Local Hour: Horseshoes and Hand Grenades (and Collusion)

Summary

Summary of "Local Hour: Horseshoes and Hand Grenades (and Collusion)"
The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz
Release Date: June 25, 2025

In this episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz, hosts Dan Le Batard and Stugotz engage in lively discussions covering a range of topics from personal anecdotes about parenting to in-depth analyses of NBA team strategies and labor issues within the NFL.

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1. Parenting Tales and Humorous Anecdotes

Timestamp: [01:04] - [05:03]

Dan Le Batard opens the episode by sharing humorous and relatable stories about the challenges of parenting. He recounts a situation involving his child’s gymnastics class, highlighting the anxieties parents often feel about their children's activities.

Notable Quote:
Dan Le Batard [01:14]:
"It's more of an off-air conversation. I'm not going to say, well, we're..."

2. Stugotz’s Upcoming MMA Fight

Timestamp: [06:12] - [07:30]

The conversation shifts to Stugotz announcing his participation in an upcoming MMA event against Brad Tavares. He emphasizes the show's commitment to delivering unique and engaging content by involving themselves directly in events like MMA.

Notable Quote:
Stugotz [06:24]:
"I'm gonna go sparring with Brad Tavares in the middleweight division."

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3. Analyzing the Boston Celtics’ Recent Trades

Timestamp: [07:30] - [15:24]

A substantial part of the episode is dedicated to dissecting the Boston Celtics' recent trades, specifically the acquisition of Jrue Holiday and Kristaps Porzingis. The hosts discuss the strategic financial maneuvers aimed at managing the team's salary cap while enhancing on-court performance.

Notable Quotes:
Billy [11:05]:
"The Celtics saved $180 million in tax penalties."
Chris Cote [10:46]:
"Anthony Simons, nice young player, one year left on his deal, good scorer."

4. Understanding the Repeater Tax and Its Impact

Timestamp: [15:24] - [17:27]

Dan and his co-hosts delve into the complexities of the NBA's repeater tax, exploring how teams like the Celtics navigate these financial restrictions to build competitive rosters. They debate the potential necessity of making tough trade decisions, such as possibly trading Derrick White to stay under the tax threshold.

Notable Quote:
Billy [16:27]:
"Why would you trade Derrick White?"

5. Critique of Front Office Strategies and Player Valuation

Timestamp: [17:27] - [21:16]

The hosts express skepticism about how NBA front offices value players versus their contributions on the court. They use the Celtics as a case study to question the worth of trading established players for future assets, highlighting concerns over long-term team sustainability.

Notable Quote:
Chris Cote [18:09]:
"That's not the rate. That's the rate."

6. NBA Draft Day Preparations and Fan Engagement

Timestamp: [21:26] - [23:02]

As NBA Draft Day approaches, the show transitions to discussing live watch parties and engaging the audience in real-time basketball analysis. The hosts share logistical challenges and humorous takes on preparing for the event.

Notable Quote:
Billy [22:07]:
"We're going to get Tim Kirkzin and we're at 6 o'clock tonight."

7. Labor Issues and Alleged Collusion in the NFL

Timestamp: [26:14] - [37:29]

A heated segment addresses a report by Pablo Torre regarding potential collusion within the NFL players' union. The hosts debate why such significant stories receive minimal media coverage and explore the implications of labor relations on the integrity of professional sports.

Notable Quotes:
Billy [27:36]:
"The owners tried to keep the money down... by basically colluding."
Dan Le Batard [26:14]:
"Why isn't this a bigger story?"

8. Fan Perception and Ethical Considerations in Sports Management

Timestamp: [37:29] - [40:17]

The discussion evolves to examine how fans perceive labor disputes and ethical issues within sports organizations. The hosts debate whether today's fans prioritize team success over the welfare of players and question the societal implications of allowing business strategies to overshadow human considerations.

Notable Quote:
Jeremy [35:08]:
"As a fan, that's where I'm coming from. So, like, I don't care."

9. Player Treatment and On-Field Incidents

Timestamp: [40:29] - [43:23]

An emotional recounting of an incident involving a baseball player being heckled leads to a broader conversation about empathy and humanity in sports. The hosts highlight a moment where a player's personal tragedy was met with inappropriate reactions from the audience, emphasizing the need for respect and understanding.

Notable Quote:
Billy [40:36]:
"I give you guys a story about a guy sobbing on the field..."

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Overall Insights:

• Balancing Business and Humanity: The hosts consistently explore the tension between the business aspects of professional sports and the human elements involved, advocating for empathy towards players while scrutinizing financial and managerial decisions.

• Media Influence on Sports Reporting: The discussion on NFL collusion underscores concerns about media partnerships influencing the coverage of critical labor issues, raising questions about journalistic integrity.

• Fan Engagement and Awareness: There's a notable emphasis on how informed today's sports fans are and how their priorities shape the discourse around team management and league policies.

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This episode offers a blend of personal storytelling and critical sports analysis, encouraging listeners to reflect on the complexities of sports management and the ethical responsibilities of those in positions of power within the industry.

Transcript

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[Cuervo Brand Representative]

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[Billy]

Cuervo? Anytime someone says Cuervo, I show up.

[Cuervo Brand Representative]

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[Billy]

Sweet, delicious Cuervo.

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[Billy]

Cuervo.

[Cuervo Brand Representative]

So enjoy the tequila that started it all.

[Billy]

Cuervo. Cuervo.

[Cuervo Brand Representative]

The tequila that invented tequila. Proximo Cuervo.com, please drink responsibly.

[Billy]

Cuervo. Billy, why did you just. Jeez Louise. Toning.

[Dan Le Batard]

He's a lot, this guy.

[Stugotz]

I literally haven't said anything to him that's I've said three words.

