← The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Hour 3: The Jail Blazers Of The 1900s (feat. Bonzi Wells)
00:40:01
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- [00:01]
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- [00:20]
Mike Ryan
Mmm.
- [00:21]
Quaker Oats Advertiser
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- [00:29]
Bonzi Wells
K Pop Demon Hunters, Saja Boy's Breakfast Meal and Hunt Trick's Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi? It's not a battle. So glad the Saja Boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.
- [00:43]
Quaker Oats Advertiser
It is an honor to share.
- [00:45]
Uber Eats Advertiser
No, it's our honor.
- [00:47]
Quaker Oats Advertiser
It is our larger honor.
- [00:48]
Greg Cody
No, really, stop.
- [00:50]
Bonzi Wells
You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side. Ba da ba ba ba. And participate in McDonald's while supplies last.
- [00:59]
Zaslow
This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugach podcast.
- [01:07]
Dan Le Batard
I've told you guys for a while here that I've been looking forward to this Trailblazers documentary. Bonzi Wells. We've spoken to Bonzi before, and I always thought that the difference between how Bonzi was covered and how Bonzi actually was was different. And so I'm looking forward to watching this documentary because I want to see the difference between the coverage and who these guys really were. So thank you, Bo Munzee, for joining us. We appreciate your time. Did you learn much of anything during the documentary? Was it something that was illuminating to you in any way?
- [01:40]
Bonzi Wells
It was. You know, during that time, you know, I was so young. I was a fresh rookie, 22 years old. So I didn't really know what was going on on the other side. So to get stories from Bob Whitsett, who was our president GM at the time, telling the other stuff, the other side, and then just the Damon stories, Rasheed stories, and the stuff that was going on that I was seeing that I just thought was normal and just the way it got portrayed and just to kind of clear a lot of that mess up and not saying we was right or wrong, but just kind of just getting the true message out there is that was. That was the point of the whole project.
- [02:12]
Dan Le Batard
When you say the Damon stories, are you talking about the one and a half ounces of marijuana trying to get it through airport security using aluminum foil?
- [02:20]
Bonzi Wells
Yeah, that was the second or third incident, but we Just wanted to talk about the root of it, how it started. And you know, Damon was a home is a hometown hero. So you got it. You know, his story was more about how his, how you treated being a hometown hero and how do you have the domino effect with that. And then his story about the bounce back and that's, that was his story. You know, Rashid's story was documented. My story, you know, just kind of just settled the real with my story. That was the point of the whole thing and people just needed to hear it. You know, obviously back then there wasn't no social media. We had a media boycott. So we didn't ever talk to the media personally about anything. So to talk about it now, to start therapeutic for, for everybody, both sides,
- [02:57]
Dan Le Batard
I think Untold Jailblazers streaming on Netflix today. Therapeutic how? Which parts of it were personally therapeutic?
- [03:06]
Bonzi Wells
I mean you just talk about stories and narratives that were out there that you never may have talked about. You know, Damon talks so much stuff about, you know, things that happen with him. Being a hometown kid. Rashid talked about things because, you know, you never get Rashid to talk, period. So just to get him on, on any video talking about things. He's a great storyteller as you're going to, as you're going to see. It was great. And just for myself, you know, talking about the Sports Illustrated article that killed my career and just saying the real what really was said because back then we wasn't talking to the media so we didn't even care what people wrote about us. And that was one of our downfalls. So it's just good to talk about it now, you know, for all of us.
- [03:45]
Dan Le Batard
Answer a couple of follow ups on both of those things that you just mentioned. Not talking to the media, how did that come to be? Why did that come to be? I'm imagining it's because you guys didn't feel like you were being covered fairly and so you weren't going to cooperate with that transaction.
- [04:00]
Bonzi Wells
Well, it may have had some undertone of that, but it more was solidarity with Rashid. You know, Rashid is our brother and you know, when it comes with the headbands and everything, you know, we started wearing headband that was solidarity with our team. That was us. We don't care about the outside. And when Rashid wasn't talking, we're not going to sit back and talk and kiki with the media and then go be in his face because we with him way more than we with the media. So he was way more important than the media to us. So that Was more solidarity, like, all right, if you're going to write what you want, write what you want. We don't care. And that's just what it was.
- [04:30]
Dan Le Batard
How did the Sports Illustrated article ruin your career?
- [04:32]
Bonzi Wells
Well, it was weird because, you know, during that time, this is before going viral, was going viral, you know, people was just coming in town every other week to try to get a story and talk to somebody to write something so they can be, you know, blown up virally. So we got the word that Sports Illustrated was coming in town to write an article. We already knew what it was going to be. It was going to be negative. And this guy, this clown was just coming around asking these old loaded questions that, you know, he was trying to set you up, up, and. But you still got media obligations or you're going to get fined, so you have to talk to him somewhat. So he. He asked me a simple question. After we played a bad game, we got booed off the court. And he asked me, how do you feel about the fans booing, booing you? And we said, we hate it. Simple. And he said, asked me another question. What can you do to make it better? And I said, if we come out and play better, they'll love us again. That's kind of how this goes. And he totally wrote something. Bonzi said he hates the fans and this and that. And I'm just like, man, these clowns ain't gonna bleed. I mean, they're not going to believe this clown. Man, this Portland family, they love me. And I'm not even going to say anything. You know, they never. The Portland Troublers never asked me to say rebuttal, nothing. And I just let it be in the next game. I went out there and they booed me so bad. And it broke my heart to the core because I was like, portland, we family. You're going to let an outsider tell you something about your family? That's what hurt the most with me. And that just made me more into it with a rebel. Like, they turned on family, which was totally untrue. But just my immature mind made me think that.
