Local Hour: The Summer of Pablo

Summary

Summary of “Local Hour: The Summer of Pablo”

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz's episode titled "Local Hour: The Summer of Pablo", released on July 18, 2025, delves deep into the seismic shifts within the NFL Players Association (NFLPA) sparked by investigative journalist Pablo Torre. Hosted by Dan Le Batard and Stugotz, the episode offers a comprehensive discussion on sports journalism, union leadership, social media dynamics, and notable updates from the NBA.

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1. The Impact of Pablo Torre’s Reporting on the NFLPA

The episode opens with Stugotz highlighting the profound effect Pablo Torre’s reporting has had on the NFLPA. Torre’s investigative work has led to significant repercussions, including the resignation of Lloyd Howell, the NFLPA’s executive director.

Stugotz [02:14]:
"Is it the summer of Pablo Torre? It might be the summer of Pablo. Pablo right now is on an all-time tear. And now there are consequences for Pablo Torre’s incredible podcast. Pablo Torre finds out and it’s reporting as the NFL executive director Lloyd Howell. I'm so happy I didn't say Jerome Powell."

Pablo Torre [03:12]:
"It was a distraction thing too. And he says that in the letter. There's probably a lot of calls, a lot of back-end conversations, a lot of what the hell is going on?"

The discussion underscores how Torre’s relentless pursuit of truth and accountability in his reporting has forced NFLPA leadership to confront internal issues, demonstrating the essential role of journalism in organizational transparency.

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2. Union Leadership and Accountability

Pablo Torre offers his insights into the challenges facing the NFLPA, emphasizing the need for experienced leadership that prioritizes the union's mission over personal or political agendas.

Pablo Torre [05:18]:
"But here's the issue… the average NFL career as we know, is what, 3.3 years? Probably the average earnings is around 3 million. So take that and then stretch it over the amount of time from 21 to 65. And you'll see that it's actually not that different than normal people."

Stugotz and Torre discuss the inherent difficulties in balancing the short-span athletic careers with long-term financial stability for players. They critique the existing union leadership for failing to adequately represent and support players, especially when conflicts of interest arise.

Stugotz [06:01]:
"You got one side that has all the money… Can't afford a season not being played."

Pablo Torre [08:19]:
"So with the collusion and then the ensuing cover-up, is there a chance here that Howell was acting in the best interest, some sort of rationalization for his behavior?"

Their conversation highlights the necessity for the NFLPA to rebuild trust and ensure that future leadership is committed to genuinely advancing players' interests.

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3. Social Media Dynamics: The ‘Hawk Tua’ Phenomenon

Transitioning from union issues, the hosts shift focus to the volatile landscape of social media, specifically discussing the viral meme surrounding ‘Hawk Tua’.

Stugotz [19:32]:
"Everybody wants to laugh at the couple from the Coldplay concert."

Pablo Torre [22:34]:
"I just typed in my name and Tua and yeah, this is..."

The segment explores how internet moments can rapidly spiral out of control, affecting individuals' reputations and personal lives. They draw parallels to past incidents like the Tiffany Gouche meltdown, emphasizing the unpredictable and often harmful nature of viral content.

Jeremy [21:03]:
"It's just everyone of every race, of every religion, of every creed just getting jokes off."

The hosts express concern over the lack of longevity in these viral moments, hoping that the backlash remains fleeting and doesn’t result in long-term damage.

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4. NBA News: Damian Lillard Returns to Portland

Shifting gears to the NBA, the episode covers Damian Lillard’s decision to return to the Portland Trail Blazers, a move met with both enthusiasm and skepticism.

Stugotz [28:34]:
"Did you see the shocking NBA news?… Damian Lillard… decides he's going back to Portland."

Jeremy [29:27]:
"I think it's an awesome story. It reminds me a little bit obviously of when Dwyane Wade got traded back here after being in Chicago..."

The hosts analyze Lillard's return as a strategic choice to end his career where he feels most connected, despite the challenges of competing for a championship. They discuss the implications for both Lillard’s legacy and the Trail Blazers' future prospects.

Pablo Torre [32:08]:
"He is going to go back to a fan base that just loves him."

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5. Mike Williams’ Retirement from the NFL

Towards the episode's conclusion, the hosts touch upon the unexpected retirement of NFL player Mike Williams at the age of 30, contemplating its impact on his legacy.

Stugotz [35:40]:
"There was a wide receiver that retired from the NFL yesterday… Mike Williams."

Pablo Torre [40:07]:
"He kept roasting them the rest of the show… Every time they showed a couple on the screen."

The conversation reflects on the parallels between Williams’ retirement and other player exits, emphasizing the emotional and professional factors influencing such decisions.

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Notable Quotes

• Stugotz [02:14]:
  "Is it the summer of Pablo Torre? It might be the summer of Pablo."

• Pablo Torre [05:18]:
  "…you have all the money… it’s actually not that different than normal people."

• Jeremy [21:03]:
  "It's just everyone of every race, of every religion, of every creed just getting jokes off."

• Pablo Torre [32:08]:
  "He is going to go back to a fan base that just loves him."

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Conclusion

This episode of The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz masterfully interweaves critical discussions on sports journalism's role in organizational accountability, the intricate dynamics of player unions, the ephemeral yet impactful nature of social media phenomena, and significant movements within the NBA. Through insightful dialogue and expert opinions, Dan Le Batard and Stugotz provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the current sports landscape, making the episode both informative and engaging for those who haven't tuned in.

Transcript

[Dan Le Batard]

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[Stugotz]

Now's a good time to remember where tequila's story truly began. In 1795, Cuervo invented tequila.

[Pablo Torre]

Cuervo.

[Stugotz]

What are you doing here?

[Pablo Torre]

Cuervo?

[Andrew Hawkins]

Anytime someone says Cuervo, I show up.

[Stugotz]

Well, I do know that to be true. But even during ad reads like Cuervo, I think he could lay out, especially for one of our great partners.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Sweet, delicious Cuervo.

