Hour 2: America's Fascination With Luigi Mangione (Feat. Dylan Scott)

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz: Hour 2 – America's Fascination With Luigi Mangione (Feat. Dylan Scott) Release Date: December 10, 2024

In this compelling episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz, hosts Dan Le Batard and Stugotz delve deep into a gripping narrative that has captured America's attention: the murder of Luigi Mangione, an Ivy League-educated CEO of United Healthcare. Featuring insightful commentary from Dylan Scott, a senior correspondent and editor for Vox, the episode explores the complex interplay between public dissatisfaction with the U.S. healthcare system and society's growing obsession with true-crime stories.

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1. Introduction to the Incident

Timestamp: 17:05

Dan Le Batard opens the discussion by highlighting the widespread fascination with the Luigi Mangione case. Mangione's assassination, allegedly carried out by Brian Thompson, the CEO of United Healthcare, has sparked a nationwide dialogue about vigilante justice and the deep-seated frustrations with the healthcare industry.

Dan Le Batard:

"America has been consumed by this story... it's a man named Luigi Mangione, an Ivy League student murdered in cold blood by the CEO of United Healthcare."

2. Interview with Dylan Scott: Analyzing Public Sentiment

Timestamp: 18:14

Dylan Scott joins the conversation to provide a journalistic perspective on the incident. He underscores the unprecedented nature of the public's reaction, where some segments appear to sympathize with Thompson's motives despite the heinous act.

Dylan Scott:

"It's like, this guy is like cigarette smoking. He's not going to be good for us in the long term, but in the short term, he is making this look cool."

Scott reflects on the contradiction between condemning the murder and understanding the underlying frustrations that may drive such extreme actions. He emphasizes the fragile state of the American healthcare system as a catalyst for widespread anger and disillusionment.

Dylan Scott:

"Human life is precious and callousness about murder does make me uncomfortable. But... the healthcare system has screwed people over in so many ways."

3. The Broken Healthcare System: A Collective Failure

Timestamp: 22:50

The conversation shifts to dissecting the multifaceted failures of the U.S. healthcare system. Scott explains that while health insurers are often the scapegoats, the issue is far more intricate, involving pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, and systemic inefficiencies.

Dylan Scott:

"There is not one man nor even one industry responsible for the failures of US healthcare. The finger-pointing is a distraction. Every party bears responsibility."

He highlights the disconnect between public perception and the reality of healthcare provision, noting that while some individuals report satisfaction with their health plans, this often correlates with minimal usage and low medical needs.

Dylan Scott:

"Most people say they're mostly happy with their healthcare plan, but a lot of those people are probably not using their healthcare that much."

4. Public Reaction and Vigilante Justification

Timestamp: 20:35

Dan probes deeper into the unsettling trend of public figures and segments of society seemingly rooting for individuals like Thompson. Scott acknowledges this paradoxical sentiment, attributing it to broader societal issues beyond healthcare, such as the normalization of aggression and the glamorization of vigilante actions in media.

Dan Le Batard:

"What do you make of the idea that people seem to be rooting for this suspect pretty publicly?"

Dylan Scott:

"It's connected to trends beyond healthcare... The Internet makes us more comfortable saying things we wouldn't in polite conversation."

5. Ethical Considerations and Host Perspectives

Timestamp: 26:31

Greg Cody, one of the recurring guests, vehemently condemns any justification of the murder, regardless of the victim's role in the healthcare industry. His passionate stance serves as a counterbalance to the more nuanced views presented by Scott.

Greg Cody:

"Even if you hate big pharma, even if you're being charged $500 for a pill that should cost $10, it doesn't justify this murder."

Cody anticipates the trial outcome, asserting that the jury will recognize the gravity of the crime without leniency, emphasizing that personal vendettas should never culminate in violence.

6. The Media's Role in Shaping Perceptions

Timestamp: 33:00

Dan Le Batard reflects on the media's role in both sensationalizing murder cases and simultaneously fostering a culture that consumes such content voraciously. He draws parallels between the Luigi Mangione case and the proliferation of true-crime media, questioning whether society is becoming desensitized to violence.

Dan Le Batard:

"Murder as a business right now is booming as a content play. People can't get enough of consuming this."

Scott concurs, highlighting that while the specifics of Mangione's case are unusual, the underlying public sentiment is a mirror of broader societal discontent and the media's influence in shaping narratives around justice and retribution.

