Pablo Torre Is At It Again | Local Hour

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dan Le Batard Show – "Pablo Torre Is At It Again | Local Hour"

Date: July 30, 2026
Live from: The Elser Hotel, Downtown Miami
Main Cast: Dan Le Batard (mostly off-mic this hour), Chris Cote, Mike Ryan, David Sampson, Pablo Torre (featured guest)

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Episode Overview

This episode of the Dan Le Batard Show's "Local Hour" revolves around the unique, dramatic, and often contentious reporting style of Pablo Torre, especially his deep-dive investigative series concerning NBA star Kawhi Leonard, secretive business dealings, and a web of questionable real estate and sports investments. The crew debates the journalistic approach, public reaction, and ethical/legal stakes of such reporting—while showcasing the show's trademark blend of irreverence, meta-commentary, and cultural references.

Pablo eventually joins the group to defend his reporting, unpack layers of the ongoing investigation, and address criticism over his use of dramatic storytelling and cliffhangers.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Pablo Torre’s Investigative Series: Reception, Drama, and Danger

• The show opens with members (Chris, Mike, David) discussing the polarizing nature of Torre’s episodic reporting style (01:44–04:44):

  • Chris: “Do you guys understand what Pablo is doing? How it's good for business and how it's dangerous for business?” (01:49)
  • Pablo’s technique is compared to storytelling “campfires,” exposing executives like Amin and David to surprising details episode by episode.
  • David Sampson highlights the fanatical attention to detail and claims, "You're really seeing the underbelly of how dirty things can be done" (03:24).

• The split audience response is noted:

  • Dedicated listeners “care deeply,” while others dislike the prolonged, incremental approach (03:24–04:09).
  • Pablo’s niche is compared to becoming “the guy you go to when you wanna find something out,” surpassing traditional news institutions (04:44).

2. Journalism vs. Mainstream Coverage

• The panel laments how poorly the mainstream covers complex NBA and business scandals, as compared to Pablo’s thoroughness (13:30–16:13):
  • Chris: "If you get it wrong with one of these giant rich people...they will throw an avalanche of attorneys at you and bury you in the mess." (15:41)
  • David Sampson: “Do you not understand how journalism works?...Do you not want the information?” (04:09)
  • The show acknowledges the legal risks and business perils Torre embraces by reporting what others won’t.

3. The Kawhi Leonard/Rhode Island Saga Explained

• At the episode’s heart: an intricate Kawhi Leonard story involving shell companies (LLCs), questionable sponsorships, public money, and possibly unseen side deals.

• Pablo Torre unpacks the details (20:38–25:37):

  • Investigative focus:
    • Creation of two LLCs by Kawhi the week before a new Clippers contract.
    • Lack of transparency or public announcement regarding investments/endorsements.
    • Interaction with the governor of Rhode Island and use of taxpayer money for a multi-purpose soccer stadium/real estate project.
    • Broader implications: alleged circumvention in both league salary cap rules and public trust (22:21–25:20).

• Pablo explains why the story matters:

  • “Why is it that none of these people can answer a straight question? …Why are none of them telling what would only resemble to a reasonable person anything approaching the truth?” (24:27)

4. Circumstantial Evidence, Legal Hurdles & NBA Power Play

• Mike Ryan and David Sampson discuss how much evidence there actually is and whether anything illegal or unethical can be proven (25:37–34:51):

  • Pablo explains the structure—this isn’t just about sports investments, but about manipulating public resources, exploiting systemic loopholes, and journalistic responsibility.

• Chris & Pablo debate the legal/structural relevance:

  • “Do you need a signed confession in order to prosecute what seems to be the largest and most flagrant cap circumvention scheme in the history of sports…?” (33:00)
  • The NBA’s reluctance to punish Steve Ballmer (Clippers owner), fearing legal entanglements with America's richest sports owner (30:47–32:45).

5. Sports, Justice Systems, and the Illusion of Rules

• The group explores the blurred lines between actual legal justice and the NBA’s “fake justice system,” run for business purposes more than truth (31:40–33:00).
• Show critiques how rules bend for the rich and powerful:
  • “Your rules aren’t real rules...Just because there’s one owner who’s even wealthier than all of the wealthy owners, he doesn’t have to agree with any rules.” (32:35–32:52)
  • “What sports rests on...is more important in sports context than it is in the political governmental context.” (32:41)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Pablo’s Style & Impact

• Chris: "Pablo's replaced entities that have Alphabet letters as their signature... You gotta go to this guy. He's got more truth than the others." (04:44)
• Mike Ryan: “It's an impressive thing when you go from noun to verb...you could Google something, right?...Pablo's kind of doing that.” (05:27)
• Pablo Torre (on criticism): "I have no idea what you said. I have nothing to do with it...The episode we did is best consumed in the way that the chefs, our entire staff...intended." (20:38)
• David Sampson: “Game of Thrones...they’ll have things that feel like an offhand reference...but in reality, there’s a massive backstory...” (08:58)

On the Investigation Itself

• Pablo Torre:
  • “Fundamentally, why is it that there is yet another deal with Kawhi Leonard in which...the whole notion...is to announce it...but you never announce the endorsement and he never does anything? Why is it that this is happening again?” (23:14)
  • “This is not a real justice system. This is a business hiring a law firm to try and control a problem...” (31:41)
  • “Cap circumvention...is not my life’s mission. I wonder about what is the story here and why is it important?” (39:09)

On the Systemic Cynicism

• Chris: "At the center of this, you have it being covered so poorly everywhere else because it's complicated, and it is hard to have lawyers vetting stuff because you don't want to make any of these rich people take you to court when they have more money than you." (15:41)
• Pablo Torre: "I'm merely saying that we live at a time in which the people in power have a greater ability than ever before to not tell you what's going on. The public interest has never meant less." (39:09)

