Hour 2: We're a Country of Haters

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz Episode: Hour 2: We're a Country of Haters
Release Date: April 28, 2025

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1. NHL Playoffs: Florida Panthers vs. Tampa Bay Lightning

Timestamp: [01:21 - 07:04]

The episode kicks off with an in-depth discussion on the NHL playoff series between the Florida Panthers and the Tampa Bay Lightning. Greg Cody presents his analysis, stating:

"The Florida Panthers lead the series against the Tampa Bay Lightning 2 to 1. The Panthers have a seven-game winning streak at home following a loss. However, between these two teams, Florida and Tampa, the underdogs have covered the puck line in 11 of the last 12 games in Sunrise. And because of that, I think the Panthers are gonna win. But they are going to win by one. So yes, go with the Tampa Bay Lightning at an underdog of a goal and a half against the spread. But the Panthers are gonna win."
— Greg Cody [01:21]

Stugotz aligns with Greg's assessment, expressing strong confidence in the Panthers:

"So far in this series, the road team has won every game. Panthers won two Tampa. Tampa came back, returned the favor... Panthers are gonna come back and they're gonna show everyone why this is in Sunrise, Florida."
— Stugotz [03:37]

The hosts debate the potential outcomes, with Amin Elhassan challenging the notion that the series is the most lopsided ever. This sparks a detailed debate on scoring margins and historical playoff performances.

Billy Corben provides statistical insights:

"Miami's average losing margin is greater than the Grizzlies was. That's quantifiable."
— Billy Corben [06:21]

Despite disagreements, the consensus leans towards supporting the Panthers to overcome the Lightning in the series.

2. Miami Heat's Playoff Performance

Timestamp: [05:00 - 07:39]

Transitioning from hockey, the conversation shifts to the NBA, specifically the Miami Heat's struggles in the playoffs. Amin Elhassan critiques the team's performance:

"The Heat have lost seven straight home playoff games. Tyler Herro didn't touch the ball very much in the last game, and Cleveland did that to him."
— Amin Elhassan [05:19]

Mike Ryan and Billy Corben discuss the impact of key players and defensive strategies, highlighting:

"Sam Merrill plays the 19 minutes, doesn't do anything the entirety of the game."
— Billy Corben [05:53]

The hosts analyze the Heat's defensive weaknesses and the challenges they face in reversing their fortunes during the playoffs.

3. Miami Dolphins' NFL Draft Analysis

Timestamp: [23:28 - 29:43]

The focus shifts to the NFL Draft, with Greg Cody and Billy Corben evaluating the Miami Dolphins' selections. Billy Corben reflects on the Dolphins' first-round pick:

"It was a weird pick, Kenneth Grant in the first round. It was a weird position to pick and it was a reach... I think it's an average draft. Just meh."
— Billy Corben [24:53]

Amin Elhassan probes deeper into the Dolphins' strategic choices:

"So am at 2am Workouts for cornerbacks because they have not yet traded Jalen Ramsey... they do have a defensive back position problem."
— Amin Elhassan [23:28]

The discussion highlights the Dolphins' challenges in balancing their draft picks, particularly addressing their defensive backfield needs and the implications of their choices on the team's future performance.

4. Backup Quarterback Dilemma: Shador Sanders vs. Zach Wilson

Timestamp: [13:00 - 17:45]

A significant portion of the episode delves into the debate over the Miami Dolphins' backup quarterback options. Stugotz advocates for Shador Sanders over Zach Wilson:

"I would rather gamble and have Shador be my backup quarterback than have Zach Wilson, who we kind of know what exactly he's going to be."
— Stugotz [13:33]

Amin Elhassan challenges this viewpoint, emphasizing Zach Wilson's proven track record and draft position:

"Even if he'd been taken highest, even if he'd been taken the highest that anyone had taken him in any of the drafts, ninth from the Saints, he still would have had a skill set less."
— Amin Elhassan [14:38]

The hosts debate the merits of each player, considering factors like draft pedigree, on-field performance, and potential for future development. Billy Corben adds:

"Zach Wilson has a one-year contract. So Ewers is on the practice squad, he's learning, he's marinating for a year, and then he's very likely to be the backup."
— Billy Corben [15:54]

This segment underscores the complexities teams face in selecting reliable backup quarterbacks, weighing potential upside against proven capability.

5. Stardom, Social Media, and NFL Draft Perceptions

Timestamp: [29:03 - 37:43]

The conversation transitions to the influence of stardom and social media on NFL draft perceptions. Amin Elhassan explores how public persona affects player evaluations:

"This player has a lot of notoriety... social media's role in athletes' fame... it's rife for things to happen."
— Amin Elhassan [31:06]

Mike Ryan draws parallels with Lavar Ball, contrasting him with Deion Sanders:

"Lavar Ball was just great at talking clown... whereas Deion was legitimately great as a player."
— Mike Ryan [32:39]

The hosts discuss how media portrayal and personal branding can impact a player's draft stock and public reception, using Shador Sanders as a case study.

Chris Cote adds historical context by referencing Tom Brady's late draft selection:

"When Tom Brady was drafted in the sixth round... he wasn't projected to be a high first-round pick... he systematically went down and down and down."
— Chris Cote [31:18]

This segment highlights the tension between traditional scouting metrics and the modern landscape of athlete branding, questioning whether stardom equates to draft success.

