Local Hour: The Ever-Inflammatory Dan Le Batard

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Episode: Local Hour: The Ever-Inflammatory Dan Le Batard
Date: March 2, 2026
Focus: South Florida Sports, Heat Culture, Inter Miami, Coaching Generational Gaps

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Episode Overview

Live from the Elser Hotel in Downtown Miami, Dan, Stugotz, and the crew dive into the ever-contentious state of South Florida sports with signature irreverence and candor. The episode weaves through topics like pets in the workplace, Miami Heat’s identity crisis, Inter Miami’s White House visit, coaching generational divide, front office accountability, and the legacy of Heat greats, all while skewering each other in classic Le Batard Show style.

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Key Topics & Segments

1. Dogs (and Drama) in the Workplace

[00:00 – 02:42]

• Dan opens with a light controversy: He asks for honesty about Trista’s dog Ollie being in the studio.
• The crew jokes about office pets — “I like my dogs, I guess. But I like my dogs.” (Mike, 00:20)
• Amin is cited as the main anti-dog complainer.
• Juju compares Dan’s personality to the “girl smiling in front of a burning house” meme, implying Dan stirs up drama:
  • “You're like that little girl where she's smiling and the whole house is on fire behind her. That’s you.” (Juju, 01:49)
• The segment sets the playful, provocative tone.

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2. Dan’s Rapid-Fire Recap (and Over-the-Top News Juxtaposition)

[02:50 – 03:59]

• Having missed a week, Dan sarcastically rattles off a list of real and exaggerated sports/political “catastrophes,” mixing everything from global conflict to local sports woes:
  • “We’re at war with Iran. Stephen Hawking is in the Epstein files. US Hockey has given up all of its goodwill. Ruben Bane’s arms are too short. Tyler Van Dyke’s career is over…” (Dan, 02:50)
• The crew mocks the equivalence of these “stories.”

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3. Miami Heat Talk: Identity, Dissension, and Development

[03:59 – 14:44]

a. The Generational Divide: Coaching Young Stars

[04:39 – 11:46]

• Bam Adebayo’s comments on Khalil Ware not listening to Spoelstra:
  • “He doesn’t listen to Spo. He listens to me.” (Dan referencing Bam, 07:27)
• Juju argues SPO needs to adapt his method for younger players, while Dan defends the Heat culture’s resistance to change.
• SPO’s philosophy: “I do not care if the players like me. It’s no part of my job description.” (Dan on SPO, 08:14)
• Mike, Zaz, and Trista debate whether this dynamic reflects poorly on player or coach.
• Juju: “At a certain point you have to change the way you coach. If somebody is tuning you out and it’s a talent… it behooves SPO to adapt.” (Juju, 09:46)
• Dan draws a parallel to executives adapting to Gen Z at work: “Best executives say: ‘I know things have changed… just don’t be on your phone in this one meeting, I’ll give you a little leeway.’”

b. On- and Off-Court Results

[12:09 – 14:14]

• The group debates whether internal Heat confidence in their roster is justified, as evidenced by their continual belief they’re “better than their record.”
• Tristan: “No doubt they believe in themselves… it will play out the way it has recently, in which they’re wrong about the roster construction.” (13:50)
• Juju sums up the Heat’s repetitive cycle: “Rinse, repeat.”

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4. The “Heat Cycle”: Roster Reality, Hope, and the Whale

[15:56 – 27:06]

a. Update on Heat Optimism and Play-In Purgatory

[15:56 – 22:31]

• Zaz bounces back and forth between optimism and cynicism, caught up in every small win and loss:
  • “Don’t let the Heat win two in a row or I’m going to be really annoyed. And then they did.” (Zaz, 40:10)
• Juju: “That’s what the Miami Heat should say about the play-in tournament.”
• There’s a running joke about misusing stats (pace vs. efficiency):
  • “When you say they’re number one in points scored and you’re using that bogus stat… you know better.” (Dan to Zaz, 25:49)
• Tristan and Dan both note—despite the rhetorical fights—no one ever publicly calls for Spoelstra’s or Riley’s jobs, unlike every other Miami team.

b. Holding the Front Office Accountable

[28:48 – 32:07]

• Tristan: “Usually, if a team is stuck in mediocrity...we’d be calling for the manager’s or GM’s head. That conversation never surrounds the Miami Heat, ever.” (28:48)
• Dan’s analogy: only Don Shula in Miami had comparable immunity, and only lost it when Jimmy Johnson was available.
• Debate: Is it possible for anyone (even now), to remove Riley or SPO from power?
  • “Can you imagine Nick Harrison, former ball boy, firing Pat Riley?” (Dan, 32:22)

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5. Legacy and Standards: Measuring Success in Miami

[32:07 – 41:00]

a. Final Appearances or First-Round Exits: What’s a Failure?

[32:35 – 36:24]

• Dan resists the notion that two Finals appearances in six years are a “failure” despite no recent championship:
  • “I’m not going to say two finals appearances in six years is a failure. When’s the last time Sacramento was in the finals?” (Dan, 34:04)
• Tristan: “Even your shiny finals appearance was born out of the play-in; the standard is 10th.” (34:23)
• Juju and Tristan minimize the accomplishment, especially given how overmatched the Heat were in those Finals:
  • “Also, they never had a shot in either one of these finals.” (Juju, 35:58)

b. Chris Bosh’s Legacy

[37:21 – 39:52]

