Hour 2: The D.C. Plane Crash Tragedy (feat. Jeff Wise)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz Episode: Hour 2: The D.C. Plane Crash Tragedy (feat. Jeff Wise)
Release Date: January 30, 2025

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Introduction

In this poignant episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz, the hosts delve into the tragic plane crash that recently shook the nation. Featuring aviation journalist Jeff Wise, the conversation navigates through the intricacies of aviation safety, systemic flaws, and the broader implications of governmental actions on critical infrastructure.

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The Tragic Plane Crash and Immediate Reactions

Mike Ryan opens the discussion by addressing the devastating news:

"Many of you woke up this morning to a crash that it seems confirmed now that there aren't going to be any survivors. It's very close to confirm that 64 people on board an American Airlines flight and three service members in the army chopper that crashed into it. There will be no survivors."
(Timestamp: 01:18)

This sets the stage for a deep dive into the factors contributing to such a catastrophe.

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Insights from Jeff Wise: Aviation Expertise and Analysis

Jeff Wise, a seasoned aviation journalist and host of the podcast Finding MH370, provides expert analysis on the incident.

Rarity and Nature of the Crash

Jeff emphasizes the unusual nature of the crash:

"It's rare. And it's not rare in the sense that there hasn't been a collision, a midair collision between a US Commercial airliner and another aircraft in flight. The most recent one I could find was in the 80s."
(Timestamp: 02:20)

He highlights the infrequency of such events while acknowledging the increasing number of near misses in recent years.

Systemic Flaws and Leadership Breaches

The conversation shifts to systemic issues within the aviation industry:

"Many of you woke up this morning to a crash ... it's very close to confirm that there aren't going to be any survivors."
(Reiterating the gravity)

Jeff discusses how complacency and cost-cutting measures can erode safety standards:

"Maybe I'll save a little bit of money, maybe I'll cut a corner here, maybe I'll, like, push the boundaries a little bit there, and you can whittle away ... until it just breaks."
(Timestamp: 04:10)

He draws parallels to Boeing's shift from a safety-centric culture to one obsessed with shareholder value, leading to tragic outcomes.

Impact of Government Turnover on Aviation Safety

Addressing recent governmental changes, Jeff asserts:

"The director of the FAA, resigned on the day of the inauguration. What kind of impact does that have on a situation like this? ... it did something over the last few days caused this."
(Timestamp: 05:19)

He argues that the sudden removal of experienced officials hampers the FAA's ability to maintain stringent safety protocols.

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Broader Implications on American Systems

The discussion broadens to critique the state of American infrastructure and governance. Jeff Wise underscores the fragility of systems built on meticulous standards:

"Safety is really boring. You know, it's all about being meticulous ... and doing checklists ... and meticulously recording where every part of every aircraft comes from."
(Timestamp: 03:24)

He warns against the dangers of undermining these foundational practices through political interference and budget cuts.

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Hosts' Reactions and Political Discourse

As the conversation unfolds, the hosts engage in a heated debate about the intersection of politics and systemic failures.

Mike Ryan voices frustration over perceived leadership voids:

"We're living in an insane world ... Everything's gone crazy."
(Timestamp: 13:04)

Amin Elhassan draws analogies between government operations and managing a restaurant, emphasizing that foundational responsibilities cannot be neglected:

"There are certain systems that ... can't do that. ... We're not going to pay the power bill."
(Timestamp: 25:13)

The dialogue intensifies as they discuss the ramifications of firing 3,000 air traffic controllers and the broader impact of such decisions on national safety.

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Systemic Failures and Accountability

The hosts critically examine the repercussions of recent administrative actions:

"If we did away with the entire shipping container and brought in new people here, there's no way the show would be smooth running the next day. It's just, it's common sense."
(Timestamp: 26:32)

Jeff Wise reiterates the inevitability of accidents stemming from systemic weaknesses:

"Accidents don't happen just by bad luck. They're a result of systemic flaws."
(Timestamp: 09:05)

The conversation underscores the essential role of experienced professionals in maintaining critical systems and the dangers of abrupt, politically motivated personnel changes.

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Conclusion and Takeaways

In wrapping up, Dan LeBatard reflects on the importance of understanding and valuing the often-overlooked systems that ensure safety and efficiency in everyday life:

"These are things that Americans totally take for granted. And they don't know what they don't know."
(Timestamp: 26:32)

The episode serves as a sobering reminder of the intricate balance required to maintain national safety and the profound impact of political decisions on these foundational systems.

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Notable Quotes

• Mike Ryan:
  "It's a result of systemic flaws. ... So who to blame? Who should we get angry at?"
  (02:20)

• Jeff Wise:
  "Safety is really boring. ... it's all about being meticulous."
  (03:24)

• Amin Elhassan:
  "We're not gonna pay the power bill. You can't do that, right?"
  (25:13)

• Dan LeBatard:
  "These are things that Americans totally take for granted."
  (26:32)

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz poignantly captures the intersection of tragedy, systemic integrity, and political influence. Through informed discussion and expert insights, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the complexities that underpin national safety and the far-reaching consequences of policy decisions.

