Pablo Torre Has Questions For The NBA... | Hour 3

Summary

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The Dan Le Batard Show – "Pablo Torre Has Questions For The NBA... | Hour 3"

Date: June 29, 2026
Location: Live from the Elser Hotel, Downtown Miami
Podcast Theme: An irreverent look at the world of sports (primarily NBA and World Cup), league politics, scandals, and culture—with sharp insights, satire, and banter from Dan Le Batard, Pablo Torre, Dominique Foxworth, Jonathan Saslow, and others.

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Episode Overview

In this dynamic and often hilarious hour, Dan Le Batard and friends dive deep into the hottest NBA controversies, especially the Clippers’ alleged cap circumvention scandal and Kawhi Leonard’s trade saga, while also weaving in World Cup observations, fan culture, and pop culture riffs. The discussion is characterized by pointed questions, investigative insights (especially from Pulitzer-winning Pablo Torre), and constant poking at the establishment—with a signature blend of irreverence and analytical sharpness.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. World Cup Fandom, Culture & Irreverent Observations (01:14–08:22)

• Hotness of World Cup Fan Bases:

  • Pablo Torre raises the (jokingly serious) question: “How is it that every single World Cup fan base is so impossibly hot?... Is there any sport that comes close to World Cup soccer in terms of how hot they are?” (03:48, Pablo).
  • The group compares World Cup crowds to those at NBA games, golf, college football, and lands on the uniqueness of the soccer fan look and energy: “The regular degulars in the crowd are hot.” (04:21, Pablo)
  • Theorizing if FIFA strategically plants attractive fans for global broadcasts, a conspiracy that’s playfully dissected.

• Bar Tabs, Economic Impact of Traveling Fans:

  • Dan and Dominique riff on the Tartan Army from Scotland and the economic/labor impact of massive traveling fanbases—great for bar owners, tough on staff:
    • “All those bar tabs. Not a single dollar in gratuity. It’s not part of their culture.” (02:22, Dan)

• MLS, Messi’s Global Status:

  • Argentina’s Messi only “renting the most goals” before Mbappé catches him—“You’re in an Airbnb. And the owner is Mbappé.” (07:38, Dan)

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2. NBA Cap Scandal: Clippers, Kawhi Leonard, and League Politics (10:48–24:52)

• Kawhi Leonard Trade Rumors & NBA Investigation Delay:

  • Pablo explains the league’s slow-walk of the Clippers investigation (alleged cap circumvention/tampering with Kawhi):
    • “All of it seems to me like, if the NBA’s goal is to shrink the PR mess…a lot of this makes sense.” (13:05, Pablo)
  • Noting that the Raptors—victims of the initial tampering—are now rumored to be negotiating Kawhi’s return, and that their owner (Larry Tanenbaum) chairs the NBA’s Board of Governors:
    • “What this smells like is a bunch of people who know stuff and aren’t telling the public.” (15:24, Pablo)
  • Suggests that if the trade occurs before league punishment, “it is very convenient,” as penalties could seem less targeted.

• League Punishment, Stakeholder Management, and Optics:

  • Dan breaks down, with some sympathy, the league’s likely approach—focus on optics, placate the other owners, avoid radical disruption:
    • “We dock them picks, we fine them, and if we leave it there, then you’re satisfied, right? It doesn’t need to be the massive bring down the whole establishment thing.” (16:43, Dan)
  • Saslow rebuts: “This seems…headed toward a dissatisfaction with how punitive this is going to be, because of how handcuffed they are by the collective bargaining agreement.” (17:33)

• The Limits & Contradictions of NBA Punishment:

  • Pablo (backed by thorough reporting) contextualizes the Clippers’ conduct as perhaps the most “vast and absurd cap circumvention scheme…not just in NBA, but in American sports.” (18:13, Pablo)
  • Dominique and Dan revisit the biggest past penalties:
    • “Is Donald Sterling losing his team the greatest punishment there has been in basketball?” (18:25, Saslow)
    • “Minnesota and Joe Smith…five first round picks does not hold a candle to [taking] the team away.” (18:59, Dan)
  • Dan notes the economic and PR realities: “You don’t want [Ballmer] on the outside. That’s the last thing you want.” (21:01, Dan)

• Conflicted Commissioner, Adam Silver’s Position:

  • Pablo highlights Adam Silver’s shifting statements (re: knowledge of the Aspiration deal) as evidence of league discomfort:
    • “A hilarious and unsettling inconsistency…they clearly want this to go away.” (22:35, Pablo)

• Pablo’s (and Dan’s) Analogy Game:

  • Dan likens the NBA’s posture to “The Dark Knight” and the political myth-making of Harvey Dent:
    • “It’s about the optics, right? …It is better to believe that Steve Ballmer is a good and kind soul than to cast him aside and let Bane and the rest of them [take over].” (25:00, Dan)
  • Pablo presses that fans—smarter than the league assumes—do feel cheated when the rich skirt the rules:
    • “The idea is, do rules even matter anywhere?...The fans…they’re not treating us like we have any amount of intelligence.” (25:27, Pablo)

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3. Gambling & Federal Indictments: The NBA’s Integrity Crisis (33:52–36:12)

• Malik Beasley and the Expanding NBA Betting Scandal:

  • Pablo gives an update on the newly unsealed federal indictments (implicating Beasley, Ed Davis, agents, and others):
    • “The federal government…has indicted Ed Davis, a current NBA agent, a number of other people…for games in which Malik Beasley was fixing his performance via unders and oversight to make hundreds of thousands of dollars.” (35:16, Pablo)
  • Connects back to last summer’s early signals (“How was that Twitter user ahead of everybody?”), which traced back to connections with the Jontay Porter group.