- [05:55]
Dan Le Batard
Take us back to there. Have you hurt like that before? Like, where are the places that you look at your playing career? And because it, it just sounds like you got your heart broken. Like, wait a minute, I thought we were in this together.
- [06:06]
Bonzi Wells
I mean, that, that was it. That, that, that, that taught me a lesson about the business and, and it's just what it was. And some of it was my fault. I probably should have never talked to the guy that gave him anything but. And I probably should have just went immediately to the, to the paper, said my, my, my truth, sued the Sports Illustrated guy and see how that play out. But I was just so young and immature. Like, I'm not. We're not talking. We not talking. So that part right there hurt me. And everywhere I went after that, narrative wise, people kind of had a standoffish attitude towards me until I proved to them that I'm a really cool, cool guy. And I'm not on that in real life. It's just basketball. And that's what I've been doing for 20 years plus since that article.
- [06:46]
Dan Le Batard
How did you feel watching the documentary?
- [06:49]
Bonzi Wells
You know, I don't want to put the documentary together. You know, eight years ago I had an idea like, our story needs to be told. And, you know, I'm more of a connector. I didn't write anything down on paper. I just had an idea. And when we started the big three in 2017 with Ice Cube, it just kind of put me around a different cachet of people. And I just started talking to people that was in that world and they just kind of started connecting the dots. And I met a few guys that helped me and I was like, listen, it's a story to be told here with these jailblazers. I don't know how it's gonna. We're gonna write it. I don't know how it's gonna end, but it's a story here. Let's talk. And I was just working hard and finally got the right guy. Netflix agreed to the deal and it came out perfect in my eyes. I mean, it kept the main thing. The main thing, it didn't attack anyone too bad. I mean, it may have talked about the city of Portland just a little bit, but it didn't attack the trailblazers or anything like that. It just told the real story and everybody took accountability and it just came out perfect in my assumption, in my
- [07:45]
Dan Le Batard
opinion, anything that changed your perspective, anything that you were watching that you were like, huh, maybe I might think different, differently about how I experienced all of that.
- [07:57]
Bonzi Wells
No, not at all. I mean, it takes you back. It takes you back. But I was young. I was young, just happy to be there. I was happy to be around the guys. I mean, I'm a kid from a small town in Indiana, so now I'm hanging with superstars. Scottie Pippen, Damon started my Rashid. These guys were well known names in the basketball world. So I was just enjoying the ride. And I was thankful for every step, every person that came into my life every. Everything that happened. I mean, I learned a lot from it as a man. And now I just talk to the younger kids about life decisions and things like that, which, you know, helps the next generation. So I don't take anything back from those moments.
- [08:31]
Dan Le Batard
When you were coaching Georgia Tech with Damon Stoudemire, did your players know about your playing days in a meaningful way?
- [08:39]
Bonzi Wells
You know, it's funny. This generation don't really, you know, they. They don't. You know, you can talk your trash to them and they go watch a little film, but they don't respect somewhat. You know, what you guys, what we did in the 2000s and, you know, the 1900s, as they say in the 1900s, they don't, you know, it's tough to respect that because, you know, we didn't have a bag. Our games weren't flashy. You know, our games are more rugged and. And they don't really, you know, relate to that type of game. I mean, you can tell a guy, you average 30, and if it wasn't cute, they don't. They don't respect it. So, you know, we always went back and forth. But then I get on the court because I'm still in shape a little bit to let them know I still got a little. Little action for them, and, you know, they're straightening up quick.
- [09:16]
Dan Le Batard
How often would you, if at all, say, do you know how close we were to beating Shaq and Kobe?
- [09:21]
Bonzi Wells
Oh, all the time. I mean, that's what. That's what I talk about. You know, that's when our. You moments. Like, you know, my competition was, you know, the way I made my name was competing against Kobe. You know, people just know me from, hey, he competed against Kobe, and I wore a headband. So that kind of was my staple to kind of get my name out there and just to kind of go through those wars and experience that type of stuff. That just kind of helps me when I talk to these other kids about, hey, you know, you can respect the guy, but you better make sure he respect you as well. And that's when we played against the Dukes in the North Carolinas. You know, I kind of leaned on things like that when they played against guys who had, you know, bigger names. You know, just talk to them. Just give them confidence that you can do this and you can make a name for yourself as well.
- [09:57]
Greg Cody
Bonzi, do you enjoy today's NBA?