Transcript

[Dan LeBatard]

You're listening to giraffkings Network.

[Stugotz]

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[Dan LeBatard]

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[Stugotz]

This is the Dan Levator show with the Stugats podcast.

[Mike Ryan]

I have been telling you recently, among my many fears, that it seems like some basic American systems are just failing. Things are failing and getting worse. And overnight. Many of you woke up this morning to a crash that it seems confirmed now that there aren't going to be any survivors. It's very close to confirm that 64 people on board an American Airlines flight and three service members in the army chopper that crashed into it. There will be no survivors. Jeff Wise is a longtime aviation journalist. He's the host of the podcast finding MH370. And we have had recently 400 senior FAA officials, the head of the TSA, and 3,000 air traffic controllers were fired as recently as a week ago. Jeff, without making this about politics, can you just tell me how rare this is and what kind of leadership breaches might cause it?

[Jeff Wise]

Well, that's a great question. It's rare. And it's not rare in the sense that there hasn't been a collision, a midair collision between a US Commercial airliner and another aircraft in flight. The most recent one I could find was in the 80s. And so in that sense it's really rare. But there have been all of these near misses reported in recent years and there's been a lot of concern. You know, if you go into the pilot forums, a lot of foreign pilots are think that we're crazy, that we're just cowboys and we're just very reckless with aircraft separation. So it's been a long, long standing issue, and people have been calling out for changes for a number of years now. And so in that sense, it's not unexpected in a sense.

[Mike Ryan]

So can you tell me, though, when things like this happen and people get helpless and they get angry, they want to assign blame and they want to blame people in charge and hold them accountable. What happened here?

[Jeff Wise]

Well, safety is really boring. You know, it's all about being meticulous, crossing your T's and dotting your I's and doing and going through checklists and like, meticulously recording where every part of every aircraft comes from. And what you get at the end of all that hard work is nothing, you know, nothing happens. And so. And so people will just take for granted that I'm going to get on the plane, I'm going to get to where I'm going. And it's so easy when you take things for granted to say, well, maybe I'll save a little bit of money, maybe I'll cut a corner here, maybe I'll, like, you know, push the boundaries a little bit there, and you can whittle away and whittle away at a system until it just, it breaks. So you go from complacency to sheer terror very quickly, as we've seen here. So who to blame? Who should we get angry at? Well, you know, I'll just make one observation. It's really easy to say that the US Government doesn't do anything for me. I give you all my tax money and I don't get anything. And you just take for granted that there's roads under the wheels of your car, and you take for granted that you're safe. One of the things that the US Government is to provide air traffic control, and the main original purpose for air traffic control was to prevent aircraft from running into each other. The whole system was. Was spawned by this actually midair collision that took place in 1956 over the Grand Canyon. And people started to think, maybe we should find a way to have planes not run into each other. That happens, as I said, through a result of really boring hard work. And so maybe this idea that regulation is bad, government is bad, we can just. I'll just cowboy it myself. I'll just. I'll just get on that plane and, you know, just through my own hard work, you know, and cowboy ness, I will make this plane get to where it's going, you know, on its own. That's not how it works. And we all have to play together nicely. And you basically have to pay somebody that knows what they're doing to tell you where, how these planes can go their separate ways.

[Amin Elhassan]

Jeff, the director of the FAA, resigned on the day of the inauguration. What kind of impact does that have on a situation like this?

[Jeff Wise]

You know, nothing. I mean, frankly, really. I mean, listen, I'm not happy about it. I think, I don't think the government should be run this way by just sort of throwing people out the window, as it were. But safety takes time. And it's the year. It's years of accumulation, years of experience, you know, and it's. I'll tell you this, it's always tempting to get rid of the expensive people first. And who are the expensive people? People with seniority. The people who've been doing it for year in and year out who are really good. You talk about false economy, right? The idea that maybe you're saving a penny here and there, but what's it costing you? And so getting rid of the faa, the head of the faa, a couple days ago, did that have a direct impact on what happened last night? No, but it's an example of the kind of decision making that accumulated, causes people to die. People to die. There's this old saying that regulations are written in blood. And it sounds kind of dramatic, but it's really true. And we've seen something recently that this from all reminds me of, which is that for years, decades, Boeing worked really hard to make really good, safe aircraft. And it cost them a lot of money. They paid top dollar for their engineers and they kept people on, and it was a real culture. And then some bean counters came in, and this has been, you know, meticulously documented elsewhere, but they wanted to save money, they wanted to give more. There's this kind of dogma in American business especially, but the whole culture really, which is that the shareholder value is the most important thing. Shareholder value means the price of our stock is the only thing that actually matters. Everything else is secondary, including customer satisfaction, passenger safety, all that stuff. It's communist, actually, if you, if you look, go back to Milton Friedman in 1970, it's communist to be concerned about anything other than share price. And what happens is, you start, you know, Boeing owned the aircraft manufacturing business. They had to share it with Airbus eventually, but they had, they had the goose that laid the golden egg.

