Hour 2: Dan Pays For Everything

Summary

---

Episode Overview

Title: Hour 2: Dan Pays For Everything
Podcast: The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Date: January 27, 2026

This episode, recorded at the Elser Hotel in Downtown Miami, dives into the blurred lines between sports media, journalism, and entertainment. It features a robust discussion on Max Kellerman’s recent partnership with Dana White’s boxing promotion—and Ariel Helwani’s staunch criticism of it, raising greater questions about credibility, objectivity, and the current state of journalism. The hosts also touch on sportswashing, sports business, and some lighter moments about NFL coaching hires, the Royal Rumble, and NHL news.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of Sports Media and Credibility

• Dan Le Batard laments the broader erosion of journalistic credibility in the age of billionaire- and corporate-owned media. He notes that even established news brands and sports journalism are now deeply compromised ([01:08]).

• Ariel Helwani and Max Kellerman’s Dispute:

  • Context: Ariel Helwani, a respected MMA journalist, accuses Max Kellerman—long revered in boxing media—of selling out by excessively praising Dana White’s new boxing promotion on air ([04:22], [05:41]).
  • Dan sees Helwani as a rare ethical beacon in a “gutter” industry and frames his criticism of Kellerman as profoundly disappointing.
  • Quote:
    • “Ariel Helwani gave none of his integrity over to what was a circus event of nonsense without anyone impugning Ariel Helwani on the job.” — Greg Cody ([05:41])
    • “He’s unbelievably qualified to say what he’s saying. I did not see what happened with Max Kellerman, but when he makes the accusation, I simply believe it.” — Greg Cody ([05:41])

• Standards and Objectivity in Sports Media:

  • The group debates whether a journalist (or analyst) can be objective if financially tied to a promotion.
  • Mike makes the point: “If Dana White in any way is paying Max Kellerman, then Max Kellerman has probably an obligation to put the best possible slant on whatever he’s talking about.” ([07:22])
  • Greg Cody counters: “But…he’s not allowed to think that Dana White is going to come and save boxing. That’s not a credible opinion coming to his life…That’s not credible.” ([08:45])

• Ariel's Complaint Against Kellerman:

  • Ariel’s criticism is viewed as particularly noteworthy because it comes with clear reluctance and respect:
    • “He is being appalled watching somebody do infomercial on behalf of sports. And I’m asking you, as people in this room who know I care about journalism, there are a lot of silly conflicts, right? Greg Olson shouldn’t be calling a Carolina playoff game, but I don’t mind…In this sport, which is the dirtiest…To see Ariel Hawani come after Max Kellerman surprised me…” — Dan Le Batard ([05:41])

---

2. Are All Media Now Just Entertainers?

• Stugotz sees Kellerman's role as a TV personality, not a traditional journalist:
  • “I think Max is a journalist in this scenario. I think he’s an analyst who's a television personality and approaches his job differently than Ariel.” ([07:39])
• Multiple hosts grapple with whether objectivity is even possible or expected, using team-employed broadcasters as local analogies.

---

3. The “Infomercial” Problem in Sports Broadcasting

• The show plays a clip of Max Kellerman’s enthusiastic praise for Dana White’s promotion:
  • “I have literally been waiting for this for right now my entire life. Since I was a little kid. There’s never been a major league of boxing. It just hasn’t existed.” — Max Kellerman ([22:47])
• This hyperbolic endorsement is mocked, and the group points out how such salesmanship can erode public trust.
• Dan highlights this as symptomatic:
  • “Ariel Helwani brought that to our attention. And I’m asking the rest of the audience, do you care at all? Or is it just Max is a television entertainer who cares whether he’s bought and paid for… I just want to enjoy my sport with the very credible Max Kellerman lending his name to it.” ([10:47])

---

4. Sportswashing & Morality in Modern Sports

• The hosts discuss the normalization of “sportswashing”—powerful nations using sports to launder their reputations.

• Quote:

  • “It used to be an outrage, and five years later, it’s not…We have enough problems in this country where our moral high ground is not nearly as high as it used to be or should be.” — Mike Ryan ([33:39], [33:59])
  • “But it’s not really condemnation, though…It’s been successfully. Sports washed. The blood money over the last five years. We yelled a lot about Liv and Mickelson and then just stopped doing it because the money, the oil.” — Greg Cody ([34:50])

• They point to both Saudi investments in WWE/golf and American complicity or silence.

---

5. How Can Investigative Sports Journalism Matter?

• The panel laments the difficulty of getting readers and viewers to care about issues like team owners’ war profiteering or political ties, as with the Memphis Grizzlies owner.
• Dan:
  • “When I ask Pablo and us, how do we get that Hunter Brooks story in front of people in a way that isn’t as easy as, oh, look Kawhi and the Clippers might have done this, or sports gambling might have this. Things that everyone can understand. When I make it war against foreigners, that is literally life and death.” ([35:58])
• Greg Cody:
  • “Journalism’s not supposed to. Not supposed to be ideally governed by. How do I get the clicks? It’s supposed to be governed by how do you follow truth in the name of facts? Pointing out to people injustices. It’s how it dies. You do realize.” ([37:43])
• There’s mutual frustration over editorial decisions, with the group agreeing serious reporting too often gets buried for lighter, clickier topics.