Comic Relief & Show Self-Awareness

• Chris: "You're realizing, I mean, that some of the people in leadership, in the sport you love the most, they're in a bit of a clown car here following his investigation." (37:38)
• Pablo Torre (on past embarrassments): "I was lured into judging a bikini contest with Dan and Poppy and got the scoring system wrong at the Clevelander Hotel. That was a problem for me." (43:12)
• Vienna Sausage Detour:
  • “I love a wet sausage.” (41:00, 44:04)
  • “Vienna sausage, white rice, a little mustard on the side.” (44:15)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:44 – Discussion of Pablo’s impact/storytelling and business stakes
• 04:44 – Pablo's new status as a credible alternative to mainstream news
• 08:58 – “Game of Thrones” analogy for narrative sprawl & depth of investigation
• 13:30 – Journalism, legal dangers, and mainstream media coverage
• 20:38 – Pablo joins the show, addresses critics, breaks down the investigation
• 22:21 – Details on housing promises in Rhode Island, stadium deals, the LLCs
• 25:37 – Economics of lower-tier soccer, stadium “land deal” angle
• 27:50 – The NBA’s investigation timeline, league office's fear of Ballmer
• 31:40 – “Fake justice system” and why settlements with Ballmer matter
• 32:35 – “Your rules aren’t real rules” – the heart of the NBA vs. Ballmer power struggle
• 39:09 – Public interest, power, and the stakes in telling the story
• 41:00 – Wet Sausage comic detour & Vienna sausage story
• 43:12 – Pablo’s top five “shames” and show history

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Tone and Language

• Dynamic, irreverent, and self-referential, packed with inside jokes, newsroom cynicism, and a palpable tension between detailed journalism and mass entertainment.
• Combines serious investigative commentary with absurd asides (like sausage debates and mock worry about Pulitzers and RICO charges).
• Pablo often adopts the persona of an earnest, occasionally exasperated journalist, holding the line as the rest of the crew drifts into comic impatience or disinterest.

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Conclusion

This "Local Hour" is both a meta-debate on the value and risk of deep investigative journalism in sports, and a real-time look at how such reporting ruffles feathers, challenges institutions, and sometimes alienates even one's colleagues. Pablo Torre's latest Kawhi Leonard investigation serves as the flashpoint: a layered story blending sports, public money, and alleged strategic secrecy, told in a way that is both frustrating and exhilarating—depending on your appetite for the weeds. The segment demonstrates how storytelling, audience expectations, and media business pressures are interwoven in contemporary sports journalism.

Transcript

[Mike Ryan]

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[Pablo Torre]

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[Chris]

Does this one deserve that? I'm not sure if this one deserves.

[Mike Ryan]

We got another one.

[Chris]

The yeah, we got another one last night.

[David Sampson]

Another one.

[Mike Ryan]

Get with the program.

[Chris]

I want to. You guys are all equity stakeholders in Meadowlark Media, correct? Everyone here has equity stake in Metal Arc Media. So you know the business that we're in. Like, do you understand what Pablo is doing? How it's good for business and how it's dangerous for business. Do you guys understand the dangerous for business part?

[Pablo Torre]

No. No, I only get the good part. The dangerous part does not follow me.

[Chris]

So Pablo released another episode yesterday. And I will say that Amin has had very few days professionally as good as the one he did yester because of course he was extraordinary here. But then he was on with Pablo at night and was better. What those guys are doing is drawing a crowd because they're the only ones that have some information. They're telling stories that are interesting, dramatic, making some of their watchers, their viewers mad because at the end of the episode, they're teasing stuff. Pablo is teasing this story episode to episode. And a lot of people are complaining, this is too much. But at the end, hey, surprise, spoiler alert. And there are no, you know, great things being done for people who were promised great things because we've got some sort of alleged side deal.

[David Sampson]

It was a very Game of Thrones esque thing because this whole episode started from an Easter egg that came in the very first episode of this Kwai aspiration thing, which is the LLC KL2 Aspire RIFC. And at the time we mentioned it on that episode, but we never kind of further discussed it. We were.

[Chris]

But here's the thing, Amin, about what you, Sampson and Pablo are doing. You guys are so in the weeds on how it is. You've won this Pulitzer because you care about all of the smallest of little dramatic details. Cuz you're really seeing the underbelly of how dirty things can be done. And they're fascinated by it. Pablo is basically around a campfire surprising Amin and David with stories. And they're hard to surprise. They're executives, they're cynical. Like they are not naive human beings. And Pablo is placing journalistic fact after journalistic fact in front of them in a way that has them along for the ride too. But you're too deep in the weeds. I mean, I think a lot of people are listening to this and they're like another episode. The people who care care deeply, but the people who don't also dislike it deeply.

[David Sampson]

Which is weird to me. You could do an episode on cricket and I probably wouldn't care. You know how I know I wouldn't care? I just wouldn't respond to it. But this thing, to me, it's not even the people who don't care, it's the people who are upset. Like, why is Pablo in everybody's business? I'm like, do you not understand how journalism works? Do you not wanna know the truth of what rich people are doing behind our backs? Do you not want the information? Or do you want the information filtered and delivered to you through a mainstream lens that is very careful, protective of different stakeholders? In the way that we were talking about the other day with the NFL,

[Chris]

you answered your own question when you said, do you not understand how journalism works? The answer to that is no, we don't understand. And also very often, and I don't care and I don't like it, but the crowds that gather around Pablo, that's an entirely different audience that's saying, no, I crave more of this. This sounds more like the truth than anything. I'm getting in the mainstream. And Pablo's replaced entities that have Alphabet letters as their signature. In terms of mainstream. This is the guy you go to when you wanna find something out. That's crazy that he's done that in two years. You know how hard credibility is to come by and he's passed other people on. No, when you wanna know something, you gotta go to this guy. He's got more truth than the others. That's nuts to be winning at that trough.

