Hour 1: Tony Happens To Know

Summary

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The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Hour 1: "Tony Happens To Know"

Date: October 30, 2025
Location: The Elser Hotel, Downtown Miami

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Episode Overview

This hour, Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, Chris Cody, and the crew are joined by Pablo Torre for a winding, irreverent, and investigative episode that pivots from lighthearted candy debates to the underbelly of NBA gambling scandals, federal indictments, and questions of accountability. It’s a classic “Le Batard Show” blend of comic banter and surprising journalistic depth, as they dissect Pablo Torre’s latest reporting on “Pablo Torre Finds Out,” highlighting ties between NBA figures and a sprawling federal gambling investigation.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

Candy Takes & Trustworthiness (01:24–04:04)

• Chris Cody recounts meeting someone whose favorite candy is Almond Joy, sparking a debate about candy preference credibility.
• Dan admits he’s never tried Almond Joy, leading to playful ribbing about his unadventurous eating and suspicion of coconut.
• The team contrasts Almond Joy with Mounds and bickers over what counts as a trustworthy favorite candy.
• Memorable Poll Prompts:
  • "Can you trust someone who mentions Almond Joy as their favorite?"
  • "Do you know anyone who picks Raisinets or Almond Joy as their favorite movie candy?"

“Gooning” Wordplay & Misunderstandings (04:09–05:37)

• Pablo Torre tries to introduce the online concept of “gooning,” sparking comedic confusion and a mock debate about its meaning.
• Dan jokes that as a now-health-conscious food observer rather than eater, he’s turned into a “food gooner”—watching others enjoy what he can’t have.

NBA Scandal Reporting: Pablo Torre’s Deep Dive (07:11–24:20)

Congress Set to Question the NBA (07:54–09:36)

• Pablo Torre (07:54):

  “We talked to two Congress people... They actively plan to make Adam Silver testify in front of Congress… what the NBA knew and when they knew it.”

• The crew discusses the potential consequences for the NBA as Congress looks into the Terry Rozier and Chauncey Billups-linked gambling and poker game scandals.

The Chauncey Billups & Ty Lue Web (09:48–12:11)

• Pablo details Ty Lue’s proximity to indicted figures, including longtime friend Damon Jones and Chauncey Billups, and lays out a timeline of NBA and poker game intersections.
• Clippers have declined to respond to requests for comment on the story.

Stugotz’s “Tony Happens To Know” Segment (11:37–12:11)

• Stugotz (11:53):

  “I have it from incredible sources that Ty Lue is the best gambler in the NBA, hands down. Coaches, players, anything... Ty Lue is the champion.”

[Stugotz’s comedic, folklore-style delivery pokes fun at the show's inside-joke culture about “knowing things.”]

Clarifying “Ensnared” vs. "Adjacent" in Scandal (16:02–17:34)

• Chris Cody and Tony (Tony being off-mic) debate Ty Lue’s involvement—was he "ensnared" or just "adjacent"?
• Pablo Torre (16:18):

  “I don’t think he is ensnared, and I don’t think he's adjacent. I think he was present. He was in the room.”

• Ultimately, Pablo suggests Ty Lue is more than adjacent but less than ensnared—a “character witness, perhaps.”

Inside the Scaffold: How Two Scandals Are Linked (21:07–24:20)

• Pablo lays out connections between two parallel federal crackdowns:
  • Operation Royal Flush (rigged poker games, with Chauncey Billups as alleged beneficiary)
  • Operation Nothing But Bet (NBA betting, with Terry Rozier and others)
• Central figures (“Flappy/Flapper Poker” Amar Awade and “Sugar” Shane Hennin) bridge both, orchestrating betting and poker cons with league-adjacent personalities.

The NBA, the Heat, and Terry Rozier Fallout (24:34–27:40)

• The group reviews fallout from the Rozier investigation—a flagged game, subsequent trade, and questions about the NBA’s ongoing internal probe.
• Pablo Torre (24:50):

  “They did not find the smoking gun that would allow them to take action, but they never stopped investigating… If I am the Miami Heat, a question that I have is if your investigation never actually stopped, why did we, the Miami Heat, not know that there was an investigation in the first place?”

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Character Portraits and Shady Figures

Sugar Shane Hennin: Central Casting for Crime (35:09–38:48)

• The crew marvels at “Sugar” Shane Hennin: gambler, social media oversharer, pool-hall stabber, government informant, and central figure in both NBA gaming and poker scandals.
• Chris Cody (38:03):

  “This dude is living his life to the... You don’t need to tell me anything else about a person than the phrase ‘stabbing dudes in the neck in a pool hall.’”

• Hennin continues to circulate in NBA-adjacent spaces, even courtside, despite being indicted.

The Slippery Definitions of Involvement (31:19–34:05)

• They debate whether someone like Chauncey Billups could have unwittingly been involved (“I just got lucky!” vs. “You’d have to be willfully blind not to notice the fix.”).
• Pablo outlines the weight of evidence collected—texts, group chats, game footage—making “innocent bystander” implausible.

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Lighter Moments & Oddball Anecdotes

Dan Le Batard’s Gum Phobia Origin Story (40:40–41:38)

• Dan explains he’s never chewed gum because as a child he touched chewed gum under his desk and was so traumatized he swore off gum for life.
• Dan Le Batard (41:38):

  “I was scarred by that. It’s disgusting. Why do people do that? … I’m not eating that. Come on.”