---

6. NFL Coaching, Wrestling Banter & Lighter Sports Moments

• Stephen A. Smith’s take: Suggesting Ryan Clark (the former NFL safety, now broadcaster) should be considered as a head coach by the Steelers prompts incredulity:
  • “He’s never been a coach. He’s never coached. I don’t understand.” — Greg ([25:17])
• Royal Rumble & WWE Saudi Partnership: The crew debates the “bone sawing” controversy, WWE’s Saudi events, and their own complicity in enjoying these shows while simultaneously recognizing the ethical quandary ([32:13]-[35:42]).
• Brief Local Sports Update: News about the Florida Panthers' players' rehab status ([41:52]).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Greg Cody on Ariel Helwani’s integrity:
  “He just called the Jake Paul fight and added a credibility to it without impacting any of his own, without undermining a production. That was an actual scam.” ([05:41])

• On sportswashing and public outrage:
  “It used to be an outrage, and five years later, it’s not...And part of it, I think, is what Mike just said. He’s not wrong. I mean, we have enough problems in this country where our moral high ground is not nearly as high as it used to be or should be.” — Mike Ryan ([33:59])

• Dan on click-driven journalism:
  “Journalism’s not supposed to...be ideally governed by, ‘How do I get the clicks?’ It’s supposed to be governed by, ‘How do you follow truth in the name of facts?’...It’s how it dies.” ([37:43])

• Greg Cody, summarizing the effect of sports on public morality:
  “Sports makes money for all of us...It’s not really condemnation, though, the way that’s not what’s happening anymore. It’s been successfully sports washed.” ([34:50])

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Ariel Helwani’s Critique of Max Kellerman: [04:22] – [05:41]
• Roundtable Debates Objectivity & Ethical Standards: [07:06] – [10:47]
• Max Kellerman’s Shilling—Audio Example: [22:45] – [23:31]
• Sportswashing, WWE & Saudi Money: [32:13] – [35:42]
• Discussion on Investigative Sports Reporting Importance: [35:58] – [39:31]
• NFL Coaching Speculation and Stephen A. Smith’s Comments: [24:32] – [26:14]
• Local Panthers Update/Light Banter: [41:52] – [42:37]

---

Tone & Takeaways

The episode is candid, sometimes exasperated, and leans into the show's trademark blend of irreverence and serious journalism talk. The hosts oscillate between deep concern for the state of modern media (“the media is dead”) and the realities of what audiences, and even themselves as sports consumers, care about—never shying from self-critique or humor.

Ultimately, the episode urges listeners to question their own standards for truth in sports coverage and confronts the uncomfortable trade-offs between entertainment, business, and ethical journalism in today's media landscape.

Transcript

[Dan Le Batard]

The French Dip from Firehouse Subs is.

[Stugats]

Here for a limited time, piled high with premium roast beef, caramelized onions and melty cheese on a freshly toasted garlic butter roll.

[Dan Le Batard]

Every French dip is served with warm, savory au jus for dipping.

[Stugats]

This melty French dip is only at.

[Dan Le Batard]

Firehouse Subs for a limited time, so head to your nearest Firehouse Subs or.

[Stugats]

Order on the app and try the French Dip before it's gone. Limited time at participating Firehouse Subs restaurants while supplies last.

[Greg Cody]

All right, listen up. Nacho chips, quiet down. Crispy potatoes. This is the moment Velveeta's been preparing you for and you're not about to crack under pressure. Today's the day to go all in on the drip. Velveeta's heat Neat Queso is the MVP of any game day spread, so stick by them and you'll be golden. Now get out there and make delicious history. No tailgate party is complete without Velveeta.

[Mike Ryan]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats podcast.

[Greg Cody]

So forgive me for a second as I do some media talk with Greg Cody who I know cares about some of the same things that I do and makes a distinction between what it is that he does for a living and what, for example, something like Zazz what Zaz does for a living when it comes to priding yourself in being a journalist. Okay, when I said earlier in the show that the media is dead, it is not dying, it is dead. What you're seeing happen with billionaires being able to change something as historic as like even CBS News or the fighting of late night hosts or the under coverage by the mainstream Media of Trump's NSPM 7 Labels Common beliefs of terrorism, indicators to be anti Christian, anti American, anti capitalism get very little reporting in the mainstream press because it's broken. Closer to home. I've seen a mayor in Miami recently shamed by social media because police officers were sent to someone's home for having an opinion on Facebook. And we're living in some times where the media matters and your ability to get credible reporting in places that are now compromised. We're gonna see it all over the place and much smaller in sports. So I wanna put in front of you some sound from a heartbroken Ariel Hel who's listening to Max Kellerman. Now. Ariel does one of the most extraordinary jobs I have ever seen in the history of the sports journalism business where he is bringing ethics to a sport that has none, to an industry that doesn't to a sport that doesn't want him around or respect what he does. He still built an empire amid a bunch of cavemen because they know he's always interested in the truth and incredible fair reporting. He's an extraordinary journalist, even though he doesn't have the traditional training. And so he's listening to Dana White's boxing telecast that features Max Kellerman and he's listening to a panel of boxing analysts who should be the best in the business and they feel bought by the way that they are shilling a product that's not worth it. Cuz Dana White, as you've seen, has some power and the billionaires can now push around media. Dana White's been trying to do this to Hawaiian for a really long time. Physically being threatening to him with him and his goons because he doesn't have an appreciation for what Ariel Helwani does. And now his sports going to the White House because the platform works. Of everyone's fake news, everything is less real. He's accusing a hero, Max Kellerman, a legitimate hero, of being bought and paid for by the Dana White promotion because of how he's shilling on behalf of a product that Ariel Helwani has the credibility to tell you the that's substandard. What you're watching is not matching the words coming from one of my heroes. So listen to Ariel Helwani on his own show going after somebody he doesn't want to go after Max Kellerman. He's admired. Max Kellerman is a hero to Ariel Helwani. As someone who was on boxing, cable newscasts at 14 years old, talking honestly about the dirtiest sport.

[Junior Stugats]

What the hell happened to Max Kellerman?

[Mike]

Yeah, I had a feeling.

[Junior Stugats]

What the hell happened to Max Kellerman? There was once a time early in my career where I was telling my parents, I want to be the Max Kellerman of mma. There's a way to be appreciative about the opportunity. There's a way to hype it up without shilling and going over the top. When he starts the broadcast saying that he has literally been waiting for this moment his entire life. To have someone like Dana White come in and save boxing. It feels over the top when he starts the main card, the saying the same thing. He said the same thing twice. It feels over the top when throughout the broadcast he is continuously talking about TKO and Dana White and Nick Khan and all these people that he has close personal relationships with. Nick Khan was his agent. I get it. He's appreciative. That's his guy. I get it. The loyalty. I appreciate that. I get it. You can do that without going over the top, without sounding like a shill, without hurting your credibility. When you compare Callum Walsh to Roy Jones Jr. You are hurting your credibility. He was the guy who would get up there and give you a soliloquy on HBO Boxing and tell you like it is to see this form of him. And now I know he works for a promoter, but you could still kind of be that guy and work for the promoter. You could still do that. This is over the top. This is over the top and dare I say, unlistenable.

