Pablo Torre Is Desperate For External Validation | Hour 3

Summary

The Dan Le Batard Show with Stugotz

Episode: Pablo Torre Is Desperate For External Validation | Hour 3

Date: May 19, 2026

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Episode Overview

Broadcast from the Elser Hotel in Downtown Miami, this lively hour features Dan Le Batard, Stugotz, and the crew joined by journalist and podcast host Pablo Torre. The conversation ricochets through the NBA playoffs, the rise of Victor Wembanyama, the ethics of modern mentalism (particularly focused on Oz the Mentalist), the pursuit of external validation after career triumphs (like Pablo's recent Pulitzer win), and the competitive spirit of media personalities such as Mina Kimes. The group’s signature blend of irreverence, inside jokes, and debate weaves sports commentary with pop culture, all punctuated by games and playful jabs.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NBA Playoffs, LeBron, and the Wemby Phenomenon

• Discussion about LeBron James’s hints at retirement and his legacy, in tandem with the limited series "The Step Back."
  • “LeBron says he plans to, quote, recalibrate with my family and talk with them… to inform his decision about retirement.” (03:39)
• Debate on Victor “Wemby” Wembanyama as the next potential NBA main character post-LeBron, and Adam Silver’s relief at the hype.
  • “Wemby is... really meant to be the next phase of this TV show, that's what Wemby is.” (04:16)
  • The show considers if Wemby is more likely to "save" or "ruin" basketball due to his dominance.
    • Dan: “Your vote would be on our Twitter poll. He's more likely to save the sport than ruin it?” (05:05)
• The panel speculate about “villain arcs” in sports, pondering the evolutionary trajectory of now-beloved stars.
  • “The question will be: When does Goliath just become Goliath and the villain?” (06:12)
• Tony claims Wemby has a “tinge of evil” in his eye (07:01), leading to discussions about perception, legal terms ("mens rea"), and narrative-building in sports coverage.

2. Oz the Mentalist: The Ethics and Illusion of Modern Magic

• Pablo’s latest podcast episode scrutinizes Oz the Mentalist, raising the question of honesty and fraud in mentalism.
  • “What Oz is doing is not okay... what he’s doing is abusing the basic parameters that he is setting out as his constraints.” (17:07)
• In-depth conversation about how magicians traditionally protect their secrets versus Oz’s viral, possibly deceptive techniques.
  • “These are people... the number one most important thing that they fear with me is that you will violate the secret agreement to not reveal how tricks are done.” (15:34)
  • Oz’s rise by “breaking the magician’s code” angers peers because fans might discover tricks are less impressive than they look.
    • “If people know how the trick is done, then he can't do the trick anymore.” (20:31)
  • Notable anecdote: Charles Barkley inadvertently called out the trick on live TV (20:09).
  • Pablo dodges the “friend of frauds” label, clarifying he respects the artistry but values honest magic (Penn & Teller as gold standard).

3. Pablo Torre’s Validation, The Pulitzer, and ‘Method’ Man

• Pablo’s Pulitzer win becomes a running theme, with the crew roasting him for "Apex Mountain of self-regard" and elaborate acceptance scenarios.
  • “You accepted the Pulitzer Prize. You were standing on some sort of like red staircase... the Pulitzer Prize winner.” (22:01, Tony)
  • “Yes, we have reached Apex Mountain of self regard.” (22:12, Pablo)
• Jokes about Pablo’s texting etiquette with Method Man (saved as “Method” in his contacts), and generational divides on phone usage.
  • “He doesn’t refer to him as either Method Man or Meth, he keeps referring to him as Method. And it just seems impossibly wrong.” (21:00)
  • Pablo defends: “In my phone, his first name is Method and his last name is Man.” (22:52)

4. Games & Banter: “Movies with Greg Cody”

• Game segment where Greg Cody tries to identify iconic movie lines—chaos and confusion ensues.
  • Standout moment: Cody hears "To infinity and beyond" and guesses “Back to the Future.”
    • “The Back to the Future.” (30:11, Greg Cody)
  • Everyone piles on: “He called Matthew McConaughey cowboy hat.” (29:42)
• Playful squabbles build camaraderie and display the show’s chemistry.

5. Celebrity Competition and Validation

• The crew compares Pablo's Pulitzer to Mina Kimes’ string of game show wins (Celebrity Jeopardy, Family Feud, and as a lifeline on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire).
  • “Put it on the poll at Lebatard show. More impressive, Pablo winning the Pulitzer or Mina Kimes winning Celebrity Jeopardy.” (33:55, Dan)
  • Pablo notes: “She is in fact the most competitive person on planet Earth.” (34:34)
  • On the culture of validation and the pressure after celebrated achievements:
    • “There are two ways this goes. One is you celebrate for months... and the other way is that it ruins your life. And I’m hoping it’s not the latter.” (33:27, Pablo)

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Notable/Memorable Quotes

• On the Wemby Era:

  • “The question has always been: when LeBron leaves... Who is going to be the sun of our solar system?” (04:05, Dan)
  • “When does Goliath just become Goliath and the villain? I think the villain arc is going to be... maybe after he wins three titles.” (06:12, Dan)

• On Oz the Mentalist:

  • “Oz was somebody that I had been frustrated by because... magicians’ response is: ‘Screw that guy.’” (15:16, Pablo)
  • “He is abusing the basic parameters that he is setting out as his constraints. And there is dishonesty among thieves that the other thieves in this metaphor cannot abide by.” (19:07, Pablo)