• Structural Incentives & Changing Realities:

  • “It’s because the incentives of sports have now changed.” (36:02, Pablo)

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4. Rapid-Fire Pop Culture and NBA Hot Topics (38:01–41:47)

• LeBron-to-Warriors Rumors & Old Boys Talk:

  • Immediate reactions to Draymond Green’s opt-out, rumors about uniting LeBron, Curry, and Anthony Davis in Golden State:
    • Dan: “If we ever have an opportunity for these two guys [LeBron & Steph] to play…I never root for outcomes…but this one felt like we owe it to basketball.” (40:05)
  • Dominique pushes back on the nickname: “Justice League was right there for you.” (39:35, Dominique)
  • Jokes about “mobility” as a term for free-agent moves.

• Sidebar: Batman & Robin, Sidekicks as Superheroes:

  • Quick banter about whether Robin qualifies as a superhero or if his relationship with Batman was more questionable than inspiring.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• World Cup Fandom:

  • “How is it that every single World Cup fan base is so impossibly hot?” – Pablo Torre (03:48)
  • “All those bar tabs. Not a single dollar in gratuity. It’s not part of their culture.” – Dan Le Batard (02:22)

• League Scandal:

  • “It is very convenient that Kawhi Leonard, if this is true, may not be a Clipper by the time a ruling is dropped.” – Pablo Torre (16:10)
  • “We dock them picks, we fine them, and if we leave it there, then you’re satisfied, right?“ – Dan Le Batard (16:43)
  • “According to everything that I've seen, this … kind of cheating is so egregious that … it should result in one of the biggest penalties we've ever seen in sports.” – Jonathan Saslow (17:33)
  • “You don’t want [Ballmer] on the outside. That’s the last thing you want.” – Dan Le Batard (21:01)
  • “A phenomenal and hilarious and unsettling inconsistency when it comes to how the NBA itself has talked about this story.” – Pablo Torre (22:35)

• Moral/Ethical Stakes:

  • “Do rules even matter anywhere? ... The fans … they're not treating us like we have any amount of intelligence.” – Pablo Torre (25:27)

• Pop Culture & NBA:

  • “Ladies and gentlemen, we have the basketball version of the Expendables.” – Dan Le Batard (39:35)
  • “Justice League was right there for you.” – Dominique Foxworth (39:37)
  • “The nickname the Old Boys is truly terrible.” – Jonathan Saslow (41:04)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:14–08:22: World Cup observations, hotness of fan bases, sports event fan culture.
• 10:48–24:52: NBA Clippers cap-circumvention scandal; league political machinations; Adam Silver’s dilemma.
• 33:52–36:12: NBA gambling indictments (Beasley, Davis), sports gambling’s impact.
• 38:01–41:47: LeBron/Draymond/Warriors rumors and rapid-fire superhero/pop culture discussion.

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Tone & Style

• Signature Style: Irreverent, satirical, conversational, with abrupt tonal shifts between hard-hitting investigative insight and freewheeling banter.
• Speaker Chemistry: Dan often stirs up conflict and humor; Pablo delivers sharp reporting with dry wit; Dominique offers levelheaded perspective; Saslow injects both challenge and absurdity.
• Recurring Gags: Comic book analogies, pop culture sidetracks, playful mocking of each other's takes, unserious debates about sports “hotness” and team nickname quality.

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This hour offers a can’t-miss mix of big sports business revelations, culture-war hot takes, and the inimitable chaos and fun of the Dan Le Batard Show crew at their best. Anyone interested in the NBA’s present and future, the wildly shifting terrain of athlete conduct and league punishment, or just smart, funny, self-aware sports talk will find this episode packed with insight and entertainment.

Transcript

[Dan Le Batard]

Lamine Yamal steps into McDonald's, looks left, sees Pulisic, looks right, sees Jimenez, gives

[Jonathan Saslow]

a nod to Ronaldinho in the corner

[Dan Le Batard]

with a FIFA World cup meal.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Ronaldinho sees son in the booth. Son finds Beckham going for extra Big Mac sauce.

[Dan Le Batard]

He's got Davies at the table just behind him. Davies going for his collectible cup. A steal by Henry, who pulls his own collectible cup.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Collect one of nine legendary cups with

[Dan Le Batard]

a FIFA World cup meal at participating

[Jonathan Saslow]

McDonald's for a limited time while supplies last.

[Dominique Foxworth]

All rights reserved.

[Jonathan Saslow]

20:26 McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 20:26

[Pablo Torre]

this episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Setup required.

[Pablo Torre]

Compatibility and availability varies.

[Dan Le Batard]

18/.

[Pablo Torre]

This summer, serve up the Cookout classics. Oscar Meyer hot dogs and Heinz mustard. Grill up a dog, add classic yellow mustard or loaded Chicago style. We all know it's not a cookout without Oscar Mayer and Heinz.

[Dan Le Batard]

It is time for.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean.

[Jonathan Saslow]

To share his World cup game notes.

[Dan Le Batard]

No one in the media will tell you what happened better than my boy. I mean, World cup observations is brought to you by Miller Lite. Legendary moments. Start with a light. Then after 18 days and 72 matches, the wait is finally over. The Tartan Army. Get the out of here. Go back to Scotland. Holy shit.

[Jonathan Saslow]

What are you doing?

[Dan Le Batard]

Get out of here.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Welcoming the world.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, they're gone. The wait is over. We were waiting for them to go home. They're the life of the party. Yes, but everyone who's throwing a house party knows you want the life of the party to go home.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Unless they drive you thousands of dollars in revenue to your small venue, then you love them.

[Dan Le Batard]

So this is the part where I feel conflicted because can we survive the economy crash? All those bar tabs, all the trash that was picked up by. We had to have people working overtime. Thank you, Tartan Army.