[Mike Ryan]

It's an impressive thing when you go from noun to verb, when you become a standard thing. And I know that this is. We're metal arc media and this is, you know, really blowing smoke up our own asses here, but you know how, like, you could Google something, right? That's actually at the tail end of Pablo. When we say Pablo, that can't smell

[Chris]

good from a meat.

[Mike Ryan]

That trail, smoke. That trail in the Pablo Sounder is just us blowing smoke up our own asses. But you know how, like, zoom became a verb and Google became a verb. Hey, Pablo's kind of doing that.

[Pablo Torre]

How about TiVo?

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, hey, let me. Let me TiVo that, you, Boomerass. You are listening to the Dan Levatar

[Pablo Torre]

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[Chris]

Pablo Torre is at it again, and his Pulitzer Prize winning teammates, Amin Alhassan and David Sampson are riding next to him in the chariot on a story they are way out in front of. Pablo will join us in 10 minutes. It would appear the appearances are dramatic or otherwise, that there is another Kauai side deal that runs through Rhode Island, Rwanda, housing developments that aren't being built for the under pressure, and an assortment of other things that will outrage people when they get the details. And it seems like this is just one of many upcoming installments.

[Mike Ryan]

Okay, so that part, because I am not outraged. This just seems on the surface in this one episode, and I don't want to kind of fall for it, and I don't want to put myself out there, but in the things that I've seen, to me, on the surface, and it wasn't resolved in this episode, that this just seems like a normal side investment from a dude with a lot of disposable income. I don't know the tie to this

[Chris]

entire governor of it ties local news and the governor of Rhode Island.

[Mike Ryan]

I saw that. I saw the local news thing with the governor of Rhode island, and I was like, okay, but I'm lost on this.

[Chris]

Let me set it up for the audience so it can be less lost on what the details here are on something they may not have viewed last night, because he did this last night with Amin and David Sampson. And what was interesting to me, me as someone who's running a business with you guys, and you guys have equity in what our business is, I'm watching the crowds go gather because they want this information from a source that they know is going to be doing it credibly as a journalist. And I'm watching people gather, being like, holy, this is thorough. And what's happening with this story as it grows over time, because Pablo is now in the business of modernizing the old newsroom. He's telling this story because he's got it. He's got this story, and now he can tell it over an assortment of different episodes, dramatically, so that he's leaving you with a cliffhanger at the end of this one in a way that's making the viewers mad and is bringing even Amin and Samson, savvy business people along for the ride when they're like, wait, this is outlandish. So, Amin, just get people caught up. For those who are saying, this isn't enough, Pablo, this isn't enough of a gotcha. I want more here. Get people caught up on why. I think that yesterday you had one of your best days. Not because of what you did here. It was great. But on this show, you were great because you're advancing how this story's being told.

[David Sampson]

Yeah, I mean, I think the thing with this Kawhi Leonard story is it's very layered and there's a lot of stuff going on. And in any given episode, we're going through so many documents and mentioning so many things that it's easy to move on and move on with what appears to be, quote, unquote, the main thing and not really give any two thoughts about these other little things. I love Game of Thrones. I love Star Wars. What I love about both of those shows or those. Those vehicles is that they'll have things that are. That feel like an offhanded reference. Like, someone walks by, there goes old Zaz, and that's it. Like, oh, it's just some. Some side character. But in reality, there's a massive backstory. To that person. And one way or another, we will dig deep and find out. A great example of this is Night of the Seven Kingdoms is about this guy named Sir Duncan. Right? But in Game of Thrones season one, they mention him. Like Joffrey's looking through a book. Like two whole pages on Sir Duncan.

[Chris]

That's all Ophi, amateur knight.

[David Sampson]

Right. So. So this idea that like what felt like a throwaway line, just like him musing at something written in a book, there's actually a whole backstory about this dude. So in the same way we're doing the story about Kwai and Aspiration and the Clippers.

[Mike Ryan]

Like the Odyssey.

[David Sampson]

Sure. Like the Odyssey, the ultimate spinoff, right?

[Mike Ryan]

That's correct. Was it the first Iliad, then the Odyssey? And there's a bunch of spin offs like you watch Troy and you're like, hey, that's Odysseus.

[David Sampson]

Yeah.

[Chris]

What Amin is saying, as someone who comes from basketball Illuminati and always telling you to keep your third eye open, is they'll give you an Easter egg in the 12th episode. That answers a question you have from the first. Because he's got the ribbons on this story and it's a really interesting story that he's going to keep telling. He's going to be on with us here in five minutes. But what you guys did last night, specifically, I mean, where's the gotcha? Because we don't have time for all the storytelling, we don't have time for all the true crime podcast, you know, put a flourish on it. Where's the gotcha?

[David Sampson]

So Pablo is going to be on in a few minutes with us and I would love for you guys to ask him that question. For me, my feeling. And again, I know less than Pablo, obviously, cuz he's the ringmaster, he's got all the information. We also had a bunch of stuff that didn't make the final episode. And I never know, is this because time constraints or is this because, you know, we have lawyers in the room telling us, hey, journalistically, you can't say this because that leaves us liable. So I can't answer that question fully because I don't know what I'm allowed to and not allowed to say, but I know Pablo is the thing that

[Chris]

I wanted to ask you guys. And I don't know if the audience is interested in this. You guys don't seem to be terribly interested in this.