[Dan Le Batard]

The room's full of people and they all kind of see what's going on. His non answers are really telling answers. Like I come up to him and I was just. Because, you know, I'm in full, I'm in full parenting mode. Whoa, it's early for that. I'm in full parenting mode. Yeah, no, we've reached like the stage of parenting where like now there's gymnastics classes and things like that and there's extracurriculars that I'm taking the kids to, dropping them off, all that stuff. But not dropping them off because my wife got mad at me and I probably, I shouldn't have said this. No, I'm not going to, I'm not going to say what I said. It's more of an off air conversation. I'm not going to say, well, we're.

[Billy]

Not, you know, we're not on video air.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, we walked into gymnastics place and she's like, isn't this great? This looks like so much fun. Blah, blah. Like you look so serious sort of like looking around everywhere and, and I said, and I shouldn't have but it was like obviously a concern. It was like long history of abuse and gymnastics. So I'm like looking around like to make sure this is like, that's my child. I Need to make sure.

[Stugotz]

His job to be honest.

[Dan Le Batard]

Thank you. It is my job to make sure. So I'm looking around, making sure. So I was having conversations outside and I said, how's parenting going? And this, this Weisenheimer over here goes talking to Zazzle. I'm like, no, he's got it under control.

[Jeremy]

I got it on lock.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, he said he was looking that way, so I wasn't looking at Billy.

[Dan Le Batard]

I thought he was looking at him. I'm talking to you. I worry about you tying your shoes. So I'm like, how's parenting going? I know that early on it's. And you're not. So I'm asking, going, what did I tell you? He said something about crying, fidgeting, squirmy wormy, something like that.

[Stugotz]

Last night I said that she's been really. She's got two teeth now, sprouted out.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's what he said. She's been an angel, Perfect child. That's exactly two teeth.

[Stugotz]

She's been sprouted out now. Two teeth.

[Dan Le Batard]

None of that.

[Stugotz]

A little early, by the way. I've been told she's not six months yet and got two teeth.

[Billy]

That is surprising.

[Amin Elhassan]

People love to brag when their kids do stuff early. Like, oh, my kids falling over.

[Dan Le Batard]

Smartness.

[Stugotz]

Nobody said it was.

[Amin Elhassan]

My kid has two teeth already.

[Dan Le Batard]

Smartness isn't a sign of.

[Stugotz]

I'm just saying, like, I know, I know a baby that's like eight months, it still has one.

[Amin Elhassan]

See, don't shame that.

[Billy]

Don't shame the eight month baby with one tooth baby.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's. No, that's. One of the fun parts of being a parent is you look at other babies like that baby. What's going on? Why is that baby drill so much? What's going on over there?

[Stugotz]

So all I was saying when Billy asked me that was that she was a squirmy wormy last night and it was a lot. She didn't want to go to sleep that much. So it's like keeping the parents up. Of course, the day I have to come in.

[Dan Le Batard]

No. And then I asked like, how old are you gonna be? And I said, oh, about to be six months ago. You're. You're a half birthday guy. Yeah, you are like, I can tell you're a half birthday guy. And then there was like a long pause and he's like, and then there's long pause. And then we all, I think as a group was like, yeah, he is half birthday. He's like, I don't, I don't know if we're doing that. I'm like, when's the birthday? He's like, July 1st. I'm like, Buddy, you're a half birthday guy.

[Stugotz]

I'm not a half birthday guy. The reason I gave pause and concern was because you might be. Lewis's wife Dania had told Jenny, hey, we want to throw the baby a half birthday party.

[Dan Le Batard]

So now I'm like, hold on.

[Stugotz]

But we were accepting.

[Dan Le Batard]

We left out evidence early because this is the first we're hearing of this. You pretended like none of this was going on. So we, we nailed it. You are having a happy birthday. Because he goes. He's like, July 1st. I don't even know what day that is. I'm like, it's July 1st. What do you mean you don't know what day? July 1st. It has it in the title.

[Billy]

Put it on the poll, please. Juju at Lebatard show. Do you celebrate 6 months old's birthday and also put on the poll at Lebatard show? Are you bragging if you say your child has two teeth within six months?

[Dan Le Batard]

No. That is a flex. He's. I mean. And congratulations, you guys, incredible genes. Two teeth, six months. I mean, that's something to behold. Unfortunately, that means 30 more to go. Teething's going on. So, like that, that's. You're going to get the fevers. Yeah, teething sucks. Like, I'd rather have a child without.

[Billy]

Start the show already, please.

[Chris Cote]

Who you stumbled on to another Wild Billy Wednesday.

[Billy]

Hold on to your hats, partners.

[Jeremy]

It's about to get wild.

[Dan Le Batard]

So then I was asking him because he was half birthday guy. Obviously. Now we've found out, confirmed Donnie was.

[Stugotz]

Wanting to throw the half birthday. We haven't accepted the. The gift yet.

[Amin Elhassan]

Louis, Donnie's husband, has said in my ear, I just want for the record, we are not half birthday people.

[Dan Le Batard]

That seems impossible. Now everybody's backing away because I said, you're probably a half birthday guy. And I was like, are you guys like birthday month people? Like, when your months come around, like, oh, here's a whole month of activities. Or did you like downgrade to, oh, it's just our birthday weekend. Here's five festivities, like, no, none of that. Just one thing. I go, buddy, you're going to Las Vegas for a UFC fight and you're throwing yourself two parties. You're having one on a Friday, one on a Saturday. So don't come and tell me you're not a birthday month guy. When you can't just simply go to Las Vegas and get a couple interviews. No, we're gonna have two parties where you have to come see Tony next week or this weekend or whatever it even is.

[Stugotz]

First off, the first party is a Cuervo party. They're doing their own thing. They invited me to go over and kind of play host and do certain things. So I'm gonna go.

[Billy]

Aren't you fighting somebody on Friday?

[Stugotz]

Yeah, Dan, I'm going to be sparring. The wins record holder for the middleweight division, tied with Michael Bisping. His name is Brad Tavares in the middleweight division.

[Billy]

That's a bad idea by you.