Mob Lingo & La Cosa Nostra Etymology (42:40–44:31)

• The show riffs on the phrase "La Cosa Nostra," how mobsters intentionally kept terms vague to elude law enforcement, and why that phrase persists in pop culture.

Is Pablo Torre in Danger? (44:20–45:37)

• Lighthearted speculation on whether Pablo, digging into NBA and mafia scandals, is in danger—“Has he received any ‘let this one go, kid’ calls?”
• Chris Cody (45:02):

  “You don’t know what you’re messing with, boy.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|------------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 07:54 | Pablo Torre | “They actively plan to make Adam Silver testify in front of Congress... what the NBA knew...”| | 11:53 | Stugotz | “Ty Lue is the best gambler in the NBA, hands down. ... Ty Lue is the champion.” | | 16:18 | Pablo Torre | “I don’t think he is ensnared, and I don’t think he's adjacent. I think he was present.” | | 24:50 | Pablo Torre | “They did not find the smoking gun... but they never stopped investigating.” | | 38:03 | Chris Cody | “You don’t need to tell me anything else... than ‘stabbing dudes in the neck in a pool hall.’”| | 41:38 | Dan Le Batard | “I was scarred by that. It’s disgusting. Why do people do that? … I’m not eating that.” | | 44:49 | Chris Cody | "Tony's basically John Candy at JFK, sweating hard and telling Pablo... you need to let this one go."|

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Candy Trustworthiness & Almond Joy Debate: 01:24–04:04
• Gooning, Food Voyeurism, and Raisinets: 04:09–07:11
• Pablo Torre on Congressional Hearings & NBA Accountability: 07:54–09:36
• Ty Lue, Damon Jones, and Chauncey Billups Network: 09:48–12:11
• "Tony Happens To Know" / Best Gambler Segment: 11:37–12:11
• "Ensnared" vs. "Adjacent" (Chauncey & Ty Lue involvement): 16:02–17:34
• Connecting NBA Betting & Poker Games: 21:07–24:20
• Terry Rozier/NBA/Heat Investigation Fallout: 24:34–27:40
• Deep Dive on "Sugar Shane" Hennin: 35:09–38:48
• Dan’s Gum Aversion Story: 40:40–41:38
• La Cosa Nostra/Etymology Discussion: 42:40–44:31
• Is Pablo in Danger? Lighthearted Paranoia: 44:31–45:37

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Episode Tone & Style

The conversation effortlessly swings between sharp investigative reporting (with Pablo Torre’s carefully sourced revelations) and the offbeat, self-mocking, sometimes absurd tangents that define the Le Batard Show. The camaraderie is palpable, with playful mockery, cultural references, and in-jokes underscoring even the most serious subject matter. Listeners unfamiliar with the NBA poker scandal will come away intrigued, and those tuning in for the jokes are never far from a laugh.

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Summary for New Listeners

This episode is a quintessential Le Batard mix: funny and odd yet filled with inside information you’ll hear nowhere else. It covers everything from the sincerity of candy preferences, new internet slang, and Dan’s weirdest eating habits to the labyrinthine NBA betting and poker scandals that now intertwine players, coaches, the mafia, Congress, and hapless social-media informants. All of it is unraveled with deep reporting, skepticism, and good-natured mockery, making heavy topics as approachable, weird, and entertaining as ever.

Transcript

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[Chris Cody]

David Sampson was truly enraged that none of his equipment worked. David Sampson lost his sense of taste and smell during the pandemic. But before he lost his sense of taste and smell, he was somebody who I was always mocking because he likes black licorice. Chris Cody met someone the other day who identified their favorite candy as Almond Joy. And that's not a person who can be trusted. Like that's not a person who can be trusted.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't think I've ever had an Almond Joy.

[Chris Cody]

You are so strange. Whatever, man. Every time we talk about anything, get.

[Dan Le Batard]

Him an Almond Joy.

[Chris Cody]

Get him on Olive.

[Dan Le Batard]

I've had one either.

[Chris Cody]

Get him.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, get a couple of them.

[Chris Cody]

I too would like to try.

[Dan Le Batard]

You call it Almond Joy, is it?

[Chris Cody]

Yes, an Almond Joy, by the way.

[Dan Le Batard]

And you say, I met them. They're in our midst. It's someone that works here. They're off air. But they said it and I was just like, that's crazy.

[Chris Cody]

Put it on the poll at LeBatard show. Can you trust someone who mentions Almond Joy as their favorite? It can't be your favorite.

[Dan Le Batard]

Almond Joy is very good, but I resent it because it only comes in milk chocolate versus Mounds, which is dark chocolate. Now give me the almond inside the mound. Now we're cooking with gas.

[Stugats]

Almond jokes got nuts.

[Dan Le Batard]

Mounds don't. None of that was weird. Me never trying Almond Joy.

[Chris Cody]

No, I. I'm just saying that. You keep saying you the things that you have never tried. It's a long list so far. You're not a very adventurous eater.

[Dan Le Batard]

I just. I know what I can look at something. I know what I like. I know I could see it. I'm like, I don't like that. I know.

[Chris Cody]

Chocolate almonds you think is something you wouldn't like.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, but there's something else in it, too. It's not just.

[Stugats]

It's coconut.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, I don't like that. That's mounds. I knew I don't like that.

