Local Hour: The Meeting With Michael Doleac

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Episode: Local Hour: The Meeting With Michael Doleac
Date: February 4, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode, recorded at the Elser Hotel in Downtown Miami, delivers another classic “Local Hour” where Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, and the crew dive into South Florida culture, sports drama, Heat trade rumors, and a healthy dose of self-deprecating banter. The show weaves between a uniquely Miami discussion about freezing iguanas, Heat legend Michael Doleac’s awkward non-appearance, and a deep (and hilarious) analysis of the Giannis Antetokounmpo trade saga—plus reflections on James Harden’s career and legacy. Song parodies and playful interludes add levity throughout, keeping the conversation nimble and fun.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Shadow Show and “Voicing It” for Miami (00:30–04:19)

• The crew jokes about their attempt to sway national NBA trade narratives by hyping up Miami’s package for Giannis, trying (and failing) to get Dan to use his media influence (“voicing it”) à la Boston sports radio:
  • Jeremy (02:08): “Dan LeBatard needs to speak on behalf of the city of Miami and go get that whale.”
  • Discussion: How Miami media (and Dan) can shape trade rumors, with playful lobbying for Dan to be the city’s voice—even suggesting he wear a costume to do it.

2. Iguana Problem: A Uniquely Miami Plague (06:09–11:36)

• Greg wants to start with “iguanas” instead of sports, calling frozen-and-revived iguanas uniquely Miami.
• Pat Riley’s infamous mistake: thinking he was burying dead iguanas, but they were only frozen (07:07).
• Environmental debate: should Floridians feel bad about being “deputized” to kill an invasive species?
  • Mike Ryan (10:05): “These are an invasive species... They have a negative effect on our environment.”
• Comedic tangent: measuring iguana length (do you count the tail or not?), personal pet iguanas, and general affection/ambivalence about their fate.

3. The Michael Doleac Encounter (12:09–13:19)

• Greg runs into Heat legend Michael Doleac at the hotel gym—awkwardly, Doleac is gracious but declines to join the show, choosing “to get back to Montana and take care of the cows.”
  • Greg (12:40): “He’s thanking me for, you know, what we do. Making people care—feels pretty generic... He was like, yeah, I don’t want to do that.”

4. Giannis Trade Rumors: The Meta-Narrative (13:19–22:32)

• Parsing reports from Brian Windhorst and national outlets about which NBA teams are making the best offer for Giannis:
  • The Warriors’ offer is discussed—Dan skeptical it’s actually strong (“how is that the best offer?” 13:45).
  • Mike Ryan and the crew debate if the Heat are holding back:
    • Mike Ryan (13:55): “How do the Miami Heat still have better offers to make? Why are we holding back here?”
  • The realities of “increasing” trade offers are unpacked—most teams’ offers are already set, negotiation is more about packaging than substance.
  • Importance of keeping Bam Adebayo if the Heat are to land Giannis, re: agent connections and Giannis’ desires.
• Meta discussion: Frustrations with vague rumors (“teams are increasing their offers”) and Golden State’s media manipulation, contrasted with Miami’s legendary secrecy.

5. Miami Heat Fan Meltdown: Pat Riley Critique (15:08–16:28)

• Comic relief: Zaslo's son firing Pat Riley via group text after trade anxiety (echoes of generational impatience).
  • Dan (15:53): "My son, my 17 year old son just fired Pat Riley... He’s not old enough to understand everything Pat Riley did."
• Heat fans’ neuroses about “losing another superstar.”
• Mike Ryan calls out the Heat’s “whiffs” in landing marquee names recently.

6. Giannis’ Image, Milwaukee Legacy, and Reluctance (17:58–22:32)

• Dan and Greg analyze why Giannis resists looking like “the bad guy” in a trade request:
  • Dan (17:58): “Giannis clearly does not want to be seen publicly as the bad guy... You can’t do something like this if you’re not okay with looking like the bad guy.”
  • Chris (18:23): “He wants to leave, and there’s no way to hide that. …He’s entitled to do what he wants…”
• Parallels with other foreign NBA stars; Giannis’ deep roots in Milwaukee (family, citizenship).
• Legacy talk: who is the greatest Milwaukee Buck—Giannis or Kareem?
  • Greg (20:35): “Kareem would like a word.”

7. Trade Market Mechanics: Golden State vs. Miami/Minnesota (21:18–22:32)

• Explains why Golden State’s offer isn’t getting better and how Miami/Minnesota are working complicated multi-team scenarios to improve their “draft pick plus salary” offers.
• Golden State’s tendency to control national media narratives, while Miami remains secretive.

8. Song Parodies & Interludes (16:28, 19:07, 22:32, 25:11, 27:51)

• Throughout the episode, Greg and Chris break tension and punctuate segments with Michael Doleac tribute parodies (“Doliac songs”), showcasing the show’s playful, irreverent energy:
  • Chris (16:28): “Rick Bernadoliac, you know that he’s not Wax…He’s taking it to the rack…”
  • Greg & Chris (19:07): “1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, swish… I’ma pass to Michael Doliak…”
  • Mike Ryan & Chris (25:11): “Mike Doiak brings all his boys to the yard…he will teach you how to take good charge…”

9. James Harden’s Career, Legacy, & Media Treatment (34:31–42:11)

• The show transitions to NBA culture, particularly how the media/fans treat James Harden:
  • Greg (34:31): “The reputation James Harden has is he doesn’t care enough. It’s not humanly possible…to be that good and not care enough…”
  • Mike Ryan (36:24): “He is on the low end [of caring]. …The professionalism was lacking.”
• Play the viral Dallas Mavericks studio rant video that scalps Harden’s trade-hopping, partner-blaming, “bad roommate” status (36:53).
• Chris (39:16): “He’s a guy who chases money, who’s never satisfied with a team. …He’s still a great player, an all-time great, in my opinion.”
• Barkley, legacy without a championship, and double standards:
  • Mike Ryan (41:24): “There are plenty of great players that don’t have a ring. Charles Barkley doesn’t get hit with—you didn’t care enough. …With James Harden, clearly—the professionalism was lacking.”