• On Winning:

  • “Yes, we have reached Apex Mountain of self regard.” (22:12, Pablo)
  • “This is like first sentence of your obituary stuff... should I receive an obituary, which, you know, newspapers or media may not exist when I... by the time I die.” (32:57, Pablo)
  • “I’m hoping that I don’t get swallowed by... an even greater chase for more. Because... the game of external validation...” (33:38, Pablo)

• On Mina Kimes:

  • “She’s a monster. She’s winning every game show. It’s incredible.” (34:54, Pablo)
  • “Is she beating you presently at life?” (35:45, Dan)
  • “There is no competition. I’m over.” (36:02, Pablo)

• On Pop Culture Hierarchies:

  • “But the other stuff in a dumber America, the other stuff is the stuff that gets more...” (37:10, Pablo)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• NBA/Wemby Discussion: 03:39 – 08:07
• Oz the Mentalist & Magic Ethics: 14:06 – 20:47
• Pablo's Contacts & "Method": 21:00 – 22:59
• Pulitzer, Validation, & Mina Kimes: 32:17 – 37:10
• Movies with Greg Cody Game: 26:18 – 31:47

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Episode Tone & Style

• Language: Playfully combative, smart, conversational.
• Style: Rapid-fire, full of inside jokes, and meta-commentary on fame & the media.
• Vibe: Unfiltered, honest, and equally likely to break down sports, pop culture, or its own absurdity.

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Summary Takeaway

This hour of The Dan Le Batard Show is a tapestry of sports analysis, media meta-commentary, and high-functioning chaos. With Pablo Torre as both subject and instigator, the crew juggles the meaning of cultural capital (from Pulitzers to pop-culture game shows), the ethics of success—whether in basketball or mentalism—and the quest for validation that haunts even those at the top. If you want insights delivered with wit, banter, and a little existential dread about chasing the next big win, this episode is essential.

Transcript

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[Dan Le Batard]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the Stugats podcast.

[Tony]

That's right.

[Greg Cody]

All right, you know what? Let's do this again.

[Tony]

It's Thursday, Thunder.

[Unidentified Female Co-host]

No, let's keep this going.

[Greg Cody]

5, 4, 3, 2.

[Pablo Torre]

You should leave all of that in, by the way. All of it.

[Greg Cody]

Thanks, Dan.

[Pablo Torre]

Leave all of it in.

[Sports Analyst 1]

No choice now against the spread.

[Sports Analyst 2]

We'll keep it in.

[Greg Cody]

Is brought to you by drafting.

[Unidentified Male Co-host]

We'll keep it in.

[Greg Cody]

DraftKings. The crown is yours, Roy.

[Sports Analyst 1]

On Wednesday, the Western Conference final gets underway with game one between Vegas and Colorado. I'm not gonna have any stats for you here. It's going going to be Colorado against the spread. They are one and a half goal favorites in that game. And on Wednesday at 8 o', clock, please tune in because the hockey show has a watch along from game one at the Western Conference final. So please join us for that game.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Tony. All right.

[Tony]

We're gonna stay in the association. New York Knicks.

[Greg Cody]

He was not in the Association.

[Pablo Torre]

He was not in the Association. He was clear.

[Tony]

We're gonna stay in the association because I'm calling back to the last time I did against the spread.

[Sports Analyst 3]

You know, hockey and the NBA are.

[Tony]

You're not listening to what I'm saying. I'm talking about the last time I did against a spread. I was in the association. Now I'm staying in the association and I'm going with the New York Knicks -7 and a half against the Cleveland Cavaliers. I know the Knicks have been on the bench for a while because it's been seven and a half. Excuse me.

[Sports Analyst 3]

They're on the bench.

[Tony]

Are you going to let me talk or you just going to interrupt me every single time.

[Pablo Torre]

I'm sorry to do this to you, Tony. Minor penalty. Two minutes for leaking confidence.

[Tony]

And now Pablo's there laughing like it's

[Greg Cody]

like you're going to stay in the penalty box.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Actually.

[Tony]

Okay, seven and a half against the spread. Take the Knicks tonight. I know they've been been out for a while. Whatever. Who cares?

[Sports Analyst 3]

It's you give Me that spread.

[Pablo Torre]

Mike Wilbon says that it's the junior varsity game tonight.

[Sports Analyst 1]

Do I have to go?

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, you got to spend two minutes.

[Tony]

I wanted to talk to Pablo so bad about the Knicks.

[Pablo Torre]

How about about the Pulitzer? Did you want to talk to him about the Pulitzer? Before we get to Pablo, just an update. LeBron says he plans to, quote, recalibrate with my family and talk with them and spend some time with them, end quote, over the next few weeks to inform his decision about retirement. Over the year, I spent some time with Amin and Izzy and we also talked to people like Jim Gray and John Skipper about the decision. We talked to people like Jamel Hill, Kerry Champion, Pablo, Iman Shumpert about race and politics and fame and championships and legacy and yes, retirement. It's a limited series we're calling the Step Back. It's about recalibrating and appreciating the influence of the influence of LeBron James. It's something we're proud of. It's something informed. Episode two drops today on our PODC podcast feeds. It's all about the decision. Jeremy is already forgetting about LeBron and declaring WEMBY the best basketball player who has ever existed after last night's game. Pablo, what's fair in terms of hyperventilation, when a 22 year old does something that hasn't been seen this deep in the playoffs since Shaquille o' Neal in

[Sports Analyst 2]

his prime, it's fair to say that

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

I think we have a new main character.