6. The Culture of Haters in Sports Fandom

Timestamp: [37:23 - 31:15]

The episode culminates with a reflection on the culture of negativity within sports fandom. Amin Elhassan posits:

"This is true of at least the American sports fan. The American sports fan prefers humility, even if it's false to arrogance, even if it's the truth."
— Amin Elhassan [38:29]

Chris Cote encapsulates the theme:

"We love seeing people that are great do bad. Like, that's the entire reason we're sponsored by the haters."
— Chris Cote [31:15]

The hosts debate the societal implications of a fanbase that thrives on criticizing even successful athletes, exploring how this mindset shapes player narratives and public discourse around sports.

Notable Quotes

• Greg Cody [01:21]: "The Panthers are gonna win... they are gonna win by one."
• Stugotz [03:37]: "Panthers are gonna come back and they're gonna show everyone why this is in Sunrise, Florida."
• Billy Corben [06:21]: "Miami's average losing margin is greater than the Grizzlies was. That's quantifiable."
• Stugotz [13:33]: "I would rather gamble and have Shador be my backup quarterback than have Zach Wilson."
• Amin Elhassan [31:06]: "This player has a lot of notoriety... social media's role in athletes' fame."
• Chris Cote [31:15]: "We love seeing people that are great do bad."

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Conclusion

In "We're a Country of Haters," Dan Le Batard and Stugotz navigate through a myriad of sports topics, from NHL playoffs and NBA performances to NFL draft strategies and the pervasive culture of criticism in sports fandom. The episode weaves statistical analysis with cultural commentary, offering listeners a comprehensive exploration of contemporary sports dynamics. Notably, the conversation underscores the complexity of athlete evaluation in an era dominated by media influence and societal expectations.

Listeners not tuned into the episode will gain valuable insights into the hosts' perspectives on team performances, player selections, and the broader implications of fan behavior in shaping the sports narrative.

Transcript

[Dan LeBatard]

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[Stugotz]

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[Mike Ryan]

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[Greg Cody]

All right, everybody, it's time for against the Slave and It's presented by DraftKings. DraftKings. The crown is yours. Game 4, Standing Cup Playoffs first round. The Florida Panthers lead the series against the Tampa Bay Lightning 2 to 1. The Panthers have a seven game winning streak at home following a loss. However, between these two teams, Florida and Tampa, the underdogs have covered the puck line in 11 of the last 12 games in Sunrise. And because of that, I think the Panthers are gonna win. But they are going to win by one. So yes, go with the Tampa Bay Lightning at a underdog of a goal and a half against the spread. But the Panthers are gonna win, Billy.

[Stugotz]

Dan, I'm gonna stay on the ice and I'm gonna take The Florida Panthers -1 1/2 against the Tampa Bay Lightning. I don't know what's going around these parts here. What's this I don't know what's going around these parts where everybody all of a sudden is afraid of this lightning team. And I was told, I don't remember because honestly I blacked out because when I see red, I see black also at the same point in time. So last week I was seeing red and I was seeing black and I was told over the weekend that I proclaimed in the Panthers and Lightning series that I wanted to get hit by lightning and that's how unafraid of the lightning that I was. And I don't remember saying that. But I believe that in my heart and soul. This lightning team is so soft that if they struck me, I wouldn't even feel. Feel it. It'd be like a zap. A little zap. So I know what you're saying. So far in this series, the road team has won every game.

[Billy Corben]

Billy.

[Stugotz]

Panthers won to a Tampa. Tampa came back, returned the favor. Seemed like a very lopsided game. 5 1. Don't pay attention to that score. Open netter in there. When there's an open netter, you toss the records out. You know what I mean? That game, a little blip on the radar. Panthers are gonna come back and they're gonna show everyone why this is in Sunrise, Florida. The home ice that everyone is afraid to play on. So hot that the ice can melt because of the energy that all the Panthers fan bring into the arena when they see red. And Dan, you know, because you've hit that drum, you know that when that drum is beat, it is a totally different animal.

[Amin Elhassan]

You just said the road team is winning all the games. That was his information.

[Stugotz]

I said it too. And I'm telling you that ends today. Ride the Panthers and ride them hard. Florida Panthers minus one and a half.

[Amin Elhassan]

Whoo.

[Stugotz]

Against the spring.

[Amin Elhassan]

I'm glad in a contract year you guys are doing such a good job with not doing that in a way that impresses anybody. You both just picked it. You just. All you guys do is make homer picks like that. You guys just pick the home team to always.

[Stugotz]

No, no. I told you guys all year long my NHL picks have been on fire this year. I've been telling you guys, Ducks fly together all year long. Now, unfortunately, the Ducks aren't in the playoffs right now, so I can't take the Ducks. But tonight we're on the pan wagon, baby.

[Amin Elhassan]

Don't try and defend your pick by saying I only have the Panthers winning by a single goal. Like you're. You're trying to prove to me what a homer you're not by always picking the Panthers to win.

[Greg Cody]

Listen, they're not going to cover tonight, Dan. I'm sorry.

[Stugotz]

Hell yeah.

[Amin Elhassan]

All right. But Billy says you've got the. You guys got different picks. Anyone want to pick Tampa? Anyone?

[Greg Cody]

I dare you.