- [10:00]
Bonzi Wells
To a certain extent. You know, you know, the skill level is amazing. These guys are really skilled. But, you know, guys with skilled in our errors, that was just kind of putting a box. You kind of played your roles, and I like that part of it because everybody shouldn't be dribbling, everybody shouldn't be shooting and all that stuff. But I understand the evolution of the game and I'm proud of it. It's just for my. My game, I feel like, you know, I was more of a three level player. More one and two layer more than shooting threes. So just watching guys shooting 50 and 63s a game just kind of takes the purity and the aggressiveness of the game away, in my opinion. But I do love the product, and these guys are very, very talented.
- [10:36]
Zaslow
Bonzi, you were known to get buckets back in your day. What I want to do is get a top five list of you of bucket getters from your era. No legend. So we can't go Mike, we can't go Kobe, we can't go guys like that. I need guys that are pure scorers.
- [10:49]
Bonzi Wells
Oh, man. Come on. Paul Pierce. You know, class of 98, Paul Pierce. What's. What's that about?
- [10:57]
Dan Le Batard
It's a top five celebration. What do you mean? We're celebrating top five bucket getters. What, you don't like the fanfare? You. You know, you, you.
- [11:03]
Bonzi Wells
I didn't know what that was. I thought y was gonging me or something.
- [11:08]
Dan Le Batard
We weren't gonging. You were selling.
- [11:11]
Zaslow
Let's relax, man.
- [11:12]
Bonzi Wells
We're gonna go. In my era, I hated guarding Rip Hamilton. I hated guard. I hated guarding him. Oh, man.
- [11:21]
Dan Le Batard
Who else guarding him? Because he never stopped running.
- [11:24]
Bonzi Wells
Like, he never. He. He was a bucket. Rashard Lewis was the guy that I really hated guard as well, at 6:10. Just really couldn't get to his shot. You really couldn't get to his shot out east. Let me think. It was some bucket getters out east. I mean, Stephen Jackson was a bucket getter out east. I mean, Jack was a bucket. Jack was a bucket out east.
- [11:47]
Dan Le Batard
Now you like the fanfare. Look at what it does.
- [11:49]
Bonzi Wells
Look, I like it. I played in the west my whole career, so I saw Kobe and those guys every single night. And I'm going to tell you a guy who was really, really good, but he was young. Was a young. Joe Johnson was a problem, and I saw it on him that he was going to be a problem.
- [12:05]
Dan Le Batard
Do you have a favorite Kobe story?
- [12:10]
Bonzi Wells
No. I mean, it's funny. I never. Back in that era, we wasn't cool with dudes like that. Like, if I didn't talk to Kobe on the court, we Would never talk. Like, I never, never, never talked to Kobe off the court. Never. Because we, back then, we wasn't friends with them dudes. We didn't work out with you in the summertime. We wasn't homies. I literally didn't like Kobe until. I never liked Kobe from a basketball perspective because I didn't know him off the court. And then when, you know, rest in peace. When he passed away, I just made me love him so much that I got an opportunity to be in his face. But I never knew him as. And I really wanted to because I thought he was interesting. I thought he. He. If he let. I wanted to be the guy that he let in because I heard so many stories about he wouldn't let nobody in. So I always prided myself on kind of being a good guy and I wanted to meet him, but I never got an opportunity. And I was never trying to be his friend during that time because he was my competition.
- [12:57]
Greg Cody
Who was annoying that you played against? He was always yapping the whole game.
- [13:00]
Bonzi Wells
Oh, shit. You already know who that is. It was a consensus. Gary Payton. We, you know, Seattle Gary Payton. Every night you can hear him from Seattle in Portland talking. I mean. I mean, he's the loudest voice. I mean, he's going to talk to you people in the crowd, if you know your mom and daddy, you're going to tell them that they raised a terrible son. I mean, you know, Gary Payton is. He's the one.
- [13:23]
Zaslow
Hey, Roy, buddy.
- [13:24]
Bonzi Wells
Yo.
- [13:24]
Zaslow
You know that energy shift when the game gets good and everybody all together in unison knows to stand up on their feet?
- [13:32]
Bonzi Wells
Oh, absolutely.
- [13:33]
Zaslow
Mike.
- [13:33]
Mike Ryan
Yeah.
- [13:33]
Zaslow
You've been at many big time sporting events. You know that moment quite well. That's what it's like when you take your first sip of Cuervo.
- [13:40]
Bonzi Wells
Oh, delicious.
- [13:41]
Zaslow
It's the signal that says, we're not checking the time anymore, pal. It's when small talk turns into stories. Cuervo, man. It's that high five. A random stranger effect. That's right. The game is popping. You're hugging people you never met before. That's the kind of energy that Cuervo brings. It's so smooth, so delicious. And that's the Cuervo effect. Keep it Cuervo.
- [14:06]
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- [15:43]
Bonzi Wells
See moneylion.com Don LeBatard what is the
- [15:46]
Dan Le Batard
worst part of the life?
- [15:48]
Zaslow
Stugats
- [15:53]
Mike Ryan
the worst part of the life of what?
- [15:54]
Bonzi Wells
This is the Dan Levatar show with the St. Gods.
- [16:03]
Dan Le Batard
Who do you regard as the most misunderstood of the jailblazers?