[Sports Analyst 2]

Like officially, I think the LeBron comparison is really inappropriate sort of precedent.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

The question has always been when LeBron leaves.

[Sports Analyst 2]

And LeBron was doing this, of course, for one zillion years at a level that demanded that we take him seriously and pay him attention.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

What's going to follow?

[Sports Analyst 2]

And we got, of course Steph and we got kd.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

But in terms of a singular character that is really meant to be the next like phase of this TV show, that's what Wemby is.

[Sports Analyst 2]

And he's not the same.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Obviously he's very different from LeBron in multiple ways. But who is going to be the son of our solar system? Like, that's what we're really talking about. And because Steph coexisted with LeBron, it

[Sports Analyst 2]

was never going to be Steph, because LeBron still existed.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

But now I think this whole retirement will he, won't he? How is that going to be handled into this game? If you see of the NBA, the potential for television for a show like this has been the greatest relief to Adam Silver. Imaginable in an otherwise really hard year for Adam Silver, managing lots of different crises.

[Pablo Torre]

So your vote would be on our Twitter poll. He's more likely to save the sport than ruin it.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Absolutely. Who's saying he's going to? What's the argument for ruining it?

[Sports Analyst 2]

Is that he's going to be too good? Is that the.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Is that the argument Unfair? Like, it's not going to be close.

[Sports Analyst 2]

You're saying that, like, he's going to be beyond what Michael Jordan did. Like, he's going to just collect everything.

[Pablo Torre]

Well, Michael Jordan was a the size of a mortal. Michael Jordan wasn't bigger than everyone else. We don't usually celebrate the Giants. That's not a thing.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Well, I think what's going to happen, though, and I'm already sort of detecting

[Sports Analyst 2]

it because I unfortunately have to also try and see around the corner of, like, how does the story turn is

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

right now you have Goliath, who's also David, and that's such a special honeymoon.

[Sports Analyst 2]

Dan, like the idea. And again, the Internet.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Adam Silver, notably the commissioner of the NBA in that Atlantic piece, there is

[Sports Analyst 2]

this indication that he is on a burner account, essentially. Just reading all of NBA Twitter.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

And what you saw over the last 24 hours in this focus group is

[Sports Analyst 2]

that everybody is in on Wemby.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Like, even the people who tried to

[Sports Analyst 2]

figure out what's the zag here. Everyone's like, we must genuflect.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

And so you have Goliath in the way that you just described, seemingly unfair, proportionally, in all of these senses, who's also David, this underdog because he is so young, because this seems still unlikely. And the question will be, when does Goliath just become Goliath and the villain? I think the villain arc is going to be. I don't know how many years it'll take for us to get there. Maybe it'll be after he wins three titles and he's actively threatening the goat conversation in a way that doesn't feel like you're trying to get in on early with something, but rather just saying what's clearly being demonstrated in front of us. But at that point, you're going to

[Sports Analyst 2]

get the utility of a different sort of character, which is the bad guy.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

And that how he manages that is

[Sports Analyst 2]

going to be also super fascinating.

[Tony]

Pablo, he's not already the bad guy now after a, after a huge elbow to Nas Reed, after just, I don't know, there's a tinge of evil I see in his eyes. And maybe I'm just early. Maybe I'M maybe a kook, right? Maybe I'm the guy saying the sky is falling. I don't know.

[Sports Analyst 3]

Evil too.

[Tony]

There's a tinge of evil in his eye, Dan. And I don't like the. The tinge of evil the way he. What climate? The Cl. Nobody. Everybody's been very quiet about the climate recently. Anyways, long story short, he's got a tinge of evil in his eye. Pablo, Tori and I don't know if you can see it as a guy who kind of sees some things sometimes.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

We, we.

[Sports Analyst 2]

We did do an episode today about O's the Mentalist. Whose whole job, his legend is that he notices things. Nonverbal cues, pupil dilations, lip flutters, all of these things.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

And if you are seeing.

[Sports Analyst 2]

They call it in the law, Tony, they call it mens rea malice, right?

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

The tinge of evil has a legal sort of basis. And if you're saying that you see

[Sports Analyst 2]

in Victor Wembanyama the sort of like Darth Vader he's about to become. Thank you.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

You. Look, play this back, Dan. Assuming we have been hit by an asteroid in five years, like Tony might be ahead of the curve.

[Sports Analyst 3]

Hold on a second.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Take that. He wants to make.

[Sports Analyst 3]

Hold on a second. O's the Mentalist.

[Tony]

No, it's O's.

[Sports Analyst 3]

No, it's Oz.

[Sports Analyst 2]

I regret to inform you, Zaz, that it is O's.

[Pablo Torre]

No, I have not been this stunned since they told me. Told me that Dr. Seuss is actually Dr. Soyce.

[Tony]

No, that's not true.

[Sports Analyst 2]

That's like GIF versus GIF. I refuse at this point.

[Greg Cody]

And finally.

[Sports Analyst 2]

We're not doing that.

[Pablo Torre]

What do you mean we're not doing that?