7. Implications for the Healthcare Industry and Policy

Timestamp: 28:45

The discussion turns to the potential ramifications of this high-profile murder on the healthcare industry. Scott speculates on possible regulatory and policy changes driven by the incident, though he remains cautious about predicting immediate shifts given the political landscape.

Dylan Scott:

"We've got a new administration, new Congress coming in next year. I'm sure they're going to look at things to do on health care policy."

He also touches upon the challenges in reforming entrenched systems, noting the complexity of addressing issues that span multiple sectors within the healthcare industry.

8. Conclusion: Reflecting on Societal Failures

Timestamp: 34:03

As the episode draws to a close, the hosts and guests reflect on the broader societal implications of the Luigi Mangione case. They grapple with the duality of condemning violent acts while simultaneously understanding the frustrations that may lead individuals to such extremes. The consensus underscores the urgent need for comprehensive healthcare reform and a cultural shift in how society addresses grievances and discontent.

Dan Le Batard:

"The only way forward is to reckon with that collective failure. We need to begin working toward a more rational and just system."

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Key Takeaways

• Public Sentiment: The Luigi Mangione murder has exposed deep-seated frustrations with the U.S. healthcare system, leading to a complex public reaction where some sympathize with the perpetrator despite the moral reprehensibility of the act.

• Systemic Failures: The healthcare system's multifaceted issues, including high costs, inadequate coverage, and systemic inefficiencies, contribute to widespread dissatisfaction and extreme reactions.

• Media Influence: The proliferation of true-crime content in media may be both a reflection and a contributor to society's desensitization to violence and moral complexities surrounding justice.

• Policy Implications: High-profile incidents like Mangione's murder could catalyze policy discussions and potential reforms within the healthcare industry, though the path to meaningful change remains fraught with challenges.

• Ethical Stance: While understanding underlying frustrations, the hosts maintain a firm ethical stance against justifying violence, emphasizing the sanctity of human life and the need for non-violent solutions to systemic problems.

This episode offers a thought-provoking examination of how personal vendettas intersect with systemic issues, highlighting the urgent need for dialogue and reform in America's healthcare system to prevent such tragedies in the future.

Transcript

[Dan Le Batard]

You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network. Craven the hunter who uses all the methods of the animals.

[Stugotz]

This Thursday, Once you're on his list.

[Dan Le Batard]

There'S only one way off.

[Greg Cody]

Are you like your father?

[Chris Cote]

He puts evil into the world.

[Greg Cody]

I get rid of people like him.

[Dan Le Batard]

Who's next?

[Stugotz]

Witness the making of a new Marvel villain.

[Dan Le Batard]

You think you have some kind of Hon, you're a criminal.

[Greg Cody]

Just like our father.

[Dan Le Batard]

Aaron Taylor Johnson is Craven the hunter. Rated R under 17 on a minute without parent.

[Stugotz]

In theaters Thursday.

[Billy Corben]

This is the Dan Levator show with the Stuttgarts podcast.

[Dan Le Batard]

He was delightful. I aired in not asking him, hey, what was it like to chase Josh Allen around in your secondary and stuff like I aired because we were too busy hypnotized by talking about the masked.

[Billy Corben]

Singer and we had to get to the bottom of who the wasp.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's right. We almost did through all of your hard investigative work there of the game, the loss, the game. Buzz off. By the way, if you're listening to God Bless Football and you should be the growing and award winning God Bless Football, Billy is making you tons of money with his bets. Billy keeps going 30 because. And not just 30 last night. Everything cashed by the half. Like what what Billy is giving you in terms of secret insider gambling information on God Bless Football is worthy of a draft Kings renewal.

[Billy Corben]

Okay, thank you. Yeah, no, we three and old yesterday also arguably four. No, but one of them was a bonus one. It's not something you could actually bet on. And I bet that Noah Eagle was going to end up on one of those Netflix broadcasts. And sure enough, they announced that he was going to be on a Netflix game later that day. So I'm not counting that one towards the record though, so that one doesn't count.41 and 17 on the season, which is kind of crazy. Also, by the way, breaking news and I can officially tell you now because it's out. Godless Football was amongst some of the other Meadowlark shows that were nominated for the sports podcast awards. So if you go to sports podcastgroup.com you can vote for us for best American Football podcast and we'd appreciate it. We didn't win last year. We won the two years previous to that. And there's a lot of competition this year, so we can use all the votes that we can get. So go to sports podcast group.com and you can vote there for us for best American Football Podcast.