• Dan posits that if Chris Bosh hadn’t had his career cut short for medical reasons, he’d have been the best player on the team—possibly even better than Jimmy Butler or Bam Adebayo.
  • “He would have been better than Jimmy Butler. I think he’s a better player than Jimmy Butler is.” (Dan, 38:19)
• Mike and others place Bosh in Heat’s all-time top six or seven, but generally behind Wade, LeBron, Alonzo Mourning.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Quote | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------| | 01:49 | Juju: “You’re like that little girl where she’s smiling and the whole house is on fire behind her. That’s you.” | | 07:27 | Dan (on Bam): “He doesn’t listen to Spo. He listens to me.” | | 08:14 | Dan (on SPO): “I do not care if the players like me. It’s no part of my job description.” | | 09:46 | Juju: “It behooves SPO to adapt to get the best out of your talent.” | | 13:50 | Tristan: “No doubt that the Miami Heat believe in themselves… will play out the way it always does, in which they're wrong…” | | 28:48 | Tristan: “I do find them such a challenge locally because the top line of this franchise, totally off-limits in terms of accountability.” | | 34:04 | Dan: “I’m not going to say two finals appearances in six years is a failure. When’s the last time Sacramento was in the finals?” | | 38:19 | Dan: “He [Bosh] would have been better than Jimmy Butler. I think he’s a better player than Jimmy Butler is.” |

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Episode Flow & Takeaways

• Camaraderie and Chaos: The episode’s relaxed, familial chaos gives it energy—no one is safe from jokes or earnest critique.
• Miami Heat as Metaphor: The ongoing debate over “Heat Culture” stands for generational tension, inertia, and nostalgia in South Florida sports.
• Circular Optimism: Despite cycles of roster disappointment and “plan for the Whale," the Heat receive deference no other local team enjoys.
• Front Office Teflon: Pat Riley and Erik Spoelstra remain nearly bulletproof from local media/fan criticism—unique in Miami sports history.
• Legacy vs. Current Reality: The crew wrestles with defining success: Is consistency and relevance enough? Or is it “winning or misery,” as Riley would say?

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:00] — Dogs in the workplace; Dan as agent of chaos
• [02:50] — Week-in-review: exaggerated news rundown
• [03:59] — Miami Heat drama: generational coaching, Bam/Ware/SPO dynamic
• [11:00] — Front office confidence vs. on-court results
• [13:50] — Heat’s self-belief and cycle of missed “Whales”
• [15:56] — The myth of Heat culture and accountability, compared to other local teams
• [32:35] — Defining failure—Finals appearances, play-in status, and standards
• [37:21] — Chris Bosh’s legacy and alternate timeline
• [41:00] — Closing with more roster numbers debates and playful stats gotchas

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Tone & Style

• Irreverent, self-aware, occasionally exasperated.
• Constant friendly sniping, willingness to question the franchise—just not its holy cows.
• Blends in-depth sports analysis with pop-culture humor, inside jokes, and Miami-specific perspective.

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This episode is a must-listen for fans wrestling with what “success” truly means for their teams—especially if you love hearing the Heat’s strengths, weaknesses, and place in Miami lore debated with both humor and depth.

Transcript

[Dan LeBatard]

Can I get an honest appraisal from all people involved?

[Jeremy]

On.

[Dan LeBatard]

And no sugarcoating. How does everyone feel about Trista's dog Ollie being here? Pretty non obtrusive, like, compared to all the other dogs.

[Tristan]

Couldn't wait a second before you started some shit?

[Mike]

I mean, I. I like dogs, I guess, but I like my dogs. Yeah.

[Dan LeBatard]

So you. I feel. I feel that way when people show you pictures of their kids. I feel like that's how people feel about kids. They like their kids. They don't want to hear your stories about your kids. But I tend to love all dogs, especially dogs, though, that are this non obtrusive. I'm the one who allowed the dogs in the office, and there have only been a couple of complaints. It's Amin mostly right. Ameen is the one who complains the most about Dr. Dogs in the workplace, and he believes it makes it a hostile work environment for him. But what is the appraisal from everyone here? Does anyone. Do we know if anyone here has any objections that they have shared about Ali? Because Ali seems lovely.

[Tristan]

Your first words, I mean, it's remarkable.

[Mike]

Oh, my God.

[Tristan]

Your first words. Trying to get people in the office

[Zaz]

and I was worried you might miss a step coming back. We have a guest in this week, Trista. It's like someone say something bad about Tristan.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm not saying for anyone to say

[Tristan]

anything with the dog climbing all over you before the show. Do you like that? That's weird, right?

[Dan LeBatard]

Not what I said. I didn't say any of that. You guys are putting all these words in my mouth. I'm pretty good with words. The words that come out of my mouth, I'm generally aware of what they are, what they should be.

[Juju]

Are you an inflammatory guy by nature?

[Tristan]

Yes. I mean, look at him.

[Dan LeBatard]

I just want.

[Tristan]

He's inflamed.

[Dan LeBatard]

I just want honesty. I want honesty in the workplace.

[Juju]

You're like that little girl where she's smiling and the whole. Whole house is on fire behind her. That's you.

[Dan LeBatard]

Juju always gives it to me straight. Juju. What is the appraisal here? Have you heard anything? What kind of feelings have you gotten from the room in general about the appearance of Ollie the dog?

[Tristan]

Silence works typically in an audio format.

[Zaz]

In Jew's defense, he put on. He pressed on.

[Tristan]

But is the fader down? That's usually where I would look first if they. If someone speaks and the microphone's on and the fader's down on the board, it's probably. No. You look like you're you look like you're all over it. All right, the fader's up.

[Dan LeBatard]

All right, good. Good start.

[Juju]

So Juju's not gonna be able to speak for the whole show or what?

[Stugats]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats podcast.

[Dan LeBatard]

So I go away for a few minutes and we're. We're at war with Iran. Stephen Hawking is in the Epstein files with photographs. The US Hockey team has given up all of its goodwill in five minutes. Ruben Bane's arms are too short. Tyler Van Dyke's career is over as a quarterback. What else did I miss? What else do you guys have? For me, that. That changed while I was gone for a week.

[Mike]

You were gone for a week? Are you just going to list everything? Like, things happen?