[Mike Ryan]

The gambits are usually a little bit more compelling. And I like, I'm not going to put myself out there and Say this is a nothing burger. This one's kind of lame because I'm familiar with how Pablo is operated, but usually the, the. The gambit is more compelling and more of there could be something here. So far, I don't really see where the there is there.

[David Sampson]

The suspicion is in, hey, this guy created this LLC around the same time where all the aspiration thing had fallen apart. And an LLC which was, I guess, a vehicle for investment in this random team on the other side of the country, but they didn't say anything about it. Again, there's all this shroud of secrecy around Kwai's involvement. And by the way, the weirdest connection ever. His own teammate, who is only his teammate for that particular season, was also involved in it. And he got like the big hoopla.

[Chris]

Hold on a second, though. I mean, you're getting so deep into the weeds on some of this stuff and going full NBA nerd on caring who the players.

[Mike Ryan]

But I think that speaks to my. My issue. Like you have to go deep in the weeds because on the surface level, there, there isn't something here. Maybe I know too much about soccer, but if you're looking to make money with Rhode island fc, get out the point.

[David Sampson]

And the other the part. And I didn't say the player's name, by the way, Dan, you say, oh, you got too deep. I'm like, no, I'm not. Because I didn't. It doesn't matter what the player's name is. It's not a secret. It's Daniel Tice. But the idea is that this guy, who is a journeyman who played one season with Kawhi Leonard, his entire career, happened to be an investor in the same team at the same time in the one season that they played together. And they announced it, but they didn't announce Kawhi.

[Chris]

Circumstantial evidence is not evidence. And you guys being fascinated by the dramatics in that is less interesting than. And I'm going to put this in plain terms before he comes on, because I believe the mainstream media is covering this very poorly, at least in part because it has so many layers that it can only be covered well if you are so thorough that you seem to have more information than the law firm that's investigating this, not independently, as the NBA keeps saying, it is independent. Okay, the thing that, that Pablo's building the bridge to here and it can still be alleged and it is not proof. Proof proven in a court of law.

[Mike Ryan]

Proo.

[Chris]

But he's got a lot of things around here that Feel like smoke and evidence that if you're predisposed to believe that Pablo is ethical and credible, he seems to have some angles to some things here that make it seem like the way you go when aspiration money disappears is. Where can we find a place to put it? Is Rhode Island a place that we can give Kawhi a side deal where he can get some money? That's not been proven, but there's just a trail there.

[Mike Ryan]

Look, Pablo's going to join us and make me feel plenty stupid. I don't need it from you, too. And also, it's circumstantial. Daniel Tice played professional basketball in the New England area, and he's European. If anybody's got to invest in soccer, it's that idiot.

[Chris]

Chris, what were your thoughts?

[Pablo Torre]

I didn't watch it yet. Bowling night.

[David Sampson]

Circumstantial evidence. You guys say that like it's a negative thing. And if this were a criminal court, yes. Circumstantial evidence is not evidence. However, this isn't criminal court. Right. If it was civil court, circumcised evidence.

[Pablo Torre]

Is it?

[Mike Ryan]

All I'm saying, it's like 100 times more likely that Daniel Tice would invest in a New England area soccer team than Kawhi Leonard.

[Chris]

But the problem with what I think Amin is doing okay, and maybe it's not a problem. The NBA dorks are dorking out on this, and the mystery dorks are dorking out on this because they've got this playground where only they've got the information that isn't being disseminated anywhere else. In fact, the media is covering it so poorly. And I want to ask this of Pablo, too. I'm reading a story with sources yesterday from ESPN.com that says, hey, Kawhi investigation might not be over till 2027. I'm like, these people are not actually really reporting on any of this.

[Mike Ryan]

So is he going to be a raptor or not?

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah.

[Chris]

Who does Brandon Ingram play for like this? At the center of this, you have it being covered so poorly everywhere else because it's complicated, and it is hard to have lawyers vetting stuff because you don't want to make any of these rich people take you to court when they have more money than you. That's the business we're in. It's the danger of doing what Pablo is doing. I don't think you guys are aware of it. Like, I don't feel like you guys understand the danger of what Pablo's doing. If you get it wrong with One of these giant rich people. They will throw an avalanche of attorneys at you and bury you in the mess.

[Mike Ryan]

Familiar? You explain it to me damn near every day.

[David Sampson]

Also, Pablo's the one in D. I'm not. I'm fine.

[Chris]

Right?

[Mike Ryan]

No, no, no, no, no. It's a RICO thing.

[Chris]

It's a rico. All of us. Tony, you're in on this?

[Mike Ryan]

I haven't said a damn thing.

[Chris]

We're all pulling.

[Pablo Torre]

I support Kawhi.

[Mike Ryan]

That's how Dan sweetened the pot. He's like, hey, you want to pull it, sir?

[Chris]

Tony, we all did. Journalistic crime.

[Mike Ryan]

Welcome to.

[David Sampson]

That's why.

[Chris]

Hold on.

[David Sampson]

That's why he was handing it out to everybody. Chris, you're a Pulitzer winner.

[Chris]

That's right. We're all in the. Look, it's all.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm not here to be deposed.

[Chris]

It is. You guys got an equity stake? What do you think it means?

[Pablo Torre]

I could stuff. Not the bad stuff.

[Mike Ryan]

In fact, I don't. Yeah, it's a nothing burger.

[Pablo Torre]

I don't think Pablo thinks that I'm a Pulitzer Prize winner.

[Mike Ryan]

Tony, you know that moment at a party or at a tailgate where everything just sort of clicks?

[Pablo Torre]

I know it. Well, it's usually when I show up, everybody goes crazy.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, you usually take all the. But it's because Tony usually walks in with Cuervo.