- [16:06]
Bonzi Wells
Oh, 100 Rasheed Wallace. 100. I mean, and that's why I wanted to. That's why I started a podcast with him years ago, because I was like, she man, you're just such a real good dude, man. People don't understand. But I know Rashid, he has a wall up and if you can get past that wall, he's jelly. But to get past that wall, it's like a, it's like an indestructible, you know, you can't get past it. But he's just such a good dude, man. He gives, he's loving, you know, He's a joke teller. He's a gadget guy. He's. He had. He knew about gadgets before that. He knew about iPhones in 1990, probably because he just always on top of things. Like, he's just a very smart dude. And, you know, just like, just with my friends. He met my friends in 1998 and he still talked to him to this day more than he talked to me. Like, come on now, who does stuff like that? Like, he's just a good dude. Like, you know, Rasheed Wallace is misunderstood. And I'm glad that he did this doc because he's a great storyteller. You're going to enjoy him talking.
- [17:02]
Greg Cody
Who was the guy on that team that was just. He was too nice to be included and on a team called Jailblazers, besides myself.
- [17:11]
Bonzi Wells
Yeah, you know, you know, I talk to my guy all the time. You know, my guy, Derek Anderson, you know, he kind of played the background of that team. You know, when they brought Derek in, you know, Derek was just a quiet dude. You know, he, you know, he didn't drink, he didn't smoke. You know, he, you know, his drug of choice was buying cars and clothes and being a pretty boy. So I think Derek Anderson, thankfully him and guys like him and Steve Smith didn't catch strays from that jailbreak jailblazing moniker. I'm sorry, Steve Smith as well, because, you know, he was with us and he was just great and stayed out of the way. So those two gentlemen cost. I'm glad they didn't catch any straight.
- [17:45]
Dan Le Batard
What do you regard as the biggest scandal of the time? Like, what do you. When you think of the Jailblazers, you think the top of the list of quote unquote scandals was what?
- [17:59]
Bonzi Wells
I mean, the biggest scandal was the Yellow Hummer. I mean, because they made it like she and Damon was transporting pounds of weed from Seattle to Portland when they really were just riding home after a long, tough game, two and a half hours, and enjoying just a joint. They had a piece and riding home and they never gave the driver a ticket. It was nothing. They never even got a ticket. And they made it. Like these guys did so much. And that narrative just kind of just blew the roof off everything. So I feel like that part was the biggest scandal of nothing.
- [18:30]
Dan Le Batard
The team has what reputation if it's simply not smoking weed?
- [18:36]
Bonzi Wells
Maybe an underachieving team that didn't win a championship. Because if you look around the league and any. In any league, everybody smokes. I mean, you know, everybody drinks, everybody does. Has some type of vice. It was just. We were so, I think we were so Good. And they were just looking for a reason to bring us down. And that's when I win in the championship. And us being community guys, us being family dudes, they was like, man, God, it got to be something. And when the weed stuff start coming around, like, oh, they smoke weed. And they're like, oh, okay, guys, come on, that's nothing. But I get it in terms of role models. You don't want the kids to kind of know that you may have smoked some weed or not. But other than that, we did nothing but support the Portland community. And we played our hardest every night. We just couldn't beat the Lakers.
- [19:19]
Dan Le Batard
If you had to take a guess, Bonzi, what percentage of the league has a game on their resume where they've played high?
- [19:26]
Bonzi Wells
I mean, in terms of playing high, I'm not saying guys play high. I'm just saying that, you know, it's like you can smoke and still be functional. You know what I mean? So it's being high interpretation, you know what I mean? I know guys that suffer from different type of anxieties that they don't want to go out and care. And that crowd kind of messes with them. So they might smoke something. It might just relax them so they can just stay between the lines and do their job. So a lot of this stuff is medicine for a lot of guys because you have a lot of stuff on your back. And you gentlemen know, once you start getting a little bit of a spotlight, you know, the pressure comes with this stuff. So if you guys got to relax before a big game and smoke a joint or whatever, I mean, I think the percentage is high. I think it's very high. I think 80 plus.
- [20:07]
Dan Le Batard
I should have asked the question that way. I'm assuming that there are a lot of guys in the league who smoke so regularly that they'll smoke before a game just to relax themselves that they're not actually. They're not altered in any meaningful way. It's a state of existence for them. And so if 45 minutes after smoking a joint, they're playing in a basketball game, I wouldn't think that's unusual.
- [20:30]
Bonzi Wells
Yeah, that part. So that's exactly what it is. And that's what got may not done. I know when we play guys may done that, and it's nothing. You don't look at them like, oh, you're a bad dude. I mean, you gotta think, in the 80s, guys smoking cigarettes in the locker room and drinking a beer and doing all this stuff and nobody batting an eye, and tobacco kills way more than marijuana ever, ever did on a whole nother level. So, I mean, we didn't look at it like that, like it was a bad thing. We looked at it like, hey, gotta relax so he can play.
- [20:55]
Dan Le Batard
Is there anything in the documentary that passes as a quote unquote scandal that you do a thousand times again, that it was received poorly by the public, whatever it was by the. But you're like, yeah, we don't care. That's what we were doing.