[Dominique Foxworth]

I was so jealous that Boston got him for two weeks.

[Dan Le Batard]

All those bar tabs. Not a single dollar in gratuity. It's not part of their culture. The World cup finally begins, boys. Today, knockout stage. Nah, don't talk to me about yesterday. That one doesn't count.

[Jonathan Saslow]

What do you mean?

[Dan Le Batard]

Canada, South Africa. That one doesn't count.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Terrible, man.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's how they put it on its own day. Everybody else got a break. You're like, you got. Hey, you guys, you know how like halftime of an NBA game sometimes they'll have the kids from the YMCA play on the court because it's halftime. That's what that was.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah. I finally found bad pizza.

[Jonathan Saslow]

A goal in stoppage time to advance. That can't be a bad game.

[Dan Le Batard]

Nah, nah.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Did you watch? Because that one's the one.

[Dan Le Batard]

The exhilaration of match day. Exhilaration was that word. Zaz, I know you, Brazil. When I did my little rant earlier in the show, I literally sprayed spittle all over this table.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Yeah, people came out of the room complaining about that.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, it looked like a Shai Gilgis Alexander shot chart, just, oh, mid ranges and everything.

[Dominique Foxworth]

It really did.

[Dan Le Batard]

What was more heartbreaking for Iran having a goal in the 90th called off or then having to watch Austria. Algeria. Watch Algeria go up 3,2 in the 90th, only for Austria to tie it up like two minutes later in the 90th.

[Dominique Foxworth]

That was the game of the tournament so far.

[Pablo Torre]

It was.

[Dan Le Batard]

But also it's heartbreaking for Iran. Argentina do it against Cabo Verde. Cabo Verde needs to stay alive for as long as possible. Zaz, do you know what the Cabo Verde fans, they are good fans, Dan. I mean, I have this question, I asked this question in the group chat, Mike. But I'm going to extend it to the audience and to Dan and, and guys, I am a modern man. I respect and love everybody. But I have to ask this question. How is it that every single World cup fan base is so impossibly hot? And then when you look at all the sports, every sport imaginable, team sports, individual sports, is there any sport that comes close to World cup soccer fan bases in terms of how hot they are? I've been to a lot of NBA games and yeah, they're glamorous people. They're not hot like that. Not regular. The regular degulars in the crowd are hot.

[Jonathan Saslow]

I would nominate a golf outing. No way.

[Dan Le Batard]

I've been, I've been a waste, man. Open the greatest golf.

[Pablo Torre]

Not saying it's as good. Trust me, I enjoyed driving you.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Just nominated it.

[Pablo Torre]

Just looking for other good looking. You go to this sporting event, you

[Dan Le Batard]

nominate something you don't actually agree with. I'm just, I'm saying you go to

[Pablo Torre]

a golf outing and you see, you

[Jonathan Saslow]

know, it's a nice college football, great

[Dominique Foxworth]

day for sunglasses, especially now that the canes are Back.

[Dan Le Batard]

One of my favorite things of the World cup is when people call the Democratic Republic of Congo Dr. Congo. I really enjoy it. I don't know why I created a six leg parlay where a $10 bet has a payoff of $1.2 million. Yeah, I think I might have to pull the trigger on this one. Part of it is Cabo Verde beaten Argentina in 90 minutes.

[Jonathan Saslow]

So do you agree with Dominique's conspiracy theory that the World cup fans are planted strategically, that it's not just random hot people, that it's part of how the World cup sells itself?

[Dan Le Batard]

Mike, you've been there. I see Mike's real life boots on the ground video at World cup stadiums. And outside of it, flawless.

[Dominique Foxworth]

There's so much more they can show

[Dan Le Batard]

you, like what we're seeing. That's the sanitized version. That's the pg. Like, oh, this is what we can show the puritanical American audiences. Cause they could not handle. Our brains would fry if we saw how hot everyone in that stadium was. Great fans.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Welcome to Latino women, boys. I love cosplaying as a Colombian.

[Dan Le Batard]

I love cosplaying as anything Brazil. Christian Pulisic wouldn't have got nutmegged if you pronounced his name correctly. He got him so dirty, man. The funny thing was he actually tried it the play right before and he closed his legs and it went out of bounds. And so then they're doing the throw in and he did it again. And I was like, you know how little someone has to respect you to try that multiple times. It wasn't about, hey, I gotta get this ball in play so we can score. It was, I'm going to make you look like a fool. You know why? Because he says his name Pulisic, dumbass. Cristiano Ronaldo is everyone's grandpa walking in the living room during a Super bowl party, standing directly in front of the tv asking, what are y' all watching? Fuck out the way, man.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Do you guys realize he's got more minutes on the field or the pitch, as you like to call it, than any other World cup player? Than any other.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's what happens when you play 8 billion World Cups. How many goals does he have? That's a question he had.

[Jonathan Saslow]

He had a couple of two games ago, and you guys are still ripping him Uzbekistan.

[Dominique Foxworth]

He played well against Uzbekistan. Yes.

[Dan Le Batard]

No one in the world is happier than Tunisia's former head coach who was replaced by heartthrob. He's saying, not so easy, is it, pretty boy? They got wax, man. They got Wax every game. They didn't allow a goal in qualification.

[Dominique Foxworth]

And did you see that group, though?

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, my God. I can't see Dan ever being that group. Messi, don't get too comfortable with that most goal scored in World cup history thing. You're not even renting. You're in an Airbnb. And the owner is Mbappe.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Well, he looks like he's getting pretty comfortable.

[Pablo Torre]

Why does it mean. Say it like it's some bull mumbling statistic.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, most goals consecutive World cup history.

