← The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 2: The George Soros of Journalism (feat. his beneficiary, Pablo Torre)
00:38:21
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- [00:01]
Jeremy
Hey, friends, Jeremy here. The NBA on Prime is back tomorrow with another great Emirates NBA cup doubleheader. The night starts with Pascal Siakam and the Indiana Pacers meeting Donovan Mitchell and the Cleveland Cavaliers, a matchup that, if Tyrese Haliburton was healthy, probably would have been a potential Eastern Conference finals preview. Instead, you got Donovan Mitchell, who's averaging about 30 a game, and the Pacers, who were struggling. But those games on prime are always intense. And then it's down to Texas, as Anika Jokic in the Denver Nuggets as Big Honey plays some of the best basketball of his career, which is certainly saying something. Get their first look at Kevin Durant and the new look Houston Rockets. If you're not a Prime member, that's not a problem. Just sign up for a 30 day free trial to get started today. Pacers, Cavs, Nuggets and Rockets coverage starts tomorrow at 6:30pm Eastern only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com amazonprime for details.
- [01:00]
Dan Le Batard
You're tuned into Auto Intelligence live from AutoTrader, where data, tools and your preferences sync to make your car shopping smooth.
- [01:08]
Jeremy
They're searching inventory.
- [01:10]
Pablo Torre
Oh yeah.
- [01:11]
Stugats
They find what you need, they're gonna find it.
- [01:14]
Miller Time Announcer
You can make a budget for your.
- [01:15]
Jeremy
Wallet to help you succeed. Pricing is precise and true.
- [01:18]
Pablo Torre
So true it's smarter car shopping, oh, just for you.
- [01:23]
Stugats
Oh, it's just for you.
- [01:25]
Dan Le Batard
Find your next ride@autotrader.com powered by Auto Intelligence.
- [01:30]
Pablo Torre
Una silla de masajes puede pares er.
- [01:33]
Jeremy
Extravagante ocho configuraciones differentes intensidada justable. El Volkswagen taeguan confuciones premium como los.
- [01:55]
Pablo Torre
Acientos de lanteros con masaje dispon ibles solo parese extravagante.
- [02:00]
Stugats
This is the Dan Levator show with the Stugats podcast.
- [02:08]
Dan Le Batard
Zaz had to rush out of here. He's got a flight to catch as part of his college football coverage this weekend.
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Amin Elhassan
You gotta watch some movies on that flight.
- [02:17]
Dan Le Batard
And I will tell you as he leaves, he's gonna come back with stories because I don't believe he owns clothing for Madison, Wisconsin this time of year. Oh, no, I don't believe that he knows what he's headed toward. What's the temperature right now in Madison? How terrible have we gotten to the terrible days of it just feels like nothing but icy cold in your bones. Or are we not there yet because he didn't tell us he was going to Madison? I have also in front of me an assortment of gifts that we are not using to celebrate what is supposed to be today before Thanksgiving. During the holidays, a time of giving.
- [02:56]
Miller Time Announcer
Illinois, Wisconsin, really something. They're sending them to 44 degrees out there. Okay, that's actually pleasant.
- [03:01]
Dan Le Batard
That's not so bad. Okay. Here, Wisconsin. The bad years yet or the bad months yet or the bad weeks. Give Miami Day.org is where you go. You've got till midnight tonight if you're listening to this. Later in the day if you're running. We know we're in gyms with you. We know we're in night jobs with you. You're. You've got till midnight the end of the day today. In partnership with the Perez family foundation, on behalf of my late brother, they are giving $10,000 to give MiamiDay.org an assortment of charities that you can get involved with. They've done the vetting for you. So it's not like you have to question where it is that your money is going. This is going to be spent in good places that have been meticulously vetted. Tony is out at Lone Depot park. They're going to kick him out of there in a second. They don't want him there anymore, no matter how charitable he is. So let's get to Tony's top five from Lone Depot. Put the information please on the screen. Rolling around and near Tony so people continue to give during what is a one day telethon on behalf of giving to Miami.
- [04:04]
Pablo Torre
And let me remind people, Tony's Top 5 is presented by Smirnoff, the official vodka sponsor of the national football league. Smirnoff, please drink responsibly. The Smirnoff Company, New York, New York. Vodka, 40% alcohol by volume.
- [04:19]
Dan Le Batard
Let's get going.
- [04:20]
Tony
Great to be with you from Loan Depot Park.