[Chris Cody]

Mounds is the coconut. Almond Joy. No coconut.

[Dan Le Batard]

But Almond Joy has coconut too. It also has an almond in it. The distinction is the milk chocolate versus dark almond versus no almond.

[Stugats]

Please keep up with me.

[Chris Cody]

As I said, I've never had one. Can I. It's called. It's pronounced Joy.

[Dan Le Batard]

Almond Joy.

[Chris Cody]

Pablo Torre has another Pablo Torrey Finds out exclusive. We have been making fun of the fact that he seems to have modulated and pixelated somebody who has been telling that same story without. Without Pablo Mondo you. Without the modulation.

[Dan Le Batard]

We have important stuff to do here. He just got an Almond Joy or the pixelation.

[Chris Cody]

You're going to try it. Okay, hold on a second, Pablo. We'll get to your reporting in just a sec.

[Dan Le Batard]

Coconut and Alm chocolate candy bar. Tony, Coconut.

[Stugats]

I told you. Do you like coconut?

[Dan Le Batard]

Not really.

[Chris Cody]

Pablo, do you have any opinions on this as we wait for this?

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, I'm a Raisin Nuts guy, personally. Strong, sneaky, strong candy as your favorite. Yes. Number one draft pick. I don't know. By the way. By the way, can I get you guys. Have you guys talked about gooning yet? Have you guys done that conversation? What are you doing here?

[Chris Cody]

What are you.

[Stugats]

What are you trying to do around here? Buddy, this is a family program.

[Chris Cody]

Hey, guys, I don't know if that.

[Dan Le Batard]

Means what you think it means.

[Chris Cody]

I don't think you're using that correctly.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, no.

[Stugats]

He's using it right. He's using it right.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't think. I couldn't tell if Chris was hitting the sound for Zaz or for me, because in my case, the gooning I'm referring to is truly like there's a rainbow coalition of people who are gooning. Gooning. Can someone explain to Chris what gooning is so I don't have to do that. No, that's not what you think it is. It's more just the way you sound saying it like, rather than what it actually means. Pablo. Okay, I can spin Chris Cody's lecturing me on sound white. Proceed of mean.

[Chris Cody]

It's when you're a really, really big fan of the Houston Rockets and Alen.

[Dan Le Batard]

Shangon in particular, the Gooner.

[Chris Cody]

When you're really into that, you're like.

[Dan Le Batard]

Hey, you guys want to go goon?

[Chris Cody]

That means like, you're going to go watch Al Goon.

[Stugats]

And everybody's like, yeah, let's goon together.

[Chris Cody]

Nope.

[Dan Le Batard]

Sometimes you watch the film.

[Stugats]

Daz found something out, didn't he? He found out he was wrong about the Almond Joy.

[Dan Le Batard]

I'm gonna tell you something, Dave. Damage track. I'm glad he mentioned that. Almond Joy, that's good candy bar. Really?

[Stugats]

You, like, suck Mississippi State in the Almond Joy.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's a good coconut. I like that. Can I. Can I explain why I'm talking about gooning? Maybe another Zaz reviewing that.

[Chris Cody]

That would be great, because I've gotten lost in the weeds here on Chris Cody not knowing what gooning meant and me not really understanding why it is that you're using gooning in this way.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's a fair question. Gooning is the process of, like, edging without letting yourself come to a release. It's a thing that Harper's magazine wrote a guy. I deserve the Sounder for that. It's a pretty white reference. Harper's magazine wrote about Goonin.

[Chris Cody]

Harper's magazine wrote about Goon.

[Dan Le Batard]

Is it Zach Harper's magazine? I don't know. Somehow. Somehow, one of the oldest publications has a sensibility of Zach Harper. This week at least. The reason I say that is because Dan, who's judging everyone's, like, food predilections, but does not eat any of this stuff himself anymore. He's like a food gooner. He's just, like, watching everyone else eat this stuff, but he cannot let himself actually enjoy that.

[Chris Cody]

I think I would find something more objectionable than learning that someone in our midst thinks that Almond Almond Joy is the best of all the candies. But to choose Raisinets is just crazy.

[Dan Le Batard]

Like, to choose raisin, that's the chocolate.

[Chris Cody]

Raisin is the best of all the candies. You can't know another person who would say that. There's not another person you know that says that.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's. That's the opinion of a man whose brain has been addled by his food gooning. I regularly enjoy all of these selections. You merely remember what it used to be.

[Chris Cody]

I love, I love Grayson that I just don't know. I've never met anybody who would say that that's the greatest of the candies. It's not even the greatest of the movie theater candies.

[Dan Le Batard]

What are you going movie theater, watch.

[Stugats]

A bunch of Crunch.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's easy. Reese's Pieces. Come on, Zaz. Yup, yup. Too hot on this one. Snickers with almonds in them. Come on.

[Chris Cody]

At Lebatard show, do you know anybody who would choose Raisinets as their favorite candy? And also put on the LeBatard show poll? Do you know anybody who would choose Almond Joy as the favorite of their candies? Getting back to Pablo Torrey finds out. And some of your, some of your very thorough, thorough reporting. Again, more than 20 sources, again, thousands of documents, again, months of research, you've gone into the thicket. You know, some things I think that not even the FBI knows. I might guess that you have some information that is not widely known. What did you think were the most interesting parts of the tale that you spun today?