[Chris Cote]

I'm a terrible idea.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Stugotz]

But again, what we're doing here with the MMA hangout is pushing the limits of content so you guys can follow along. Like I jump out of a plane, you guys don't. I fight people on camera, you guys don't like. I need you guys to elevate as I'm trying to elevate.

[Amin Elhassan]

Sparring, though, conveys he's going to take it easy on you.

[Billy]

Yeah.

[Stugotz]

Oh, sorry. So I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna set him up on T mobile on Saturday night.

[Dan Le Batard]

You gotta.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, I'm not gonna come in at 2, 220, like. All right, guys, I'm gonna fight now.

[Dan Le Batard]

Put the old Pat Riley right to the forehead. Leave a diamond in his head.

[Stugotz]

I might do a.

[Dan Le Batard]

By the way, for clarification, I've been told in my ear multiple times I was invited too by Lewis. So you can come meet Lewis as well right now.

[Billy]

All right, Louis, I've heard from you too much in the first five minutes of the show. Go sit in the penalty box, stop talking to people so much. And. And. And the rest of him so much, might I add.

[Stugotz]

Dan, Saturday night the MMA hangout will be live at Circa A Top stadium swim and you can go on the stadium swim party number one.

[Dan Le Batard]

Party number two.

[Stugotz]

Okay, you can go at top stadium swim and I'll read it right here. MMA Hangout live Saturday night from the Circle Hotel in Las Vegas overlooking Stadium Swim presented by Boost Moment.

[Billy]

What's that gonna be? That's the first time. So you've grown that into a big fun thing. I'm seeing if Mero can join you on Saturday if you'll have him. It's a very popular.

[Stugotz]

Of course I'll have a primo.

[Billy]

But you have grown it now so that you are flying to Vegas with a six month old that has two teeth. And I don't think your wife like very much that you're going to be in Vegas.

[Stugotz]

I think she said yesterday, like, I'm glad you're going to Vegas.

[Jeremy]

Are you getting paid for it?

[Billy]

Of course.

[Jeremy]

That's uncomfortable wives.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, he doesn't. I don't know if he.

[Billy]

Oh, there he is. Everyone likes money. Says, I'm glad that my wife is here. And not just because the NBA draft is today. It has been a fascinating thing to watch happen in the NBA. How teams and fan bases want to win the summer. The Celtics have made two trades in the last two days. You want to know when the last time was the Heat made a summer off season trade Kyle Lowry.

[Chris Cote]

Oh, that was a time.

[Billy]

And. But this is the thing, right? This is winning the off season is something that now matters for front offices. And we can say this right, at least the last two championships, maybe you feel like you could say this about all championships, but at least the last two championships are monuments to architecture. Like what the Celtics did two years ago that they just undid like that. That is masterwork right there. To get under the cap while Porzingis and Holiday become your fourth and fifth best player because Derrick White ascends to your third and all of a sudden you can get rid of them. And I mean, I want to get your thoughts on what they got back because I did not think that they had the kinds of assets in those two people trying to get under the cap that would bring them back, you know, a scorer and some value. I thought they would just have to dump to get out from under the cap.

[Chris Cote]

You don't think what they did was dump to get out of the cap?

[Billy]

They did, but they got stuff back.

[Chris Cote]

I mean, they got decent, nice pieces.

[Billy]

They got a scorer. They got someone who can score. When Portland doesn't have, like Portland has redundancy of skill set there are these.

[Amin Elhassan]

Decent or nice pieces. I need to know you guys. Like, I got two answers.

[Billy]

The man giving you the analysis when Drew Holiday went to Boston called him a waterlogged corpse.

[Chris Cote]

That's not what I said. But it's all right. I mean, like, if. If you're asking for my analysis and then undercutting it with a mockery of what a lot corpse is strong.

[Jeremy]

As strong as, say.

[Chris Cote]

I mean, it's not what I said.

[Billy]

But I thought you said corpse, so I thought you attached corpse to JRU Holliday.

[Jeremy]

I heard that's what you said.

[Chris Cote]

That's. That's not what I said. And I'm not going to relitigate a show from two years ago.

[Billy]

Can you guys find the sound?

[Chris Cote]

I said I sent the sound to you guys after you kept saying. I said corpse about it as far as like, oh, Boston got a corpse. That's not what I said. That's not what I said. But I'm sure if you can dig up the sound that I sent two years ago after I wanted you guys to cease and desist, that you'll know. But to the point, I'm saying Anthony Simons, nice young player, one year left on his deal, good scorer. He's got flaws, he's got warts. But again, in terms of what they got out of which is Jrue Holiday, who has long term money on the books and deteriorating not only in health but in play. That's a nice little swap. Porzingis for Jordan Yang. That is a massive. A massive.

[Billy]

Okay, yes, agreed. Although George Yang is one of my favorite players because he's shaped like me. I've loved him since I was state. But just so that you know, The Celtics saved $180 million in tax penalties. And whether you agree with it or not, in doing so, they got three second round picks, they got a veteran who's had a couple of playoff runs and they got a pot 20 point scorer. So I think we can agree my previous point, we'll get to the sound that Amin wants us to eradicate forever in a second. But I do think we can agree, if not all championships being always architecture based because sometimes you just have a star and doesn't matter how much you build around them, we can say the last two are celebrations of front office, can we not?

[Chris Cote]

Well, last year, this year's championship, it's more of a long term celebration of front office. To me, that's front office work is building over time and adding and curating and chiseling. Right. The big blockbuster deal rarely, not never, but rarely turns into an immediate championship. The Celtics swung big two summers ago by sending Marcus Smart, who was a big part of their culture.

[Billy]

Not an easy trade to make.

[Chris Cote]

That one is like. Yes, that's swinging for the fences. They went out and got Porzingis and it worked magically for them. The Thunder, yes. Acquiring Alex Caruso, huge not only for his contributions on the floor, but also because he taught them how to pop bottles of champagne. Don't know if you guys know that one.