[Mike Ryan]

They were safe. They were safe. They were known as safe, period.

[Jeff Wise]

And you start to trim a little bit here, cut a little bit there. You know, you move your work, you move, you outsource your production you outsource your engineering and you lose track of what the hell's happening. And all of a sudden you've got windows flying out, doors flying out, and, you know, it's really hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube once you've gotten away from that culture. And, you know, these guys eventually lose their jobs, but they get millions of dollars payouts and everything, so they're fine.

[Mike Ryan]

Okay, great. Wonderful. So let's do this in a different way. Jeff, how long have you been an aviation journalist?

[Jeff Wise]

Well, I got my pilot's license in 2002, and so I started to write about crashes. I wrote about the 2009 Air France 447, and then that kind of.

[Mike Ryan]

So about 20 years. About 20 years you've been doing this? Yeah, a little.

[Jeff Wise]

23 years.

[Mike Ryan]

Okay. And you, you do it. Why? Your care or your passion come from where?

[Jeff Wise]

I'm a nerd. You know, you can't explain it.

[Amin Elhassan]

Okay.

[Mike Ryan]

All right. So the reason I asked the question, though, the state of the industry that results in this crash. Is this a one off or is this something that sets alarm bells off for your expertise on. No, we're doing stuff here where we're freezing. Air traffic control hires last week, and this is emblematic of something.

[Jeff Wise]

Well, they say that if you see a cockroach, you don't have a cockroach. You have a thousand cockroaches. And again, we've seen. We've seen near misses. You know, the warning signs have been there, and now we're finally. The bill is coming due and the entire system. Accidents don't happen just by bad luck. They're a result of systemic flaws. And so the system is flawed right now, and we need to. It takes money. I'm sorry, but if you want to get from A to B safely, you can do it cheaply and crazily and, you know, haphazardly, or you can spend the money that needs to be spent. Government is necessary here.

[Mike Ryan]

But more flawed than it's been in your experience over 20 years, or is there no way to quantify that, even with your expertise? Like, I'm just curious if there's something in the system that you've noted beyond the crash that spending or investigation documents that we're in a greater state of disrepair here than we have been in your experience doing this.

[Jeff Wise]

Well, in my direct experience. No, I mean, I fly little planes. I fly like Cessnas and things, so. And when I talk to. I'm incredibly. You know, my experience of the US Aviation system is that it is full of extremely competent people who take their job very seriously and really are doing the best and have achieved incredible things. I mean, it's a. It's a miracle. I mean, if you go back 100 years and you said, you know, to your great grandfather, oh, we're going to be flying, you know, from New York to LA for a couple hundred bucks, and you're, like, going to be almost guaranteed safety, he wouldn't believe it. So, overall, I have enormous faith in the system, but there's always. There are risks that occur. It's always tempting to cut corners because you don't see the danger until you've got people pulling dead bodies out of the river.

[Mike Ryan]

His podcast is called finding MH370. An investigation by the New York Times in 2023 found 300 close calls near airports nationwide, and they were the result of human error. 300 of those is the average passenger in more danger today on takeoff and landing than he or she was before.

[Jeff Wise]

So if I had been on that plane coming in to land last night, I would have said to myself, I am essentially completely safe. Like, I'm like, they. They always say, like, you're more likely to. To die on the road, the drive to the airport than in the plane. But I would have been wrong. We. We thought we were safer than we turned out to be.

[Mike Ryan]

Is there a problem specifically with the traffic at Reagan International?

[Jeff Wise]

This airport is a small airport. It's very close to the city center. It. The FAA has been complaining for a long time that it has more traffic than it can really bear, and yet it is under constant pressure from lawmakers to add more flights because they want to get back to where they came from for holidays and whatnot. In fact, this particular plane that crashed last night was flying a route that was only added last year because of pressure from a congressman from Kansas. And this is, you know, this is kind of an inherently flawed dynamic, right, where you have an airport that is being used by the lawmakers who make the all. They're responsible for all the laws covering the entire country, including the entire aviation system. And they have reason to go, like, budget, you know, push the boundaries. Like, let's just add a little. Let's go a little bit beyond safe. A little bit beyond safe. You know, once you go past that red line, there's nothing to pull you back.

[Mike Ryan]

We appreciate the expertise, your genuine natural reaction when you heard that the new transportation secretary was a former cast member of the Real World.