[Unidentified Male Participant]

You just did the same thing. You just said something owes. The Mentalist is not something any of us and heard.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Well, I think that's just because a lot of this country is watching these

[Sports Analyst 2]

clips on mute and they're like, I get the gist. I'm scrolling past this.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Oh, look, it's the wizard of O. The wizard of O. I am not

[Sports Analyst 2]

saying it's the wizard of O.

[Sports Analyst 3]

The show on HBO is not.

[Sports Analyst 2]

Oh man, I hate you guys.

[Sports Analyst 1]

Do anything.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

We didn't do anything other than get befuddled. We were. You stunned us with Oz the Mentalist. None of us call him Oz the Mentalist.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Well, look, I am not here. How did I. I just published an episode with this guy who debunks mentalism and specifically owes the Mentalist. And now you're making me into a guy who wants to ride for O's the mentalist. Just because know what his name is pronounced like that is the quagmire that

[Sports Analyst 2]

I am finding here.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

We're showing our ass because the guy is in many ways allegedly performing fraud.

[Shabba]

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[Commercial Voice / Host]

Tony, you know that moment at a party or at a tailgate where everything just sort of clicks?

[Tony]

I know it. Well, it's usually when I show up, everybody goes crazy.

[Commercial Voice / Host]

Yeah, you usually take all the credit for it, but it's because Tony usually walks in with Cuervo.

[Tony]

Walking like this.

[Dan Le Batard]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Commercial Voice / Host]

Cuervo is a thing that turns hanging out into this is the night.

[Tony]

It has that effect on people. It does.

[Commercial Voice / Host]

You usually take the credit for it, but again, it's the Cuervo effect. It's like that moment in a big game where everyone in the crowd just starts standing up, hooting and hollering. Keep it Cuervo.

[Tony]

Keep it Cuervo, baby.

[Commercial Voice / Host]

Chris, Cody, when you come over to my house and we put on the games, I got basketball, I got baseball going on. But what do I lay out for you and the boys for entertainment and drinking?

[Greg Cody]

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[Commercial Voice / Host]

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[Greg Cody]

Oh, when you open that with the can, though, and you.

[Commercial Voice / Host]

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[Greg Cody]

I have goosebumps thinking about the first sip.

[Commercial Voice / Host]

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[Greg Cody]

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[Commercial Voice / Host]

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[Sports Commentator]

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[Commercial Voice / Host]

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[Dan Le Batard]

Don LeBatard is there.

[Pablo Torre]

Back in my Day.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

There is, actually.

What?

[Commercial Voice / Host]

Were you not gonna tell anyone? Wait a minute, you guys, Guys, it's a Tuesday.

[Dan Le Batard]

Stugarts, here's your guy. Greg Cody with Back in My Day.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Okay, here it is. Sorry, adultery.

[Commercial Voice / Host]

We're waiting for this one.

[Dan Le Batard]

This is the Dan Levatar show with the stugats.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Let me ask you this question. Do you find him impressive? Yeah, like some. Look, I'm trying to. He is like the new David Blaine. And so far, do people in the container. Do you guys respect the David Blaine? Sort of like, yes. Again, LeBron to Wemby. We're talking David Blaine to O's the Mentalist.

[Tony]

We're not even talking about the same zip code. No, no. David Blaine did feats of amazing strength. And on top of that, like, endurance. Exactly. Extreme things. Oh, it's the Mentalist reads, you know, Joe Rogan is his credit card number, and everybody freaks out. Like, this guy is not. David Blaney could not even snip David

[Pablo Torre]

Blaine, but it's impressive.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

What did he do?

[Pablo Torre]

In your episode, Pablo Torre finds out is the Pulitzer Prize winning podcast as a part of Metal Arc Media. What did he awe you with anything that he did? Because they're magic tricks, Right?

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Well, this is the key thing, is

[Sports Analyst 2]

that Oze did not respond to our request for comment. So he's not a guest on the show. The way we did the show was there is a guy in Australia whose name is Stevie Baskin. He works at a law firm and

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

he did his own five hour dissection of this. And Oze, when I saw that five

[Sports Analyst 2]

hour video, Oz was somebody that I

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

had been frustrated by because the question, I love magic. I love going to magic shows. I have friends who, who are magicians. And I have been asking around, like,

[Sports Analyst 2]

what do you think of this guy?

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

And these are people, Dan, who normally are like, the number one most important

[Sports Analyst 2]

thing that they fear with me is

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

that you will violate the secret agreement to not reveal how tricks are done

[Sports Analyst 2]

because they want to preserve a sense

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

of wonder around magic.

[Sports Analyst 2]

And I again, love going to magic shows. I get it.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

I've pretty much respected that. But with this character. Oh is when you ask other mentalists and magicians about it, their response is, screw that guy. That guy's a problem. That guy is what he's doing is not okay. And so it raised this question of like, so why? Why do they feel that way? What are the norms around a code of ethics, around mentalism that he is violating? And that's what the episode is about. How does he do it? And then why should you care? Aren't all magicians liars? What's different here? And I think it speaks to a code, a code that once you see it, I think this is my argument. It makes what he is, which is the most viral and platformed and most successful magician slash mentalist on the Internet, the guy who was in between Donald and Melania Trump at the White House Correspondents Dinner.

[Sports Analyst 2]

Right?