[Billy]

I have to show you guys. I have to show you guys some of the video here on guys on the Thunder who have never had a drink and guys on the Thunder who had too many drinks. We can check in actually with them now as soon as you finish your point because Chet Holmgren was slurring through the parade. SGA looked drunk on gma and Jalen Williams says he's about to go drinking even though he's never had a drink.

[Chris Cote]

The Thunder are an example of the kind of patient front office work that nobody wants to. Nobody really wants. This thing started six years ago, right? And they tore it down and they used their cap space to accumulate and accumulate and accumulate and pick, right? And develop and make tweaks here and there. And it culminates with we have the cap space to sign Isaiah Hartenstein, cuz we think he fits what we need. We can go out and get Alex Caruso because we can't have too many of these young guys who've never done anything before. So Josh Giddey goes, Alex Caruso comes in. And now you get to a place where you win a championship and even then we see how small the margins are. It could have gone wrong several times.

[Billy]

They were ready to lose that championship. Oddball will have some draft coverage for you here if you want some of that good stuff. We will have drunken players in a second. But before I do that, Theo Epstein represents in the history of Boston the greatest architect that there has been in sports by reputation. I can't believe I'm saying this, but Brad Stevens would appear to be a better executive than he was a coach. And that's no knock on him as a coach. But the. The Marcus Smart trade is a very difficult trade to make to realize that Tatum and Brown needed to have a team that. That Marcus Smart didn't want to give it to them. And then to get two players like that. In Holiday and Porzingis, there were perfect compliments, perfect compliments because there are very few guys willing to do the things Jrue Holiday does as a third or fourth option. And Porzingis stretched the floor ridiculously, but also allowed for the growth of Derrick White in there. But the idea that that champion is no more that quickly. Still surprising to me. Like, still no, but it's still surprising to me. Why would it not be surprising to me? The Celtics seem like they were only on the ascent.

[Stugotz]

It seems like if Tatum doesn't get hurt, they're going to go to the repeated tax, they're going to go to the luxury tax. Like it felt like it was kind of churning that way. No, it's more that I don't know.

[Mike Ryan]

That they would have ever gone into any of that because of the new ownership and wanting to get under that luxury tax, but they would have been right back in that conversation. At least this year and still been around the championship, it feels like everything fell apart. And now not only are they making moves just based off the future because they know next. Next season doesn't really matter, but they were willing to get that much worse because they want to build it back up around Tatum once he is healthy.

[Chris Cote]

They were going to make hard decisions either way. The only thing the injury did was give them the out of, oh, no, no, we need to make hard decisions. But they like somebody. Not Brown, not Tatum. Right. And probably not Derek White. But there were going to be people gone.

[Jeremy]

So you think they're done.

[Billy]

Wait, but no, Shams is saying that Jalen and Derrick White, they're getting calls all over the place that the Celtics are getting the call. I don't think they're done. You think they're done?

[Chris Cote]

Done in what sense?

[Billy]

Either way, moves. Do you think that they're done with moves or done being able to do something for this year? Because I think they go right back to playing for the championship this year, even though Tatum's going to miss most.

[Chris Cote]

Of the year, they're one more move away from getting under the tax. They're in a repeater tax. And in order to get out of the repeater tax, you've got to be out of it three out of five times, right? So. Excuse me. Two times in five years. They've been in the repeater tax three times now. So they have a mandate to get under that thing one more time. So one more deal. Is it Sam Houser? Is it Derrick White? I don't think it's gonna be Jaylen Brown. I don't think it's gonna be Derrick White. But of course they're getting calls, and you gotta listen because you're in a position. Are they done forever? No, I think, you know, a year from now they'll be back to reload in the summer of 2020.

[Billy]

Why would you trade Derrick White?

[Chris Cote]

Because he makes $28 million next year, 30.3 the year after that, 32.5 the year after that, and he's got a player option of 35 the year after that. That's why he trades. It's not because, oh, I don't like him anymore. He's no good. It's. This is a lot of money now. If we're at the peak of competing for a championship, I'll pay it. Right. That's why they paid all those guys. But once you get to a place where we're like, we're not quite at the peak of competing for a Championship. It's really hard for me to convince ownership, hey, let's just keep throwing money at this thing that's not going to pay for itself.

[Jeremy]

I think they're going to trade Derrick White. I think they're going to trade Derrick White because you see what Orlando just got for Desmond Bain. Boston knows they're not a contender this year. If they can get a haul for Derrick White, which I think they probably could, then in a year from now, you're, you're, you're going to do it again like you're building your championship team around Tatum and Brown and now you have all of these assets next offseason to play with. I think they're going to trade Derek White.

[Stugotz]

The question is who has the assets to go get a Derrick White? Who has what they, what Desmond Bain went for? Who has that left out there?

[Chris Cote]

Oklahoma City has everything.

[Jeremy]

Brooklyn's got a ton of picks, but.

[Billy]

Brooklyn's got like five in the first round.

[Chris Cote]

Five in the first round and they don't know what to do with them.

[Stugotz]

Build their centerpiece around Derrick White for the Brooklyn Nets.

[Chris Cote]

I mean, look, you build your centerpiece around Desmond Bain. If you're the Orlando.

[Billy]

Do you believe Derrick White? I don't believe Derrick White's a number one. He, look, he's a lot better player than any of us thought he was, but he was at least that good because he played with those two other guys.

[Chris Cote]

Yes, he's. Let's not get caught up. Yes, he's not a centerpiece of a team. I'm just trying to be funny because Desmond Bain went for 8 billion picks. But to answer your question, a Sam Houser deal gets them under so he doesn't have to get to deal with.

[Billy]

You say 8 million picks. A gobert costs you 5 now. A bridges cost you 5 now. A bane cost you 5 now. Like that when.