[Jeff Wise]

Yeah, it's like. It's insane. I mean, we live in an insane world, and I just. I don't. I don't know. I don't. I don't understand anything anymore.

[Mike Ryan]

Actually, you know what? That's a perfect dismount. Like, I thought you had dismounted perfectly right before that. But your general confusion as a nerd expert on the. These things just stumbling your way to you know what? Yeah, it's crazy talk. It's crazy. Their planes crashing in the sky. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. Everything's gone crazy. Thank you, Jeff. Appreciate the time, sir.

[Jeff Wise]

Guys, it's my pleasure. Thank you.

[Mike Ryan]

That is some expertise at the end. I'm not even kidding you. He speaks for all of us when he's just looking up in the sky and things are falling out of the sky and he's like, yeah, this is crazy. Right? It's what we're doing. It's crazy. Yes. Like, everything that we're participating in is. Is just nuts.

[Greg Cote]

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[Dan LeBatard]

Greg, how's your birthday going so far?

[Chris Cote]

I invented it. It's going fantastic. My wife and I are staying home tonight. We're watching the debate on tv. We're gonna do something special for Deb. It's a. It's a nice day for me so far.

[Dan LeBatard]

Stugats. That sounds like a.

[Amin Elhassan]

Not a super nice night.

[Dan LeBatard]

The debate.

[Stugotz]

Old people love that shit.

[Chris Cote]

Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah, that's exactly right. Old people do love that shit. And I'm old now. I can't deny it anymore.

[Stugotz]

Now the Dan Levatar show with the stugats.

[Mike Ryan]

When I get left behind. One of the places that I get left behind is when Amin and Mike are talking excitedly about an influencer named Speed who has now replaced Mr. Beast as the biggest of all the influencers. I don't know what they're talking about, but their enthusiasm makes me jealous. It makes me want to know what they're talking about.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, I think it's a really interesting day and age. I recently saw the Tom Green documentary, and it's weird when someone does their own documentary because they're usually self involved. Anyways, this one really shapes it. But Tom Green being at the forefront of kind of podcasting and anyone can be a star, it really was eye opening. And I think we're at another cross section here where you're starting to see people of legitimate influence. I don't think There's a new Mr. Beast. Mr. Beast is still chugging along. He's still. He's still Mr. Beast for a reason. But there are legitimate stars. Kaisenet, Drew Ski, Speed. All of which I actually think, for the most part, not. Not maybe every single one that I outlined. But most, for the most part, are supremely talented and would have probably broken through in a day with more traditional methods, which I actually think Drew Ski is probably one of those. Like, I think that guy could have been a star in any era.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah, no, Druski, definitely. He's talented. He's talented. And I think the thing that old people like me, Mike, get to when we see these influencers or these people exist in this space is like, what do you actually do? Because a lot of them. And it's crazy. You said Tom Green. Tom Green is one of those people. I think of it was like the first of, like, all he does is act weird in public. And that's supposed to be. That's the whole bit. There's gotta be something more to it. There's gotta be something more to it. Drewski. There's something more to it. He's absolutely funny, and there's thought behind what he's trying to create around it. Kai Sonata, I think, is the same thing. He is naturally a funny guy.

[Mike Ryan]

He's got writers, right?

[Dan LeBatard]

Drewski, I think, has writers for some of these bits. Like the BB Hell thing, or.

[Mike Ryan]

Is he that funny?

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, he does a lot of great improv stuff, but there seems like he does also produce bits.

[Amin Elhassan]

You know, you see him on Theo Vaughn's podcast. You see him on Tom Segura's podcast. Like, he's a funny guy, right? Kai Sinat, maybe I think more likely to have writers and guys that are fleshing out stuff. But again, there is some sort of infrastructure behind it, as opposed to. I won't name any names, but some other influencers are just like, I'm gonna be weird. And it's like, that's it. That's all the kids want, someone acting weird on camera.

[Dan LeBatard]

What do you think about spe? Because, like, when he goes to places, like, he's essentially been doing a world tour and he's been going to South America and he gets, like, welcomings like he's the Beatles, like, he's Michael Jackson at parts. Like, he has 36 viewers at a given moment on his live streams. There's video here of him showing up. I think this was in Peru. Yeah, it looks over here. Yeah, he is. And also, this is a dude that a lot of people have doubted.

[Amin Elhassan]

Let me just stop you right here. That is not neither Beatles nor Michael Jackson level. Ladies, for the younger viewers, if you want to know what Beatles Michael Jackson level was, imagine the entirety of the screen. You couldn't see trees, you couldn't see buildings.

[Jeremy]

There are hundreds of people, though, out here.

[Amin Elhassan]

There are a lot of people.

[Dan LeBatard]

That's very impressive.

[Amin Elhassan]

It's very impressive. Very impressive turnout. Also not Michael Jackson.