[Amin Elhassan]

No? Okay.

[Stugotz]

Roy picked Tampa. Technically.

[Amin Elhassan]

No, he didn't.

[Stugotz]

I think Tony has a game.

[Amin Elhassan]

He did not pick Tampa, technically. He picked Florida technically to win. He said flatly he thought Florida would.

[Billy Corben]

Win, but not to cover.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, exactly. So he took. Yeah.

[Greg Cody]

The spread the money line. It'll be different.

[Amin Elhassan]

Okay, you have to explain Gambling to you, Dan. Thank you guys for all your help. Yes. I guess you guys are such great gamblers that I want all of your advice because we get it and it's so clearly all important information.

[Stugotz]

I have one over at the association if you want ride the Heat.

[Amin Elhassan]

I don't want. Yeah, okay. So the Heat have lost seven straight home playoff games. Tyler Herro didn't touch the ball very much in the last game, and Cleveland did that to him. And that's what the Heat looked like. When he's your number one option, they're going to be a team that loses more than it wins. Darius Garland did not play for the Cavs after saying that they targeted Tyler Herro. And in his place, Sam Merrill went over no points and it didn't matter. They still handed the Heat their worst playoff loss ever.

[Mike Ryan]

Over three, but still very funny guy.

[Amin Elhassan]

Zero for three, Sam. So. So Garland is out. Sam Merrill plays the 19 minutes, doesn't do anything the entirety of the game. And the Heat lose by more points than they ever have in a playoff game.

[Mike Ryan]

But then he did a full set of the. Ha ha.

[Billy Corben]

They've lost three games by 76 points combined. I don't know whether quantifiably this is the most lopsided playoff series ever, but in my mind, it is not. In my memory, it is.

[Amin Elhassan]

It is not. I think there's the Oklahoma City, Memphis this year.

[Mike Ryan]

Yes.

[Stugotz]

Just other side of the bracket.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yes. The other. The other series. The.

[Billy Corben]

Well, hang on now.

[Mike Ryan]

Well, Greg, they won a game by 53.

[Amin Elhassan]

Greg, first game. Okay, you're gonna. Hang on.

[Stugotz]

Hold on.

[Amin Elhassan]

All right.

[Greg Cody]

Dog with a bone.

[Lucy]

They're up.

[Billy Corben]

Continue your show, and I'm gonna look something up.

[Stugotz]

Could have a big night tonight.

[Amin Elhassan]

Look it up and you will find Oklahoma City has bigger margin. We will. Well, we. You will see, I'm telling you. And the rest of us are telling you that we know it to be so because the first game was decided by 50.

[Stugotz]

But this series isn't over yet. If the heat lose by 100 tonight, then this one obviously more lopsided.

[Billy Corben]

Miami's average losing margin is greater than the Grizzlies was. That's quantifiable. I'm looking up. I'm looking at the numbers right here. Hang on just a second.

[Amin Elhassan]

No, you were telling us to hang on, but you said a total number was 70 something. Look, he's doing the math.

[Billy Corben]

78. I'm right. 4 divided by 78 is less than 3 divided by 76. Quantifiable. Most lopsided Playoff series in Greg Cody's memory.

[Amin Elhassan]

Heat, Heat, not Grizzlies. Okay, thank you. I appreciate you petering out there the way that you did.

[Billy Corben]

I did the math.

[Amin Elhassan]

Okay, you did the math that you did it. You did it by average, and then you did four games instead of three.

[Billy Corben]

That's the way averages work.

[Stugotz]

They've only played three. What are you supposed to do?

[Billy Corben]

Right.

[Stugotz]

And in Greg's defense, he said in his memory he didn't remember the other series.

[Greg Cody]

Yeah, that's true.

[Billy Corben]

Well, I remembered that The Grizzlies lost 4 nil by less than a margin than the Heat is currently losing. That's what I remembered. Was I right? Hell, yes. Yes, I was.

[Mike Ryan]

You are.

[Amin Elhassan]

You are not right that this is the most lopsided series ever played. You are also not. You are also not.

[Billy Corben]

What is.

[Amin Elhassan]

You are. You are also not right on the idea that somebody hasn't been outscored by more than 70. Whatever points. You have said on average through three games, Memphis had been outscored by OKC by more than the Cavs have outscored the Heat.

[Billy Corben]

Yeah, but not in total.

[Mike Ryan]

If I may, if I may, Greg, let me stand up for you here.

[Billy Corben]

Thank you.

[Mike Ryan]

The playoffs are all about adjustments, right? What happened there is Greg said 76 points. That's the biggest, like, margin over, you know, the course of a series in his memory. And then we called him on it, and then he figured out it wasn't, but it was. When you do the average, what Greg just did there, Dan, is a playoff adjustment. He adjusted. It's the chess move. Now it's your turn. What are you going to do?

[Amin Elhassan]

What were your thoughts this weekend when you guys saw the room that Texas quarterback Quinn Ewers was sitting in while he was drafted? I thought that Quinn Ewers would go higher. Did you see the room that we're talking about? Look at the screen right there.

[Billy Corben]

Oh, my God.

[Amin Elhassan]

Avid hunter with a lot of dead animals around him. He'd be much better off if he had gone back to college for another year. Although I guess Arch Manning would. Or Ark, as Ellie says, I assume that Arch Manning will be starting there next year even if Quinn Ewers had returned.

