Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Episode: Local Hour: Andrew Hawkins on De'Vandre Campbell Quitting
Release Date: December 13, 2024

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Introduction

In this episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz, hosts Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, David Sampson, and former NFL player Andrew Hawkins delve into the controversial departure of De'Vandre Campbell, a linebacker for the San Francisco 49ers. The discussion centers around Campbell's decision to refuse participation in a crucial game, the ramifications for the team, and the broader implications for his career and team dynamics.

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Background on De'Vandre Campbell's Incident

De'Vandre Campbell, a seasoned linebacker for the 49ers, was thrust into the spotlight after his unexpected decision to refuse entering a game during the third quarter. At the time, Campbell was a backup and occasional starter, boasting impressive statistics with 12 starts in the first 13 games and ranking second on the team in tackles.

During a critical moment in the game, Campbell was called upon by Coach Kyle Shanahan to enter the fray. However, Campbell declined, prompting immediate concern and backlash:

• George Kittle, a key teammate, remarked, “The locker room at some point,” highlighting the suddenness and impact of Campbell's decision (02:03).
• Andrew Hawkins relayed that Coach Shanahan was furious, stating, “Oh, he's pissed. He's pissed. He is” (02:21).

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Hosts' Perspectives

David Sampson's Critique

David Sampson expressed strong disapproval of Campbell's actions, emphasizing the lack of professionalism and commitment expected from players:

• “I would release him on the spot. I don't care if he's on waivers and goes to a playoff team.” (04:27)
• He criticized Campbell’s decision as detrimental to team morale and effectiveness.

Andrew Hawkins' Attempt at Understanding

Andrew Hawkins approached the situation from a more empathetic standpoint, acknowledging the human element behind such a decision:

• “I'm not saying he's right. I'm just saying let's take a moment to try to understand this situation.” (04:52)
• Hawkins shared his own experiences, relating moments where he contemplated quitting, though he never acted on those thoughts.

Stugotz and Sue Gods' Reactions

Stugotz and Sue Gods contributed to the debate with varying degrees of skepticism and frustration:

• Stugotz questioned Hawkins' attempts to empathize, hinting at the complexity of the situation (04:59).
• Sue Gods took a hard stance, stating, “I would release him on the spot. I don't care if he's on waivers and goes to a playoff team. I don't want him in that uniform again. It's a disgrace.” (04:36)

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Teammates' Reactions

Trevarius Ward's Disapproval

Trevarius Ward, another teammate, criticized Campbell's actions, suggesting a lack of professionalism and predicting defensive consequences for Campbell:

• “I feel like there was some that he did definitely hurt the team because, you know, D went down and we needed a linebacker.” (06:26)
• Ward hinted at the likelihood of Campbell being cut from the team, emphasizing the negative impact on team cohesion.

George Kittle's Support for Team Standards

George Kittle maintained that every player on the roster is expected to be committed and willing to play when called upon:

• “Look, if you're on the roster, you're expecting your suit up, expect to play.” (07:26)
• Kittle underscored the importance of unity and the collective effort required to win games.

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Broader Implications for the 49ers

The hosts discussed how Campbell's departure reflects broader issues within the 49ers organization:

• Andrew Hawkins pointed out that the incident could symbolize deeper problems, such as aging superstars and inconsistent team performance: “I think this is a microcosm of what the state of the 49ers is.” (10:04)
• David Sampson raised concerns about the team's future window of competitiveness, considering their recent struggles and Campbell's departure: “It does kind of feel like, is this the end for this?” (10:02)

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Career Implications for De'Vandre Campbell

The discussion also focused on the potential long-term effects of Campbell's actions on his NFL career:

• Mike Ryan questioned whether Campbell would find opportunities with other teams, likening his decision to other notable incidents where players left their teams mid-game: “This is the worst thing you can do in football, is choose not to play when your teammates need you.” (18:00)
• Andrew Hawkins acknowledged the possibility that Campbell's reputation could severely hinder his prospects: “I don't think he's going to want to come back from this.” (19:09)
• David Sampson highlighted the stigma attached to Campbell's decision, suggesting it might overshadow his on-field contributions: “He is known now more for quitting than he is for playing.” (18:35)

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Conclusion

The episode provided a comprehensive analysis of De'Vandre Campbell's unexpected decision to quit during a game, exploring its immediate impact on the San Francisco 49ers and the potential long-term repercussions for his NFL career. While hosts like David Sampson expressed unequivocal condemnation, others like Andrew Hawkins sought to understand the underlying human factors influencing Campbell's choice. The conversation underscored the delicate balance between individual agency and team commitment in professional sports, leaving listeners to ponder the future of both Campbell and the beleaguered 49ers organization.

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Notable Quotes:

• David Sampson: “I would release him on the spot. I don't care if he's on waivers and goes to a playoff team.” (04:27)
• Andrew Hawkins: “I'm not saying he's right. I'm just saying let's take a moment to try to understand this situation.” (04:52)
• Trevarius Ward: “I feel like there was some that he did definitely hurt the team because, you know, D went down and we needed a linebacker.” (06:26)
• George Kittle: “Look, if you're on the roster, you're expecting your suit up, expect to play.” (07:26)
• Mike Ryan: “This is the worst thing you can do in football, is choose not to play when your teammates need you.” (18:00)
• Andrew Hawkins: “I don't think he's going to want to come back from this.” (19:09)
• David Sampson: “He is known now more for quitting than he is for playing.” (18:35)

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This summary encapsulates the critical discussions and viewpoints presented in the episode, providing a clear and comprehensive overview for listeners seeking insight into the controversy surrounding De'Vandre Campbell's departure from the San Francisco 49ers.

Transcript

[Dan Le Batard]

You're listening to Giraffe Kings Network.

[Stugotz]

Craven the hunter who uses all the methods of the animals.

[Dan Le Batard]

Now witness the making of a new Marvel villain.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Once you're on his list, there's only one way off.

