]

I'm not interested actually in talking about the scary portion of it. I'm actually interested in just asking you if we've gone in five years from you can't imagine these guys being paid to Ohio State is your champion and they've got a payroll of between 20 and 25 million. If that's what's happened in five years, I think we'd all agree that to be the champion of the second biggest sport that we have in America, any program would pay $25 million for that. Where's this going to be in five years? Like if that's the acceleration rate for the first five years, where are we going to be in 10?

[Dan Le Batard]

It will be a professional league. It's what I've been saying, what will.

[Stugotz]

The dollar amounts be?

[Dan Le Batard]

You have a payroll. It'll be a payroll of what the revenues can withstand. Could it be $100 million, $150 million payroll for a college team? Of course.

[David]

But then the question is, do you ever cap the salaries? Right. Which means you have to collectively bargain with employees, which means you need contracts, which means you need UN back in the place that has pro sports also dealing with the same shit we've been talking about for decades. Like it's becoming the same thing.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yep.

[David]

And that is not great. I wanted it. I didn't want it in this way. I think it's just untenable to not pay the athletes.

[Dan Le Batard]

You're too much. You only want what you can have. That's perfect for you. It's ridiculous.

[Stugotz]

That's right. He didn't realize that AI was a threat until he was fooled by a cat. Cake take. We're gonna kick it back over to Miami here for the final hour. I want to thank you guys again for your love and for your friendship. And I will tell the audience as well if you're interested in being charitable during this holiday season. If you want to make Christmas for some kids who would not necessarily have toys otherwise, Levitard AF is doing a toy drive, and we're doing it until December 15th. And it's just really easy to go to Levitard AF and the Amazon wish list is there for you. And you will be going directly through a charity that we have vetted you were you will be getting directly to kids. Your money will go to making kids happier this Christmas. So please help us with that as we go up to December 15th. Thank you, Pablo. Thank you, David. I love you both. Miami will take it from here.