[Jonathan Saslow]

That's kind of a big thing.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Well, Mbappe is going to catch him because of his age, but man, Messi,

[Dan Le Batard]

because of his age, he's gonna do it this World Cup. This World cup, he's gonna do it, I think.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Well, Messi is presently the top goal scorer. Okay, so he's actually increased his lead.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah. Well, you know what's gonna happen? Cabo Verde gonna send him to hell. Argentina can go to hell. These are the World cup observations.

[Dominique Foxworth]

For 22 years on this show, we've debated the greatest athletes of all time. Who's the goat in football? Who's the goat in soccer? Who's the goat in hoops? One thing that we all know is Dan's the goat of finding the worst possible take. But there's another kind of MVP goat that doesn't get enough credit. The friend who knows to show up with enough Miller Lights plus X rice because they just know. The one who already has seats at the bar when you walk up. That is a Miller Time nvp. I've been on this show long enough to know that Dan is going to make everything about his feelings and Jeremy is going to push back on whatever I just said. But here's something nobody on this show will argue with. Miller Light is the summer beer. The original light beer since 1975. This summer, recognize your MVPs. We all have that one friend who makes every game better. Now it's time to give them their moment. Head over to Miller Lite's social media pages to learn more about being a Miller Time mvp. You can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller Time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

[Dan Le Batard]

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[Pablo Torre]

Are all batteries the same? That's like asking if all soccer players are the Take Messi, the most decorated player ever. Is there any other player who has achieved that? No, just him. Now take Duracell. Is there any other battery with power boost ingredients inside? No, just Duracell. Remember, goats only trust goats because they're built different and Messi only trusts Duracell. Dan Levatar Ahoy is Captain Slappy.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Jonathan Saslow is this chum bucket.

[Pablo Torre]

This is the Dan Lev.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Pablo has gotten out of the elevator that he was trapped in. He is going to walk us through this hour with more Kauai information as some more indictments have come down today. But the Messi statue in Argentina. A lot of people are pointing out that from the back the statue makes it look like the World cup trophy that a giant Messi is kneeling in front of. When you look at that from the back, it looks like Messi has a giant penis.

[Dan Le Batard]

No, that's not what it looks like. It looks like he's riding a giant penis.

[Pablo Torre]

Teach their own.

[Jonathan Saslow]

I disagree. I don't think that that looks like he is.

[Dominique Foxworth]

You don't think that looks like that?

[Dan Le Batard]

Reverse cowgirl, folks.

[Pablo Torre]

Looks like he's pooping.

[Jonathan Saslow]

It also looks like he is pooping, although I think that would be further back.

[Pablo Torre]

A cloud, guys. It can be whatever you want it to be.

[Jonathan Saslow]

No, but I don't think. I think that most people are making fun of this because it's. It doesn't look like a cloud or as pooping as much as it looks like in the front. This is unfortunate. We can agree the centered World cup makes it a World cup trophy. Makes it so that this is an unfortunate statue. That's in Argentina. We'd agree.

[Dan Le Batard]

This is stupid to me. Look at the statue from the front, the way you're supposed to view the statue. Look at it from the front. He's riding normal. It is. He's riding. That is a. And he's positioning himself right over it.

[Jonathan Saslow]

That's not. So Pablo Torre is with us now.

[Pablo Torre]

They got the. They got like the fabric sort of like so beautifully done. Like if you look at the folds in the shirt, that must have been hard to construct. And then you know what else is hard

[Dan Le Batard]

he's writing.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Can you stop that, please? Pablo, the indictments that came down today, the news that came down today, and the news that Shams is reporting that Toronto and Kawhi Leonard are involved in serious trade talks, or Toronto and the Clippers are involved in serious trade talks. What did you make of today's information?

[Pablo Torre]

There's a lot happening. There's too much happening. What order do you want to tackle this?

[Jonathan Saslow]

Let's do Kauai first.

[Pablo Torre]

Okay, so a couple of thoughts that I have around how it is that the NBA. I was talking to an NBA owner last week who was wondering, why is this taking so long? What is dragging the NBA's investigation into what feels like a very conspicuous sort of briar patch in which there is no announcement, there is no ruling. All of it, sort of, to me, as I, as I watch and I continue to report all of it, seems to me like if the NBA's goal is to shrink the footprint, the PR mess of this entire story, a lot of this makes sense. And so I'll take you back to pre All Star before we go to where we are today. So of course, we publish now 11, 11 parts, I think. I mean, is where we are in our series. That's right. And one of the first things you heard was that none of this would derail the NBA's All Star Game being held in the Intuit Dome. That was one thing. The next thing you heard was that a couple months later, wait a minute, the Los Angeles Clippers have gotten the fifth pick in this draft. Incredible. And then despite various rumor mill things spinning up pre draft, that we would get a ruling, the Clippers went and made that pick in the draft. So congratulations to the Clippers. Then the notion is, okay, well, free agencies starting July 1, certainly, given that Adam had said previously that there was going to be resolution, we got to end this sometimes. Certainly would happen before free agency. And of course, we are waiting here today. And the rumor with the Raptors is so unbelievably interesting to me for a couple of reasons. One is that the Toronto Raptors, of course, were the team that had the biggest complaint about Kawhi via tampering by the Clippers, allegedly via cap circumvention by the Clippers, allegedly because he was their guy and the Clippers took him from them after winning the title and one season. The other detail here that I think is really interesting is that the owner of the Raptors, Amin, is.

[Dan Le Batard]

Who is Roger.

[Pablo Torre]

Larry Tenenbaum.

[Dan Le Batard]

Larry Tenenbaum.

[Jonathan Saslow]

I'm glad you asked to mean that and put him in a position to win there.

[Pablo Torre]

He was thinking about the Roger Center.

[Dan Le Batard]

Roger Center.