- [04:22]
Pablo Torre
Yes, sir.
- [04:22]
Tony
We are actually $17 million donated right now. I don't know if it's. Oh, it's over my shoulder right there. $17.2 million donated again, over 1400 organizations, over 70,000 donations and 38,000 different donors. So a very cool situation. We just had entire programs talking about all the beautiful things that people are donating to all the causes that are incredible, from foster care to people with disabilities playing music and stuff. It's a very touching scene and I will be giving you my top five right now. No, olis, because obviously we're late on in the week. We've talked everything there is to talk about regarding the NFL, but a couple of things here. We'll start off with number five, Dano. That Davis Mills throw. I know you Know the throw I'm talking about? That was a special throw, Dan.
- [05:07]
Dan Le Batard
I mean, every once in a while he's going to make a special throw. The Texans shouldn't be saying no way to trading Davis Mills.
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Tony
How many games have they won since he. He's been the starting quarterback?
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Miller Time Announcer
All of them seems to be doing just fine with that pressure up the middle man.
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Pablo Torre
Yep.
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Tony
All right, number four, keep an eye on the 49ers. Brock Purdy looks solid against a good Arizona defense. That NFC west is a, you know what is a mother. And I think that Brock purdy and the 49ers can sneak into a little something something if they start getting healthy on the defensive side.
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Dan Le Batard
Not again. We're not going to do this again with the 49ers, are we? We're going to do this again with the 49ers.
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Miller Time Announcer
Fred Warner's too much Mosa and Fred Warner, if he does that. Kyle Shanahan put that on the poll.
- [05:56]
Dan Le Batard
Put it on the poll at LeBatard show juju. Kyle Shanahan if he does that.
- [06:05]
Tony
Number three, Jags versus Chargers. We don't know if either team is good. We don't know if either team is bad on a literally week to week basis. The Chargers, some days are good. The Chargers some days may be good, some days maybe. And also the Jags, you beat the Chiefs, you beat the. The Chargers, and then you lose to like whoever they've lost to the Texans or whoever. Just whatever, whatever abysmal loss they've had. Like, they're so weird. They're either good, they're bad, they're not good, they're not.
- [06:33]
Pablo Torre
Like you were just talking up Davis Mills. And now the Texans is a bad loss.
- [06:38]
Tony
Well, but they lost them with the, with the, with C.J.
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Pablo Torre
Stroud at quarterback.
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Dan Le Batard
Oh, we're not doing that well.
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Amin Elhassan
Really?
- [06:44]
Dan Le Batard
We're gonna do that now. Wait, you know, wait a minute. They're starter, so. Yeah, this is what we're gonna do to CJ Stroud.
- [06:51]
Tony
17 million. Dano. 17.284 million. What an incredible donation here at Give Miami Day. Incredible. Please donate if you're listening.
- [07:03]
Dan Le Batard
Number two.
- [07:04]
Tony
All right, Number two. Kneeling with almost three minutes left in the Cowboys Raiders was sickening. There's no room for that in our sport. Zazzle likes to talk about no punching in our sport. How about no kneeling with two and a half minutes left in the game? How about that? How about you go punch it in and score a touchdown? Who cares what the score is?
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Pablo Torre
How about that?
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Miller Time Announcer
Sickening.
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Tony
Nope. And Number one, probably the biggest news of the entire weekend, the Chiefs and more. So the shipping container got debacled.
- [07:35]
Dan Le Batard
Debacled.
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Tony
A debacling happened, Daniel. Debacled. Okay, we got debacled. Yeah.
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Pablo Torre
Thank you.
- [07:42]
Tony
That's number one. The Chiefs in the shipping container got absolutely debacled.