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

That's where he was. He's been in every locker room, every sports show. He's been on this very show before. His whole thing becomes suddenly extraordinarily different when you realize how he does his best tricks.

[Sports Analyst 2]

And that's what the episode is fundamentally about.

[Pablo Torre]

He's a Pulitzer Prize winner and a respecter of magic. He's Pablo Torres as. What do you have for Pablo, the respecter of magic?

[Sports Analyst 3]

Pablo, you said you have. You said plural. Magicians. You have friends who are magicians. You're telling me that you have multiple friends whose career is magic?

[Sports Analyst 2]

Absolutely.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

I'm a friend to magicians.

[Tony]

Pulitzer Prize winner.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

I marvel. I marvel at their arts.

[Sports Analyst 2]

I think.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Look, magic to me is a mystery that the magician is daring the audience to solve. And so the question, I mean, Penn and Teller, by the way, I consider

[Sports Analyst 2]

the gold standard here.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

They call themselves honest magicians, which feels paradoxical because, of course, a magician is there to con you. But really what the magician is doing is creating a set of parameters through which the audience cannot solve this puzzle. And so how is it possible that Oz the Mentalist does things that are unexplainable within the parameters, within the rules that he is himself saying he is following? And what he says over and over again is, we do not use superpowers.

[Sports Analyst 2]

I'm not a psychic.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

I don't read minds. What I do after 30 years of reverse engineering human behav, is read body language. I read how your nonverbal cues are suggesting the truth that you are holding, that you are not saying aloud. And he's sold books, he's toured on this basis. The difference between magic and mentalism says is that mentalism is seemingly a skill that you can learn. If you watch O's and listen to him closely enough, you too can do the thing of reading what OH eyeballs are telling you. By fluttering around, by reading someone's posture, the way they hold their hands, you can in fact divine the names of their childhood best friends and their pin codes. And all of this. And of course, what he is actually doing, spoiler alert. Is a lot of stuff he does not disclose that has infuriated all of his competitors, not merely because he is

[Sports Analyst 2]

winning so much, winning all this money,

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

followers, fame, but because he is abusing the basic parameters that he is setting out as his constraints. And there is dishonesty among thieves that the other thieves in this metaphor cannot abide by.

[Pablo Torre]

How is he going to feel about this episode?

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

I mean, he didn't respond.

[Sports Analyst 2]

His reps didn't respond for comment.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

I think the fear, and this is something that I thought a lot about, the fear is if people know how

[Sports Analyst 2]

the thing is done and they realize how much less impressive it is when you see the mechanics of it and some of the characters that emerge, by the way, in the, in the tape that we've been sort of like film rooming here, like it's game tape.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

It's Charles Barkley, it's the busing with the boys guys, it's sports hosts. Because what OSU has done by running these plays over and over again is inevitably run the risk of revealing some of those seams and sutures around how

[Sports Analyst 2]

he's actually doing it.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

And Charles Barkley, for instance, in one example that we play, calls it out totally unwittingly and reveals, in fact, that this is all a, again, an alleged equivalent of fraud in a way that I think oh's would be bothered to hear.

[Sports Analyst 2]

Not just because that accusation Feels weighty that Stevie Baskin makes in our episode.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

But also because if people know how the trick is done, then he can't do the trick anymore. And he does these tricks more often and more visibly than anyone else in the business. And so I think there is, there is the concern that, like, I gotta figure out something else.

[Sports Analyst 2]

And that would be frustrating, I would imagine, if enough people pay attention.

[Sports Analyst 3]

What do you think his reaction is going to be? To hear you call him O's?

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

I think you will feel seen and heard.

[Pablo Torre]

He knows.

[Sports Analyst 2]

I think you'll feel seen and heard.

[Pablo Torre]

Tony, we were making fun of Pablo. We've been making fun of Pablo because he's on a text string with Method Man. I should have never allowed it. And he doesn't refer to him as either Method man or meth. He keeps referring to him as Method. And it just seems impossibly wrong.

[Tony]

Pablo, are you running bid here? Are you doing the thing where you're like, I'm going to try to make this uncomfortable and like, do my thing and like, ah, I'm going to be Pablo.

[Sports Analyst 2]

What does that mean?

[Tony]

You know what that means?

[Sports Analyst 3]

You know what I mean?

[Tony]

You know exactly what that means. Live from MSNBC and live from the Harvard Club and live from, you know, whatever.

[Sports Analyst 1]

Yeah, Pablo.

[Tony]

The Met gala. Here's Pablo. He's a Pulitzer Prize winner and some sort of super futuristic building. I'm here, look.

[Sports Analyst 1]

He finds out just standing on the.

[Tony]

On the. He's standing on the stairs and other people watching him from down low. And he's standing up high.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

40 podcast awards.

[Tony]

Look at him.

[Sports Analyst 2]

He's incredible.

[Tony]

Oh my God. That's what I mean.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Yeah. You have me in like the, in a super future. Like Avengers Tower. Yeah, like, like where the Jetsons live.

[Tony]

Exactly right. Exactly right. You accepted the Pulitzer Prize. You were standing on some sort of like red staircase and like this super futuristic building. And then everybody was looking over you and I was like, oh my God, he's here. The Pulitzer Prize winner.

[Pablo Torre]

Yes, we have reached Apex Mountain of self regard.

[Sports Analyst 2]

As. As the New York Post. Oh, no, the Daily News. I forget who said Mount Pablo and coined that. It has come.