[David Sampson]

Aaron Taylor Johnson is Craven the Hunter. Rated R under 17, 90 minute without parent. Being a marketer is no sweat. You just have to manage dozens of channels, launch hundreds of campaigns, score thousands of leads. Okay, fine. It's a lot of sweat unless you have HubSpot's AI powered marketing tools to help you do all that and more. Get [e-mail] marketers.

[Andrew Hawkins]

This is the Dan Levator show with the Stuttgarts podcast.

[David Sampson]

Damn, I missed Thursday Night Football. When both teams have a week's worth of rest. That's what happens occasionally on Thursday Night Football and an otherwise really boring game. We did get a national talking point out of the game, and we have an interesting cast of characters to walk you through that. Dan's a little late, so pinch hitting for him is Dan. Andrew Hawkins, a former NFL player, former player rep, and a former team president, and David Sampson. These ingredients have never been together before. And we get to talk about a player quitting on his team. Let's go.

[Stugotz]

Did you say Dan is pinch hitting for Dan?

[David Sampson]

I'm sorry. Sue Gods.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yeah.

[David Sampson]

Working the lineup. Yeah, sorry. Late, late.

[Stugotz]

Stretch.

[David Sampson]

So, Sue Gods, you're not a former player, you're not a former team president, but you are a hot take artist that found out about this story five minutes ago. So I am going to be very curious of your take. However, for the audience that doesn't know, Devantre Campbell, a backup, occasional starter linebacker for the San Francisco 49ers, was called upon to enter the game, refused to enter the game. And we have sound from all the key players involved. First, let me walk you through this. Kyle Shanahan was asked about what happened after the game. Here's the sound. What happened with devondre Campbell? He didn't play and he went into.

[George Kittle]

The locker room at some point.

[Stugotz]

Yeah.

[David Sampson]

He said he didn't want to play today. Play today?

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yep.

[David Sampson]

The coaching staff.

[Andrew Hawkins]

He did. When I asked him why he didn't.

[David Sampson]

Want to go in.

[Andrew Hawkins]

So during the game or before? No, that was in the third quarter.

[David Sampson]

Hawk, you were on the Cleveland Browns with Kyle Shanahan, right?

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yeah. Yeah, I was there.

[David Sampson]

How do you think this flies with coach Kyle?

[Andrew Hawkins]

Oh, he's pissed. He's pissed. He is.

[Sue Gods]

Team had just lost, too.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I mean, they took an L. Look, I'd be lying if I said I Never thought about leaving mid game.

[Stugotz]

Really?

[Andrew Hawkins]

I mean, we had some bad losses in my day, huh? You know, and it gets. What do you say? Quit?

[Sue Gods]

You mean quit your career quit?

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yeah, like, maybe this is the minute. Maybe this is the minute I'm done. Right? Right here.

[Sue Gods]

Like, you never left in the third.

[Andrew Hawkins]

But you can fantasize about it. You've never fantasized about quitting a job? Come on, nobody in here all the time fantasize about quitting their job in the middle of a workday.

[Sue Gods]

Are you joking?

[Stugotz]

I mean, during the show, after the show, at night.

[Andrew Hawkins]

You know what I'm saying? I know. It's like, man, I can't believe you've done that. We've all had this fantasy before of just being like, you know what? To hell with this, bro. I'm going home. You know what I'm saying? Do you always act on it? No.

[Stugotz]

Right.

[Sue Gods]

How about ever? Did you ever act on it?

[Andrew Hawkins]

I've never acted on it, no.

[David Sampson]

Were these fleeting thoughts or legitimate things that you were contemplating on the sideline before they called you in?

[Stugotz]

Wait, Hawk, Mike, I imagine he's down 31 to 7 in the third quarter and he's like, what am I doing?

[Mike Ryan]

This sport hurts, man.

[Andrew Hawkins]

It's more dangerous to go in than for me to walk off the field. Look, now, look, I have told a coach I'm not going in before.

[David Sampson]

Was it against the Steelers?

[Andrew Hawkins]

It was not against the Steelers. I wish it would have been against the Steelers.

[David Sampson]

Those teams would rape you up physically, I imagine, when you're 0 and 16. And you're also going to get a.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Lot better situation, health wise, right?

[Mike Ryan]

Now.

[Stugotz]

Wait, so you told the coach?

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yeah, I told a coach I would not do that.

[Stugotz]

Really?

[Andrew Hawkins]

Now, I don't know what the situation is with Campbell. Right. And I know it looks terrible and it is terrible. If I was his teammate, I would also be pissed. Like, you think we wanted to go in, bro?

[Sue Gods]

Well, wait. The situation, just to be clear, is that he had started 12 of the first 13 games. He was second on the team in tackles, okay? But then Greenlaw, who he had replaced because he had an Achilles injury, Greenlaw got healthy, gets his starting job back, and then Campbell's back on the bench. But then Greenlaw said, oh, I got a little thing, I got a thing. And then the coach said, all right, we're going back to you. And Campbell said, ah, you didn't want me an hour ago. Forget it. And he walked off.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Are we really going to act like we don't understand that A little bit. A little bit of that logic.

[Sue Gods]

I'd release him on the spot. I would have gone to the locker room and released him on the spot. I don't care if he's on waivers and goes to a playoff team. I don't want him in that uniform again. It's a disgrace.

[Stugotz]

But, David, wait a second. Let's hear Hawk out, because he's trying. There's a human element. There's.

[Andrew Hawkins]

There's a human element.

[Stugotz]

Yes. The guys upstairs.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I'm not saying he's right. I'm just saying let's take moment to try to understand this situation. Nope. All right. You have a girl.

[Stugotz]

No moments.

[Andrew Hawkins]

You know, a guy. A guy did your girl wrong. Right at. In her previous relationship. And you step. You come in and save the day, and you've been the a. Oh, my gosh. You've been the best boyfriend that anybody.

[Sue Gods]

Could know where this is going, right?

[Stugotz]

Yep.

