Hour 2: Zaslow's Football Fetish (feat. Rachel Nichols)

Summary

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Episode Overview

Title: Hour 2: Zaslow's Football Fetish (feat. Rachel Nichols)
Podcast: The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Air Date: December 18, 2025
Main Theme:
The second hour centers on end-of-career challenges for NBA superstars, especially Chris Paul's complicated late-career narrative with the Clippers. The crew (Dan, Stugotz, Amin Elhassan, Rachel Nichols, Mike Ryan, Zaslow, Juju, Jeremy) blend NBA talk with trademark irreverence, debating self-awareness, leadership, and how organizational dysfunction collides with difficult personalities. Rachel Nichols joins for insights and lighthearted anecdotes from the NBA beat—including some sideline logistics and a recent online controversy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Thursday Thunder: Juju's NFL Props (01:44–03:14)

• Parlay Picks: Juju gives his Thursday Thunder picks for the night’s NFL action—Kobe Parkinson (over 25 yards), Puka Nacua (7+ receptions), Rasheed Shaheed (3+ catches), Davis Allen (2+ catches).
• Celebrating Wins: Dan and Juice joke about Juju’s recent luck and close heartbreakers, like missing parlays by half a yard.

"25 yards should be Scooby Snacks." — Juju (02:22)

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Chris Paul: Legacy, Leadership, and Lonely Endings (03:14–21:12)

The Framing: A Lonely Exit for a Great Player

• Dan notes how media portrayals make Chris Paul’s Clippers farewell feel melancholy—a career of greatness overshadowed by awkward endings and unacknowledged leadership.
• Amin: Cites Ramona Shelburne’s reporting to show that even when CP3’s camp gives the story, he’s painted as overbearing—obsessing over semantics, needing “character witnesses” in disputes (04:18–06:15).

"Chris Paul really doesn't take a hint... We don't need you to be a lawyer here with the legal terms in the gray area." — Amin Elhassan (05:10)

The Core Debate: Can Aging Superstars Change?

• Dan: Can Chris Paul ever not be ‘leader guy’ after 20 years of proving doubters wrong? (10:34)
• Amin & Rachel Nichols: Relate the struggle to other stars—some, like Udonis Haslem, adapt with humility; others, like Carmelo Anthony, refuse changed roles (11:53–12:05).

Organizational Dysfunction vs. Player Personality

• Rachel argues the Clippers’ historical lack of culture contributed as much as CP3's persona—if you want a “tree shaker,” don't expect him to be something else (19:34).

"If Chris Paul is in diversion to you as an organization, then you need to take a look in the mirror at what you're doing." — Rachel Nichols (15:44)

• Amin counters that CP3’s approach works with young teams needing guidance (OKC, San Antonio) but grates with veteran teams/coaches not seeking instruction—and this pattern has repeated at multiple franchises (16:41–16:57).

Notable Analogies & Quotes

• "When you're a winner, you can be the biggest dick in the world if it is getting results..."
  — Mike Ryan (35:01)
• "If we have one dude saying, let's do it in this different way... that's the kind of discord that a team cannot abide by..."
  — Amin Elhassan (13:09)

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Platform Shoes, Sideline Tricks, and “Too Tall” Players (24:46–29:46)

Rachel Nichols’ Sideline Logistics

• Dan and Amin tease Rachel for being “too short” to interview 7-footers like Wemby; Rachel explains creative sideline tricks (players leaning on scorer’s table) to get good mic placement.
• Mike Ryan jokes about “Robert Downey Jr. shoes” and reporters needing platforms.
• Light-hearted banter about foot fetishes, journalism degrees, and inside jokes (27:07–29:17).

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Revisiting Chris Paul: Farewells, PR, and Narrative Battles (29:17–34:35)

• Dan: Saddened by CP3’s Clippers “farewell” tour fizzling into isolation.
• Mike Ryan: Explains how CP3’s PR savvy means he always wins the public narrative—getting his side to insiders like Shams before the organization can respond (31:25–34:27).

"I would never get in a PR war with Chris Paul ever... Chris Paul is holding people accountable—that's why he got sent home." — Mike Ryan (33:19)

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Asshole, Winner, or Both? Parsing the True Chris Paul (34:35–36:03)

• The crew agrees: both can be true. CP3 is an all-time winner—and a relentless, sometimes tiresome presence.
• Rachel draws comparison to Jordan, Kobe, and others—when you’re winning, people tolerate it; not so much in decline, on a losing team.

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NBA Front Office & League Policy Frustrations (36:03–37:12)

• Dan & Rachel debate Adam Silver’s stance on the Terry Rozier/Miami Heat situation; apparent regulatory paralysis as no clear rules or precedent exist.
• Mike Ryan: "Doing nothing is always easier." (37:03)

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Rachel’s Recent Internet Controversy: Bam, A’ja, and a “Baby” Joke (37:12–41:55)

• Amin sets context: Rachel references a meme about Sam Presti “already scouting” the hypothetical offspring of Bam Adebayo and A’ja Wilson in an interview—intended as lighthearted, but Bam, A’ja, and fans took it poorly.
• Rachel describes the aggregation cycle, apologizes for hurt feelings, but questions the outrage over an Internet joke with real tragedies occurring that weekend (40:09–41:23).

