Loading summary
Transcript61 lines
- [00:01]
A
This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability. Various 18 pros trust the home Depot for heavy duty storage solutions for any job site or garage Right now get up to 15% off select storage and organization, impact and water resistant totes and shelving built to hold up to £2,500. Storage systems have space for all your tools and protect them in the garage, on the job site and everywhere in between. Save time and maximize efficiency with adjustable shelving customized to your business's needs. Shop and save on pro grade storage
- [00:52]
B
at the Home Depot.
- [00:53]
A
How Pros Get More Done Final episode of Morally Abhorrent what a ride it has been. And before we look ahead to what seems like a preordained final between Spain and Argentina, between Lamin Yamal and Leo Messi, something that was handed down from heaven, a photo from 20 years ago becomes viral yet again. I want to rubberneck a little bit with our good friend Will Gavin, co host of the S Word over in Talk Sport. Will you do a lot of covering of the NFL across the pond? That was some Buffalo Bill's ass behavior from England.
- [01:37]
B
Couldn't have had me on after a win. Mike couldn't have had me on after we'd won a game. Nope. Had to wait until, as always with the mighty England. We we go out in heartbreaking fashion. That's eight times since we won the tournament. We've gone out in the quarterfinals or later losing by a single goal. And you'd argue on many of those occasions when we were the better team. Devastating stuff. Yeah, rubbernecking is definitely what you're doing. And I made the Buffalo Bills comparison on the S word earlier today.
- [02:04]
C
Just.
- [02:05]
B
Just sickening. Absolutely sickening.
- [02:07]
A
The reason why the Bills are invoked is because you guys seemingly found you you found a way to lose. You always find ways to snag defeat from the jaws of victory. And a lot of the blame is is going to Thomas Tuchel. Now Tuchel was careful. I thought he was pretty thorough in his explanation post match to why he deployed those tactics. He stopped short of throwing individual and collective players under the bus. But it was clear he thought in deploying the same kind of strategy that won him in a, won him a match in Azteca. He thought that the players individually could, could make up the difference. What was the single biggest issue that led to England blowing this match?
- [02:55]
B
How long's this episode got? Because.
- [02:56]
A
All right, give me the three biggest issues.
- [02:58]
B
I can wax lyrical about this for a while. Listen, there were plenty of issues in terms of the players on the pitch. He's not wrong in those terms. In a half an hour stretch from when England scored to when Argentina equalized, we only completed 25 successful passes. There was a 20 minute stretch or about an 18 minute stretch of that where we completed just two successful passes. And that was John Stones and Jordan Pickford passing it between each other in our own box. So the players are not, you know, not culpable for this in any way, shape or form. Of course they are not. But if you deploy tactics, where you put six defenders on the field, where you play five at the back, where you take Anthony Gordon off and replace him with Esri Konsa, where you bring Nico O'Reilly on for Declan Rice, when you send that message to your players that, that we want to get entrenched, we want to sit back, we're going to give them space and we think we're going to be able to hold them off. But this isn't Mexico crossing from deep to a 35 year old Raul Jimenez. Yes, it was the Azteca, but we were down to 10 men in that game. Like that was proper fire and brimstone. Getting through it, crawling your way to the mountaintop. This was a situation where we had the upper hand in the game. After 60 hard fought minutes, where it had been back and forth, where it had been physical, where we'd got down and dirty on their level to an extent and we had come out on top, we just then shrunk. We had that big moment and we completely disappeared inside our shell. And this is what we did with Southgate. We lost two euros finals where we had leads. We lost a semi final against Croatia where we had a lead. These are games of football that we could have gone on and won if we were bolder, if we were braver and if the manager trusted in the quality of the players on the pitch. Thomas Tuchel has paid 5 million pounds a year, 8 million with add ons apparently from this World cup to come in and not be Gareth Southgate, to come in and make the bold decisions when they need to be made. And with 30 minutes left of that game, he ran scared. Cowardly is the word that's been used across talk sport today and I find it very hard to disagree with it.