[Andrew Hawkins]

All of a sudden, ex boyfriend comes back around, said, I've been working on myself. I went to therapy. You know, I'm a different person now. And she says, you know what? He was my first love. I'm going to give him a chance. It's wrong. Within the first week, he's back to his old tricks. And she comes crawling back to you, David, and she says, you know what? I need you. I'm going through a tough time. Things didn't go the way we planned. And you know what I realize now? You're the one I want. You're going back in that game.

[Sue Gods]

If I'm extra lonely, oh, my God. And I'm on a cold streak, you can.

[Andrew Hawkins]

That sounds like a you problem, David.

[Tony]

Is this girl paying me $10.7 million for the year or no?

[Andrew Hawkins]

That's a good point.

[David Sampson]

It's a lot of money.

[Andrew Hawkins]

It's a good question. I don't know. It depends on.

[Tony]

She's not.

[David Sampson]

It's a lot of money. And to David Sampson's point of I'll cut him on the spot, that is a lot of money.

[Stugotz]

Guy A is unreliable over here. Guy A is the guy that she wants, but he's unreliable. And guy B is tired of being there when guy A becomes unreliable again.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Hate the be your backup plan.

[David Sampson]

Well, Hawk mentioned how this might go over in the locker room with the teammates. Let's hear from his teammates. First, Trevarius Ward had something to say.

[Trevarius Ward]

I mean, he a professional. He been playing for a long time. I mean, if he didn't want to play, he shouldn't have dressed out, you know, he could have told him that before the game. So I feel like there was some that he did definitely hurt the team because, you know, D went down and we needed a linebacker, you know, and I think FL was banged up too. So for him to do that, that's some, that's some sucker stuff to me. In my opinion, like, it's probably gonna get cut soon. So it is what it is with that.

[Tony]

And the thing about Javarius Ward is he had a daughter that passed away at 1 years old, played a couple weeks later. So you're looking at a guy who has gone through some of the worst things imaginable and then yet went out and did his job and was there with his teammates day in and day out. So you're, he's looking and being like, bro, what are we doing?

[David Sampson]

He's also playing a position which Fred Warner is excelling at. His position with a fractured ankle, has played several games in a RO with that fractured ankle. Your take on what Ward had to say before we get to another team leader in George Kittle.

[George Kittle]

I didn't really hear anything about it until I got in the locker room. So it's all brand new information to me. Look, if you're on the roster, you're expecting your suit up, expect to play. I think anyone in this building got asked to go in. I would say 100% of everybody would die to get on that football field. And so people go through or going through random things off the field. I can't speak on that. You know, whatever his decision was, it wasn't for this organization, it wasn't for this team. And that's on him.

[Mike Ryan]

So.

[George Kittle]

Not very happy about it. I would have something to say I wish I would have heard about on the field, but I didn't. Now, is that the reason we lost? Absolutely not. But you don't really. It's hard to win football games when someone doesn't want to play football.

[Stugotz]

So now, Hawk, you have, you know, the Niners.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yeah.

[Stugotz]

You have one of their best players, George Kittle. You have one of the best tight ends, one of the leaders of that team, calling that guy out like. And how do you feel about that? Because that's what would happen to you if you had quit one of those games.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yeah, I wouldn't care. But look, here's the thing. I completely agree with everything every player has said. I completely agree with what you guys are saying. I think this is one of those moments in sports and football where everybody is going to be on one side because it's clearly the right side to his point. It's hard to win football games when guys don't want to play football. Devil's advocate.

[Stugotz]

Yes.

[Andrew Hawkins]

He's actually doing the 49ers a favor. Really? Because this is the conversation versus how terrible they've been playing. So they should be thanking him for giving them this out.

[Stugotz]

I love it at the end of.

[Andrew Hawkins]

A game because that was a horrible football game.

[Stugotz]

Why is that a bad take? Because he's right, Kyle. We're not talking about Kyle Shanahan today. We're not talking about Brock Purdy and how bad he was yesterday.

[Sue Gods]

I bought the over under to 17, so I have no idea why anyone's upset at all. I did a Stugotts. The 126 game was a barn burner. Loved every minute of having six field goals.

[David Sampson]

So does. Does this deflect from a loss that pretty much ends San Francisco season, or does it compound some of the larger issues? Because if you. If you're a Niners fan and you're watching that game, you're wondering about the blueprint, and then you have a productive player quitting on you, a player that you're paying a lot of money to quitting on you, too. It does kind of feel like, is this the end for this? Not necessarily regime, because Kyle's in high demand, but their window certainly feels like it might have closed and slammed shut.

[Stugotz]

It already did. Wow.

[Tony]

Yeah, I told you that five weeks ago, that the 49ers, when it was closed on Tony's top five, I saw from.

[David Sampson]

And that was even before the McCaffrey injury.

[Stugotz]

I wrote it down.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yeah, I do think it's a microcosm of, like, what's going on in the 49ers. I think they have aging superstars and you just can't run that kind of positionless offense and style when guys are hurt and routinely injured and not playing well. I mean, Debo's asking for the ball and he's dropping what seems to be a touchdown pass at moments like, yeah, this is a microcosm of what the state of the 49ers is. And again, I know we're all joking here, but that is bullshit to quit a game. Like, there is an accountability that happens with the football team to. You hear it in Kittle's voice and you expect the guy next to you to be as locked in as you are. We're going to do everything we can to get a win. We're going to come in here and under any circumstance, even if it's the littlest Contribution, we're going to do whatever is needed. And clearly that wasn't the case. Now, again, he might be going through something mentally. We've seen moments where guys have left mid game. You know, this is probably closer to the AB situation than the rest in peace Vontae Davis situation because it just felt like mentally Vontae Davis just wasn't. Wasn't in that moment, end of his career, you know, it was like, this is too much. I've moved cities this many times where ABS was very similar to this. He wanted the football. They weren't giving it to him. They told him to go in at the end. He was like, no, you didn't give me the ball, I'm not going. And this feels more like that. And it's. You don't expect it from a 31 year old linebacker who's been in this league a long time.

[Sue Gods]

Thankfully kept his shirt on.

[Stugotz]

Yeah.

[Sue Gods]

So that was. I would view that as a positive.