[Greg Cody]

So Helwani, I don't think people realize how hard it is to do everything he's done in his career. But specifically, he just called the Jake Paul fight and added a credibility to it without impacting any of his own, without undermining a production. That was an actual scam. Ariel Helwani gave none of his integrity over to what was a circus event of nonsense without anyone impugning Ariel Helwani on the job. He did. He's unbelievably qualified to say what he's saying. I did not see what happened with Max Kellerman, but when he makes the accusation, I simply believe it because he's the one making it. And he doesn't want to make it against Kellerman. He. He is being appalled watching somebody do infomercial on behalf of sports. And I'm asking you, as people in this room who know I care about journalism, there are a lot of silly conflicts, right? Greg Olson shouldn't be calling a Carolina playoff game, but I don't mind. It's a silly thing. I also don't mind what Tom Brady's doing. Don't care about that sort stuff in this sport, which is the dirtiest, which has a history of Dana White's wandering over and using all of the people involved as labor so that he can get drunk at a blackjack table and lose hundreds of thousands of dollars while not paying his fighters. To see Ariel Hawani come after Max Kellerman surprised me, at least in part because he doesn't want to do it. What are your thoughts as I tie a whole bunch of things together on the journalism of it? Greg?

[Mike]

Well, what is Max Kellerman's relationship financially with Dana White? That's the only question that I have.

[Stugats]

He's being paid to do that event.

[Greg Cody]

Ariel is being paid to do the Jake Paul event, too. That's not. I mean, he's being. Ariel's not working for free. Journalists don't work for free.

[Mike]

I understand, but. But if Dana White in any way is paying Max Kellerman, then Max Kellerman has probably an obligation to put the best possible slant on whatever he's talking about.

[Greg Cody]

Are you good with that, though? Are you good with all of it being an infomercial?

[Stugats]

I think Max is a journalist in this scenario. I think he's an analyst who's a television personality and approaches his job differently than Ariel. Now, I did not watch the broadcast. I certainly don't know enough about boxing to seize on the comparisons he's making as being ridiculous. Nor do I know enough about the boxing business to doubt whether or not Max Kellerman is actually grateful for someone like Dana White trying to come in and shake things up. It did surprise me because those are two guys in the. In the fight game that have a respect. And to see them squabbling like this publicly, well, it's just one way right now is surprising to me, especially since Ariel kind of laid it out like, you can do this to a certain degree. And throughout my mind, the entire time that clip was going, I was like, this is lofty coming from a dude that was around a Jake Paul fight, but he did toe the line.

[Mike]

I think that Max Kellerman is entitled to think more of Dana White than you do, to have a better opinion of Dana White. But if there's a financial relationship there, then Max Kellerman stops being a journalist, stops being an independent journalist.

[Greg Cody]

Okay, but look, Max Kellerman is incredibly credible on boxing. And no, he's not allowed to think that Dana White is going to come and save boxing. That's not a credible opinion coming to his life. Like, that's not credible. That's not.

[Stugats]

I don't know enough about it. If Max Kellerman tells me that, I listen.

[Mike]

So you can you think both things? Can you respect Max Kellerman and think that he's not entitled to think more of Dana?

[Greg Cody]

But when Ariel Hawani makes the accusation, how can you not arrive at the conclusion, given what I just set up for you, that Max is bought and paid for, even though I don't have the facts to tell you whether Max is bought and paid for? And I, like Mike, am ignorant about how all of this came down. I'm believing Ariel only because he's the one making the allegation and because I know he doesn't want to be making it.

[Greg]

Yeah, that. That. See, that's it for me. Like, I. I totally believe Ariel, everything that he's saying there. Because it'd be like if I came out and I was really offended and upset with things that Eddie Vedder said you would. Even if you didn't know anything about what Pearl Jam is doing right now and you didn't see the clip, you would know. If I am coming out and I am being critical and I'm hurt by the things that Eddie Vedder said, you're probably going to believe my stance.

[Unknown Sports Analyst]

There's.

[Greg]

Because I don't want to have this opinion the same way that Ariel probably does not want to be serious.

[Greg Cody]

Ariel Helwani is watching that, excited about what the broadcasters are going to do with the opportunity. And he's telling everyone who doesn't know better, hey, all of this smells fishy.

[Stugats]

Is it safe to apply the scrutiny that Ariel has? This ongoing thing with Dana probably plays a part and that this is more about Dana.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's what he's actually going.

[Stugats]

And he's just disappointed that someone that he's looked up to is aligning himself with Dana and throw. Throwing some praise on.

[Greg Cody]

So we can talk to Ariel. Ariel about this. Because I'd argue that Ariel aspires to objectivity even when it's hard. Ariel doesn't tell willingly the stories of how Dana White has bullied him. He's aspiring to an objective, fair journalism standard. Right.

[Stugats]

But we're aware of him.

[Greg Cody]

But we are aware of them because he's been asked questions where biases would appear. But the part. I'm telling you that very few people have an appreciation for how Ariel Helwani has done that job in that particular gutter that doesn't want him there. Dana White has never had any use for how Ariel Awani does his job. And Ariel Helwani bends over backward to be a thousand times fairer to Dana White than Dana White ever considers about being fair to Ariel Helwani. Ariel Helwani first and foremost cares about the combat sports. After that, he cares about how they're presented to the public. And he smelled bullshit, and he smelled bullshit bought with the credibility of Max Kellerman, and it disappointed him. And he brought that to our attention. And I'm asking the rest of the audience, do you care at all? Do you care about any of this? Or is it just Max is a television entertainer who cares whether he's bought and paid for? I don't care. I just want to enjoy my sport with the very credible Max Kellerman lending his name to it.