[Dan LeBatard]

I know things happen, but these are some substantive things that have happened. I appreciate the appraisal that things happen, but I didn't have Ruben Bane's arms being too short. Like, they were the same size. They were the same size all of last season, is what I'm saying. I saw him in the backfield all the time with those short arms, and they didn't get any shorter.

[Tristan]

You wouldn't put them as too short, but you would put them in the same tier as. That's as big a story as war with Iran.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yeah, all of that is in the same class of stuff. I put all of that in the same place, especially Tyler Van Dyke's career being over. He went straight to coach. When I saw SMU gets new assistant, former University of Miami quarterback, I thought it was Ken Dorsey. Like, I didn't think it was going to be Tyler Van Dyke.

[Tristan]

They actually have Derek King on staff as well over there, too. Yeah, Tyler started a game for Wisconsin against Alabama, was actually moving the ball quite well against him in his first drive, and then he just totally tore up his knee. And you thought, okay, this will be the standard ACL thing. And then photos came out of his knee in recovery, and it looked jacked up. Like, I know they usually say Tyler Van Dyke had a successful surgery. This. I mean, his knee looked bad. There were photos of him smoking cigars from the SMU locker room after they had defeated Miami last year. And it looked pretty jarring. So I'm not surprised that his career is over. He was basically on the staff as a coach in uniform for them.

[Dan LeBatard]

I imagine you guys talk plenty about everything that happened with the US Hockey team. But how are you guys feeling about Inter Miami going to the White House? Because now Inter Miami is going to do that right. Lionel Messi gets knocked on the court or on the pitch, I should say, in Puerto Rico. And now they're headed these things, these things cannot be done quietly anymore. They're not just photo ops anymore. It's side taking now is what it is, where it is that we've. For the US Olympic hockey team to do something it hasn't done in nearly half a century. And I remember what it was like the last time they did it. And to give the goodwill away that quickly, it's rare that I've ever seen a sports team of any kind do that, give away that kind of goodwill. The best goodwill, patriotism. It's the easiest goodwill in sports. The easiest. Everybody, no matter how they feel about the flag, they can wrap themselves in it because something silly happens in sport. Now Inter Miami, your champion here. Locally you've got. Locally you've got. The Panthers are finished. That's a quiet end to a two time championship reign. The Heat are arguing with former legends. Dwayne and Bam are arguing about whether they are or aren't a play in team.

[Juju]

They are.

[Dan LeBatard]

Thank you, Tristan. Technically, for now they are and they have been the last couple of seasons. But they're, they're. Dwayne and Bam are arguing about it. Bam is saying that Khalil Ware doesn't listen to spo, but he does listen to me. That's something that just happened. That's strange, is it not? Do you guys want to see Ware playing with Bam? Like they, if, if Ware doesn't play, they're not very good.

[Mike]

Like, statistically, I like the idea of Ware playing next to Bam, especially when Bam comes out and says that Ware listens to him. So I like that dynamic. If Bam is supposed to be a leader, he is the captain. I like the idea that they're next to each other if Ware listens to him. Also, I saw Barry Jackson put out this number a couple days ago that when Keller Ware plays less than 15 minutes a game, the Heat at least at that point were 1 and 9 on the season.

[Dan LeBatard]

My God, I thought it was worse than that. I thought it was like 1 in 15. But let's get Bam. I thought this was interesting from Bam. I also, I was surprised by it, right, Because Bam, Bam is being unfiltered honest here. I don't generally find Bam to be that interesting, but I thought all of this was hugely interesting. He usually doesn't say publicly interesting things, but listen to what he has to say here about playing with Khalil Ware.

[Jeremy]

But he wants to Learn. He wants to figure it out. And, you know, for spo, man, you just got to give him the opportunity to make mistakes. Now, sometimes the mistakes be crazy, but as you can see, he's a talent, man. He can get a double double with his eyes closed. And when you have that type of talent and he's activated, you know, he doesn't do anything but help our defense, help our offense, and big fella can make plays.

[Dan LeBatard]

He also said he doesn't listen to spo. He listens to me like that. That sound's not there, but I was surprised to hear that sound. I go to the workouts with him at 6am what is that saying out loud? I don't listen to SPO or he doesn't listen to spoiler. He listens.

[Mike]

I think it means that SPO is really tough on him, probably the same way that he was really tough on Bam, you know, seven, eight years ago.

[Juju]

Spo's been talking smack about Khalil where since summer league, Khalil's first summer league, and just burying him over and over and over again. At a certain point, I think talents need to be led in different ways, and SPO does not care. He is going to continue to give Khalil tough love. And Khalil went to Oregon, transferred out of there because he didn't want Dana Altman in his ear. So this is not new, I think, for Khalil.

[Dan LeBatard]

I remember the very first time, the very first time I ever spoke to SPO as the head coach. What he made clear right away is I do not care if the players like me. It's no part of my job description. Do the players like me. However, when I hear the leader of this team, for better or worse, that's the leader. It's not Tyler Herro. The leader on the court of this team is Bam Adebayo. We, when I hear him say flatly, young player doesn't listen to coach. I've never heard a Heat player say it about their coach, and I don't think that's good. Like, I don't. I don't think there's a way to frame any of what's happening between SPO and Khalil Ware. She could. She could file it under tough love. That's the most generous assessment. But if he's tuning out tough love, then it stops being Love, and it's just tough.

[Mike]

Is him not listening to spo? Is Bam saying that as something that. Like, does that make SPO look bad or does that make Ware look bad?

[Juju]

I think it makes SPO look bad, honestly, like, at a certain point you have to change the way that you coach. If somebody is tuning you out and it's a talent who is to the point where Bam is saying, like, this guy makes plays. Yeah, the mistakes he makes sometimes are crazy. But he's a young player, he's very talented, he has all the tools. He's a seven footer who can do all these different things. Like, it behooves SPO to adapt to a certain point if you want to get the best out of your talent. When he's listening to Bam Adebayo more than the coach, I think that's a bad sign.