[Dan Le Batard]

So I'll lead with the sort of big picture macro concern the NBA should have, which is that we talked to two Congress people, one member of the House of Representatives, Yvette Clark, Democrat from New York, the other one, Brian Schatz, the Democratic senator from Hawaii. And what they say is that they actively plan to make Adam Silver testify in front of Congress to give answers to hard questions about what the NBA knew and when they knew it, which might be relevant, I dare say, to the NBA team that is across the street from your studio. They want to know, did the NBA actually investigate this? Did they know anything about what the FBI wound up finding and what does it mean if they did or did it? That is something that they really do want to take seriously. And of course, sports is always like political theater. But in this case, the argument has, I think, real ramifications for one of the last places in American life that has to pretend that rules matter. So Congress, Capitol Hill is coming for the NBA in terms of holding the them to an accountability that few others I think have the powers to do, journalists like myself unfortunately included, that's kind of the ultimate check on sports, is them taking interest in that. And so I begin with that part because I think the Heat with the Terry Rozier scenario, which we report on extensively, and by the way, Amin, who's there somewhere, Amin is my running mate in this episode and he is wearing ridiculous sunglasses for most of the episode. In case you were wondering how is Amin going to bring his gravitas to the proceedings, it's by wearing insane reflective sunglasses. Yeah, all of this is exhaustive and real and should be a concern.

[Chris Cody]

I'm super surprised that you chose politics and Congress as the most interesting thing in your pod. I didn't think that that was the most interesting thing. Not to say it's not interesting. I'm just surprised that that's what you chose.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, the reason I choose it, though, is because I guess I'm sort of like accountability brained. I have had the experience reporting these stories where I can give you chapter and verse on the fact that Ty is a recurring character in this story in ways that have been not yet disclosed until this episode. I can tell you that we have footage at the World Series of Poker in which Ty Liu is watching a friend of his have a great victory while sitting on the rail, the equivalent of courtside at a playoff game at the World Series of Poker last year. And the guy who is sitting next to him celebrating their mutual friendship with this poker player is Damon Jones. I can tell you that Ty Lu is a recurring character at the Aria High Limit Bar alongside Damon Jones. And by the way, Damon Jones calls Ty Lue his best friend. I will give you one guess as to who Ty Lu says is his best friend, because it's not Damon Jones, it is Chauncey Billups. And Ty Lu happened to hire both of those guys to his stabs when he got head jobs in the NBA. Tyloo also was there at the April 2019 allegedly rigged poker game where Chauncey Billups was not merely the whale at the table, but according to the federal indictment, someone who was cooperating as a member of the cheating team with effectively some of the most unsavory characters to occur in the history of sports and scandal. And so there's that. There's just like that part. And we requested comment from the Clippers a week ago. They have not responded to our request. So that's another part of it that I think is probably worth mentioning because we don't know exactly the depth of Ty Lu's involvement. I'd love to continue to find that out, but, you know, I go to accountability. Like, what does any of this matter? You know? And I think you need some sort of, like, actual thing that puts some accountability into the proceedings.

[Stugats]

Dannon. This might be my first one, but I happen to know something. What he happens to know.

[Dan Le Batard]

Great Scott.

[Stugats]

He happens to know. He happens to know, gather everyone, get the children he happens to know.

[Dan Le Batard]

So wise.

[Stugats]

I have it from incredible sources that Ty Lue is the best gambler in the NBA, hands down. Coaches, players, anything that you can think of. In a competition setting, Ty Lue is the champion.

[Chris Cody]

The best or the biggest. Like the best that he wins all.

[Stugats]

The time that he wins. He knows what he's doing and continues to win.

[Dan Le Batard]

This is the same journalism, right?

[Stugats]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[Stugats]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Dan Lebatard.

[Stugats]

Pablo leads all of podcasting in reading while smiling. If you listen to ESPN daily, he.

[Dan Le Batard]

Sounds like he's having the time of his life.

[Stugats]

Stugats coming up next. I'm going to tell you the savannah bananas are changing.

[Dan Le Batard]

How do you know? How do you know I'm smiling?

[Stugats]

That's how I found my vocal range. Sometimes I just say, savannah bananas.

[Dan Le Batard]

Savannah bananas. This is the D? Levatar show with the st.

[Chris Cody]

Can you give me Pablo a ruling? We were having an argument before I said, tyloo is now ensnared in this by Pablo. Torre finds out and Tony said he's merely adjacent. Who's closer to correct me saying ensnared or Tony saying adjacent?

[Dan Le Batard]

Ooh, that's a great vocabulary challenge. I don't think he is ensnared, and I don't think he is adjacent. I think he was present. He was in the room. He was. What's. What's a fun, legal sounding word for. You were there and your best friend has been indicted by the FBI and the federal government. And the question is whether you were aware of any of the proceedings there. You were in the room where it.

[Chris Cody]

Happened from the Hamilton play. If you're going to be highfalutin about it, you were.

[Dan Le Batard]

You were you were around that a character witness. Dano.

[Chris Cody]

That sounds like adjacent. Around sounds like adjacent. It sounds like you're signing with Tony.

[Dan Le Batard]

Hold on, hold on. Adjacent's kind of like there's a room in which this. Well, actually, you know, there were multiple games going on. I should say that Ty Lu didn't play in the game, that Taunty Billups was allegedly cheating, but he showed up and was marketed to people to play in the game because, hey, Chauncey and Ty Lou are coming through. So, you know, God, am I going to agree with Tony as. As to, like the Geographic.