- [04:55]
A
So it's one thing to park the bus and play defensive minded to protect the lead, but I didn't understand all 11 players were behind the ball and they were deep in their box. They gave the greatest attacking player probably ever in immense space to build up ahead of steam. And also this is where I do think the individual efforts can be picked apart. Here is you're operating in a tight space. How are you leaving Enzo Fernandez that much space? I don't understand why everyone is retreating basically to the back line and lend the greatest player of all time, pick him apart with his off foot, I might add.
- [05:33]
B
I know you, you hear from Warren Barton a lot on TV out there. He's a regular feature on American coverage. But we had him on the show today and he's absolutely right when he says you could take any goal and find the individual error, find the mistake, find the reason it was scored. And in that situation, you know, two players in Jed Spence as one of them, not both making the same run, not one going to the ball and one blocking off the cross was a clear mistake. ESRI concert and John Stones not being tight to Lautara Martinez, who by the way is not a big man by any stretch of the imagination, was undoubtedly a mistake. I mean, let's be honest, I love Ellie Anderson. 116 million pounds of player should not be distracted by Messi when he's already marked by two men instead of closing Enzo Fernandez down. All of that is true and all of those players deserve a knock on them for it. But the fact is is there was just no outball. There was no outlet, there was never anything beyond just lump the ball up field and hope. There was never. Jude Bellingham was dead on his feet, Harry Kane was out on his feet, Morgan Rogers was out on his feet. And you're telling me that you couldn't bring on Bakayo Saka, you couldn't bring on Marcus Rashford, you couldn't bring on these players with real quality. Just one occasion, get the ball forward, have them pick it up, put a little bit of pressure on them. We pressed so brilliantly for 60 minutes. We were in Argentina's and then we completely dropped off entirely and it just. He came out. I don't know, I haven't heard the TV comments from him, if I'm going to be honest with you, because I was so angry last night. I just couldn't actually bring myself to go back and watch it. But I'VE heard everything he said to Talksport and he is completely unapologetic in his approach and he says, well, if I'd thrown on three strikers, then you'd have been still saying the same thing about me. We ended this game with Dan Byrne playing up front, receiving crosses from a center back in ESRI concert. This is madness. A center back at right wing crossing to a center back up front when you've got some real quality there available to you. I just think if we'd gone and we'd lost this game 3 nil, and they'd been hands down a better team than us, it would hurt, but I would feel a lot better about the approach we'd had to the game this morning. Instead, we just went out there and we gave up in that last 30 minutes and we just gave them everything. And unfortunately, because they've got a brilliant player in Leo Messi and you've got to give praise, right? Scaloni made brilliant substitutions himself. A great decision in starting Simeone, who wore that, that left hand side down for us. And then Bringing on Rodrigo DePaul, bringing on obviously the go score in Lataro Martinez, like those were great decisions. He made front foot decisions which went and won his team the game. Thomas Tuchel, whilst you could not Gareth Southgate for never making decisions, Thomas Tuchel made wrong decisions and unfortunately on this occasion that's cost him massively.
- [08:07]
A
So, dan, our host, LeBatard, he has very little time for intangible things, but I was trying to explain to him, no, England gave out because of something that was very quantifiable. They had 12% possession after Anthony Gordon scored. They were quantifiably more tired. This wasn't a thing about Will, this was England and Will, as you know, in this game, you are more prone to mistakes when you are that fatigued. I thought that the path that they had to take in Azteca, the wild variance in environment and altitudes, temperatures, the swing from Azteca to Miami Stadium, I was there in that building. I actually thought they caught a break because the sun wasn't shining, but it was swampy. And let me tell you, I am of the belief that Harry Kane is never going to be the same again. I saw a player quite literally leave it all out there and outside of one long ball, Harry Kane was pretty invisible there. I think if we can pinpoint this to one mistake, one key mistake was when you have a team that has been pressing your ass the way that Argentina was, you need to bring on a player with take on ability and to not put Saka in, to not put Rashford, who would have been my choice. I think ultimately that had a domino effect that ended up tiring out England. That led to the mistakes in marking. That led to what, what is the most egregious part about that entire match was Enzo fired off a warning shot and it did not, and it did not get addressed afterwards. Like what? Where is the panic? Where is the panic from everybody there, this cannot happen again. They wait, they, they just kept repeating the same mistakes. They were so desperate for that match to end. They were so dog tired by the end. If I could say it was one thing, it was not putting on a creative attacker that had take on ability to do something about that press. They just played right into Argentina's hand who looked composed.