[Dan LeBatard]

Understood. That's Peru. And this guy is still very early in his career. I was like anyone. I was hating on this guy initially. Not getting it. And then I saw his stuff. Wildly entertaining, and he's like, legit. He barely lost to Noah Lyles in a race.

[Amin Elhassan]

That's the part.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's crazy. You're not buying that? No, I didn't want a rematch.

[Amin Elhassan]

I'm not. Because it's again, it's like. It's whatever these things are playing.

[Dan LeBatard]

That was like two days after doing all those consecutive backflips. This dude's like an athletic. He's athletic specimen.

[Amin Elhassan]

He is definitely athletic. The part where it's like, this guy might be one of the fastest human beings in the world. No, I don't. Cuz again, I understand what I'm watching. I'm watching something that is curated, that's created. Right. And it's like, hey, Noah, it'd be fun. If this is. Don't worry, you'll still win. But we'll make it seem like I almost like that is 100% within the realm of the content that they create, I think.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm not saying Dan feels this way. I know that certain people in our audience feel this way. That just don't mess at all with streamers. And some people may feel like from afar they just see isolated eclipse that that world isn't a true meritocracy. It is. It absolutely is. Like he. Like they're at the top of the chain because they are that much better than everybody else. They don't have. Yeah. Now they have agents. But to get to that level, they were self made and I totally mess with it.

[Amin Elhassan]

The. Yeah. The merit is in content creation. It's not in racing, people. That. That's my point. Right.

[Dan LeBatard]

No, but the fact that he can offshoot and so back himself up. Like he jumped over a car. This was stuff that existed in a fake Kobe commercial. Like his dad was driving a sports car right at him and he jumped over him. Like, he is wildly entertaining. Yeah.

[Mike Ryan]

What are you laughing about, Cody? What are you laughing about?

[Chris Cote]

All of this is going over my head. I've never heard of brewski. I've never heard of speed. I've never heard of bruschki.

[Mike Ryan]

It's not brewski. Okay, thank you. We are trying to stay. We're trying to keep up in a young man's game. We're doing it with my father grazing in the kitchen right now. He is hitting the cashews.

[Amin Elhassan]

He's destroying.

[Mike Ryan]

Yes, he's been hitting the cashews here for a while. I will tell you that. While Poppy is here and a source of great radiant entertainment, my mother complains that at home she doesn't get to, you know, have Poppy. She's got Gonzalo. He's not as fun. She went to the Heat game with him last night. Here is my father at the Heat game. She sent a photograph. Please show everybody. Please show everybody first. Not my father. Please show everybody in the photo so you can see how happy the others are. That's my mother saying, look the joy that your father has watching Tyler, hero in the heat lose by 20 to the Cavs. There's my father. He is not exactly radiant. Boppy there.

[Amin Elhassan]

It was a bad game.

[Chris Cote]

Is he awake?

[Amin Elhassan]

To his credit, other than the third quarter, no, he's awake, he's awake, he's upset. That's anger right there.

[Mike Ryan]

Bobby, get in here for the post game. I want to talk to you.

[Dan LeBatard]

Hey, howdy, listener. Why don't you sit down here next to me? Let's have a fireside conversation. In the winter, this is all theater of the mind. Anyways, weather outside is a little chilly. Let's warm up. Let's cozy up. Not just to each other, but also to that beautiful white can of Miller Lite. That's right. Make these moments even better with Miller Lite, the great tasting light beer for people who love beer. A new year is a perfect time for friends, family, and great tasting light beer tastes like Miller Time. You know, as the football games get bigger, everybody's talking about hosting parties. It's always difficult. Everyone's got an opinion. Why don't you just bring out a nice cooler of Miller Lights and make everybody happy? You could be on opposite sides of the big game, but you still know that you are brought together by Miller Time. Miller Lite is a great unifier. Miller Lite is brewed for taste. It hits different than other light beers. The original light beer since 1975 and still the very best one. Miller Lite great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan find delivery options near you or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer tastes like Miller Time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[Stugotz]

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[Chris Cote]

You're nobody.

[Mike Ryan]

You are an infant.

[Chris Cote]

You have nobody skin. I literally put together Mike Ryan stage for your toenail.

[Jeremy]

I am your career right now, pal. Look at me.

[Mike Ryan]

No, I am your career. No STS.

[Amin Elhassan]

You have messed with McDavid and now you're messing with me. And I'm more dangerous, pal.

[Stugotz]

This is the D Levatar show with the stuff.