[Stugats]

Talk to me, buddy.

[Dan Le Batard]

Talk to me of Ty Lou. No, he was. He was. He was.

[Stugats]

He's looking for it. It's adjacent. He's looking for it.

[Chris Cody]

He doesn't want to agree with you.

[Stugats]

I started listening to your episodes. I love all the NBA episodes that you do. I've been your biggest proponent. I've figured out a couple things about you, but we'll have that offline.

[Dan Le Batard]

What does that mean?

[Stugats]

I find things out.

[Dan Le Batard]

What does that mean?

[Stugats]

So you take a lot of time to figure things out. I take very short time to figure out.

[Chris Cody]

What do you make of the Clippers not even returning?

[Dan Le Batard]

The opposite of a Gooner in that regard. Exactly right.

[Stugats]

I'm a finisher.

[Chris Cody]

What do you make?

[Dan Le Batard]

Right to the point of the Clippers.

[Chris Cody]

Not even bothering to return your messages this time?

[Dan Le Batard]

I mean, part of me is just like, I get it. You know, it's just not fun to get texts from me or my producers at this point here for the Los Angeles Clippers. I will say, though, that, like, I did not go looking for it. This is legitimately part of the story. I mean, Chauncey Billup, again, Chauncey, just to understand, like, what. So Tyler lives in Vegas, right. He gets that. He was an assistant on the Clippers coaching staff at the time that this was happening. The April 2019 game. Chauncey's next job, because Chauncey was working at ESPN at the time, April 2019. His next job that fall was to become a team broadcaster for the Clippers. His job after that was to get hired by Ty Lue as an assistant coach for the Clippers. And so, look, there's just, I think, a frustration, understandably, about, like, whether it feels like I'm directly doing this because I just really want to feud with the Clippers. To quote one of the most inappropriate quotes in this context I can imagine, you know, Plymouth Rock landed on me. I didn't go. This is. It happened to me. Pablo S.

[Chris Cody]

Juju is disgusted with you right now. He's just. He's just. I don't. I don't know that I've ever seen Juju quite this disappointed in somebody.

[Dan Le Batard]

You know, it's Thanksgiving almost. You know, I'm just thinking festively. Pablo, is it.

[Chris Cody]

Are you ever tickled by the idea of people reacting negatively to you announcing. We reached out and we didn't get a comment because I see a lot of this on Twitter. People are, what did you expect? I'm like, yeah, that's journalism, you dumb asses. You have to give them an opportunity to respond to the allegations.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, yeah, I reach out. Kevin Garnett was mentioned to me and we reported this as another face card. He showed up at a game in Los Angeles that was run by some of the same people who are mentioned in this indictment. We went out and reached out to Kevin Garnett, and a source close to Kevin Garnett clarified to me. And this is in the episode that Kevin Garnett thought he was going to an after party and exited the poker game early. Right. So I'm like, I want to give everybody the opportunity to say what their version of the story is, because it's not me, as much as there has now been literally a cartoon of me, like, hiding in a locker with a notepad. The problem with this NBA poker intersection, this Venn diagram, is that it's full of other people who are, of course, incredibly messy when it comes to sharing stories about the ways in which they believe they were scammed. And so it's just a bigger problem that's hard to contain in the poker world. By the way, like, to the question of what does Tony know and when did he know it? Yeah. Ty Lue is very well known as a guy who loves poker. He's around the Aria High Limit Bar like these are. Again, nothing wrong with that. Until the point at which your best friend gets caught up in something that is tied to La Cosa Nostra as a thing. You know, that surprised me as well. Frankly, I didn't go into this looking for that, but again, here we are.

[Chris Cody]

Let's get people caught up. For those who do not know, who have not been following any of this very closely, please, first for the people. And you can get this entire thicket of the innards of this scandal at Pablo Torre finds out he has more information than anyone else doing mainstream reporting on this or any kind of reporting that I've seen on this. First, tie the two things together. They're two different things. Or they appear to be two different things that are put together in a way that don't fit. But you link them. It is the Terry Rozier betting scandal and it is the Chauncey Billups rigged poker game scandal. Those seem to be different things. You tie them together. How? Operation Royal Flush and Operation Nothing But Bet.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's right. The roots of them, I mean, we, we reported pretty exhaustively and I think it's worth going back and watching that episode if you have an extra hour today. By the way, the July episode that I mean and I did with Tom Haverstrough, we identified one of these characters, Amar Awade, and that guy is one of the key characters in this story. That is a dude who was infamously, now allegedly, I should say more specifically allegedly cheating at poker. He's also one of the guys in the original JohnTay Porter group chat. He was the guy allegedly that helped come up with the idea of, hey, johntae Porter, one way to pay off your debts is feed us inside information so we can bet on your unders. Relatedly, the johntae Porter Group chat, the way that that was allegedly orchestrated was through a guy named Shane Hennin who set up a network of quote unquote straw betters these other people around America through whom they could make bets. Lots and lots of bets. So that's the John Porter story. Shane Hennan, who is a real key character in this whole thing that we spend a lot of time on in this episode, July episode, Amar Awade, otherwise known for the federal government as Flappy and Flapper Poker. That guy is here in the indictment for the cheating at poker stuff. Shane Hennan, the guy who I just described to you, sugar, Shane Hennan, a guy who has his own long, long, long criminal history that is also frankly hilarious at times and that's chronicled as well. That guy is the character named in both. He is named in both the NBA betting scandal indictment and in the rigged poker game scandal and indictment. And so the roots of this, right, when you're talking about those bets, when you're talking about the Ty Lu alleged inside information stuff, when you're. Excuse me, when you're talking about the Damon Jones alleged inside information stuff, when you're talking about the Terry Rozier alleged inside information stuff, when you're talking about the Chauncey Billup's alleged inside information stuff that is all being run through the same characters from the poker side of things, these are two separate indictments. What they are not is two separate stories. This is one messy, big ass story in which the core of it are these characters that are being revealed as. Yeah. Connected to the Italian Mafia and who you might remember from the time John Porter got banned for life. They're still here in this story.