[Dan Le Batard]

A lot of podcasts out there, including Greg Cody show featuring Greg Cody with who is on this week's episode of your podcast. What are you excited about this week to bring the American public?

[Greg Cody]

We have old but youthful looking Dave Barry to talk about his holiday gift guide.

[Dan Le Batard]

Pulitzer Prize winner Dave Berry. That holiday gift guide has been funny for 30 years.

[Greg Cody]

It's, it's a staple. It's wonderful. He always comes up with crazy gifts that are both horrifying and delightful at the same time.

[Dan Le Batard]

And he's usually a great interview guest.

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, he's really good.

[Dan Le Batard]

The Greg Cody show featuring Greg Cody. Wherever it is that you get your podcasts, we've got a number of things that I want to get to before the end of the show. We've got a Thursday Thunder that we're about to get to. Did any of you see what is happening? Today is Tuesday, so it wouldn't be a Thursday Thunder. It would be against the spring.

[Greg Cody]

There we go.

[Dan Le Batard]

Excuse me. Completely different game, contract, contract, year. Did any of you see Mina and anything Simpsons related last night? Because I didn't see anything. We have managed to blissfully avoid talking about two teams that have a great deal of relevance but aren't very good. And I was just watching the idea of people talking about, oh, the Cowboys playoff chances and I'm like, what are you talking about? They've lost every home game they played this year. Like, what are you talking about? I don't want to talk about that game. But what was Mina doing with the Simpsons? I saw that she said it was a career highlight, but I didn't see any of it until know what she was doing.

[Billy Corben]

She was one. It was an alternate broadcast. So you have like the regular broadcast with Joe Buck and then you have the Manning cast. And then last year they did a Toy Story broadcast and this year there was a Simpsons broadcast. And Mina was on the call for the Simpsons broadcast. So she was, you know, in a booth and she was calling the game as the Simpsons character. Sometimes this is the way the game would work. So everybody was connected to the players that were going on. If you're looking at the screen watching us on video, you can see she was Simpsonized. So that's what Mina Kynes would look like as a Simpsons character. Dan Orlofsky was there as well. And then occasionally while the plays were going on, they would drop in a Simpsons character. So like Bart would become the quarterback who one time a touchdown. Spoiler alert. If you're going to go back and watch the game as the Simpsons version of the game, for some reason, Ralph scored a touchdown at one point in time. Lisa had a Nice run where fire was coming out of her. So it was a fun time had by all. And they checked in with, you know, Mina and Dan orlofsky weren't the only ones that became Simpsons characters. They checked in with Stephen a. Smith, who was there, as well as a Simpsons character at one point in time.

[Dan Le Batard]

Did they get the look right on Mina? Because I felt like they scrubbed all of the ethnicity out of Mina all of a sudden. You've got to be fair.

[Stugotz]

None of them look like. I looked at the three people on the screen right there. It's supposed to be Mina, Dan orlovsky, and I don't even know who the third person is. None of them look like any of the people they're supposed to be. So awful.

[Dan Le Batard]

All right, let's counter Simpsons.

[Greg Cody]

It's not awful.

[Chris Cote]

It was good. It did great.

[Greg Cody]

Okay.

[Stugotz]

Greg looks like the Simpsons character. I feel like simpsonizing you would be pretty easy.

[Greg Cody]

Do you?

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah.

[Stugotz]

Because you got to look about you.

[Greg Cody]

You got to look.

[Dan Le Batard]

Okay.

[Greg Cody]

Yeah. All right, whatever. I didn't think Mina looked simpsonized. Did not flatter Mina. I didn't think. But I could be wrong.

[Billy Corben]

I mean, it wasn't like a beauty pageant. It was, you know, a football game.

[Greg Cody]

I know.

[Stugotz]

You know, I was once made into a ducktail character.

[Dan Le Batard]

Greg, how do you feel about the last 30 seconds of content you've given this show?

[Greg Cody]

The last 30 seconds?

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah. You just sort of whimsically parasoled into the conversation, offered nothing.

[Greg Cody]

Well, whimsy, apparently I offered since I whimsically parasailed in. I mean, I don't know what I'm going to offer. You're talking about caricature. Simpson. Nobody looks good as a Simpson character.

[Dan Le Batard]

Is this Stephen A. Smith? That can't be Steven. That's me. Come on.

[Stugotz]

That's Prince.