[Pablo Torre]

Walking like this.

[Mike Ryan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cuervo is a thing that turns hanging out into this is the night. It has that effect on people. It does. You usually take the credit for it, but again, it's the Cuervo effect. It's like that moment in a big game where everyone in the crowd just starts standing up, hooting and hollering, keep it Cuervo.

[Pablo Torre]

Keep it Cuervo, baby.

[Mike Ryan]

Howdy, folks. It's Mike Ryan. You know, the Levitard show and Miller Lite go way back. Pretty much. I want to say, like, 95% of our existence, we've been partnered with Miller Lite. And we believe in Miller Lite. They believe in us. It's great to have a partner with a product you truly love. That's me with Miller Lite. I love Miller Lite, always have. In fact, I consider myself a bit of a Miller Time mvp. The friend who says, they've got it. I'll pick the spot. I'll throw the cooler in the trunk, bring some Miller Lite. And suddenly what was supposed to be a couple of hours turns into a whole afternoon. That's me, the Miller Time mvp. And it's great for summer. Hangs cools the body down that beautiful white can not much better than an ice cold Miller Light because it's brewed for taste with simple ingredients. Clean, refreshing and easy to drink in the Miami heat. In All American Summer starts with an all American beer Miller lite. Go to millerlight.com dan to find delivery options near you or you can pick up some Miller Lite pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Co. Milwaukee, Wisconsin 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces this summer. Whatever you're watching baseball, golf, soccer, racing, DraftKingsports has you covered. The Draft King Sports app is now available in all 50 states, bringing the action straight to your fingertips wherever you are. One app every market so you're always in on the excitement at the speed of Sports. New DraftKings customers sign up with code DAN, spend 5 bucks and get $150 in rewards within 14 days as code Dan includes all markets in partnership with DraftKings. The crown is yours.

[Pablo Torre]

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[Pablo Torre]

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[Chris]

This is the Dan Levatar Show. Okay, Pablo's on with us now. We've got a lot to cover here with him and he is milking the story. So people are mad at you, Pablo, for the way you ended the episode. Like maximum drama. But also like, give me the journalism, journalism boy. Give me all the journalism, not just some of it now and some of it later. You're pulling dramatic flair out of this story and I want to go over the particulars with you, but I don't want to lose my audience either because already we've talked about this enough and once we get into the details of this, the way that you and Amin care About this is so deep and it's feeding an audience that is very hungry for it. But it doesn't seem to be our crew here. They're tired of episodes.

[Pablo Torre]

Hi, good morning. I'd like to formally begin by disavowing whatever it is you guys have discussed already today. I have no idea what you said. I have nothing to do with it. I'd also like to detach from whatever the discourse has been. The episode we did though is best consumed in the way that the chefs, our entire staff, we worked so long on this intended. So I don't want to just rehash the whole episode. I think you really need to watch it. Not just because I need to send my daughter to first grade next year, but also because I think that's the best way to actually get why we're telling the story. It is funny though, big picture Dan, to be simultaneously the guy who is throwing anything at the wall, allegedly, but also being way too restrained here. Like accuse them of cap circumvention. And I'm like, no, we're telling you the story that we can responsibly and journalistically present to the public the story fundamentally of the public interest. We partner with a local news organization in spoiler alert, the state of Rhode island investigating the sitting governor of a US State. That happens in the story. We talk about the housing crisis. We talk about promises of affordable housing using public money that have not spoiler alert, come to any sort of completion. And also the way that this is all told along the spine of why in the hell does Kawhi Leonard, whenever you investigate his business dealings along the timeline of his extensions with the clippers? Why the hell do you wind up always seemingly finding yourself talking about these alleged self presenting good guys like aspiration, like fortuitous partners that promise we're gonna save the world and then deliverance, benevolence,

[Chris]

they're choosing the words. Let's examine some of this, okay? Because it is a work of art. It's a Pulitzer Prize winning work of art. And it is a story for today where sports becomes America's story. And you guys are telling me that this guy as a journalist isn't going gotcha enough when latest episode has at the end. What do you mean they didn't build any houses for the impoverished and we're just so numb to shame at this point that that's not got you enough on. What do you mean they didn't build any houses? Now that's the way people do business around the salary cap, around Kauhi Leonard. So, Pablo, what are the most incriminating details here? Because you do make not a lot of leaps, but there are links there that aren't quite provable. And so there are more questions that people have based on what you're led to infer by the reporting.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, I mean, fundamentally, why is it that there is yet another deal with Kawhi Leonard in which the whole notion of why you're in business with a superstar athlete is to announce it is to market it is to have him say, I'm a part of this ownership group, a second tier soccer team in the state of Rhode island, much like in parallel to aspiration, why would you sign a guy to a $28 million contract to be an endorser of a company, but you never announce the endorsement and he never does anything? Why is it that this is happening again? Literally, the LLC is. Kawhi started KL2RIFC LLC and KR, excuse me, KL2RIFC Real Estate LLC. Two LLCs formed the week before he signs a submax extension with the Clippers, when he is, and this is important, still owed millions of dollars that have never come his way that he was contractually obligated from the aspiration deal. Why is it, why is it that this is also another secret arrangement? And why, when you ask everybody involved, the team, Kawhi, Kawhi's representatives, the governor of Rhode island who greenlit the stadium deal for the team, the owner of the team, the Clippers, the marketing agency that brought apparently the governor of Rhode island into the Intuit Dome for the home season opener, sitting next to the owner of the soccer team, this marketing agency, which is the marketing agency that is running the partnership between the Clippers and the Jersey Patch sponsor, Visit Rwanda, that replaced aspiration, exasperation, of course, collapses in a heap of fraudulence and bankruptcy. Why is it that none of these people can answer a straight question? Why are none of them telling what would only resemble to a reasonable person anything approaching the truth? That's what we're asking. Why is it so hard to explain any of this?