- [10:08]
B
I, I would also have brought on potentially Ollie Watkins as well. And whilst replacing Harry Kane is, is always going to bring question marks, you know, in the same way that when Norway took off Erling Harland at half time of extra, I mean that's because he knew Dan Byrne was coming on. So he's running scared. Right. But yeah, other than that I can still, I can still enjoy our wins, right. Even though we lost in such horrible fashion. Just players who can get in behind. They have two fullbacks who cannot defend. They had two center halves who were both on yellow cards and then they replaced one of them with a 38 year old. You don't think that if we're running at those players. What are you doing?
- [10:41]
A
I don't understand it. All right, so this, this is where it's most frustrating because as someone that has done work in the UK and well familiar with your plight and your story, the fact that you guys are essentially the Buffalo Bills, I thought this time was going to be different. I put a lot of stock in that victory at aztec and for 60 minutes it looked like a prophecy was being fulfilled. You, you had taken all the kicks to the shins. The American referee letting you play, it became a very South American style game. You score. I thought, my God, it's actually playing out. They have been fortified by all these emotional experiences. The Dr. Congo comeback, the experience at Azteca, having to come back in a swamp one goal down against Norway. I thought all those things would lead up to finally the mental fortitude for England to get past the weight of the badge and get past the boogeyman in Argentina. And then the most English shit happened ever. So where does the, the state of the nation land right now? Everyone's pissed at Tuchel. No one Wants to see him back. Where do you go from here?
- [11:46]
B
Listen, it's very difficult for us to turn around and suddenly be, oh, now you're showing it to me. Come on, guys. This angle is so damning of both O'Reilly and Jed Spence, by the way, what a ball that is. But how on earth the smallest man on the field is getting to that ball ahead of everyone else.
- [12:01]
A
It's a shame for Spence. I thought Spence had a really great game in that first half especially. I thought he was fantastic.
- [12:08]
B
And when he won that tackle, when they counter attacked against us, we pressed them straight off the goal. We had a half opportunity when he ran back and made that tackle, I thought, that's it. That is the kick up the ass we need. That is the proverbial belt to ask that we needed to go right. Let's not forget this team are a threat. But we did do that. The way we reacted to it was to completely go into our shell and hide and was to completely just go out with a whimper going forward. Listen, there's no way the FA are going to sack Thomas Tuchel. His contract is too big. Afford it. They believe that with a home Euros in two years time he can rebuild this team and we could win it at home. And look, maybe we do, but like I said, I have. I've experienced every tournament that we've gone through from really my first one I remember is 90. I don't. I'm not. I was only two years old in 86 for the hand of God. So, you know, that's not really a memory for me. But I've seen it enough, obviously. And I just go through. I mentioned eight different World cup quarterfinals and semi finals that we've got. We've lost by a single goal. Going out of the Euros to Portugal, losing to Iceland. Like we are just a team who mentally is not there. Mentally. They do not have that winning ability. They will never be a. Yeah. A team that finds a way out of a hole in those situations for some reason. And I think we've either got to go and win a tournament comfortable to instill that winning mentality or we're going to have to find the right manager to do it. And I thought that was Thomas Tuchel. I literally. You'll see the clip from the show today. I bought earlier in the tournament a keep calm and trust Tuchel T shirt that I ripped up on the show today because I just could not believe I so invested my time in him. And when you talk about the mentality, right, I think the Americans will enjoy this. And again, I've said this on our show today, so maybe people will see it on social media. I think it's time to retire three lines. I think the rest of the world.
- [13:57]
A
You think football's coming home is a problem.
- [13:59]
B
The rest of the world don't get that it's a joke. They don't get that it's self deprecating. They don't get that we're taking the piss out of ourselves. And for us, it's. We are taking the most important, like the opportunity, the chance that every. When we are in the most key moments and we're going, yeah, we're probably going to lose this, aren't we? We're accepting that we're going to lose because we always do. If I don't hear it's coming home again until we actually finally win a tournament, which I really hope happens in my lifetime at some point. I'm starting to run out of years at this point. Then, then I would be a happy, happy man.