[Chris Cote]

Yes, but let me stop you there because Gobert cost you five. What had Gobert done in his career? He was like a three time defensive player of the year when that happened. Right. The Bridges deal is the only example of like, hey, this guy who's never had any sort of accolade, we're gonna give a bazillion picks for him. Why? Well, because he's best friends with my best player. Like that was their thinking. The power of friendship. Of course.

[Billy]

But that's the rate now.

[Chris Cote]

That's not the rate. That's the rate.

[Billy]

If you're dealing with Bane, just. Bain just is a. He just is a catch and shoot three shooter. And he just went for five picks. That's the rate.

[Chris Cote]

That's the rate. If you're dealing with a team that is desperate. Kevin Durant went for one pick. What are we talking about?

[Billy]

Bane has never been an All Star star, like you just said, Bridges doesn't have accolades. Neither does Bane.

[Jeremy]

That's the way. That's the way I see it. I mean, is that I. I don't think it's what that guy is worth. I think it's about what that guy is worth to the team that's trading for him. Like Minnesota felt, okay, Gobert's not worth five picks, but to us he is because we think he's the missing piece for a championship. Mikel Bridges, he's not worth five picks, but to us, we think it makes sense.

[Billy]

Okay, so this was what Mike was doing yesterday when he was talking about the Heat missing on Anunobi and on and Siakam. They weren't missing pieces either. Right? Because they didn't end up being champions. Like, Siakam got very close and was important. Anunoby has been very important. But they don't get to be missing pieces because. No, the Heat have been as far as the Pacers just got.

[Jeremy]

But that's like saying the Siakam trade was a failure for.

[Billy]

I'm not saying it's a failure. Mike Ryan's criticizing them for every guy they have not gotten. And what I'm saying is if they gotten Siakam, they still wouldn't be a champion, and he'd still be criticizing them. If they'd gotten on an obi, they still wouldn't be a champion and he'd still be criticizing them.

[Jeremy]

But still, criticism is criticizing them. All right, you're obviously going to play that back. I mean, let's play back before we.

[Billy]

Do that Amines clip here where this was the analysis. He was mad at us. He had just gotten home on a flight. He was upset. Can you explain to us what context this needs, as you deny that your analysis was that he was a corpse?

[Chris Cote]

That wasn't the. From the day that I talked to you guys on the phone, I was on in the.

[Amin Elhassan]

I have a clip. It's audio.

[Chris Cote]

Drew Holiday's corpse. Oh, okay. Drew Holiday. Oh, it's amazing how it's just like three words and there's nothing around that.

[Amin Elhassan]

So you did not say Drew Holiday's corpse.

[Chris Cote]

Wow.

[Amin Elhassan]

You think that was edited?

[Dan Le Batard]

It could have been like, what are you wearing as Halloween costume this year? And he said Drew Holiday's corpse.

[Billy]

What was the context that could have been. It wasn't waterlogged context. It probably wasn't.

[Dan Le Batard]

Right. It wasn't water.

[Mike Ryan]

He also didn't call Drew holiday a corpse. Are there levels to a corpse of Drew Holiday? Which is a very different thing.

[Chris Cote]

Okay, so would you like the context? Since you guys aren't really good at.

[Dan Le Batard]

Finding the marine corps are celebrated the peace corps.

[Jeremy]

Peace corps two wide receiver corps.

[Dan Le Batard]

There you go. So this isn't all bad, Dan, the way you're painting a mean in this corner. You know what's weird? I mean, I was talking to people and I was like. Because it's wild Billy Wednesday, as I've been told. And I said, you know what? I'm not a man that asks for a lot, but I said, I demand a mean comes in here. Last week, for whatever reason we kept you away during the NBA finals. I don't demand on draft day. Amin is back so that we can cover the NBA draft.

[Chris Cote]

I'm. I'm happy you. You said that.

[Dan Le Batard]

I stood up for you. I said, tony, reality was supposed to be here today. Get that guy the hell out of here with his microphone and his bounce houses. I need a meaning studio on NBA draft day.

[Chris Cote]

Yeah, you do. Hey, draft day. I'm glad you brought that up. Today is draft day. NBA draft day.

[Dan Le Batard]

Who knew?

[Chris Cote]

Cooper, flag. Everyone's excited. I'm sure we're doing like a live watch along of the draft tonight, right? We're like. We're all basketballed out tonight. We're not you. You, Jeremy, like the whole everything, right? Because. Because there's no chance that there's another sport that's. Oh. In the beginning of the doldrums of its regular season that we're gonna pick this day of all days to do live watch along content. Because heaven forbid we have that on a Thursday or on a Friday or on a Tuesday or any other day of the week or the month that wasn't NBA draft day. No way that we could have that kind of planning around that.

[Billy]

Meadow, Mark is not great at scheduling.

[Chris Cote]

What?

[Billy]

Very bad at scheduling. But the reason this.

[Dan Le Batard]

He only has two parties coming up. One for each of his teeth.

[Stugotz]

Thank you.

[Jeremy]

I'm happy with the schedule.

[Chris Cote]

Neither on draft day though.

[Stugotz]

Exactly.

[Billy]

We have tonight a watch party with Tim Kirkjin that I don't actually know. Everyone here is invited. If you want to come and give us basketball analysis during it, you can. Because I will have to do it here from the studio. I wanted to do it from home, but my gangster wi fi is not gangster enough. And now I've got all sorts of work in the walls and in the roof and all sorts of insanity going on at my home trying to get get more gangster WI fi. But I will be here in the studio if you want to come by. You're here at the lser. If you want to come by, you're welcome to come here, give us some basketball coverage. The reason I'm doing this though with Tim Kirkshon is because no one around here except for Jeremy will talk baseball with me. No one. I can't get anyone to talk about my beloved Rays. And so they're so good.

[Mike Ryan]

Dan.

[Billy]

We're going to get Tim Kirk shin and we're at 6 o' clock tonight. We're just going to watch baseball games tonight. And if you want to come by, I mean, everyone's invited. If you want to come by and do basketball analysis, we'd be happy to have you during the draft. Would you like to do that?