[Stugotz]

Since then, Cuervo has stayed true to its roots. The same family, the same land, the same passion.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Cuervo.

[Stugotz]

So enjoy the tequila that started it all. Cuervo.

[Pablo Torre]

Cuervo.

[Stugotz]

The tequila that invented tequila. Proximo. Cuervo.com, please drink responsibly.

[Andrew Hawkins]

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[Pablo Torre]

This is the Dan Levator show with the Stugats podcast.

[Stugotz]

Is it the summer of Pablo Torre? It might be the summer of Pablo. Pablo right now is on an all time tear. And now there are consequences for Pablo Torres. Incredible podcast. Pablo Torre finds out and it's reporting as the, the NFL executive director Lloyd Howell. I'm so happy I didn't say Jerome Powell. It's, it's a tricky time, especially with like there being a white Jerome and all. Pretty crazy. But Lloyd Howell has stepped down and all indications are this is because of the incredible reporting of Pablo Torre. That is real consequences, real reporting that it's actually quite refreshing to have respected journalism being done and to not have the person at the center of the turmoil say it's all fake and actually have shame about it and is actually held accountable and step down. I imagine this is because a ton of pressure from the nflpa because like a lot of people, like Pablo Torre's audience, they found out together.

[Pablo Torre]

I think it was a distraction thing too. And he says that in the letter. There's probably a lot of calls, a lot of back, back end conversations, a lot of what the hell is going on? And it didn't stop. It was like, you know, the smoke and there's fire and there just kept being more and more and more smoke. And there's a part of me that is like, hey, they feel like they had to stop the bleeding because it was, it's probably going to continue to unravel, is my opinion. I mean, if I know Pablo over this last summer.

[Stugotz]

The summer of Pablo.

[Pablo Torre]

Summer of Pablo, yeah.

[Stugotz]

I would expect there to be more in Pablo already uncovered more. And when you get to the territory where the first one's not an outlier and there's a second one and then you have a resignation, you kind of, you kind of think that there's more there. And now Domino's on the case. You have award winning journalists probing and digging deeper. We saw what happened yesterday with the Wall Street Journal's reporting and I would say that for those that don't know, Rupert Murdoch, notoriously pro conservative icon, also owns the Wall Street Journal, I imagine they were prepared for. It's all fake. I didn't write that letter. And there's probably more going there. We'll see. But certainly a huge transition point for the NFL pa. I wonder where they go from here, who they trust. I don't know if this is going to mean seismic change, but I guess the executive director stepping down Hawk, is pretty seismic.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, it should be seismic. And I mean, look, I've, I've, obviously I've been a, I've been a player rep, as a player. I come from a family of athletes that have been in the NFL and obviously a part of the pa. So my first exposure to the union was not just me as a football player. Right. Like I have real family that I've seen the struggles and everything that goes into being an NFL player during, before and after. So this is a, a, a topic, a, an organization that means quite a lot to me because I understand what happens to these players. And it's tough because it feels like, okay, it's a union for rich people. Yes. They make a lot of money early on.

[Stugotz]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

But here's the issue.

[Stugotz]

It's a misnomer, right?

[Pablo Torre]

It is because to get to that position, this takes almost every waking moment of your life in focus from the age of like 8 or 9 to put yourself in position to make this kind of money. And the average NFL, NFL career as we know, is what, 3.3 years? Probably the average earnings is around 3 million. So take that and then stretch it over the amount of time from 21 to 65. And you'll see that it's actually not that different than normal people. Yeah, you can go get a job afterwards. But I am telling you, it is hard to be both an elite level NFL player and expert at something else right out of football.

[Stugotz]

It's why you guys face such an uphill battle every time there's a work stoppage.

[Pablo Torre]

Absolutely.

[Stugotz]

You got one side that has all the money, that has generational. We can't afford actually a season, even though it's a huge economy. Can't afford a season not being played.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Stugotz]

Whereas the average NFL player has that three year lifespan. Is trying to get to the point where maybe I can get to a second contract and set up generational wealth. And right now, if I have a work stoppage, I lose 25% of my athletic prime. You can't do that. And that's why there haven't been work stoppages really since before I was born.

[Pablo Torre]

It's tough, it's, it's tough to put yourself in a position of leverage to actually get things that chip away. Not only that, the issues that are voted on or that are talked about are exclusively done with current players. Now here's my issue with that. And it sounds like, oh, this is the old player who has an issue because now he's the old player. No, we all understand experience and time. With that comes wisdom. With that comes, man, I wish I would have done X, Y and Z different. A lot of the success that I've had post NFL career, even during my NFL career off the field, is not because I'm Smarter than anybody. No, it's because like I told you, I had family that said, hey, I did it this way. This was right. I did these things, these were wrong. Do this right. So I had the answers to the test. And for a lot of the current players, you're voting and you're discussing things and you're making decisions that don't have the experience that people who have gone through this and that are dealing with some of the voting that happened when they were players later on. I say that because when you have leadership, and here is the biggest issue and why this was the result and had to be the result, when you have leadership that is worried about positioning themselves, when you have leadership that have goals that put them in front of what the actual mission of the organization is. Leadership that wants to make decisions in a vacuum without considering the opinions and how it affects everybody else. Yeah, those are all symptoms of bad leadership. And you know what comes with bad leadership? Bad results. Right. And, and that is not just Lloyd Howe, that is any of them. So that is my issue and that is why this needed to happen. And I'm hoping going forward they put somebody in that seat who understands the mission that they're fighting for and it's tied to it more than just this is a great job that pays three plus million dollars.

[Stugotz]

So with the collusion and then the ensuing cover up, is there a chance here that Howell was acting in the best interest, some sort of rationalization for his behavior? Or is he just fully corrupt and just in the pocket of the NFL? Yeah, and if so, what are the lessons here for the NFLPA moving forward to make sure something like this doesn't.

[Pablo Torre]

Happen again, I will not say that he was fully corrupt. I won't even say anybody who was a part of the decision to keep these things under wraps until Pablo boot the top off didn't have the maybe that the in their mind, what was the best interest?