10. The Business of the NBA: Loyalty, Trades, and Breaking Up (29:34–33:35)

• Discussion about how trades work for stars, with Draymond Green’s recent comments about being on the block:
  • Draymond via Cody (30:52): “It’s just a business. …I’ve never been traded, but it can happen to anybody.”
• Juxtaposition: fans/media judge stars harshly, but Kawhi Leonard and players view “the business” pragmatically, often with less emotion than fans.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On wielding Dan’s voice:
  Jeremy (02:41): "Dan needs to be voicing it. Voicing it on behalf of the city of Miami."

• On frozen iguanas and Miami’s weirdness:
  Greg (06:09): "I'm not doing what you guys want me to do. I'm a journalist...I'm starting with iguanas."
  Greg (09:29): "I would never kill him, okay? He’s cold-blooded. If he falls out of my tree frozen...I'm going to nurture him back to health."

• On Pat Riley's iguana tale:
  Greg (07:07): "[Pat Riley] buried them all and he killed them. They weren't dead when he got them. They were just frozen."

• On Giannis trade rumors and media manipulation:
  Dan (13:45): "How is that the best offer? The Warriors. How is that the best offer? The only player of any substance that they're offering is a guy who Steve Kerr refused to play for 17 consecutive..."

• On generational Heat fandom:
  Dan (15:53): "My 17-year-old son just fired Pat Riley..."

• On Giannis & the ‘bad guy’ dilemma:
  Dan (17:58): "He does not want to look like the bad guy. And you can't do something like this if you're not okay with looking like the bad guy."

• On legacy and Kareem:
  Greg (20:35): “Kareem would like a word. I think Kareem would like a word.”

• On Heat negotiation philosophy:
  Dan (14:21): "No one. They're not holding back. That's the point. No one knows anything."

• On James Harden’s care factor:
  Greg (34:31): “It’s not humanly possible for any athlete who has ever played to be that good and not care enough about basketball.”

• Mavericks broadcasting roasting Harden:
  (36:53–38:51, paraphrased): “James, you’re not the beard, you’re not the system. You’re the problem.”

• On the business of NBA loyalty:
  Greg (33:41): “They only care about you in direct proportion to how much you help them…It’s the most conditional relationship there can possibly be.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:30 – Shadow Show, Heat narrative lobbying
• 06:09 – Frozen iguana phenomenon & Pat Riley’s story
• 12:09 – Greg’s Michael Doleac encounter
• 13:19 – Giannis trade rumors: Miami, Minnesota, and Golden State
• 15:08 – Zaslo’s son fires Pat Riley
• 17:58 – Giannis’ image management, legacy
• 21:18 – Trade mechanics: Golden State vs. Miami/Minnesota offers
• 25:11 – Doliac song parody
• 29:34 – “The business” of NBA trades: Draymond’s perspective, Kawhi’s attitude vs. fan outrage
• 34:31 – James Harden discussion: media narrative, career, and the infamous Dallas rant (36:53–38:51)
• 41:24 – Legacy comparison: Barkley vs. Harden (championship ring double standard)
• 42:05 – Warriors’ opponent in Rockets’ infamous Game 7 (73-win team correction)

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Overall Tone and Takeaways

• Tone: Playful, irreverent, energetic; serious sports analysis is always filtered through inside jokes, Miami references, and song parodies.
• Style: Candid, affectionate ribbing within the group; skepticism toward media narratives; empathy for how stars navigate loyalty, image, and “the business” realities of sports.
• Big Picture:
  • Miami sports fandom is a mix of hope, paranoia, and self-deprecating humor.
  • The business of pro sports (NBA) is transactional and often cold—players know it better than fans do.
  • Legacies are both fair and unfair: success and perception often hinge on small moments and narrative spin.
  • Amidst all this, the show finds time for pet iguanas, goofy Heat nostalgia, and send-ups of its own local boosterism.

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For New Listeners:
You’ll leave this episode with a sense of how Miami’s sports conversation is both self-important and “in on the joke”—and why The Dan Le Batard Show remains a singular voice in sports media. If you enjoy basketball, Miami weirdness, and a show that sings parody songs to Heat legends, this “Local Hour” is classic Le Batard.

Transcript

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[Jeremy]

Shadow Show. Shadow Show. Shadow Show. Shadow Show. Shadow Show. Shadow Show. Shadow Show.

[Chris]

Shadow Show.

[Jeremy]

Shadow Show. Shadow Show. Shadow Show. Shadowing it. Shadowing it. So what the hell happened yesterday? Because we started the Shadow show, and I'm whispering a little bit louder because clearly it didn't get heard by the only person that matters, which is Dan. Yesterday, we started the show saying, hey, let's all lock in. Let's downplay the trade packages from elsewhere. Golden State, Minnesota. Hype up that Heat package.

[Dan]

Yeah, that was good. Yeah.

[Jeremy]

Explain that. Tyler Hero and Khalil Ware are really good pieces to get for Milwaukee.

[Mike Ryan]

Don't forget the part where we were trying to trick Milwaukee into thinking where was good. Yeah. By playing him some more. We. We want to trick them.

[Jeremy]

Yeah. Tricking them is the key.

[Mike Ryan]

That's. Honestly. It's the spine of the whole device.

[Jeremy]

But where did we fail yesterday? Where we failed by not doing the.

[Dan]

Thing that we said we were gonna do.

[Jeremy]

We set up the entire show.

[Chris]

What happened?

[Jeremy]

We set up the entire show.

[Mike Ryan]

Scram.

[Jeremy]

To be. To be about.

[Dan]

This isn't funny. Stop laughing.