- [14:34]
A
So one, one last example of rubbernecking here before I let you go and bring in our good friend Tom Bogert from the athletic department.
- [14:40]
B
I just saw Tom pop up on the Zoom, by the way, and I know he's enjoying my pain right now.
- [14:44]
A
Yeah, Tom, want to drink some of these tears here? Like, I mean, there is, you know, we've been mansplaining the sport for a long time from, from you, chap. So it's, it's great to, to see.
- [14:55]
B
I actually did have, I did have a little present for you. Actually. I'm gonna have to unplug my headphones to do this. I realized I'm wearing my ears. One second. This is just a little T shirt I wore for you guys underneath my shirt. Soccer, baby. Football, not soccer.
- [15:08]
A
So sure about that anymore.
- [15:09]
B
In the old USA 94 logo.
- [15:11]
A
Hopefully I'll be able to eat. Not so sure about that. So here's, here's my last rubbernecking question for you, Will. Yeah, you're the Buffalo Bills. You have the one star. But previous disappointing runs that didn't end with a championship. They went deep. And they make movies about those teams. So there's a made for television movie with Garrett Southgate, right?
- [15:32]
B
Those teams, it was a stage play here in London. Yeah. Like, what are they doing?
- [15:36]
A
Yeah, but those teams are beloved. Right. And this was supposed to be a means to an end. It was all supposed to be parts of a story that had a happy ending. You had an iconic performance that will ring eternal once we get some of the emotion away from what we're feeling right now. That performance in Azteca will be pointed at for generations to come, I think for English fans. But we can't see that right now. All I'm seeing. All I'm seeing right now is universal disappointment and hatred. And I don't think it's a little thing that Thomas Tuchel is not an Englishman, he's a German. And people approach this with already some preconceived notions. He doesn't have what Southgate had going for him. How will this English national team be remembered in World Cup 2026 be remembered by the English?
- [16:26]
B
I think you're absolutely right in that when I look back on my footballing memories as an England fan, I think about the Spain win at Euro 96. I think about the Netherlands win in fact at Euro 96 as much as well, I do. I will look back on night at the Azteca with real genuine fondness. Like that is something. That was a great performance. The Croatia win. I know it was only the first group stage, but that was one of the best times I've actually seen England perform in that second half. Like one of our best ever performances. As I'm sure you know, USMNT will look back at that Paraguay game and that Australia game and revel in it. Despite the disappointing way that they ended up going out. There will be positivity about it. I think the legacy of it is going to be foretold in they're not going to get rid of Tuchel. I truly believe that. They just can't afford to. And he's not going to walk away from that contract. So it's all going to be about what the legacy is. In two years time and we host a home Euros for the first time, it's all over UK and Ireland Euro. So it's not just England. But the final will be at Wembley. I imagine we'll play a majority of our games there as well. That will be the legacy of this tournament because people will fondly remember Southgate's years after the years in the wilderness after the Wayne Rooney is through losing to Iceland, through the Portugal games, all of that. England fell AP over that period of time and would just. There was no unity. There was no togetherness, there was no. And Southgate brought all of that right. He just was tactically naive when he got to the big games and that's why he lost them. I really believe that's why he lost to Italy. I really believe that's why he lost to Spain. I really believe that's why he lost to Croatia. He just didn't have that extra gear to go. Thomas Tuchel was brought in to be that guy. He's messed up this time and messed up bad. A lot of people don't want him here anymore. If we get to a final of the Euros, if we win the Euros at home, I think people will look at this tournament as a stepping stone towards that. If he loses that tournament as well, this will be seen as four years wasted.
- [18:13]
A
All right, Will, thank you so much. You've done a tremendous job with our good friend Master Tesvatsian on Talk Sport, the S word. It's available everywhere. Everybody say goodbye to Will. He's go at home. He's going.
- [18:25]
C
He's going.