[Mike Ryan]

All right, so like all investments, you make an investment to make money. But I don't know how much you know about lower tier professional soccer in the United States of America. There's not a lot of money to be made. Does Kawhi and company allegedly make money from this deal?

[Pablo Torre]

It's a great question and it has to do with the stadium deal. So when Brett Johnson, the head of Fortuitous Partners, and you know, again, there's a whole bunch of good guy sounding names. Benevolent, fortuitous. Those are his two entities. But Fortuitous Partners is running the build of a new stadium in the state of Rhode Island. And this is a multi. I mean, this is a nine figure operation, right? To build a stadium. And at first he promises only private money. Then he pivots to actually, we need your private money, we need your public money. We need taxpayers to help fund it. And the thesis of it, Mike, because it's a very good question, is we're not just going to build this stadium for an obscure soccer team. We're going to build housing. We're going to build an entertainment complex. This is a real estate deal. This is not merely equity in a soccer team. Brett Johnson, the owner of rifc, is talking on tape that we play in the episode about $1 billion of investment flowing into the state of Rhode Island. Now, whether he will ever deliver on that is a very good question which we did so many public records requests over the last 10 months to help try and triangulate. But what I can tell you is that the promises and the pledge and the market and around. Why do you need taxpayer money to build a stadium? Answers the question that Mike is asking. It's because this is not merely a soccer team. This is about revitalizing an entire American city that is also suffering from, according to local reporting, our partners at wpri, according to them, this is a housing crisis that is unparalleled in the United States. And so it's all of that money that you then access. It's not merely I'm a part owner in a random soccer team, it's this is a land deal. And that's why this is so interesting to me.

[Chris]

Okay? It's one of the reasons it's interesting. I don't know how much more is there over subsequent episodes, but I have a lot of questions for you, Pablo. One of them, the report yesterday that led from sources that this Kauai investigation might take the NBA now until 2027. What's that story?

[Pablo Torre]

I mean, it's funny that ESPN drops that story hours after we publish our first, like, hey, we're doing a new Kawhi episode tonight. You might want to tune in. And truly, the day after, we make requests to all of the people that I mentioned in that laundry list of individuals. Everybody knew that that episode we published last night was coming because we asked for comment from everybody. And so what does ESPN publish? They publish a. This may take a while, guys. That till 2027. Story hours before they, I suppose the whole audience that might be listening to me before they get to know what's actually happening. And so I am not going to get into the minds of ESPN and the NBA in this regard. I just know that, that they fear at the league office, which is talking to Wachtel every single day about what the findings are. League office at the NBA and Wachtel, their quote, unquote, independent investigators, talk every day about the findings. And so I just know they're worried about what else is out there that they don't know. And frankly, I think one big precedent for their worry is what happened in Miami with the Terry Rozier deal in which they say, hey, go and trade for Terry Rozier, Miami Heat, go for it. And what happens is surprise, there's a federal investigation and surprise, the Miami Heat are seeking recourse because they were not informed of the fact that there was this possibility. And so there is some kind of a settlement involving a second round pick. Mickey Harrison, the owner of the Heat, decides not to fight the league. And I think you contrast that with what the league is fearing with this story in which there's a lot more here than people, I think, who are just listening even to my podcast are aware of in terms of what possibly is lingering. The Athletic had recently reported, by the way, that there is a second sponsorship deal that the NBA probe has now been examining. We don't know what that is, but what I'm telling you is what the league is worried about is Steve Ballmer, the richest owner in American sports, fighting in a way that other owners would not have the resources or the inclination to fight. And that is what is.

[Chris]

That's crazy to me. That's crazy to me. That's crazy to me. Zaz.

[Pablo Torre]

So he could just do whatever he

[Chris]

wants, whenever he wants. When I'm reading Zas, when I'm reading this story, am I reading something wrong? When it is said in the story that one of the problems with punishments on the Clippers is that Ballmer has to agree to the punishment that, that Ballmer has to be sort of. If he doesn't agree, what's going to happen after that is Ballmer's going to be fighting your league. And do you want that? And they clearly don't want that. Am I making jumps there that are unreasonable?

[Pablo Torre]

Pablo everybody. And I am here to say that, like what the NBA wants, because what they want is for the story to go away and to shrink because it's been very embarrassing for lots of different reasons beyond me Even they want this story to shrink and go away. And the only way to really do that is to get the Clippers to stop making this messier, to stop fighting it. And so a settlement is what the league absolutely would prefer when it comes to. How can this speed up and get out of the.

[Chris]

Think about that for a second. Hey, Ballmer, can we get to a settlement? Like, so. Since when does punishment work that way?

[Mike Ryan]

Like, what is that all the time?

[Pablo Torre]

Well, this is.

[Chris]

No, but when you're punishing athletes and they have to appeal stuff and then lose the appeal because the appeals to Goodell.

[Mike Ryan]

No, not. Not so much in sports, but in life, all the time.

[Chris]

Yeah, in life, yes.

[Pablo Torre]

Not so much in sports, but this is. But this is, I think where it's interesting is that. That sports, the cba, this investigation, Adam Silver as the Supreme Court justice. This is not a real justice system. This is a business hiring a law firm to try and control a problem in which the public may never know the depths of whatever they discovered. Because, of course, it's bad for business if this thing keeps on expanding. And so if you see it through the lens of this is not justice, as much as we like to dress it up as independent investigation and this whole, like, constitution, 500 pages of CBA rules and fairness. Right. Which is what sports rests on. Sports rests on a principle that is more important to sports fans in the sports context than it is in the political governmental context.