"If I say or do something that upsets someone else... I'm sorry. I don't go through my day [wanting to] upset someone—that sucks."
— Rachel Nichols (41:35)

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• Juju on his NFL picks: "25 yards should be Scooby Snacks." (02:22)
• Amin on CP3's semantics: "We don't need you to be a lawyer here with the legal terms in the gray area." (05:10)
• Rachel labeling the Clippers culture: "Disturbingly embarrassing team culture over time." (06:19)
• Amin’s analogy: "If I'm an asshole to everybody... and nobody shows up to my party, that should tell you something." (18:19)
• Rachel on organizational dysfunction: "If Chris Paul is in diversion to you as an organization, then you need to look in the mirror..." (15:44)
• Mike Ryan on tolerating winners: "When you are a winner, you can be the biggest dick in the world if it's getting results..." (35:01)
• Mike Ryan on PR wars: "I would never get in a PR war with Chris Paul, ever..." (33:19)
• Amin on NBA player dynamics: "When we have a team, we want to do it this way... so we can be consistent in the way we approach." (19:53)
• Rachel, sincerely apologetic: "I am legitimately, with no reservations, sorry about that. I don't want that to happen." (41:35)

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Fun & Memorable Moments

• Banter about Rachel’s height and sideline tricks with tall NBA players (25:19–26:48)
• Robert Downey Jr. platform shoe jokes and picture searches (27:07–29:17)
• Rachel accusing Amin of a foot fetish, and the show riffing on inside jokes (27:25–27:46)
• Digression into “more ways to skin a cat” idiom history (20:32)

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Segment Timestamps

• 03:14–21:12: Chris Paul, leadership, and the Clippers
• 24:46–29:46: Rachel Nichols on sideline reporting, short interviewer hacks
• 29:46–34:35: Chris Paul PR/narrative management
• 34:35–36:03: Winner vs. asshole/leader archetype
• 36:03–37:12: Heat/Adam Silver/Terry Rozier situation
• 37:12–41:55: Rachel Nichols, Bam & A’ja “baby joke” Twitter dustup

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Conclusion

This hour expertly exemplifies the Dan Le Batard Show’s blend of real sports insight and offbeat, personal humor. The main thread is Chris Paul: what aging means in sports, where legacy and personality sometimes clash with team dynamics—and how unpredictable, even lonely, these endings can be. Rachel Nichols brings both reporting rigor and playful sideline stories, showing how even the most practiced media personalities navigate awkward controversies in real time. Whether philosophizing about leadership, improvising with NBA giants, or apologizing for Internet jokes, the cast blends candor, comedy, and sports debate in a way that’s both accessible and revealing.

Transcript

[Dan Le Batard]

Thursday Night Football is on. And it's only on Prime Video. Brilliant. Just brilliant.

[Amin Elhassan]

This week, the west coast action heats up when the Rams meet the Seahawks.

[Dan Le Batard]

In a huge divisional showdown. Coverage begins at 7pm Eastern with football's best party, TNF tonight presented by Verizon.

[Amin Elhassan]

And don't miss the Broncos and Chiefs on Christmas night.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's Thursday Night Football only on Prime Video. Not a Prime member, Not a problem. Simply sign up for a 30 day free trial. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com amazonprime for details.

[Rachel Nichols]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast Smart move. Being financially savvy.

[Mike Ryan]

Smart move.

[Rachel Nichols]

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[Dan Le Batard]

There's a reason Chevy trucks are known for their dependability. Because they show up no matter the weather, push forward no matter the terrain and deliver. That's why Chevrolet has earned more dependability awards for trucks than any other brand in 2025, according to J.D. power, because in every Chevy truck, like every Chevy driver, dependability comes standard. Visit Chevy.com to learn more. Chevrolet received the highest total number of awards among all the trucks in the J.D. power 2025 U.S. vehicle Dependability Study Awards based on 2022 models. Newer models may be shown. Visit jdpower.com awards for more details. Chevrolet together. Let's drive.

[Juju]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats podcast.

[Jeremy]

That's right, it's Thursday Thunder and it's brought to you by DraftKings.

[Juju]

DraftKings.

[Jeremy]

The Crown is yours, Juju. What do you got?

[Juju]

Congratulations to everyone out there who became billionaires last week because Thursday Thunder is hit again. Yes, sir. So tonight we gonna up it to a little four piece. You feel me? First leg, Kobe Parkinson over 25 yards receiving tonight. With Devonte Adams out, he's gonna have to find more people to toss that field to.

[Zaslow]

Getting a big target chair over the last few weeks, Juju.

[Juju]

Yes, sir. 25 yards should be Scooby Snacks. Next leg, the villainous Puka Nakua for seven receptions. Tonight he gonna be the only one out there. Yeah, Tutu at will I see you. But not tonight on this Thunder ticket. Next leg, I'm going with one of the coolest names in the league, man, Rasheed Shahid. Man My boy will have at least three catches tonight for Seattle and the last leg, Davis Allen, two catches whenever they happen. Lock it in.

[Dan Le Batard]

Juju. You've had, I would say, a hell of a year picking correctly. You haven't. You've hit a lot of two of three parlays, but you've hit the last two Thunders after tonight.

[Juju]

Yes, sir, we will.

[Dan Le Batard]