- [18:27]
A
Tom, my buddy, my pal. Let us turn the page. Unless you want to rubber neck some too and have any takeaways from what we saw yesterday. In fact, you cover mls. Mls. His greatest player ever had quite the moment. And Messi wasn't bad either. On the heels of that Rodrigo DePaul performance, I mean, great day for Inter Miami. I was stunned at how good Rodrigo DePaul was. So legacy wise, I think Messi has bought himself so much with this knockout round performance. I mean, yeah, he won the World cup four years ago. I. Dude, it is nuts. He's much better than he was four years ago. When it comes to the, the big time matches, the big time performances, his output in these, in these knockout stages, just treetop view on Argentina and Messi and what that match does for the narrative surrounding one of the greatest of
- [19:17]
C
all time, it's unbelievable. Truly. So I firmly believe the goat debate ended in 2022 when Lionel Messi won the World Cup. And here we are four years later, he's back into a final with the team that obviously has a number of good players, a number of high level players, but the macro view of this team, it's Lionel Messi and it's 10 absolute dogs, guys that you just don't want to go anywhere near. Guys who will literally kill anything and anybody. For Messi in particular, and in addition to just winning. But it's like winning for Messi and Argentina, it's like neck and neck for these players. It is truly astonishing to watch. It's a joy to watch. I love the fighting spirit. I know sometimes that they go a little bit overboard, they cross the line, but they're always on the line. Rodrigo DePaul lives on that line. He knows how to always either get a yellow or walk away when he should have. I was joking. In our group, I was typing out a text. When you need a goal, you sub on otamendi and Rodrigo DePaul. What's going on here? And then Dibal put in like three delicious crosses and I was like, all right, let me delete, delete, delete, delete, delete. I was wrong. So it was a truly unbelievable spectacle for Argentina in that win over England.
- [20:24]
A
It's weird because generationally speaking, not the best Argentina in terms of top end talent. They had individual players that were big deals like Di Maria was. It was a huge attacking player in the prime of his career. This Argentinian team, much like the one from four years ago, it is so built around Messi. Whereas before, not that he had to share the limelight, but there were players so capable of individual moments of brilliance that the identity wasn't. Everything runs through Messi. That's their identity here and by God, it's working. Despite not being as talented, they operate almost like a club team in terms of what their identity is. They know exactly how to play. And I think the most impressive part about Argentina is when the game gets tight and they are chasing it, they don't look like the team that is chasing it. They look composed. The other team that is on, on the, on the defense looks like they are panicking, looks like they are stressed, looks like they are burning up all the energy. What do you make of that?
- [21:25]
C
They are completely comfortable. I think that they are the mentally strongest team in the world. It's easy to say that after they win a World cup, after they have these comebacks, but that's just who they are. Like, it's not an act. It's not, you know, the, the rah rah speeches, the stuff that you say in the mirror, the Instagram captions that you'll put. But no, like, that's who they are. And they know it. For me, when we talk about this team, because, Mike, I agree with you. This team is built around Messi. And guess what? That's a pretty damn good idea. So we could talk tactics and there's jokes about scaloney where it's just like, oh, Tuchel will be talking about a false nine and then the inverted left back who, who goes into midfield in possession but drops into like that of him being like a master tactician. And then the joke is like, pass it to Messi or you're off the team. And, and for me, I don't think that's giving Sloni enough credit because the best tactical decision is knowing who you are. And Argentina, better than anybody in the world knows who they are. And I think that's one of my biggest gripes with Thomas Tuchel in England. Just overthinking things. It's almost as if he needs to prove he's smarter than you rather than, oh, this makes the most sense. This is best for our team. Like why right after the goal, it's bringing on cancer and it's keeping, keeping Dan Byrne loose in the bullpen for the fourth quarter. To come in off the bench, it's just like, what, what are we doing here? You have a team that's worth close to $2 billion and oh my God, we're going to bunker encounter like we're Cape Verde. Cape Verde put up a better fight against Argentina.
- [22:49]
A
Give them third place. Give Cape Verde third place.
- [22:52]
C
Like let. Let them, let them play in the third place game because I know England.
- [22:55]
A
England doesn't want any part of that.
- [22:57]
C
Will.
- [22:58]
A
Will's hanging around still. Will you want any part of that third place?