[Dominique Foxworth]

That's what he was thinking about.

[Dan Le Batard]

Maple Leaf Sports, but not great.

[Jonathan Saslow]

When you say Roger and he says Larry, like it didn't sound like chemistry to me. Between you two.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Let them.

[Pablo Torre]

We've only. We've only done 11 episodes together. The Larry Tannenbaum detail is interesting because no one typically knows or talks about Larry Tannenbaum to the illustration that we just got on this show. Larry Tanenbau Bomb, though, has a very particular job. Currently. He is the chair of the NBA's board of governors. And so when you're thinking about what's happening backstage, who knows what and what is being negotiated? I just think it's very interesting that the Toronto Raptors are the one team that Kawhi apparently is saying he would sign a long term extension with. They would pay him the max. And the guy who is overseeing the Board of governors, which is the thing that ostensibly is in charge of all of the most important matters in the NBA, that guy happens to own the Raptors. So to me, what this smells like is a bunch of people who know stuff and they're not telling the public. What they're trying to do is get to a point in which the PR footprint has shrunk such that more podcasts can be mitigated or nullified, such that more embarrassment can be prevented. It all feels like the sort of thing the NBA, if it had its way. I'm not saying that they're doing this deliberately. I'm just saying it is very convenient that Kawhi Leonard, if this is true, may not be a Clipper by the time that a ruling is dropped. If all of this reporting is to be believed.

[Dan Le Batard]

The other part of this is if you're the NBA, you're saying to yourself, okay, who are the stakeholders in this decision? Who are the people who actually care? Who are the agreed parties? The other 29 teams, right, because the Clippers cheated and whatever fan bases care about. Well, if they can walk away and say, well, the greed parties, what do you guys want? You want the Clippers to be held accountable? Okay, we dock them picks, we find them, and if we leave it there, then you're satisfied, right? Like it doesn't need to be the massive bring down the whole establishment thing. What we're trying to do is basically by indirect means, compensate everybody for what infractions happen. They cheated, all right? Knock them their picks and now we're good.

[Jonathan Saslow]

This, though, is reported so Thoroughly and is so egregious as caught cheating. Based on all of the reporting that you guys have done that has resulted in a Pulitzer Prize, that it seems to me that we're headed toward inevitably a dissatisfaction with how punitive this is going to be because of how handcuffed they are by the collective bargaining agreement. Because to me, this is something that has been reported with such detail that it should result in one of the biggest penalties we've ever seen in sports. And it doesn't seem like that's what's going to happen.

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, the reporting suggests that this is the most vast and absurd cap circumvention scheme, not just in the NBA, but in American sports. According to everything that I've seen, this

[Jonathan Saslow]

kind of cheating is so egregious that I'm almost certain at this point, given how delayed this is and what you just mentioned about Toronto being the one that's involved with trading for him, suggested he's not gonna get into very much trouble at all. And I'm not sure how much they can penalize the Clippers, but based on your reporting, I do. What is the greatest punishment that a team has ever gotten? Is Donald Sterling losing his team the greatest punishment that there has been in basketball?

[Pablo Torre]

Minnesota and Joe Smith, they were penalized pretty heavily.

[Dan Le Batard]

Weren't five first round picks does not hold a candle till they took the team away from you.

[Dominique Foxworth]

They were also penalized the greatest penalty

[Jonathan Saslow]

for cheating that there's ever been across sports. When you guys think of a league coming down on somebody. Adam Silver made his initial reputation on being able to replace David Stern, made that reputation because of how loud he was in taking the team away from Donald Sterling. This should be something that enters that realm. Like in terms, in terms of. I mean, one of them is optics, the other one is cheating. Like what Donald Sterling did, looked bad, sounded bad, was bad, wasn't cheating. Like, was it this overt of a cheating scandal?

[Dan Le Batard]

It wasn't cheating at all. There was no material advantage that Donald Sterling got by being a racist. He was just racist and they got him out of there. But it kind of highlights what we're talking about. It's about the optics, right? It's what's the decision that we can make that makes the stakeholders, the other 29 teams and then whatever fans are actually locked in on this, which is debatable, feel satisfied. It's not about actually meting out justice. Because the reality is, if we were to treat this and go beyond Article 13, which is very specific on how you can punish people. That's why I told you guys earlier, Kwai is not gonna get suspended. They can't suspend them. It's not allowed. Right. For this infraction, the reality is this. The one thing you don't want to do is have Steve Ballmer on the outside of the NBA circle. That guy is a massive asset to the NBA, to its goals, especially at this time, now more than ever, where we got one guy who doesn't want to keep the hotel room for the team masseuse, you got another guy in New York, we won a championship. Guess what? I don't want to spend any money. Like, we are at a time where we need good pr. And Steve Ballmer, this thing aside, for the most part, is like the NBA master, this thing.

[Jonathan Saslow]

But he's good PR for the league. Not anymore, he's not.

[Dan Le Batard]

You don't want him on the outside. That's the last thing you want.