[Andrew Hawkins]

No, I wouldn't say that because then we didn't know. We didn't find out till after. I wish he would have made it a little more interesting.

[Dan Le Batard]

It was so disgusting. I. We all would have quit. I would have quit just to be outside of the weather.

[Mike Ryan]

In the rain.

[Stugotz]

Yes.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Right.

[Stugotz]

Yes.

[Dan Le Batard]

I mean, please. You guys all would have walked. You would have stayed out there.

[David Sampson]

I've had insight from previous union reps before Hawk, but I haven't really had the opportunity to talk to you about these short week Thursday night football games because it's always a national talking point anytime you have a really bad game. And last night was a really bad game. Watch out for the Rams though.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Sneaky.

[Stugotz]

Yeah.

[David Sampson]

I mean, they just have the jets.

[Stugotz]

Cards keep an eye on. You're right.

[David Sampson]

They can be awesome playoffs.

[Stugotz]

I'm with you.

[Andrew Hawkins]

They are sneaky.

[David Sampson]

Yeah. But you were you in. I imagine you were representing your team when it came to these discussions on the short week Thursday night football games, that was slop. Now there is slop occasionally on Sundays. Lord knows the AFC south was putting up about a decade's worth of divisional slop. But I mean, you can't ignore they're paying a lot of money. This is a feature game. It does have some stakes attached to it. And it was just garbage.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yeah, it was garbage. And I mean, there's garbage games on Sundays as well. Now look, my take. When I was in the league on Thursday Night Football, I hated them. I mean, they were the bane of my existence. The two things I hated most in the NFL were Thursday Night Football. Games and joint training camp practices. Because joint training camp practices are a sneaky way for teams to add, like, three preseason games. Because you go harder in those joint practices than you do in the games. Because you're there and you're like, okay, I'm practicing against the Bills. I might be a free agent next year or this year. So you're, like, literally competing for two coaching staffs to show what you have on, like a. Oh, this is my chance. And guys go way too hard, and it's a. And then you play that team because.

[Stugotz]

They'Re looking for a job.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Oh, I hate it. I think it is the. Again, the sneakiest way to add four preseason football games.

[Sue Gods]

What about the day after the Thursday game? It may have been a bad game, but now they get 10 days off.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yeah, I mean, that's about the glass half full.

[Sue Gods]

We're sitting here.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I didn't mind.

[Sue Gods]

Negative.

[Andrew Hawkins]

That's the part I didn't mind. But it is hard to get up for a Thursday. Now, here's the other part. For players, like, everything feels like the worst thing in the world until you're in it. Like, as an old person in the league, when the Thursday night football games were coming around, I was like, this is crazy. This is terrible. But then, over time, the young guys didn't care. Cause it was just. It's just life to them.

[David Sampson]

Yeah, but does your body. Does your body physically feel different getting up for a Thursday game? I would just always assume, like, maybe they're a little bit more sore. How do they get up and muster the same kind of effort?

[Andrew Hawkins]

No, not when you're young, man. The old guys feel it. The young guys. I mean, when I was 23, 24, I could. I didn't even warm up, bro. I just walked out to practice.

[Sue Gods]

That's my kind of guy.

[Andrew Hawkins]

And I'm like, you're putting on been gay before practice. How old are you, dude? And then by the time I was 30, I'm. Hydro tub.

[Stugotz]

You're bathing in Ben Gay.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Massage pack, heat pack, ice pack, 17 Advil. Thinking about meditation moments. Torso tore doll, green tea, Greenies. I would. No, this is no bullshit. I would leave our position meeting. My receiver coach let me out of my position meeting 20 minutes earlier just so I could go through my routine to be ready for practice. That's how old I get.

[Tony]

Let's not forget a week ago, though, there was 65 points scored right. On Thursday night between the Packers.

[David Sampson]

Let's not forget, a week ago, they had seven days rest.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Sure.

[Tony]

Okay, understood. But still, like, there's been good Thursday games. The issue too this week was the tsunami and the rainstorm that came out of nowhere in the Bay Area. Nobody was expecting that. And then all of a sudden, like, here it is before the game. Torrential downpour.

[Andrew Hawkins]

That's what you should be boycotting.

[Sue Gods]

It's San Francisco, right? All of a sudden it came out of nowhere. It's the worst weather city of all the baseball cities there playing Candlestick Park. There's a roof, but plenty. Candlestick Park. I don't know if you ever did, but if you ever. It's the worst.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I say dome every NFL stadium that nobody likes that take but grass. Get rid of the elements. I do not want to play in rain. I do not want to play snow.

[Stugotz]

Football was meant to be played. It was meant to be played in the elements. What are you talking about?

[David Sampson]

Maybe that's frozen tundra.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Maybe when the Stugotts were running backs in the NFL.

[David Sampson]

The autumn wind is a pirate.

[Dan Le Batard]

Goes nice till like Thanksgiving. Ish.

[David Sampson]

The fake Mark Twain quote about coldest winters being summers that he didn't actually say. No, you have to have some element of elements in this sport.

[Sue Gods]

Can we get it right? The worst winter I ever spent was the summer I spent in San Francisco.

[David Sampson]

Right. But it wasn't actually Mark Twain that said.

[Sue Gods]

But it wasn't the quote you said either.

[David Sampson]

I know. So I don't have to respect the quote if it's not Dan's. And Dan, we have perfect fodder. A football player quit on his team. So that's. It's wonderful as the. As a season. Just.

[Andrew Hawkins]

They're not talking about me.

[David Sampson]

Dan flames out in Embers. Hawk admitted that he had considered, but not seriously. I'm thought about it.

[Andrew Hawkins]

It was a fantastic curious.

[David Sampson]

Like, what was. What was a one point in your career where you were like, I don't know.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Jim won one in 15 season. When you're like, it's the third quarter, you're down by 30, right? You know, the defense is out there. They start to say, put return on alert. And you're like, I gotta go back out here and risk getting my head taken off knowing there's no chance for us to win this game or probably any game for the remainder of this season.

[Stugotz]

But you went back after. But I went back every single time.