- [21:10]
Bonzi Wells
Now, you know, honestly, I think the doc, it was fair. They did a fair job. They did a great job. I think you gentlemen are going to enjoy it. It's about an hour and 10 minutes of just saying everything and then just the full circle story of, you know, the Blazers, in our opinion, we thinking they hated us, they want to forget our error. And when we filmed it and we was like, how can we get an ending? And the Blazers called us in perfect timing, like, hey, do a reunion. And that was our ending. And that just, it just, it just gives me the chills right now, the way they receive this, the way the fans received us, the way the love was. And I feel like we wasted 20 years of not talking for nothing when it could have been a simple conversation of let's build instead of breaking Bonzi.
- [21:52]
Mike Ryan
The documentary has a perfect title, but I'm curious. When you first heard the nickname Jailblazers written or spoken, what did you think of it?
- [22:02]
Bonzi Wells
I love, you know, Damon and them hated it, but I loved it because, you know, I'm from Indiana, I'm from the Midwest. I used Detroit Bad Boys. You know, they were. They were everybody's kind of park park guys with the park. I want to play tough like the Bad Boys. And, you know, everybody don't get a name, you know, and only a couple teams got really moniker names. So Jailblazers to us was like, yo, this is basketball stuff. It doesn't have nothing to do with the streets of life. We're going to scare people coming into these games because they think we tough and we're about that life and it. And that was a true thing. You know, you really had go on other teams that were a little bit cautious of us because they didn't know what we were going to do. So we use that as a badge of honor. We use it as an advantage. But in real life, culturally, you don't want that, you know, associated with your name, because that's one of the number one things you try to do is to stay out of jail and keep your family name out the Paper. But in sports wise, we thought it was cool. I know I did.
- [22:54]
Dan Le Batard
Who else would you put with yourself on the all dark alley team? Because you were Davis, you were. Well, I don't. Dale Davis. I don't know, I. Bonzi was feared. Bonzi was feared. So who else goes on the all dark alley team?
- [23:07]
Bonzi Wells
Oh, man, I gotta bring my boy straight jack, straight jacket, crazy Kenyon Martin. I gotta bring K. Martin. I gotta bring. That's my boy. I gotta bring that straight jacket crazy boy. I gotta bring Jermaine o' Neal because I gotta bring Big J O because I know he can't wait to throw that left hand hook. Let me think. I gotta bring Stephen Jackson because I know he gonna, he gonna come. He gonna fight to the death. Let me think. I gotta get a point guard out there that's gonna just get low in the cut. Let me think. It was gonna be. I'm gonna tell you, you know, Damon's tough, but Damon light skinned, he don't like to get, you know, he don't want to get hit. So I'm gonna take Chris Paul. I'm gonna take Chris Paul.
- [23:44]
Dan Le Batard
Whoa, Chris Paul is an all dark alley guy. That's an upset. Bonzie, of all the guys that you
- [23:50]
Bonzi Wells
were playing with at that age. I played with Chris Paul, man. I don't understand. Chris Paul is one of the toughest dudes out here. Did him and you know you get hit in fights. You know, I just love guys who's willing to fight and Chris Paul is willing to fight.
- [24:05]
Dan Le Batard
Bonzi, congratulations on finally getting the documentary made. I know a lot of people for many years were chasing after you guys to get Rasheed because he was the key piece to get Rasheed to talk.
- [24:15]
Zaslow
Speaking of sheed, Bonzi, how did he play in those big ass Air Force ones?
- [24:18]
Bonzi Wells
Oh, those custom. Them custom. Come on now, how did he play?
- [24:20]
Zaslow
They were like Timberlands. He was in the paint like Timberlands. Just trying to hold it down, man.
- [24:24]
Bonzi Wells
Listen, Rasheed practiced in Timberland, literally. So that was an upgrade from what he used to play in. Trust me, Rasheed is a different breed. That's why I knew he coming to the big screen was just so huge for Rasheed, so people can kind of see who he is. Cause he's a great guy. But I mean that's just Rasheed. He's the one of one.
- [24:39]
Dan Le Batard
Bonzi, thank you and congratulations on making the film made. I enjoy, I look forward to watching it.
- [24:46]
Bonzi Wells
All right, thank you gentlemen for having me. I really appreciate everything. Blessing.
- [24:50]
Dan Le Batard
Thank you, sir. It is interesting to revisit that time. It seems like a million years ago. The idea that a team would be controversial because they're smoking weed seems like. It seems like the 1900s.
- [25:07]
Zaslow
That's a win for you, by the way. You said that last week. We called you old. And it turns out that's what the college kids are saying too. The 1900s. So congrats, Dan. You're young again.
- [25:16]
Dan Le Batard
The number of people, the idea that he was coaching and that the players don't know who that is, that they don't know what he. How close he, Damon Stoudemire and Rasheed Wallace were to beating Shaquille O' Neal and Kobe Bryant.
- [25:34]
Greg Cody
They're up 17 in the second half of that game.
- [25:36]
Dan Le Batard
It was in the fourth quarter and it was before threes, right? I think they were up 17 at home. Not before threes were in the game. Yeah, threes were in the game, but it's not like they were shooting distinction.