[Amin Elhassan]

Dan. The other thing I was thinking about the other day was how government is like a restaurant, right? One party or one person owns the restaurant. We serve sushi here. That's what it is, a sushi restaurant. You come here, you have sushi, and then new management comes in and says, you know what? Don't want to serve sushi. We're gonna do Italian. We'll be an Italian restaurant. And I think that is what is typical in this country of how it should be. The new owners should be able to dictate what's on the menu. It's your restaurant now, right? What can't be up for question is, we're not gonna pay the power bill. You can't do that, right? There's certain things, there are certain systems that regardless of what kind of menu we serve at this restaurant, this gotta get taken care of. Whether it's the power bill, whether it's the water bill, whether it's paying your taxes. You can't just say, hey, I'm an Italian restaurant also. I don't do none of that other stuff. You can't do that. And that's the feeling I get when I see a lot of the appointees, when I see a lot of what's happening in the last week or so in government, in federal government, it's a lot of like. And by the way, we're not gonna do this anymore. Hey, cdc, no communication with the outside world, right? These are all kind of things that are like, this has nothing to do with your politics or the menu that you want to serve. This is like bare bones foundational stuff that you're stopping.

[Dan LeBatard]

And this is stuff that Americans totally take for granted. And they don't know what they don't know. These are American instit that you can't exactly hit pause on to kind of figure out where, where are my loyalists? And unfortunately your, your mind travels almost immediately when you hear the news. Like, wait, does this have a top down effect? It did something over the last few days caused this? You can only help when you see all these things that you never really thought twice about in a given week. Kind of be front and center now.

[Chris Cote]

In the headlines and and to continue a means metaphor. The new owner of the restaurant is also firing all of his best chefs. That's what I think of when I read that they're firing 3,000 air traffic controllers coincidental with this kind of a thing happening.

[Mike Ryan]

Well, let me if I can though, because I have railed for a while now, right, Because I can't think of many greater horrors than us being generally okay with somebody walking into a school and then and shooting kids and slaughtering them. And you can't be safe in America that you are putting your kids in the hands of someone else and trusting that the system will return your child alive because you live in America and you're trusting America that way. And I've gotten very frustrated when that happens, when it immediately after that, like the blood has not been mopped up from our schools and it's happening so daily that we're numb to some of this stuff. When the shootings happen, it becomes immediately a political conversation. So I don't actually want to make this horror in the sky and then on the floor about and where is the leadership or you know what, Biden's to blame for the fires, but Trump's to blame here. I don't actually want to do that. I simply want to rest in the horror of we're presently living in a country where you trust things to work less than you did. Whether it's customer service or my house isn't going to catch fire, or I can be driving like I do every morning and not see plane parts on the ground because people, 64 people have died.

[Amin Elhassan]

But then it's all inherent, right? Like none of these things happen in a vacuum. A plane crash doesn't happen in a vacuum. People's homes don't get destroyed and not have the funding to rebuild in a vacuum. They all happen as a result of decisions that precede them. If you fire 3,000 air traffic controllers and 400 senior officials and the head of the whole thing, regardless of who you oh, I got a guy. There's no guy that can come in there and replace that much turnover, right? If we did away with the entire shipping container and brought in new people here, there's no way the show would be smooth running the next day. It's just, it's common sense. And these are the things. And there's a reason why in government there are positions that are political appointees. We know, the Secretary of Defense, guess what? Every time we have a new president, we got a new Secretary of Defense, we got a new Secretary of the treasury, et cetera, those stuff. Yes. But then there's a ton of positions within each one of these departments that are not political points. Cuz we understand the need for continuity, the need for the government, for this whole system. What Jeff Wise was talking about, this thing that we put all this trust in, and of course it's safe. The reason why we've done that is because for however many decades that's how we've done it. And so I don't know how you can separate some of the decision making that's happened in the last 10 days.

[Mike Ryan]

From a tragic accidents happen. And I would say, I understand in helpless times, the thing we do is who's to blame. Like, I don't want my anger.

[Dan LeBatard]

But you do have a disconnect. And I hope you see it like you're speaking about things that are relatively subject when you make the restaurant analogy. More than half of the country thinks that the restaurant sucks. More than half the country thinks that these institutions that we may or may not take for granted are not actually working well and they need sweeping change and they want loyalists to who they voted for.

[Amin Elhassan]

But in that is the ignorance of not understanding. Right. There are things like Jeff Wise said, that you take for granted. You take for granted. Like you said, everyone's like, oh man, I pay all these taxes. Where do my taxes go? It's like, yeah, like you are benefiting from it all the time. Could it be better? Absolutely. But again, the answer, more often than not for a lot of these things cannot be everybody gone and I'll figure it out later. Or the way I figured out is bringing people who aren't qualified in the sense that they don't have any experience to how to handle something this large. This isn't like I fired my head chef and I hired new chef chefs or chefs. This is something much larger than that.

[Dan LeBatard]

It is, but. But again, I could only get so mad because this is a promise made and a promise kept. This is what draining the swamp to a certain base looks like sweeping change.