[Tony]

That's another part.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Yeah, that's another realize.

[Tony]

Yeah. Was it the Post? Was it the Journal? Was it the Exchange? I don't remember. Was it the Queen?

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

The Method thing is an example of

[Sports Analyst 2]

Dan not knowing how cell phones work. So I have been adding at mentioning Method man, who is saved in my phone as Method man, but in my

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

phone his first name is Method and

[Sports Analyst 2]

his last name is man, because of

[Pablo Torre]

course, you're referring to Method Man. And so as Method, when you're talking

[Greg Cody]

to Method, I think if there's an ad, it is a little different. Bold.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

So you guys get it.

[Sports Analyst 2]

I am tagging Method man, whose first name in my phone is Method. And when I tag Dan, I go at Dan to alert Dan that I've mentioned him in this conversation.

[Unidentified Female Co-host]

Yeah, we went from Pablo's a nerd to Dan's old.

[Sports Analyst 1]

This changed everything.

[Tony]

Dan, you see how the contacts saved

[Sports Analyst 2]

in a different way?

[Tony]

Right? You got that part. Like if you saved Method man the whole time in his. In his. Although it would do it.

[Greg Cody]

Saving Method man in your phone. First name Method, last name man is odd.

[Unidentified Female Co-host]

That is very.

[Greg Cody]

I would have just gone first name Method Man.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Co-host]

But then he'd be adding Method man in full regard the entire time.

[Sports Analyst 2]

And I think that's worse. Yeah. Yeah.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Again, I just. That's how I assume people want to be called.

[Sports Analyst 3]

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[Sports Commentator]

The road to the NBA Finals ends here, with star guard setting the tone. The Cavs eye another upset, while the Knicks carry the dreams of all of New York.

[Sports Analyst 3]

Bang.

[Sports Commentator]

The Eastern Conference Finals Cavaliers Knicks game one tonight on ESPN.

[Dan Le Batard]

Don LeBatard.

[Pablo Torre]

You don't remember the idea?

[Greg Cody]

I was probably like that kind of thing. Something.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Okay. No the home run call was that kind of swing, that kind of thing.

[Dan Le Batard]

Sts.

[Sports Analyst 1]

Oh, it's a good call.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Thank you. And plus, it doesn't matter who's hitting it. Like, you're not tailoring it to a particular name. You know, all that jazz, you know, you don't got to do that. You just.

[Sports Analyst 1]

Oh, that would be a great call.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Swing, that kind of thing.

[Dan Le Batard]

This is the D ler show with the st.

[Pablo Torre]

Let's play movies with Greg Cody here while Pablo's here, let's see what we have.

[Unidentified Male Co-host]

Oh, God.

[Pablo Torre]

Greg Cody doesn't know about movies. You could check it out at Greg Cody show featuring Greg Cody. Let's play the latest movie clip.

[Greg Cody]

All right, Greg, what movie is this from you?

[Dan Le Batard]

Brennan, I know you touched my drum set and I want to hear that dirty little mouth admit it.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Okay. Music, drums.

[Pablo Torre]

No chance on that, though.

[Dan Le Batard]

Brennan, I know you touched my drum set and I want to hear that dirty little mouth.

[Greg Cody]

How many of you touched my drum set is iconic.

[Pablo Torre]

How many of these do you have? How many do you have left?

[Greg Cody]

I have, like, five more.

[Pablo Torre]

All right, play them all. Let's see if you can get any of them.

[Shabba]

You don't know that one.

[Greg Cody]

That was Step brothers. Okay, okay, here's the next one.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

I'm funny.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

How?

[Unidentified Male Participant]

I mean, funny like I'm a clown. I amuse you? I make you laugh? I'm here to amuse you? What do you mean, funny? Funny how? How am I funny?

Oh, I like that. I'm close to that one. He plays a lawyer.

[Sports Analyst 2]

Yes.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Okay.

Oh, he does.

[Dan Le Batard]

He does.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

He does.

[Unidentified Male Co-host]

He does.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

He does in My Cousin Vinny.

[Dan Le Batard]

Exactly.

[Tony]

No, but.

[Sports Analyst 1]

No, that is not.

[Pablo Torre]

It's not my cousin Vinny.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

I thought it was good. He's playing a lawyer.

[Tony]

You were right on that.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

That's Goodfellas. That's not my cousin Vinny. That's Goodfellas.

Stars in both of them.

[Greg Cody]

My cousin is on the right track.

[Sports Analyst 3]

Two Utes.

[Greg Cody]

That's my cousin.

[Pablo Torre]

Play another one for him.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Credit. Have credit.

[Pablo Torre]

No, no credit.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Half credit.

[Tony]

You call this guy Danny DeVito earlier?

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Zero credit.

[Greg Cody]

All right, here's the next one.

[Tony]

No, I am your father.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Star Wars.

[Pablo Torre]

Which one?

[Sports Analyst 3]

Which one?

[Pablo Torre]

Oh, come on, that's close enough.

[Sports Analyst 1]

No, no, no, no, it's not. It's not close enough. No, that's not. It's not close enough. It was not close enough for him.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

That's a point.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Greg, what are the names of the other Star wars movies in that trilogy?

[Sports Analyst 2]

Do you know what they are?

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Well, I just Saw the Empire Strikes Back. And the third one, it should be the Empire Strikes Back, Jack. I don't know the third one.