[Stugotz]

Well, he wasn't going to return. He was made offers by a number of schools and there's reports of, like, up to $8 million in nil money to get Quinn Ewers to go be your quarterback for a year. He opted very questionable decision to go to the NFL when everyone kind of knew he wasn't going to be drafted very high. And now I believe he's going to be on the Dolphins and he's going to make like $800,000 a year. So he's getting 10% of what he could have gotten had he stayed in college last year. I guess he's really gambling on himself. The room is wild. And I think. And I could be wrong here. I think had the coaches and the GMs seen that room earlier, he probably would have gotten drafted higher. I think that part of the reason why he didn't get drafted earlier is because they didn't see that room, because that room reads. NFL coaches love this guy.

[Amin Elhassan]

Killer.

[Chris Cote]

Killer instinct.

[Stugotz]

Hunter. Yeah, absolutely.

[Mike Ryan]

Guys, I think I've discovered my new assignment for Pablo Torre. Finds out, because I'm gonna. Yes, I'm gonna. I'm gonna find out. I don't think he killed all those animals. No, that's not. That's. He's right now. That's stolen valor. That's not him.

[Billy Corben]

Wow.

[Mike Ryan]

Somebody else. Somebody else did the hunting and he just sat on the couch.

[Billy Corben]

I need Ron McGill's commentary on that photo, by the way.

[Amin Elhassan]

All right, we will get that tomorrow. He's not here today.

[Billy Corben]

Waste of antlers.

[Amin Elhassan]

So how many animals is that? That is in. In the room. And is that a bear over there on the. On the left? Is that a bison maybe? Tiny bear. Like, what's happening? There seems to be a tiny bear wearing a hat over there on the left. I don't know what the. Thank you. There it is.

[Stugotz]

Pomeranian.

[Amin Elhassan]

Up top.

[Stugotz]

What is that?

[Amin Elhassan]

Small bear.

[Mike Ryan]

That is.

[Amin Elhassan]

That is absolutely not something. What is that? That's a taxidermist got a hold of a baby bear. What? That's just a stuffed animal. That's something that was killed.

[Mike Ryan]

That's what I'm saying. Like, I think if we do a little deep dive into a lot of these animals in the background, we're going to find out a lot of this is just all fictitious fugazi. This guy right here, he's playing the part. You know what? I wouldn't draft him because I don't believe he did all this stuff.

[Stugotz]

What if they're, like, animatronic and it's really like Country Bear Jamboree. When he walks into that room, like, it starts singing.

[Billy Corben]

I like it.

[Amin Elhassan]

Is the Country Bear Jamboree still a thing at Disney?

[Stugotz]

It's been repurposed. Yeah. Country Bear Musical Jamboree. So I went not too long ago. And I'll tell you what, Dan, they closed it about. I want to say A year ago and they refurbished it. You know what? If you like Disney tunes now the Bears, it sounds corny. Now they're singing some of the hits. They're singing Aladdin.

[Amin Elhassan]

Is that a T. Rex? Is that a T. Rex?

[Mike Ryan]

I told you guys. Come on now. Come on, man.

[Stugotz]

Dude, this guy's a time trip.

[Mike Ryan]

This dude's a fraud, man.

[Amin Elhassan]

What do you mean a fraud? That's absolutely some. He would have gotten drafted higher if anyone had seen that. That was a T. Rex in the corner of the room.

[Stugotz]

Can I ask you, since he's a Dolphin, so there's kind of a connection here. When we got to, when we got to day three, were you thinking, Dan, what I was thinking? Shedeur is better than Zach Wilson. Like should do to the Dolphins. Could make a little bit of sense here. Now the problem is circle of trust here. Problem is we know two is probably going to get hurt in one form or fashion again right. At some point in time. And then when Shador comes out, if he lights things up, then you really have a quarterback controversy on your hands. Which I feel like is why you get Quinn Ewers. Because I don't think there's a person on earth that is going to be chanting for Quinn Ewers to come into the game or Zach Wilson. But that's, that's why like you don't get your door right because you don't want the controversy when to when. If Tua gets hurt again. But he's better than Zach Wilson.

[Mike Ryan]

But Billy, wouldn't you want rather have like two good quarterbacks than one?

[Stugotz]

I. Yes, I do. Because I've seen what happens when, when TUA gets hurt every year that they don't have a competent backup plan. And now the backup plan is Zach Wilson who is I guess better than the options that they've had in the past. But we know that he's not going to be.

[Amin Elhassan]

But why would you say that Quinn Ewers is better than him when one of them has a skill set that gets drafted top five in the sport and the other one in a draft that's weak on quarterback goes late in the draf.

[Stugotz]

No, no, no. I'm saying Shador is better than Quinn Ewers and Zach Wilson. That's why I would have taken him.

[Amin Elhassan]

But, but are they better than Zach Wilson given that Zach Wilson's measurables were he's a top five first round pick?

[Stugotz]

Well, I mean we know what Zach Wilson is where I guess in the unknown. We don't know what Shador is In the NFL, right. Like we've seen Zach Wilson so many stops that like, I would rather gamble and have Shador be my backup quarterback than have Zach Wilson, who we kind of know what exactly he's going to be.