- [23:01]
B
Absolutely not. It's the worst game in all of football. It's an utter disgrace that it even still exists. And master has been winding me up all day about it saying, oh, he still gets place. I'm like, no, no, no, no. The nation that believes more than anywhere else that if you're a runner up, you're just first place loser should not believe in a third place playoff. That is a disgrace. The only thing I wanted to say before I do go, because I thought this about Messi earlier today and I looked up the odds. Messi was plus 5,000 to win the Ballon d' or before the World Cup. If they win on Sunday with a number of assists and goals he's had, I think an MLS player might just win the Ballon d'. Or. Pretty sensational.
- [23:38]
C
What will his leagues cup performance do to bolster that case? Because yeah, the World Cup's nice, but he has the leagues cup coming up. I hope he rests.
- [23:44]
A
Can you do it against Colorado Rapids? Leo? I have actually given that thought too, Will. It's not like his club output isn't tremendous, but that's always going to be diluted by what people think globally of mls. But an MLS player is absolutely bossing this tournament and has the highest output in the World Cup. You can maybe have a few knocks, more than a few against him because MLS isn't of quality, but it's not like he isn't absolutely dominating that league. I think he has a hell of an argument.
- [24:15]
B
It's madness. We had Julio Arca on the show earlier today and he said, what's amazing is that the Argentine public was still treating Messi the greatest of all time. This week is like, yeah, but Maradona did it against England in 86, so unless you've done it against England, we're not sure if actually you are the greatest of all time. And then he goes and gets two assists and turns the game around almost single handedly in the last half an hour. Brilliant. Thanks, guys. Show me that as well.
- [24:36]
A
That's what I really need.
- [24:39]
B
Deeper into that wound.
- [24:41]
A
We will once again formally say goodbye to Will Gavin Go of the S word and the Talk Sport and preview a final that England will not be playing in. That's right. Spain versus Argentina. Market prices suggest that Spain is the favorite to lift the Cup. Cup. I agree. And I know that we're all breathless after that. Yet another incredible Argentine clutch performance with Messi and they have the best player and everyone is just resigned now. That's amazing how the narrative has shifted everyone is resigned now to the greatest player of all time doing greatest player of all time in knockout stages when you realize for the vast majority these moments have eluded him and he's having moment after moment after moment after moment in these knockout stages. But I do think Spain presents a unique problem for Argentina. They were lucky to run into an English team that wanted nothing to do with possession, didn't put any players on that knew how to take on anybody that had anything to do with keeping possession. Dog. That's not the, the situation with Spain. They, they love to pick you apart and tire you out, and they are pretty composed. And let's not even mention how defensively stout they are. I do think that we're running into a cool narrative here where Lamina Mall, even though he hasn't had the greatest tournament by his standards, the goals aren't there just yet. Can be the Highlander that has taken out Cristiano Ronaldo and Leo Messi. What say you?
- [26:05]
C
It'd be, it'd certainly be a fun story to tell. It is a very interesting final, stylistically. I'm really excited for it because you're right, Mike, if Spain go up one nil, they're not going to seed possession and bring on seven center backs and go, whoa, whoa, whoa is me. We're a small country where, oh, this little small team with all these players from Real Madrid and Manchester City and all this like, give me a break. But with Spain, they will dominate the game with the ball. They were flawless against France, particularly Fabian Ruiz and Rodri, like, that double pivot was truly, didn't put a foot wrong. It was really, really cool to see. Argentina, though, more than any other world power, are comfortable without the ball. If it's 70% possession to 30% possession, Argentina maybe not prefer that, but they're going to be fine because these guys can suffer, these guys can run, these guys can tackle, these guys can compress space, and then that'll give Messi some space in transition. I will say England did a really good job at eliminating space for Messi for the first 60 minutes of the game. And in moments they were high, pressing and it was difficult for Argentina to play out of it. So that's going to be the playbook for Spain.
- [27:09]
A
And then Gordon, and then Gordon scored and they decided to put everybody in the box. It's crazy.
- [27:15]
C
And no matter what England did like, Spain's gonna play their game, right? But particularly so after you watch that semifinal, as if Spain had any other ideas than to just play their way, it's a pretty good idea to continue to do it. But Argentina are like that Midfield, like Predis, McAllister, Enzo Fernandez, like, they're obviously really, really technically gifted, but God, they're dogs, man. And I don't want to be so reductive and so simplistic. Just keep saying it, but, but it is what their DNA is, It is the special sauce of this team because Enzo Fernandez is one of the best midfielders in the world. But part of what makes him one of the best midfielders in the world is he's not a luxury player. He's an all action player. He's competitive, he's nuts. My father in law isn't a big soccer guy and he's been really getting to the World cup and I think it's really nice. And he'll text me and he goes, oh, these Argentines are pretty physical. Yeah, keep watching.