[Jeremy]

Using our voice, Scranton, as a collective show.

[Mike Ryan]

Jeremy, we don't have the juice.

[Jeremy]

No, we do have the juice. We do not have this group of people. Don't you know who has the juice?

[Mike Ryan]

Dan Leitard.

[Jeremy]

Dan Leardard. And Dan Leardard did not walk in here and even address Yanis onto Dan's fault. We did great. We talked about James Harden for 45 minutes before he was even traded. So what needs to happen. What needs to happen now is we need to use our voice in this office to get Dan to properly use his voice in the national media landscape. You know, when Dan says stuff provocative, it gets aggregated.

[Chris]

Voicing it.

[Jeremy]

It goes everywhere. You're damn right, Greg. Dan needs to be voicing it. Voicing it on behalf of the city of Miami. Does he have to wear a costume? So that's up to him.

[Chris]

That would help.

[Jeremy]

It'd be a Plus, it would probably help. I don't know if we have time between the Shadow show and the regular show to get him in a costume, but we need Dan to be voicing it. The way that Mike Ryan voiced it when it came to the Miami Hurricanes and we got them into the playoff, the way that the Boston media voiced it and made sure Damian Lillard wasn't traded here. That ultimately led to them getting a title. Dan LeBatard needs to speak on behalf of the city of Miami and go get that whale.

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[Mike Ryan]

This is the Dan Levator show with the Stugats podcast.

[Greg]

I'm not doing what you guys want me to do. I'm a journalist. I'm not, you know, I'm not bought and paid for. I'm starting with iguanas. Because as much as you guys complain that I say things are uniquely Miami that aren't uniquely Miami, I gotta think this plague of iguanas getting frozen and then people thinking they're dead, but they're not dead. I don't think that that happens anywhere in the United States outside of Miami. I told you guys once the story. Pat Riley learned it the hard way when he came out and his lawn was filled with iguanas he thought were dead. They were just frozen. It was too cold. And this is what their bodies do because they're not supposed to be here. And he buried them all and he killed them. They weren't dead when he got them. They were just frozen. And then he killed them. Have you guys experienced this? Because it makes me sad, the number of people wandering around. Some of them are making tacos out of the iguanas, saying that they're the chicken of the tree.

[Chris]

Yeah, they're edible.

[Mike Ryan]

Stop trying to shame Pat Riley for doing Florida a service whenever the temperature dips. The Florida Fish and Wildlife association deputizes all the residents of Florida to kill this invasive species.

[Chris]

Yeah, we're encouraged to kill iguanas. It doesn't seem right to me. I have an iguana living in my black olive tree in the front of my house. I see it occasionally. I love that thing. It's like, not counting the tail, it's like, you know, two feet long.

[Greg]

Why wouldn't you count the tail?

[Chris]

Well, because the tail is just an appendage?

[Greg]

No, the tail is part of how it is. You would measure the size of an iguana? Why? Why count the tail? It is. Chris is right about this. Why wouldn't you count the tail? The t. Tail deserves to be counted in the measurement.

[Unidentified Male Sponsor Voice]

Not counting his legs, about 4ft.

[Greg]

Not counting his head, like.

[Chris]

Well, it goes without saying that the tail is pretty much the same length as the body. So it's a four foot ago you just doubled it.

[Greg]

You took half the iguana size for no reason. You, you. It's not enough that we're killing iguana right and left, now you're taking away their tails too.

[Chris]

Look, if I had a tail, okay, picture me with a tail like a dog tail.

[Unidentified Male Sponsor Voice]

If I closing my eyes, I'm picturing it.

[Chris]

Okay? If I had a tail, I have.

[Greg]

It more as like a dragon tail. What are you guys doing with the tail? What kind of tail? A horse.

[Dan]

Like a, like, like a stub.

[Greg]

Oh, just like, like a bulldog.

[Unidentified Male Sponsor Voice]

Otter tail.

[Iguana Expert / Statistician]

I don't know why.

[Chris]

A couple of dogs ago, Sandy had a stub of a tail because it was a Puerto Rican dog. And apparently our friends in Puerto Rico have a habit of. Of cutting tails when the, when the animals.

[Dan]

Puerto Rican dog dogs have races.

[Chris]

This was a Puerto Rican dog.

[Mike Ryan]

It's a lot of Puerto Rican rescues, Willow.

[Chris]

It barked inside.

[Mike Ryan]

Jesse's dog is Puerto Rican.

[Chris]

There you go. But anyway, getting back to that. If I had a tail, I'm still five nine you9're not gonna increase my height because I have a tail.

[Greg]

Nothing to do with your height. The guana goes the gut, the iguana does not. It's not measured standing up on its hind legs. It's measured by length, not height, right?

[Unidentified Male Sponsor Voice]

Yeah.

[Dan]

If the tail pointed up, then you wouldn't measure the tail as part of the iguanas length. But it doesn't. The tail, it's. It's horizontal.

[Chris]

Okay? The point is, the iguana that lives in my black olive tree, I love him like a pet. I would never kill him, okay? He's cold blooded. If he falls out of my tree frozen once every three years, I'm going to nurture him back to health.

[Unidentified Male Sponsor Voice]

Jumping Charlie would not like that.

[Chris]

Jumping Charlie would kill that thing.

[Greg]

Put it on the poll at Lebatard show would jump and Charlie kill that thing. And Jeremy, please look it up for me. Whether this is something that happens outside of Miami, probably happens other places outside of the United States. I just can't imagine it happens anywhere else in the United States that you have this grand proliferation of iguanas that seem like they're dead, but they're not dead, and that they don't belong here. And symbolically, by the way, in terms of what's going on in America, like a lot of people are being cruel to the iguanas and the saying is some form of if you don't like ice, get out of here.

[Mike Ryan]

Look, I don't think the iguanas needed a famous ally the way that you're keeping up for them. These are an invasive species. Do you know what that means? They're not supposed to be here. They have a negative effect on our.