[Stugotz]

Yeah, that's what I want to seize on the union. Like what, what would be the rationalization? Like let's bury this because it serves the interest of our union. I'm, I'm struggling to wrap my head around those are not necessarily bad people. You can find plenty of people that say good things about Treader and Howell. So what, what was the rationalization? I find it hard to believe that it was just all sinister. Let's just help the people that were supposed to be representing our union against. Let's, let's help them out. I'm sure there was some sort of rationalization there and that's what's missing for me. What kind of possible benefit to the base were they exploring to help them do this?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I can't speak to that because I'm not in those conversations, and I probably haven't talked with enough people to make that determination. But if I was to guess, I would say it was trying to avoid a situation just like this. Not because you're being ousted or you have to resign or people are questioning your leadership, but because now you have the union questioning, like, their position, and there's going to be a bunch of opinions around it, and it basically is a divided group. Okay, we went in here. Let's say we lost the running back issue that Pablo talked about, there was a collusion, and whatever the quid pro quo was to say, hey, we're all going to keep this buried. Well, maybe it's because we know what's coming up and we don't want the players so focused on questioning leadership that we lose our ability to come together and try to rally for what the big conversation is. That's just a guess.

[Stugotz]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, but how do you fix it going forward? What I've always said to anybody who will listen at the union or the pa since a player and beyond is what I just talked about. I love to hear Dominique Foxworth talk about the PA union and. And the issues that face player unions. Not because he's smart, of course he's smart.

[Chris Cody]

On side with him, by the way.

[Pablo Torre]

Harvard biz, business School, all those things. But more than that is he gives the damn. You know, he gives the. He gives the damn because it's connected to him and he has friends that he's seen struggle. Does Dominique Foxworth need all the benefits that come with the pa? I'm sure at some point he's used them. He doesn't probably need them. I might not need him as much as the next guy, but it's not about me. And I understand that spectrum of players that you're representing and trying to put in a better situation than the players that came before us had it. And that connectivity is what draws me to it. Right. There's generations, and we are all tied together. And I don't think the PA has done a good enough job of bringing all those generations together collectively. Because the more information you have, the better decisions, the more informed those decisions are. That arm you to make that progress.

[Chris Cody]

Hawk, I love that. But you invoke the name of Dominique Foxworth. Did you know that he basically, basically called you a bad scout? Did you have you heard that yet?

[Pablo Torre]

No, I have not.

[Chris Cody]

Okay. He said your eyes. He said your eyes are. He doesn't like him.

[Pablo Torre]

What?

[Stugotz]

What?

[Chris Cody]

He says your eye for talent. He doesn't like it because he said that I wasn't able to play at a low level college football as a tight end. So he's going to.

[Pablo Torre]

He doesn't think you could play at a low level tight end.

[Chris Cody]

Exactly.

[Pablo Torre]

How does he know he hasn't played low level football?

[Chris Cody]

That's what I'm saying.

[Pablo Torre]

You know, he hasn't seen that. He doesn't know him. I, as a. I was a guy who paid his first semester playing college football. I know what the walk on experience is like. Okay. I know walk ons across the country. I had to stack myself against them to get out of that zone. I know you could have fit in the walk on.

[Chris Cody]

Thank you, Hawk. And Dominique was laughing, saying that Hawk was making fun of you. Basically saying that. And what I'm telling you is that he said that you do not have an eye for town.

[Pablo Torre]

That's what he said. Crazy.

[Chris Cody]

But we did. Jeremy put together a list of schools that I could have played for. If we had that situation, I would have gone down that path.

[Jeremy]

Yeah, we went through it. I mean, from Cleveland, Ohio, Case Western Reserve University, Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh, Claremont Mud Scripps College in Claremont, California, of course, Buena Vista University in Storm Lake, Iowa.

[Stugotz]

Go Beeves.

[Jeremy]

I mean Vermont State, State University, Castleton campus In Castleton, Vermont, St. Olaf College in Northfield, Minnesota.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes.

[Jeremy]

The College of St. Scholastica in Duluth, Minnesota. And of course from Tiffin, Ohio, Heidelberg University.

[Pablo Torre]

Heidelberg, Yeah.

[Chris Cody]

I mean, come on.

[Jeremy]

He could have played at any of those.

[Chris Cody]

I could have gone to any of those.

[Jeremy]

Let's be real.

[Chris Cody]

Dominique was laughing, saying that. No, that's not true.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, no, you definitely could have played for those schools.

[Chris Cody]

I just wanted to let you know that it's on site with Dominique. With me.

[Dan Le Batard]

Why didn't you?

[Chris Cody]

Because I ended up trying to play basketball.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh.

[Pablo Torre]

And most of those schools are basically like, if. No offense. Here comes the offensive part. If you have a pulse, you can get on this.

[Stugotz]

Yeah.

[Chris Cody]

I feel like you got two legs.

[Pablo Torre]

There's no scholarship. You got two legs, go. It's like maybe we need the numbers.

[Dan Le Batard]

A two sport athlete at those schools. Why didn't you consider it?

[Chris Cody]

Because you know what? I didn't want to go to Heidelberg.

[Pablo Torre]

He could have been as many sport athlete as he wanted to be.

[Chris Cody]

Certainly at Heidelberg, at Buena Vista College, Tour University. I don't know if it's University or college? I don't remember.

[Jeremy]

Buena Vista University.

[Chris Cody]

University. Okay.

[Jeremy]

It's pretty funny that that's Beaver Storm Lake, Iowa.

[Chris Cody]

Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Those are real options or did we just make those?

[Jeremy]

No, those were all real Division 3 college football programs.

[Pablo Torre]

Oh I thought they were like.

[Chris Cody]

They were not.

[Dan Le Batard]

They were zero actual offers.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah okay.

[Chris Cody]

Cuz I. I went to play basketball.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah yeah.

[Chris Cody]

But the whole point is it's on site with Dominique. Anytime he's here in Miami, it's on site and I've declared that. So I don't know if you want to join me because he said that you don't have a good eye for talent.