[Dan Le Batard]

You got nothing but the. You got nothing but the forehead. Right. You got nothing else. Right? Let's counter Simpson's programming with our own beef cake. Let's go out to ton poolside. It is time for Tony's top five. Tony, coming off a very successful weekend MMA hangout, is becoming more and more popular. He is crushing it on Saturday nights around the fights. What do you have for us today for our top five list on your football observations? Tony?

[Tony]

Dano. No, Oli. As you can see, this is kind of a chill day today. We've had a long weekend. We had the amazing Sunday service brought to you by the boys at God bless football. We had a hangout. We had Sunday night live last night. So A plethora of things that we got into this weekend. So today, chilling by the pool. No olive. We're going to go straight top five. Dan, are you ready?

[Dan Le Batard]

I am. In just a second. I can say what I'm about to say and be accurate. Right. There is no place in the United States where the temperature is as good as where Tony is right now. Correct. California is cold in the morning. California can get cold. There is nothing like what. There is nothing in December like what Tony is doing right now for winter, which is. It is lovely out there. It's beautiful out there. And Tony's ready to give you his football top five.

[Stugotz]

Well, to be honest with you, Dan, it's not just Miami in Arizona right now it's about 75 degrees during the daytime. At night it gets cold. But right now I can sit by my pool.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's fine. It does in the morning. At night, it gets cold in California and Arizona.

[Billy Corben]

Virgin Islands are great now, too.

[Dan Le Batard]

I said United States Virgin Islands.

[Stugotz]

I didn't say British.

[Greg Cody]

Key west is pretty nice.

[Tony]

Contiguous.

[Dan Le Batard]

Contiguous South Florida. Yes. Thank you. Go ahead. Number five, Tony.

[Tony]

Number five, Dano. I'm actually going to kick it out to you for a dealer's choice. Okay, Dan, you're my dealer. Here's the dealer's choice. Coach of the year update. I'm going to give you three names. Dan Campbell, Kevin O'Connell, Mike Tomlin. Dealer's choice. Who do you pick?

[Dan Le Batard]

I guess I'd have to take Dan Campbell just because they're a historic laughing stock.

[Greg Cody]

I got a different one. Jim Harbaugh. Ooh.

[Tony]

Okay, Greg.

[Billy Corben]

No observation is asking Dan who he thinks the coach of the year is.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah. That's what I. That is number four.

[Tony]

Number four. Eagles keep winning, but there's trouble in paradise between number one and number 11. Dan. I don't know if you saw Brandon Graham yesterday, said that there was a little bit of a situation going on in the relationship with QB1 and wide receiver one.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't like that he said more than that. He said that Jalen is trying and that AJ has to adjust parts of how he receives things like that was. That was an unbelievable bit of dirty laundry to have. Is he. Is. Is the guy who said that even playing or is he injured?

[Tony]

I think. I think he's injured.

[Dan Le Batard]

I mean, you're coming. You're coming off IR just to create a controversy for your team during an interview. That is not good work by that guy.

[Tony]

Not even in the building.

[Dan Le Batard]

Number.

[Tony]

Number three. Como Conyo. Okay. And Danley you could translate for the audience. Como carajo. Tupue tocala pelota. On that punt. The punt got blocked and you touch it trying to pick it up. What are you doing? Not only did you cost me money, you cost me fantasy position. You cost me everything. 27. Jerry Jones was. His hand was shaking at the booth when they panned over to Jerry during that situation. Daniel, that's the stupidest thing I've seen in a long time.

[Dan Le Batard]

How would you translate, Billy? Como cono. How? Cono is an all purpose Spanish. Yeah, like como cono. Como carajo is easier.

[Billy Corben]

There's. I mean, literally, there's multiple ways to translate como cono. Because como could be cow and it can also be eat. Cono can be a number of things.

[Dan Le Batard]

Spanish, a confusing language. Greg, what can you tell us about last night's game and the stupidity that you saw at the end of it that conjured memories of Leon Lett on Thanksgiving?

[Greg Cody]

It was awful. Mainly because I had picked Dallas to win outright. I picked them for my upset of the week in the Miami Herald. I had it. I had it. Dallas should have won that game. How do you blow that on a. On a punt? How do you not wind up with a ball after a block punt? I hadn't seen that in years. I don't know when's the last time I saw that. It was outrageous. Jerry Jones should have fired that guy right on the spot. He should have run whoever touched that ball. I don't recall his name. Jerry Jones should have run down from his suite onto the sideline, onto the field and fired that man. Who caused that.