[Dan LeBatard]

So this is an interesting thing that she's bringing up here because I have talked to people who are now in their 50s in charge of things, and they don't understand how the young people in meetings are always in their phones. The young people, when you're having meetings about important things, they have no reference point for these people who are 30 years younger than me, they're in their phones and their choices to either ban it and lose them or adapt. And I think most people listening this are probably saying SPO doesn't need to adapt. Khalil Ware needs to learn. The entire pressure of the entire system is falling on Khalil Ware to get better, no matter whether the environment is supportive or not. But the best executives I know say to their young people, hey, look, I understand that things have changed. I'm not going to do a hard and fast rule on your phones, but please, in these instances, please be paying attention. I need you to adhere to the general outline of some rules that I'm going to change a little bit for you. But I don't see why and how SPO would change. Why would he? There's nothing, there's nothing in the culture of what the Miami Heat are that would suggest to SPO that he has to change, except that they're just a play in team all the time. And he kind of needs that player to be great if the architecture of this team is going to be such that they're not going to get him better players.

[Unknown Speaker]

Right? First of all, spo, what have you done for me lately? Like, I don't see no rings on them fingers lately. At the same time, I think he should take the, the advice and the example from how Steve Kerr handled Kaminga, because Kaminga is good enough if you put him in the right system. As you see, he's good enough if you're willing to work with him. Your irresponsibility and just trying to work with. With the young gentleman, I think is kind of wrong way. If I was on spo, can't there

[Zaz]

be an argument made that they've handled him exactly right this season because he's gotten better and better and now the minutes alongside Bam are productive. Like, he was struggling so much defensively in those matchups with. He was shot block chasing. And now those times where they're out there together, over the last four or five games they played together, they're like plus 80 when they're on the floor together in limited minutes. So while I understand, like, Khalil has been frustrated, there's also an argument to be made that they have handled him the right way because he has only improved in the ways they've needed.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, he's not being handled the right way if he's not listening to his coach. If I've got Bam saying out loud, he's. He doesn't listen to spo.

[Zaz]

He said, I want big fella out there. I feel like he listens to me. And sometimes he kind of ignores spo. I've banked so much equity him throughout the summer, and then he later on says, like, I feel like he gets better when he's out there with me.

[Juju]

There's a semantics here.

[Mike]

Yeah, right. Like, well, but I think I'm gonna take the opposite side of the semantics. Then. Then it sounds like you are. I. It feels a little bit like a throwaway line, to be perfectly honest. What Bam is saying there. Like, does he not listen to his coach sometimes? It definitely. Like, I think it's why he slipped in the draft and he's such an incredible talent. Like, there was a reputation that he had when he was in school, and I don't even know the part that Trista just said about Oregon. Okay. So clearly there was a reputation with the player. Kind of feels a little bit like a throwaway line from Bam.

[Dan LeBatard]

He's never offered that in the way of a throwaway line before. And I've never heard someone say that about someone who's coaching the Heat before. Like, never mind. Going back to Kevin Lockery, I've never heard it say, I sometimes ignores the coach, especially a player who's sitting there fighting for minutes.

[Mike]

Well, but I think while maybe it wasn't said out loud, I think we can all agree Hassan Whiteside was likely not listening to SPO all the time.

[Dan LeBatard]

Okay. And Bam didn't say so.

[Mike]

Right. Well, but maybe he's got more.

[Dan LeBatard]

It was understood. It was understood. Yeah, we all understood that he wasn't listening to Spo. I want to get Mike's reaction to this Barry Jackson tweet right here. SPO said recently the Heat is simply better than its record. Riley said the Cavs playoff series isn't reflective of what this roster years for what this roster is for several years, Kiheed people have felt the roster is superior to the record. One reason they've stuck with it wins like this against Houston in this season vs. OKC Denver 2 vs. The Knicks vs. Detroit Fuel the continued internal belief in this roster.

[Tristan]

I have no doubt that the Miami Heat believe in themselves no doubt whatsoever. And I have no doubt that it will play out the way that it has recently in which they're wrong about the roster construction and they'll they'll try to get an impact player outside of the lottery and will swing for the fences yet again in the off season. And hopefully this time, like we've been saying far too often recently, hopefully this time they'll get it right.

[Juju]

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[Tristan]

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[Stugats]

Don LeBatard. All these high paid analysts, I don't want to mention names. Tnt, espn, you know. Oh, yeah, they are dead. They cannot. They're not going to make it. You know, even if they win in, if they lose in Miami.

[Dan LeBatard]

I need to calm you down. I need to calm down.

[Zaz]

That's right.

[Stugats]

They lose in Miami, they don't get a chance in Boston or they are going to have their ass. You know what? In Boston, you know, stugats. They were wrong. Are they going to lose their job?

[Mike]

No.

[Stugats]

Are they going to get a cutting page? No. What are they going to do?

[Mike]

Keep predicting.

[Stugats]

What is the obvious. They are going to say, oh, the Nuggets are going to win. Oh, Denver, the attitude. And you know what? The Heat are going to win at all. This is the Dan Lebatar show with the Stugach.

[Mike]

See, that's the kind of stuff that bothers me is that, you know, sourced quote. Because, man, back in the day, the Heat have a bad loss team looks like it's not a championship caliber team. And Pat Riley goes in his office, he trades everybody. It's like, this is not acceptable. Okay? And now it's, nah. For the fourth year in a row, we're gonna be a playing team. But we think we're better than our record is. Like, that's, that's not. That's not Pat Riley.

[Juju]

That's an old man getting soft in his old years.

[Mike]

What happened?