[Pablo Torre]

What the NBA definitively does not want is litigation with Steve Ballmer. You know, there are versions in which the NBA and I've fantasized about which day and how they would do it, and the NBA could do this, in which they announce a massive punishment. But the response from the Clippers is, and we are going to sue you, or and we are going to take you to arbitration, which is possible. The NBA, if you take all the optics stand as the real story here, which it is, right. What am I saying when I'm saying they got the All Star Game, they got the draft pick, they got to potentially trade Kawhi before any punishment happens. That's all in the spirit of optics. And the optics would become so much worse if it's the league versus one of their owners, let alone the owner with the most money in all of American sports. And the other thing when it comes to optics that I want to remind people of is that early in all of this, this was after the September 10th NBA owners meeting, Adam Silver said the following, and I'll just quote it here, I'd frankly never heard of the company Aspiration before. And I never heard a whiff of anything around an endorsement deal with Kawhi or anything around engagement with the Los Angeles Clippers. So it was all new to me. End quote. What happens next? We get a copy of the founding sponsorship agreement, the $300 million document that aspiration had with the Clippers, which, quote, must be submitted prior to its execution for NBA approval and shall not be effective or enforceable until it is expressly approved by the NBA. End quote. So there's a bit of a conflict there. And then what happens next? This is now mid September. Adam Silver is interviewed on stage by Front Office Sports. And what he says is actually, hold on. I have heard about aspiration before. Quote, I said I never heard of it. I meant in the context of the accusations here. I was certainly aware of the brand. End quote. There is a phenomenal and hilarious and unsettling inconsistency when it comes to how the NBA itself has talked about this story, which all indicates to me that they clearly want this to go away.

[Jonathan Saslow]

What's the point of having rules at all if a means gonna sit here and make the argument that, yes, the most egregious thing you have ever heard proven that an owner has done to get around a salary cap that is collectively bargained by players and teams alike so that no one can do this. The most egregious crime that an owner has done to flagrantly allegedly break the rules. We like having him around. It's good optics. We don't want to upset him. We don't want to go to court against a guy who has cheated. This flagrantly. This obviously, allegedly.

[Dan Le Batard]

You remember the Dark Knight trilogy? And in the second one, Harvey Dent, who is Gotham's prince of a DA and he locked up all the bad guys and all that stuff, and then he gets scarred and then he kidnaps Commissioner Gordon's son and almost kills him and all that stuff, and then he dies. And then they come back in the third one and they've created the Dent act, which is basically, Harvey was murdered by thugs and criminals, and we need to continue his legacy. And the Dent act, in and of itself in execution, is a very good thing. It's a good thing for the safety of Gotham. But it's built on a lie that Harvey Dent was a good dude when at the end, he wasn't. What Gotham needed, they needed to believe in Harvey Dent. That was more important than the truth of knowing that Harvey Dent was a guy who kidnapped a child and all that stuff. But my point is this, Dan. My point is this. I'm with you. This is egregious. I hate when people call it sloppy or not a big deal or everyone does it like, no, this was sophisticated and it was deep, and it was absolutely planned and executed in my belief.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Right.

[Dan Le Batard]

Having said that, to make an example out of Steve Ballmer by tossing him aside in a world where we have Tom Dundon and Jim Dolan and all these other guys that don't. We don't want those guys I don't think that is good for the long term vision of the league. It is better to believe that Steve Ballmer is a good and kind soul than to cast him aside and let Bane and the rest of Am I Bane?

[Dominique Foxworth]

You're Bane.

[Dan Le Batard]

You are. You're reading the letter. You're reading the letter right now.

[Pablo Torre]

Can I, can I add something, Dan? Because I think one thing that's underrated, something that I've been shocked by in the last nine, ten months of reporting this story, is that I think fans do care. I don't want to make it entirely about the pesky moralizing journalists on one side and the fans who don't care at all on on the other side. And somewhere the NBA has to figure out how do we speak out of both sides of our mouths to both groups? I think right now sports is in a place where fans are smarter than we think. They can smell when there's something happening behind the scenes that is not truthful. They can smell when very wealthy people are doing things that they don't want to disclose to the average Joe. And the idea here is not that. Man, I love the salary cap as a moral instrument. The idea is, do rules even matter anywhere? And I think we're at a moment where part of the virality and the impact of the story is because the fans, let alone the coaches and the GMs and the owners, all whom I've heard from to shocking degrees, it's the fans who are like they're taking from us. They're not treating us like we have any amount of intelligence. They treat us like we're stupid. Bonjour, compadre. It's the Priceline negotiator. How do I negotiate so many great travel deals? My greatest gadget, the Priceline app. It's got hotel deals, flight deals, rental car deals, all of those deals in a bundle deals, game day deals, concert trip deals. No one deals more deals than Priceline. Hold your horses.

[Dan Le Batard]

There's more.

[Pablo Torre]

The app lets you filter hotels by neighborhood vibes, star level, and amenities like pools and spas and beachfronts and. Wait, I'm not done. Stop cutting me up.

[Dan Le Batard]

When you finally find your thing, you want the whole world to know about that thing. So you use a thing called Canva to make it an even bigger and better thing. Whether you want to create flyers for that thing, make presentations for that thing, or design merch for that thing, you can do anything so people can see your thing, feel your thing, love your thing. The next thing you know, it's a thing Canva the thing that makes anything a thing.

[Pablo Torre]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips? That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over 19,000 local agents, they help you find the coverage that fits your needs so you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go [e-mail] like a good neighbor, State Farm is there down Levitar DJ Laz is playing Gulo in the background by Pitbull. Here's Dave Demi and he's like, hey guys, Pittsburgh, all right. Everybody's like, who the is this guy? Dave Dimacic. He goes, what TVs the Penguins game on? Who the hell is this guy?

[Jonathan Saslow]

This is the Dan Levatar Show. The salary cap is not a moral thing, but the salary cap is something that exists because San Antonio and OKC could not compete with everyone else. If Ballmer just wanted the players, Ballmer could buy his way into the game. Couldn't buy his way into the game. So he allegedly cheated in a way that's really flagrant, like offensive to anybody who cares about the rules. This is a very easy rule. This rule makes it so that the richest owner can't do this to the poorest owner. And Ballmer allegedly well, I'm not going to do it that way. I'm going to do all of this so that I don't have to do it that way. And I can't even imagine how people would be right now on this story if it wasn't Kawhi Leonard and the Clippers who didn't win anything. But it was Mahomes and the Chiefs or it was somewhere else where there's a salary cap and you're like, wait a minute, you can't do that.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, Dan, the example I gave, I think in the first episode we did Pablo, I said, if this were Jim Dolan, we'd all be jumping off the top rope with people's elbow. The league would probably be throwing alley oops to us about this. Right? But it's because part of it is because it's the Clippers, not quite the brand name, Right. But the other part of it is because Steve Ballmer is generally regarded as one of the quote, unquote, good guys. And so that's what makes this so much harder for the league to adjudicate. If it was someone who was an easy target, this was Robert Sarver, they would have buried him Underneath Bath Gate Prison.