[Chris Cote]

When you say more gangster WI fi, is the wifi going to become more gangster in nature or will there be more of this WI fi that is also gangster?

[Billy]

It'll just be better, huh? That's all I would say.

[Chris Cote]

Sounds like the former then.

[Stugotz]

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Hell yeah.

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[Amin Elhassan]

The Dan Levitard show with Stugots is sponsored by Better Help. So we mess around a lot on this show. Look, I know that, but let me be serious for a second. Men's mental health is a big deal. And honestly, for a long time I thought you have to tough everything out. Like I'm supposed to be the strong one, right? No cracks, no help, just keep going. No, that's not real life. Everyone, me, you, all of us, us need support. Sometimes you don't have to hit rock bottom to talk to someone. Therapy helps with stress, relationships, even just sorting through the day to day stuff. It can teach you boundaries, healthy coping tools. It just helps you be your best self. Betterhelp makes it super convenient. You can do sessions from home, work, wherever. And if your therapist isn't the right fit, you can switch at any time with no weirdness. With over 35,000 therapists, they've helped more than 5 million people already. And their app has a 4.9 rating out of 5 from over 1.7 million reviews. Guys, that is a wild percentage. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Talk it out with BetterHelp, our listeners get 10 off their first month at betterhelp.com DLB that's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com DLB Don LeBatard I've never stepped.

[Jeremy]

Foot on that campus.

[Billy]

I.

[Jeremy]

If you told me right now your life depends on it. Go to Santa Fe University and just, just, just take a picture.

[Billy]

Stugats. I would die.

[Jeremy]

I don't know where it is.

[Dan Le Batard]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugach.

[Billy]

Something that Amin was saying earlier. And I want to present this to the group here as something that the media and sports talk about very poorly. Okay? Because Amin just threw out their repeater tax and I don't believe that 1% of the audience has an actual knowledge of very much salary cap beyond. You're either over it or under it. But there is an information age going on right now throughout sports where Jordan Schultz is fighting Ian Rapoport in a Starbucks because they don't like each other. And Schultz is now being accused by other information guys of buying his way into the game by sending executives coffee from his father, Starbucks owner who used to own the Supersonics. An interesting career choice, by the way, when your father is the owner of Starbucks and the Supersonics, that's his father. To choose the information, you gotta do something, right?

[Dan Le Batard]

I mean, why not pick something fun?

[Billy]

Yeah, but you think that's fun? You think.

[Dan Le Batard]

I mean, for him, he's chosen that over doing nothing.

[Chris Cote]

Coffee.

[Billy]

He's being a choose, not nothing.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's what I'm saying. He's chosen that over a life of, like, riding jet skis and swimming pools.

[Chris Cote]

I do so much nothing and coffee.

[Billy]

Are you trying to make that sound like a bad thing? What, a life of jet skis?

[Dan Le Batard]

No, I'm saying that is an awesome life. And he's chosen this over that.

[Billy]

But it doesn't seem fun. The information game does not seem competitive.

[Dan Le Batard]

You get to go and threaten Ian Rapaport inside a Starbucks. That's what's more fun than that.

[Billy]

A Starbucks your father owns.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, that's why you can get away with it. Are you going to press charges? No, that's my boss.

[Chris Cote]

That's what I thought.

[Billy]

The repeater, the information guys are really valuable. Okay, I want to talk about Jordan Schultz in a second because what's happening with him is funny. The he's being accused by other information guys as being doing to the information game what live the Saudis have done to live golf, where they buy their way into the game. And now he's got player relationships the way Jay Glazer used to have player relationships. And most of the insiders don't have the player relationships. They have the executive relationships. And so he's playing a different game. But when. When Amin mentions the repeater attacks. The thing that I wanted to ask you guys is Pablo Torre has a report that is the sixth headline on a slow news day on ESPN News. He's got big breaking news, but it's about labor, the NFL players union, and what would pass for something very close to the dirty insides of collusion. Doesn't quite get there, but it shows you how it is. The owners tried to keep the money down, these greedy owners in that sport, by basically colluding, even though an arbiter ruled that they did not collude. And the media has covered it very poorly. And Mike Florio is yelling and screaming about this. And I'm curious Whether you guys are interested in this part of it at all. Mike Florio saying it's not being covered cuz everyone's a league partner. And so it, it, it's not gonna be covered. And, and so it finally got onto the ESPN homepage. As I said, the sixth, the sixth story. But all day yesterday, this was not talked about by the league partners. And I'm just curious, I'm asking you this because I remember these conversations when we left ESPN and how insistent I was to the people who were doing our negotiating. Hey, be careful about partnering us with anybody who's NFL adjacent because they're going to be trying to control stuff we're saying around here and how we say it and when we say it. And the NFL has become so powerful right now, okay, Because Ian Rapaport is an NFL employee, okay? He's an information guy paid for by the NFL. The NFL has become so powerful that it's coming very close to being able to control the news. Like not totally, but more than most people can. And I'm just curious, do any of you care? Because the insides of that story, and you could check it out, a Pablo Torrey finds out. The insides of that story will show you how dirty this business is, how greedy the people are, and how that power is at the very top of that sport in a way that's very well concealed. Florio and Pablo Torre were trying to get these documents and Tory got him first. But what do you make of Florio's criticism that league partners in business with the NFL have to do things like this? I will tell you that John Skipper, former CEO of our company, has the story of when their partnership with the NFL was with PBS and reporting about the NFL's concussion problem. You got ESPN doing business and journalism. Those things have to be different. They have to be separated. But ESPN managed it for many, many years. All of the conflicts in the business. But as the story climbed on concussions, that story got to Skipper. And Skipper's like, okay, we're out on concussions, we got to get out on concussions. We got. This is climbed too high. I'm the conflict of interest. I at the top of the company have to decide are we doing business or are we doing journalism? And then all of a sudden concussion coverage, the way it was being covered at the time, that it was groundbreaking. I mean, like it was. It was PBS or was it npr? It was a report that was showing the insides of brain trauma and the journalism department had to get out on that. When the conflict reached where the business was. And so I ask you, as I present you this story of collusion and the way that people love these contract management information stories, why isn't this a bigger story?