[Dan Le Batard]

Number two, Tony.

[Tony]

Number two, Dan. He's not top 10 in passing yards. He's not top five in touchdowns thrown. But if he took Josh Allen off the bills, they'd be 4 and 13. That. That tells me one thing, Dano.

[Dan Le Batard]

You're going to make starts with three letters.

[Tony]

Sorry. Exactly right. Thank you, Dan. MVP for Josh Allen. I think this is a record. I've named somebody the MVP in five straight weeks. On Tony's top five.

[Dan Le Batard]

Put it on the poll, please. At Lebanon show, does MVP start with three letters?

[Stugotz]

@ LeBatard show, what does it end with?

[Tony]

Wow.

[Dan Le Batard]

Number one.

[Tony]

Number one, Dan. Jags, Titans. I didn't think you would. You would have this to lead off to be the number one. But Jags, Titans, 10 to 6, the game being played in every TV in every sports bar in hell. Speaking of hell, Dan, our brials. Those were Tony's top five for week 14. Every TV in every sports bar. In Hell is playing Jags Titans 10 to 6 with Mac Jones and Will Levis.

[Dan Le Batard]

That one was was a horror. Thank you Tony. Appreciate your top five brought to you by the Haters.

[Mike]

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[Billy Corben]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Don lebata Greg, how's your birthday going so far?

[Greg Cody]

I invented it. It's going fantastic. My wife and I are staying home tonight. We're watching the debate on tv. We're going to do something special for baby. It's a nice day for me so far.

[Chris Cote]

Stugots that sounds like not a super nice night. The debate.

[Billy Corben]

Old people love that shit.

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, that's exactly right. Old people do love that shit. And I'm old now. I can't deny it anymore.

[Billy Corben]

Now this is the Don Levatar show with the stugats.

[Dan Le Batard]

America has been consumed by this story. I have told you, Greg, that I'm darkly fascinated by America's fascination with documentaries about murder, podcasts about murder, and video. Here of what has been a story that everybody's been talking about where a man named Luigi, Luigi Mangione, an Ivy League student murdered in cold blood like an assassin, strike with, allegedly with a gun, allegedly the CEO of United Healthcare, Brian Thompson. And a lot of people are viewing him as a bit of a vigilante on behalf of American outcries around the health industry. So we've got Dylan Scott on with us. He's a senior correspondent and editor for Vox. He's been covering global health for more than a decade. And his latest article is called the Deep Roots of Americans Hatred of Their Healthcare System. Thank you, Dylan, for joining us. And I guess give us an overview from your vantage point of how it is that you've experienced this story that has grabbed America's interest.

[Chris Cote]

Sure, Dan, thanks for having me. And it has been a surreal few days. I've covered healthcare for more than 10 years, and this still feels kind of like the biggest moment on the beat in a lot of ways. And because largely of that public reaction that you described, you know, it's been like yesterday. It has been sort of darkly humorous in a way. Like yesterday when we learned his name was Luigi. I saw the anti Italian memes and are those using Italian stereotypes? And I thought those, you know, my wife's maiden name is Campanella. And they felt kind of absurd. And so it felt safe to laugh. But. But there's been this other tweet that I have been thinking about ever since I saw over the weekend that kind of captures this, the weird headspace that I find myself in. And this was after the backpack was found in Central park with the Monopoly money in it. And it was before he was identified, obviously. And he was sort of at the height of his mystery and public appeal, if we want to call it that. And this tweet said it's like, this guy is like cigarette smoking. He's not going to be good for us in the long term, but in the short term, he is. He's making this look cool. And I feel like that kind of summed up the contrary, contradictory feelings that I've been both, like, picking up in the public response, but also been feeling myself. Because on the one hand, you know, not to be a scold, but, you know, human life, I do believe human life is precious and Callousness about murder does make me uncomfortable. But on the other hand, as somebody who's covered health care for more than 10 years, I understand why people are so angry. You know, I know the many ways that the health care system has screws people over. And I know that the stakes are really high for people when they go through those experiences. Like if you're in a serious medical situation, those. That's one of the most fraught moments of your life. So I've been trying to hold both of those ideas and doing so uneasily in my head at the same time over the past few days.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, what do you make though, of the idea that people seem to be rooting for this suspect pretty publicly? It's not okay, but is it understandable based on the reporting that you've been doing for a decade?