- [28:05]
A
And all of that is with intent. Yes, it is their identity, it's all they've known. This is a very South American style, but feeling out the bout boundaries of how the game is officiated and also writing the officials the way that they do. I do think it's telling when an English, English player goes down surrounded by maybe the captain. Harry has a couple awards with the official, whereas something happens to Messi, you get crowded by eight dudes on the pitch that, that is, they know how to work the officials. It's part of their game getting these calls that operate within very small margins and they just know exactly who they are. They Like I said, a club team with a national team brand. But I do think because of what you highlighted, the double pivot of Fabian Ruiz, who was undefeated wearing that national team shirt, and Rodri, who now finds himself in the golden ball discussion when he actually didn't look that good in the first couple of matches here and now he's back to Ballon d' Or. For him right now, that's not super sexy. Taking away passing lanes isn't super sexy to casual observers. What is it specifically that those two do in the midfield that can play out that Joe Soccer Fan can say, Tom Boger told me to look out for this.
- [29:20]
C
It's retaining possession. They don't lose the ball. And Fabian Ruiz is better and better at getting forward. But Michael, you said it. Watch what happens in transition. Because the transition moments are the most terrifying when you're going against France, Mbappe, Olise, Dembele and Spain, the rare times they turned over the ball, Fabian Ruiz and rotary would cover touchline to touchline and you won't notice it because they glide. Watch them off the ball is probably my best advice because that's when you really see them doing their magic. Because everything looks so simple if you're just watching the ball to go another 15 yard pass. Okay, oh, that was an easy interception. But you don't notice that the intelligence to get to where that space was. And they don't break a spread, don't break a sweat. Again, the old quote about Sergio Busquets, it's like if you watch busquets, if you watch watch busquets, you see the game rather than watching the ball. And that's what this team is so good at. And Rodri did not look great early in this tournament. He is back to his Ballon d' or form as he's played against France. Fabian Ruiz, I think, is constantly overlooked. Mike, like you said, it was kind of a throwaway line. But let's say it again, he's got like 50 caps for Spain. He's not lost one single time. That's unbelievable. And this is not somebody who, when we talk about the best midfielders in the world, we probably wouldn't even call him world class, let alone put him in that discussion. This guy's so very good and he's getting his flowers over the last week because that performance was awesome. When the starting lineup came out, I think there was a couple eyebrows, ways like why isn't it Pedri, why isn't it agave? But it's Fabian Ruiz and it's the same thing with PSG this year. He was injured a little bit and it's like, oh, can they go to another level because they have a more creative of more exciting attacking players. Somebody who's going to dribble and take more touches and then. No, like you just realize, this guy's awesome.
- [31:00]
B
Yeah.
- [31:01]
A
Spain's manager has also done wonderfully well the. The tactics, tactics deployed, every substitution seemingly working for them. After that Cabo Verde match, I am curious if Messi, who spent so much time on that right side against England, I'm not really sure how that came to be. It's more than I've ever really seen him operate, at least wearing a national team shirt on that right. Are we going to get situations in which Cucarea is on an island against Messi? Because I do think that while Cucarea is very good and I think is supremely underrated, I don't like Messi going at him at an, you know, increased clip. There is an opportunity here for Cucurea to make a mental mistake that leads to a big chance in Cucure's defense.
- [31:46]
C
Mike, there's not a literally a single person living on this earth that I'd be content going one on one with Messi. And it's the same thing for Lamina Mall, it's the same thing for Mbappe and. And I think that Messi is just so good at everything.
- [31:58]
B
Right.