[Greg]

Environment, just like ice and what they're.

[Mike Ryan]

Doing on stolen land. You should not be shaming anybody that is carrying out what is recommended.

[Iguana Expert / Statistician]

99.6% of the sightings in the United States are in South Florida, particularly in Miami Dade, Broward and Palm beach counties. They're also present in the Florida Keys. The other point four percent are made up of Texas and Hawaii.

[Mike Ryan]

And you know why that is? Because all the other places get much colder and so they freeze with great regularity there and probably get preyed upon.

[Greg]

Preyed upon by Pat Riley and all of these people in these videos who are deputized, like you're saying that we're all deputized to kill iguana even though it's terrible.

[Unidentified Male Sponsor Voice]

This is like a nap though, right? They wake up from this.

[Chris]

Yes, that's correct.

[Greg]

They're napping and then they're dead. That's right. They're napping and then they're dead.

[Unidentified Male Sponsor Voice]

Napping.

[Dan]

I'm dead.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Mike Ryan]

I don't like iguanas.

[Dan]

I don't like them either.

[Mike Ryan]

They're. They're creepy. They're everywhere. I don't like them.

[Chris]

Yeah, they look like modern day dinosaurs. I love them.

[Iguana Expert / Statistician]

I love them too, Greg. I have so many iguanas in my backyard and they climb up the trees and sometimes it's the smaller green iguanas then. Have you ever seen the giant orange ones?

[Greg]

Yeah, they're. They're scary. They're dinosaurs.

[Iguana Expert / Statistician]

It's the coolest thing. How lucky are we that we live in a plane where these iguanas exist? We're lucky to live in nature.

[Chris]

Yeah, I totally agree. I'm against killing them. I see Mike's point. Everything he says is true. We're encouraged to kill them. It doesn't mean it feels right.

[Greg]

The Miami Heat are in this building with us. The Elser Hotel is a luxury hotel across from the Arena. They take care. Very good care of us, and they take very good care of the luxury, the assortment of people who need luxury living in the area. And so, because the Miami Heat are doing their 20th anniversary, a great many of the players are in the building. And I ran into the. In the gym. I just ran into Michael Doleak, and it was a bit awkward because I don't actually know how Michael Doleak feels about us. I didn't know beforehand, and I still don't know because he was thanking me for making people care. But he also wouldn't come in when I just said, hey, the guys would be happy to see you if you came around. And he's like, yeah, I don't want to do that. I got to get back to Montana and take care of the cows. Take care of the cows.

[Unidentified Male Sponsor Voice]

He wearing the cowboy hat in the weight room because he wore it all week, so.

[Greg]

No, he was not.

[Dan]

Did he say it like that? I don't want to do that.

[Greg]

Yes, just like that. In fact, no. In fact, this is how the conversation went. He's thanking me for, you know, what we do. Making people care feel pretty generic.

[Unidentified Male Sponsor Voice]

Did he know what show he was talking about?

[Greg]

No, he does, because he does, because one day he got a flurry of phone calls, and he goes to his phone and he thought someone had died because he's like, what's going on? And it's like, no, the Levitar show is just playing Doliac songs, and I don't know whether he finds any of this stuff funny. And I'm like, hey, well, you know, thank you for thanking me. And the guys would love to see you. They'd be really excited if I brought you down there, there to see.

[Dan]

Everybody would be excited.

[Greg]

And I said, if you wanted to do that, that would be wonderful. And he's like, I don't want to do that. And so he didn't do it. And he's not. He's not doing it. But it allows us the opportunity before we talk about some of the Giannis stuff, because Wind Horse on Get up is saying, I am seeing action from the Miami Heat and Timberwolves to improve their offer. The best offer I'm aware of belongs to the warriors, but I'm not seeing a lot of momentum towards Milwaukee making a Giannis move.

[Dan]

How is that the best offer? The Warriors. How is that the best offer? The only player of any substance that they're offering is a guy who Steve Kerr refused to play for 17 consecutive.

[Mike Ryan]

How do the Miami heats still have better Offers to make what?

[Dan]

Right.

[Mike Ryan]

Why are we holding back here? Right. We're going to be stingy on the Giannis front.

[Dan]

Right? Our team's out there playing hard to get on Giannis. You can't really. You can't have that. Like, it makes no sense.

[Mike Ryan]

We've whiffed on all the superstars and here comes, like, one that maybe if Miami Heat fans had their pick of any superstar in the league, he'd be up there.

[Dan]

This is what I'm talking about.

[Mike Ryan]

What are we holding back for?

[Dan]

No one. They're not holding back. That's the point. No one knows anything. Teams are increasing their. What are you talking about? Increasing their offers. We all know what every team has to offer.

[Mike Ryan]

Can we increase? Take whatever you want.

[Dan]

There's no increasing.

[Iguana Expert / Statistician]

It's a good point.

[Chris]

Except Bam.

[Iguana Expert / Statistician]

Well, that's not going to happen, because the way that this really works, that.

[Unidentified Male Sponsor Voice]

Would be increasing, though.

[Iguana Expert / Statistician]

Pair the two of them together. That's not the offer and that's not what Giannis would want.

[Chris]

Right. And they're friends. They have the same agent. And part of the reason Giannis wants this, it wants Miami, is to play with bam.

[Iguana Expert / Statistician]

That's.

[Dan]

How are the warriors increasing their offer? Are you telling me that they're not offering all of their picks?

[Iguana Expert / Statistician]

No, they are.

[Dan]

Are you telling me that they weren't offering Kaminga? How are they increasing their offer?

[Iguana Expert / Statistician]

Here's the reality is.

[Mike Ryan]

Can I.