Congratulations though, because he's had some heartbreakers. Half a yard, some ridiculousness has crushed his parlays. I wanted to ask the group here because of endings and getting endings right, whether it's Tua or Chris Paul. Chris Paul has had a truly majestic career of excellence playing at a time where he didn't get on the banana boat with Carmelo or he did get on the banana boat, but he didn't go the places that Wade and Bosch and LeBron took the league. But a truly excellent player, an all timer by any definition, one of the greatest we've ever seen. And now the reporting on him feels lonely. Like, feels like Chris Paul has been wandering the earth the last few years without a recognizing of his greatness in a proper way. And then he gets to the Clippers and tries to hold people accountable and nobody comes to his parties. And the reporting on this, what's happening here with the reporting on this, as you read between the lines, Amin, because this is not the ending that Chris Paul's excellence deserves.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah, and I don't even think it's the ending that the Clippers wanted out of this. Everyone kind of feels badly, I think, of the situation, but it was a great piece of journalism by Ramona Shelbert. She really dug deep, talked to people behind the scenes and gave us some great blow by blow perspectives of things as they happen, including Chris Paul on the plane grabbing Brooke Lopez to come prove whatever point he was trying to make about like, oh, no, I didn't mean it like that. So I think whenever you read these deep dives, you can kind of tell based on the storytelling who was the person or which side was the one that was more giving with information. And in this one it was clearly Chris Paul side. But the irony is I walked away reading him like, oh my God, like, Chris Paul really doesn't take a hint. Right. It doesn't come across as complimentary to Chris Paul as I think he would have liked it to be based on the things that were said in it. My favorite story, like I said, is him getting. We talked about this where he got into an argument with Jeff Van Gundy about did you change the coverage or Not. And he said, I didn't change the coverage. I merely suggested a change of coverage. And they're like, will you change the coverage? Whatever. And so he literally goes and grabs Kawhi Leonard and, like, one other guy, John Collins. I wanna say, as character witnesses, guys, did I change the coverage? Did I change the coverage? And they're like, no, he just suggested changing the coverage. And I'm like, chris, that's the point. The point that you're sitting here being the locker room lawyer and getting character witnesses or whatever. That's exactly what they're talking about. The semantics of whether you actually change the coverage or merely suggested a change of coverage is what they're talking about. It's just like, we don't need you to be a lawyer here with the legal terms in the gray area.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's what he's always been.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yes, Dan. But I think they had an expectation and they talked to him about it within the. Like, before they signed him. And they reiterate several times now, Chris, this is the kind of role we want you to be in. He's like, yeah, I'm totally cool.

[Mike Ryan]

And.

[Amin Elhassan]

And then, like, of course, he couldn't help himself and he became himself again.

[Rachel Nichols]

I think the thing that when you're a tree shaker, you're always gonna be a tree shaker. And that's what makes Chris Paul great, right? And yeah, he agreed to having a reserve role on the court, but you're never gonna be able to take the Chris Paul out of Chris Paul. And that's sort of silly that the Clippers, who are a downright disturbingly embarrassing team in terms of team culture over time, would pooh, pooh, would dismiss, would besm Chris Paul trying to increase, uplift the culture of the place by, I don't know, throwing a party, trying to get the group chat all together, throwing another party. How dare Chris Paul try to bring the team together.

[Amin Elhassan]

So we talked about this on Basketball Illuminati, the episode is out this week about specifically that. And I think the part that you can't look past is he has the behavior of an asshole. So, like throwing a party, we all know, like a real asshole you don't get along with. Would that person throwing a party making. You know what he means. Well, I'm going to go. No, you'd be like, the hell out of here. Mike, what are you doing tonight?

[Zaslow]

Read the room.

[Amin Elhassan]

Mike, what are you doing tonight?

[Zaslow]

I'm going home.

[Amin Elhassan]

Oh, so you're not coming to the holiday party?

[Zaslow]

No, I'm going to College Station is my last show of the year. Dan.

[Jeremy]

If I threw a party, you'd go, right?

[Dan Le Batard]

You're not coming to the holiday party because you're going to go be with that cult. That cult? Those people at Texas A and M.

[Zaslow]

It's a weird way to frame a business trip.

[Juju]

What's happening? Juju here. The NBA on Prime is back tomorrow with another thrilling double header. It tips off with Tyrese Maxey and the Philadelphia Sixers heading up to Madison Square Garden to take on Jalen Brunson and the New York Knicks. Then the action heads to the west as SGA and the Oklahoma City Thunder visit Anthony Edwards and the Minnesota Timberwolves. And if you're not a Prime member, that's not a problem. Sign up for a 30 day free trial and get started today. The Sixers and Knicks the Thunder versus the Wolves. Be there or be square. Coverage starts tomorrow at 6:30pm Eastern only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details.

[Dan Le Batard]

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[Jeremy]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Don Levatard Amino Hassan Stugats Amino Acid. This is the Don Levitar show with the Stugats.

[Amin Elhassan]

Foreign.

[Dan Le Batard]

I'm surprised to see Chris Paul go out this way. And I'm surprised to mean that anybody would expect Chris Paul to be anything other than form superstar. The Van Gundy say the hardest thing in sports to coach is the aging superstar requesting self awareness of Chris Paul at this point in his career when he's always thought he's leader guy. And I'll bring everybody together. I've got 20 years of proof on my resume that says I'm a.

[Zaslow]

Wait a second. You made the point about an asshole throwing a party and your first question.

[Amin Elhassan]

Was to me, oh no, it was just coincidence. I just thought of a party like, hey, what are you gonna be doing tonight, Dan? Here's a problem. You can be a leader, but it has to be within the kind of like again the auspices of what we're doing here, right? And when we talk about that staff, the very veteran staff of coaches, right? Ty Lewes won a championship. He's a great coach, right? So Jeff Van Gundy, one of the greatest coaches the league has probably seen, right? Larry Drew, former head coach. Brian Shaw, former head coach. So they don't need you to do things that are deviating from what they're doing. A great example of this is Udonis Haslam. You done is Haslam tough guy. You done is Haslam. Confrontation, right? Not, not afraid of confrontation holds people accountable. But you done has never said, yeah, I know. That's what SPO and Quinn and all those.

[Dan Le Batard]

Half the player that Chris Paul is doesn't have the experiences that a bunch of other organizations. Chris Paul has.

[Amin Elhassan]

I'll give you another.

[Dan Le Batard]

And Carmelo Anthony refuses to come off the bench because he's not going to be somebody who shoots.

[Amin Elhassan]

That's not what we're talking about here.

[Dan Le Batard]

Chris Paul is an aging superstar. He's five years past where Carmelo.

[Amin Elhassan]

I need to stop you because you're talking about Carmelo. And Carmelo was playing and expected to be a starter. Chris Paul, when he was signed with the Clippers, they were abundantly clear. Now, Chris, you're probably not going to play a whole lot. I'm not talking about minutes, I'm talking about games. You're not going to play that much. We want you here to be a steadying force, be a locker room voice, a leader. All These.