[Chris Cote]

The, the Florio story or the, The Celtics repeater?

[Billy]

The Celtics repeater I don't want to talk about anymore.

[Chris Cote]

All right, Just make it.

[Billy]

Why would you think I was asking you about the Celtics?

[Chris Cote]

Because you start that. That was the, that was the launch.

[Mike Ryan]

That is where that started.

[Chris Cote]

And then you.

[Amin Elhassan]

So what I'd rather talk about went.

[Mike Ryan]

A few different directions.

[Amin Elhassan]

Scaring me.

[Chris Cote]

This conversation worked your way back here? Well, first of all, does Florida not still work for NBC?

[Billy]

I think he's got a contractor gig.

[Stugotz]

That kind of thing.

[Billy]

He gets money from NBC, so.

[Chris Cote]

But that's kind of. That's playing with fire for him a little bit, right? If he's saying this story isn't getting touched because it's too hot for a league partner, and he gets a little business with a league partner, I can't imagine that the league that he's claiming to be that controlling would be happy that someone on league partner airwaves is talking like this.

[Billy]

But is it because the story's too hot or is it because people don't like these kinds of stories that they're interested in certain things? Like, if I made this about Kaepernick, all of a sudden, it would be a much different story. Right? But this is, this is really close to collusion, what is happening here. And maybe it's a different story as well if, if, if collusion had been ruled, which is not what happened when it went to an arbiter.

[Chris Cote]

I, I think the reason you're talking about, which is a valid one, is that, yeah, people just care about what happens on Sunday. Right. They don't really care, especially if it's not like, oh, this is making things harder for my team. That's what fans care about. Hey, are you, are you hurting the Dolphins from getting. Oh, no, this is just something that screws players over but, like, doesn't do anything for my team. Yeah, I'm fine with that.

[Billy]

Are you accurate, though, when he says that about. I feel like the fan today is more informed than he or she has ever been and wants to be more informed than he or she has ever.

[Chris Cote]

Been, but they don't care about information that does not impact them. So, for instance, my boring repeater attacks conversation. Celtics fans are like, wait a second, this is why we're going to give away Derrick White, Maybe because it impacts their fans, but if it was just like, hey, you get to keep your team as it is. Derrick White kind of gets screwed over. They're like, well, that's what a fan does for, like, Chris, if you found out that this collusion story is what stopped the Dolphins from having, like, a great backup quarterback as opposed to Skyler Diggins or whatever the kid's name was.

[Amin Elhassan]

Skyler Thompson.

[Chris Cote]

There you go. Same thing, right? Like, you would care immensely about this, but because it has nothing to do with the impact on your team is just like, oh, that's cool. I'm informed. But like, But Zaz, what do you.

[Billy]

Think is right here when it comes to. I know we can't speak for all of fandom on this, but don't you believe that today's fan craves more information than any fan before?

[Jeremy]

Not necessarily. And especially not with, like, this story. Me, as a fan, I don't care about this story because if anything, this story, if there is collusion, which it seems that there was, because it sounds like it helps my team get more players. It sounds like my. Helps my team build a better roster. I dara, I hope the owners collude like. Like, as a fan, that's where I'm coming from. So, like, I. I don't care.

[Mike Ryan]

When it comes to the labor, it doesn't really matter because people care less and less about individual rich people as well.

[Amin Elhassan]

Right.

[Mike Ryan]

So if you're talking about the repeater tax, I am sure there are Celtics fans that are frustrated that the reason that they're breaking up their core doesn't really have anything to do with basketball reasons. It has more to do. But it does now in a way that it. It would have not in the same way going into this off season had Tatum not gotten hurt. But when you look at. At collusion and all of these other parts of it, you really have a bunch of people with a lack of empathy. Even if they have the information, why would they be empathetic over the fact that this person who's making $500,000 more than them is maybe making $10,000 less?

[Jeremy]

Let the record show I like collusion.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah. Pro collusion. If it benefits us. Do we still get Black Friday games? Do we still get Christmas Day games? Are the Chiefs still in Buffalo on week nine? I don't care about taxes. Talk to me about taxes.

[Amin Elhassan]

April 15, they should change the saying to close only counts. And hand grenades. What is it?

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, horseshoes.

[Amin Elhassan]

Hand grenades. And cos horseshoes earlier.

[Stugotz]

And he said it right.

[Dan Le Batard]

Stumbling. You know what they say? Counted hand grenades Horseshoes, hand grenades and collusion.

[Chris Cote]

And Chris analogies don't leave Jeremy. The. The other reason beyond, like, repeater taxes. Oh, it's a lot of money for rich people. Oh, if Tatum was healthy, it'll be fine. It's not that. It's because they start taking first round picks away from you.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, you have to get underneath.

[Chris Cote]

Even if Tatum was healthy, there's a high likelihood that they were gonna make hard decisions.

[Mike Ryan]

You're right. It's more the idea that there would be a frustration over the rule, not even necessarily at the owners. There'd be a frustration amongst the fan base over why does this rule exist.

[Billy]

All right, but let me ask you. Because this would be disappointing to me, but I guess not surprising. Do any of you care if Florio's accusation is accurate? It that league partners are either downplaying the story or ignoring it? Do any of you care about that in the abstract, or if it doesn't affect your team, you just don't care? It's not a story.

[Jeremy]

Right. I guess I would flip it back on you. Why do I care?

[Billy]

Yeah, I thought people cared when rich people got caught doing dirty shit with power.

[Jeremy]

Yeah, but it's about my entertainment. Like, it's not like. Like it's not like rich people who are in the oil business. It's rich people who control my team, which gives me entertainment and joy.