- [31:58]
C
If he was not a great dribbler, he'd be one of the best through ball artists we've ever seen in this game. That's what we'd be talking about for him. If he couldn't score, we would talk about his dribbling. He's the very, very best at so many things. Another thing that he doesn't get enough credit for is his brain. He drifted to that side because he felt the game and he was in the middle and there wasn't space. And then as the game got compressed, instead of trying to force his way in, he's really smart about. He'll drop off, but drop off and pass and move again. These are such simple concepts, but he does it better than anybody in the world. Think of how many goals for Barcelona he scored playing the ball out to Jordi Alba. The defender watches the ball for half a second and Messi's gone. And it seems silly because it's like if there's literally anybody in the world that you won't ball watch and you'll just watch this player, it's Messi. But he knows how to blend. He knows how to. To look like he's being ordinary or look like he's taking a second off or taking a moment to think and then the second you look away, he's gone. And that's what Spain have to be so careful about. And going back to Fabian Ruiz and Rotary, that's what the world class at Fabian Ruiz in particular, like that shuttler role of going into the half spaces. When Cucarea gets forward, he can cover that end line flawlessly. That's what he did against France. I think that is what kept the control for Spain just as much as their ability to keep possession. It was when France turned the ball over, it was Fabian Ruiz cutting those lanes and making sure that Cucurea either wasn't on an island or wasn't getting played in behind. So I think that's going to be the big like again. We're going super micro into this, like inside baseball. But that is the space to watch is when Argentina win the ball back and try to transition, what will the half spaces look like where Messi is? Because Messi is smarter than anybody in the world at I'm just going to float off the ball. Sometimes I'll press, but most of the time I'm floating and you'll think I'm just taking a break. But he's constantly doing cost benefit analysis. All right, if we win the ball right now, I'm going to dart five yards that way or I'm going to walk over here. Oh, Kukure is gone. Let me just slowly go into the space that he's leaving. And it's going to be up to Fabian Ruiz more than anybody to be the double team and to be the person that's covering that space to help Kukurea.
- [34:01]
A
Tom, for every punch, there's been a counterpunch in the analysis. It's been brilliant. I can't tell who you think is going to win this match. So Tom Bogart of the Athletic, whose coverage is not behind a paywall for the remainder of this World cup tournament, go ahead and support him. He does a great job on Golazo Network as well. Who wins this World Cup.
- [34:18]
C
Mike, it sounds like you. You can't tell who I'm leaning because I don't know where I'm leaning. Like, you could tell me, make the case for Spain. And it's like, that's infallible. Of course they're going to win. And then conversely be like, give me a minute on Argentina and I'll be like, that's infallible. Of course they're going to win. We're sitting here a few days away from the game. We're still reveling in the semifinals. Those are two very good semifinals. The England Argentina one was obviously, obviously more pyrotechnic and more fun to watch. But that Spain performance was flawless. I'm leaning Argentina and Messi and we've gotten caught this way where like the Chiefs and Patrick Mahomes, like the super bowl and everything in you tells you that the Eagles are the better team. But it's like, but that team has Patrick Mahomes. We've seen it. Maybe there isn't a lot of rationality behind this. And like If Spain win 2 nil on Monday, you're going to be like, of course, like that was the better team. You know, this is a Argentina team that's scraped by every round. But for me, like, you don't go broke betting against Messi. You go broke betting against Messi. You don't go broke when you're following him. So for me, I'm not going to
- [35:17]
A
doubt the goat, but is this going to be the Kansas City Chiefs team that was widely criticized just finding a way to get past and get the results and then ended up getting blown out by the Philadelphia Eagles? I don't think it's going to be a blowout. The styles don't really lend themselves to that and you have players so capable of individual moments of brilliance. But I do think think Spain are a unique problem and I do think that that photo is going to have one of the game's all time greatest, if not the greatest, bathing the guy that came for his stuff. Tom, thank you so much, buddy. We got good follow coming up next. A big thank you to the audience of the Dan Lebatard show that has been so well receiving this morally abhorrent cycle. I've really enjoyed doing this for you. It's helped me recapture some enthusiasm that I have had for the sport. So thank you for the feedback. Thank you for supporting what we're doing. Thank you for all the comments and support. We really appreciate it. No morally abhorrence anymore. We're going to be covering the World cup final on Monday like a proper show and give it the respect that it deserves. And it's because it's a World cup, it's in our home and we've risen to the occasion. American people have been wonderful. The tournament's been great. Let's have an all time final. We'll talk to you on Monday.