[Mike Ryan]

Confession. When Dan said, when one guy has a skill set that we know to be valued at top five in NFL draft, I thought you meant Quinn. Yours. Hunting down the T Rex, I was like, that is a pretty good skill. I mean, if he does have it, a time machine.

[Billy Corben]

By the way, Zach Wilson's top five days seemed like a thousand years ago. He's proved himself for what he is. That's why the Dolphins got him on a one year deal for the NFL equivalent of about $5,000.

[Amin Elhassan]

How old, just for the record, how old is Zach Wilson? Because while I understand that we've seen him in the pros and not play well in the pros, his measurables in a good quarterback draft got him drafted very high. You guys are talking about people who are in a weak quarterback draft who went very low.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, but they went low in Shador. He fell historically like I.

[Amin Elhassan]

But even if he'd been taken highest, even if he'd been taken the highest that anyone had taken him in any of the drafts, ninth from the Saints, he still would have had a skill set less. Less good where the measurables are than Zach Wilson.

[Stugotz]

But the measurables can be deceiving. Right. Like Mel Kuiper famously said that if Jimmy Clausen didn't work out, he would retire. And he didn't retire. He's still doing this. So like you can only really go by the measurables for so long. Zach, we've seen it just hasn't really worked out for him. It didn't work out for him at the jets once, it didn't work out for him at the Jets a second time. Then he goes to Denver. It doesn't work out there. Now he's over here and they're paying him a lot. They're paying him $8 million. When in the past, like the Dolphins haven't spent on a backup quarterback, which is why they've been in the spot that they're in. I'm just saying, had they gone for. I understand why they didn't. Because you don't want to have Shador as your backup. Especially when you have Tua, that is your franchise guy. You paid him all of that money last year. But the fan base honestly is still very split on if Tua is the guy or not. Even though they gave him all the money. So I understand why you wouldn't bring in a guy like Shador just to add, you know, fuel to the fire of, hey, if Tua is struggling a little bit, we have Chedor here who can be better. But on the flip side, Devil's advocate, I would rather take a chance on Shadour Sanders and on Zach Wilson should something happen to Tua.

[Billy Corben]

Well, I love the Ewers pick because it's very late, they spent hardly anything to get him. And Zach Wilson has a one year contract. So Ewers is on the practice squad, he's learning, he's marinating for a year, and then he's very likely to be the backup.

[Greg Cody]

Zach Wilson turns 26 in August, so he's still young.

[Amin Elhassan]

I find funny, always the fact that you've seen someone fail in the pros, you haven't seen the other one fail in the pros. So you believe that the other one you haven't seen is more capable of avoiding failure. Even though the way that we measure these things empirically, the way that we measure these things, Zach Wilson is more valuable not just in the contract he signed, but where he was drafted than the two people you guys are talking.

[Stugotz]

I mean, but yeah, like if I see Ted Bundy and I see Ted Lasso, I'm going to go with Ted Lasso because I know Ted Bundy's a serial killer. Maybe Ted Lasso is capable of killing, but I haven't seen him do it yet. So I know for sure one of them is a serial killer. Like I know one of them isn't very good in the NFL.

[Amin Elhassan]

You know, one of them played for the jets and no one is good there.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, but he also played for the Broncos.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah, and the Broncos weren't very good before he was there. And they weren't very good immediately after.

[Stugotz]

Playoff team last week.

[Amin Elhassan]

No, with the team when they got Bonix and a different team the following year. Yes, they were better. But no one played quarterback well for the Broncos the year that Zach Wilson tried to play quarterback for them.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, but Zach Wilson also went to Sean Payton, quarterback guru and fixer, and he's gone after a year.

[Billy Corben]

And they got Zach Wilson out of the bargain bin for a one year deal. Which tells you nobody else wanted him. There was nobody competing to sign Zach Wilson who wouldn't have taken a one year deal for peanuts.

[Amin Elhassan]

I'm not going to sit here and argument argue that Zach Wilson is good. That's not the argument that I'm making.

[Billy Corben]

Seems like it.

[Stugotz]

Quarterbacks in the NFL next year are going to be wild, right? Like you have. Justin Fields is probably going to be starting for a team. He's starting for the jets right now if there isn't, which there very much appears to be some sort of secret deal between the Steelers and Aaron Rodgers because nothing makes sense as to why they didn't really take an actual quarterback. Mason Rudolph is not going to be starting for the Steelers, so it seems as though like there's a like handshake, wink, wink agreement that Aaron Rodgers is going to end up there because he's been secretly talking to Tomlin because why else would you be rolling Mason Rudolph as your starter?

[Amin Elhassan]

I'm guessing that Aaron Rodgers is hurting today. Watching the packers in the first three rounds take two wide receivers and a tackle.

[Stugotz]

Like it's not great.

[Chris Cote]

Oh, now you do it.

[Stugotz]

Do you think there's anything that will ever happen where Aaron's like, maybe it was me.

[Amin Elhassan]

Put it on the poll at LeBatard show. Do you think there's anything that will ever happen that Aaron Rodgers will say, maybe it was me?

[Porcello]

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[Lucy]

Howdy folks, it's Mike Ryan here to remind you that Gametime is the official ticketing partner of the Dan LeBatard show with Stu Gotz. As you know, I talk about gametime plenty on this show because I use it plenty. And the weather is warming up. It is a perfect time to take family or friends, a whole lot of folks take them to a ball game. But before you do, why don't you check out the GameTime app?