[Rachel Nichols]

A locker room voice, Krista.

[Amin Elhassan]

A locker room voice that is not in contrary to what the coaches are talking about.

[Rachel Nichols]

But what if they're wrong?

[Amin Elhassan]

Then that's a different story. But you can't have a situation where you got a guy who's actively basically subverting everything we talk about. Hey, guys, let's go left. I think we should go right. Hey, guys, let's go up. I think we should go down. Like, whenever you do all that stuff, I don't give a damn what your resume is. I don't give a. Especially when you were. If he was the star player, if it was Kawhi Leonard doing this, then that's a different story, right? You were signed to be the 15th man. The 15th man. Even if you're right, keep your opinions to yourself or at best, try to reach a common ground with the coaches so that when we're communicating to the team, we're all lockstep. I told a story about Boris Diaw on the Basketball Illuminati podcast about him being exactly like that. Like just kind of a contrarian. But also write a whole lot of time because he's a basketball genius. But the reason why we have schemes and we have systems and ways of doing things is not because this is what's gonna make the basketball genius the best. It's because not everyone on the roster is a basketball genius. And so if we have one dude saying, let's do it in this different way, you got guys like, wait, are we doing it this way? Are we doing it that way? And that's the kind of discord that a team cannot abide by, even if they're as awful as the Clippers have been this year.

[Rachel Nichols]

I totally disagree, though, that this reporting makes Chris Paul look bad to me. I think it makes the Clippers look really, really bad and really out of touch. If you think you can quell and silence Chris Paul ever, despite you're the 15th man off the bench, I mean, what are we doing here?

[Amin Elhassan]

That is just delusion, I think, again, one is when. When that's the framework of which why you're even here, I think that changes things. And two, I could think of a lot of great players who did like, and were accomplished and everything, and they went along with it. They didn't. They did not buck against this. And the biggest thing for me in the story is multiple times they made it clear to him, dude, you gotta chill. Like, that's not your role right here. And including there's one time where he's like, yeah, Can I address the team and apologize to the team? My bad, guys, I was out of line. It's like it was being told to you. So at some point, and I'm big on this, from just a regular. Whatever type of business you do, when someone makes mistakes, you don't say, get his ass out of here. You have a conversation, you have multiple conversations. Hey man, you keep doing this thing, it really is an issue. I need you to really cut back on it at some point. When they don't, what do you do? What's your next step? Do you just let him keep doing what he's doing?

[Rachel Nichols]

So my question is, why wasn't there a problem in San Antonio? He started all these games, they welcomed him back. He would have been there again. San Antonio is a consummate professional, well run organization. And yet Chris Paul, not a peep about him being a problem. Oklahoma City Thunder, he ends up going there, has this great relationship with Shea Shay, becomes an mvp. It really is like the beginning of the. Again, another well run organization. To me it's like, well, if Chris Paul is in diversion to you as an organization, then you need to take a look in the mirror at what you're doing. That might not be working.

[Amin Elhassan]

So two things. Number one, both of those organizations, both those teams, what do they have a shit ton of young guys. Not guys who have won championships, not old vets, not guys who have been around the NBA block millions of times. These are all guys who are like, Chris Paul's teaching me about the game. I never knew these things. That's a big difference. When you talk about that energy coming into a locker room, Nicholas Batum is.

[Dan Le Batard]

Not over there saying, I could learn some things from the old fella.

[Amin Elhassan]

Also, again, coaches, younger coaches, right? Mitch Johnson for most of last year because Pop was sick, right? Mark Dagnaut at the beginning of his NBA career. So I'm a young coach, I'm a sponge. Give me more. Ty Lue is not looking for like guidance from a guy like he knows what he's doing, right? And Jeff Van Gunn even more so. The second thing, and this is really important to notice, and this is something I think people in league circles know, but I don't know if the common fan knows. He was so great for San Antonio, right? Why isn't he there right now?

[Rachel Nichols]

He wanted to come back to la.

[Amin Elhassan]

He was so great for Oklahoma City, right? Why wasn't he there more than a year?

[Rachel Nichols]

Trying to get the bag somewhere else.

[Amin Elhassan]

Goes to Phoenix, we can play this game for. Why did he leave Phoenix.

[Rachel Nichols]

Now you're starting.

[Amin Elhassan]

Why did he leave Houston? Why did he leave the Clippers? Like, this is who he is, guys.

[Zaslow]

Dry heat.

[Amin Elhassan]

Like, Jeremy started. Jeremy started with. This is. Like, this is. What were they expecting? And I'm like, yeah, on some level, yes. But like, on some level, you expect someone to take inventory of. Like, hey, man, I don't have. And here comes the word again, the leeway that I once had to act like an asshole all the time and wear people out. When I'm the 15th, man, I can do it. When I'm an All Star, I can do it even when I'm the aging vet who's come here to teach Victor Wembanyama and Dem boys how to play. I can't do it from this seat right here. And like, that's why I'm saying, Dan, when you compare to Carmelo, Carmelo was still like a year removed from being an All Star. Like, Carmelo was still a guy who thought I could play.

[Dan Le Batard]

You're telling me that you think that Chris Paul, hall of Famer, should have some sort of self awareness that I would not think he would ever have? After a lifetime of overcoming odds, being the tiniest of players, and being someone who can always disprove everyone, you think he's going to have an awareness of all the Clippers have this, right? Not me. Not me who's a Hall of Famer. The Clippers are doing things correctly. When I got strip club James and Kawhi, who never wants to play out here, they're the ones who are doing.

[Rachel Nichols]

It in the middle of a scandal about cap subversion as well.

[Amin Elhassan]

But Chris Paul has no bearing on any of those things. That's the point.