[Dominique Foxworth]

They did. This has been an interesting segment to see play out given the Pulitzer winners here that have been the driving force behind this. It's like that scene in Jurassic Park. This is unbelievable. Brought the two archaeologists in to be on my side and the only guy that's on my side is a blood sucking lawyer. Why is Dan on an island?

[Jonathan Saslow]

The idea that you guys are making it about the criminal instead of the crime is just misguided. Like, this is not. This is not about the criminal. It's about the crime. It doesn't matter who's committing the crime. It does not. I understand that it was easy for Silver to get Donald Sterling gone because all of the other owners wanted him gone. But what are we legislating? And what's the point of a commissioner applying anything in the realm of judgment or protection of the sport if you're going to have different rules for the different criminals?

[Dan Le Batard]

But Dan, it's always been like that. It's the reason why when Draymond Green sneezes and he gets suspended, we're like, yeah, because it wasn't someone. It wasn't Steph doing it, it was you.

[Pablo Torre]

That's life though, Dan.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Like, it's about the criminal who does it.

[Pablo Torre]

There's people that vary. There's two laws of, you know, series

[Dominique Foxworth]

of justice for people that have means and people that don't.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Yeah. But in this particular case, the rule that is being fractured is the one that's meant to create equality. Like the very rule is in place so that all of these people are equal, no matter the amount of money they have. And you guys are telling me, well, one of these guys is good for the league, even though this is. Go ahead and give it to me. Go ahead and give me the other example you guys have as ironclad as this one of an owner behaving this poorly to fracture the rules. Give it to me.

[Dan Le Batard]

Glenn Taylor, Minnesota.

[Jonathan Saslow]

It's not as bad as this. It's not as bad as this because Joe Smith isn't this player. Joe Smith wasn't wanted the way this player was. And Bill Ballmer got this player by simply allegedly cheating. Our tone is so good right now.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yes.

[Jonathan Saslow]

What about the indictments, Pablo?

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, man. Okay, so, gosh, one more thing on Kawhi and then we'll get to the gambling stuff because the rabbit hole is vast on the gambling stuff. I think that when it comes down to why the rule matters, why the crime versus the criminal matters, I just think that the NBA, Adam Silver, the question I often think about is like, what would David Stern do? And I don't think David Stern would have handled it like this. Some have mused that David Stern would have assassinated me by now, which I also think is fair. He might have handled it that way 1000%. But the whole thing of Is Adam Silver beholden to the money in a way that has sacrificed everything that's made the NBA special is an active conversation that is worth having. Adam Silver has looked to money in every regard at the expense of what you could argue are the core principles of the sport. And the whole idea that you can't even punish the owner because you're afraid of him is a defiance of the entire job description of what a commissioner does. Of course, we can be cynical and say, but he has all the money. But the point is that sports is supposed to be different. If sports is going to be like the federal government, like, frankly, the United States in the era when Steve Ballmer noted good guy was running Microsoft in the largest anti competitive scandal at that point in the history of capitalism, when he was truly anti competitive there in ways that the federal government were trying to fight. If sports is just going to be that if the rules truly don't matter, then what we get is what we deserve. And maybe that makes me sound like Bain, but we will deserve everything when sports becomes worse because we can't even enforce the rules anymore.

[Dan Le Batard]

Now, Pablo, do it again. This time stand on top of a car.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Yeah, the indictment.

[Pablo Torre]

So speaking of sports becoming worse and sports needing to figure out how to police itself, look, we did In July of 2025, a whole episode that was about Malik Beasley. And what happened today is that the federal government, the Eastern District of New York, which notably the NBA, does not control. A lot of the subtext that's uniting all of these stories is that we report some stuff. We have some research and intelligence that suggests that things are of interest to the federal government. That is the case of aspiration. That is the case of the gambling scandal. The NBA is not quite in the loop on what the federal government likes to do now. And of course, the federal government today is a wacky place. So God knows that I don't know exactly what they're doing either. But what they announced today is that Malik Beasley has been charged as part of this increasingly sprawling ring that has indicted Ed Davis, the former NBA player, a Kurt NBA agent, a number of other people that are new on the record, and the notion is there are several games that the federal government has identified in which Malik Beasley was fixing his performance via unders and oversight to make hundreds of thousands of dollars. And the question we posed a year ago was, how is it that Malik Beasley is wrapped up in this? How is it that he was named before the federal government, before Sham Sharania, before espn, before anybody? How was he named on Twitter by a random user as, watch out for this guy. He's going to be wrapped up in this, too. How was that Twitter user ahead of everybody? And what we ultimately researched and reported was it might have to do with the fact that that Twitter user is connected to the John Tay Porter criminal group that has also now been charged and arrested. And is John Porter and Malik Beasley, are they connected? And what this suggests is that they very well may be. Because the depth of this problem is as vast as the incentive structure that has led NBA players who need money. Malik Beasley doing this for $2,000, allegedly, according to these text exchanges, which are crazy. It's because the incentives of sports have now changed.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Ed Davis. I was not aware that that name was involved with any of this. Can you be. Put it on the poll, please. Juju at lebatard show. Can you be a truly champion athlete if your name is Ed? Intimidating to others if your name is Ed?