[Pablo Torre]

That's crazy.

[Chris Cody]

I think that you would need to.

[Dan Le Batard]

Are you afraid you're now recruiting people?

[Chris Cody]

No, no, no. I'm just. Because he's been.

[Stugotz]

No.

[Chris Cody]

Cuz he's been offended by Dominique Foxworth and now I wanted to see that bothered.

[Pablo Torre]

No, I mean it's pretty offended man. Anytime you talk about my afro talent.

[Chris Cody]

Exactly right. That's literally prides himself in that I.

[Pablo Torre]

Pride myself on my ability to project people's top end. Exactly.

[Dan Le Batard]

Dominique fought for your ability to protect your eyes for talent.

[Pablo Torre]

So yeah.

[Dan Le Batard]

A little respect for him.

[Pablo Torre]

You're right.

[Stugotz]

He didn't want you to die on that. Tony Hill. I do think that if you just express interest in playing football for these programs they take a look at.

[Chris Cody]

I could probably go right now and.

[Stugotz]

See your measurables and be like yeah we could. We could. Let's. Let's bring in. Let's see what we can use.

[Chris Cody]

I mean run a couple routes, get a chip block off.

[Dan Le Batard]

Did you graduate college?

[Pablo Torre]

Do you still have. Yes, I graduated.

[Chris Cody]

I did graduate.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, I'm not asking like not disrespectful tone.

[Chris Cody]

That's true.

[Pablo Torre]

If you go back and get a masters you could probably get.

[Jeremy]

That's true.

[Chris Cody]

I don't have any. I don't have any. I have eligibility cuz I didn't.

[Pablo Torre]

Your clock might have started though, right? It's like when you enroll your. I think you have like six years to play for.

[Chris Cody]

Yeah but what if you go to the army or like a missions trip. You come back Brandon Weeden's like, you.

[Pablo Torre]

Know, you should join the army so.

[Dan Le Batard]

That you then can try to join the reserves.

[Chris Cody]

Right. And then go to whatever. Reserve college.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Dan Le Batard]

Thank you for your college full of reserves. Yeah.

[Chris Cody]

You'd go don't mention it.

[Dan Le Batard]

Join the armed services and then you go back and then you fight for your Covid year and I feel like.

[Chris Cody]

You Might have a shot gray shirt somewhere.

[Pablo Torre]

There's also colleges that aren't a part of the ncaa and there's like NIA schools. Absolutely. There's no rules.

[Jeremy]

And I think you only have to just enroll in in one class. Right, because you could be a grad transfer. Right. So you got to be already graduated.

[Pablo Torre]

You got to be a full time student or something.

[Jeremy]

All right, so just take like 12 credits worth of like the history of rock and roll online.

[Chris Cody]

That's nothing. Yeah, I like Buena Vista though. I got my eye on them.

[Jeremy]

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[Mike Ryan]

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[Dominique Foxworth]

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[Stugotz]

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[Pablo Torre]

Don LeBatard.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Mike Bryan's in there and he's the.

[Stugotz]

One with a baby. He's the one who's gotta like worry about what the future is. And Mike Ryan bet on DraftKings because Mike Ryan bet on us. This is the bet you're afraid of.

[Andrew Hawkins]

Doubling down on putting up a billboard in Edmonton.

[Stugotz]

Stugats. I care more about Matthew Tkachuk than I do my daughter.

[Pablo Torre]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats.

[Stugotz]

It probably made a misstep and leading with the Summer Pablo news, but it was breaking news that happened overnight and we have a former high ranking member of the players union in the studio with us and Andrew Hawkins. So I wanted to take advantage of that. Everybody wants to laugh at the couple from the Coldplay concert. And Jeremy, you didn't get your shots off yesterday. You were workshopping a take that this is the best Internet moment that has nothing to do with politics. Since when?

[Jeremy]

I'm not even sure because to me it's been so Long since we've had one of these moments where just everyone is in on it making jokes. There's no political division. You look at the replies on Twitter and there's not people trying to turn it into something on either side of the political spectrum. It's just everyone of every race, of every religion, of every creed just getting jokes off. And it feels like twit. I think I saw Katie Nolan say that it feels like Twitter in 2014. Like, it just feels like the most pure version of what it is that we used to do. And yes. Will it ultimately end in these people's lives being ruined? Yeah, but this is a great moment.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, it's a. Yeah. The. The Internet occasionally rises to the occasion, says, hey, in one bipartisan voice, let's destroy these people's lives.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Jeremy]

The last 24 hours have been just a collection of people from both sides of the aisle saying, it's fun to make fun of this couple.

[Stugotz]

Yeah. It's already pretty bad. Let's make it worse.

[Jeremy]

Yeah, for sure.

[Stugotz]

So that's what's going on right now. I would. I think the best Internet moment. And now this did include politics, but the last one that kind of took over was the Vance memes. And I think Hawk mentioned before the show, like Hawk to a. Probably that had no politics because it.

[Jeremy]

Has his name in it.

[Pablo Torre]

Definitely Hawk to it. And I don't know if it's an algorithm thing, because also, I don't even know the JD Vance moment you're talking about.

[Stugotz]

No, the memes that came out of the Oval Office, meaning you haven't seen the.

[Pablo Torre]

Not on black Twitter. So I'm trying to tell you, I don't think.

[Stugotz]

Wow.

[Pablo Torre]

It didn't. It didn't cross over. This crossed over to everybody's Twitter.

[Stugotz]

Funny. He has a Jerry curl on the photo of all things. J.D. vance.

[Pablo Torre]

I wish I have seen the meme on my. On my very probably black centric algorithm. I don't know no black Twitter. The last time something happened like that was the.

[Chris Cody]

The fight in Montgomery.

[Jeremy]

That's a good one.

[Stugotz]

That one did get politicized, right?

[Pablo Torre]

It did. It did.

[Jeremy]

And Hawk two. Eventually.