- [07:46]
Dan Le Batard
I'm sorry. You guys lost more than $5,000 on a nick Wright bet. Tony, thank you for the work that you did out there. Get out of there. It is loud. It is loud. I don't believe that we celebrated with enough of the goodies that they sent us. But please continue to give throughout the entirety of the day until midnight tonight. I have a couple of things Eagles and Chiefs related because I've seen the stat floating around. The Chiefs offense this year scores more per drive than any of the offenses before it. They're 05 in close games. All of a sudden they go from how we talked about them last year when they were 11 and oh in one score games to they know how to win. Their clutch mahomes is the best this year. They're better offensively per drive scoring. But they lose the one score games and now they play at home against the Colts and now they're in danger of being 5 and 6 and having the same record, same number of wins. The Dolphins a worse record than the Carolina Panthers. Meanwhile, the Eagles have this funny problem when we talk a mean about how much basketball has changed. Football changing in this regard is funny. It's a funny thing to watch. Jalen Hurts is said to be unpopular with his teammates, primarily his offensive teammates because they play a conservative constipated style of football that wins obviously in a way that is more than any other team in the sport. But the emphasis is Jalen. We always win when we win the turnover battle. So all that matters from the new age quarterback on a champion is don't turn the ball over, don't throw into tight windows and zone, don't do all the things that people are doing in football all over the sport. And now what happens? His wide receivers hate him because they'd like to make some money and be good at offense because they can be, because they're great. What a funny thing to have happen in that risk averse sport where the greatest champion that wins all the time, the receivers are really getting mad at their quarterback. Throw into a tight window. No, no, I'm going to tuck the ball because we win every time I don't turn the ball over. Yes, it's a funny controversy to have in the middle of a team that's won 24 of 27 games.
- [10:05]
Amin Elhassan
But then that's, that's the beauty of professional sports, right? Professional team sports is it's the balance of your individual goals within the greater agenda of winning. That's what Draymond Green was talking about two weeks ago, or whatever. It was like, how do you, how do I make myself look good enough to get paid, but also do what the team needs to get wins?
- [10:24]
Dan Le Batard
I'd like to bring in Pablo Torre here because the work, the work that he's doing with a team of journalists requires, it's just not a lot of work effort and caring. He's doing a lot of work that other people are not doing, even on well traversed ground where it's difficult to do new work. So you're attacking something here that is conversationally, it looks, based on your reporting and collaboration you're doing with Mother Jones magazine, that Riley Gaines, with your podcast, it's being shown how it is that she was used and maneuvered, how all of this was maneuvered politically. And so tell us, Pablo, what it is that you're reporting with Mother Jones here so people can get caught up on whatever it is you think you know about this. There's some fact based reporting here that will show you that there's been maneuver, what looks like a great deal of maneuvering and manipulation strictly for a very easy, profitable grift.
- [11:35]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, there's a segue here somewhere between Tony's top five and Riley Gaines, the most famous fifth place finisher, I think college sports history. But I am not here to talk about such jokes. The thing that this story is about, though, is the number one politically impactful sports story in America. And it's Riley Gaines, who is this former University of Kentucky swimmer who has become over time, someone who has become the face of what it means to win elections in America in 2025. Just like hammering this issue, keep predators out of women's sports, predators out of meaning trans people, according to her and the MAGA movement, as well as the face and the voice of people who've been victimized by such athletes. And so what we did with Mother Jones in collaboration with them in the center for Investigative Reporting, was actually profile Riley Gaines, who is this incredibly important person in politics and now in sports, having been a person who tied for fifth with Lia Thomas, the trans swimmer at the NCAA Championships now four years ago. And the thing we were studying was like, when did this all escalate to the point where not only can you make money off of this, Dan. But you're actually somebody who has a leadership center named after her. You're actually somebody who's appearing dozens upon dozens upon dozens upon dozens of times on Fox News, is praised by name, in person by President Trump at the White House as they're banning trans athletes and in the process declaring victory as they are. The people who are arguing this is an 8020 issue. The 20% of you woke libs are getting it wrong. We're winning this 80% of the time. And so when you go through this, you realize that this was a manufactured story, that Riley Gaines did not always believe this, that when you talk to her teammates and we did, they tell you she wasn't anti trans in college. She was not pro Trump in college. She is somebody who over time got paid to develop an opinion into a weapon. And she got paid to develop her experience of tying for fifth place at the NCAA so many championships into a professional victimhood that not only got exaggerated in terms of the rhetoric around it, but truly in terms of the implications for what it is to be a trans person. As in it became, I was. My colleagues, my friends, fellow female athletes were abused, preyed upon, victimized by these quote, unquote, men in sports. And there's a lot in that. But the things that I found all indicate. Oh, wait a minute. There was a story of victimization in college involving Riley Gaines teammates, but it wasn't the one that Lia Thomas had allegedly perpetrated. It was something deeper and darker that Riley Gaines has talked about literally once on Twitter while she makes these dozens of appearances all across the country talking about the real problem is over there. She doesn't want to talk about this specific thing, which is, I think, the big part of the story that we reported.