[Chris Cote]

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's not okay, but it is. I do understand it. You know, I do think it's like this, in a way is connected to trends that are sort of beyond healthcare, you know, in terms of, like, the crassness that we see in public life and in our society these days. And I do think, like, the Internet makes us more comfortable maybe saying things that we wouldn't want to want to say in, like, polite conversation. But. But in terms of the healthcare system itself, people have been screwed over by health insurers. And especially when you think back to the days before the Affordable Care act, people were denied coverage just because they were sick or they'd have claims for serious medical services and they would just be denied. And even Today, after the ACA has been law now for more than 10 years, and there are more protections, for example, for people with preexisting conditions, health insurers are still up to, to other hijinks. People just in general feel like the costs of health care are too high. And like, the thing that I think sit here thinking about is like, you know, I'm, in a way, I'm not surprised that it was sort of a health insurance executive that was targeted because I feel like health insurers are the easy villain in our very screwed up health care system because it's sort of like, what do they do? But at the same time, I know because I have been covering this for so long that like, everybody bears some of the blame. You know, the pharmaceutical companies, even the hospitals, even physic and certainly health insurers. And so it's really complicated to untangle. And I don't know what we do with all this anger that people are Feeling and sort of freely expressing after the shooting last week. But I do understand where it comes from, even if it makes me a little bit uncomfortable.

[Stugotz]

I'm curious. It seemed like we crossed the threshold here, where I don't know if it was the CEO of any other type of a Fortune 500 company that could have been murdered and would have the same kind of response that came out here. What impact do you think is going to happen on the health insurance industry as far as any changes because of their fear of, hey, look, the people are pissed. How pissed are they? Well, one of them murdered one of our guys and the rest of them are like, yeah, yeah.

[Chris Cote]

And that's what's so, like, paradoxical about this moment, is it feels like, yes, there's. There's, like something is happening. This sort of live nerve has been exposed and we're having to kind of stare the damage that the broken health care system has done to our society in the face. But I don't know, like, what we do with that. You know, we've got a new, in terms of, like, policy, you know, we've got a new administration, new Congress coming in next year. I'm sure they're going to look at things to do on health care policy. Are they going to propose big crackdowns on private health insurers, which, like Republicans in general have generally been more favorable towards? I don't know. The conversations about how to change things in pharma and the hospital system are even more difficult. Like, part of the reason, I think health insurers, to your point, kind of get so much attention and so much vitriol is like I said before, it's like, what do you guys really do? You're just like, money. You're moving money around. You're not taking care of anybody. You're not. You're not creating new cures that are.

[Dan Le Batard]

Going to save you. It's a mafia. You've heard Bill Burke talk about this. It's a mafia. Like, this is. It's business corruption. You know, pharma bro is a symptom. Pharma bro is a feature, not a bug. When he becomes the most hated man on the Internet for charging $750 for a pill that should be $5, like, you can tell us all the appalling stories. What's the thing that scares you the most? What do you view as the worst of what these mafiosos do?

[Chris Cote]

Right? And I mean, you know, I. The one I've been fixated on lately is there has been recent reporting on health insurers using like AI driven algorithms to figure out like how to deny people claims, basically, you know, using all of the tools that are at their disposal that apparently this guy was familiar with, if you've seen the reporting about the words written on the bullets. And so, yeah, it is like, you know, everybody. One thing that's really interesting, if you look at like the polling data about people's experience with health insurance in the US is like, by and large, actually, and this does surprise me, Dan, I'll admit it, but it's true. Most people will basically say like they're mostly happy with their health care plan. But the catch is, you have to remember a lot of those people are probably not using their healthcare that much. They're going to the doctor once a year, maybe they have like one or two prescriptions, but they're not really using healthcare that much. So for them it's fine.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, but Gallup, Gallup found that the percentage of Americans who approve of their available healthcare is at an all time low.

[Chris Cote]

Totally. And people don't like this. People think the system is broken. They think the quality of healthcare is getting worse. But let me just follow. The catch I think is really interesting and it's really to your point, it's that the more people use their healthcare or health insurance, the higher their medical bills, the less satisfied that they are. So it's almost like there's a lot of us kind of living in a delusion that we have good health insurance, but until we try to use it and then we see we experience all of the problems with it and it's really frustrating and it makes us angry. And I think that has created these attitudes where like people think the healthcare, you know, it's only like 30% of the American public think the health care system overall is doing a good job. And yes, as you said, the number of people who think they're getting quality health care here in the United States is on an all time low, which is a really shocking thing because for all of its problems, like if you can get good health care in the United States, you can get the best healthcare in the United States. And that has always been true, and it does continue to be true. But that caveat is sort of the whole problem. If you can get it and too many people can't and it's so expensive. And that's why we're seeing the reaction that we have.