[Pablo Torre]

There's two different angles on that one. Hawk to it at the beginning was like. I feel like it was a, you know, unison, this is a funny moment type of thing. And then it got too much. Very much like this. This moment where everybody kind of has the similar take.

[Jeremy]

Do you remember the. The blue and black dress versus white and gold when everybody. This is what that feels like. Just this pure Moment of everyone on the Internet talking about the same thing without hopefully the opportunity for it to go anywhere political. Inevitably, this guy is going to end up hosting his own podcast or they're going to have a reality.

[Stugotz]

He's going to come. He's already being pitched on. What is your brand? What does your brand mean to you? We need people alerted to your brand.

[Jeremy]

I can't wait for that.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm showing you just. I just typed in my name and Tua and yeah, this is. This is. This is days ago. This is not like a lot. This is every day live in a.

[Stugotz]

Unique hellscape here on social media. Is this a Hawk? Everyone is asking, is this Hawk Tua? Is this Hawk Tua? So it's every day.

[Pablo Torre]

I just get.

[Stugotz]

Because you have the great handle of ad hoc.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Yes.

[Chris Cody]

It's like they're asking you, is this Hawk Tua? So they're asking Tua if this is Hawk.

[Pablo Torre]

No. Well, they're asking.

[Stugotz]

So once people are asking, Twitter rock, is this Hawk?

[Pablo Torre]

Rock, is this true? You know, it's like, at Grok, is this true? And then there was a. But there's a bug on Twitter that if you just do anything similar, Grok was like chiming in. And so since Hawk was a similar to Grok and Tua was similar to true, I just get everyday random tweets of at Hawk, is this Tua?

[Dan Le Batard]

How'd you get at, like, did you have to buy that or you just got in early?

[Pablo Torre]

I. There was a guy that had it. He lived in Mexico. And this is before I was anybody. And I'm still not anybody, but you get what I'm saying? And I was like, man, I would like to graduate from young baby Hawk, which was my Twitter name at the beginning. And so we followed each other and he had. He was a Giants fan. And so I was, at one point, I'm like, hey, what's up, man? He's like, yeah, I'm not looking to sell it. I'm like, what if I got you a signed Eli Manning jersey? Oh. He was like, now you're talking. So I did that and sent him a signed Eli Manning jersey and he gave me the name.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's it. Just an Elijah.

[Pablo Torre]

Yep, yep. And again, my. My cousin's signature looked just like Eli. So really the price was about $79. It wasn't just. And it might have been a knockoff jersey. It's like buying a off wide receiver a watch so he can take his number. There you go.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, but you got it across. All Social platforms.

[Pablo Torre]

I did. Now, that was a little bit. Then you had to know some people.

[Stugotz]

It started to, like, Then you had to become somebody.

[Pablo Torre]

Then you had to become somebody. And then when the platforms were introduced, they would hold the name. It was. They would reach out to me and be like, hey, this is some deep state they were at. New platform. Do you want ad hoc? That's somebody hold it.

[Stugotz]

Yeah, that's. That is absolutely.

[Dan Le Batard]

If I've ever heard somebody.

[Pablo Torre]

Thank you.

[Dan Le Batard]

That.

[Pablo Torre]

Thank you. Thank you, thank you.

[Stugotz]

What. Where does the story go from. From here, Jeremy. Because hopefully it doesn't go to the obvious place of the Internet's gonna destroy these people's lives. Hopefully it also doesn't become, like, a Tiffany Gomesh type of thing. You know, that was another one where the Internet kind of got behind and in unison, and it wasn't political until she decided to make it. That MF her over there is not real. Having the. Having the meltdown on. Right.

[Chris Cody]

I didn't know her from.

[Jeremy]

That was a good basis.

[Pablo Torre]

That was a good one.

[Stugotz]

Yeah.

[Chris Cody]

Who the F is that? Or that thing isn't real?

[Stugotz]

And then she became, like, she had an apology two weeks later, definitely, like a manicured apology, and had, like, people reach out to her and say, what do we do? How do we turn you into a brand?

[Jeremy]

The very best case scenario is that this basically runs its course over a week, and then we never hear from them again. Right. Like, that's the best case. Because you never want it to evolve to the place where now either we have to feel bad for the way that we piled on, or we learned other stuff about these people that isn't just funny that Chris Martin started to ask every single couple shown on the screen at the concert after that, are you a real or legitimate couple?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Stugotz]

He kept roasting them.

[Jeremy]

Kept roasting them the rest of the show. Every time they showed a couple on the screen, and in the singular moment, I'm sure he's not thinking. I don't think anyone is thinking that video is going to go viral. Right.

[Stugotz]

Nobody's thinking about, like, who's whipped out their phone to record the. The Jumbo Tron.

[Jeremy]

Exactly. And so, like, that was why I was wondering what the reaction was from them.

[Pablo Torre]

Everybody. You know how that's how the video, like, came about. Somebody tweeted, does anybody have the video of that couple at the Coldplay concert? And then I think somebody, quote, tweeted with that video, and then maybe it.

[Stugotz]

Ends with Chris Martin singing at their wedding.

[Jeremy]

Like, that would be. That would be the. All right, that is the best case scenario in the long run for them.

[Pablo Torre]

How is the company stock? What if the stock was down and this was all a.

[Jeremy]

That's a Nathan Fielder ass plan if I've ever heard.

[Pablo Torre]

Can we get Pablo to find out if. If the company he's the CEO of set this up for the amount of. Think about it. I mean, imagine how many times this company has been mentioned in the last 24 hours.

[Stugotz]

Well, if he's CEO of a public company, he's going to be all right. He should. He should be fine either way. Well, just saying you should. He should be fine.

[Pablo Torre]

Stocks up, isn't it, Jamie?