[Greg]

Can I stop you for just a second, Jeremy? What I'd like to do is I'd like to do this Giannis talk, but I'd like to interrupt it occasionally just with Doliac songs without war. So go ahead and do the. Do the Giannis talk because people do want the Giannis talk. And Zaslo is going officially crazy because Zaslo's son yesterday fired Pat Riley. And Mike, you were on that text string with me when a panicked Zaslo saw Minnesota make a small trade and just started shouting into the phone, we're losing him. We're losing. Minnesota is going to get him. I know it.

[Mike Ryan]

They either made the move before the move, which is terrifying, or they did the thing that Miami Heat fans celebrated for 15 years, which is make sure our owner pays less money, please.

[Dan]

Well, I was also shouting it into ESPN because it happened while I was doing afternoon drive on ESPN Radio yesterday. And then I also text you guys, I think Minnesota just made the move before the move. And my son, my 17 year old son just fired Pat Riley because my son doesn't know that my son My son isn't old enough. He's 17. So he's not old enough to understand everything that Pat Riley did for this organization. All he knows is the last 10 years where the Heat try and do stuff and they don't get it done. So my son wants Pat Riley fired, not step down. He wants him to be fired.

[Chris]

Rick Bernadoliac, you know that he's not Wax. It's Michael Doliak, and he's taking it to the rack. Return a Doliac. I think he played with Shaq. That's Michael Doliak, and he never smokes the crack.

[Mike Ryan]

Such a strange fan base, this Heat fan base. You have high tops at Flanagan's high fiving each other because we moved Beano Oudre to get us under the apron.

[Greg]

Zaslow's son firing Pat Riley with a lack of respect is something he should not allow in his household. But Zaslow is having a little bit of difficulty teaching respect to his kids in the household, and this is a place where it should be taught easily. But Mike also is pretty down on Pat Riley and has been for years, and now he's also down on Giannis. Okay, because it's very clear, very clear in all of this that Giannis, and this happened to Lillard, too. And the Heat caught a break that they didn't actually get Lillard because then he broke. But Giannis clearly does not want to be seen publicly as the bad guy. And this one is super interesting to me as a guy who is a foreigner and has been one of the few foreigners who's allowed to actually cross over and be an American superstar like Jokic doesn't even get to be this. Giannis has learned the language and done so much to ingratiate himself to both America and Milwaukee that he's become a transcendent superstar, even though English isn't his first language. That's hard to do. Baseball players have a ton of difficulty doing it. So the quotes attributed to Giannis is, what do you mean? My father's buried in Milwaukee. My kids have Milwaukee on their passport. I don't want to ever leave Milwaukee. He does not want to look like the bad guy. And you can't do something like this if you're not okay with looking like the bad guy.

[Chris]

I totally agree. The lone exception to what you say is that there was an incident where he booed the home crowd and gave it a thumbs down. But other than that, Milwaukee loves him and he loves Milwaukee, but he wants to leave, and there's no way to hide that. He wants out. Milwaukee's willing to trade him. Reality comes in. Bucks fans deal with it. When he comes back in a Heat uniform or what have you, you're going to decide. The reaction you give to him. I suspect you're going to cheer him like the hero he was for you, like the champion he was for you. But that's up to the fans. Giannis makes his move. He's entitled to do what he wants for himself, for his family, for his bank account. He's entitled to it all.

[Greg]

One, two, three, one, two, three, swish. One, two, three, 1, 2, 3, swish. 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, three, swish. Throw em up till I lose count. I'm gonna pass to Michael Doliak. Michael Doliak. He's gonna shoot like the defense doesn't exist. Like it doesn't exist.

[Mike Ryan]

I do agree with Greg. He is entitled to do what he wants. Sports fans are entitled to judge how he's going about this. The guy would rather spend a summer of his prime in Greece than chasing another title with a contender.

[Dan]

What does that mean? What do you mean?

[Mike Ryan]

I mean he rather be in Greece than do what is necessary to get himself off of this roster. Because the move that the Timberwolves made was, with June in mind, not to make a move for him right now. He does not want to be the bad guy. And I think he's overthinking this. He brought a title, was the sole reason Milwaukee got an NBA title. He's going to be a good guy in like 6 months time.

[Dan]

I think he's a good guy the moment he's traded. I don't think. I don't get the impression that anyone.

[Mike Ryan]

In Milwaukee has given everything to that town. He has been the greatest Milwaukee buck of all time. Let him move. Let him do the thing that every superstar needs to do on the way out, because he's not doing those things right now.

[Greg]

Kareem would like a word. I think Kareem would like a word.

[Mike Ryan]

Laker.

[Greg]

He gets forgotten in a lot of these situations.

[Mike Ryan]

You're not calling him by the name that he played with.

[Greg]

I believe that Kareem also gets looked past in the conversations about who's the best player ever. Because we insist on doing this to someone who's a human size. It's why we like Michael Jordan and Kobe better. If you're 7ft, we kind of disqualify you from the conversation of whether you can be the best basketball player ever. Because we want it to be about will, not physical size.

[Dan]

I thought we don't say that he's the best ever because he's not.

[Iguana Expert / Statistician]

It's cool that we're going to do the same thing with Wemby, with him, right? Like he's going to be the greatest ever on and off the court like Kareem, and then we're just going to kind of ignore it.

[Mike Ryan]

Eyes on the ball.

[Iguana Expert / Statistician]

Okay, so the honest thing, Golden State like you were talking about, can they increase their offer? No, they can't. The conversation around increasing their offer has been Minnesota and Miami because Minnesota more likely than not has just been offering like salary and is trying, I mean the reports are they're trying to get four or five teams involved so that they can spread Naz Reed and Julius Randall and Jaden McDaniels all over the league to acquire picks and salary filler. To be able to make this move, they will have to do a ton of with the Heat, it's a matter of what we've been talking about it. What salary do you want? Do you want to be able to take guys and make those first round pick trades on your own? And what started this is Golden State and this has been forever. Golden State's front office talks to the national media more than anyone in basketball. They're constantly talking, they are constantly putting narratives out there. They want you to know what they're doing. And so we've known for a while. They're gonna offer all their picks, they're gonna offer pick swaps, they're gonna offer Pajemski and Kaminga. It was Butler. Now it's green. We know what that is. Now what do the Heat and Minnesota do to match that? Because you don't negotiate against yourself.