- [14:48]
Jeremy
Hey, friends, Jeremy here. The NBA on Prime is back tomorrow with another great Emirates NBA cup doubleheader. The night starts with Pascal Siakam and the Indiana Pacers meeting Donovan Mitchell and the Cleveland Cavaliers, a matchup that if Tyrese Halliburton was healthy, probably would have been a potential Eastern Conference finals preview. Instead, you got Donovan Mitchell, who's averaging about 30 a game, and the Pacers, who were struggling. But those games on prime are always intense. And then it's down to Texas, as Nikola Jokic in the Denver Nuggets as Big Honey plays some of the best basketball of his career, which is certainly saying something. Get their first look at Kevin Durant and the new look Houston Rockets. If you're not a Prime member, that's not a problem. Just Sign up for a 30 day free trial to get started today. Pacers, Cavs, Nuggets and Rockets coverage starts tomorrow at 6:30pm Eastern only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com amazonprime for details.
- [15:48]
Miller Time Announcer
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- [16:51]
Jeremy
What does Zyn give you? Not just smoke free nicotine satisfaction, but real freedom. Freedom to do what you love and choose your rewards.
- [17:00]
Dan Le Batard
With Zinn Rewards, you can redeem points.
- [17:03]
Pablo Torre
For premium tech outdoor gear and gift cards to your favorite retailers.
- [17:07]
Jeremy
Find your Zen and keep finding rewards that fit your lifestyle@Zinn.com rewards.
- [17:17]
Amin Elhassan
Warning.
- [17:17]
Jeremy
This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.
- [17:20]
Pablo Torre
Don LeBatard Pablo leads all of podcasting.
- [17:24]
Tony
In Reading while smiling.
- [17:26]
Pablo Torre
If you listen to ESPN Daily, he sounds like he's having the time of his life. Stugats. Coming up next, I'm gonna tell you.
- [17:33]
Dan Le Batard
How the Savannah Bananas are changing.
- [17:36]
Jeremy
How do you know I'm. How do you know I'm smiling?
- [17:40]
Miller Time Announcer
That's how I found my vocal range. Sometimes I just say, savannah Bananas.
- [17:48]
Pablo Torre
This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugach.
- [17:55]
Miller Time Announcer
Pablo, just a person I wanted to speak with. Team A is.
- [17:59]
Dan Le Batard
Oh, come on. You can't keep doing this. You can't do this.
- [18:03]
Miller Time Announcer
Team A and Team B played a football game.
- [18:06]
Dan Le Batard
Can't do this every time. Mike, with this.
- [18:08]
Stugats
All right, all right. So just based on the fact that Donald Trump credited Raleigh Gaines for his reelection, do you believe that if Raleigh Gaines beat L. Thomas by a millisecond that Donald Trump is reelected as President of the United States for a second time.
- [18:26]
Pablo Torre
I had not phrased it in my head until Roy just put it that way. We may be. We may be living in a different America. That is how insanely important this issue and resonant this issue seems to be. And the whole thing, Roy, like, why that's a good exercise here is not just because what crazy sliding doors possibility. It's that there is now this entire population of people who claim to really care about women's sports. And their lens to see women's sports through is through the trans issue, right? These guys who otherwise could not, who actually actively insulted women's basketball over the years, the wnba, women's sports in general, who are all making fun of it, are now rebranded as the foremost protectors of it because it is politically useful and because there is the easiest target in America, which is to say the most downtrodden, like attempting suicide at a rate of 1 in 3 kind of downtrodden population, which is the trans person in America. And so the trans athlete. The reason why there's this other story that I've been trying to tell people is because. And this is sort of spoiling the episode, so please go and listen to it in the way the chef intended. But the real thing you have to understand is that diversity of Kentucky. One of Riley Gaines's best friends, as she calls him in her. In her book, somebody who she's called a really good coach over the years, someone she's been very close to, is the head coach of the UK women's swimming team. The former head coach, now a guy named Lars Jorgensen, and Coach Lars himself was accused of rape by multiple teammates on that same UK swim team that Riley Gaines comes from. And that premise of why do you not know the story of an actual male predator inside of the locker rooms that Riley Gaines and Donald Trump are trying to defend, right? The sanctity of the safety of the protection of these women. Why does no one know about that story? Why does Riley Gaines literally, except for one tweet, never even acknowledged that it happened? It speaks to the entire, not just like, hypocrisy, but the mutant version of how the safety of women is being used against the interests of women. And it's not just like, what about ism? It's literally the question of, we are always trying to figure out who. Who gets to get the protection and the attention of Americans at a time when that is scarce and very competitive. And what Riley Gaines is telling you is look over at the time that I tied for fifth place at the NCAA Swimming Championships, that is like sexual assault. Remember when she went back and forth with Simone Biles? Right. Simone Biles, victim, actual victim of Larry Nassar, basically made those things equivalent. She herself has experienced this thing. And so I'll just quote one of Riley's teammates, and forgive me for going on about this, because I just need to sort of put this in full context, what one of Riley Gaines teammates told us, Trinity Ward, on tape with her own face, which is incredibly brave to do, is all the time she goes out and people ask her, because she tells them, I swam for University of Kentucky. Oh, do you know Riley Gaines? And she asks them in response, do you know about Lars Jorgensen? And what Trinity Ward said to us is it's. And this is me paraphrasing, it's really hard for me to care about Riley Gaines tying for fifth place when our head coach was accused of raping our teammates. And like, that is not abstract. That is the reality of the locker room that has become this social experiment for American politics to fight it out over. And somehow the biggest story about the predation of our actual young women in sports gets entirely ignored until you get a former teammate like this speaking out about it.