[Chris]

Do you understand that what Pablo is saying to you is at the crux of what this fight would become between Ballmer and the NBA is your rules aren't real rules.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes. Your rules, like, your rules are rules.

[Chris]

I don't have to live by your rules. Yeah. Just because there's one owner who's even

[Pablo Torre]

wealthier than all of the wealthy owners, he doesn't have to agree with any rules because he'll go to court and

[Chris]

you may be exposed.

[Pablo Torre]

It's so stupid. Well, I also want to say this, right? So anybody who's a. Who's being investigated, who's a defendant, so to speak, they deserve. In a real justice system, they deserve due process. They deserve to have their case be heard. They deserve all of that. Right. What I'm merely saying is that it has been now almost a year. It's been 11 months since Wachtel, the law firm hired by the NBA, started following up on what I reported in September and this entire time, typically, what you would imagine, because I know that reporters who are also curious about this have been asking the Clippers for It everyone's been wondering, so when you said this was provably false in the days after part one of this now 13 part investigation, when you said it was provably false, can you help us understand how you're going to prove it? And at every point in this saga, there has been nothing resembling that evidence. And you'd imagine that they would want that to be communicated to the public. Right. And it's not emerged. And so what do you have? You have this question, Dan, and this is important, this question fundamentally is if you're the Supreme Court justice of this fake justice system, Adam Silver, right, do you need a signed confession in order to prosecute what seems to be the largest and most flagrant cap circumvention scheme in the history of sports, or are you willing to actually do what a real judge would? And I've talked to so many literal former federal prosecutors who are investigating aspiration, the literal case, who launched it, who have been on my show since, who have said, if this was in court in real life court, not sports court, not podcast corporate real life court, you have so much more circumstantial evidence to prosecute.

[Chris]

This is frustrating.

[Pablo Torre]

And that's what you need, circumstantial evidence in real life.

[Chris]

This is super frustrating to me. Okay, you've lost our show.

[Mike Ryan]

Your take frustrating to you? We got a week till fall camp down.

[David Sampson]

Levitar analytics have slash are ruining the game. We're playing AI Hoops.

[Chris]

That's his team. His team's at the forefront of all that. Don't steal my thunder.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm sorry.

[Chris]

I'm sorry. Sorry.

[Pablo Torre]

Jonathan Saslow.

[Chris]

I get carried away. This is the Dan Levatar show. Pablo's frustrated because he's in this rabbit hole. He's like, guys, don't you understand the very construct of sports? It's all bullshit. And, and, and, and we got the receipts with journalism. And you guys were like, shut up, I'm bored.

[Mike Ryan]

Settle down, Pablo, didn't you give this whole thing a Viking funeral at MIT Sloan we doing.

[Pablo Torre]

If only. If only that was the end. I thought it was. By the way, I, I would. So, Mike, it's a really good question, right? Why have we taken 10 months to report this story? We've mentioned RIFC. We played in the episode. We did. We played Amin reading the names of the LLCs. We just published the episode about last night. Months ago. Months ago. And we did it because on some level, I have been entirely open and inviting of other people to look into this stuff. And in the process I have been doing my own due diligence such that we don't get sued by the richest man in sports. And so we are continuing.

[Chris]

I'm at all just constrained. You're just making. You're making our lives a lot harder by not being interested.

[Mike Ryan]

Finally, your good contribution there was cutting them off.

[Chris]

Pablo's are. Pablo is articulating why we're in business and what we're doing in our business. And you guys are bored by it, even though it's your business.

[Mike Ryan]

That's right.

[Pablo Torre]

Yep.

[David Sampson]

And we're all going to jail if apparently something I know, not me. I do.

[Mike Ryan]

Terrible. Apparently. This is a RICO thing.

[Pablo Torre]

It's ethical rico. Ethical rico. It's the opposite of a rico, but it functions the same way.

[Mike Ryan]

Darian Menzies, preseason all acc.

[Chris]

All right, I'm frustrated. Pablo, thank you for your time. Pablo Torre finds out. You can do the deep dive there. Stop frustrating the viewers at the end who love you. Like,

[Pablo Torre]

I just gotta promise, if you start watching this, you will have a good time. Well, that's all I gotta say.

[Chris]

Yeah, but this is the thing you're trying. Look, this is a beautiful piece of art that he is making with Amin and David Sampson. And his story meant for our Times to be told overtime.

[Mike Ryan]

I'm glad you said that. You haven't mentioned it enough.

[Chris]

Well, I'm.

[Mike Ryan]

Okay, so all I'm saying is keep the same energy whenever mystery crate tries out new potato chips. We stopped doing that, by the way.

[Chris]

The part that I'm frustrated by is, and I think Amin might be, even though Amin likes his occasional anarchy, that Pablo is sitting here shouting from the top of the rooftops, guys, look at all this bullshit here. It's unending and it's fascinating. And you're watching the clown car of your whole system of rules is bullshit. When the richest guy can not only not get punished over here, but the rich guy over here can buy FIFA because he can just give pieces of the World cup over to his family.

[Mike Ryan]

That's America. Chris Cody's talking about chicken sausage in the YouTube chat.

[Pablo Torre]

Yeah, it's the superior sausage.

[Chris]

I mean, I could feel the audience drifting away as Pablo talked and talked and talked with more and more details. When this stuff is hard to do. And Mike's like, stop telling me how hard it is to do.

[David Sampson]

I mean, I just think, like, Pablo, the way I compared it to is like Game of Thrones. You think it's a castaway line or whatever, but every character has an incredibly rich backstory. And what we're doing on the show is basically following all these backstories that, as you so eloquently pointed out, anyone is capable and able to pick up on any one of these threads and follow them, but they're not.