[Mike Ryan]

I don't want to turn that into the conversation, even though I understand why it is that we're doing it, because sometimes horrific things happen. I'm not Even saying like this, I don't know whether this is an innocent accident or not, that can't be tied to any of this other stuff that we're talking about, where there seems to be some flaming debris that is more than circumstantial evidence that would suggest there's an obvious correlation between these things. But if they're not, I would just ask the audience to notice that there are an assortment of American systems all over the place that are failing, that are making things feel unsafe, and they are a byproduct of whatever an absence of leadership is on both sides.

[Amin Elhassan]

Dan, all I'm saying to you is I appreciate the point you're making. All I'm saying to you is we had, in essence, an air traffic accident last night, right? We fired 3,000 air traffic controllers 10 days earlier, a week earlier. Like, I get the point you're making, and it's a salient point. It's a good conversation to have. I'm saying, in this particular tragedy, I find it very difficult to say. Completely unrelated. Completely unrelated.

[Mike Ryan]

Understood.

[Amin Elhassan]

I think it was an accident. I absolutely think.

[Mike Ryan]

I understand what you're saying. I'm saying this is the first 10 days of this administration, and the fire were just before that. And there are all sorts of apocalypses that lack the proper governance all over the place because things are burning and we are devoid of leadership, all of it. Leadership that protects us before the crisis and after the crisis. Like, I'm not. We can do this today. I just. There's just. There's still chars on the ground. There's still human. Like, there are human bodies on the ground. I understand that's the reason that. That we're doing. Somebody's got to be blamed for that. But to descend into politics at every turn when they're still. When there's still human remains, there's still people learning about this at this moment.

[Jeremy]

That's what we do with gun violence, though, and rightfully so. When there are people who are in charge and can do things to prevent our most horrific moments, no matter what side of the aisle they're on, we should be criticizing them. I mean, yesterday morning there was a political science professor who said that an FAA employee that they knew said that we were severely lacking on air traffic controllers and specifically went out of their way to say, like, remember when there are flight delays or even potentially crashes that. Don't let them blame DEI and Biden in for that. This is what happened over the last 10 days. And then later that day, there's a crash and that's not to say that it is specifically blood on the hands of the administration, but it would be false to look at anything that happens, particularly when we're slashing regulation or slashing rules, and, and say it's not political. It's all. Everything that happens is political.

[Amin Elhassan]

It just, it's. To me, it's simple. It's like, hey, if someone makes a decision to say, you know what, I'm going to turn off a bunch of traffic lights in the city and not put a traffic cop there and then we have some collisions in the intersection, to say, well, it could have been any number of reasons. That's disingenuous. And that's not a political thing. That is. That is. I'm not criticizing politics. I'm criticizing a decision. I know you make a decision, but here is.

[Mike Ryan]

And I'll get off of this in just a second. But if everyone's choosing their own information sources and if I can see every single dumb thing turned into politics and be mesmerized by how quickly the arguments form on the other side for whatever, here's why. Elon Musk was actually doing this with his hand. But we can make it about any single thing that is making anyone feel anything. Why are you putting your head in your hands, Jeremy?

[Jeremy]

Well, there are facts and there are fictions. Right? Elon Musk did do a Nazi solution. We saw it with our own eyes.

[Mike Ryan]

But Jeremy, Jeremy, what is happening is there are another group of people getting another set of information sources that create all the arguments on the other side of that, that doesn't receive that as absolutely as you do. And it seems to be more than half the voting country.

[Amin Elhassan]

Jeremy, this is what I would say in Dan's defense. There is like, there in some way it can be looked at as a matter of opinion. Some people say, oh, no, he was just saying, from my heart to you, that's what he was doing. I'm not saying that I agree with you, but I'm just saying there is a logical or not a logical. There is a logic that can be formed for the opposing viewpoint. My point against you, dan, is firing 3,000 air traffic controllers isn't a matter of opinion. That isn't a source of information. That is something that happened and we had a air traffic accident not long thereafter. That's not up for debate or who did I vote for? Anything that is justified. That's why I say you criticize the actions rather than the politics behind it.

[Chris Cote]

Yeah, for me, it's a nonpartisan issue. And as Jeff Wise intimated there are going to be more air traffic problems related to firing 3,000 air traffic controllers. It's just axiomatic.

[Jeremy]

The only issue that I have with looking at specifically the Elon Musk example or things like it is like. Like, oh, well, half of the population says that's not the case. Okay? They're wrong. And, like, there are facts and there are fictions and there are things that we can look at differently. But when you then have people following you, you have a pastor yesterday doing the same salute when talking about these things. We are going down a very dangerous path and have been for the last decade now of letting people who have skin in the game tell us that what we're seeing is not what we're seeing. And that is literally how democracy dies. And I know I sound now hyperbolic, and I said to Chris five minutes ago, I always sound like an asshole when I talk about this stuff, which is why I'm not talking, but this is such a problem. And we're just going to go, well, let's not make it political. It's all. All of this is happening and we can't run away from it.