- [22:20]
Dan Le Batard
As I have mentioned a number of times now, Pablo Torre finds out, it's very difficult work to do. It's a special collaboration with Mother Jones magazine. It requires a great deal of vetting, a great deal of lawyering. All of this work is mostly work that other people are not willing to do. So I salute you for doing it. But when you think of the most important things that you're trying to do with this particular episode and the storytelling, I'm assuming from what it is that you're saying that the macro here that you're. For all of the revelations, what they are, the disgust that one must have at the idea of politics being used this way. When you have to ask the largest question of who are we protecting here? If you're going to allow a rapist to roam the locker room while allegedly. Allegedly. Right, yes. Thank you for that. When in front of you. The most famous story involving Riley Gaines doesn't have anything to do with protecting women.
- [23:28]
Pablo Torre
It's crazy, man. And there is like a dark comedy in this. Like, the thing you think you should be paying attention to is over here, the actual crisis in women's sports, which any female athlete can tell you, which largely involves, by the way, men in positions of power. Like, the irony, Dan. The sheer irony. Right. And the reason I say alleged is because all of this, of course, is very carefully, legally vetted, and I want to be very careful about all of this. But the question of what about men in female locker rooms in college? It's like they already exist. They're called the coaches, and they are Larry Nassar, they are allegedly Lars Jorgensen. They are the people who have the power, who are actually men. Like, we're not disagreeing that there are men who prey upon women, young women in sports. The question is, which ones allegedly should you care about? And so what's crazy also is that over time, like Riley Gaines has given so many interviews to various podcasts, conservative outlets, TV networks over time that you see the rhetoric, Dan. You see it evolve to be weaponized. It didn't start off as trans inclusion is the same as sexual assault, is the same as welcoming predators into female locker rooms. It didn't start off like that. But you see over time how they work. And we play the clips year to year, month to month, you see the rhetoric change to become more and more criminal and violent in the nature of its allegations. And it becomes something that many people, many parents, again, like, again, as the father of a daughter, right. I hear from people now in my mentions who are like, how dare you betray your blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You're an embarrassed blah, blah, blah, whatever. The point is, if you care about girls and women in sports, there are issues to care about. It's just that we're being manipulated through money. By the way, that originates in a key form here. And you alluded to this before, Dan, and I've only gotten to this now from the owners of the Orlando Magic. The DeVos family has put six figures behind Riley Gaines as this figure. Like they're funding her work, her activism, which gets it all backwards to the profit. Again, I ask everybody to think of who, who profits from this. I would dare say that it's not actually the women and girls that Donald Trump has as these props as he's signing executive orders to ban trans athletes from women's sports.
- [25:52]
Stugats
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- [26:53]
Jeremy
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- [27:48]
Pablo Torre
Spotify Don LeBatard Kermit the Frog here.
- [27:52]
Stugats
Live from Metalog Media studios here in Miami. Stugats the Germans are advancing on France in World War II.
- [27:59]
Pablo Torre
This is the Don Lebatar show with the Stugats.