[Chris]

Oh, but the thing about that, to me, that is a content farm. I mean, is Pablo's telling this story in the murder mystery, truth crime style of today's podcast, like he's unspooling a tapestry that all of these rich people, you're realizing, I mean, that some of the people in leadership, in the sport you love the most, they're in a bit of a clown car here following his investigation. I am sure the NBA's walking, watching that last night, being like, what's next that we're going to get embarrassed by here, that we don't know?

[Pablo Torre]

Wachtel and the NBA, they watch every episode. And I don't even say that braggingly. It's just been the case this entire time. I know it because I've heard it from sources directly familiar. And so look, look, I'm not here to say that we are, whatever, the most special snowflakes, and please pay attention to us. I'm merely saying that we live at a time in which the people in power have a greater ability than ever before to not tell you what's going on. The public interest has never meant less. It's true. In the state of Rhode island, the smallest state of the union, in which There are now $116.6 million of taxpayer money being apportioned to this stupid stadium over the next three decades, that happens to also be a story quite relevant to the NBA. And so I'm just here to tell you the story. Capstone Convention, to me, is not my life's mission. I don't wake up every day wondering about Capstone Convention. I wonder about what is the story here and why is it important? And the reason we did this one is because I think there's really a lesson to be learned about what the public is entitled to know with literally our money that is beyond. Just like, is Kawhi getting really his fair due as a player? That's not the issue. The issue is everything else that they use in sports to sell you on something that you're not supposed to know about.

[Mike Ryan]

Vienna sausage.

[Pablo Torre]

Second place, the chat is I love a wet sausage. The chat goes Vienna sausage and water. The chat goes Patty. I go la Link.

[Chris]

I love a wet sausage.

[Mike Ryan]

Oh, no, that's a great take, Pablo. I find it.

[Pablo Torre]

I want a tin with water in it.

[Mike Ryan]

It's so rewarding to cut open a casing.

[Chris]

Oh.

[Mike Ryan]

Oh, my God. You put that in a pasta. My God, pal.

[Pablo Torre]

Love the snap of a side sausage.

[Chris]

What is.

[Pablo Torre]

Yo. Vienna sausage.

[Chris]

Put it on the bar. Do you love a wet sausage, Pablo?

[Mike Ryan]

In Rhode island, could you compare this to what happened in Mississippi? Riff Far Marv. We were on sausages.

[Chris]

Allegedly.

[Pablo Torre]

The alleged apportioning of public money and using sports as like the playground for it. Yeah, man. This is a national. This is a national problem. I don't want to speak to the Brett Favre story because I am mindful of just making sure that I am within the bounds of what I have reported. And he is very litigious. I will simply say that if you're wondering does the governor of a US State in this story, that we apologize the audience.

[Chris]

Okay.

[David Sampson]

All right.

[Chris]

So, Pablo, this is what just happened. Roy got interested all of a sudden in Brett Favre and welfare.

[Pablo Torre]

And I love.

[Chris]

Roy ruined the wet sausage path. We were on the wet sausage path and Roy ruined it.

[Pablo Torre]

Is that what I sound like Roy was trying to talk about? What about the poor people in these sports stories you guys claim you care about? And I realized I should have gotten back to the vi. Vienna sausages too late.

[Chris]

But there. There is. I have to tell people. Okay, go find Pablo Torre finds out. He really is doing difficult work at difficult times.

[Pablo Torre]

I have a Vienna sausage story if you want that also.

[Mike Ryan]

Yes.

[Pablo Torre]

One time when I was younger, my brother, I sent him. We were playing video games. I sent him to the kitchen to get me some water. He came back and it was just a cup filled with Vienna sausage juice. Haven't been able to eat them since. It scarred me because I was expecting water. If you. You're expecting water and you sipped it and you. Yeah, because I was just like, oh, thanks for this glass of water from the kitchen.

[David Sampson]

And it was Vienna's look before I started drinking.

[Chris]

Old school guy.

[Mike Ryan]

Pablo's got something here.

[Pablo Torre]

I've tasted that water. It's not that bad. But when you're expecting water jarring.

[Chris]

Do we have anywhere the video of Pablo eating pickled pigs feet? Because to see where you've come after, you're talking about journalism and the principles that are very serious because you're trying to do an artistic thing with your people.

[Pablo Torre]

To not know that I ever did this, by the way, this is not. This is not, I think, something that I am.

[Chris]

Can you do top five shames? Can you do top five shames that you have? Like you in an orca? Costume like, now that you're a serious journalism person.

[Pablo Torre]

I was. I was eating 911 conspiracy theories dressed as an orca from Jesse Ventura and had no way to even begin to, like, fact check any of it. That was an issue for me. I ate pickled pigs feet on camera. That was a problem for me. I was lured into judging a bikini contest with Dan and Poppy and got the scoring system wrong at the Clevelander Hotel. That was a problem for me. My general association. Oh, the time I sat in on an interview that you guys did with Donald Trump when he was running for president or preparing to. That was a problem for me. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot that you guys have done to destroy my integrity that have only begun to rebuild recently. I love a wet sausage.

[Chris]

Can you.

[Pablo Torre]

That was number four.

[Chris]

You probably have to go. But I would love if someone around you, if parts of your staff could bring you some sort of sausage and you could do a wet sausage review for us. Either now or the next time.

[Pablo Torre]

Vienna sausage, white rice, a little mustard on the side.

[Chris]

I love a wet sausage. You will. You will live to regret that.

[Pablo Torre]

I love a wet. You guys like dry. Enjoy your dry sausages, you freaks.