[Tristan]

I'm just listening to like some of the same stuff that we're never really talking about, man. Khloe Ware was outstanding last night. Usually all our color Ware conversations are like, hopefully this guy can put it together. That's, that's how I know about Khalil Warrior, because I haven't really watched much of him because I'm not watching much Miami basketball these days because I don't think the team's got a chance at all.

[Dan LeBatard]

Everyone can see it though, Mike, when he's out there, everyone can see both sides of it, the extremes that he's a unicorn athletically and he does a lot of dumb stuff, right?

[Juju]

Well, that's Kaminga. That's the same situation as juju was saying about Kaminga. And now we see him thriving in his role where you've got Dominique Wilkins screaming on the broadcast like, thank you, warriors, for gifting us this unique talent. And I'm going to tell you This. I wouldn't be surprised that this happened with Cleo Ware and he thrives somewhere else.

[Tristan]

I'm surprised it didn't happen, which is. I hear this. I'm like, that should have been Phoenix's problem. It should have been Milwaukee's problem. It's not. I mean, Eric Spoelstra is one of the greatest coaches of all time when it comes to Khalil Ware. I'll side with him on how to manage this talent.

[Mike]

You look back at this and wish that they traded Ware for Durant.

[Dan LeBatard]

Yes.

[Tristan]

Yes, I do. I mean, I was. I was saying that. Yeah, I'm not as bullish on where I understand why. There are aspects to his game that you're like, man, if this guy can put it all together. But there are guys like that in the league. Look, if there was ever an instance for Miami to kind of change its ways and adapt to a certain talent, that. Michael Beasley had a lot of tools. Michael Beasley is a tremendous scorer. They had him number two. They did the rare thing where they try to lose intentionally for a shot at him, and they capitulated on that, too. So I don't. I don't see, like, Khalil Ware's, like, ceiling being, like that kind of level. I just thought he would be a piece, and I wish that they would develop him a little bit more and quite honestly, maybe stop dragging his name through the mud so his value can kind of stay high. Because, like, look, you psych Kaminga. There wasn't much of a market for him, and the player had talent, and he probably should have fetched more than what he got, given what we've seen recently, and he didn't, because they mismanaged that, just like the Miami Heat recently mismanaged the Jimmy Butler situation. So my trust in them to be able to maximize the assets that they do have on the roster is kind of waning.

[Dan LeBatard]

Let me ask you this, though, as it relates to the things that Zaz is pointing out about Pat Riley and his age. And what we're talking about is the generational, multi. Generational gulf between Pat Riley and players who are 20 years old and SPO and players who are 20 years old, because SPO doesn't get to be the young person anymore. The leaders of this team are young people. It's not Khalil Ware young. But does Tyler Herro look to you in any way like something that represents Pat Riley? Is there anything that Tyler Herro is giving off to you that suggests to you that Pat Riley understands load management? And understands players not playing all 82 games. And it's just looking at Tyler Herro and saying, yeah, that looks like Magic and Kareem to me.

[Stugats]

That.

[Dan LeBatard]

That looks like Larry Bird to me. Let's listen to Tyler Herro here talking about the back and forth with. With Kevin Durant, where they were just calling each other names during the game,

[Tristan]

nothing crazy.

[Jeremy]

I know Kev a little bit. He's competing. You know, I feel like as a team, we didn't have an edge to us in Milwaukee or Philly, so I was just trying to bring a little edge to it. I mean, we won, the team responded. So we were down 14 to 4 at the time, I believe. Was able to just get some fire going. Feel like we're at our best when we got guys in here that are on edge.

[Dan LeBatard]

I think that stuff that you have to say 60 games into a season, that you're going to win some of these home games when Houston is tired and traveling all over the place. Oh, Jeremy. Yes. Give me faces. After you said you were going to sit it out after there are two losses, and now you've got a lot of opinions.

[Mike]

You know you did last week.

[Zaz]

Yeah, I know what I did, and I lied. I lied. This team is number one in the Eastern points per game. They're number one in the east in defensive rating. They're number one in the east in rebounding. Aren't they better because you have been able to spread out the minutes between Kolaware and Bam at a bio now while the two guys play together, you're playing really well, which unlocks a different level of ceiling for these guys because you have Bam Rome on the wing. You have Andrew Wiggins playing the best season of his entire career, and he was locked down over that stretch on Saturday. This team has potential to be better than what their record says there is, and I think it would be wrong to just dismiss it because we're talking about quotes from SPO on Bam from a month on Khalil from a month ago, rather than what he's been talking about lately, which is that effort is there. The going and getting rebounds is there. Playing on the defensive end and having awareness and communicating in the zone is there. This team is playing better, okay?

[Mike]

But potential to be better than their record is. What does that even mean? So they're going to face Detroit in the first round of the playoffs. How do you think that's going to go?

[Juju]

They're going to get smacked. That's what I told Jeremy before we started this show. And by the way, Detroit has the number one defensive rating in the east, not Miami. Second, not Miami Heat, but it's a rating off. I just want to be accurate because Jeremy is an accuracy guy.

[Zaz]

He says things.

[Juju]

So I just don't think that this means anything. You take the Heat who are basically the play in team. You know, talk about Draymond is like, oh, it's the Golden State Warriors Invitational. That's what the Miami Heat should say about the play in tournament.

[Unknown Speaker]

And you'd also know the thing about the old days is them the old days, bruh. Welcome to the new century. Back to you, Dan.

[Dan LeBatard]

Thank you, Juju. In this new century, I didn't realize that there is an ability to unlock a new level of ceiling.

[Zaz]

Is there multiple stories in this house?

[Dan LeBatard]

I want to. I want to. I want to explore this a little bit.

[Zaz]

The ceiling when Khalil Ware doesn't play alongside Bam is different than the ceiling when he does play alongside Bam. I don't think that that's a crazy thing to say.