[Chris Cody]

That's a good cartoon. It's a good cartoon. You look sinister there. You look like you're up to no good. Kawhi looks confused. Steve Ballmer looks enraged. You look a little bit evil.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's why they didn't text you back, bro. This picture right here. Hard to blame you. Hard to blame you. I am worried, by the way. I am worried that, like, I can't just call anyone anymore and just be like, hey, what's up, Pablo? If you heard anything from the Heat, how they feel about this? Have. Do they want, like, their pick back? Do they feel that the Hornets screwed them, that the NBA screwed them? Do you know anything about how they feel? So, look, Barry Jackson at the Herald, as you guys know, he's been on top of that, right? So read what he's reporting. I would say the AP also has some good reporting on that in terms of how the NBA is sort of splitting the baby here. We're going to put this stuff into sort of an account instead of having to actually pay Rozier directly during this season. The stuff that I am fascinated by, though, that we report in this episode about the NBA's investigation into Terry Rozier. Right. So to recap, Tara Rogier's attorney, a guy named Jim Trustee, who not coincidentally happens to be a former Trump attorney, that's part of the story here, too. Like, what do you do when you're under indictment by the government? You try to go and perhaps get people who are connected to the White House. I digress. What Jim Trustee says is that the NBA cleared Terry Rozier. Right. But the NBA league source at the league office told us is that the NBA never stopped its investigation into Rozier. They just never found a smoking gun. Using language that may be familiar to you in my previous aspiration investigation. So in other words, they did not find the smoking gun that would allow them to take action, but they never stopped investigating. They hired, in fact, I am told, a firm that is familiar to anybody who's followed my other reporting, a firm named Wachtel Lipton. Right. And so what happens is not that they stop the investigation, according to the league office source we spoke to, but they'd merely just allow the federal government to take it from there. If I am the Miami Heat, a question that I have is if your investigation never actually stopped, why did we, the Miami Heat, not know that there was an investigation in the first place? Right. The illegal, sort of, the allegedly illegal unusual betting activity. March 23, 2023, I believe that's a Terry Rozier game where there was unusual betting activity. That game was flagged almost immediately by the gambling operators and credit to them for doing it. The NBA was informed. The NBA opens the investigation, they do nothing. They allow Roger to be traded for a first rounder and more. Right. That's the story of the Heat simultaneously. The reason I started with the politics stuff is that the reason this became a problem was because the federal government, the doj, the FBI, the Eastern District of New York, they said, we're not letting up on this. We're going to continue to investigate. And the results of their investigation are in their indictments. The NBA's investigation, of course, sort of vaporized into nothing. And now everyone's trying to say what they did or did not know and when they did or did not know it. All of which is of interest to people who serve in Congress.

[Chris Cody]

In Washington D.C. barry Jackson tweeted this morning about Pablo's new rosier reporting. It makes it all the more outrageous that the Heat wasn't told pre trade.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, I mean, that's a real question. A real question for them to have, I dare say.

[Stugats]

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[Dan Le Batard]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Don levotard Cheaters never prosper. Stugats I ain't cheating. This is the Dan Levatar show with the stugats.

[Chris Cody]

Pablo Going back to the the Operation Royal Flush One of the things I've thought about a lot since we recorded the episode is is there a logical Explanation. Right. This isn't like the, the CBA where it has to be a rational explanation.

[Dan Le Batard]

Like this is we're talking about criminal court here.

[Chris Cody]

So a logical explanation that Chauncey could.

[Dan Le Batard]

Have unwittingly been involved in this goings on. So it's a great question. And there's something I didn't include in the episode, which I think we'll get to eventually when I dragging me back into a studio to talk about this. Perhaps there is evidence that the federal government collected in which there is a group chat. Again, a lot of it is group chats. A lot of it's messy. A lot of it's like, you know, just stuff that people wrote down at the time. And in those texts, you have coordination by the cheating team in that April 2019 game. And what they advise, for instance, is to watch, watch Amar Awade, who is referred to as the Steph Curry of cheating at poker in terms of how to signal and how to behave during the game. And so what the government at least is clear about is that they have evidence and they have talked to people who suggest that it is really, really hard, if not outright documentary evidence wise, impossible to pretend to claim. I should say, that you were playing in a rigged poker game in which you were winning hands. Hands that we report one specific hand for the poker degenerates out there. We report one specific hand that a guy who played against chauncey in that April 2019 game lost on. That's framed as a 10 out of 10 on the suspicious scale. It's really hard to claim that you, Chauncey Billups, won that hand, played that hand as you did, and you didn't know that the game was rigged in your favor, allegedly. Likewise, there is just this coordination of like, man, all these, the Shane Hennins and the Amar Awadays who are there to buy the technology, right? We talked about the Deckmaster rig shuffling machine. We talk about the sunglasses, the marked cards, the sort of fake cell phones that you put at the table as we put up the shot of the hand allegedly that Chauncey played in which he had nothing but the river card came in and he won that thing to a degree that haunted the person that he beat. It just feels like if you're playing with these people more than once and you're winning hands like this more than once, it's really hard to say that you were just a bystander, that you were merely around in that case, in that indictment, they make it very clear that he knew more than he would like to admit counterpoint.