[Dan Le Batard]

But self awareness is the one he's showing up to. He's throwing parties that no one's attending, that no one on his team is attending.

[Amin Elhassan]

If I'm an asshole to everybody, right? Like, he had not nobody. Some people showed up, some staffers, a couple of players. But the idea was it wasn't like 100% attendance. That should tell you something. It's like, remember the movie Draft Day? The guy had a birthday party and nobody showed up. Like, that tells you something about. You guys are like, oh, how dare them.

[Rachel Nichols]

Like, you think it tells me something about the Clippers, really, I feel.

[Amin Elhassan]

But hold on, hold on. So we can make this about the Clippers, because they've been a brand of ineptitude, right? Been known for ineptitude. Even though last year they had a really good season, they had one of the best defenses. They pushed the Nuggets to seven games. All those things. We could throw that out and say, overall, the Clippers have been kind of a little bit of a lack of stuff, right? If we look at those individual players, are we saying now that, like, hey, this, like, what's his name? Zubash? You're Sus. Are we saying Bones Highland, and, like, definitely Bones Highland.

[Rachel Nichols]

Sus.

[Amin Elhassan]

I'm just saying to you like this. They have a roster of players that have been around the league and have been successful in this league, whether it's individually or on the highest level of winning. At what point do we take a look at the guy who was known for his whole career being kind of an irritating asshole that, hey, the reason in the show isn't because of a lifetime of us being an inept franchise, but it's because you're a jerk and I don't like being around you.

[Rachel Nichols]

Well, but the thing that I don't get is, if his wisdom was so poor, then why. I mean, obviously, Victor Wambanyama is a huge piece of San Antonio success, as is Shea in Oklahoma City. But if his wisdom was so bad and they were soaking it up, then you would think that they wouldn't improve or they would at least stagnate.

[Amin Elhassan]

Well, it's not that the wisdom is poor or bad. Again, I'm going back to. It's incongruent sometimes. So there's many ways to skin a cat, right? You could say, oh, I'm gonna do it this way, and you do this way. And it's not like this way is the best way or this way is the worst way to do it. It's just, these are different ways. But when you're in a team environment and we've got a system of doing things, we want to do it this way. Coaches will say this all the time. If I draw up a play or drop a scheme and a scheme don't work, that's my fault. If we don't follow the scheme, then whose fault is it? Like, so that's the thing. They want you to do it that way just so that we can be consistent in the way we approach.

[Jeremy]

Are there that many ways to skin a cat?

[Dan Le Batard]

Why are we skinning cats? Why are we skinning cats?

[Jeremy]

So it dates back to 1670. English naturalist John Ray provided the earliest written version in his collection of English proverbs. There's more than one way to skin a cat, but it also says there are more ways to kill a dog than hanging. So apparently, apparently There's. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Was to be sort of an equal opportunist animal abuser.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yo. Speaking. Speaking of dogs, I got a thing about people bringing dogs on vacation or on trips. I should say.

[Dan Le Batard]

Rachel Nichols. Next.

[Zaslow]

The World cup is coming back to North America for the first time since 1994. 48 teams, these giant stadiums, the whole continent turning into one massive party. I cannot wait. But actually getting tickets to any of this. Yeah, that part.

[Amin Elhassan]

Brutal.

[Zaslow]

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[Jeremy]

Marty Supreme Christmas Day. Marty Supreme Christmas Day. Marty Supreme Christmas Day. Marty Supreme Christmas Day. You know what I'm going to be doing on Christmas Day? And it's going to be watching Marty supreme. Because I didn't even need to know that critics were calling Marty Supreme a full throttle masterpiece and the best movie of the year. I already knew that was going to be the case. From A24 and starring Timothee Chalamet alongside powerhouse cast Gwyneth Paltrow, Odessa Azion and Tyler Akoma. Marty Supreme Christmas Day Only in theaters.

[Zaslow]

It's the holiday season and the 50th anniversary of Miller Lite. The holiday is all about spending time with friends and family. Why don't you sit back and toast a few Miller Lights? Make your holiday time tis Miller Time. And with the 50th anniversary of Miller Lite, you get to remember and reflect on all the good times that you had with your trusty buddy by your side. Miller Lite, brewed for flavor with simple ingredients like malted barley rich balanced toffee notes and that iconic golden color. And at 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces, it lets you enjoy the season without weighing you down. The original light beer since 1975 and still hitting different 50 years later. The best holiday beers are the ones you don't expect. Miller Lite great taste. 96 calories. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Tis Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Don LeBatard, you getting started on the breakfast flan?

[Amin Elhassan]

Oh man, I've been singing a song to myself all morning long. Breakfast flan stewgats. Have you ever heard the breakfast Flan song?

[Zaslow]

Hit me with it.

[Amin Elhassan]

Okay? I wish I had some breakfast flan. Breakfast flan. Where can I find a breakfast like that?

[Dan Le Batard]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugach. She's an Emmy award winning journalist, longtime NBA reporter, host, analyst.

[Amin Elhassan]

All the smoke.

[Dan Le Batard]

Fox Sports, Sports Illustrated. Too many things to mention. A resume that has climbed over all sorts of obstacles. None bigger than the one I have in front of her today. She is not the size of Victor Wembanyama. They are making players too big for the sideline reporter. It has become a thing. It's embarrassing. She looks like David Sampson everywhere she goes around. Wemby and others. 7 foot 6. What are you shaking your head about?

[Amin Elhassan]

I mean, she was never. She's always been way too short. So like they could make them 8ft tall. It's not going to matter. They all look the same.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, but they are now officially too tall for her to get the microphone in a place where the audio can be good.

[Amin Elhassan]

No, she's got a box that she travels with.