[Dan LeBatard]

It's not a crazy thing to say, but you know what's crazy is we all think and spoke keep saying, nah. Like, that's. That part. That part is a little confusing to me. We're all like, yeah, this seems easy. Why don't they do this? In the last two regular season games where they play together, they outscore people by 66 when those two giant people are out there together. But the coach keeps saying, nah, I'm good. I'm all right. I want to keep motivating him to be better. I think that part's weird. I think we're not going to trade him under any circumstances, but also not gonna play him very much. It's like, what are we doing? How is it possible that I'm sitting here, okay, and I'm listening to Tristan Juju say, yes, spo's got it wrong. SPO knows less than us. And I'm like, I don't think that's right. I think he's got more information than we do, and I think he probably knows a little bit about what he's doing. And I think maybe we have. Maybe there's something here we're not understanding.

[Tristan]

Is Khalil Ware worth any of this? And I include the 20 minutes we've discussed.

[Dan LeBatard]

They could have had Kevin Durant for him and decided not to trade for Kevin Durant because wanted to keep him. So they think so, but they don't play him.

[Tristan]

Right. So clear. Clearly they were wrong about that. In the off season, which Means that that goes back to the original point. It's not even like the superstars that they're missing out on. It's guys that can help your roster and just dig yourself out of this weird purgatory that Miami finds itself in. They'll play hard. There'll be a couple moments in the season where Jeremy thinks we can win the east and we'll get into the play in and, hell, we might even get into the playoffs. And then what happened last year? They got swept in historic fashion in the biggest beatdown in NBA first round history. And I think that's kind of. I think that's kind of their fate here. We know that they're not good enough. We know that they're not going to be bad enough. And we're just going to keep with this plan and hopefully we can get the Whale in the off season. Rinse, repeat.

[Dan LeBatard]

What I remember about the last postseason is that that is where Zaz got a job with us. Because it started not with the historic beat down by Cleveland. That represents a beat down than any that there's been in the playoffs. And the last one was by 60. I think the last game, they lost by 60 and just started their vacation. But right before that, they beat Atlanta in a game that ended up with Zaz securing this particular job and Pearl Jam tickets. But the thing that I want to get to that Jeremy just did there. And I don't know if he's trying to trick me or he's trying to trick himself. I don't know what he's doing. Because it's one thing to say last week after they lose two in a row, that he's not talking about him anymore. And then they beat Houston at home, and he's like, they're.

[Zaz]

They're.

[Dan LeBatard]

They're back in.

[Tristan]

Yeah, that's right.

[Dan LeBatard]

No, but this is what I want to know. When you say, because Trista corrected you on the defensive rating, but when you say they're number one in points scored and you're using that bogus stat of points when their pace is faster than everyone and they're about 14, 15 or 16, and offensive efficiency, you know better about which number to use. Why are you using points instead of efficiency? Is it to trick me or is it to trick yourself?

[Zaz]

It's to trick you. And the pace being number one is maybe more noteworthy. Yeah, but I can't trust you on any stat now. That's what has changed to this team from last season.

[Mike]

What a liar. You've turned into number one in points,

[Zaz]

fifth in defensive rating. They know how to slow down. Overall, they know how to slow down. Other teams, they rebound as well as anybody in the conference. I'm just telling you, like those underlying numbers. When you ask why do they believe those things? That's why. Because you could see a team that's different in terms of what it was from last year. I'm not saying the result is going to be any different. They might lose in the first round, but it's a, a it's a different roster in terms of who's playing. It's a different structure in terms of the way that they play offense. It's a different team and everybody wanted this overhaul. They acquired an all star guard and they're playing things differently. It is what it is.

[Tristan]

It's a season two playoff race with TGL presented by SoFi Sunday at 9pm Eastern Jupiter Links versus Boston Common Golf Monday at 7pm Eastern Los Angeles Golf Club versus New York Golf Club Tuesday at 9pm Eastern the Bay Golf Club versus Jupiter Links. Keep up. It's Golf Watch on ESPN, ESPN2 and the ESPN app.

[Dan LeBatard]

Don LeBatard teammates can't shoot from three now. They're gonna see a different Jimmy now. He's just just playing nickelback in the locker room. And Stugats now play D and show threes as they chase the nets for the six seed. These five words in his head scream my way winning games yet this is

[Stugats]

the Dan Levata the Stugach.

[Dan LeBatard]

You say it is what it is but I think one of the things that always gets lost in the discussions about these teams going back to even LeBron, Dwayne and Bot Spo's whole thing is defense. It's not a offense. His whole thing is defense and bam. And where out there together harm them defensively and hero being out there with them harms them defensively like his. He doesn't care about anything else. He doesn't care if they go out there and they go over 243 as long as they're spacing the floor. Because all he cares about is are we playing hard defense because it's one of the only things he can control and make better than other teams. How hard are we playing on defense

[Tristan]

we've had in the history of this show stretches with very middling teams. Panthers perpetually five points out of the final playoff spot. Miami Hurricanes. Oh, this is going to be the year. And then they'll lose like three ACC games. Miami Dolphins, we've been doing that one for a couple of years and with all those teams Usually have the point to go. Including the Marlins. Whenever, like, they do their peaks and valleys thing, you could always go to the front office. Manager's got to go, GM's got to go. They got to shake things up. That conversation never surrounds the Miami Heat, ever. We are never saying anything like, has SPO losses touch? I mean, not being able to, like, develop and reach this young man. Usually that falls on a coach. Not. Not here, like you. You made the point. But no one's saying, like, well, should we consider shaking thing, shaking things up over here? Like, they keep telling us that they want to get a superstar. They keep. Keep failing. Should we get somebody in there that is good at this, that's better at this? Never a conversation around the Miami Heat. I understand why, but us as content creators, I do find them being such a challenge to talk about locally because the top line of this franchise, totally off limits in terms of holding accountable.