[Chris Cody]

Could Chauncey's rebuttal be, I'm not a good poker player. I don't know what I'm doing.

[Dan Le Batard]

I just got lucky. Or Austin Powers. I like to live dangerously. I look, this is why I frame it in the way that I do. I want everyone's response. I want Chauncey Billup's attorney, which we quote, who we quote in the episode to say we're fighting this. Chauncey would never jeopardize his freedom on anything, let alone a game like poker. Right. So he should be able to claim that on the record and we quote him as such. I think that the more that he plays and that is documented and the more that he's playing with these people who are truly on the evidence shown to be unreliable narrators about whether or not they were rigging these games. There's a lot of evidence that suggests at the very least these people were doing that. Some of which we have collected and we present to you. I just think it's extraordinarily unlikely that that would be a clubhouse leading theory as to how this all went down.

[Chris Cody]

Tell me more and tell the listeners more about Sugar Shane Hennin.

[Dan Le Batard]

I mean, the guy, I mean, compared him in the episode to Carl Pilkington. I don't know if that means anything to anybody else in the room here, but that's dead on. That's my gimmick. He's. He's a guy who has an exhaustive social media history. A lot of what we did for three months was just follow this guy on Instagram. And he is a guy, when you go down the rabbit hole with him, he says, you know, like, I love lgbt. And then the meme is Latinas. What does it mean?

[Chris Cody]

What's gambling? Gambling, Tax evasion. Was it betting? Was b. The.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, yeah, it was. It was. It was Latinas, gambling, beer and tax evasion. He's a pretty good follow, honestly, on that front. I'm like, that's pretty funny. So he's that kind of a guy. He films himself all of the time, it turns out violating what appear to be the agreed upon legal rules on his supervised release. He's out on bail a lot. He has a history of both stabbing dudes in the neck at a pool hall back in Pennsylvania, as well as being literally, as you reveal in a table read with Amin, in which he gets to play the role of Sugar Shane Hennin. He is correct, actually, someone been an avowed government informant. And so the question is like, where is this Information coming from. Is it coming from me? It's not coming from me. One of the sources of information very clearly has been two of the people I would say that we've named already whose text messages they have, whose icloud they have access. And of course that can be done merely through a warrant. But it seems like they have a depth of information with these people and their cell phones and their group chats that suggests that they were getting information, according to the documentary evidence that we are pointing to from some of the people who have previously cooperated with the government before. So that's an active parlor game, right? Like, is sugar Shane Hennin. This is the parlor game at the Aria High Limit Bar where he was this year just hanging out in the same places where the NBA guys hang out. He was found courtside. I mean, spoiler alert. We sort of revealed this in the episode in a way that's far more fun than me just like barfing it all out at you. But the dude was courtside at NBA games and this year he was watching the Miami Heat play, you guessed it, the Los Angeles Clippers this year, courtside. So he's just out here in a way that's sort of boggling the mind if he's also the guy who's supposed to be fearful of his own loss of freedom. The we can't sell enough that Shane Hennan, like, I know a lot of people listen, like, who the hell is Shane?

[Chris Cody]

I don't care. Tell me more about Chauncey Terry Rosier. This dude is a character. Like he's living. He's living life exactly the opposite of someone who is feeling the heat of the, of the, the fuzz coming down on him, right?

[Dan Le Batard]

He's out in Vegas. He's taking shots to the face.

[Chris Cody]

He's got models around with a hundred dollar bill, bikinis, everything, man. This dude is living his life to the. You don't need to tell me anything else about a person than the phrase stabbing dudes in the neck in a pool hall. Like that sentence is enough for me to say I know that person.

[Stugats]

And then two weeks later sold coke in the parking lot.

[Chris Cody]

That's almost redundant. That's almost redundant what you just said.

[Dan Le Batard]

He probably did it that day too. We just don't know about that.

[Chris Cody]

Stabbing dudes in the neck. And again, the signature on the punctual. In a pool hall.

[Stugats]

In a pool hall, Dan, you know how it goes down there.

[Chris Cody]

This, this guy, it looks, it looks like a movie director would. Would cast this person as slash ringleader slash snitch, slash cliche.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yes, alleged. Allegedly. Look, the central casting of this, it really does bear underscoring, like, go watch the video we made. Because it is absurd the level of how this guy is a real person. He is exactly on some level what you think, but in other ways he is surprising. And I think surprising to me, if nothing else, is the amount of. Just again, to go back to the Tony rule of is he in the room? Is he in the narthex? Is he adjacent? Is he in the mud room? Or whatever it is. The dude was around NBA players to a degree that is jarring, especially after he got caught up in the John Tate Porter indictment and investigation. These characters have been around the NBA and whether or not, you know, the big bold face names are the ones you care about, right? The people on the back page of the Post, there's Chauncey Billups, New York Post Hoop fellows, as we celebrate. Right? They got a pretty, pretty good. Pretty good title. The real characters here are guys like Amar Awade and Shane Hennan. And a lot of people are asking, are these all. Are all of these guys just athletes? It's like, no. In fact, the glorious sort of story in all of its absurdity here is that you get to meet these characters that are, I would say, beyond imagination in terms of how reckless they were in terms of publishing their whereabouts, such that not only the government could see it, but it turns out some obsessive podcasters could as well.