[Greg]

Can I ask you if it wasn't Max Kellerman, it's any other boxing analyst.

[Greg Cody]

He's the best.

[Greg]

No, no, I get it.

[Greg Cody]

I guess the best.

[Greg]

I get It. But would Ariel, even if Ariel felt that what Analyst X is saying is paid for and he's being a shill and this is unlistenable, would Ariel even be talking about this right now? And the reason I'm asking is because it's just especially hurtful to Ariel because.

[Greg Cody]

He loved Max Kellerman and boxing.

[Mike]

It's just not surprising to me that if Max Kellerman is on the payroll of Dana White, that he would be very complimentary to him. And if I'm putting it on a local level, if you're paid by the Miami Heat or any other local team, hear me, to be a broadcaster, naturally you're going to be pro Heat or your contract says I can't be critical. I understand that.

[Greg]

Not true.

[Mike]

I.

[Unknown Sports Analyst]

Okay, so, like I might be pro Heat, but there is nothing in any contract anywhere that says I can't say anything.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Unknown Sports Analyst]

I want to make that abundantly clear to everyone in the audience.

[Stugats]

Just implied.

[Mike]

But if. If you were suddenly became the critical guy, would you hear from the Heat about that?

[Unknown Sports Analyst]

I don't know. I've said critical things about individual players and where they've been at with their front office throughout this season, and I haven't heard a word.

[Mike]

Good. Good for you. I'm glad.

[Greg Cody]

Okay, but that's not. You just accused him of something and then. No, no, no, no. Good for you.

[Unknown Sports Analyst]

No, but it is different. I understand what Greg is saying, which is to say, like, obviously, like I come in with a different slant as being part of the that team broadcast and I try my best to take that hat off when I'm here, but obviously my involvement changes the way that I break down the game.

[Greg Cody]

Did you just physically take off a hat or glasses? It looked like you took off glasses. Okay. You took off a hat from here with two hands.

[Unknown Sports Analyst]

I should have done it by the bill.

[Greg Cody]

Does the hat have, like the two drinky cups in it that you can with the straws or what kind of. What's the hat look like?

[Unknown Sports Analyst]

I was thinking maybe like a top hat.

[Mike Ryan]

Okay.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Stugats]

Howdy, folks. Mike Ryan here. Quick break to talk to you about one of our show's longest, most tenured and greatest partners, Miller Lite. I love this product because so many moments were made legendary by having Miller Lite there. And it's not just the good times. Sometimes you and your pals are sad because a game didn't go your way and you take a sip of Miller Lite and you still recognize. Darn, this tastes good. And I made the right call and that that sound of cracking open that beautiful white can. It does make me feel better. Thank you. Miller Lite so many legendary moments Start with a Miller Light Miele Lite. Just fits pretty much any occasion. Clean finish, refreshing, brewed for taste with simple ingredients like malted barley. And at 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces, it never weighs you down. It's the taste that beer lovers have trusted for over 50 years. The original light beer since 1975 and still iconic today. Legendary moments start with Miller Lite. Great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[Dan Le Batard]

Listen up folks. It's game day and you already know what that means. The noise, the jerseys, the group chats, going crazy. I'm telling you, no game day is complete without the world's number one vodka. You know that. That is Smirnoff. We're talking easy cocktails, tons of flavors, perfect for every kind of fan over 21. Whether you're riding with your squad, watching from home, or celebrating like your team already won the first quarter, Smirnoff is the official vodka partner of the NFL. It's award winning and it's been bringing people together since 1864, which is basically forever. Smirnoff does game days. Big energy, big moments, big wins. Hopefully grab a bottle of Smirnoff at your local retailer and head to smirnoff.com to find a cocktail recipe perfect for game day. Please drink responsibly. Smirnoff number 21 vodka distilled from grain, 40% alcohol by volume. The Smirnoff Company New York, New York please don't share with anyone under legal drinking age. Now let's get back to arguing about refs.

[Mike Ryan]

You know, people keep asking me about my 2026 resolutions. And yeah, I got the usual stuff. You know, watch more games, complain about the power play, and pretend like my team's actually going to stay healthy.

[Mike]

Haha.

[Mike Ryan]

But this year, the one at the top of my list is simple. Get comfy. That's where Bombas comes in. They bring serious comfort to my everyday essentials. Bombers just dropped their all new sports socks engineered for running, golf, hiking, skiing, snowboarding, basically whatever you're pretending you're about to be really into. And I'm trying to stay active. This year by playing hockey. I need these socks. It has cushioning where you need it. It's sweat wicking, solid support. No distractions, just comfort. And for the everyday stuff, Bomber's footwear has you covered. Sunday slippers for staying in, Friday sandals for quick errands. And the new Saturday suede slip ons for when you want comfort but still need to leave the house. Premium everyday go tos I don't really think about, which is kind of the point. And for every item you buy, Bombas donates one to someone facing housing insecurity. One bought one donated over 150 million items so far. Head over to bombas.com dkn and use code dkn for 20% off your first purchase. That's B O M B A S.com dkn code dkn at checkout.

[Greg Cody]

Don LeBatard.

[Mike]

What do I got here? I got a Magnum condom. We won't get that out.

[Greg Cody]

That's shocking.

[Stugats]

Stugats.

[Mike]

Here's a picture of Christopher when he was like three years old.

[Greg Cody]

Right next to the condom.

[Stugats]

Yeah.

[Greg Cody]

Never forget it. This is the Dan Levitar show with the Stugach.

[Stugats]

Fascinating discussion. I wish I wasn't showing my ass on it. I don't know enough about these things. I find it curious that two people that I have immense respect for seem to have an issue here, but I don't feel comfortable weighing in. I don't know jack shit about boxing.