[Greg Cody]

It's up to the government to fix a broken health care system. But in the meantime, how about we don't Commit cold blooded murder against the guy heading a healthcare system. I hate any attempt to justify this murder on any level. Okay? Even if you hate big pharma, even if you're being charged 500 bucks for a pill that should cost 10, it doesn't justify this murder. And I hate any implication that it does. I guarantee you this, when the alleged murderer is up on trial, there's going to be no mitigating factor here. The jury's not going to say, well, he killed someone who is head of United Healthcare, so let's be light on him. That's not going to happen and it shouldn't. And I apologize. That's not a question.

[Dan Le Batard]

It really isn't, but it's a hell of a diatribe. I salute you. You have rarely had this kind of righteous indignation at end of a show.

[Greg Cody]

Well, because I'm hearing so much justification for this heinous cold blooded murder no matter who the victim is. Let's not justify it on any level.

[Chris Cote]

And I totally agree with you. And that's been, you know, if you read the piece I wrote last week, that was sort of my point, like there's not one person, there's not even one industry to blame for all of our problems.

[Dan Le Batard]

I'll read it for you. I'll read it right.

[Chris Cote]

Collective failure.

[Dan Le Batard]

There is not one man nor even one industry responsible for the failures of US healthcare. The finger pointing is a distraction. Every party bears responsibility. The only way forward is to reckon with that collective failure. We need to begin working toward a more rational and just system if we are to have any hope of creating a world in which Thompson shooting would be truly unimaginable. That's from your story on vox.com and I don't know what you find to be the most interesting details that people are finding shocking. Obviously the cold blooded mafia ness of this. But it's also, these are not the identifying traits of someone who murdered you in the street. It's whether you want to make Italian stereotypes jokes or Soprano memes or not. Luigi Mangione doesn't have the background that would suggest that he would do something like this. This seems like a person who is moral about who he's murdering. So I ask you, is he crazy? What are the details here worth examining?

[Chris Cote]

That's a great question, Dan. And that is something I think journalists struggle with. Anytime there's a shooting like this, and I'll confess where I'm at right now is yes, he's clearly like, you know, he doesn't have the sort of typical profile. Exactly. That you would expect of a shooter. But if I'm honest with myself, I try to remember, like, his mindset is always going to be a bit indecisible, indecipherable to the rest of us. Like, even if we can sort of understand sort of his frustrations with the healthcare system. You're not having a normal day when you go out and shoot somebody in the middle of New York City. And so there is a point where I'm like. Like, I don't know how much I care about his individual mindset. What is interesting to me is this public reaction and what it reveals about the failures of the healthcare system, about our frustrations with it. And, yeah, I know we will. We will piece. I'm sure, you know, there may be a manifesto. People will obsess over that. And, you know, it'll be interesting to hear the details if there was sort of, like, a specific situation that sort of sent him down this path. But I do try to step back and, yeah, remember, like, you're never going to totally get inside the head of somebody who did this. And so at a certain point, it's futile to even try. And it's better to sort of, like, reflect on what this is saying about us collectively as a whole.

[Stugotz]

Now, Dylan, one of the things I want to reflect on is that Cavs hoodie that you have on. The Cavs are off to a historic start this season, but they had a bad loss the other night in Miami. And I know Evan. Evan Mobley sprained an ankle, it looks like. What are your thoughts on where the Cavs are going to go this season?

[Chris Cote]

I mean, I came into the season apprehensive. Like, last year, was it like, you basically just checked the boxes. We got to the second round looked okay against Boston considering we were injured, but, like, that was it. So I was, you know, the win streak to start the season. I was thrilled. It was awesome. I do think Mobley has, like, like, made a mini leap, at least on the offensive end. It's not like he's going to be an offensive engine, but if he's more competent, if he can hit those threes at a decent clip and play, make a little bit like, that unlocks a whole new level for the team. And I will say you guys will appreciate this. I think, like, I know everybody's praising Kenny Atkinson. I am thrilled with Kenny Atkinson. But I do think, like, the fact that the defense has held up is a little bit of A credit to.

[Dan Le Batard]

J.B. bickerstein has Mobley Taken a mini leap? Or is it a step? Or has he taken. Or has he turned the corner just a step?