- [28:14]
Jeremy
Pablo I found it fascinating the way that you guys laid everything out in terms of how this grift began and how Riley seemingly learned at each stop on the radio or podcast, from Clay Travis to then Charlie Kirk and beyond how to phrase all of this and turn it into a bigger boogeyman. But what you really eventually lay out is how this becomes an ability to provide the framework to keep people not just out of sports. What is sort of the most dangerous precedent that's being set here? And where can it continue to sort of exclude trans people not just from sports, but from society?
- [28:59]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, I think it's important to realize that sports is like this gateway drug for lots of cultural issues. It's also the legal Framework v. These Supreme Court cases working their way through the system now to actually strip the rights from trans people to be just included or allowed in these spaces. And I think there is an enormous sort of paradox of, like, how can this problem, which is vanishingly small in real life, right? So again, the numbers, per the president of the NCAA, is that there, at last check, were fewer than 10 varsity D1 level trans athletes, right? So that's less than 0.02%. That's the moral panic that swings elections, that these legislations, these bills, these legislative efforts that are spreading across America in state houses where they can't find the trans athletes to justify the actual legislation, can't find the people, the offenders to, like, parade in front of courthouses. None of that matters because the rhetoric has been so persuasive around how dangerous they are, how predatory they are. And so sports being the place where you can officially ban them from public, or at the very least from sports spaces, leads to. Then what about in the rest of American life? And it's nuts, man. It's. It's all like, I. You can have a debate, a rightful debate about scientific advantage, right? What advantage did Lia Thomas have physiologically, even after testosterone suppression therapy? We've done episodes about that. This is not an episode about whether a. An athlete who went through male puberty is better in the abstract than a female athlete who didn't go through male puberty. That is not the debate. The debate is what are people spending their money on that they don't want you to realize that it will fundamentally strip the rights of the most actually victimized population of people in America to benefit an administration that's using it to just gain more power and enrich themselves. Like, that's the real mind of all of it, is that they are winning. They're actually winning, and they're running the same play over and over and over again. Like an NFL team that's just running the ball or like times in a.
- [31:15]
Miller Time Announcer
Row, or like the SEC when it comes to the College Football Playoff. What has the Utah Utes done to deserve the number 12 ranking?
- [31:23]
Pablo Torre
Just a week.
- [31:24]
Miller Time Announcer
Pablo, look into this a week after.
- [31:27]
Pablo Torre
They named the ad.
- [31:30]
Dan Le Batard
I'm sorry to do this to you, Mike. I just.
- [31:35]
Pablo Torre
Minor penalty.
- [31:36]
Dan Le Batard
Two minutes for verbal diarrhea.
- [31:40]
Miller Time Announcer
Over Jeff Sims.
- [31:41]
Jeremy
Open your eyes.
- [31:43]
Dan Le Batard
The thing that I have failed to get to with Pablo is him and his team getting nominated one of the ten best podcast episodes according to Apple of the year, the only one in the sports category because you can't count Travis and Jason interviewing a relative. You know, a relative about. You can't that. No, we're not doing that we're not doing. Taylor Swift gets to be in the sports category.
- [32:10]
Amin Elhassan
Be respectful.
- [32:11]
Dan Le Batard
What?
- [32:11]
Amin Elhassan
Be respectful. My good friends. The Kelce brothers.
- [32:13]
Dan Le Batard
The Kelce brothers. I mean, but that doesn't put that in the sports category. That was an interview with Taylor Swift. The only thing in sports that was deemed worthy of best episode in podcasting over the last year was Pablo Torre. But before we get to that, can you explain to me the new reporting that you did and Mother Jones did on where the money was coming from on the Orlando Magic and this very rich family that does things like this easily with money that's easy for it to spend?
- [32:43]
Pablo Torre
Yeah. Betsy devos, man. Like, she is the family. The devos family is crazy. Right? There's Erik Prince, the guy behind Blackwater, which is like the paramilitary private defense contractor. He's, like, in the picture. He's in the family tree. But she herself is someone who is not merely, like, very intertwined, I would say, with the Trump administration. She is also. Her family is alongside Rich DeVos. Yeah. They own the Orlando Magic. And I think if people cared more about the Magic, maybe Kevin Clark is, like, the only person I know who even vaguely cares about the Orlando Magic. Maybe that would be a thing people really thought about more. But it's coming from NBA owners. And look, I'm not even asking anybody to pick a side on, like, the whole, like, again, should trans athletes be allowed to play women's sports thing. I just think it's fascinating that there has been in the league, in the NBA this entire time, this multi billionaire family that is actively using its money and laundering its own image using, like. What's the Orlando Magic mascot called? What's his name?