[Unknown Sports Analyst]

I think that if, if, if Pablo Torre was the example here, right? If Pablo joined a team broadcast for say, the Clippers and then all of a sudden Pablo was spewing all sorts of positive information about Steve Ballmer or about the Memphis Grizzlies owner because he was joining the Grizzlies broadcast. That would be akin to what Ariel is trying to say here with what's going on with Dana White. This is someone who was an independent, respected journalist within boxing with Max, right? He is someone who was independent and respected and then he's now lending his voice to a bias. It's not. He started through that process and then became independent. And I think that's the disappointment that Ariel is talking about. There was a standard that he expected and now he views that Max is bought and paid for. And that's the disappointing part. Specifically, when it's someone like Dana White.

[Stugats]

There is a credibility and a benefit of the doubt that we're extending to Ariel too, just because we know him a little bit more than than Max on this show. Not you, Dan. I me, I do. But like I don't even know the boxer that he compared to Roy Jones Jr. And how that's offensive. But if Max wanted to turn around and say you lended your credibility to that program on Netflix, I'd sit back and be like, whoa, that seems like a pretty good counterpunch.

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, but he didn't do it this way. And when Ariel is filing this criticism, we'll get. Evidently we have some sound here. Ariel hosted a show in the system of Max Kellerman responding to this. But I'm going to. I'll move off the subject in a second because I really don't think people care about this the way that we do or I do. But I do care about boxing. I do care about how labor in that sport is forever contaminated and corrupted by how dirty the entirety of the sport is. And I am also bothered that wife punching Dana White is going to the White House now as a political figure of great power, as he helps run Paramount, which has been running into the ground because they need young people and now have a news department that you see what it's happening to because the media is susceptible and hold on a second, Mike, before you come in here, because I want to get. I'll talk to Ariel about.

[Stugats]

File an objection. Gratuitous.

[Greg Cody]

I also love Max Kellerman and admire Max Kellerman and have never heard him of accused of anything like this by anybody credible. Nevermind as credible as Ariel Helwani. And he's leaving ESPN after a couple of years in a dying climate where he's teaming with Rich Paul and Dana White for whatever it is that his next steps are because the media has died in a way that the Washington Post isn't sending baseball writers to spring training. That was a champion a few years ago. The Nationals were a World Series champion. That's not being covered by the Washington Post beat writers this, this spring training. And I don't think anybody cares about what it is that's happening. When it's going to be harder and harder to discern between Ariel Helwani, Max Kellerman and anyone else you care about in the media. Hey, who's bought here and who isn't? Like that's my larger concern. I'm just using these two guys as avatars. I love the both of them. I respect the both of them. I know the both of them. And I find shocking to see two people of this kind of credibility, Ariel this kind of disappointed. I find that I do legitimately find it shocking cuz he's going at the very top of the food chain. Max Kellerman is as credible as anyone who has ever talked about boxing, period.

[Mike]

And is he entitled, though, to have a financial relationship with Dana White, or does that make you just totally write him off as someone not worthy of your respect? I don't. I don't know the answer to that.

[Greg Cody]

All right, I'll try and get Max in the next couple of days. I'll try to get Ariel. Let's just listen to what Ariel is saying. Is Max Kellerman excessively gushing? Let's play the sound of that where people are now. Max, understand what's happened here, and I've not talked to Max about any of this recently. I've been trying to get a hold of Max, and so I don't know. These recent steps in Max Kellerman's career are interesting because ESPN paid for Max Kellerman to go away for a while, and so he did not talk sports for almost two years. Paid for by espn. ESPN tried to do the same thing to us. I was worried about sitting out that amount of time and having the media change so much that we would be totally irrelevant if it was two straight years of silence. Max Kellerman, in what is a dying media climate with fewer and fewer of these jobs available, pops back up with Rich, Paul and Clutch, and I believe that's a ringer. That's a ringer production, right? That's a Bill Simmons production and pops up in select boxing promotions. And here's him talking about this fight. Let's listen to the sound.

[Greg]

I have literally been waiting for this.

[Stugats]

For right now my entire life. Since I was a little kid. There's never been a major league of boxing. It just hasn't existed.

[Greg Cody]

Hey, you know what they should do in football?

[Stugats]

Million football leagues. You're talking about the NFL. You're talking about Roger Goodell.

[Greg]

You're talking about the NBA.

[Stugats]

There is no they in boxing.

[Greg Cody]

There never has been.

[Stugats]

Hey, you know what they should do in mma? You're talking about Dana White and the ufc. It is a brand that you know and trust. When you sit down and you watch a ufc, UFC event, you know, the investment of your time, it was time well spent. And that's what we are hoping to do here at Zufa Boxing.

[Greg Cody]

What are you laughing about?

[Mike Ryan]

New Edition.

[Greg Cody]

I was.

[Stugats]

I didn't even hear a word he said.

[Greg Cody]

The music.

[Stugats]

I was just cooling it now.

[Greg Cody]

You were too busy jamming.

[Greg]

I wanted to go roller skating.

[Dan Le Batard]

Just wanted to hear Tess's voice.

[Stugats]

What a booth. I'm gonna watch that.

[Dan Le Batard]

That was Ariel's point. Ariel's point in that clip is just this booth is like as good as you can put together in boxing. And then they're just losing credibility.

[Stugats]

Thanks for putting it on my radar. I think I'll catch the next guard. We just like it when guys fight.

[Greg Cody]

I will try to ask some of these questions in the next couple of days of Ariel Helwani because he was put off by it in a way that took me aback. Also taking me aback. Speaking of sports media members, Stephen A. Smith. Smith has suggested that the Steelers should have hired Ryan Clark. Now, can you guys tell me I'm paraphrasing here. I don't have the sound in front of me. It was fairly shocking, I believe, to see Mike McCarthy hired by the Steelers even though we heard his name involved. No, I don't know.

[Greg]

Let's say shocking. I mean, Mike McCarthy was going to get another job. He's had success. He's won a Super bowl and had several 12 win.

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, Brian Bilek won a Super bowl too. And it's weird to me Brian Bilek had Jon Gruden's resume. And it's weird to me that Brian Billock hasn't gotten a second chance while Mike McCarthy, who is benign and can. Is easy to rehire, ends up getting the job. But you make what of Stephen A. Smith saying that Ryan Clark should have had a shot at that job with no experience in head.