[Dan LeBatard]

There's only one other time I've seen it happen, and it's when Shula was doing all the winning. And none of this engulfed Shula until Jimmy Johnson's available. So unless you're going to show me future pop out there, unless you've got something out there where people are looking at it and saying, that's available. Oh, is Brad Stevens available? Can we get him? Like, unless you're saying there's a guy. The only time it ever happened to Shula was not only that Jimmy Johnson was available, but Jimmy Johnson was sitting there in the Keys saying, that's the job I want. I'd like to have that job. And then all of a sudden, you can turn it over. That's. In the history of South Florida sports. There's never this kind of stability. And I do think that Zaz and everyone in here would acknowledge that. While Juju and Trist comfortable saying, yes, spo's probably got this one wrong. Nobody's saying SPO should be fired. Like, no one's going to say that. There's. There's no one in this market who's going to say out loud, get this group of people out there.

[Unknown Speaker]

But there is an embarrassing moment, though, that I can point to. Chris and Jeremy attended the event. Pat Riley was like, I got the harpoons, I got the wings.

[Zaz]

Can't talk a big game like that.

[Dan LeBatard]

Watching the whale, I got a guy.

[Zaz]

I told him to get it, and he gets it, and he did.

[Dan LeBatard]

So it's just yours.

[Zaz]

A rough look.

[Dan LeBatard]

Your grandpa yammering.

[Zaz]

I mean, that was a Thanksgiving when he did that. That night, I was like that's either gonna age fantastically or horribly. And we see how it aged.

[Tristan]

I mean, look, usually to get drastic change in approach because we keep batting our head against the wall thinking that we're gonna expect something different. And look, maybe on the eighth time we bat our head against the wall, a Giannis Antetokounmpo will appear on this roster. But usually to get the kind of change that we kind of want to see, we have proven commodities here and I don't know if the answer lies in them. Now, I'm not saying fire SPO and I'm not saying Pat Riley. I think both those guys lifetime contracts here. I understand I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth a little bit. But inside that room, maybe Nick Harrison gets a little bit more power. Maybe we say, you know what? This isn't going to go the way that you want it. Well, what makes you think this isn't going to go the way that you want it? We're going to think different.

[Dan LeBatard]

What makes you think that's not already so Nick Garrison is Pat Riley's boss. That's not something that people know. But it's so. It's been so since the beginning.

[Tristan]

Well, the reason why I don't think it's so in that it's that we've just continued to tread water. I haven't seen the drastic thing that really surprises me out of this. In fact, every season for the last four seasons, I've been able to kind of accurately forecast how it's gonna go.

[Dan LeBatard]

Can you imagine Nick Harrison, former ball boy, firing Pat Riley? Like, could you imagine Pat Riley getting anything other than how he wants to go out, period?

[Tristan]

Well, I will respond to your with another question. Can you respond? Can you really wrap your head around Pat Riley ending his time down here with a six year whimper of not being able to deliver a superstar while he does the post season press conference and he goes up to Chris Cody saying, I got the harpoons. We've been doing this every year now and it's starting to sound borderline kooky when you keep failing.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, but this is the thing though. I just, I'm going to move off of this subject, but you saying six years of failure when there are two finals appearances in there is not six years of failure.

[Tristan]

We brokered a peace deal. You no longer get to mention the NBA Finals against the the Denver Nuggets. And I will not mention that Cooper flag was taken with our draft pick. Like, let's rule that that's been a wash because like, you can have that as an example of it working out. And I got a very shiny, more recent example of tank.

[Dan LeBatard]

I'm not going to ignore two finals appearances in six years when it's something that I can't even say I of Denver.

[Zaz]

Thank you.

[Dan LeBatard]

Who's got the best player in the world and they haven't been to two of them.

[Tristan]

You're welcome.

[Juju]

They have a championship.

[Tristan]

Yeah, they got the championship.

[Juju]

Miami does not.

[Tristan]

They got the championship. And you'd have ruled out. We've all like put the. The Dallas Mavericks in our rearview mirror. And they were at an NBA Finals far more recently.

[Dan LeBatard]

That might be Pat Riley's standard. You either win the championship or it's failure. It's not my standard. My ch. My standard is not. Second place is a failure. My standard is not. I'm better than all of the teams but one, and therefore I'm a failure.

[Tristan]

What is Pat Riley's standard? Standard?

[Dan LeBatard]

That's the standard. It's winning or misery. No, I just said that. That's Pat Riley's standard. He put it there for you. It's why it's your standard. It's not my standard. I'm not going to say two finals appearances in six years is a failure. When. When's the last time Sacramento was in the finals? When was the last time Atlanta. Atlanta was in the finals?

[Tristan]

It's funny that you mentioned the NBA Finals appearance because they also made that from a play in the standard here as it has been even with that finals run, has been play in. And that's okay.

[Dan LeBatard]

The last few years play in is where it has been. And I will grant you that it tricked them when they beat Giannis into believing it a little bit more. The same way that it tricked them the last year of Deion Waiters and Hassan Whiteside, that they went 33 and 13 down the stretch and then re signed Deion Waiters and Hasan Whiteside cuz they thought they had to run that back because they had a good second half of a season.

[Mike]

Too many gummies.

[Unknown Speaker]

If you're not first, you last. Dano, remember that.

[Dan LeBatard]

This is a bit exasperating to me because I would just ask the all of you, like seriously, if you finished second place competing against the world, would you feel like a failure? Like I know we do this around here. Bronze medal and silver medal, that's first and second loser. I know we do that around here. But if you finished second in the world at anything, would you be a failure?

[Mike]

Yes.

[Tristan]

Do you know how different the world Was when they finished second. They're not finishing second. Second. They're finishing tenth. What are we doing? Stop. Stop saying they're a runner up when they're 10th.