[Chris Cody]

Big news out of the Big Easy. UFC 318 is about to go down in New Orleans and this card is absolutely stacked. We got Dustin Poirier versus Max Holloway 3 as the headliner. And it's Dustin Poirier's last walk to the Octagon, the final chapter with his legacy on the line. And you know, DraftKings Sportsbook, the official sports betting partner of the UFC, is locked in with all the action, parlays, props, knockout, odds, you name it. And if you're new, listen to this bet just 5 bucks can get 150 bucks in bonus bets instantly. Just like that. Download the DraftKings sportsbook app now and use Code Dan. That's Code Dan for new customers to get 150 bucks in bonus bets instantly. When you bet just five bucks only on DraftKings, the crown is yours.

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[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, wow.

[Pablo Torre]

It's in there.

[Stugotz]

It's better.

[Chris Cody]

You think I haven't been practicing St.

[Stugotz]

I didn't real a substitute. Complicated Legacy headquarters.

[Chris Cody]

441 Power Line Road. Second down to nine.

[Pablo Torre]

This is the D Ler show with the St. Gads.

[Stugotz]

Did you see the shocking NBA news? I don't know how they kept this secret. There were no whispers. There was no NBA Sentel. We all just kind of thought that maybe Damen Lillard would get a surgery and, and, and if he makes a decision, it's closer to camp. But out of nowhere, Damian Lillard, much of the he Twitter dismay, by the way, decides he's going to go back to Portland. You want to talk about a nice story? That is a wonderful bow on his career. He's going to make a decent amount of money for a guy his age coming off of that injury. And Portland gets to have their legend back at a, at a steep discount from what it would have been had they caved and given him his contract. And you want to talk about consensus where everyone is on the same side. I think even Heat fans would say that of all the destinations that Damian Lillard could go to, this is the one that makes everybody happy.

[Jeremy]

I think it's an awesome story. It reminds me a little bit obviously of when Dwyane Wade got traded back here after being in Chicago and then Cleveland where it just didn't work out.

[Stugotz]

I don't think that happened. Neither of those two things happened.

[Jeremy]

But going Rocky 5, going to Milwaukee and having that experience, obviously, like, look, the guy they're getting back here is not the same guy that they would have been signing to the contract. It's several years later post Achilles injury. It's a different thing than continuing to pay him to be there and mentor those guys for the last couple of years. At the same time, you know, they're in a decent enough spot now. Yong Han Sen, that guy is. Has an opportunity to be really special if they can find a way to put that together. His touch as a passer, the big tariff crazy in, in the summer league, but it's, it's pretty cool to, to see him go back. Like you love those storybook endings for superstars. And it did not look like that was what was going to get to happen for Damian Lillard. He was going to sign somewhere that would have been another destination rehab for a year, maybe end up as, you know, a guy off the bench for some other franchise and who knows, maybe that's what he ends up doing in Portland. But to have an opportunity to kind of repair whatever hurt was there and go back to a fan base that just loves him.

[Pablo Torre]

It's.

[Jeremy]

It's special. I'm, I'm certainly really happy for him.

[Stugotz]

I think Hawk's got to have a unique perspective here because while I'm sure and we know Damian from his playing days, absolute killer, right. I don't think he's signing up with Portland to be like, okay, we'll be a fringe play in team as I, as I wind down my career and I'll be just uber popular and I'll be ceremonial and it'll feel a lot like D. Wade back in Miami and, and people forget D. Wade was pretty good that last hurrah. They were, they were pesky. They would have gotten into a play in if a play in was around back then, and he probably would have had one last go. But it seems like a guy that is totally comfortable with his legacy. He made it to one Western Conference finals. He tried to do the ring chasing thing with Milwaukee. Well, initially with Miami didn't get. The thing that does irk me is you're like the first superstar that didn't get his way that tried this. Like, you made it very clear you wanted to go to Miami and they sent your ass to Milwaukee. You hated it, and now you're coming back to Portland after they treated you that way. That's the only, that's the only thing I kind of like. And that's a Heat fandom perspective on this. I'm like, what did they do to you that made you think that going back was the brightest of ideas? But he has obvious ties to this place. And like I said, it seems like a guy that is very comfortable with his legacy. I don't, I don't think an NBA championship is in the cards for, for Portland over the, this contract's full term. He is going there to ride out the end of his career, make the most of it. Certainly not punting on being competitive. That's not how he's built.

[Pablo Torre]

Right.

[Stugotz]

But it doesn't seem like it's the most important thing. He tried ring chasing. He wasn't happy. He wants to go back to his happy place. And you're, you're a guy that went to training camp with the greatest dynasty of the modern era.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, man, in the New England pages. Legend in that way. Played with some of the goats you had. Gronkowski, heard of him? Tom Brady. Are any of these names familiar to you guys? I'm getting, I'm getting worked up over here. No, I think for him it was more of a. It's a comfort thing, man. When you go, it sucks going to new teams. Like, even for NFL players. I know it's like business, like, especially when you're in a place that became home. You know, you know the front office people, you know the social media people, you know the people that work at the stadiums. You bought your first house here. You kind of became an adult in this place. You know the streets, you know the stores that you like, you know, the. The coffee shops and the places you like to eat, and then you're going to a new team, and you got to relearn all that.

[Stugotz]

And there were places like that in.

[Pablo Torre]

Cleveland, and there were places like that. Yeah, they were great places. And I love Cleveland. That was like Milan of the Midwest. I. I loved. And that's why I'm looked at as an Ohio guy, because I bounced around there so much in so many places. And honestly, in free agency, I was like, I want to go to Cleveland because I don't want to leave Ohio. I like it here. I've been here. I'm good here. And then after Cleveland, it was like, okay, there's a rebuild, and we're gonna suck. We already sucked. We're gonna suck even more.

[Stugotz]

He won one game in two years.

[Pablo Torre]

And it got worse.

[Stugotz]

Wait, we're gonna. We're gonna get worse.

[Pablo Torre]

Like, oh, you ain't seen nothing yet.

[Stugotz]

All right, so you made the decision. You were a really productive player. You made a lot of money in the league.