[Greg]

I don't understand. I don't understand how that's serious, but I think Stephen A. Was being serious. He said it yesterday on first take. He said it right to Ryan Clark on the show. Said, I think the Steelers should have given Ryan Clark a hard look as head coach. I just.

[Dan Le Batard]

He's never been shot to his credibility.

[Stugats]

If you ask me.

[Greg]

He's never been a coach. He's never coached. I don't understand.

[Mike]

I've never heard Ryan Clark referred to as a head coaching candidate or on anybody's list or anything else.

[Greg Cody]

Oh, but you guys say this with Philip Rivers. You guys say he's not. But Lewis Riddick. Look, man, this is funny, right? This, this part's interesting. Diana, Diana just gave away the game earlier very quietly when she said, I'm not calling anybody this time of year. I'm getting the calls people want to hear come out of my mouth. This is a candidate and some of this lazy enough to. Yeah, hire Lewis Riddick every time. And I'm not disparaging, but he's working the front office. Yes, but he's just on television, like hire the. Hire the broadcaster who's on television because that's someone who talks football. And therefore I think he's more famous than the other guy who might have had an assistant coaching job at, you know, Wake Forest.

[Mike]

But I've heard Louis Riddick referred to as a potential NFL head coach in a way that I haven't with Ryan.

[Greg Cody]

General manager, general manager, not head coach.

[Stugats]

People have no idea how much this is driven by agents. How the people making the decisions are repped by agents that also rep coaches. And if an agent really wants a client to become considered a star in that coaching rank, they will be. They will be a head man.

[Greg Cody]

That part is interesting, having seen it. From who? The only agent I've ever had repped coaches and got James Franklin that deal and helped Urban Meyer get those deals and was coach. He was running a business that just helped these guys become important people. But as it relates to the Ariel Helwani sound, very quietly in the middle of that a name that no one seems to care about that he threw out as part of this cabal that runs with Dana White is Nick Khan. And these guys have in the wrestling program and the combat programming, the things that Paramount wants. They've got young men. These guys are running a cabal. Nick Khan ran ESPN got tired of using a whole Nick Khan was basically the person who was producing all of the ESPN talent that Skipper was hiring. And then ESPN stopped doing that. And then the both of them went elsewhere. I mean, because Nick Khan used up all of Bristol.

[Stugats]

And like Nick Khan, Ariel was repped by Nick Khan.

[Greg Cody]

Nick Khan. I don't think that people hear in that sound that what Ariel is saying that Nick Khan is the middle of a cabal that now is Netflix wrestling program. Nick Khan is a beast in the business. I don't think anybody knows that.

[Stugats]

I don't think has been for decades plus multiple decades.

[Greg Cody]

And moved from taking all the money from ESPN to saying, oh, it's new now let me run the WWE and let me run Netflix and let me run Paramount. Because all of these institutions don't actually know how to get young people. Nick Khan does wrestling in the combat sports. Have them fight fake or real? Have them fight fake.

[Greg]

You're fake.

[Greg Cody]

You excited about Royal Rumble?

[Greg]

Oh, my God, am I excited. Riyadh, Saudi Royal Rumble this Saturday. Come on, Greg, get excited. It's the road to WrestleMania. I'm very excited.

[Mike]

What's wrong with sports washing? Let's hide our blood money in fights. Let's do it. Nothing wrong with that. We all love Saudi Arabia now. Tennis matches golf tournaments. Put them all over there.

[Unknown Sports Analyst]

Sources Per Adam Schefter, the Bills are working to finalize a deal to make offensive coordinator Joe Brady their new head coach.

[Greg Cody]

Woof.

[Stugats]

Internal Interesting.

[Greg]

So everyone's deploying AI agents now. They're automating tasks, running workflows, making decisions, basically moving faster than anyone can keep up with. And when they work, it's great. But when they don't, they delete the wrong files, make changes you didn't authorize, or just go completely, completely rogue. That's the scary part of AI it lets you move fast and break way more things in way less time. Rubric Agent Cloud is the only platform that allows you to monitor, govern and rewind AI agent actions. One platform to help you unleash more agents faster without the risk it's running in the background the whole time, giving you full visibility, enforcing guardrails and making sure agents agents don't go off script. This is why hospitals banks are turning to Rubrik Agent Cloud. It's real AI resilience that doesn't slow innovation. If your business relies on AI agents, you need the ability to modern govern and rewind their actions. Right now. Le Batard show listeners get exclusive early access to Rubrik Agent cloud. Head to rubrik.com that's R U B R I K.

[Greg Cody]

Love the Night Reach.

[Stugats]

For Zyn After Dark, a limited cocktail inspired series for those who get up when the sun goes down, try Zinn's Mojito Spiced Cider and Espresso Martini Nicotine Pouches.

[Greg Cody]

Find them at select retailers available while supplies last. Zinn After Dark Bring on the night Warning this product contains nicotine.

[Stugats]

Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

[Unknown Sports Analyst]

Super Bowl 60 deserves a sportsbook built for the moment.

[Stugats]

DraftKings Sportsbook an official sports betting partner of Super Bowl 60. When anything can happen in the biggest game of the year, DraftKings has your back with early exit. If a player goes down in the first half, you can still get paid out in cash immediately once your bet settles. No bonus bets, no waiting. New DraftKings customers can bet just 5 bucks and get 300 bucks in bonus bets. If your bet wins, download the DraftKings sportsbook app now and use code DAN. That's code DAN to turn five bucks into 300 bucks in bonus bets. If your bet wins in partnership with DraftKings, the Crown is yours.

[Greg Cody]

Gambling problem call 1-800-Gambler.

[Dan Le Batard]

New York call 877-8-HOPE and why or.

[Greg Cody]

Text HOPE and WHY Connecticut. Call 888-789-7-7777 or visit ccpg.org on behalf.