[Amin Elhassan]

Why?

[Lucy]

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[Billy Corben]

Hey.

[Lucy]

You in the audience, it's Mike. You've been a fan of this show, hopefully for a long time, and you know how much Miller Lite means to me. This partnership. It's real. It's documented. For almost 20 years, Miller Lite has been a partner of the Dan LeBatard show with Stu Gotz, and now Miller Lite is celebrating its 50th anniversary. I've had so many great moments with Miller Lite, so many great activations, so many great events presented by Miller Lite. A great partner. Cheers to them. Cheers to 50 incredible years. And for you at home, you know that Miller Time always means a good time. From game night to parties with friends or a special anniversary, celebrating important occasions means more moments with the coolest people in your life. Cheers to 50 years of Miller Light, the great tasting light beer for people who Love beer since 1975, now's a perfect time to celebrate legendary stories with friends, family and a great tasting light beer. It's Miller Time. Miller Lite Great Taste 96 calories Go to millerlight.com dan and find delivery options near you or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller Time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[Billy Corben]

Don LeBatard this guy comes in as the next Wayne Gretzky his nicknames include the chosen1 and McJesus. Okay, he's a great player. He scores a lot of goals. He scores a ton of assists. But it hasn't translated to making Edmonton a powerhouse in the league.

[Dan LeBatard]

They're in the final stugats. What's your nickname for him?

[Billy Corben]

Them look overrated.

[Stugotz]

This is the D Levatar show with the st.

[Amin Elhassan]

I made the mistake of getting wrapped up in the local hour, in the first hour on all Shador Sanders stuff. So I haven't actually gotten to Greg Cody's very valuable Miami Dolphin Draft Thoughts The Miami Dolphins do not do sexy things with the draft. So it's fullbacks and defensive linemen. Fat guys taken too early, with the added bonus of a snarky Barry Jackson of the Miami Herald, who is now officially fed up saying the Dolphins will hold tryouts for cornerbacks at 2am outside of a Sonic. Sonics one in Homestead. I don't know which one.

[Stugotz]

I mean the Sonics is right across from their facility. It's in front of the Walmart.

[Amin Elhassan]

So am at 2am Workouts for cornerbacks because they, they have not yet traded Jalen Ramsey, right? They are. They are in talks to trade Jalen Ramsey. They do have a defensive back position problem. But what are your thoughts on the Dolphins draft? Anything here interesting to say as the longtime Miami Herald columnist, a person who's been covering these drafts for about 40.

[Billy Corben]

Years, it was a weird pick, Kenneth Grant in the first round. It was a weird position to pick and it was a reach. It was a player who wasn't in many first round mock drafts that I saw. He certainly wasn't in Kuipers and it's just he's a nice player. But at that position, that was their third need after cornerback and offensive guard and they could have hit it harder. There were available players there, particularly at cornerback at 13, and they bypass him. So I think it's an average draft. Just meh. Because after that I like the Quinn Ewers pick. After that, they did target their positions. They did pick a cornerback late, a guard. They ended up picking three defensive tackles, which is probably too many. But yeah, the problem with the Dolphins right now, they're stuck in no man's land in the middle of the draft. You know, it's the classic not good enough to have a meaningful, a low pick and not bad enough to have a meaningful high pick. So they're stuck.

[Amin Elhassan]

Billy, would you do me the favor of telling me the origins of no Man's Land? Why is it a land with no man, because I don't know where it is that started. I do want to re. Ask a couple of questions from earlier in the show as a prank. It's a good prank. I will say again, cruel, wrong, immoral. But pranks kind of are that.

[Mike Ryan]

Dan.

[Amin Elhassan]

I don't know where you guys put the line on pranks, but sort of that's the point of pranks. To embarrass you and be kind of cruel.

[Billy Corben]

He didn't invent that prank, though. I mean, that's a cliche prank.

[Stugotz]

No man's Land. Originally the name of the plot of ground lying outside the north wall of the city of London. The site of a place of execution.

[Amin Elhassan]

Oh, wow. So when you're sent to no man's land, there are no men living at the end of you visiting.

[Mike Ryan]

Dan, I got another Mickey Loomis impression for you. I'm gonna try again.

[Amin Elhassan]

It went so well the first time.

[Mike Ryan]

Let me try this again. We're gonna take you with our next pick right here, man. And you know it.

[Billy Corben]

Beautiful. That did sound like a general manager. That's great. That's a good imitation.

[Stugotz]

Yeah.

[Billy Corben]

Spot on. Great mimicry. Mickey Loomis. That's exactly what he sounds like. I've been in his company. I've talked to Mickey.

[Stugotz]

Have you?

[Billy Corben]

Yeah. Sounds just like a mean. It was great imitation.

[Amin Elhassan]

I'm so glad we went back to that. Just. It was so successful the first time. It's good that we take those things and let them soar into the sky where they can live freely and just create unity and laughter.

[Stugotz]

Greg, if you were Shador and you're getting sandwiched, you'd rather get a call from Mickey Loomis or Mickey Mouse Eisner.

[Billy Corben]

Well, you know what? If he got a call from Mickey Loomis in the first round, that would have made sense because Greg Cody and Mel Kuiper Jr. Both had him going number nine to the Saints.