[Mike Ryan]

She has a little, I do not, you know, box. What happened to the crate? No crate. There's no box. There's no crate. I do have a trick, but with Wendy, he's even too tall to make it work. First of all, Amin's favorite magic trick with me is when he gets to be around other people. He suddenly in the middle of an arena, a street corner, he'll be like, take your shoes off, take your shoes off. This is a weird thing for one friend to say to another. Why? I mean, do you ask me to take my shoes off in public places?

[Amin Elhassan]

Cuz her height drops from whatever short she is to a lot short to Brad Williams.

[Dan Le Batard]

You Accused her of using a crate.

[Amin Elhassan]

I've seen the crate. I've seen the crate. Not every time, but I've seen the.

[Mike Ryan]

Crate maybe once, maybe seven or eight times, but only. Only when we were setting up for, like, a bigger thing. Yes. I wear a very large platform kind of heel situation when I'm in basketball because I'm five foot four. Is that picture you guys just threw up showed? Wendy is 7 foot 6, though. And my trick with players like Shaq when he was in Miami would be if you are a foot or more taller than me and we're doing a sideline interview, I would make the guys come to the scores table and they would sort of sit, lean on the scores table and I would sit, stand. So there's a bunch of pictures of like Lebron and me and Miami or a couple other places where, like, the player is sitting on the scorers table and I'm standing. And that's how you can do an interview where you can look each other at least somewhat in the eye.

[Jeremy]

Rachel, you just changed my. This is incredible news. I color has made life very, very difficult on me. I look shorter than I ever have. And you just made things a lot better.

[Dan Le Batard]

You're going to wear. Are you going to wear shoes like De Niro and Al Pacino do in the movies where they're wearing, like, these?

[Mike Ryan]

Robert Downey Jr. Have you seen what he wears?

[Dan Le Batard]

I have not. The famous photo I've seen is De Niro and Pacino walking around on. On, like, stilts for shoes.

[Mike Ryan]

Go, go look at Google. Google Robert Downey Jr. S feet. And I don't mean that in the way that Zazlo might mean. I just mean, whoa.

[Dan Le Batard]

I thought Brad Williams caught the more stray this segment. She just accused you of a foot fetish.

[Amin Elhassan]

I mean, she's not wrong, but I don't know that.

[Dan Le Batard]

Like, that's never been disclosed before. How does she know that that was not canon?

[Rachel Nichols]

Unlike the fact that your number one thing we should know about you is that you don't want to be a cuck.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah, it's true.

[Juju]

We do know that.

[Mike Ryan]

Big J journalism.

[Dan Le Batard]

How does she know this about you? How does she know from looking at you? She can tell you have a foot fetish. Yeah. Explain yourself, Rachel.

[Mike Ryan]

I want you to explain yourself. I heard some contradictory things in the last couple of segments. Do you or do you not have a journalism degree? Because you applied. You did. And then it was sort of glossed over.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, of course. Yes, yes, absolutely. Of course, yes.

[Mike Ryan]

From where?

[Dan Le Batard]

University of Florida, Santa Fe, that's not true, Mike.

[Amin Elhassan]

You're confusing Rachel.

[Dan Le Batard]

Let's just give her the important information.

[Zaslow]

A lot of people confuse Florida with Santa Fe. You went to Santa Fe Community.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, I did not.

[Zaslow]

Rachel, we're getting bogged down here. You went to Santa Fe.

[Dan Le Batard]

Okay, next. Fine.

[Zaslow]

Next question.

[Mike Ryan]

All right, Robert Downey Jr. S feet. Has anyone found them yet?

[Dan Le Batard]

They're looking for it. You just throw it at the video department. They can be slow. They're looking for it.

[Mike Ryan]

All right, I'm just telling you, the platforms are real. But, yeah, that's what you have to do if you're a sideline reporter. You have to improvise sometimes because some of us are small. And as Amin likes to tell people, I am Hershey's Kiss, guys, and, you know, you gotta have your tricks. I don't know what to do with Wemby, though. You guys saw the photo. It is a difficult thing to figure out how to get him in the same frame as me or even hold the microphone up that high.

[Dan Le Batard]

Rachel, I'm looking at you guys to.

[Mike Ryan]

Think about 2ft above your head.

[Dan Le Batard]

Rachel, I'm looking at Robert Downey Jr. His platform shoes. And I mean, they're.

[Amin Elhassan]

They're rather large.

[Mike Ryan]

Thank you. Thank you. I knew you'd find them. Of all the people, I knew you'd find the feet first.

[Dan Le Batard]

He's a journalist. I wanted to include you on the conversation we were having before you came on here. I feel bad that Chris Paul is getting this as punctuation. I think as the most popular clipper ever, the one who helped restore the franchise to something of relevance. I think that he thought he was going to get the big tour at the end, and now it's just the punctuation of Zubotches at the holiday party, rummaging through the pretzels, and there's no one else there. Like, what? It's. It makes me super sad to see this go going out this way.

[Mike Ryan]

First of all, the pretzels are super good over there, so don't feel too sad, because their main claim to fame on the Clippers right now is that the pretzels are really good. If you go to the arena, the pretzels are excellent. And I don't know what that says about the rest of the team, but that's the most exciting thing we can say right now. You have an organization under investigation. You have an owner being sued externally, and it sounds like possibly, you know, that there's. There's more coming. You have a losing team. You have a franchise Star that is never is there, not that often. And you now have the Chris Paul situation. You got to celebrate the pretzels. I would have expected differently. Everybody who says, oh, they know what they were going to get with Chris Paul, I think sometimes the reality is, is different from the expectation. Even if you've had a player before, having a guy at the end of the Ben who's trying to stick his nose into what the coaches are doing or as critical of other players is a lot different than having your lead point guard on the floor. And I think that's what they didn't quite expect. But I also think it could have been handled differently. I don't. I don't understand a situation where it was better to have this PR nightmare in a season of other PR nightmares than it was to get a few more wins in a season where it's not really going to matter that much anyway.