- [25:46]
Zaslow
We're talking about the 1900s.
- [25:47]
Bonzi Wells
There's a line there.
- [25:48]
Dan Le Batard
Thank you. It's a good point by all of you. Do me a favor. Just look at how. What, what Magic Johnson was from 3. This is a different era, but just look at what Magic Johnson was from three the first season in the league. So you can see how much the sport has changed. A 17 point lead in the fourth quarter was not something that teams coughed up back then.
- [26:10]
Greg Cody
I mean, back then, if you made 10 threes in a game, that was like, holy shit, they had so many threes tonight. Like, you wouldn't make threes that many threes in a game.
- [26:20]
Zaslow
Arvidus Sabonis was like one of the sneaky, fun players on that team. Would give Shaq some trouble because he was highly skilled and a guy that didn't really enter the NBA at his peak of his talents. But he would have been incredible had he played his entire career in the NBA.
- [26:35]
Greg Cody
Remember Rasheed threw the towel at Sabonis face. He didn't like him.
- [26:39]
Dan Le Batard
Sabonis as a passer and his son plays a similar game, but is less thick. Is that he's got a big eye head.
- [26:50]
Bonzi Wells
Hairy too.
- [26:51]
Zaslow
That dude's a violent sneezer.
- [26:53]
Dan Le Batard
Arvitis too, though. The dad as well.
- [26:55]
Zaslow
No, that's what I'm talking about. Yeah, big old head.
- [27:01]
Dan Le Batard
You didn't know Sabonis's dad's name?
- [27:04]
Zaslow
No, no, I knew it. I knew it. As Arvidus, a middle school down.
- [27:08]
Bonzi Wells
Kendall.
- [27:09]
Dan Le Batard
Why don't you say Humichura again?
- [27:11]
Zaslow
Uchimara, dude. Ruri Uchimara it wasn't that bad. Deflection. It's a play on for me.
- [27:22]
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- [28:22]
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- [28:52]
Bonzi Wells
For details, Don LeBatard I want to
- [28:54]
Mike Ryan
address Tony and all men who would wear that shirt in public.
- [28:58]
Zaslow
Stugats don't do it.
- [29:01]
Bonzi Wells
This is the Dan lebatar Show with the St.
- [29:10]
Dan Le Batard
Greg Cody. Nobody has you mentioned earlier in the show that until you've talked about Reuben Bain, nobody has really spoken about Reuben Bane. As it relates, Rory McIlroy, you have not gotten to speak about the Masters. You enjoy your golf. We were asking yesterday whether Rory choked.
- [29:31]
Mike Ryan
Mm. Well, he did and then he didn't. He was. He had something in his throat. He was choking, but he gave himself the Heimlich. It was the most amazing thing to see.
- [29:42]
Greg Cody
Okay, so that's the key right there, though. You said he was choking.
- [29:45]
Mike Ryan
Yes.
- [29:45]
Greg Cody
That doesn't mean that he choked. You have to complete the act of choking for it to be he choked
- [29:50]
Mike Ryan
he did not choke. He went from six shot lead to two shots down and he was gagging. He was choking right then.
- [29:58]
Dan Le Batard
But that is choking.
- [30:00]
Mike Ryan
He was choking, but he didn't end up choking. He unchoked himself.
- [30:04]
Greg Cody
That's right.
- [30:05]
Mike Ryan
Right. And. And that's the best way to win because he wound up. You doubted me. You thought I was choking. Who's lifting the cup, putting on the ugly green jacket? Me.
- [30:16]
Dan Le Batard
That can only happen if your championship is decided over four days. Right. There is not. We will not have this conversation about a player choking in the third quarter and then not in the fourth.
- [30:26]
1-800-Flowers Advertiser
Well, in like basketball, like in game four, if you're bad, that's technically, you know.
- [30:31]
Greg Cody
Yeah, the Panthers were choking games 4, 5 and 6, but they did not actually choke because they won the series.
- [30:42]
Mike Ryan
You remember the super bowl where Atlanta had a huge lead and they blew it? Right. Okay. They choked, period.
- [30:50]
Zaslow
That's correct.
- [30:50]
Mike Ryan
They did choke.
- [30:51]
Zaslow
I remember that.
- [30:52]
Mike Ryan
But. But if they come back in the fourth quarter and when, I don't care if it's by one point or with luck, they no longer choked.
- [31:01]
Dan Le Batard
I don't believe that this is a thing, the unchoking of a choke. I believe you either choke or you do not. And this is. But this is a rare instance. You're not wrong when you mentioned some of the examples you guys are mentioning. But I do think that you have to have the weirdness of a four day back to back affair. An individual sport. All the things that you find in the Masters and the storyline of. You do understand that in that sport there are very few remaining chokers with that reputation like we have been at the moment. James Harden is the guy roaming the earth that we most hit with this designation. There aren't that many anymore. Rory, in this sport, even as the defending Masters champion is somebody who has that reputation. It's not something we would normally do to the guy who just won the tournament the year before to say, there it is, I see it again. The things that I've always suspected of him, they're there again. And then he fixes it because it's not actually choking, it's just somebody playing poorly at golf.