[Andrew Hawkins]

And I don't know if that was me being institutionalized, but I did fantasize about it.

[Mike Ryan]

Peanut Tillman said that he was playing in a game in Chicago. And this is Peanut Tillman, right? Yeah, Notorious tough guy, where the field was so much ice and stuff that when he went out there, he's like, I just don't want to do this. I want to quit. I want to stop playing football.

[Sue Gods]

It's a Tuesday for people to feel that in their job. But you don't manifest it, especially when you're a professional athlete, in the public view. You don't manifest it by walking off the field the way he did. The image that we haven't shown.

[Stugotz]

He's hurt, David.

[Sue Gods]

He wasn't limping. It wasn't Chris Reid.

[Stugotz]

He is hurt. His ego is hurt. Yes.

[Sue Gods]

I'm so sorry, Stu.

[Andrew Hawkins]

There's no rehab for feelings in the NFL.

[Sue Gods]

Very sad.

[Mike Ryan]

But Hawk, can he get a job again? Because this is the cardinal sin, right? The times I have seen players react the way George Kittle did, Barrett Robbins when he didn't show up for a Super bowl because he had a bipolar episode, and Vonta Davis when he quit at halftime of a Bills game. It's the only time I' seen players react the way they react because it's the Cardinals sin will hit. Will another team put this player on a roster once he's cut? Because this is the worst thing you can do in football, is choose not to play when your teammates need you.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I won't say it's impossible, Dan. I mean, if he still wants. I don't know. That's the point. Like, if I walk off a field, I have no intentions on ever walking back on it. Like, when Vontae Davis left, he wasn't coming back to a football field. He knew that. And he's like, you know what? This is the moment where I feel like my career is done.

[Mike Ryan]

The reason I asked the question is because this is a player who has, like all players in the NFL, worked so much of his life to get this point to this point, and now we're learning his name associated with quitting. This is what he's getting. This is. He is known now more for quitting than he is for playing.

[Andrew Hawkins]

And I think that is what's going to block him from playing on another team. I don't think he's going to want to come back from this. That's just.

[David Sampson]

But he's a good player that still.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Has 2020 Walter Payton, man of the Year nominee. So it's like a good dude. He's just done.

[Dan Le Batard]

He should just do a Costanza, show up at practice the next day and pretend like nothing ever happened.

[Sue Gods]

Not letting him.

[David Sampson]

Don't you think other teams, even within that division will understand, like, okay, he performed admirably in the starter's place. Starter comes back, starts not feeling completely right, they ask him to go in and not a good moment, certainly quitting. But if you had just the additional context, people can understand, like, this was maybe just an emotional moment, but that.

[Tony]

Happens every single day. There's guys that play great, and then all of a sudden, hey, the starter's back in. Your ass is on the bench. Guess what? I got to make sure that next time my number's called, I'm playing great so that I become a starter.

[Stugotz]

Yeah. But then the starter comes back and he's not good enough to play anymore. Then the starter gets hurt, and then he wants him to go back in. I ain't going back in no mid.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Mid game holdout. Man. They should have just negotiated a new contract. He'd have been in there about a fourth.

[David Sampson]

Does it surprise you that it's a veteran that's doing this?

[Andrew Hawkins]

It does surprise me. That's why I'm, like, leaning more towards the is he trying to retire Type of thing, or is it that, yo, I didn't warm up to go in here to play. If I go out there, I'm going to get exposed.

[Mike Ryan]

Fred Warner has been playing on a fractured ankle for 11 weeks. I don't even know how a human being does that. The rest of that team is falling apart after being one of the best teams in the league for five years, only because their guys keep getting carried off the field like they're physically broken. And this guy does that. Like, he, he. I don't know that I think he loses friendships over something like that in that locker room, given what trust means for sure in your particular game.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yeah, no, he definitely loses friendships if he had them. You'd be surprised how there's not, like, real friendships in the NFL. But regardless, you're absolutely right on all those things. I'm just trying to, like, put myself in the mind of Campbell, of what could be going through your mind at 31, which is old in the NFL linebacker who's been on the sideline the entirety of the game. Maybe you didn't warm up the way that you thought you would because you didn't think you were playing. And in this moment, it's like a. I can't go in there because I'm going to get exposed because I'm not ready to play. Now, that is something I can identify with. My rookie year with the Bengals in preseason. This is the second preseason game now. I'm a guy Coming from Canada, I'm low on the roster. And I'm like, I'm trying to do everything in my damn power to just stick around on the roster. It was late in maybe the first game that I played. I can't remember who it was against. Maybe the jets, maybe the Lions. But Marvin Lewis walks up to me and he's like, hey, go out there and, you know, jump in on punt return or the special teams coordinator, Coach Simmons. And I'm like, no. And he, like, eyes went up and he's like, wait a minute. I said, go punt return. And I was like, yeah, no, I didn't practice that. And he's like, gives me another opportunity to say, hey, Hawk, get your ass out there and return these punts. And I said, coach, I didn't practice that, and I don't want to go out there and drop a punt. And then you cut me. And then all the rest of the 31 teams see that I can't catch punts and I don't have a chance. Marvin Lewis comes over to try to convince me, and I said, look, if you give me a week, I will return punts next week. They were like, okay, interesting. Interesting strategy.

[Stugotz]

You're crazy, man.

[Andrew Hawkins]

That week, I worked on punt returns all week. They put me in. I returned it for 41 yards in the first punt return made the practice squad. That's an honest to God true story.

[David Sampson]

Ballsy.

[Andrew Hawkins]

But I was not willing to go out there and just seal my fate when I wasn't confident in myself and ability.

[Mike Ryan]

I can't believe you did that.

[Andrew Hawkins]

That is a true story.

[Mike Ryan]

I can't believe that you told coaches who were coming to you on sidelines asking for a favor. Yeah, I haven't practiced that.

[Stugotz]

It's not a favor. They're asking him to do something he's never done before.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I'm not prepared.

[David Sampson]

He's done it a bunch of times in his life before, just not for that team.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I sucked at catching punts.