[Dan Le Batard]

But you know the real stuff about what people think about people behind the scenes. Chris Paul has always been viewed as a bit of a politician. So you bring him into the organization and he starts telling people, this is how I would do it. How surprised are you allowed to be by him not having self awareness? When everyone in the league who knows anything about Chris Paul knows that he thinks he's a superstar because he always has been.

[Mike Ryan]

Not just thinks he's a superstar, but knows all the details of how to do something the right way. And by the way, he often does. And that's part of what's annoying also, is not just that he's so sort of forceful in his opinion about every little thing you might be doing. It's also annoying sometimes that he's right. Right. That's what gets on players. But here's the thing I would say about Chris Paul, and this is where the Clippers made the biggest mistake. It wasn't bringing him in. It wasn't how they handled it. You know that line in the Princess Bride where it's like never get in a land war with a Sicilian? Is that what they say? Right.

[Dan Le Batard]

I know it. But Chris Cody might need some elaboration.

[Mike Ryan]

Why? Because he's 12. What? You haven't seen the Princess Bride?

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't know what you're talking about. I'm sorry to reveal to everybody, Rachel, that I don't know what you're mentioning in court. You don't know the Princess Bride?

[Zaslow]

I'm Reinery.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah.

[Mike Ryan]

Rob Reiner would be ashamed of you.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't need that today.

[Zaslow]

That's one. No. You should feel that you should feel that.

[Mike Ryan]

That is. That is troubling. There is a line where he's like, is my guys shipping? Am I right? Is it never getting a land war.

[Amin Elhassan]

With the Sicilians within Asia? Is with the.

[Mike Ryan]

In Asia. Never getting the land war in Asia.

[Dan Le Batard]

That was good confidence, good conviction there. I mean, good. That was strong. Strong confidence.

[Amin Elhassan]

Don't, don't. Don't deflect. Don't make.

[Dan Le Batard]

I'm not defensive about not watching the Princess Bride.

[Zaslow]

How did we know? That's as you should be.

[Mike Ryan]

You should be defensive about that. That's where the young Fred Savage got his start. Okay. Anyway, my point is that I would never get in the PR war with Chris Paul ever. Because here's the thing. The minute they had that meeting, did Chris Paul wait until the next morning to start putting out his side? No. 233 in the morning, we got. They sent me home, right? That was the message we got. The Clippers did something to him then. Who's the loudest voice in NBA circles right now in terms of news? The biggest news megaphone right now is Shams over at espn. There is a phone call made to someone from someone that got the message to Shams and this was the quote. It was. He was holding teammates and coaches accountable and they didn't like it. That was the sentence. Not, he was being a dick. Not he was embarrassing people in front of the locker room. By the way, I'm not saying he did any of these things, but you could use the same action and describe it in two different ways. Man, Chris Paul really putting his nose in other people's business and being critical of players and like being a pain in the ass in the coach's side. Or the story could be Chris Paul is holding people accountable. Guess whose version got out right away? Chris Paul holding people accountable. That's why he got sent home by the Clippers. I wouldn't get into the PR battle with this man to save my life. And I don't think the Clippers have recovered from that one sentence. And I think a lot of the people who come here in Los Angeles to see the Clippers play, yes, the pretzels are very good, but they were coming for Chris Paul's farewell tour. And now I think they're going to sell us tickets just around the whole country. And certainly here without Chris on the floor, I would not get into a PR war with Chris Paul or a land war with an Asian or a movie war with Dan Levittart, apparently, because he hasn't seen any of the good.

[Amin Elhassan]

Ones you should absolutely get in a movie with Dan Levittart because he's going to lose every single time. Him and Zazzle, they're terrible. I'm a great movie guy. How dare you does sports movies.

[Rachel Nichols]

Rachel, you mentioned and so did Dan, like everybody around the league thinks or knows that Chris Paul is an asshole or a dickhead or whatever, but he's also known as a winner. And how much you can skew the same action into two different, different narratives. Like from what? You know, what is the real story? Is he a winner? Is he a consummate pro or is he an asshole that gets on everybody's nerves and he gets kicked out the door every place he goes?

[Dan Le Batard]

Yes.

[Mike Ryan]

Well, look, he is definitely a winner. There's no doubt about that. I know he hasn't won a title, but there's a lot of people in NBA history who haven't won a title. If you look at all of the other things he has done, he is definitely, he's a first ballot hall of Famer. Also, he can be a pain in the ass. By the way, Kobe Bryant is someone who was celebrated. Michael Jordan, what did everybody think about after they watched that documentary? Man, that guy was an asshole. Isn't that great? I mean, how much of an ass did Jordan come off of in that documentary? And everybody thought it was the best thing they had ever heard. When you are a winner, you can be the biggest dick in the world if it is getting results, if you are doing it in a way that makes other people amused. And oh man, do you see how he tore that guy apart? It's when you're at the end of the bench, at the end of your career, on a losing team, with guys who maybe have heard your act before and don't really want to hear it anymore, that's when it's harder. So both things are true. It's a great question. Both things are true. But it just really depends on where and when you are of how people feel about those things being true.

[Dan Le Batard]

Rachel, is it fair for Heat fans like myself to be frustrated with Adam Silver, seemingly unwilling to do something in regards to the Terry Rozier Miami Heat situation?

[Mike Ryan]

No. I mean, look, I was in the room with Adam. Was it yesterday or two days ago when somebody asked him, Tim Reynolds from the AP asked him about the Terry Rozier situation and he basically gave a version of hey, what are you going to do? Right now I think the NBA is a little stuck because Rosier hasn't been found guilty yet from this federal investigation. It does feel to me that you could compensate the Heat in some way for this time going by whether it's the way the salary cap relief is, even if they have to keep paying him, it's the way what counts and what doesn't count. Obviously, whether this draft conveys or not is going to be an issue, but it's. If I'm a Heat fan, I would want more from the league.