[Greg]

What would you do if I took it to the hoop?

[Chris]

Would you stand up and try to block me?

[Greg]

Play some defense and I'll.

[Chris]

I'll back it out.

[Greg]

I will try to hit it from the top of the Only I could buy with a little help from Prince La Friend.

[Mike Ryan]

Yes. Oh that was good.

[Greg]

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[Mike Ryan]

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[Greg]

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[Mike Ryan]

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[Greg]

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[Mike Ryan]

From your garage to your attic, visit homedepot.com how doers get more Done Done Lebatard this is largely proponent and we need to establish at least some reasonable doubt. Yes, exactly.

[Greg]

This play store where he pays more.

[Mike Ryan]

Than you do St I always like leave a hand on chicken cuz he's so vulnerable. I just unfairly fade down the chickens to just leave him by himself.

[Greg]

This is the D Ler show with the Staslow has a running feud with Brian Windhorse. Zaslo's been saying none of these reporters know anything. I. I do believe that Wendy is connected and I do believe that Wind Horse knows things. Wind Horse was your first ballot into the Tool hall of Fame. Why are you doing this, man? Is it true or not? Is it?

[Dan]

I mean, he is inaugural member Tool Week hall of Fame. He was hanging in the rafters. We had a whole ceremony and a banner and everything. Why are you doing this? So, like, I didn't do it.

[Greg]

You're the one who hung the banner in the rafters. You're the one who did that. And then you worked for espn. That's not right. That's not my fault. You tried that.

[Dan]

You're bringing something back up that I had a lot of anxiety and agita over when I got a job at ESPN Radio. And I had to smooth things over. And because of, because of my past actions, okay, there are consequences and I had to deal with those consequences. And now we've moved on. I'm in a place with some employees there, like Brian Windsor, who have been able to get past my past transgressions. And now you're bringing it up again.

[Mike Ryan]

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

[Chris]

Mike Doiak brings all his boys to the yard and his game is better than yours.

[Greg]

Damn right it's better than yours.

[Dan]

He will teach you how to take good charge.

[Greg]

Wendy says on get up. The Miami Heat are out there talking to other teams, trying to assemble three team packages where they can improve the amount of draft picks and young pieces they could offer to Milwaukee. Same for Minnesota, but I think it's a long shot they can come up with that package. And I believe that while Mike Ryan wants what he wants, and we'll aggressively call Giannis names or tell him that he's doing the wrong thing, I think Mike Ryan and the rest of us underestimate his connection to that city's fan base and how much that audience and that relationship means to him. So here is Giannis talking to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. And I already told you, like he's saying, my father's buried here. My kids have this on their passport. This is a man who is thankful for the American dream. Okay? This is a man who has gotten something very few foreigners ever get. Jokic is not the star he should be based on his excellence, the reason he doesn't speak English and give you the personality the way Giannis does. The things have worked out for Giannis better than they do with most foreigners. And so when he says a Milwaukee, specifically, not even America, he says, quote, if you ask me what I really want, deep down in my heart, I want to be a Milwaukee buck until I retire and win a championship here. End of sentence. If that is not possible to happen, if then you realize maybe that's not the case, and maybe they're looking elsewhere and that's not what they're trying to do, then automatically you have to be in the plans of what they're trying to do or weigh the other options. It's normal. I've created more memories in this city than in my country. Like, that sentence right there is easy to dismiss when you want Giannis to come to your city. Like, it's. It's super easy to say, ah, what a coward. Doesn't want to look like the bad guy, doesn't want to torch the relationship with his city. But I think he's being honest there. I think he wants out and doesn't want it to look like he wants out.

[Mike Ryan]

I agree. He does not want it to look like he wants out, but he wants out. And he's been in the league long enough as a superstar to know how these things go. And I'm getting a little frustrated with the Miami Heat targeting these really loyal superstars. They got to make a bigger mess. First Damian Lillard with Portland. Portland and now Milwaukee. Come on, get some dirt bag. Target James Harden once in a while.

[Greg]

They already did with Rosier.

[Mike Ryan]

He played with Laitner and backed up Shadow once.

[Chris]

Great with rebounds and put back at times.

[Greg]

The wagons down the floor.

[Mike Ryan]

She gonna put back here by no more Michael. Don't talk. Bar. He's in his 30s.

[Chris]

He's 31.

[Mike Ryan]

He's got an incredible body that has aided his spectacular play. This is not a small thing, him punting on a postseason. It's not. In terms of his legacy. In terms of the achievements, yes, he's made spectacular memories in Milwaukee. That's not to say he can't make memories elsewhere. And he's deciding, I think I'd rather just not make memories this summer and spend my summer at home. And that's. Come on. You're being graded against the greats. Dan's comparing you to Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Like, come on, you did that.

[Greg]

You said he was the best player in the history of the Bucks because you.

[Mike Ryan]

And you mentioned the wrong name. Well, Cinder was a Milwaukee.

[Chris]

Damn right.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah.

[Chris]

That's a fine law, Michael.

[Greg]

Thank you. We'll do it again with you tomorrow.

[Mike Ryan]

Yes, tomorrow. These superstars have egos. They want to talk, be talked about as the greatest. Giannis wants to leave a legacy in which he is remembered as one of the goats of all time and to opt out of a postseason because you don't want to make a divorce look uglier. A divorce that you will be forgiven for literally six months from now, like your next time in Milwaukee. You're gonna get cheered. I. I have a hard time wrapping my head around that. We know how this goes. The NBA fan and the American sports fan is conditioned for this. Just do the thing.