- [33:47]
Jeremy
Stuff.
- [33:48]
Dan Le Batard
Stuff the Stuff the Magic Dragon.
- [33:50]
Jeremy
Stuff the Magic Dragon.
- [33:51]
Pablo Torre
They are using Stuff the Magic Dragon as this political beard behind which they're, like, puppeteering. I think a corruption of certainly women's sports, but also politics itself.
- [34:04]
Jeremy
It's.
- [34:04]
Pablo Torre
It is. It's. It's some pretty bad stuff.
- [34:07]
Dan Le Batard
You did that on purpose.
- [34:09]
Pablo Torre
That's all I had at the end. I'm trying to. I'm trying to just sprinkle in stuff because I know your audience is, like, mad at me for, like, getting the vegetables all up in the stuff.
- [34:17]
Dan Le Batard
He's promoting his episode. He comes on here, and I should have kept it to five minutes, and instead we talked to 20 minutes.
- [34:23]
Pablo Torre
What's the chat like on YouTube right now? Are they happy with me or are they.
- [34:27]
Amin Elhassan
We know better than to put you online.
- [34:28]
Dan Le Batard
Look, you can imagine you. I don't need to explain to you how it is that you are presently being blamed for ruining everything that we do around here with your journalism, with your mother jonesing. But you did. This is how you become a top 10 episode for Apple. And I will tell you, I don't know if you know this or not. Amin has been taking credit for all of the success of that episode, and Amin believes, for all your journalistic team and everything you're doing. It wasn't until you saddled up on Amin and David Sampson that you actually brought home something that's a worthy trophy, because you were. You were nominated for whatever all that shit was you were doing on the west coast, but here, you actually got a trophy.
- [35:11]
Amin Elhassan
To be fair, Dan, to be fair, I'd laid the groundwork for quite a while before I did the haunted house. I did chicken misses From. From.
- [35:20]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, chicken eligible free throws.
- [35:22]
Dan Le Batard
Like all that. He's been working you. Pablo has been working you.
- [35:25]
Amin Elhassan
But this. This. This Kwai Leonard story, this is the. The pinnacle of our journalistic integrity. And I, Apollo, if I may speak for you, we're humbled by this award and by this recognition by not only Apple podcasts.
- [35:40]
Pablo Torre
For me, just for the record, whatever comes out of means mouth next is not something that's approved.
- [35:43]
Amin Elhassan
Are you not humble, Pablo?
- [35:48]
Pablo Torre
I'm very. I would say that it's almost impossible to be humble if you say I'm humble, but.
- [35:54]
Amin Elhassan
Well, I mean, give it a try. I'm humbled. I'm humbled by the recognition. Say it.
- [36:00]
Pablo Torre
I am humbled.
- [36:01]
Amin Elhassan
Don't say it like that.
- [36:02]
Pablo Torre
Why am I listening to you? Why am I listening to a me?
- [36:04]
Amin Elhassan
Why are you saying it like a kid who was told to say, I'm sorry for breaking your stupid voice?
- [36:08]
Dan Le Batard
He doesn't want to say he's been humbled by.
- [36:09]
Jeremy
Because he's not.
- [36:10]
Dan Le Batard
He's not humbled.
- [36:11]
Pablo Torre
I've been.
- [36:11]
Tony
You know.
- [36:11]
Pablo Torre
You know what? I've been. I've been. I've been emboldened. I have been emboldened. I mean, I'm emboldened. And the thing that's happening as we speak right now is that a lot of people are mad at me on the Internet, and I don't think humility is going to get me anywhere. I've been told that in 2026, I need to, like, somehow be even less humble. So I'm going to try and do that.
- [36:34]
Amin Elhassan
Actually, it's funny. I went to a game recently and had a team representative say, pablo, he's good. Arrogant son of a. Though.
- [36:43]
Dan Le Batard
Oh, but You. Can you imagine what.
- [36:44]
Pablo Torre
Who was it? Who said it?
- [36:46]
Dan Le Batard
I mean, look, if you guys want to talk about the process. Pablo Torre's career started with trying to dissect what Daryl More trying to reinvent in Philadelphia.
- [36:56]
Pablo Torre
This is where Sam can keep it all look same.
- [36:58]
Amin Elhassan
That's not where it started. His career started with the money thing. How the guys all blew their money. Right? Wasn't that your big first story?