[Amin Elhassan]

The other question I wanted to ask you guys because this is something that I felt like happened with Chador Sanders. Go ahead and come up for me. This is America's second most popular sport, college football. Let's name all the people we thought were stars last year, just star names. I'm not talking about regional stars. I'm talking about national stars because maybe Quinn ewers qualifies because he's the quarterback at Texas. But you do understand, if you can give me 10 names, Chador is one of them. If you can Indeed give me 10 names, and I don't know that you can give me 10 national stars in college football.

[Mike Ryan]

The problem with that, Dan, as a metric is because it also factors in heavily how much we talk about people regardless of. Of whether they were actually good or not. I could throw out Arch Manning as one of those names. Yes, you could, because I know that name. Did he play great and does he deserving?

[Amin Elhassan]

But I would take him though, I would say he could be one of the 10. That name would be one of the 10. When this, this sport is. The fame in this sport is hard to come by if you are not a skill position player because you're wearing a face mask and it takes work to get your name out there because a lot of people are just rooting for laundry or betting on games and the parts are mostly interchangeable. And I know that people listening to this, if you know college football, you might make an argument on behalf of 20 people you think are stars. I'm asking you, give me all the names that you'd put in the class of Shador Sanders as a star because the prank hurts more because it happened to a star. The fall hurts more because it happened to a star. The fact that most of these guys don't have a certain humanity to you where you can't even see their faces, but this person, you know his story and you know his dad's story, and it creates a name and a stardom that all of a sudden people are attached the same way they are to the quote unquote polarizing tuatangovailoa who they know as a name because they saw him in college and now they've got a rooting interest in who that person is because there's a human underneath the uniform. But can you guys give me a number on what it is that you think you'd put the over under on college football stars last year? Names that have national stardust them.

[Mike Ryan]

Let's name him Travis Hunter. Right.

[Chris Cote]

He's far and away number one.

[Stugotz]

Right.

[Mike Ryan]

Cam Ward. Right.

[Chris Cote]

Shador Sanders, Jeremiah Smith from Ohio State.

[Stugotz]

Kavashtan Genty that everyone was talking about, but isn't necessarily.

[Amin Elhassan]

It's basically the guys at the Heisman ceremony.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, but what does star power really have to do with the draft?

[Amin Elhassan]

Oh, I'm just saying the reaction to everything that happened, you're seeing something unprecedented happen because it's a player that's falling, but it's not a random player. It's a player from your second most popular sport, one of the 10 guys that you think of as having a fame. And really there are only two or Three guys that is there. His teammate is the only guy that I put in the same level of stardom. Just given who his father is.

[Mike Ryan]

Dan. I don't think that's stardom. I think that's infamy. Right. Because it's not that Shadow Sanders was popular. It's popular with the brand packaging of super braggadocious. Super. Hey, man, I do this my own way and I'm not making a value judgment on it. I'm just saying infamy is part of stardom. Not always, no.

[Amin Elhassan]

But Jake Paul or whomever. Not always.

[Mike Ryan]

Not always. But for some people, yes. For some people, yes. When it is the root of your stardom. Right. The root of Jake Paul's stardom is I'm an obnoxious asshole. Right. I think what happened to Shador Sanders has that. Because his stardom is rooted not only in his ability, but also in his ability to be polarizing. Polarizing on purpose. Not, hey, I'll just live in my life. And all of a sudden all these people are upset. But no, like, oh, let me rub it in their faces. Like when you do that, it attracts a certain kind of attention that when this fall happens on draft day. Yeah. Because it's not just, oh, wow, poor starters, how could this happen? It's like, yes, finally, comeuppance to this guy in a way that. For instance, let's just assume Arch Manning had played last year and had played well enough and had a fall on draft day. I think there'd be a lot of questions like, oh, what happened to Arch Manning? But it wouldn't be this celebration of, yes, in your face, dude.

[Chris Cote]

I think the point that Amin's making is we're a country of haters. We love seeing people that are great do bad. Like, that's the entire reason why we're sponsored by the haters.

[Stugotz]

Why?

[Chris Cote]

Because when we do well, the haters hate it.

[Billy Corben]

And. And when Tom Brady was drafted in the sixth round, it wasn't particularly controversial at the time because he wasn't projected to be a high first round pick. We didn't know how good he would be in the NFL with Sanders, he was projected to be a top 10 pick for most of the draft buildup. And then he just systematically went down and down and down. And because of who his father is, he's a bigger name than he otherwise would be because he's on the team with the two way Heisman Trophy star. There's more spotlight around Chador than there otherwise would have been. So that's why he's a big star.

[Chris Cote]

Greg, you can almost say, like, people didn't really know who Tom Brady was, right? Like he was playing two quarterbacks in Michigan. Like he was there half the time for sure. And social media was basically zero. There was nothing. So with Shadour Sanders, with the 24 hour media cycle, with social media, with him making rap songs with his dad being Deion Sanders, with him flashing a $70,000 watch on the sidelines in full uniform to Colorado states or Colorado State's crowd or Arizona State's crowd or whoever it was, it's like you, you, the level of notoriety is just so much higher now that this is rife for things to happen.

[Billy Corben]

And he's also in the Nil era. He's one of the first big national stars in the Nil era, where all of a sudden it's not a scandal if a guy has a Mercedes Benz or a Bentley because they're entitled to.