[Dan]

I know the Heat like to keep everything in house. They.

[Unidentified Male Sponsor Voice]

They.

[Dan]

They don't have leaks. They don't want the media to know what they have going on, negotiations and all that. But, see, other teams, like Minnesota potentially made the move before the move. Golden State has Draymond Green last night talking about how he's about to be traded.

[Greg]

Let's get that sound before you continue with this point. You continue the point after we play the Draymond sound of him being, you know, a little bit wounded by the business of this because he's a champion, and he kind of wants the deal LeBron has, where LeBron is saying he doesn't expect to be traded. And when LeBron says that, it means. Because he knows it, because they can't trade him unless he says they can trade him because there are so few, no trade clauses. But if anyone's earned one, it would be someone like Draymond. But that's not the way this business works, because when Mike Ryan says sports fans are conditioned to guys doing the thing. Now, you guys all killed James Harden yesterday with a real amount of poison because you don't like it when these guys do the thing. So let's listen to Draymond here saying, I've kind of done. Done some things for this city. I'd like to stay here.

[Mike Ryan]

Steve said he's had a chat with you about.

[Cody]

That's when it got real for me.

[Iguana Expert / Statistician]

Yeah.

[Cody]

It's like, oh, maybe I should be a little more worried about this than I am. I didn't get worried about it, but I was like, huh, okay.

[Chris]

Yeah.

[Cody]

It's interesting. He was like, how you doing? I'm good, coach. You know, I know all these trade Rooms and stuff. Just like, it's weird. It's like, yeah, it's crazy. And then he's like, how's Hazel handling it? And that's when it got real to me. I was like, I haven't spoke to her about it. It's not. It's not something we spoke about. That's when it got real to me. So today on the way to the game, I spoke to my son about it. I was like, yo, what if I get traded? It's like, well, why would they trade you? Like, it's just a business. I've never been traded, but it can happen to anybody. And he was like, oh, I just don't understand why they would do that.

[Greg]

What are your thoughts when we talk about the. Just the business here, Cody? Because I thought yesterday as Zas and Mike Ryan and a whole lot of people are killing James Harden before the trade. What I thought was most interesting in the middle of that is Kawhi Leonard, who never says anything about anything, says, that guy's forever my boy. And even if that guy leaves his side and he can't do it anymore with the Clippers, he's not hurt by it. He understands more than most how it's a business. You know why? Because Kawhi, I'm positive, is hurt by everything that happened in San Antonio. And then he goes to Toronto, another country wins the championship. And he knows these people don't care about you. You have to get yours, not these. When I say these people, I mean the fans, I mean ownership. I mean, they only care about you in direct proportion to how much you help them. It's not a real relationship that is loving and conditional. It's the most unconditional, it's the most conditional relationship there can possibly be. And Kawhi is sitting here saying, as the knower of the business, cuz I'm positive he was hurt by everything that happened in San Antonio. My guess is he would love to still be in San Antonio. Everything would be fine if playing with Wemby, if there hadn't been a mess with the doctors. And so Kawhi loses his running mate loses. I mean, he doesn't want Darius Garland loses the guy that he can actually play well with. And then he says, no problem. It's business. He understands it. We don't like. He. He gets it. He forgives James Harden. This is a business partner of his. He's like, that's always going to be my boy. He's got no problem with James Harden leaving. We do.

[Mike Ryan]

I mean, if you don't get it by now with James Harden. Like, when are you gonna get it? He does this every time. He knows who he married. I don't understand keeping up for James Harden at all. He chose this life. I don't get it.

[Greg]

I'm just telling you Kawhi did. You don't. You don't.

[Mike Ryan]

Kawhi knows.

[Chris]

Exactly.

[Greg]

But Kawhi's got more involved in that investment than you do, and he seems to be less hurt by it than.

[Mike Ryan]

You are hurt at all by it. James Harden picked this. And the consequences of James Harden picking this type of career is that we get to highlight the low lights.

[Dan]

Well, and I would say he. He doesn't care as much as we do about it because he has been resigned to the fact for a while now that the business part of it, the money part of it, is a lot more important to him than the actual winning part of it. It's not like James Harden decided to leave at the end of the season. He literally quit on them. They've won 15 out of 18 games. Said, I'm out. And, like, Kawhi's okay with it.

[Mike Ryan]

Evidently does come from jealousy. If anybody had that kind of talent, I think we'd care more.

[Greg]

Well, so here's the thing, though. Here's the thing about caring that I find funny. Jeremy, can you look this up for me? Because I know James Harden was an mvp, but I don't know how many times he finished, like, runner up or top five. Can you give me just how close James Harden has come various times to winning the MVP of the league? The reputation James Harden has is he doesn't care enough. It's not humanly possible for any athlete who has ever played to be that good and not care enough about basketball. There's nobody who rolls out of the crib, doesn't care, and is just supernaturally gifted at basketball. Kevin Durant, you can say he doesn't care. He cares. Cares more than you, James Harden. You can say he doesn't care. He cares. You can't be that excellent. It's not possible, not humanly possible to be runner up for mvp. No one's ever done it. No one ever will. Unless you take care of your body and do all the things that you have to do. That he won MVP because they had the best record in the league and they averaged 30 points a game. But how many times did he finish runner up or top five?

[Iguana Expert / Statistician]

So he finished for eight straight seasons in the top 10. That was every single year that he was in Houston. So he won six man of the Year in his third season. That was his final year in okc. Then he finished eighth, fifth, second, ninth, second, Won the mvp, second, third. And in the year he was traded from Houston to Brooklyn, he finished 13th. So he finished top 13 in nine straight seasons. Oh, and by the way, top 10 last year.

[Greg]

That's the damage to the legacy of what it is that he's done. People think he doesn't care when it's not possible that he doesn't care.