- [32:11]
Bonzi Wells
Right.
- [32:12]
Mike Ryan
But he had the biggest 36 hole lead in the history of the Masters. A tournament that, with great tradition and lore. And so that's something, man, you're going to blow the biggest halftime lead ever in the best tournament. That's choking. And then through four holes he lost that lead quick. And by halftime of the fourth round, he's down by two strokes. And his comeback. He needed help. He needed other golfers bogeying all over the place. It was crazy. But he went from being a notorious choker in that tournament, in that tournament to a miraculous finish that was feel good. It was the best thing that could happen to golf. And him and his family and his parents. Everybody's hugging each other. What a happy story. It was a great story for golf. Okay. It was great. Could not have worked out any better. He beat a hell of a leaderboard. So on and so forth, so on and so forth. That's exactly right.
- [33:14]
Bonzi Wells
Excuse me.
- [33:14]
Mike Ryan
I wasn't distracted by that noise at all. That's on me.
- [33:19]
Dan Le Batard
I am a bad messenger on this because of how often I argue with my own inner monologue. But I'm just telling you on air, from lessons I've learned on where it is I have failed here, that him as your inner monologue will work better if we manage to somehow ignore it instead of agree with our inner monologue. It goes without saying that your inner monologue is often something that you agree with.
- [33:44]
Mike Ryan
That's a good point. Yeah.
- [33:45]
Dan Le Batard
I've learned it the hard way because I keep arguing with the inner monologue. But in my case, it's because he acts as himself in the inner monologue and then just says things in my inner monologue voice to annoy me. And I get mad at him for not being Daniel Day Lewis as my inner monologue.
- [34:00]
Mike Ryan
Yeah, I get that.
- [34:01]
Dan Le Batard
And he just stays as Mike Ryan, executive producer, saying secret things that make me feel vulnerable. That's not what he's doing to you in your case. He's just celebrating the you in it.
- [34:11]
Mike Ryan
Oh, okay.
- [34:12]
Bonzi Wells
Look at that jerk.
- [34:17]
Mike Ryan
Okay, I get it. No, it's good having that explained to me because I needed it.
- [34:23]
Dan Le Batard
The amount of disagreement that it feels like Zaz and Mike Ryan have about WrestleMania. What are your feelings, Greg? I've never asked you this question before. What are your feelings about professional wrestling? Because as much as Zsaz cares about the Panthers and as much as he cares about the Heat, there is no place that I see him be more of a child, the child that he was probably at 12 years old, than he is with professional wrestling. And when Mike Ryan dares to criticize what it is that's happening with WrestleMania, Zaslow is here to be what Amin Elhassan is to basketball. You shut up about my sport. My sport is fine just the way that it is.
- [35:08]
Mike Ryan
Yeah, get them to argue I'm weird about professional wrestling because I don't get it. I don't I sort of make fun of grown men and women who.
- [35:18]
Bonzi Wells
What?
- [35:18]
Mike Ryan
Do you think it's real? I mean, nobody thinks it's real. Party. It does.
- [35:23]
Bonzi Wells
Maybe not a place to work through, Greg.
- [35:26]
1-800-Flowers Advertiser
Nobody thinks it's real. That is such a dumb argument that people make.
- [35:29]
Mike Ryan
Okay, so you're pretending then.
- [35:32]
Bonzi Wells
We are not surprising anyone with our opinion.
- [35:34]
Greg Cody
No, no one's pretending anything. You know when you watch a movie that it's not real, right? Are you pretending that the movie's real?
- [35:42]
Mike Ryan
If it's a movie, that's a documentary, where does that fit?
- [35:46]
Greg Cody
That's real. But a movie, a script. Something has a script and actors, right? You're not pretending that it's real. You're just watching for enjoyment.
- [35:54]
Mike Ryan
Yeah, because that's entertainment.
- [35:56]
Greg Cody
Yeah, that's right.
- [35:57]
Mike Ryan
Okay. I don't associate pretend with sports.
- [36:00]
1-800-Flowers Advertiser
I like like Broadway.
- [36:02]
Mike Ryan
I like my sports real well.
- [36:04]
Greg Cody
You're choosing to call pro wrestling a sport. I don't think you have to do that. You just call it entertainment.
- [36:08]
Uber Eats Advertiser
Okay.
- [36:08]
Mike Ryan
I mean, it's. It's. It's covered by sports.
- [36:12]
Bonzi Wells
It was on espn.
- [36:13]
Mike Ryan
There you go.
- [36:14]
Greg Cody
All right. But you understand why.
- [36:16]
Mike Ryan
Sorry. I'm sorry, but the voice that I just said internally is totally accurate. It was on espn.
- [36:24]
Bonzi Wells
And don't let Dan explain it to you. I mean, come on. He doesn't get this more than anybody.
- [36:30]
Mike Ryan
It's just weird to me that. That it's you. It's pre arranged. Like if. If was it prearranged Sunday that Rory appeared to be losing and then came back to win? Were they making bogey the other guys making.