[Pablo Torre]

I have my money, and I'm like, okay, I'm on the other side of 30. I'm not going to continue to increase my money. And that's kind of where Dame Lillard is. It's like, once you are no longer getting more money, now you're looking for, okay, let me get to a comfortable place where I can do the best I can in places where I feel comfortable, because I don't feel like learning a new place and system and people. And so I went to New England, but I didn't want to go to New England at first. Like, New England. I would have stayed in New England, which I retired early. I would have stayed if the contract wasn't like, a minimum. A minimum deal. It was like, oh, this ain't worth it. I made X Amount, and now I'm here, and I don't like it. So there wasn't a money incentive for me to stick around to tough it out. I would have went to Cincinnati, and I told my agent. I was like, yo, call Cincinnati. Cincinnati was so pissed because the way I left there for Cleveland and didn't tell anybody in restricted free agency, they had no idea, like, what was going on behind the scenes where I'm like, yeah, I'm out of here, and I'm gonna figure this out. And I did it. And that's, like, their rival. And they were so pissed about it. They were like, yeah, nah, it ain't happening. Like, piss off. Like you. They felt betrayed by what I did. So it wasn't a thing. But really, I told my agent. I was like, if I can't go play at Cincinnati, I need to go somewhere where I could at least try to get a ring or. Or I' ma call it up. Like, it's. It's one of those places Chicago offered me. They were going to pay me triple what New England was going to pay me. They're like, just come visit. I was like, no, I don't. I don't want to go play in Chicago. No disrespect to Chicago, but like I told you, I didn't feel like going to a new environment where there was no upside, like, learning new people. All this and we're still not going to be good. It's going to be another lateral move.

[Chris Cody]

Triple the money, though, I mean.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, triple the money New England was giving me, which was minimum.

[Chris Cody]

You could tough it off for a year.

[Pablo Torre]

Nah, man, I couldn't. I had to get started on this budding media career. Nah, Podcast. Podcasts were waiting.

[Chris Cody]

Chicago's a big city. You could have done a podcast at the house.

[Pablo Torre]

It's too cold, man. It's too cold.

[Chris Cody]

And Cincinnati and Cleveland aren't.

[Pablo Torre]

Not in Chicago. Not. Not in Chicago.

[Stugotz]

Really? I mean, they're both on. Cleveland and Chicago are. Both.

[Pablo Torre]

Cincinnati's not as cold as Cleveland or Chicago. But again, like, to be cold and lose games. I don't think you understand what that, like, it's not just, oh, it's called no. To be cold and get your ass kicked.

[Chris Cody]

Probably not great.

[Pablo Torre]

It is not. You talk about a terrible feeling. Didn't like it.

[Stugotz]

Did the Patriots win the super bowl that year? No.

[Pablo Torre]

No, they went and they lost to the Eagles.

[Stugotz]

Right. So it's interesting you and Dominique get compared to a lot because the story arc is very similar in terms of, like, involved with the union. You both kind of retired.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Stugotz]

Before an opportunity to make it to the Super Bowl. In Dominique's case, the Ravens actually won the Super Bowl.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. It sucks.

[Stugotz]

The year after he retired. So as, like, the Patriots are making the run, you obviously make the retirement decision, knowing there's probably a good chance this is a championship team. Like, you're there. It's Tom Brady, it's Gronk. You know, they're pretty.

[Pablo Torre]

That's why you go in the first.

[Stugotz]

Proof of concept over there. They know what they're doing. They've been to a couple of them.

[Pablo Torre]

They tell you that when you come, like, when you visit. They were like, we're going to win. The division. We're going to have a bye week, and then if we win three games, that. That's the determining of. Of the season.

[Stugotz]

And you knew that. You're like, I'm good.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, man, I wasn't.

[Stugotz]

No regrets.

[Pablo Torre]

No regrets. And I know Dominique. I don't know if he talks about it, but I would imagine, yeah, I've.

[Stugotz]

Talked to him about it. I'm like, they won the Super Bowl.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't think that that's a. It's a big deal for everybody because you want it to be the case as it pertains to your career, and you want to be a champion, but that's just not everybody's goal. You don't. Like, you're not going to lose sleep over winning the super bowl just because the percentage of people that do it is so few. And it's a lot of luck involved, and you could be really good, but if you don't have the right quarterback to win the super bowl, it's not going to happen. I just. I wanted to play one game in the NFL. That was my lifelong dream. I could not reset my brain to be like, I gotta win a Super Bowl. I got. That wasn't. I'm like, I'm going to be a really good player. I want to do my best, and I want to get out of here and be able to go get a job.

[Stugotz]

No part of the ego. That's like, if I was here, we would have won it.

[Pablo Torre]

No, not even a little bit. And then Edelman got hurt, like, the first week of the season. You know, it was like, stepped in right there.

[Stugotz]

I mean, you would maybe had one of the better years.

[Pablo Torre]

I was good. I was so over football.

[Dan Le Batard]

Didn't you tell us during the draft, watch along that you wanted to retire after your first season? Your brother had to talk you out of it.

[Pablo Torre]

He had to talk me out of retiring. So after my first season in the NFL, I played for my childhood team, and they gave me my first chance. And I'm like, yo, not only did I. Not only did I make the team, I have stats, bro. So that you can never look back at the NFL and say, I wasn't there. I sat in my brother's office, and I was like, yo, man, I think I'm gonna retire. He was like, what? It's like, yeah, man. Something, I guess. We did it. Damn it. We did it, brother. High five. And he was like, okay. I mean, you don't want to try to get a second contract? I'm like, yo, there's no way I can get a second contract. Like, I'm like, in my mind, I'm like, I'm still tricking these people. They're. They're gonna catch on to me eventually. It ain't tricking if you got it, we're good. It's not tricky if you got. I didn't know I had it, though.

[Chris Cody]

That's the thing.

[Stugotz]

You had imposter syndrome.

[Pablo Torre]

I did have imposter syndrome.

[Stugotz]

Your problem.

[Dan Le Batard]

No heart. That was your problem.

[Pablo Torre]

Maybe that. I hear that a lot at 57 playing in the NFL. I hear it all the time.