[Chris Cote]

What country do you live in?

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah.

[Stugotz]

You thought, what, since the dawn of time, people have been abusing power football.

[Dan Le Batard]

Who cares? Is that. That's serious.

[Billy]

I just thought that generally speaking, a story about something that is a rich person shame with corruption around power is a story that's going to get clicks. You're not going to make me sound like the asshole, like, I've got this wrong.

[Dan Le Batard]

Do you not think that, like, Brown's fans are hoping that their ownership group can find. Find any way possible to screw DeSean Watson out of that guaranteed money? Like, they are all hoping that there's collusion or something that can be done to get out of that so they can make their.

[Billy]

Do you realize that the reason that this happened is because it was two days after Deshaun Watson? These rich people can't control themselves. And so what do they do? They try to cheat in order to control prices because they can't control themselves. It came. It came two days after Deshaun Watson. You got Goodell getting with the owners and being like, hey, we can't be doing this. Are you guys crazy?

[Jeremy]

And then, well, and then what's the result? Of that right there happening. The result is my team spends less and they get more good players.

[Chris Cote]

That's like Zaz is right on the nose.

[Billy]

Okay?

[Chris Cote]

All of that stuff doesn't matter if it like that's as American as apple pie. Wait, does it benefit me? Yeah, I don't give a shit. Like that's, that's all people care.

[Amin Elhassan]

That's all it is. Horseshoes and hand grenades. Inclusion.

[Dan Le Batard]

As bad as it sounds like, you're acting like we've thought of football players as people and not just as my team that's going to get better. Like, and I'm thinking about long term futures and oh well, what is this player going to do with less guaranteed money 15 years from now when they're no longer playing football. Fifteen years from now, I'm going to be worried about who they're drafting in the draft this year.

[Chris Cote]

People complain all the time about NBA players. I can't believe this guy makes more than that NFL player. You think these people care about the well being and the financial health of these guys? They don't care, man.

[Billy]

You guys ask these questions of me as if my Entire mantra for 20 years hasn't been true. Treat these people as human beings. You guys are asking questions.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, but you're on the back end of the bell curve now, Dan. Like in the first 10 years of your career, things were ascending in this country toward that direction of people caring about others. And in the last 10 years, what happened last, it's completely dropped off the other side of it. And so now the more we see power and corruption and all of that constantly, every single day in the news at the very top levels of the country. Why would we care about that in the NFL?

[Chris Cote]

It was the Marriott Star Wars I care about.

[Mike Ryan]

That's what it was.

[Dan Le Batard]

I care about people, but I also care about winning playoff games.

[Billy]

Put it on the poll batard show please. What do you care more about? People or winning a playoff game at this point?

[Dan Le Batard]

One landslide. What I would do for one. What a silly poll you are talking.

[Billy]

About empathy and treating them as people. I don't know if what you guys saw what happened with the Arizona Diamondbacks last night where their second baseman Marte was heckled from the stands about his late mother who died in a car accident in 2017 and just immediately started sobbing.

[Chris Cote]

Doesn't he play for the D backs? Was that a home game?

[Dan Le Batard]

Some game?

[Jeremy]

No, I think it was okay.

[Billy]

That's the question that you're asking though. Like that that's would have been weird at Home. But that's the first question that you have is, was it a home game or a road game? When I tell you a player was heckle in a way that made him start sobbing on the field. The fan was ejected, and everything that happened after that was very paternal around him. It was a nice moment of humanity from the Diamondbacks, who had to feel kind of alone, surrounded by people who don't think they're human beings. They're just uniforms running around.

[Jeremy]

Yeah. Tory Lovella went out there, and he was consoling. I wonder, like, did the umpire at one point go, hey, we got. We got to speed this thing up.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, pitch clock. That's an automatic ball. Yeah.

[Jeremy]

Two people.

[Dan Le Batard]

You look, guy starts, and then all of a sudden, there's runners on first and second. Like, wait, hold on.

[Chris Cote]

Blue.

[Dan Le Batard]

The bases were empty. It's like, well, pitch clock. You know, two walks have happened now because it's taken so long. Happened in Chicago. So that person may be the Pope soon.

[Billy]

So if you're wondering at home why we don't talk about baseball, we're talking.

[Dan Le Batard]

About baseball right now. You get more of this tonight. Yeah, but during the NBA draft, as.

[Billy]

I'm asking for empathy, and you end up talking. Talking about the Pope.

[Dan Le Batard]

He's a White Sox fan. Noted White Sox fan. Have you not seen the video? He goes around Vatican City, or whatever it's called, and people are chanting white socks at him. He chants white socks back, puts on a white socks.

[Chris Cote]

Is he wearing a White Sox?

[Dan Le Batard]

He's worn a white sock before. Yeah.

[Chris Cote]

No.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, this big, big moment with the baseball. Yeah, with the robe. He went on. He put it on.

[Stugotz]

What do you mean, respect? No, respect the game.

[Dan Le Batard]

Why would you prefer he wore, like, one of the papal hat, Like a big pope hat and then logo in the middle of it. They should. They should actually have the White Sox. I'm not in charge of marketing. They should have a Pope day where they give out the big papal hat with a white socks logo on it. They should do that, right? That'd be Dan. That'd be awesome Dan. Now it's. It's made worse if that person is then heckling players about their deceased parents while wearing the papal hat. You don't want that. That's a bad look. That's where you disassociate yourself. Also, I'm gonna go on the record and say to far shouldn't heckle people about their dad.

[Chris Cote]

I thought you meant the hat.

[Dan Le Batard]

Too far. No, the hat's in fair play. That's too far.

[Billy]

I give you guys a story about a guy sobbing on the field and the first question is home game or road game? And we end on the pope and a white socks cat.

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[Mike Ryan]

This show is sponsored by Gametime, the official ticketing partner of the Dan LeBatard show with Stugotz. And folks, let's be real.

[Billy]

Real.

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