[Mike Ryan]

Now, really, like Lavar Ball prepared us for all of this. Like, this is the only difference, the only difference between the Ball family and the Sanders family is that Deion Sanders is legitimately was great as a player and is great at his job right now, whereas Lavar Ball was just great at talking clown. Oh, well, let's not use derogatory language like that.

[Chris Cote]

He was, he was professional talk.

[Mike Ryan]

He's a professional talker, professional clown, entrepreneur, promoter. But also part of that, that promoter part is that I am going to oversell my kids. I'm going to. I'm not just gonna sell them, I'm gonna oversell them. And when you oversell a product, then you get to a place where there are going to be people who are loyal to the product and they're going to be people who can't stand the product. And I think that's the difference between the regular infamy of stardom that you're talking about versus when it is engineered.

[Stugotz]

I think one of the differences also with like the balls and the Sanders is because Deion was Deion, there was a lot more credibility behind it. Right, because you just assumed. And he was a coach, he was his son's coach, but he was his coach. He was a coach. You know, he was a star, obviously knows Italian, but Lonzo also, and I could be misremembering this, Lonzo also played it very differently than Shador did. Right. Like Lonzo, to my recollection, wasn't going in and kind of acting the way that lavar was. He wasn't going in meetings, he wasn't kind of Blowing things up. He was just. They were trying to get him to the Lakers, and they got him to the Lakers, and he was more quiet on the two. And he was always kind of like an accessory to Lavar when Lavar was going out, doing Lavar things. Here you had Deion and you had Shadour, kind of. Shadour was acting as though he had the talent and the fame of Deion when Deion was in college and he. He wasn't at that level.

[Mike Ryan]

So Lonzo, No, Lamelo, though, like, he's got all the same vibes as Lamelo Ball.

[Stugotz]

And again, Lavar disappeared by the time Lamelo came around. Like Lamelo. Lamelo is better than Lonzo, and Lamelo is more talented. So he was able to make it without lavar going and having to hype him up.

[Amin Elhassan]

Porcello, put it on the poll, please. Are we a country of haters? And the other thing that I wanted to address with you guys as it relates to just this, I don't know if there's a greater crime that an athlete can commit with fans than arrogance that fans feel is unearned, because we're kind of okay with arrogance if you've earned it, if you know you're great. We kind of like that if you know you're great. There are exceptions, right? Barry Bonds was somebody that could be viewed. Actually, it tends to be the arrogant black guy most often that has trouble overcoming his excellence because of the jerkiness. But we tend to like someone who knows he or she is great and carries him or herself with that greatness. But the unearned arrogance is the part that bothers a lot of people, even though in the case of Chadur, I think it's earned. Like the quarterback who helped turn the worst program in the country into a program everybody was talking about. I believe that he earned whatever it is that he walked into those rooms with. But you've heard me say before that this is true of at least the American sports fan. The American sports fan prefers humility, even if it's false to arrogance, even if it's the truth. But we'll allow it if it's the truth and we know you're excellent. Like, we'll be like, man, I wish I was that cool. Or, I wish Joe Burrow. Joe Burrow. We're all like, mmm, I really like the way that he carries himself. But also the stat sheet supports it. The idea that everyone wants to knock Shador down before he even gets into the league, when his arrogance is not unearned. No in fact, the draft just told you he was more successful than he had any right to be at Colorado because the draft just told you he's not that physically talented. And more sacks than anyone in the sport tells you that offensive line wasn't any good either.

[Stugotz]

But, I mean, the draft doesn't actually tell you that because he didn't actually fall to where he was going to be drafted. He took a historic fall. And it's not just like sports fans that don't like it. Obviously, it's the front office, it's the GMs, it's the coaches, because, like, they have a lot of insecurities, too, where they're not going to want to have someone come in who hasn't played a down in the league when their jobs are on the line coming and dictating the terms, which is part of why he didn't end up getting drafted.

[Chris Cote]

If we take the name out of the situation and see a kid who went from an HBCU to another school that was terrible and made them relevant and then kind of fell in the draft, you'd be like, nice story. Like, that's a kid that has worked his way up and has earned a spot in the NFL. Now we put in Shador Sanders and all the things that come with it, and now it's a terrible story.

[Mike Ryan]

But Tony Ellis, it was the same story, but a different name. But keep the part where he allegedly has his headphones on or anything. Keep the part where allegedly has his entourage there and they're like, ah, you know, it changes things. Yes, that's what's. It's not his name. It's what Dan said earlier. We thought Deion Sanders name was gonna help him, and it didn't. It didn't save him out of this.

[Amin Elhassan]

But this is something, though, that. God Almighty. The baggage that we consumers bring to all of this. One of the great compliments that I've gotten in my career for something I've written came from Steve Kerr, because I was writing about the 2010, 2014 heat, and I was saying if we took this story, pay cuts, sacrifices, everything, wrapped it in the American flag and made it the Olympic team, America would absolutely root for those guys as a symbol for our American arrogance and greatness. But because of all of the baggage that we brought to that discussion and this one, what ends up happening is Shador Sanders gets prank called. And some people enjoy that. He got his comeuppance, as Amin tried to say.

[Mike Ryan]

And you know it.

[Dan LeBatard]

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