[Dan LeBatard]

You were saying this when they were second.

[Tristan]

No, but even when they finished second, they came out of 10th. The standard is 10th in the east.

[Dan LeBatard]

Oh, so now the regular season is the standard.

[Tristan]

Even your shiny finals appearance was born out of the play in the standard

[Dan LeBatard]

is 10th one of their shiny finals appearances.

[Juju]

Also, they never had a shot in either one of these finals. They were.

[Zaz]

And do not say that about the bubble.

[Mike]

Yeah, that is not true.

[Juju]

Are we gonna just say, oh, because Goran Dragish's ankle

[Mike]

and it was. And we were a game away from a game away. All right, okay.

[Tristan]

But it was also.

[Juju]

What about the Denver series?

[Tristan]

Kind of funky. It's also kind of funky.

[Mike]

He were ahead with under with under

[Dan LeBatard]

a minute to play.

[Mike]

Game five on the road. We were coming back to Miami for Game 6.

[Tristan]

Fool's Gold is a thing.

[Dan LeBatard]

Thing.

[Tristan]

Fool's gold is a thing in sports.

[Mike]

Just got a box out Bruce Brown one time.

[Tristan]

I bet you the Cincinnati Bengals thought that they were going to be running stuff in the afc. Things happen.

[Dan LeBatard]

The Patriots feel today like a failure. They're not.

[Tristan]

I kill for that roster construction. A superstar that I know is going to keep me relevant for 10 years and get me one of those lottery tickets. Yeah, this is not the Patriots. It's a Patriots in that they used to be a regular part of the conversation. Patriots went away. They got bad and they built their. They totally reshaped their roster and brought in some new blood. Yeah, maybe they should be the Patriots because the Patriots had Bill Belichick, someone who won plenty over there and wasn't living up to his own standard. And they brought in some new faces and look where they are now. Second place over the course of the weekend.

[Dan LeBatard]

I don't know how you guys received this news, because some of this stuff. Stuff, obviously in sports, no matter how securely you think you've built something, it can be undone by something like the health of Chris Bosh. So I saw this weekend that Chris Bosh mentioned that he just woke up in his own blood and that it was a life or death circumstance. I think I can make the argument on behalf of what Chris Bosh's game is, that if he had stayed healthy, he'd still be out there shooting jumpers from the perimeter. I don't know how. Maybe he's a little too old for that, but he could have been playing like many of the last 10 years, he could have still been playing as the centerpiece of this team and I believe would have been better than any of the players that they have. If he had stayed healthy over those

[Mike]

10 years he'd been on that team and still effective when Jimmy Butler was here like that have been fun, you

[Dan LeBatard]

know, I mean, he would have been better than Jimmy Butler. I think he's a better player than Jimmy Butler is, even though he's one of the few. Had zero. As a great player, zero points in a game. In a game seven. Because, because LeBron and Dwayne got all, all the usage rate. I, I. When you think of Chris Bosh and excellence, like in the history of the Miami Heat, where do you place him? Because I think he's better than Jimmy Butler and I think he's better than Bam. And I, I think he. And it's no slight on either Jimmy Butler or, or Bam. Where do you put him in the pantheon of greatest Heat players there have ever been?

[Mike]

Certainly better than Bam. I don't know that I would say he's better than Jim. So I think with Bosh, we're talking, we're talking top six or seven.

[Dan LeBatard]

The reason I say he's better than Jimmy is because I saw what he was doing solo with Toronto finishing as an 8 seed. And he too, could have put up 40 and 50 points a game if he was getting all the ball handling the way that Jimmy was getting the ball and would have been an unstoppable thing as the primary number one. But they would have been a seven or an eight seat.

[Mike]

Yeah, but like what Jimmy did in the playoffs, you know that Milwaukee series and, and, and certainly in the finals against the Lakers.

[Zaz]

No, we already established the playoffs don't matter. The regular season was where it's at.

[Mike]

Like, like, I, I think people may not want to hear it today. All right. But like, Jimmy's ahead of Chris Bosh. I love Chris Bosh.

[Tristan]

Yeah, he's. I think he's even outside of that. Tim Hardaway, Alonzo Morning Shaq run.

[Mike]

He's definitely behind Alonzo.

[Tristan]

Yeah. Is he behind Tim Hardaway?

[Mike]

I think he's above Tim Hardaway.

[Unknown Speaker]

Killer crossover.

[Mike]

I think you nailed it.

[Zaz]

It's like six.

[Mike]

It's like six or seven.

[Tristan]

That's where we are with this basketball team. Rushmore season, that's where you're at.

[Dan LeBatard]

Well, what happened to you? So the Houston, you went, you beat Houston by 10 and you go with Kevin Durant.

[Zaz]

Come on.

[Dan LeBatard]

What did Jeremy announced last week after their two losses? Did he say before?

[Zaz]

Yeah, before. I said don't let the Heat win too or I'm going to be really annoyed. And they didn't. And then they lost both games and I said hey, my bad. I won't do that anymore. And then they beat Houston on Saturday.

[Dan LeBatard]

Brutal.

[Zaz]

All the way back in.

[Mike]

Brutal performance.

[Zaz]

I'm citing Pittsburgh ace defensive rating. Oh man we have two in a row against the Nets, right?

[Mike]

You gonna say it so real disgrace a couple there.

[Zaz]

They've won 15 games.

[Mike]

Don't let the Heat win two in

[Dan LeBatard]

a row this way.

[Juju]

I didn't okay gives wrong facts.

[Zaz]

That was a rough one. Oh man sorry. Not first but second in defensive rating by a percentage point.

[Tristan]

My bad.

[Juju]

Also, you saying first in the league in points per game when they're 15th in offensive rating is really, really dis matters.

[Zaz]

Tristan Pace matters.

[Tristan]

Different team from last year, guys.

[Mike]

Totally different.