[Dan Le Batard]

Of Boot Hill Casino in Kansas. Wager tax pass through May apply in.

[Greg Cody]

Illinois 21 and over in most states. Void in Ontario. Restrictions apply.

[Dan Le Batard]

Bet must win to rece bonus bets which expire in seven days.

[Greg Cody]

Minimum odds required for additional terms and.

[Dan Le Batard]

Responsible gaming resources see dkng co audio limited time offer.

[Greg Cody]

Don LeBatard.

[Mike]

He called me on my own podcast. He called me full of shit claiming that I'm faking interest in the solar eclipse.

[Greg Cody]

Do.

[Unknown Sports Analyst]

Do this.

[Dan Le Batard]

You love to just get excited about everything.

[Mike]

Junior stugats. I had to school you and explain.

[Greg Cody]

To you he was going to take you to Augusta.

[Mike]

I mean when I was 17 years old, Alan Sherry and I used to haunt the Bueller Planetarium.

[Mike Ryan]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the stugats.

[Greg]

Back to Royal Rumble. Dan, what do you think? Who do you think comes out of the men's rumble? Give us a pick.

[Unknown Sports Analyst]

Come on.

[Greg Cody]

I thought that they were gonna go magic creative content when. When Cody just started wandering to. We might bone sawing journalists.

[Stugats]

Right. I have for the record, not with that at all. But also like my view of like all the Saudi thing. I think they've effectively flooded the zone. There is also like where am I coming from really? Where's my moral high ground as an American to be saying they're not doing something right? Gotta clean up my own house here a little bit.

[Greg]

I don't get my morals from wwe. Like I know what I'm into. It doesn't offend me. Like it is what I separate the two.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Greg]

Yeah.

[Mike]

I get.

[Greg]

I get people who are mad about. I understand but you get mad.

[Greg Cody]

You get why they're mad about the bone sawing of journalists and why America also doesn't have the high ground.

[Stugats]

Yeah. We're also treating journalists poorly here. Not quite bone sawing yet, but you know we are killing protesters.

[Greg]

Yes.

[Stugats]

These days.

[Mike]

Fair comment.

[Stugats]

I just. I think the days of us looking down on our nose at other people.

[Greg]

That's what I'm saying.

[Stugats]

Has been gone. And by other people, I mean wrestling fans.

[Greg Cody]

Why is Greg Cody smirking? I don't know what you're smirking about. Is it that you like. Is it that you're delighted by your own Saudi Arabia excited for the rumble? Is it because you don't want to talk about wrestling and are laughing? It's as I don't. The smirk on your face when I keep saying bone sawing of a journalist is weird to me and is part of how it is. We're all complicit in the sports blood washing of the money.

[Mike Ryan]

Right?

[Mike]

Well, it used to be an outrage, and five years later, it's not. I'm smiling at just how far we've come on that. And part of it, I think, is what Mike just said. He's not wrong. I mean, we have enough problems in this country where our moral high ground is not nearly as high as it used to be or should be.

[Greg Cody]

But you, you pranced around with a rhythmic gymnastics ribbon of just a second ago virtue signaling how appalled you are by it while also profiting off it. Because sports makes money for all of us.

[Mike]

I still believe what I said. And it's just not the collective outrage that it was. I mean, when Liv golf.

[Greg Cody]

That's because the sports washing of the money was successful.

[Mike]

That's why. I know, I know. And I.

[Greg Cody]

They bought what they wanted to buy, which is the extinguishing of us. Always talking about the bone sawing of a jury.

[Stugats]

You can't follow certain mainstream sports without having to watch something emanating from Riyadh or.

[Mike]

Jeff Agreed. Because that's where all the money is. I get that. Tennis, golf, wrestling, all of it is over there. It doesn't mean we can't condemn it. It doesn't mean that it's okay.

[Greg Cody]

But it's not really condemnation, though, the way that's not what's happening anymore. It's been successfully. Sports Washed like this just came to comedy recently and a few people weren't aware of what the ramifications would be that Bill Burr among them, a whole bunch of people. As Chappelle does a new special where he's explaining, well, we've killed journalists in Palestine as well. He makes the joke. I thought we weren't counting anymore for making the same point you guys about. Are making about America has no moral high grounds here. But it's been successfully. Sports washed the blood money over the last five years. We yelled a lot about Liv and Mickelson and then just stopped doing it because the money, the oil.

[Dan Le Batard]

Brooks Koepka, welcome back.

[Greg Cody]

The oil money did buy everyone off. Everyone got bought off by the oil.

[Stugats]

It's so American to silo Saudi Arabia and judge them. We just had Pablo on who was reporting on a story about how the owner of the Memphis Grizzlies is involved in Russian drones. We gotta look at ourselves here a little bit.

[Greg Cody]

Okay, so let me. Let me bring it back to that for a second and forgive me, because I do know and the audience has made it known at every turn. And this is a bit conflicting to me because I also know that the audience rides with us because many people do care about the stuff that we're talking about and funding because the work that Pablo Torre is doing is good, it's expensive, and it's not anything that anyone else in this space is doing. When I ask Pablo and us, how do we get that Hunter Brooks story in front of people in a way that isn't as easy as, oh, look, Kawhi and the Clippers might have done this, or sports gambling might have this. Things that everyone can understand. When I make it war against foreigners, that is literally life and death. And I present to you. How do I get in front of people on espn? Hey, the Memphis Grizzlies owner. Like we talk a lot about John, who they're benching and just bullshit. The Memphis Grizzlies owner through six months of independent journalistic investigation. That is harder to do today than it's been at any time by Hunter Brooke. How do I get that in front of people and makes the sports media talk about something difficult? Because the debate shows aren't gonna do.

[Stugats]

This one Editorially though, if that comes across your desk. Yeah, we may put a blurb on there, but I don't think there's gonna be interest in that. You're gonna have far more interest in where Ja Morant is going right now. Because when people go to their stories about the Memphis Grizzlies, they're looking for departure. They're not looking to be reminded of how bad things are. Oh, here's another bad thing. So I can get further depressed. Yeah, I can think about bonesaws or I can think about how Rusev is gonna do in the Royal rumble.