[Sports Analyst 3]

I mean, if you. If you just saw the Empire Strike Back, like that's from the Empire Strikes Back.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

The third one has the word Jedi in it.

[Sports Analyst 1]

The Return of.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Put it on the pole. Should it be the Empire Strikes Back, Jack at Lebiton Show?

[Sports Analyst 2]

And you know it.

[Tony]

All right, I got another one.

[Sports Analyst 3]

Very good.

[Unidentified Male Co-host]

All right, all right, all right.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Oh, I love that guy.

[Pablo Torre]

Who's that guy?

[Unidentified Male Participant]

It's, you know, the swaggery Texan.

Yeah, yeah.

[Tony]

He played a lawyer.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Yes, I do know who you mean. Do you know who you mean a lawyer?

I know. I know his face.

[Unidentified Male Co-host]

All right, all right, all right.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

What is the name of that movie?

[Pablo Torre]

What's the name of the guy?

[Sports Analyst 2]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

I don't know. He's wearing a hat. I don't know. Cowboy hat.

Nice hat.

[Tony]

Sometimes.

[Unidentified Male Co-host]

No, no, no.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

That's a backward cat.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

His name is cowboy hat.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

No, I just don't know the name of the film. Say it one more time.

[Unidentified Male Co-host]

All right, all right, all right.

[Pablo Torre]

It's not gonna help you.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Long weekend?

[Greg Cody]

No, that's Dazed and confused. Matthew McConaughey is what you were looking for, dad.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

McConaughey? Yeah.

[Pablo Torre]

Is it McConaughey or McConaughey? Is it McConaughey or Mcconaughey?

[Greg Cody]

I go, hey, hey, hey, hey.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

I have two more here.

[Greg Cody]

One is insanely human cowboy hat.

[Sports Analyst 2]

In Greg's defense, one of these is

[Greg Cody]

insanely easy and it would hilarious if he missed it. The other one is kind of difficult. He definitely won't get.

[Pablo Torre]

All right, don't give him the difficult one. Let's see if we punctuate this with the easy one.

[Greg Cody]

All right, here we go.

[Unidentified Male Co-host]

To infinity and beyond.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

The Back to the Future.

[Sports Analyst 1]

No, close.

[Greg Cody]

You thought that was Christopher Lloyd.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

It's a good guess.

[Tony]

No, it's not.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

What? It's not a good guess.

[Tony]

He missed the Back to the Future one last time. That's ridiculous.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

This time he called Matthew McConaughey cowboy hat. I think this is a win.

[Sports Analyst 2]

I think Back to the Future is

[Unidentified Male Participant]

a win in the surprise winner. Just anointed me a winner.

[Unidentified Male Co-host]

Infinity and beyond says.

[Pablo Torre]

Are you disgusted?

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Are you look disgusted?

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Yeah.

[Sports Analyst 3]

I mean, how can you be a guy and not know these movies?

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Back to the Future was a good guess.

[Unidentified Female Co-host]

What?

[Pablo Torre]

Well, just the only reason it was

[Unidentified Male Participant]

a good guess is because it seems like something that would be said in a futuristic time travel movie.

Okay.

It's not actually A good guess. I'm just.

[Unidentified Female Co-host]

The more I listen to it and I hear that voice, the more I could see a crazed Christopher Lloyd saying this.

[Unidentified Male Co-host]

To infinity and beyond.

[Unidentified Female Co-host]

The and beyond.

[Commercial Voice / Host]

Back to the future.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

It's a little close.

[Greg Cody]

There could have been worse guesses, but it's still insanely.

[Tony]

I mean, it's not even close.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Half credit.

[Greg Cody]

Did you know it yet? Have you seen like, do you know what movie this is?

[Unidentified Male Participant]

No.

[Greg Cody]

It's the most like, popular animated franchise ever.

[Unidentified Male Co-host]

One of them, Infinity and Beyond.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Steamboat Willie.

[Greg Cody]

Alrighty.

[Sports Analyst 1]

No.

[Pablo Torre]

You think Mickey Mouse is saying that?

[Unidentified Male Participant]

I think one of his cohorts is the Mouse has his hands on the steering wheel. There's a voice over there going, to infinity and beyond.

[Sports Analyst 3]

You feel like that that boat's taking them to infinity and beyond?

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Could be. What's the name of the movie?

[Greg Cody]

It's Toy Story.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Toy Story. That's not from Toy Story.

[Sports Analyst 1]

That is from Toy Story.

[Tony]

The main character's main phrase.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Really?

[Greg Cody]

People were arguing, by the way, that Woody is Tom Hanks most popular role.

[Pablo Torre]

Ooh, put it on the poll. At LeBatard show. Tom Hanks most popular role Woody or Forrest Gump at LeBatard show. Pablo. What other details? By the way, congratulations on your Pulitzer victory. Has it actually changed your life in any meaningful way?