[Mike Ryan]

No, I think it's. I think it's entirely possible that he doesn't care enough. Like, okay, you want to make the easy argument that he cares? Yeah, he's excellent at his job. He's made a half a billion dollars. He clearly cares about putting the ball through the hoop. But there are other factors. He very clearly on the spectrum of caring. He is on the low end. And it's pretty evident to everybody. This was a year ago and this went viral a year ago. It was a MAV studio host talking about James Harden now going to the Clippers. And he calls the future in this one clip. It nails his career note for note.

[Mavericks Studio Host]

Ask the producer to pipe this into the Clippers locker room so I can talk to you. James, I hope you're taking notes. I'm telling you in advance, you're welcome for the wisdom I'm about to spew. Because, listen, I get on my knees every night and pray for someone to believe in me like Daryl Bowmer believed in you. You wanted a certain coach, they brought in Mike d'.

[Chris]

Antonio.

[Mavericks Studio Host]

You wanted to play a certain style, they played it. You wanted Dwight Howard, they brought him in and got rid of him. When you retired of him. You wanted Chris Paul, they brought him in and got rid of him. You were tired of him. They brought in your old friend Russell Westbrook. You want to go to Vegas on off days, they looked away. You wanted the team to stay over so you could go out at night. They changed the schedule and it didn't work. And you know what you said? I'm going to break up with my Woobie. Not good enough. I see the bright lights in New York. I want to go there. My old pal Kevin Durant. It's going to work. The big three and all. After one year, you wanted out. You realized, oh, my gosh, I took this guy for granted, the guy that believed in me. I went back with Daryl Morey. They tried of Ben Simmons for you. How did they pull that off? And you know what? You went there and you Got a partner who got the mvp. He won the mvp. And what did you say afterwards? You said, they didn't hand me the reins. You're the point guard. You were holding the reins. And what did you do when you had the reins? You scored nine points in game seven against Boston. You blew a three, two series lead. So they, they fired their coach. Not good enough. You broke up with your guy, believed in you.

[Greg]

Again.

[Mavericks Studio Host]

You said, the bright lights of la, that's where I want to go. Let's see if that works. Listen, James, have you ever had friends who had bad roommates? Over and over, they complained about their bad roommates. This guy's terrible. The bad roommate here. They never thought being self aware enough that they're the bad roommate. They're the problem. Hey, James, you're the problem. If this doesn't work this year in this system, with this team, then you're going to go and point fingers at everybody else and you're going to go back home and you're going to start swiping right for another team and there's not going to be anybody left. Because, James, you're not the beard, you're not the system. System. You're the problem.

[Unidentified Male Sponsor Voice]

Heard that mic drop there.

[Greg]

It was great. And he keeps swiping right and he's going to get his money and he always does. And it's because he's excellent. And he's excellent.

[Unidentified Male Sponsor Voice]

Like the one thing he's wrong is that there wouldn't. He said there wouldn't be another team waiting. And there was.

[Mike Ryan]

Well, it's Cleveland.

[Dan]

I think that clip's embarrassing. I really do. The guy's doing an editorial on a player who plays for another team. He's a maverick. It's a Mavericks broadcast. Like, he's right about everything he said. Like it's embarrassing.

[Chris]

It's just the most negative angle, though. I mean, when I look at James Harden, I see an all time great whose legacy is bulletproof. At this point he's just, oh, no.

[Greg]

No, no, his legacy's not bulletproof.

[Mike Ryan]

It came off Teflon there, where an unprecedented studio host is doing an editorial just to take him out.

[Greg]

Greg, his like the part about this that's fascinating to me is the fact that you really have to work through all of the places where fans and media get most upset at athletes to what should be this excellent of a legacy. Top 13 MVP, 13 straight years. Change the entirety of the game. If Trevor Ariza makes five threes in a game, he'd be a champion. I mean, like you really have.

[Mike Ryan]

It's hard to be a champion. He'd make it to the NBA Finals and probably lose there because that's what he does. He doesn't win a championship. I have no idea what that dude's name is and neither does the majority of our audience. I'd say 99% of our audience was nodding in agreement. This dude is cooking. I don't care enough to look up his name. But he is dead on about James Harden. It is not a Teflon reputation whatsoever. He is a cautionary tale of, yeah, you can chase the money. Yeah, you can be like, it's everybody else's fault. You can demand the trades, you can make it an ugly scene, but at the end of the day, that is going to be your legacy. He didn't win a single title to erase that from his legacy. And I guess if he's even just a rotational player and wins a title, people won't even remember that because they'll remember the 15 years in which he did this every two and a half seasons.

[Chris]

Well, this is the curse of every great athlete who didn't win a championship. If James Harden won one championship along the way eight years ago or what have you, we're all talking about him and looking at him in a whole different light. I don't obsess over the lack of a championship with any great athlete. I look at them for what they're doing. He's a guy who chases money, who's never satisfied with a team. That's him. Respectfully, he's still a great player, an all time great, in my opinion.

[Mike Ryan]

Greg, respectfully, though, like, there are plenty of great players that don't have a ring. Charles Barkley doesn't get hit with. You didn't care enough. You didn't maximize your talent. You made a mess.

[Dan]

And he didn't come up smallest in the biggest moments.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, like there's so many famous players in that league that didn't win a championship that it's not held against them the way that it is with James Harden. Because the talent is there, the resume is there. Clearly, like the professionalism was lacking.

[Greg]

I know. Please forgive me because I tend to mix up teams sometimes when I'm looking back. But the James Harden team that lost at home in Game 7 to Golden State because they went 7:44 from three, that was the Kevin Durant Warriors.

[Mike Ryan]

Correct.

[Greg]

Like that. Was that not the.

[Dan]

I thought it was a 73 win. Warriors.

[Greg]

Oh, was it really? So?

[Dan]

I think so.

[Greg]

Okay, so. Okay, so it was the 73 Wind Warriors.