[Dan Le Batard]

Ed McCaffrey.

[Pablo Torre]

Ed Belfort.

[Jonathan Saslow]

So no Perez.

[Dominique Foxworth]

You said that one already.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm talking about a different one.

[Jonathan Saslow]

So no Eduardo. He's Eduardo.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Eddie.

[Dan Le Batard]

Ed.

[Jonathan Saslow]

No, just Ed, though. Eddie. Maybe Eddie. Eddie might be intending Jones, but just Ed. If I get Ed Reed.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Came over.

[Pablo Torre]

That's it.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Came over.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Well done.

[Pablo Torre]

Good night, everyone.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Cody, a sniper from the back room. Ed Reed, excellent work by you.

[Dominique Foxworth]

The greatest. Ever do it.

[Jonathan Saslow]

You got me. You got me. Because I would not normally be intimidated by an Ed of any kind. I would indeed downgrade your athletic excellence if your name is Ed. But you've got me on Ed Reed, and I'm gonna have to put down my sword and I'm gonna be embarrassed by the putting down Ed Sheeran James, that doesn't really work. I don't think anyone calls him Ed. I don't think Edge, capital E D. Ed. No, I don't think that's something that we do just out of a curiosity here, as Draymond Green ups out of his contract and now the whispers start again on LeBron James and the warriors evidently trying to make moves. Is this rumor? Is this real? What is real as it relates to LeBron James? And what is real as it relates to Draymond Green opting out when Steve Kerr has Signed up for two more years. And it seems like Steve Kerr and Draymond Green are gonna ride out the rest of whatever this is together.

[Dan Le Batard]

Well, first of all, we got an update from Draymond Green himself saying there will be an update on the Draymond Green show. And you know what he used as a gif to kind of announce this? The bat logo in the sky. It's a very Batman Monday, folks. Lots of Batman today. Mexican Batman.

[Pablo Torre]

We got a Mexican Batman.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, do we have a.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Do we? And also, was Robin gay? Yeah, you got the Pulitzer.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Is Robin a superhero? Yes or no?

[Pablo Torre]

Ooh, Robin, Dick Grayson or Jason Todd? No, he's not a superhero. He's not Robin. Robin is not. All sidekicks are superheroes.

[Dan Le Batard]

There you go.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Is the Robin relationship one that Amin has suggested was grooming by Batman?

[Pablo Torre]

He was rescued from, like, a family of acrobats.

[Dan Le Batard]

Pablo. He was a circus freak trial that Bruce Wayne said, hey, come live in my billionaire mansion and I'll take care of you.

[Pablo Torre]

You just got to wear these tights, huh?

[Dan Le Batard]

So those pretty legs off LeBron James. So this is from Sean Charania when he reported that Draymond Green is opting out. Quote, the opt out comes days after the warriors said they expected Green to pick up his $27.7 million option. Instead, Green delivers Golden State time and space to pursue Anthony Davis and convince LeBron James to join Steph Curry Green and his old Lakers championship teammate in the bay. Ladies and gentlemen, we have the basketball version of the Expendables.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Justice League was right there for you.

[Dan Le Batard]

Oh, no, I like the Expendables better.

[Dominique Foxworth]

It's been a Batman show.

[Dan Le Batard]

That's a good point.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Zaz, do you think that LeBron James is going to be mobile?

[Dan Le Batard]

Mobile meaning. I think he's going to leave the

[Pablo Torre]

Lakers or he's going to be an athletic player. That's a fair question.

[Dominique Foxworth]

It is. I'm on your side.

[Pablo Torre]

Good point by Zaz.

[Dominique Foxworth]

Yeah, Mobile was a weird way to describe owed. Yeah.

[Jonathan Saslow]

On the move. Oh, okay.

[Dan Le Batard]

Thank you. No one's confused about that.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Got arrest.

[Pablo Torre]

It feels like it's trending toward him

[Dan Le Batard]

going to Golden State. Yes, it does. I don't think it's coming here, but it feels like it's trending toward him going to. Going to the Warriors. I said this in 2024. The most perfect basketball I've ever seen was LeBron James and Steph Curry just running circles around everyone. And I said, if we ever have an opportunity for these two guys to play, I never root for outcomes or whatever, but this one felt like we owe it to basketball. These guys need to play together. I did not ever consider that Anthony Davis would be in the equation as well. Guys, hey, young people. San Antonio, Oklahoma City. You might have to take a seat for a little bit. The Old Boys are back. When talking about if a player is

[Pablo Torre]

going to switch teams in free agency, have they ever been described as being mobile?

[Jonathan Saslow]

The nickname the Old Boys is truly terrible. The Old Boys are back. Like that's just a terrible sports nickname. I don't know what you're trying to convey there other than age. Not much mobility. You're not conveying mobility with the Old Boys as a nickname.

[Dan Le Batard]

I forgot all about Jimmy Butler, who, by the way, did you see him at the Columbia game?

[Dominique Foxworth]

I thought I could cosplay as a Colombian.

[Dan Le Batard]

Holy cow.

[Jonathan Saslow]

Jimmy Butler, too. I forgot about that. Look at that. Amin is declaring The Anthony Davis, LeBron James, Steph Curry Warriors. He's declaring them as a legitimate threat to OKC and San Antonio.

[Dan Le Batard]

The Old Boys.

[Jonathan Saslow]

The Old Boys is a terrible nickname. You can't reason with the sun. Trust us, we've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. Columbia's humble omnishade technology is engineered to protect you from the sun's harsh rays that can burn and damage your skin. The sun is relentless, but so is our gear. Level up your [e-mail] to spend more time outside and less time slathering on aloe lotion. You're welcome, Columbia. Engineered for whatever.