[Dan Le Batard]

I just feel like.

[Amin Elhassan]

I just feel like the commissioner is.

[Dan Le Batard]

Throwing his hands up, so there's no precedent.

[Amin Elhassan]

So I don't know what to do.

[Mike Ryan]

Literally. Literally what they are doing, but there isn't. And I think doing nothing is always easier. Right?

[Zaslow]

Yeah.

[Mike Ryan]

Isn't it?

[Amin Elhassan]

Yep.

[Dan Le Batard]

I want to play for you or show you a controversy that you're in the middle of here with Asia Wilson and Bam Adebayo. Now, you didn't ask. Ask this question of either of them. Zaslow got. Zaslow's telling us that Bam and Asia are being too sensitive. Amin, can you offer the context, please, to this story? Because you were defending Rachel very, very fervently.

[Amin Elhassan]

Yeah. So Rachel. I mean, Rachel can speak for herself, obviously, but she's.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, no, no.

[Mike Ryan]

I like it. Me. Help me out.

[Amin Elhassan]

Okay. She's interviewing Shay Gilgamesh Alexander. Shay Gilius Alexander plays for the Thunder. And obviously, Sam Presti is not only very shrewd or whatever, but also they have 8 billion pics forever. So Rachel makes a joke about. Do you think Sam Presley has already scouted?

[Dan Le Batard]

It's a funny joke.

[Amin Elhassan]

The future child of Asia Wilson and Bam Adebayo. And I guess Asia and Bam felt a certain type of way about that. Does that cover it?

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah. I mean, by the way, it wasn't even my joke. I don't want to take credit for it. It was already going around the Internet, and so we thought it would be funny to ask Shay. Oh, by the way. With a long interview about other things also. But at the very end is sort of a fun throwaway. Like, did you see this? And we showed the. Because I don't take credit for other people's jokes. Dan Levitard. Did you see that? This sort of, you know, making its way around the Internet.

[Dan Le Batard]

Why did you say my first and last name there? Hurdling accusations.

[Zaslow]

Three straights.

[Amin Elhassan]

She's right.

[Dan Le Batard]

Why both my first and last name there, as if I was somebody who did that?

[Amin Elhassan]

Because if you said Dan, they might think Danny Benitez.

[Zaslow]

No, that's. Zaz went to Santa Fe, though. That's the most important one.

[Mike Ryan]

My point is, I was like, oh, this is a funny thing that's out there that you might have already seen. What has been your reaction? Right. And apparently, you know, it's one of these things that got aggregated differently than it was quite asked and then got, you know, misconstrued and all of those things. I didn't really dive in on it afterward because I do. I just felt like there's a lot going on over the weekend while this was what was being commented on that was pretty serious and it was actually happening pretty simultaneously. And I felt like while there were kids being shot at, I wasn't going to start getting into parsing. You know, this is funny. This isn't funny. Can you guys take a joke? Like, obviously, if somebody's upset about a joke that, by the way, someone else on the Internet told that we helped, you know, sort of get more into the zeitgeist. I'm sorry about that. I definitely don't ever want to upset anyone over something small. But also, I'm not sure. I'm not sure, given the larger scope, it was the thing that I really wanted to dive in and argue about because it's just joking about GM being a really good scout and oh, my God, he's already scouting people's babies. I already lived that. They don't exist. I covered tennis, Dan, you may remember, and when Andre Agassi and Steph Graf got married, it's not like there wasn't a million jokes about their kids and what kind of players they were going to be.

[Dan Le Batard]

That was a shitty apology to them. I'm sorry. There were important things going on in the world, like super insincere apology. You're not actually sorry, am I?

[Mike Ryan]

I'm sorry. Was this supposed to be an apology?

[Dan Le Batard]

That was also. Sorry that. Sorry. There was also insincere. You did say I didn't want to get into a back and forth with them publicly.

[Mike Ryan]

That's why we didn't. That's why we didn't talk about it.

[Rachel Nichols]

She didn't want to clap back. She wasn't going to bow down.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, she said right now she wanted to clap back, but unfortunate things were happening in the country. She wanted to clap back.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm explaining why I didn't get into it at the time. I'm happy to get into it now. I am always, like legit 100%. If I say or do something that upsets someone else, even if I'm right, they're wrong. If they're right, I'm wrong. I am sorry. I don't go through my day and upset someone that sucks. Who wants to be that person? Well, maybe some people in that room, but I don't want to be that person. And so I am 100% sincerely sorry if I. And when I make someone upset, and in this case it appears from the Internet that Bam and or Asia was upset, I am legitimately with no reservations, sorry about that. I don't want that to happen. I don't know Asia that well, but I like her. I know Bam pretty well from covering him. I know his family. It is not something I would want to do.

[Dan Le Batard]

Dan, you know about that clapback. Better, better apology there, Rachel. More sincere there at the end.

[Mike Ryan]

But I have a question for you guys. Do you think that something like that, hey, Steffi Graf and Andre Agassi are gonna have a kid? Do you think, do you think someone's already gonna sign them up for world team tennis or do you think, I don't know. I'm trying to think of other couples that have had celebrity couples.

[Dan Le Batard]

Do I think that Bam and Asia would make Olympic babies?

[Mike Ryan]

Yes.

[Rachel Nichols]

Play the David Sampson clip.

[Dan Le Batard]

See you later, Rachel. Good talking to you. How'd she know about the feet? It is weird. What does Zyn give you? Not just smoke free nicotine satisfaction, but real freedom. Freedom to do what you love and choose your rewards. With Zyn Rewards, you can redeem points for premium tech outdoor gear and gift cards to your favorite retailers. Find your zinn and keep finding rewards that fit your [e-mail] rewards. Warning. This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.