[Mike Ryan]

It's hard.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I'm. This is too. The stakes are too big to go out here and just give it a shot because no one's going to have that.

[Stugotz]

Imagining you as a punt returner.

[Mike Ryan]

Worst job in football.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I didn't return a single punt or kick in my career. And I'm five seven. I'm the first sub five ten receiver in NFL history who was truly just a wide receiver. I don't think you guys realize that I was not a returner.

[Mike Ryan]

I can't believe they didn't waive you.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yeah, I know, but it was. It was something. It was a bet I was willing to make.

[David Sampson]

Was that naivete like you're just entering the league? If veteran Hawk was around, would he advise young Hawk differently?

[Andrew Hawkins]

That might have been the wisest I've ever been in my life.

[Mike Ryan]

It's unbelievably smart. I just can't believe your coaches accepted it without consequences.

[Andrew Hawkins]

So here's what happened previously to even me getting to Cincinnati. Lockout happened and I had signed with the Rams and I got cut on day one and I had a great practice. The one thing that happened in practice one is I dropped the punt. So if I'm the Rams and you might be thinking, oh, he's five, seven and he dropped two punts, and I'm like, well, maybe that's why they cut me. Won't make that mistake again. Get to Cincinnati. Not in a game, brother. Go out there and return. Absolutely not. And it was a thing like Marvin Lewis, the special teams coordinator, the receiver coach, they're like trying to convince me, like, hey, you don't know how bad of a light this is putting you in. But I had to bet on myself in that moment.

[Mike Ryan]

You're not even betting on yourself.

[Andrew Hawkins]

You're just betting that you're going to.

[Mike Ryan]

Return a fund, but you're betting on the fact that you're going to fumble.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Like that's what you're betting.

[Mike Ryan]

You're betting against.

[Stugotz]

Could have scored a touchdown.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I mean, the other team could have scored a touchdown.

[Sue Gods]

It's outrageous.

[Stugotz]

I want to hear more about your fake NFL friends.

[Tony]

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[Stugotz]

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[Jessica]

The holiday home stretch is here. And when you're crossing names off your holiday list, you can't forget about your pets. Dopey and Izzy would never forgive me if I did. And Chewy is the only name I need to know for everything to keep my pet happy and healthy. That's why Chewy's perfect. You just go home, relax, kick your feet off and shop online for your pet. And with the holiday shopping season winding down, Chewy is giving us a gift. Huge savings. Up to 40 or even 60% off flash deals, BOGOs, and so much more. Not just for dogs and cats, birds, fish, reptiles and more. Chewy's auto ship feature is the real stress reducing hero. I've set up recurring shipments with all the essentials we use and they show up to my door just one to two days later. I'm never running out and can change or cancel my auto ship order at any time. The other day I was going feed my doggies Dopey and Izzy, as I mentioned earlier, you know them. And I said, you know what, I'm running low. Let me check something. Boom, right there. I had an auto ship notification in my email saying the dog food was coming tomorrow.

[Andrew Hawkins]

True.

[Jessica]

It's not just dog food. You can get treats like greenies that keep my dog's smiles pearly white. Don't forget gifts for your pets. This holiday season, take advantage of amazing deals and shop my personal [e-mail] dan that's chewy.com dan chewy.com dan Don LeBatard Bob Kraft.

[Stugotz]

The only reason your organization is good is because of Bill Belichick.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Stugotts.

[Stugotz]

Belichick has done nothing since since Brady left. He made the playoffs once. I think at the very least he should not be a first ballot hall of famer. They should make him wait like 10 years to get in. He's an overrated coach.

[Andrew Hawkins]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the stugats.

[David Sampson]

Some of the ticket prices for these college football playoff games are insane. But it's the first time we've ever seen games with this kind of stakes attached in home on campus venues. Really in demand tickets. And I'm sure a lot of you are frustrated because you're wondering, how can I get these in demand tickets? Jess, I know you're headed up to some South Bend for a playoff game against Indiana. Why don't you download the Game Time app? I'm sure you already have, but if you haven't, create an account use code DAN that is D A N for $20 off your first purchase terms apply. You get panoramic seat views. Game time's incredible ticket coverage. Really the best in the secondary ticket marketplace. Download Game time today. What time is it? Well, it's game time. Game time. It's game time.

[Mike Ryan]

Jessica, what is your level of enthusiasm for Saturday and bowl season?

[Dan Le Batard]

You mean this Saturday?

[Mike Ryan]

That's right.

[Dan Le Batard]

I thought you meant the Notre Dame game, which is next Friday. I won tickets in the lottery, so.

[David Sampson]

Oh, really?

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah. Don't have to go on the secondary market. Very exciting face value.

[Mike Ryan]

Congratulations.

[Dan Le Batard]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Mike Ryan]

Are you afraid of losing to Indiana? Indiana.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well said. Yeah, I mean, I think it's going to be a great game. I'm really excited. It's like two teams that never play each other where every single person who's a fan of either team is either a fan of the other team. Also. Or knows someone who is like. It's a very two kind of close knit fan communities, I think. So. I'm excited. My best friend went to Indiana. A lot of my friends went to Indiana. It's great. I think it's going to be super cool. But. Yeah, this Saturday bowl season starts. There is a bowl game this Saturday. Hawk, I know you played in a couple bowl games while you were at Toledo.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yeah, big time bowl game.

[Dan Le Batard]

Detroit, one of the Motor City Bowl. Right. And then you played in the GMAC bowl, which is in Alabama.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Mobile, Alabama, to be specific.

[Dan Le Batard]

What? So I. Toledo is actually playing in the Detroit game again against Pitt this year. Very exciting.

[Andrew Hawkins]

You have Pittsburgh ties, right?

[Dan Le Batard]

Yes. Yeah. And I know you're from Johnstown. Johnstown Flood. We've been over David McCullough's wonderful book on the Flood.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Absolutely needs to be a movie.

[Dan Le Batard]

It does need to be a movie. Who would you cast in the movie of the Johnstown Flood?