[Greg]

Roman Reigns +175 to win the Rumble. He's the favorite.

[Greg Cody]

Dan, it's not. Journalism's not supposed to. Not supposed to be ideally governed by. How do I get the clicks? It's supposed to be governed by how do you follow truth in the name of facts? Pointing out to people injustices. It's how it dies. You do realize.

[Stugats]

How do you amplify the truth?

[Mike Ryan]

Truth.

[Stugats]

Because the truth is out there. Shout out to the X Files. But Pablo is reporting on that. These things come across newsrooms and an editor will sit with his staff and parse whether or not they run with it. Whether or not it's a 30 second blurb on their NBA studio show or a feature that they do.

[Mike]

For me, it's okay. The Grizzlies owner is committing a crime of morality.

[Greg Cody]

Perhaps well, hold on a second, though. As alleged by Hunter Brooke. And it's not. It wouldn't be merely a crime of morality the way that Pablo set this up. I mean, we're talking about aiding with war crimes. It's not. It's not just a crime of morality.

[Mike]

Okay, but. But what is the. In a report like this, I always wait a heartbeat for the repercussion. Is the US Government going to do something about this owner.

[Greg Cody]

Owner.

[Mike]

Is Adam Silver going to do something about that Silver? Are there. Are there any parameters whatsoever governing what owners can do?

[Greg Cody]

The only way your questions get answered is if the journalism gets amplified, obviously. Like, it can't just be. We skip past this six hours from now because it's the trade deadline. Talk like, you have to keep putting this on Silver's desk.

[Mike]

And I didn't say there wasn't. Listen, don't ask like, act like I'm being adversary here. But I'm saying, what will the repercussion be?

[Greg Cody]

You're sitting it out as somebody who's got a journalistic platform saying, I'm gonna wait for Silver to handle it. And I'm asking you, how do we get this amplified? Because it's difficult work to do.

[Mike]

I hope the Miami Herald follows this up and.

[Greg Cody]

No, you don't.

[Mike]

And puts it on their front page.

[Stugats]

That's not fair. He's doing the exact same thing you're doing. What you're doing isn't like this, like huge suffering. You're saying someone talk about this like he's. He's co signing.

[Greg Cody]

No, no. I'm actually, I'm actually trying to fund the work with everything we're doing around here.

[Stugats]

Understood. That's different.

[Greg Cody]

And I'm legitimately asking you guys the question of how do you keep this alive when you're going to tell me people aren't that interested in it. And I'm like, they kind of should and need to be.

[Stugats]

Right.

[Greg Cody]

That's the importance of the work.

[Mike]

Right. I would like to think the US Government has an interest in this report.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's hilarious.

[Mike Ryan]

Yes.

[Unknown Sports Analyst]

Because the US Government caring about helping Russia, this administration.

[Mike]

Here's the problem. This is the problem.

[Unknown Sports Analyst]

Adam Silver is more likely to punish him than the US Government.

[Mike]

I'm not disagreeing with you. Which is sad. I mean, ostensibly we're pro Ukraine in this war that Russia instigated, but we also know that Trump has a relationship with Putin that dare say is a little bit cozier than we'd all like. Perhaps. So what's going to happen I was.

[Greg Cody]

Really filled with qualifiers that are unnecessary.

[Mike]

Like okay.

[Greg Cody]

I mean honestly the way the standard has been dropped so that you have to end into those waters with relationship with Putin is maybe clue it's a relationship with Putin. He's like trying to take over. We've gone really soft.

[Dan Le Batard]

Dan just used the move that I use with my daughter whenever she questions anything. I'm like, hey, I pay for everything around here.

[Stugats]

You owe nothing.

[Greg Cody]

You owe nothing.

[Stugats]

Shut me up.

[Greg Cody]

We pay for. No, look the royal we Trump has.

[Mike]

Also had meetings with Zelensky in the White House. Ostensibly we favor Ukraine in this war. That's why I think the government needs to do something.

[Stugats]

Look what you got him doing now. You're proud of yourself. Look what you got Greg Cody doing. You got him talking about Ukraine. God.

[Junior Stugats]

Gunther.

[Greg]

Plus 200 to win the rumble.

[Mike Ryan]

Breaking news out of Fort Lauderdale. This from Jordan McPherson on the Miami Herald. Tomas Nok, Jonah Gajevich, Dmitri Kulikov and Alexander Barkov on the ice today doing stick and puck drills following the Panthers morning skate.

[Stugats]

We are honestly appreciate a lot of those guys are champions. Champions could have just led with barcode.

[Greg]

That's the news I've been waiting for.

[Mike Ryan]

Balkoff's the punchline.

[Greg]

There it is what I'm talking about.

[Dan Le Batard]

What do they mean by that? How long till he plays?

[Mike Ryan]

Probably in another couple months.

[Greg]

You know what I mean?

[Mike]

Second, second round of the playoffs.

[Greg]

That means bad news for us league.

[Greg Cody]

He said a couple of months. Did you hear him say a couple of months? It's all happening.

[Mike Ryan]

But before the playoffs, before the debt.

[Greg Cody]

You think before the playoff.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah.

[Stugats]

That's good.

[Greg]

About to trade for Panarin.

[Stugats]

He said second round. Do you think it's going to be AJ Styles last match? I'm not ready to say goodbye.

[Greg]

AJ is going to win.

[Stugats]

You think he's going to win?

[Greg]

I think he's going to let all.

[Stugats]

The air out of this Gunther thing.

[Greg]

I think Gunther then wins the Rumble.

[Stugats]

But wait, no. He's like this legend killer. He can't retire John Cena and then be like Rumble.

[Greg]

He main events Wrestlemania. Nobody's going to care that he lost A.J. styles.

[Stugats]

He needs to be a believable monster. That also retires Brock Lesnar. He can't trip up against the undersized heavyweight.

[Greg Cody]

Wait, Joe Brady. It's an odd one.