[Chris Cote]

Is it a hop? Is it a hop? No, there's no hop.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's not a mini leap.

[Chris Cote]

It sounds ridiculous.

[Dan Le Batard]

Is it a jump?

[Chris Cote]

He's up, like, he's up a couple points per game.

[Dan Le Batard]

Is it a jump? Is it a leap? Is it a step?

[Stugotz]

He's turned a corner. He has not turned a corner. Dylan, this is my point about the Cavs. When everyone was going crazy about the start, I said, I think they can be better. And everyone said, how?

[Billy Corben]

How?

[Stugotz]

They're already, you know, amazing. I said, because. Because Evan Mobley still hasn't taken that leap to be in.

[Dan Le Batard]

He said he's taking a mini leap.

[Chris Cote]

A mini leap is just a step.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's just a step. It's a. It's the step in disguise. Put it on the poll at Lebatard show is a mini leap. Just a step in disguise. Dylan, thank you for being on with us. We appreciate the time. We appreciate the information. I am just. I want to see the floor right now for the promotion of Greg Cody's podcast featuring Greg Cody, where he talks, among other things, about things he has blamed his pet for. He has blamed his pet for assortment of things. And I don't want to spoil it for you, but you can get it on the Greg Cody show featuring Greg Cody. But I want to celebrate for a moment what I believe to be at an advanced age, the greatest close of Greg Cody's career to a show when he has lacked some stamina at the end of these shows. Because back in his day, murder was wrong.

[Stugotz]

Yeah.

[Dan Le Batard]

Back in his day, it wasn't okay. Murder to just celebrate somebody in the street killing somebody because you're down with the healthcare call was. And Greg Cody was indignant about it. And he's not here for your normalization.

[Unknown]

Yelling at Dylan.

[Chris Cote]

That's right.

[Dan Le Batard]

He was yelling at Dylan about the jokes being made at the Internet. This guy's done 10 years of healthcare reporting. Greg Cody hasn't lifted a finger before this righteous indication. And he was yelling at Dylan about the controversial take of Murder's not okay.

[Stugotz]

He goes on this long spill, and then at the end he says. And I know that's not a question.

[Dan Le Batard]

Like, well, it was unbelievable. I was watching a great lawyer, undefeated in trial cases, prowl over a closing argument because he knows he's in the right with the controversial take.

[Greg Cody]

Thank you.

[Dan Le Batard]

Murder is wrong.

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, well, that's not what I'm hearing from America. Right now I'm hearing justification, rationalization.

[Chris Cote]

On the other hand, a lot of.

[Greg Cody]

People talk about, well, on this hand, I see this.

[Dan Le Batard]

On one hand's a gun that murdered somebody. On the other hand, shut the up.

[Stugotz]

That's why we have two hands.

[Billy Corben]

Good.

[Chris Cote]

That is true.

[Dan Le Batard]

That is not why we have two hands. The for balance. Why do we have two hands?

[Stugotz]

It's not to have another hand.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's not for equilibrium. The equilibrium of one handed people is just fine. They don't need the second hand.

[Greg Cody]

The fugitive only had one arm.

[Dan Le Batard]

That was not the fugitive. That was. That was who the fugitive was framed by.

[Greg Cody]

That's true.

[Stugotz]

It wasn't me. It was the one armed man.

[Dan Le Batard]

I can't believe the strength with which Cody got out. The controversial opinion of murder is bad.

[Greg Cody]

That's right.

[Dan Le Batard]

You know what?

[Chris Cote]

That was Hulk Hogan a little bit. Come on, people.

[Dan Le Batard]

But I'm not even sure. Look, man, we have normalized this. Whether you're watching documentaries like the Jinx or just. There's just been a proliferation of cult and murder documentaries. And murder as a business right now is booming as a content play. Like go look at the top 100 podcasts. It's all sports comedy, a little bit of self help and murder. Every just murder sprayed all over the place. People can't get enough in and out of their cars of consuming this. And this one captivated everybody, at least in part because there are murders in cold blood every day on the street. This one because of the story behind it, because of what Cody's talking about, the rationalizations around. Well, health care is bad, so let me shoot this dude in the street, right?

[Greg Cody]

Yeah.

[Stugotz]

Also he's beautiful.

[Dan Le Batard]

There's that too.

[Greg Cody]

He is a good looking guy, no doubt.

[Unknown]

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[Chris Cote]

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