[Andrew Hawkins]

I've been thinking about this a lot, actually. Leonardo DiCaprio, I think would be great as Andrew Carnegie. I don't know about Carnegie. That's the original Tom Hanks. Also great. I don't know if you've heard of.

[David Sampson]

These actors, usually up for the same roles.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yeah. And it'd be great to get them both in there. I think.

[Dan Le Batard]

DiCaprio.

[Andrew Hawkins]

There's a lot of white guys in.

[David Sampson]

De Niro and everything.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Plenty to go around.

[Dan Le Batard]

DiCaprio could be a good evil Andrew Carnegie.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yeah.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, we're gonna build our fancy retreat in the.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Everyone is like so lost right now. Right now. Jessica. Me and you know what happened.

[Dan Le Batard]

Exactly.

[Andrew Hawkins]

The rest of the world needs to understand that this was the biggest natural disaster on American soil until Hurricane Katrina in my hometown. Okay.

[Dan Le Batard]

Also, Altoona's been in the news a lot lately.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Oh, yeah.

[Dan Le Batard]

We discussed Altoona and the Curve on the show prior to the most recent news.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Now I feel at home. Jessica. Thank you, Dan.

[Dan Le Batard]

You're welcome.

[Andrew Hawkins]

You should be more like Jessica. She knows how to welcome me in.

[Dan Le Batard]

People say that about him all the.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Time, I would imagine.

[Dan Le Batard]

What is it like as a football player at Toledo to play in the postseason and play in these bowl games? Because I personally love bowl season. Yeah, I've been saddened, everyone. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I've been. I've been slightly saddened that like the sort of 7 and 5 team to 8 and 14 bowl games have been not devalued. Because they're not devalued to me. But it seems like there's less enthusiasm from a Lot of people now that we have the 12 team playoffs. So as, as a player, I guess what's your perspective on bowl season in general?

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yeah, that's a great question. And you know what I love about this show is I can be honest. I'm not honest anywhere else as much as I am here. I hated bowl games. It sucked.

[David Sampson]

You got swag bags.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yeah. I mean, what was the swag bag.

[David Sampson]

Like for the GMAC bowl?

[Andrew Hawkins]

I think for the GMAC bowl we got a. This is an old time. It was like a portable DVD player.

[Sue Gods]

Nice.

[Andrew Hawkins]

We got a camcorder for. Actually, no, we got a portable DVD player in a camcorder. For the Motor City bowl, which is my freshman year, we went against Dan Orlofsky. Torched us. In year two, we went against Jordan Palmer in the UTEP minors, I believe is their mascot. And they gave us like a designer hammer. And I'm like, okay, this is. I'm good. On bowl season, they elongated our season. You practice for a month and a half after your season is done.

[Mike Ryan]

A hammer. They gave you a hammer?

[Andrew Hawkins]

They gave us a hammer, man.

[Sue Gods]

Designer hammer. I've never heard that.

[Andrew Hawkins]

It was like a specially designed hammer.

[Sue Gods]

Like a Louis Vuitton wrapped hammer.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I don't know what the hell it was, but it was. I didn't play in another bowl game for the rest of my career and I didn't. I didn't lose a night of sleep.

[Dan Le Batard]

So if your team was like five and six going into the last week of the season, would you like maybe, you know, not try that hard?

[Andrew Hawkins]

I mean, I wouldn't throw the game if that's what you're asking.

[Dan Le Batard]

But like, season's over if you lose.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Also, I don't know if you've been to Toledo, Ohio.

[Dan Le Batard]

I. Oh my God. In late November in Toledo, Ohio. I've been there a million times.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Miserable Perrysburg. And we didn't have an indoor facility. This is the mat. Coffee.

[Dan Le Batard]

This is a great science museum there, though.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I've never been to the science museum. No, we're just practicing in the snow for an extra month and a half only to go get whooped by whatever six round quarterback.

[Mike Ryan]

To get hammered and to get hammered.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Both. Yes, it was. It was. It was miserable.

[David Sampson]

So making a bowl meant additional month out in the elements.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Damn it.

[Dan Le Batard]

It's like what, 15 extra practices that you get for bowl season. So would your perspective have been different if you made like the Bahamas bowl or the Hawaii Bowl?

[Andrew Hawkins]

Absolutely.

[Dan Le Batard]

So the problem here is the destination.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Absolutely. For sure.

[Dan Le Batard]

That makes a Lot of sense.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Count me in on the Bahamas Bowl.

[Mike Ryan]

What are you shaking your head about, Samson?

[Sue Gods]

All I'm hearing from Hawkins, and I'm happy to, working with him today, but all I'm hearing are things that I have such contempt for that I'm having a hard time because I'm trying.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Welcome.

[Sue Gods]

Trying to like you. You have a Yankee hat on. You're talking about walking out. You're talking about not trying to like you, telling a coach that you won't go in to catch a punt. And now you're saying that you don't want to practice the extra for a bowl game.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I thought it was business first with you, David. I thought that was.

[Sue Gods]

The business is telling your coach that you're going to go in. That's like saying, oh, I'm not good at bunting. Don't put your business sign on.

[Andrew Hawkins]

No, that's your business.

[Sue Gods]

Are you in the business of not getting a career?

[Andrew Hawkins]

I'm in the business of not losing my career, so I gotta go. I wasn't yet. What career is that? I can promise you, had I went in there and dropped a punt, I would not be sitting at. I can guarantee you, David, had I got in there and dropped a punt against the Carolina Panthers in my second preseason game of my rookie year, you guys would have no idea who I am.

[Mike Ryan]

You guys don't understand, though, what an amazing decision that was that he had to make. When he's doing the calculations on if I draw drop a punt, I'm going to get waved, am I going to get waived if I tell my coaches I'm not going to do this? There is calculations happening on your career. On the sideline right there.

[David Sampson]

He provided crucial insight in that he muffed a punt and got cut immediately. So he knows the cause and effect with his time at the Rams.

[Andrew Hawkins]

I might make a mistake, Mike. I'll never make a mistake twice.