[Dan LeBatard]

Former priest, he got fired.

[Amin Elhassan]

I think, Jeremy, one of the things that I've kind of resolved myself to doing is trying to figure out, because it can't just be, well, it's this and then the other side, well, it's that and that's it. You gotta hit it at a point where it is undeniable, right? Where I'm not even saying, hey, you gotta switch whatever team you root for. You just got to say, yeah, that was a bad move by coach, which is. We're at a point now, right, if we're going to use the analogy that one side is team Blue and this team, Team Red, that whatever coach chooses, he said, go for it on 4th and 35. That was a good move. Good move, right? Like, no, no. I just. My dream for this country is not even like, hey, people, wait until election time to pick the best candidate. Stick with your teams. I'm just saying, can we get to a place at least where you're like, yeah, coach kind of dropped the ball?

[Jeremy]

Yeah, I'm constantly criticizing Democrats, dude.

[Amin Elhassan]

I'm just saying, okay, this is where.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm gonna stop everything here. And it's just for this reason. Okay, I understand that you said that that was you not talking. I understand that. But I will just say that you not talking, but however, while I'm talking, putting your head in your hands with such disgust that it distracts what I'm saying. That's like talking. Can we agree that that's like talking?

[Amin Elhassan]

It's communicating. My best effort, it's nonverbal communication.

[Mike Ryan]

But to be producing me, to be helping produce me in this juggernaut of a show, and while I'm talking, for me to palpably feel through a soundproof glass your disgust and be distracted while I'm talking because you're hiding your disgust in your hands. That's like talking.

[Jeremy]

No, maybe don't say things that disgust me, Dan. Nobody's more critical of Democrats than Jeremy.

[Mike Ryan]

Put it on the poll at LeBatard show. Is anyone more critical of Democrats than Jeremy?

[Jeremy]

I want them to destroy the party.

[Mike Ryan]

So, yeah, all right, all right. We'll see. We'll find out. The American public will speak on that clean and unbiased X Billy Corby site.

[Dan LeBatard]

It is plenty unnerving to say the least. And. And what Amin referenced and the moves along the chain of command, these are all data points as we all try to collectively figure out, like, wait, wait a second. This is bad. This didn't happen for a long time. Did it happen at all because of this chain of events that kick started 11 days ago? These are natural questions. I sincerely hope not. Because if so, then the messaging from, from the Democrats around the election is, is. These are things that you take for granted. These are things that are fundamental to your American experience that help you get from point A to point B every day. And it's a failure in communication. Like a lot of things were. People you ask, most people, they think the economy is bad when the economy was good, the stock market is bad when the stock market is good. There was just a failure of communication from one side over the election cycle.

[Amin Elhassan]

And that's all Jeremy was trying to do, Dan. He was trying to communicate.

[Chris Cote]

Everything is partisan now, right? Everything is partisan.

[Jeremy]

You said 10 minutes ago this is a nonpartisan issue for me.

[Mike Ryan]

You did say that.

[Chris Cote]

It should know. What I said was this should be a nonpartisan issue, but it isn't. Okay, why aren't Republicans standing up and going, wait a minute, we fly planes, too.

[Dan LeBatard]

Republicans fly planes. Responsibility.

[Chris Cote]

Smart. Is it smart?

[Mike Ryan]

Accountability. I'm not doing that.

[Chris Cote]

Is it smart that. That we're firing 3,000 air traffic controllers? That should be a bipartisan.

[Mike Ryan]

Look, it is fair to ask all of your questions. In the horror of seeing something like that, if it happened to any of you, there would be no flippant around this and you wouldn't care about anybody's politics. If it cared. If it was somebody you cared about and something this nonsensical, this unsafe just happens, you wake up to and it's just human error. And then you read people who've been investigating this stuff and you're like, yeah, this could have happened 300 other times in the last couple of years.

[Dan LeBatard]

I just never used to ask myself, I wonder if the air traffic controller is a Republican or a Democrat. And if you read things in the news about buying out federal government workers rather than really put them through these loyalty tests as a means to kind of fast track to see where they stand on their loyalty as things that were outlined in Project 25 that seem to be coming to fruition now you're going to start asking yourself that question, is this person politically aligned or they're on merit? It's a different day and age.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah, that's the part where I'm like, look, I don't give a shit what they vote for. I give a shit that there's someone there who knows what they're doing, who. It's not their first week on the job. That's what it comes down to. And that's implying that they replaced 3,000 air traffic controls with 3,000 new ones. They didn't do that. They didn't do that. And to me, that's all this comes down to. This is a failure of infrastructure, regardless of any political reasoning why it happened, it happened. That's the part that cannot be argued or justified or whatever. 3000 people whose job it is to make sure that the planes don't bump into each other in the sky were no longer employed.

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