[Sports Analyst 2]

It's our Pulitzer victory to be very. Not even self effacing, but like, true. It's Dan. Dan is the guest in one of the episodes and he's also the person who paid for all of it. So that's real.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

And it has changed a lot. I mean, insofar as I, despite Tony's

[Sports Analyst 2]

characterization of me, am somebody who is always trying to figure out, like, okay,

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

let me bring myself back to ground

[Sports Analyst 2]

level and not get too high off of any given sort of award thing. And this one repeatedly has been shoved in my face.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Gloriously shoved in my face. Is like, no, this is like first

[Sports Analyst 2]

sentence of your obituary stuff. Should I receive an obituary which, you know, newspapers or media may not exist when I. By the time I die, but if obits are written like, Dan, that's what this is. And so I am both like in awe of that and hardened that some

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

stuff I've done will sort of like

[Sports Analyst 2]

last in that regard. But someone pointed out to me, you know, someone who works in journalism who, who knows various people who've won these things.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

There are two ways this goes. One is you celebrate for months and you're delighted by it. And you are also just like, back to work. And the other way is that it ruins your life.

[Sports Analyst 2]

And I'm hoping it's not the latter. I'm hoping that I don't get swallowed by. Yeah. An even greater chase for more. Because I think that in some ways, like the game of external validation, this

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

is not too real. I'm sorry.

[Pablo Torre]

Up to you. It's entirely that choice you just put

[Unidentified Male Participant]

in front of us.

[Pablo Torre]

You get to decide that. And yes, it became too real. Put it on the poll at Lebatard show. More impressive. Pablo winning the Pulitzer or Mina Kimes winning Celebrity Jeopardy. She won Celebrity Jeopardy. She got a billion for charity. Katie Nolan was among her victims that she knocked out. Have you done an episode on this with me? Have you talked to Mina about this yet?

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

I have.

[Sports Analyst 2]

Without breaking too many journalistic covenants, I've been awaiting this episode because sheer. The sheer delight that Mina has had on her face when I ask how has it been going on Celebrity Jeopardy? Given that she is in fact the most competitive person on planet Earth and

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

people are still surprised by that, Dan.

[Sports Analyst 2]

They don't realize how competitive Mina Times is. The sheer delight on her face made me think that something amazing has happened in the taped episodes. And yeah, it's, it's, it's.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

She's a monster.

[Sports Analyst 2]

She's winning every game show. It's incredible. Like she won Celebrity Family Feud. I was on her team. She was the person who provided the million dollar answer on Wants to be a Millionaire to Alan Yang who won that. She was the lifeline, the phone, a friend. She has now won Celebrity Jeopardy. I presume she will go on. I think Wheel of Fortune is my hope next and she will try to become the. Yeah.

[Sports Analyst 1]

Who.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

What is the athlete comparison to like

[Sports Analyst 2]

the Bo Jackson of like didn't win enough titles? I don't really know.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Is there a precedent for someone who wins every celebrity game show competition?

[Sports Analyst 2]

Because that's what Min Times is doing.

[Pablo Torre]

She also is the host of the spelling bee as. As well. She just became.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

Nina is going to come. She's going to be the first player host.

[Sports Analyst 2]

I think she's going to beat all

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

of those kids at spelling.

[Pablo Torre]

Is she, is she beating you presently at life? Like, how competitive are you here? Because Nick Wright has proclaimed both of you to be his rivals on the young sports broadcasters who are conquering the earth. Is Mina beating you right now?

[Sports Analyst 2]

I mean, I think that in the world that Mina has dominated, there is no competition. I'm over. This is my thing with all of this.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

I'm just, I'm just glad to look

[Sports Analyst 2]

up to two older journalists Like Mina and Nick, you know, I've just admired them from afar as I've climbed up through this industry. And as a younger guy, I just look at them and see what they've accomplished, and I can only admire. I can only admire what they've both done. And so as a younger journalist, it really means a lot to be even in the same sentence as them.

[Unidentified Female Co-host]

Dan, I love Nick. He's getting his ass kicked by those two. I mean, it's not even close.

[Tony]

Come on, come on, come on. First off, love Nick Wright. Respect Nick Wright. When you wire 150 grand to the win, you're winning.

[Unidentified Female Co-host]

Yeah, and he did give us money, which was super.

[Tony]

No, no, you're done. You're done. I already got it. No, but next time. Next time, you're getting cut out.

[Greg Cody]

All right, I'll see to that.

[Unidentified Female Co-host]

I'm just making sure we all.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

That there's a Pulitzer.

[Unidentified Female Co-host]

There's all the other shit.

[Tony]

Nick Wright. Don't forget this.

[Pablo Torre]

You say the other. You say the other shit, but the other shit has more cultural value. Oh, it's amazing what Pablo won. Me and Pablo love what Pablo won.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

You guys love what Pablo won.

[Pablo Torre]

But the other stuff in. In a dumber America, the other stuff

[Unidentified Male Participant]

is the stuff that gets more dumb America.

[Tony]

I tried to go to the Big Cheese. I told the guy was a Pulitzer. One who gave flick me off and told me to go F myself.

[Unidentified Female Co-host]

I bet Mina couldn't beat me in pop culture Jeopardy.

[Pablo Torre]

Pablo, let's set that up.

[Sports Analyst 2]

What is.

[Podcast Host / Commentator]

What is Tony doing in his free time exactly? He's going and trying to get a

[Tony]

reservation to Big Cheese. They don't make reservations. I walked in, I said, hey, by the way, Miami guy, we want to pull it.

[Unidentified Male Participant]

Surprise.

[Tony]

I want to pull it. Surprise. The guy said, F off and then told me, then flicked me off. What do you want me to tell you?

[Pablo Torre]

See you later, Pablo. Pablo Torre finds out is the name of the podcast.