[Stugotz]

Like, world's first undersized receiver. It's like, you know what? The intangible's not there with this guy.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. When I would head up with Ray Allen or Ray. Ray Lewis at 5 7, that's what everyone told me. You don't have any heart. But, yeah, I was good, man. I was content. And I'm not kidding. I genuinely was content after year one, and I was ready to go get a job and jump into the workforce and figure things out afterwards. And he was like, keep playing. You might get a second contract. I'm like, all right, we'll see.

[Stugotz]

There was a wide receiver that retired from the NFL yesterday that many people would have thought had more in the tank. Mike Williams, at age 30, he's made some money in the league. Mike Williams. I don't know. People, unlike you, people, have gone at Mike Williams for his passion for the game.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Stugotz]

And I guess I'll hold this up as the. The final nail in that coffin in terms of what his legacy will be. But what'd you make of that retirement?

[Pablo Torre]

I think it happens, man. I think, like.

[Stugotz]

And he had the full circle moment where he's with the Chargers.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. It's like. It's like cars.

[Chris Cody]

Old face, old place.

[Stugotz]

That's the rare old face, old place.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. Old face, old place.

[Chris Cody]

Hawk, we want to test you. By the way, I don't know if you were listening yesterday. There's a game called New Faces or Old Faces, New Places.

[Stugotz]

We will test you.

[Chris Cody]

We'll test you.

[Pablo Torre]

All right. I'm gonna lose. When you retire, like, think of players like cars, meaning there's a certain amount of mileage that you have in your heart to play. And depending on when you start and depending on, like, your experience, your makeup, your introduction to football, your goals going into it, it's. It's hard for that car. There's a certain car, make, model that is just not going to get past 150,000 miles.

[Chris Cody]

Tires of balding.

[Pablo Torre]

Some might go to 1, 250 and die. Some cars, you know, like, yo, if I get one of these cars, they last till 275 miles, period. 275, 000 miles. They'll go that distance and some will start to break down at 120 and just be like, it just doesn't have the fight anymore. Players are very much the same way.

[Stugotz]

Maybe I'm screwing the timeline up. There was a point in Mike Williams career where he was with San Diego and then they made the move. Right? Or did he ever play in San Diego? I. I kind of forget how long the Chargers have been in LA, but either way, 30. He did the thing where he went to other places and then full circle moment gets to come back to the Chargers. That's kind of. That's kind of odd that camps are back up. This is usually when people decide, like, I'm liking my offseason too much. I haven't taken my off season super seriously.

[Pablo Torre]

You know, you. You start when I went to New England, I'm not kidding. Day, Day two, damn near. I talked to Rex Burkhead and Dion Lewis, who are my locker mates. And I played with them in other places too.

[Chris Cody]

I was Dion.

[Pablo Torre]

They were like, man, you look good, bro. I'm like, yeah, it ain't gonna matter because I ain't gonna be here.

[Stugotz]

Really?

[Pablo Torre]

I just knew, man. I'm like, I don't think it's going. I don't. I'm just not feeling it, but we'll see.

[Stugotz]

Not feeling it. You're finally catching passes from a quarterback. You had like 17 different quarterbacks in Cleveland.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Stugotz]

Tom Brady, I. There's so many people in the audience that struggle to wrap their brains around that.

[Pablo Torre]

I know.

[Stugotz]

Tom Brady throwing you passes.

[Chris Cody]

Mike's first year was when the chargers moved to LA. So 2717 is when they moved and he was drafted.

[Stugotz]

All right. So he's got the connection points to the area too.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, it was closure. That's what it is. Because I'm like, I'm losing so much in Cleveland. I'm like, maybe that's it. Maybe if I get to a place where it's winning, I'll feel differently.

[Stugotz]

You even stick around to see what that would feel like.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah. But when you get there, it's like, yeah, no, this sucks too. So maybe I'm just done. And then my knees were messed up, like in the. In the off season, my knees, like, swell up like a balloon. And I'm like, man, I don't want to go get my knee drained again and sucks. Like, it's just, I'm, I'm good. And so for Mike Williams, yeah, he's probably like, well, let me go back. Let me go back to my, my old stomping grounds. Maybe that'll be.

[Stugotz]

Which is something you wanted too, which.

[Pablo Torre]

Is something you want. And you think maybe that'll be the. It'll give me the spark back.

[Stugotz]

You wanted the full circle moment, but history remembers you mainly. I know you made the playoffs with the Bengals, but history remembers you for three as a Brown. But it's hard to like leave the Browns on via free agency and be like, hey, let's run it back. No, we actually made our decision. You're not allowed back.

[Pablo Torre]

No, we're good is what they were like.

[Stugotz]

Did you get like a one day contract from the Browns? Were you able to retire with anybody or you just went off like you just left Foxborough and you never got.

[Pablo Torre]

I think I just left off vibes, man. I was like, yo, just let the. No, I did. When I retired, I took out, I wrote an article in the Cincinnati paper and I took an ad out in Cleveland and thanking the city and the organizations for everything they did for me and all that. So it was. Yeah. Bengals fans looked at me as a hometown kid.

[Stugotz]

It was nice and long. Unlike Bradley Beal, who decided to say goodbye to don't hit me with the AO there. Did you see what I was crazy?

[Pablo Torre]

Crazy.

[Stugotz]

Damn it. I did that to myself.

[Jeremy]

You guys ever notice how there's just a fee for everything now? You buy a concert ticket, there's a fee, you rent a place for the weekend cleaning fee. Just breathing near an event. How about a processing fee? It's wild. That's why I'm glad I found Chime. You can go to chime.com dan and skip all that nonsense. Chime has got fee free banking. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, no minimum balance fees. Just clean, simple banking that actually helps you. You keep your money. And when you're trying to save or build something for yourself, fees can really set you back. Chime makes it easier to get ahead, not harder. Open your account in two [e-mail] dan that's chime.com dan Chime feels like progress.

[Mike Ryan]

Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA members FDIC Spot me Eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file. Fees apply at out of network ATMs. Bank ranking and number of ATMs according to U.S. news and World Report 2023 Chime checking account required.