- [36:42]
Dan Le Batard
It's how you would pre arrange it if you were trying to draw it up.
- [36:45]
Mike Ryan
Exactly.
- [36:46]
Zaslow
Can we not do this?
- [36:47]
Greg Cody
Some people think it is pre arranged.
- [36:49]
1-800-Flowers Advertiser
The worst argument against wrestling.
- [36:51]
Zaslow
We're not here to do this.
- [36:52]
Dan Le Batard
Okay.
- [36:52]
Mike Ryan
I was asked what I thought of Professor.
- [36:54]
Dan Le Batard
He was asked.
- [36:55]
Mike Ryan
I don't get it.
- [36:55]
Bonzi Wells
That's all.
- [36:56]
Zaslow
This ground was covered by John Sossel. We can move on John Saul to WrestleMania week. And I'm not sure Zaz and I disagree so much with it. This is a different company running this now. I also think it's a bad faith argument to say, like, well, they're leaning on celebrities too much. As if Vince McMahon didn't love his big WrestleMania celebrity. Donald Trump, hair versus hair. Mike Tyson being at the center.
- [37:19]
Greg Cody
You're right about that event. You're right about that. WrestleMania was born from celebrity Cyndi Lauper.
- [37:25]
Zaslow
Like, there's so many examples. But I think the frustration with wrestling fans in this incarnation that has a lot more celebrities to it and celebrities getting directly involved in the matches, where usually they're window dressing on stage.
- [37:40]
Greg Cody
I don't need it.
- [37:41]
Zaslow
Is that Randy Orton, Cody Rhodes, that doesn't really need Pat McAfee injected into it. That's actually the rare, fresh matchup that fans have been clamoring for. And it just seems as though WWE fans are at a real inflection point with the product right now, as TKO kind of puts their fingerprint on what this event means. Pricing has been a hot topic. That has seemed to come back and bite. TKO going back to Las Vegas as opposed to announcing New Orleans and then ripping it away, that has seemed to have blown up. And Even this Pat McAfee decision and Jelly Roll, all this stuff seems to immediately be falling on the wrong side.
- [38:22]
Greg Cody
You know, about Lil Yachty, I actually
- [38:23]
Zaslow
like what Lil Yachty's doing.
- [38:25]
Greg Cody
I think I don't need him on my tv.
- [38:26]
Zaslow
I think Lil Yachty, he's suffering from critical mass here. But I'm curious because we're still gonna watch it, but we're Lifetime fans. I'm wondering if this does anything with a casual observer watching Pat Mackie.
- [38:37]
Dan Le Batard
Well, what are you guys doing here with. You did this with the Masters the other day, and you're going to have to get used to the idea that these things are going to change and your delicate sensibilities are gonna have to grow along with whatever these changes are.
- [38:53]
Zaslow
No, I reject that. I don't have to. I don't. I'm a lifelong wrestling fan.
- [38:58]
Greg Cody
There was nothing wrong with the way they were doing it previously.
- [39:00]
Zaslow
In my entire life, it's been doing one thing. And by the way, when TKO first came over and they started doing the wrestling thing, it was great.
- [39:08]
Greg Cody
It was pretty great.
- [39:09]
Zaslow
Yeah, we were pretty fatigued with Vince McMahon. I don't have to actually accept this. I'm a wrestling fan, and wrestling fans are very passionate about the product and use their voice as.
- [39:18]
Mike Ryan
I totally agree with what Mike just said. You don't have to accept it and like it just because it's foisted on you. By the way, media is changing, and Jason Kelsey as a caddie for the Par three tournament was a perfect example that went over like a lead balloon with listeners and fans of golf. And I get that.
- [39:39]
Dan Le Batard
My point is that these are the people in charge now of sports. It's this cabal of people that are going to come and take whatever are your religious artifacts, and they're going to change.
- [39:52]
Greg Cody
For now, you're right for now.
- [39:53]
Zaslow
But it's not working out if you. I mean, ESPN is talking plenty to reporters. Like, they seem to have immediate regret. You think they want to have Cody Rhodes on every show today, and that's one of the biggest stars. They don't like having to have the Miz at the masters. ESPN's not used to this.
- [40:10]
Dan Le Batard
You say it's not working out because there is public criticism. But the way that it works out is they've got a giant streaming product and they've gotten their streaming money and they're gonna put it everywhere.
- [40:21]
Greg Cody
And they're gonn announce, by the way, after WrestleMania. That's the largest gate in the history of pro.
- [40:25]
Zaslow
Yeah, they always do that. Even though this. Fewer people are attending this one and they're actively hawking discounts right now. No, I think it'll be done in a couple of years. And it will be said that this WWWE deal that ESPN signed was a disaster. That they don't even get the full library. It's just. Please. It's not a culture fit. They just. TKO is very good. Nikon is very good at getting highest bidder stuff. But this is what we were talking about with the league rights. You're going to reach a critical mass on all this stuff where the price is inevitably going to come down.
- [40:59]
Greg Cody
The place where Mike and I do disagree is Mike will be a little bit more critical when it comes to stuff like this. Me, I'll go into this weekend. I'm going to love it no matter what because I get free tickets.