[Chris Cody]

Pablo Torre finds out. Go find it and make sure that you listen because there's a lot more information in it than what he just gave you. We started with candy and I end with candy weirdness as well. Are you still a human being who has never chewed gum? What?

[Dan Le Batard]

That's correct.

[Chris Cody]

You're weird.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's correct. I mean, I once. What? I once. I once. I once ran. So I was. My origin story is that I was like at school one day, like running my hand underneath my desk absentmindedly, you know, and what do you think I felt there? Gentlemen of the jury, I. Okay, that is. That is a close runner up to the actual answer.

[Chris Cody]

Is it gum? Is it gum?

[Dan Le Batard]

It was. It was already been chewed gum and I didn't know it. I'm just like fondling it. And then I look underneath the desk and I'm horrified. What? I've been touching for the whole time. Fondling the gum, to be very clear, for legal reasons, the gum. And that is a traumatic experience. I'm not eating that. Come on. What do you think? I'M going to put that in my mouth next. The gum.

[Chris Cody]

That's really the reason that you've never tried gum? That's the reason?

[Dan Le Batard]

Yes. I was scarred by that. It's disgusting. Why do people do that? Why do you think the gum that's already been chewed and is under the. No, no. Why. Why do people chew gum and then stick it underneath their desk? Grow up, man. I mean, that is. Whatever it is that you people are doing over there that you don't find that horrifying. People? What do you mean, you people? I go now. I don't think this is going better for me.

[Chris Cody]

See you later. Good talking to you. Thank you for the work. Thank you for the reporting. I want to place this in front of you guys because I really did think that the most magical thing about that Cash Patel press conference is just them casually mispronouncing, but also bringing into play the phrase La Cosa Nostra. And so I just want to ask all of you. Let me ask Chris and Zaz first. Do you guys want to translate that or try to translate that most literally?

[Dan Le Batard]

I know what it translates to.

[Chris Cody]

Chris, do you know what it translates to? I know.

[Dan Le Batard]

La casa.

[Chris Cody]

La cosa. La cosa Nostra. The reason that I bring it up right is because it's not our thing. It's this thing of ours. And until hearing it, it used both incorrectly the way they were pronouncing it and in general this week that I hadn't realized before that that the reason it said that way is. Or I'm assuming I don't know, but I'm assuming it said that way because when you say that thing of ours on a wiretap, they can't prove what that thing of ours is. That's what I. I assume. And it said so perfectly that it has a poetry to it where you're just hiding. You're hiding the menace and the threat in ma talk when you say that thing of ours. And we can't prove what you mean by that because it's cryptic enough.

[Dan Le Batard]

That certainly sounds very legitimate. But La Cosa Nostra, that phrase has been around for many, many years. Like, I got to figure it's been around before anyone knew about a wiretap, Right?

[Stugats]

Probably before wiretaps, if you want to be honest.

[Chris Cody]

Well, but from the old country. Okay. But if you're speaking around people, it's something that you're shrouding in a certain mystery. So if you're overheard, it can't be known what thing is, whether it's a wiretap or not, it's been around long enough for me to watch in the movies and say, damn, that's cool. I can't wait till I'm the director of the FBI. And I could say that in a.

[Dan Le Batard]

Press conference, La Castro Nostra said it incorrectly.

[Stugats]

What's not cool, it seems to me.

[Dan Le Batard]

Is that the guy who's afraid of.

[Stugats]

Gum is also dealing with the mob Congress.

[Dan Le Batard]

I mean, the FBI. Is he not scared? Has he received. He, he's talking about people being afraid.

[Stugats]

Of taking his calls.

[Dan Le Batard]

Has he gotten legitimately any sort of.

[Stugats]

You know, like we see in the movies all the time, like, let this one go, kid.

[Dan Le Batard]

You don't. You're not gonna like what you find.

[Stugats]

Dave I've been worried for Pablo's life because, I mean, between the Clipper stuff, now the mafia's in play. Like he's. He's stepping on the toes of the wrong people.

[Chris Cody]

Tony's basically John Candy at jfk, sweating hard and telling Pablo in a Cajun.

[Dan Le Batard]

Accent, you need to let this one go.

[Chris Cody]

You don't know what you're messing with, boy. You're not the only one who's concerned about Pablo. He's doing difficult worth work and it has threats in it. And people who care about Pablo have been worried about him before these two stories. The Belichick reporting is stuff that people were worried about. Although I don't think of Belichick wandering shirtless in front of a ring doorbell cam as quite the same of menace. But yes, there are many people telling Pablo that he needs to let stuff go, and he doesn't let it go. Except for the gum under the desk.

[Dan Le Batard]

I could.

[Stugats]

I could definitely see Jordan encouraging some defensive linemen to rough up Pablo. Teach him a lesson. Boys, folks, listen up.

[Dan Le Batard]

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[Stugats]

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