- [37:04]
Pablo Torre
Some people have alleged that it started there. Billy Corbyn would maybe agree, given that I don't want to get into a beef with Bill. I love Billy. What am I doing?
- [37:12]
Dan Le Batard
Okay, Regardless his career, what's happened over the last year of Pablo, if you believe that some of the things that he has won, that any of the things that he's added to his resume are humble. Are humble. You are not paying attention to what he wants as a destination. He wants to be able to show the entirety of the Internet. My facts are so strong, I'm impenetrable. And he's done so. And now he's come to this story because this one's hard to do. Like this. What happened?
- [37:42]
Pablo Torre
You know what's happening? Amin, actually, is that. And I do wanna credit Amin for being a leg of the tripod. What is happening in my mentions, actually, is that Dan is turning into the George Soros of journalism. People are saying, who is funding Pablo Torre finds out who's the dark money source. And I'm like, you could watch him on YouTube every day he's sitting in that chair over there sweating about how.
- [38:07]
Dan Le Batard
Much money, worried about the billionaires coming after us. When you get one of these facts.
- [38:12]
Amin Elhassan
Wrong, Pablo, how did you feel about Jordan hitting you with a you're welcome?
- [38:17]
Pablo Torre
Yeah, I just want her to come on the show. Can we. Can we get that? Can you. I mean, can you. Can you be my more charming proxy and convince Jordan Hudson to come on the show? That's how you can add value to. To the enterprise here.
- [38:33]
Dan Le Batard
Because that's where this whole thing is already added value. Come on.
- [38:37]
Pablo Torre
I'm saying more value.
- [38:38]
Amin Elhassan
More value.
- [38:38]
Pablo Torre
That's right. That's right. Added value.
- [38:41]
Jeremy
What do I do?
- [38:42]
Amin Elhassan
How do I do this? Do you just DM these people? How do you do it? Well, I know how you do it. I'm saying how does someone who is.
- [38:47]
Pablo Torre
Once, I think we got to assign a meme to like an adult co ed cheerleading contest and you have to cover it and you have to embed. I think Amin needs to actually join an adult co ed cheerleading team and then befriend Jordan Hudson.
- [39:01]
Miller Time Announcer
Ask him about the quality loss.
- [39:02]
Pablo Torre
No.
- [39:03]
Stugats
Stop.
- [39:03]
Dan Le Batard
Get away.
- [39:05]
Pablo Torre
We're not talking about this anymore.
- [39:07]
Amin Elhassan
We had it enough.
- [39:08]
Dan Le Batard
See you later, Pablo. Good seeing you. Good talking to you. And keep up the good work. Pablo Torrey finds out, I will tell you that.
- [39:17]
Pablo Torre
Thank you for the money and for saving journalism. Dan. Couldn't do without you. Not a joke.
- [39:23]
Dan Le Batard
You're welcome. This. I know I keep saying that the work that he's doing is. Is difficult to do, but if anyone has been sort of built for these fights because he's gonna try and win them with facts. He's not getting more humble though. He's out of control. His head. Like you don't understand what getting the universal applause of what used to be the blue check marks for Pablo. Great. You're better at journalism than anybody. Like there's no greater applause you can.
- [39:53]
Amin Elhassan
Give Pablo called him an arrogant son of a bitch.
- [39:57]
Dan Le Batard
But humble isn't going to be one of the things he's winning all the awards like. He's not going to get more humble from here. He would have to be humbled by making a mistake, by tripping and getting something wrong.
- [40:07]
Amin Elhassan
I don't think he really cares about the awards. I think he cares that he's getting stories that nobody else is getting, though, and. And that they're getting traction.
- [40:15]
Dan Le Batard
Well, they get traction because it's hard. Look, he's doing the hardest thing the hardest way. Be at the trough where everyone else is and do the hardest things better than anyone else is doing them. Like, that's not a lane anybody else wanted the challenge of taking. It's a very hard lane to take.
- [40:28]
Jeremy
This story is a perfect example. Like, I've been pretty locked in on this story as it's evolved over the last several years, and there were several things in here that I had never heard and learned because of the work that Pablo does with the this other journalist.
- [40:41]
Dan Le Batard
It's spectacular. He's trying. What he is attempting to do with that podcast is the highest degree of difficulty, which is can I exceed the standard of being at the thing everyone else is talking about and still consistently surprise you with fact based reporting that makes even the people who feel the most informed be like, holy shit, I didn't know it was like that.
- [41:07]
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