[David Sampson]

You know, it's funny, like, you detail all these things that kind of sound miserable practicing outside of Toledo, CFL winning one professional football game, two full seasons. Toledo, Toledo, Toledo. What happened? So you go through all of that and then you go to Foxborough and you link up with the Patriots. You have the greatest quarterback of all time and the greatest head coach of all time. And that's when you decide, yeah, I.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Think this is it.

[Sue Gods]

It's too good now.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yeah, I need misery. And actually, my first practice in New England, it Snowed, it was May 28, so there is that.

[Mike Ryan]

You tell Belichick you're not returning a punt. You think it's going the same way that it went with Marvin Lewis.

[Andrew Hawkins]

No, no, absolutely not. That's not how that works.

[Mike Ryan]

I wanted to ask you about something I've been talking about for a couple of days, funny enough. So Odell Beckham and the Dolphins agree to mutually part ways. And one of the things that I was saying this week is how does Odell Beckham, given where he's been in sports and fame and stardom, feel about playing a Dolphin game? Seeing a stat line that has one catch for one yard? I was arguing that a receiver might rather have zero catches for zero yards because then people can assume he didn't play.

[David Sampson]

Whereas the Chris Bosh rule. Chris Bosh had like one point in an NBA Finals zero.

[Mike Ryan]

Scoreless. Scoreless in a game seven.

[David Sampson]

There was a basketball player that had one point in a playoff game. And I was like, I'd rather have zero.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Zero?

[David Sampson]

Yeah. I'd rather have zero than just one.

[Mike Ryan]

Catch for one yard. One catch for one.

[Andrew Hawkins]

You don't want zero. One catch for one yard is just as bad as all zeros. But all zeros shows that you played and didn't get a catch.

[Mike Ryan]

I think one catch for one yard is worse than zero for zero yards. But what if I make a one catch for negative one yard? Then do you prefer that to zero for zero yards?

[Andrew Hawkins]

I think I've had games with negative receiving yards. Can we check the stats on those?

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, I'm checking the stats on the 2005 GMAC bowl and the 2004 Motor City Bowl.

[Andrew Hawkins]

What does it say?

[Dan Le Batard]

You're not on either box score. So I said, in this case, you'd rather have one catch for one yard. Because I.

[Andrew Hawkins]

You know why I'm not eating box score, Jessica?

[Sue Gods]

Because you went return a freshman.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Because I broke my back the game before and I did not play in the bowl game.

[Sue Gods]

That's one year. What I said you beat the minors the first year.

[Andrew Hawkins]

It's zero catches, zero yards. Because I did play in that game.

[Mike Ryan]

Can you guys get for me? The last time I heard, I broke my back. Said quite that way when Mike Tyson was in a ring. Being interviewed by Jim. Jim Gray.

[Dan Le Batard]

The problem, Hawk, is that your defense gave up 17 points in the first quarter to Orlovsky. Yeah, I mean, that's a tough place to come back for. Better second quarter for the Rockets. But when you're down 17 0, what.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Can you actually do? We lost our number one receiver in Lance Moore. Bruce got hurt.

[David Sampson]

Bruce Gradkowski, loaded with NFL talent on the off.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Jalen Parmelee Parmalee. I was in a slot.

[Dan Le Batard]

I don't. Why were we. Why were we arguing about Mac teams on this show? A couple years ago, it might have been when Notre Dame almost lost to Toledo in 2021, I was like, hey, Toledo's got some dudes. Like, they put dudes in the NFL.

[Andrew Hawkins]

We got dudes. I would. I would argue we are a top 50 program in the last 40 years.

[Mike Ryan]

Put it on the poll, please. Is Toledo a top 50 program in the last 40 years? And play the Mike Tyson sound, please.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Mike, were you really sick this week?

[David Sampson]

What was the problem?

[Andrew Hawkins]

I broke my back. What do you mean by that?

[David Sampson]

You broke my back is broken. What, a vertebrae or partial spinal.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Yes, I understand. Mike Tyson can't be standing there then.

[Mike Ryan]

I wanted to ask David Sampson something here based on what it is that the jets are doing with their GM search where they're going to a firm that employs Rick Spielman and Mike Tanenbaum, two failed Dolphin general managers, to get their new general manager and a failed.

[Sue Gods]

Jets general manager on top of that.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, Tannenbaum is both right. A failed Dolphin general manager actually was more successful with the jets, but Spielman, also a failed Dolphin general manager. What do you make of just the general incestuousness of continuing to go over and over to get your expertise from the same people?

[Sue Gods]

Owners like comfort. It's like comfort food. They go back to people. And that's the talk of Belichick going back to some of his old assistant coaches. It's a weird thing that owners have when there's openings, they want to bring people back. Think about George Steinbrenner with Billy Martin, old reference. But you bring them back again and again. And owners have always been like that. And everybody's smart. They're starting these consulting companies where you get paid to perform a job that anyone could do without being paid to do it. So when you're being paid to sell a team, if you want to sell a team, you raise your hand and say you're selling a team. And people come to you when you've got an opening for gm, what they're saying is, we can identify kids in a way that you can't. But that's not how it works, actually.

[Mike Ryan]

They can't. Right? They don't. Have those two people proved to me over many years that they don't have a special ability to find talent.

[David Sampson]

Howdy, folks. It's Mike. And guess what? It's Miller time. The holiday season brings around lots of joy and also lots of family. Lots of family gatherings at your home. You're inviting people in there. You want to make sure they're happy. Why don't you make their time at your place? A Miller Time Pass around that beautiful white can of triple hops brewed Miller Lite and watch the smiles adorn those faces. Make Miller Light the official drink. The official beverage of your holiday get together. You know why? Because it is a perfect beer for the holiday season. You'll take a sip, you'll look around and you'll think immediately, yeah, I made the Ripe. It's got tastes that you can depend on. No games, no gimmicks. Just great beer. For people who like beer, making memories at year end gatherings tastes like Miller time. Go to millerlite.com dan to find delivery options near you. Or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Fewer calories and carbs than premium regular beer.